britain has called for a european naval mission to protect ships in the gulf following iran's seizure of a british—registered oil tanker. foreign secretaryjeremy hunt condemned the operation by iranian commandos as an act of state piracy. the trump administration is stepping up its crackdown on illegal immigration, announcing plans for fast—track deportations, bypassingjudges. from today, anyone who has been in the us for less than two years can be deported in a matter of hours or days, no matter where they are caught. authorities in hong kong have defended the police after groups of pro—democracy protesters were attacked by gangs of masked men at a train station. 45 people were injured in the attack. there has been widespread speculation that the attackers belonged to triads, also known as the chinese mafia.

now on bbc news, it's hardtalk. zeinab badawi speaks to the icelandic—danish artist olafur eliasson at the tate modern in london. welcome to hardtalk, with me, zeinab badawi, from tate modern in london. where my guest has a major exhibition. he is the award—winning icelandic danish artist olafur eliasson. he believes that artist can change the world by, for instance, attempting to tackle climate change. this is one of his exhibits, a giant wall made of moss, and the idea is to get people thinking differently about the environment. for instance, could our buildings from the future be made from more sustainable materials? is this kind of thinking visionary, or just simply far—fetched ?

this kind of thinking visionary, or just simply far—fetched? olafur eliasson, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. you had a fairly unorthodox ringing. your parents were extremely young when they had you, your mother 20, your father young when they had you, your mother 20, yourfather i9. young when they had you, your mother 20, yourfather 19. born in iceland, moved to denmark. your mother was a seamstress, your father cook. how did your early life influence you, in your work? well, my father moved back to iceland, and i would spend my vacations in iceland, moving around in nature while he was painting. he also worked as an artist, actually. my mother in denmark would make sure i would go to school and you could say that my mother had the more disciplined approach to life where my father

supported my my hellenistic approach. and being in nature, over the summer, and playing around as a child with my father, that really influenced me a lot. but also, to be fair, my mother giving me a sense of purpose, a direction, made a great difference for me. you also took pa rt difference for me. you also took part in sort of early artistic experiments with your father, on a ship. yes, well, as he worked as a cook, as well, on a boat, and obviously i was staying in close contact with him until he passed away some 20 years ago now. we talked about, well, how could we use the ship for the ocean itself as a drawing machine? so we would sort of think of the we would put a bowl with ink on it on a piece of paper, and what we saw was essentially how the ocean was sort of using the ship asa pin, the ocean was sort of using the ship as a pin, reversing everything, so it was in fact a drawing of where my father was. and then he would write down, this is north of norway, at this and this ocean, and so—and—so, the depth is so—and—so, and all of these drawings we would collect and show them to people. and then you went to the royal danish academy of arts, study there, and moved to new

york, but it wasn't until you went back to europe from america when you began to start making art seriously. was that sort of tied up with your identity, that you were a european and you could only work properly when you got back to europe? yes, i was a young artist. i started at school when the berlin wall came down. i was so optimistic. i said why even stay on at school? let me go to new york and get it over with. it was only when i realised actually this is a little harder, may be studying art is not so bad overall. soi studying art is not so bad overall. so i went back and realised, ma being honest with myself, taking the serious, slowing down a bit? and this is sort of when i actually started, as i say, to get more serious. and you are now a world—renowned artist, and particularly famous for your large—scale installations. and here at tate modern in london, there is a retrospective of some of your major works over the last 25 years. one very striking one, the rainbow. what are you trying to tell people there?

0ne are you trying to tell people there? one of the very early works of mine isa one of the very early works of mine is a rainbow. it is called beauty, it is drizzling water on a lamp, and what you see is then the spectral colours. of course, if you move a bit, you see, oh, is it like fire, is ita bit, you see, oh, is it like fire, is it a rainbow? and it is very engaging to look at. and interestingly, the person standing next to you or over there, obviously because a drop of water in a colour is depending on your eye, the person see something else. and it'sjust like it is with rainbows. it'sjust like it is with rainbows. it'sjust like we are having that experience together, and i think it is magnificent. a rainbow is ephemeral, isn't it? i mean, is there a message on that? yes, but the idea which i have a personal, very strong ephemeral, immaterial experience, so do you, standing over there. but it's not the same as standing together. so when i did the work, i was very interested, could we dematerialised the kind of objects? because art is often here is a branch, solid, on a pedestal. i can walk around it, but the artwork is

there. maybe i could suggest if i dematerialised the artwork, it is the relationship. it is the evaluation. am i seeing something? what does seeing actually mean? is this real? and therefore the seeing itself, with you as a spectator, becomes much more interesting, and sort of a co—producer. you become an artist as well, i could argue. there are quitea artist as well, i could argue. there are quite a lot of exhibits you have here. another very striking one is the moss wall. what are you trying to tell viewers there? so i worked a lot with natural phenomena and natural sort of experiences, and how do our senses natural sort of experiences, and how do oui’ senses react natural sort of experiences, and how do our senses react to that is back and back when i did the moss wall, it was sort of before the kind of green vertical gardens, green high—rises, had shown up. and i proposed, well, maybe ecology has an a nswer to proposed, well, maybe ecology has an answer to architects. maybe we should look to nature for a response to how to build buildings. the moss wall is like, why don't we just

build with moss, in this case, why don't we listen to nature in order to come up with solutions to architectural things? and as we can see in the moss well, it looks amazing. are you seriously suggesting people, say, could live ina suggesting people, say, could live in a house that it has got walls made of moss? well, the point is more like is a moss wall, it is more like a proposal to say well, instead of as we know now, a lot of sort of building and materials are not sustainable, right? why don't we seek answers to what — how are we going to live in the future, if not the moss wall? but then the proposal is maybe ecology has things to offer. we just need to find ways to implement them. is a very strong sort of climate team to a lot of your work. i mean, sort of climate team to a lot of yourwork. i mean, in the sort of climate team to a lot of your work. i mean, in the past we've seen how you had the waterfalls at brooklyn bridge in new york. you've got a waterfall exhibit here, also, at tate modern. and then you also in the past had the shock tactic of dying rivers green in cities, something which you've stopped. why

is climate so important to your work? i should also mention ice watch, which of course you had glaziers which you had shipped in from greenland to the uk. why is climate so important to you? i'm old enough to remember when there was the distinction between culture and nature. and now we know that nature isn't something out there. nature has been sort of taken over by humankind, so to speak. there is no outside. there's— everything has cultivated. it is what we call the anthropocene. but for many years i have been interested in moss, in water, in the ephemeral, in the anonymous, it was obviously very easy for me to start thinking about cani easy for me to start thinking about can i use my artworks to make explicit what it is that the scientists are talking about? what is it the politicians are talking about? what is the data report that the un is making for us, the cop? because for economic people, it can

be difficult to think what can i do with this massive data report? what does this have to do with me? so i think one of the things i was interested in is simply making tangible what it is that is going on. so the ice watch project, quite frankly, offers the opportunity to look at the ice from greenland and say oh, this is what they are talking about, this is the ice. and interestingly, it is actually very touching. and you put your hand on it, you go oh, it's really cold. a new kind of know it's ice, it's cold, but still, feeling it on your own hands, as banal as it might sound, it is amazing. and then you just realise, oh, this is actually something right in my era, in front of me. and what does that do, though, 0lafur eliasson? are people aware about climate change? are you saying that you can actually get

people to translate this kind of awareness and thinking into action? i think embodied knowledge has a more likely chance to embody people to decide to change their behaviour, to change the way they do things. i think it is very hard to sort of instigate change if we only relating to data, if it's only this emotional iced information. you need to bring an element of emotional life, saying i have a feeling about it. that is very dangerous to, as we know. but all in all what art can do is it can make things which are seemingly out of touch, somehow, and make it touchable and make it available in a way where people say ok, i understand that. this is somehow relating to me. i get it. but what does it actually, actually do? because you have said that the private sector is all about profitability. the public sector is about populism now, and that's irrational. and thatjust simply leaves the cultural set. you are asking too much of culture, surely, to say that it will change my, lead

to say that it will change my, lead to policies which, you know, to stop greenhouse gas emissions, and all the rest of it. it's too much. no, it's not. i actually don't think so. but of course, i as an artist and just one of many artists. so when i talk i took for me and not all artists. but what i think is interesting, if you look at civil society, where do we find trust, civic trust? what do people actually identify with, and where do people say oh, here is someone who is actually listening to me? so i think the cultural sector is a space where people say oh, i identify with something, with this book, this theatre, this answer. this is how i could move if i could express my feelings. people look at a dance, they say this is me. so unlike politicians, where it's like... 0k, personable, incredibly short term, a lwa ys personable, incredibly short term, always about the immediate. they are a lwa ys always about the immediate. they are always talking down to you. you're not good enough, you are not good good enough. and that's be honest. the private sector is actually doing a lot. it's a bit unfair to say that they are only about profitability, but in the long run, you don't see

the necessary radical change in the private sector, because profitability is pushing against the claimant. so the cultural sector as a system, a civics sort of element, i think, has a unique chance to give a voice where people can identify with it and say this is something we believe in, we push for that. but alone, the cultural sector can't do it, for sure. but i mean, it's interesting, because raising awareness about climate change is one thing, and i'm thinking in particular of an example from australia, when in 2017 then cabinet minister, morrison, stood in parliament brandishing a piece of coal, saying support fossil fuels, coal, saying support fossil fuels, coalin coal, saying support fossil fuels, coal in australia. climate change registers very high in voters' priorities. 2018— 2019 you have the hottest summer on record in australia, but then what happens in elections this year? scott morrison becomes prime minister. so awareness of climate change doesn't necessarily translate into people

voting. i think it is first to say we have a finite pool of worries. we can only worry so much. if people are worrying about brexit, if people are worrying about brexit, if people are worrying about the financial crisis in 2008, we know that their worry pool is full, and people do not think of climate change is being a major thing to worry about. but we arei a major thing to worry about. but we are i think seeing a radical shift. i think the consciousness about the consequences of global warming is getting so common knowledge that we are seeing massive movements. we have civic movements, we have the extension of movements which have been incredibly successful, make the world greater again, and all the amazing things happening. so i honestly do think that we have, we will always have, probably nationalism, xenophobia, they will be popping up here and there. these are the headlines, but the greater trends i think are moving, not fast enough, the governments are not signing up to the 1.5 degrees that

they promised in paris some years ago, but it is moving in the right direction, i feel. you are a member of the social practice movement, a word which describes any art form which involves people and communities in debate, collaboration and social interaction, and you have used your art to engage with refugee communities, as well as, obviously, as we have been discussing, climate change. do you think then that the best art is art which has a purpose? the foremost art purpose is to be art. that's how it is, right? and art. that's how it is, right? and art cannot be put by somebody else's wagon. but if we think about it, art a lwa ys wagon. but if we think about it, art always was about something. it's not like art at some point was not about anything. even highly abstract art, autonomous, avant garde idea, was about the principle of not being, you know, commodified, and to support the notion that we need something abstract in our society, to have a space to dream, and have a space to sort of say, ok, i need a space to sort of say, ok, i need a space in which i canjust dream

space to sort of say, ok, i need a space in which i can just dream for a while, until i can articulate what it is a while, until i can articulate what itisi a while, until i can articulate what it is i want to say. but there is a debate in the art world. beauty was almost unanimously considered the purpose of art yet today beauty has come to be viewed as an aesthetic crime and artists are chastised by critics if they work seems to aim at beauty. we have had the aesthetic movement, art for art ‘s sake. had the aesthetic movement, art for art 's sake. there is nothing wrong with that. yes but 100 years ago it was a reaction to something. it was not an autonomous, disconnected dream. iwas not an autonomous, disconnected dream. i was working for the church, for the industry therefore it moved in that direction. it was never out of context. it was always reflecting the time in which it was made. you cannot can modify an upward without implementing or having some impact

on it but to say that art is better when it is disconnected from the discourse or a debate we should be careful about that because we also do not want to take the basic agency away from the artist and the artwork itself. to have a work of art is essentially to hold hands with the world. you have said in the past, art can mitigate the numbing effect created by the glut of information we are faced with today and motivate people to turn thinking into doing. are you able to measure in any way whether your art has indeed translated thinking into doing?” whether your art has indeed translated thinking into doing? i am so happy i said that that make you did say that, it was a quote. i do fundamentally think so. but we also have to see how do we measure success. normally it is measured in quantifiable days. we need to say

that art is not always quantifiable. sometimes success criteria is not something we can measure. as to art, think of something like a safe space in which we can have difficult conversations. it is a place where you can have conversations you simply cannot have in other places and in that sense there is something about where can i exercise togetherness with somebody i fundamentally disagree with. the parliament should be able to do that but they cannot even do anything without excluding each other. i am com pletely without excluding each other. i am completely certain i want to say peace negotiations but this notion of sharing without having to agree is something that culture and art is capable quite unique ways. as part of your thinking, i should mention in 2012 you put forward a proposal,

ta ke in 2012 you put forward a proposal, take a deep breath, to celebrate the london live x and that idea did not ta ke london live x and that idea did not take off. be consisted of people inhaling and exhaling and it did not get a good reception in the british press. the times described it as hilarious. are you hurt my rejection? i think it happens quite often. so if you keep pushing things, you will get rejections. it does not mean i stopped it. it was to co nte m pt does not mean i stopped it. it was to contempt if for london at the time. maybe in the future they will be in the body. you register it on a website in a kind of a bubble. woke about like that is and you negotiate it. it did not find its final shape as we moved on to

something else. i work a lot outside the museum and public spaces. i need to face the fact that i get a lot of rejection as well. talking about the role of art in society, there has i was been a lot of collaboration between art and is a world of design and technology when it comes to science, do you think of the connection between art and science. albert ironstone says art and science are branches from the same tree. george brock said art is meant to disturb and science to reassure. how do you see the role of art and science? in my artistic practice i actually use a lot of social science andi actually use a lot of social science and i learned a lot from science. at the end of the day, you could break it up as signs is more about how and

art is often about why. why are we doing all of this? science is breaking it down and saying how are we doing it. both are models of the world, to some extent, that have impact on the world and understand the world so they have things in common but we should not make them overla p com pletely. common but we should not make them overlap completely. you are very much an activist, not only an art activist, part of the social practice movement, you actually want to help in very tangible ways. you have close connections to africa through ethiopian. you have adopted two children from ethiopian and you are very keen on bringing power through solar energy for people who do not have access to power in any way and you set up this not—for—profit project called little son. let me show it to you. actually

it isn't because art and science and what can... this is a rechargeable battery. i can turn it on and there is music and during the day i can harvest the energy and i can use the energy to replace petroleum and maybe stop chopping down the trees. at night i have more cleaner sustainable light when i want to do my homework, when i want to keep my kiosk open a little bit longer. light as it is in my work as well, is about empowering yourself, reflecting on your life. on one side it isa reflecting on your life. on one side it is a functional thing. we simply do need light but it is also an emotional thing stop it is also about livelihood. power is about empowerment. if i can illuminate

myself and my home, i have a life stop i could take charge of my life. it is an uphill struggle to get people to embrace solar energy and other forms of renewable energy. there has to be, i believe, there are other people doing similar work like a house in rural areas, the thing is, that has to be an economic upside to it also. it has to be cheaper than the petroleum. 0nce upside to it also. it has to be cheaper than the petroleum. once you have it, the investment, it might be the first step but want you use it, you're not buying petroleum for the next three or four years. we look across the political landscape in europe, how the greens performed very well into the recent european parliament elections, we had the extinction rebellion protests in the uk. do you think it is issue —based politics and is going to be the politics and is going to be the politics we see more of? there are

no massive legislative changes and get stop no opening of the system that are creating the problems. i am curious to see if this might push the politicians. you would like to think the politicians might go first but now it does not seem to be happening. people we see around the world may need to take the lead than elected politicians. there was a party who did not have a green aspect to it and the electorate did not support them anymore. some say it is down to climate falls. you have described yourself, i am happy to be called a climate full. the management of yesterday other visionaries of tomorrow, who said

that again? but the thing is here, probably we need a slightly more robust change than we would like to acknowledge the situation is. foolishness, obstructionist, is honourable and is much as we... we are trying to reorganise whatever i can do both in my art, as a person, in my studio, the thing is, we are facing situations where we suddenly now have 11 years, 1.5 degrees, it is not adding up. here you are with this big celebration of your work at tate modern. what can we expect from 0lafur eliasson end of the future? what is happening now, the way we set and talk here, instead of being guided by the past we are probably now ina

guided by the past we are probably now in a situation where we have to be guided by the future. we have to reconsider the way we do things by having a future imaginary which is going to be positive and hopeful and say this is where we're to go. you're going to pull it together. thank you for being on hardtalk. thank you for being on hardtalk. thank you for being on hardtalk. thank you so much. the heatwave is upon us, at least across a large chunk of the country, particularly central and eastern parts of england. and tuesday really could become quite oppressive as temperatures hit the mid—30s in some areas. now, if we look at the satellite image you can see this huge clear area across europe. this is where the heat will be building over the next two

or three days. and, as you might expect, the heat‘s coming in from the south, from algeria, from morocco, spreading across spain, into france, and temperature records could tumble. now, the july record, july for the uk, is 36.7, set in 2015. we may be approaching those values come thursday. in the short term, the weather's fairly quiet out there. some rain in the north—west of scotland. some clouds in western and southern areas. but very warm in the morning. 17 degrees there in cardiff, 16 the lowlands of scotland. and once some of that low cloud in the west and the south clears away it's pretty much unbroken sunshine all through the day. strong sunshine beating down on us and raising those temperatures, too. we think around about 3k degrees in london, 30 across northern parts of england. but much fresher there in belfast, no heatwave, 22 celsius. and then on tuesday night we've thunderstorms on the way. probably quite widespread. some big downpours with frequent thunder and lightning. and this is what it looks

like from late tuesday into the early hours of wednesday, spreading widely across the uk. behind it leaving a legacy of cloud. so that means that wednesday may start off a little cloudy in some areas. and some of that cloud may linger through the day. so in one or two areas temperatures may be a degree or so lower. you won't probably notice much much of a difference. but 33, 3a, maybe 35 in one or two spots is possible. 0ut towards the west, more likely mid or the high 20s. and then on thursday that heat does spread across europe. it'll be peaking in france and the uk, benelux, and starting to reach scandinavia as well. and this jet stream propels that northwards as well. so in london we could hit 36 degrees in central london on thursday. high 20s to 30 degrees across northern parts of england. and it's just possible somewhere in the south—east, not necessarily in london, we might hit 37 celsius.

but it all depends whether there will be any showers around or the cloud amounts. i'm sure most of us agree that's a little too hot. that's it. bye— bye.

this is the briefing. i'm sally bundock. we are live from westminster with this special edition of the programme, as the uk conservative party leadership contest reaches its climax. within hours we'll know whether borisjohnson will be britain's next prime minister orjeremy hunt has pulled off a major upset and gets the keys to number10. dozens are injured as massive wildfires sweep through central portugal. more than 1,000 firefighters and the army are still battling the blaze. can spain's accidental prime minister keep hisjob?