hello, it's friday, it's 10 o'clock, i'm joanna gosling. in our exclusive film today, campaigners are calling on the nhs to do more to help patients who are trying to get medical cannabis on prescription. there is a cannabis revolution needs to be learned about science under so far it has been led by politics. what people forget is that for many patients, including my sister, this isa patients, including my sister, this is a life and death situation. they says nhs prescriptions are impossible to get — forcing those who need it to go private, at a cost of hundreds of pounds every month. the sunbed association is threatening legal action over calls by cancer charity melanoma uk for sunbeds to be banned because of their links to the disease. they're both here in the studio —

along with (show anthea smith, who lost an ear to melanoma, and puts it down to decades of using sunbeds. and we'll talk to pupils from the east london state school where 100 students got straight a's in their a—levels, and more than a0 of them are heading to oxford and cambridge. even stormzy has been tweeting about their success. hello, welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning. do you use sunbeds? if so, are you worried about the risks? or do you think it's no worse than sitting out in the sun and, if you use them sensibly, you're safe? do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about — use the hashtag victoria live. if you text, you'll be charged at the standard network rate. first, rachel schofield has the news. good morning. in the last hour, turkey's military

pension fund has reached a tentative deal to take over british steel. the turkish armed forces assistance fund, known as 0yak, said it planned to take control of british steel by the end of the year. the official receiver for the british company has confirmed that talks for a deal are under way. british steel was put into compulsory liquidation in may. it owns the scunthorpe steel works where 3,000 people work and it employs another 800 in the north—east of england. seven teenagers — including one who is m — are being questioned after a man was stabbed to death with a screwdriver in newcastle. police say the attack on 52—year—old peter duncan appears to have happened following a chance encounter. his family have described him as a devoted father. patients who are trying to get medical cannabis prescriptions are calling on the nhs to do more to help them. campaigners say that since legalisation last year there have been no new nhs prescriptions made available. private clinics are offering

patients prescriptions but many say the costs are prohibitively expensive. labour mp ben bradshaw says the government must do more to help. i think the uk government is failing patients. the government was wrong to raise expectations. it now has to put that right by delivering on the promises that it has made to the patients. and we'll have an exclusive report on thisjust after this news summary. the national grid has until the end of the day to send a report on last week's major power outage to the energy regulator, 0fgem. it's expected to give more information about what caused the power cut, which left millions without electricity, but it's unlikely to offer much insight into why critical infrastructure was so badly affected. north korea has test—fired two more missiles off its eastern coast, shortly after saying it would never again sit down for talks with south korea. the north has been angered by a speech by the south korean president calling for the unification of the two countries, as well as its neighbour's military

exercises with america. north korea described the idea of peace talks at this time as "delusional". a civil rights group is warning the use of facial recognition systems in public places across the uk has reached epidemic levels. big brother watch says the technology, which can scan people's faces in crowds, comparing them with databases of criminals, is a threat to privacy. the government's data watchdog is investigating cameras installed at king's cross station in london. 50 years after a young david bowie performed from a south london bandstand in front of a tiny crowd, the historic iron structure that he used as his stage has been given special listed status. known to fans as the "bowie bandstand", it was the centrepiece of the growth summer festival, which david bowie and his friends organised on 16 august 1969 in beckenham.

that is all from me. back tojoanna. in today's exclusive film, campaign groups are calling on the nhs to do more to help patients who are trying to get medical cannabis. they claim that since legalisation last year, there have been no new nhs prescriptions for medical cannabis containing the two main components of the cannabis plant — cbd and thc. in the meantime, private cannabis clinics are opening in the uk, and the private sector is offering patients what they can't get on the nhs. but the costs can run to hundreds of a pounds a month. here's sofia bettiza's report. this is medical cannabis. it's been legal in the uk for almost a year. i really can't imagine my life without cannabis. but there's a problem. nothing's happened, nothing's changed. people are not getting it on the nhs. and, as a result, private clinics are opening up. we can be a lifeline for patients in need.

but this comes at a cost. it's outrageous and cruel that patients are having to spend so much of their own money. so why did the government legalise medical cannabis if the nhs isn't prescribing it? and are private cannabis clinics the only option for patients? medical cannabis was made legal in november 2018. many with conditions like epilepsy, chronic pain and ms got their hopes up. today's announcement is so special. they thought this would open up the treatment options but that hasn't happened. and, in this vacuum, the private sector has seen a gap in the market. i'm on my way to a private cannabis clinic that's about to open in london. it looks like patients with chronic conditions are resorting to places like this because they say it's impossible to get a prescription on the nhs.

patients who come to this clinic need to be approved by a specialist doctor before they can get a prescription. there are some conditions for which i think there's good evidence for cannabis to be useful. so you'd have to have one of those conditions. like pain, for example, or anxiety or nausea and sickness in the context of chemotherapy or epilepsy. the problem? it's very expensive. the consultation fee to the patient is a fairly standard amount of £250. then on top of that, when they receive the prescription from the chemist, they'll have to buy something like £600 to £800 per month for the prescription. most people can never afford this. do you think you're exploiting patients? no, absolutely we're not exploiting patients at all. i mean, this is the only way patients who are in significant need can get access to this medicine, and that's very sad. it's the only way they can get the medicine they deserve. but it's people like these who suffer. charlotte has brain

damage and epilepsy. her mother, cheryl, has been trying to get cannabis on the nhs but was refused twice. she was told it was because she hadn't tried all options available and it was too expensive for the nhs to prescribe it. i think it's absolutely disgusting that anyone is having to pay to go private and get a private prescription. the thought of having to pay that on a regular basis, on a monthly basis to fulfil it... would you be able to afford it? i wouldn't be able to afford to sustain a private prescription on a long—term basis at all, no. i mean, i'm a single mother looking after my daughter. i do work, i don't receive any benefits myself. and the problem is not lack of supply. about three quarters of all medical cannabis that's imported into the uk comes into this facility. they sort it, package it and deliver it to patients and pharmacists across the country.

it sounds straightforward but it isn't. the medicine has to go through a lot of rigorous checks and it takes about eight weeks to obtain it after it's prescribed. they only import the exact amount they need to fulfil their prescriptions and that's what makes it so expensive. and how much would this be? well, so something like that is in the region of £500ish. £500 for this? and it only last for one month? the plant is grown in a controlled environment to ensure it has specific levels of chemicals to treat health conditions. how many prescription requests have you got since cannabis was made legal last year? we've received approximately 100 prescriptions so far. all of them have come from the private sector. i think it's fair to say that the nhs hasn't prescribed

any cannabis to date. the two most important chemicals in the cannabis plants are thc and cbd. thc is the part of the cannabis plant that makes people feel high, whereas cbd doesn't have the mind—altering effects that cause that high. but campaign groups say limiting medicine to products that contain only cbd isn't enough. they want access to a wider variety of cannabis—based medicines, some of which contain thc. like chelsea — she treats her epilepsy with cannabis. her vape contains thc and cbd. she says she hasn't had a single seizure since she started using it. it has completely changed my life. i really can't imagine my life without cannabis.

i really. . .feel so grateful that i found this medicine. you know, i've seen cannabis transform people's lives. the only reason chelsea can get cannabis is that she lives in new york and she's brought her medicine with her... ..while her sister, tamsin, who has a much more severe form of epilepsy, can't get a prescription on the nhs because she lives in the uk. so what would tamsin‘s life have been like if she'd been given cannabis as a baby? maybe she wouldn't be living in full—time care now. you know, maybe her mental age wouldn't be of a 13—year—old. it shouldn't be about where you're located, you know? and that's what we're seeing with my sister and i, where i live in the us and i have access because of my address and she doesn't because of her address. so why did the government decides to make medical cannabis legal if the nhs isn't prescribing it? i don't think the government had done its homework, if i'm perfectly honest.

the government raised people's expectations that, following legalisation, medicinal cannabis will become readily available. it hasn't. if anything, it's become more difficult for people to obtain it. is the uk government failing patients? i think the uk government is failing patients. the government was wrong to raise expectations. it now has to put that right by delivering on the promises that it's made to the patients. this cannabis revolution needs to be led by science and, so far, it's been led by politics and i think what people forget is that, for many patients, including my sister, this is a life—or—death situation. the department of health told us that this pattern of prescribing medical cannabis is quite normal and that, in most countries that have legalised the drug, most prescriptions are given through the private sector. they also said they need more evidence to prove that it works. campaigners were recently dealt

a further blow after a health care watchdog said that a lot of medical cannabis products shouldn't be available on the nhs because they're not cost effective and more clinical trials are needed. sadly, at the present time, the only way a patient can get a prescription for medical cannabis is through this clinic. for now, people say they will be left suffering, in need of medicine that they can't afford. last week, nice published its draft recommendations on the use of cannabis—based medicinal products which found a lack of evidence about their long—term safety and effectiveness. however, it's now open for public consultation. we are joined by the man who is responsible for nice‘s guideline programme, paul chrisp. also in the studio we have hannah deacon. her son alfie has severe epilepsy and last year was issued the first

medical cannabis license in the uk. and speaking to us from brighton is clark french. he has ms and openly admits that he breaks the law to obtain medical cannabis which he cannot get on the nhs. welcome all of you. hannah, i will come to you first of all because the issueis come to you first of all because the issue is cannabis was legalised for medical use last year and people are still not getting it on the nhs. your son alfie is one of only two nhs prescriptions in england. it is complicated but tell us for you and a healthy weight is important he gets it, and what difference it has made? well, to put into context briefly, he went from 48 hospital admissions in one year before we went to holland, to hardly any since went to holland, to hardly any since we have been home. it's about quality of life. we are not talking about a cure. we are talking about giving a little boy the best quality

of life. if you look at the chief medical officer's report, issued lastjuly, she said in that there is conclusive evidence throughout the world that cannabis —based medicine should be available. then the acm day also said doctors should be able to prescribe cannabis —based medicine. then the home secretary said, when he changed the law, that he was doing it to help people like my child. then unfortunately, when the law has changed, we have seen the law has changed, we have seen the brakes go on completely. i work with 20 families. they are all now seeking private prescriptions costing thousands of pounds a month. they wouldn't be doing that if it wasn't working. when they are going to their doctors, their doctors are saying to them, i cannot prescribe for you because of the guidelines. i am not allowed to. these families are being put in dire straits. it is fantastic that the nhs review talks about observational trials. but we can't wait six months. these children need help today. there is

talk about shared care arrangements. why can't the private neurologists that prescribed to these children, share the care with the nhs doctors? we wa nt share the care with the nhs doctors? we want to see practical, quick, urgent ways of helping these people and it's not happening. yes, we need research, yes, we need to understand. but we also need not to put our heads in the sand. israel have been doing research into cannabis for 25 years. we know about the entourage effect. why has that panel not talk to their colleagues around the world ? panel not talk to their colleagues around the world? it seems extremely arrogant and patients will suffer and end up going to the black market. when you have a serious illness, it should not be happening. paul, the systems are really complicated to try to get something funnelled through the nhs in the end. but it boils down to a simple principle, doesn't it, those who use it so it works, those who cannot get it so it works, those who cannot get it on the nhs, except for alfie and another child, are paying a huge

amount of money because it works? there is evidence, so why is it, what is the block? why does nice say there is still not enough evidence? 0k, there is still not enough evidence? ok, the question we were asked was, what is the clinical cost effectiveness of cannabis —based products for a range of conditions, one of which was epilepsy. the committee will work with, we worked “ we committee will work with, we worked —— we looked that international evidence, we scoured literature for evidence. and our committee felt that there wasn't enough evidence to really fully assess the safety and effectiveness of cannabis —based medicines for epilepsy. sorry to interrupt but what about alfie? he was having so many hospital admissions and now he is not? yeah, we recognise that. we recognise that people do benefit, absolutely. we are not saying it shouldn't be used. that is not what we are saying. we say there needs to be more research. these medicines are not licensed,

which means they haven't gone through the regulatory process to see whether they are safe or effective or what quality they have produced, the dosage or when they should be started or stopped. there isa should be started or stopped. there is a regulatory framework for medicines in this country, designed to keep people safe. you are effectively running into bureaucracy as well and there is only so much you can do? that is not what i am saying. we were asked to look at the evidence. we expected not to find much because no product is licensed. indeed that is what we did find. but we do know, and experiences like hannah's, people benefit. what that would do it would stop the further research we desperately need and it would also prevent other people access to these medicines if it was right for them after they had exhausted every other licensed medicine. so the door is then open

for the research to be done and prescriptions to be available on the nhs. how long would this process take? the law was changed last november. sure. again, nhs england is saying, we can support controlled trials. that is the gold standard. that is what you need to get a regulatory approval. what we also recognise is observational data. let's learn from the experiences of people already receiving cannabis —based medicines. what does that tell us about the effects? what does that tell us about their safety? until we have that, clinicians don't have the confidence... one last thing with paul, was the government com pletely thing with paul, was the government completely wrong to legalise something that is not licensed for use? it raises expectations and it sounds like there is no way the nhs is going to fund it while it is not licensed? no, i don't think the garment was wrong to do that. i

think, like in any clinical situation, there are unlicensed medicines available. the way the doctors prescribe is they work through licensed medicines. for some people, licensed medicines don't work. that is where people need to talk to specialist and say, we tried everything, nothing works for us, we are aware of this unlicensed medicine, can we have a conversation? we know there may be uncertainties about the evidence. that deregulation, that that rescheduling, did allow that access. 0k. rescheduling, did allow that access. ok. i'm afraid what you are saying is what should happen, but it is not what is happening. what do you suggest that the families i work with, who have private prescriptions, what do you suggest they do now? because they cannot afford £2000 a month on going. they can't do it. they have evidence that children are better. they are going to doctors in the nhs and they are

saying, my child is better, and the doctor is saying, it is fantastic your child is not coming to hospital any more, but i can't prescribe to you, my medical director says i can't, my trust says i can't. while you are saying that conversation should be happening and doctors should be happening and doctors should have the right to prescribe, it is simply not happening. it is not the truth. i speak to these pa rents not the truth. i speak to these parents every day. and i'm sorry to get upset, but they are a fundraising thousands of pounds a month to try and keep their children out of hospital, to try and keep their children alive. and the government have failed those people over and over again. and i am absolutely disgusted, to be quite honest, because those parents, they have no services, they have no help, they have no money. and they are being asked... they are making their children better. my son has been on medical cannabis for nearly two yea rs. medical cannabis for nearly two years. no one has collected data on him. no one. we are doing a lot of talking. there is no action. and people are being failed. the public

are being failed. and we must, as a good society, surely, for god sake help these patients quickly? respond to that. hannah, i do understand your frustration. it is not frustration. it is upset. i have experienced what these families are going through and it is horrendous. if matt hancock stopped talking about what he should do and what you should do and actually there was some action that might is beyond frustration. it is fear that my child or these children will die. it is not frustration. unfortunately, with your panel, i know you had one pa rent with your panel, i know you had one parent on there, but you did not talk to these patients. you should have talked to the ms society. you didn't talk to the patients. that is why we have consultation. why not do that before the guidance comes out? that would be sensible to do upfront? we always have low members

on our upfront? we always have low members on our committees and we open up our d raft on our committees and we open up our draft guidelines to consultation. cani draft guidelines to consultation. can i go back to your question about what we can do about it, hannah? just to finish on this, because it does sound like you delivered guidance without really properly consulting people. i disagree. guidance without really properly consulting people. idisagree. iwas —— i asked to be on the panel but i was told i shouldn't do media for a whole year and told not to say what i think about cannabis. we see finbar 0'callaghan, who sat on that panel, coming out with his concerns about cannabis. why is the same not being afforded to him? i was told i would have a place on that panel if i was quiet and i was not going to be quiet. the way we organise our committees is, until our guidance is out, we always asked for that confidentiality. and we do have the consultation period, which we are in now, which is where we will listen. people can give us their comment a

few. we have until the end of august to do that. just going back to the point about what we can do is a system, that is a fair point. it is complex. it involves many players across the system. our parties to look at the clinical and cost effectiveness of these products, which we have done. we have gone with recommendations that we are consulting on at the moment. there are other players in the system. the regulator for medicines. are other players in the system. the regulatorfor medicines. is are other players in the system. the regulator for medicines. is there a real prospect at the end of this consultation that suddenly people might be able to get cannabis on the nhs? i can't say that because i don't know what consultation, thes we are going to get. is it a possibility that things could turn around that much, could they? again, i don't want to be drawn on that. we don't know what comments we are going to get. we have looked at the evidence. with epilepsy, we were unable to find the quality of evidence that allowed us to say, we

are going to make a recommendation. why did the chief medical officer side lastjuly there was conclusive evidence? why? her background is in research. it doesn't make sense. and it is not fair. was that when you are thinking about it? we need to help people. that is a strong voice, isn't it? indeed. when we look at the evidence base, we asked for the guideline should cover? we consulted on the scope. then we look at the evidence base. and we found close to 19,000 studies which we then limit back down. in epilepsy we found four of sufficient quality because there is not enough license information. we need to bring in clark french because he has been waiting patiently. you buy cannabis yourself. you get hold of it. illegally, you freely admit because

you can't get it on the nhs. why are you can't get it on the nhs. why are you prepared to break the law to get it? i think this is a problem that many patients face. it's notjust me. they are actually millions of people in this position where we face the choice, what do we do? do we break the law to access this medicine that improves our quality of life, or do we follow the law and not get the quality of life that everybody deserves? we are not talking about rocket science. we are talking about rocket science. we are talking about rocket science. we are talking about a plant. it has been used for thousands of years. yes, the reason why it doesn't have the clinical evidence that is needed is because it has been in schedule one. it has not been able to be researched because of that. nice need to take that into account with what they are doing. the government really need to make sure that they are not failing patients because currently a handful of people are able to get it, and everyone else still faces prosecution. everyone else still worries about having their door kicked in, having their

children taken away from them. this is waron children taken away from them. this is war on people. the war against drugs. this is what is happening. people are having their houses raided, people are having their medicine taken. 0r raided, people are having their medicine taken. or they are not having it and they are deteriorating and getting ill. that is the choice that currently everybody is in and it's not right. unless you have got £800 a month to spend on private prescription, which currently we don't, but maybe the people in government and their friends all do, it's not fair. it's not for the people. it's not for everybody. there is a two tier system right now where people who have the money to pay for a private prescription and go and get that prescription and fulfil it and not be a criminal any more. the rest of us, you can be a criminal, face prosecution, you can have all your life, you know, destroyed by this stupid law. it's not right, it's not fair. as hannah rightly said, we need this change urgently. clark, thank you. we have

got a statement from the department of health and social care are saying, we sympathise with those dealing so courageously with challenging conditions and the government has changed the law so specialist doctors can prescribe cannabis —based medicinal products where there is clinical evidence of benefit. we have asked the national institute of health and care excellence to develop additional clinical guidelines and we are working with the health education england to provide additional training. the decision to prescribe unlicensed cannabis —based products for medicinal use is a clinical decision made with patients and theirfamilies, decision made with patients and their families, taking into decision made with patients and theirfamilies, taking into account clinical guidance. we have got four weeks more for your, for you to come up weeks more for your, for you to come up with the finalised report, is that right? well, it is partly... just one last point. even if we had found good evidence in epilepsy, if we talk about that for a moment,

these are unlicensed medicines, so clinicians would still have to step through licensed medicines first and then work through. it is an important point to make. as parents we are not saying that we wanted on top. we are saying we want a sensible conclusion. lastly, i would just like to say, the uk is the biggest supporter —— exporter of medical cannabis to the world. why is our government not allowing its people to have access to a product it is making a lot of money from? there is a question for you. it makes me very angry. someone on twitter says they were in 448 ta blets, twitter says they were in 448 tablets, locked in their house and bedbound with pain. this year i started using marijuana, got straight a's in uni, i started cycling, down to 30 pills a month. another says, i had pain that wasn't responsive to conventional medicine. asiam

responsive to conventional medicine. as i am disabled, there is no way i can as i am disabled, there is no way i ca n afford as i am disabled, there is no way i can afford it. it is unfair that i lived elsewhere it would not be an issue. it is cruel. an anonymous text, medical marijuana has been legal in canada for more than 20 yea rs. legal in canada for more than 20 years. why not look there for proof? it is crazy. there is overwhelming evidence medicinal cannabis is effective for several severe afflictions and the only reason it is illegal is money. it is one of nature's on the plans. thank you very much for your time. we will catch you again when the next period is done. thank you. still to come. should sunbeds be banned? doctors and leading health groups say they increase your risk of skin cancer, but the group that represents tanning salons is threatening legal action against what they say are "misleading statements". we'll have both sides of the debate. and stormzy has tweeted his praise for students at the east london school where 100 pupils got straight as in their a levels! we'll hearfrom some of the students there.

seven teenagers, one as young as 14, are being questioned over the death of a man who was stabbed to death with a screwdriver in newcastle. police say the attack on 52—year—old lawyer peter duncan appears to have happened following a chance encounter. 0ur reporter sam thomson has more from newcastle. sam, what do we know about the case so far? this is an alleged attack which has rocked the city of newcastle. for two reasons, really. firstly, newcastle city centre, particularly, is considered relatively speaking to be quite a safe place to be. second of all, the manner of this alleged attack. it was broad daylight, right in the middle of the city centre. it happened at eldon square, which anybody who knows newcastle will know, a big shopping centre, at about 6:20pm on wednesday as people we re about 6:20pm on wednesday as people were going to the shops or making their way home from work. it is believed that 52—year—old solicitor

peter duncan was one of the people who were making their way home from work. police have described what happened only as a coming together, which resulted in peter receiving a single puncture wound to his chest, believed to have been the result of a screwdriver being driven into him. yesterday, his family paid tribute to him, describing him as a kind and caring man who was always first to help others. he was a devoted father, husband, son, brother, uncle and friend, loved by all that knew him. on social media, there's been a huge outpouring as well, as is so often the case. lots of people saying they had worked with peter or new him down the years and only had nice things to say. but as i mentioned, this has really shocked the wider community of newcastle as well. i was making my way to the scene for the police press conference yesterday and on my way there, i overheard five or six different conversations about what is alleged to have happened. what we

do know for sure is that seven people, all under the age of 18, aged between 14 and 17 years old, are under arrest on suspicion of peter's murder. we are expecting an update from northumbria police later today. thank you forjoining us. the sunbed association is threatening legal action over what it calls misleading statements by a cancer charity. melanoma uk us calling for sunbeds to be banned in the uk, due to their links with the disease. but the sunbed association says the evidence is flawed. we can speak now to gary lipman, chairman of the sunbed association. and gillian nuttall, ceo of melanoma uk. and anthea smith, who lost an ear to melanoma, and puts it down to decades of using sunbeds. thank you forjoining us. and the air, asi thank you forjoining us. and the air, as i say, you lost your ear because of skin cancer, which you put down to the use of sunbeds. i know that you are prepared to show it because you want to raise

awareness of the impact on you, so if you wouldn't mind... this is what it looks like the. tell us what you lost. initially there was a small lesion on the top of my ear, that my gp discarded, saying it was a wart. it had been in place forfive years. it had been in place forfive years. it spread and covered the whole of my year and it spread and covered the whole of my yearandi it spread and covered the whole of my year and i was referred to a dermatologist and plastic surgeons, who straightaway asked if i had used sunbeds and what my history was. who straightaway asked if i had used sunbeds and what my history wasm took five years? like i say, my gp was very lackadaisical, she said it was very lackadaisical, she said it was just a wart and therefore, nothing to worry about, although it was spreading and bleeding. i had no reason to doubt the gp at the time. initially, my first surgery was to amputate the ear and the whole tragus, which left just amputate the ear and the whole tragus, which leftjust a hole and i still had hearing, albeit some balance issues. but the pathology results from that showed it had spread and i had metastasis... what

is that? where the cancer cells had spread, melanoma is like a dandelion, dandelion seed, you may see it in situ, but there could be cells across your whole body, there no rhyme or reason, it is very sneaky and aggressive. i was then referred to aintree hospital, where i had the whole of my inner ear, middle air, saliva glands, temporal bones, there's a lot of my scale missing, all of my lymph—node notes removed, so i am now permanently deaf on the left side, and i have no sense of taste, and very poor balance. i can't feel anything on the left side of my head and neck. that was followed up by 32 sessions of radiotherapy, so i was clipped into a mask at clutter bridge. it will stage three c melanoma, so it is terminal. i have no idea how long i've got to live. every one of the eight consultants i am and i have all concretely said it is due to sunbed you. why are they so convinced? due to all of the data

and the statistics. but were you sunbathing a lot as well? tell us about when you're sunbed you started on how much you are using them? around the age of 14, i am a qualified hairdresser and beauty therapist although i don't work in that trade now. i did work experience at a hairdressers which had a sunbed. it was an unpaid experience so the manager said i could use the sunbed, it was great and it is extremely addictive. i liked having a tan. it felt good. i felt like i looked better. i went to college, like i say, qualified as a hairdresser and beauty therapist, managed salons, owned my own salon. i was the first salon in the area to have a stand—up sunbed. no dangers we re ever have a stand—up sunbed. no dangers were ever known, kind of, it was promoted as a healthy glow. so i would go on maybe once or twice a week. the only time i did not use them was when i was pregnant with my sons. i stopped using probably about three months prior to my diagnosis. when you say they were absolutely

sure it was sunbeds, did they ask you quickly whether you had used them? at every consultation, i was asked and i remember at the time being a bit confused and saying, "i can't have cancer because it is not showing in my bloods", and they said that skin cancer and melanoma would not showing blood results. but they we re not showing blood results. but they were saying that was evidence to prove that sunbed use before the age of 18, but even before the age of 35, is a link, and it wasjust before i was 40 when i was diagnosed. same melanoma uk think sunbed should be banned in this country. yes. we take our lead from australia, the australian government has a ready band sunbeds in their country. we have real issues with them because the world health organization glasses them as a carcinogenic, nhs england will give you warnings on their website to say don't use them. every huge

organisation connected with health will say they are not good for you and yes, we have had patients over the years who have said that they wish they had never used them, and asked us to fight for a ban like they have in australia which is why we are doing what we are doing. you are threatening legal action over the call for a ban, why? oh, my word, the last thing we want to do is have any legal action, but we have been trying to engage with melanoma uk for five years. we have been trying to engage with melanoma uk forfive years. we have been asking them, and i ask anybody, if somebody is saying something that is consistently wrong, if somebody is consistently wrong, if somebody is saying something that is hurtful, either professionally or personally, what. .. either professionally or personally, what... calling for a ban... what causes left quiz might that is not slander. we have no problem with the campaign but with some of the fact they are using in a campaign which are they are using in a campaign which a re clearly they are using in a campaign which are clearly untrue. which are the ones you have issue with? a lot of them are coming out of organisations like the who, the british medical

journal, there have been banned in other countries that have obviously basedit other countries that have obviously based it on evidence. so what evidence do you take issue with? ok, the predicate of a sunbed is a cause of melanoma is clinically untrue. why? because the research that they are using has been proved to be flawed. ten years ago, a data set was created which has subsequently been shown as flawed. in fact, what it showed is that medical devices used in hospitals have a far higher risk and when sunbeds, professional sunbeds alone are tested, there is no link. why do you think doctors asked anthea sooner she was diagnosed with skin cancer when she had you sunbeds? because it is not about the sunbed, it is about uv in general, we have got to stop people from over exposing. it is overexposure, overuse that is dangerous. i am very sorry about the story i heard this morning, but by

anthea's own admission, she was using sunbeds at home from the age of 14. i represent the sunbed association which is a group of people who run salons throughout the uk. it was not at home, it was in a salon. initially they were hired at home, they did not make that today, i'm glad you've done your research, but people can still hire them at home, and people can go into a salon, they are regulated, but no ideas ever checked or your age. encouraging... encourage people to go to encouraging... encourage people to gotoa encouraging... encourage people to go to a salon which is a member of our association where you can be assured that the people in there are properly trained and they sign up to a code of practice. when somebody goes into a salon that is run by a memberof our goes into a salon that is run by a member of our association, we assess the people if their skin type is appropriate. what skin type is appropriate. what skin type is appropriate to use a sunbed? anyone that can... that hands without burning, so somebody with very sensitive skin, we call it skin type one. would you be able to see

somebody with sensitive skin? absolutely, all of our salon members are trained, the staff are trained to recognise it. if somebody comes in with very sensitive skin, we must be aware that there are some groups that cannot tan. if i was prevented today for you is a sunbed, not that i would, there's not a cat in hell's chance, but if i presented today with my ear covered and did not disclose because i don't have sensitive skin, one of your salons would allow me to use that sunbed. but there is absolutely no... what would they check? there is no link that says to you what was up and was caused by the sunbed. would one of your salons happily allow me to use your salons happily allow me to use your sunbed? know because it is clear you have a history. if there is no link, now i've got to melanoma, how would going on a sunbed change that if there is no risk? but he would be triage. my point is, you would be asked a series of question. ok. once your medical history comes out, we would say don't do it any more. but there

is no risk so why would i be stopped? roddy said there is no risk but there is no lick between melanoma and sunbeds but if she goes into one of your sunbed salons, and they say, "oh, you've had melanoma, you can't use it", but you have said there's not a lick. you know that uv is cumulative. the chronic overuse that we are hearing has to be stopped. it is not tanning per se thatis stopped. it is not tanning per se that is dangerous, it is burning. so are there restrictions on around how much someone can use sunbed? absolutely come under our code of practice, and it is a general statement throughout the industry, we recommend that people should not use a sunbed more than 60 sessions per year. an average session is about ten minutes. add that up, that is about ten hours per year. compare that with what happens on a beach in the mediterranean. people are sunbathing for ten hours per day, not per year. ijust sunbathing for ten hours per day, not per year. i just want to go through some of the evidence, because i mentioned the organisations that are concerned and

countries that have instigated bands. the who says regular use of sunbeds significantly increases your chances of skin cancer if you are fair skinned. you have ready touched on that. it also says the exposed skin area in sunbed tanning is at least twice as large as the average sunbather‘s. the nhs says many uk sunbeds give out greater doses of uv rays than the midday mediterranean sun stop the nhs says using a sunbed to get a tan is not than tanning in the sun and the nhs says the simpsons of uv skin damage can take up simpsons of uv skin damage can take up to 20 years to appear. —— are the symptoms of uv skin damage. there is a lot of evidence, in this country, you can't use a sunbed unless you are over 18, so it is adults taking their own decisions. but i mean, ultimately, you do agree that there isa ultimately, you do agree that there is a risk through overuse. you are talking about responsible use. you wa nt to talking about responsible use. you want to ban, you don't want to ban but in fighting against a bank you are threatening them with legal action, is that the way to have a

conversation like this —— fighting against a ban. why does it take five years of saying we would like to have a conversation, no matter how complexity issues are, there is no reason why we can't have a collegiate discussion. we have been asking for that. i asked you directly, why haven't you met with us directly, why haven't you met with us for five years? what are you so afraid of? why won't you meet us? i'm not afraid of anything you have to say, ijust don't like you as a person. let's not get person. i don't like what your organisation stands for. you talk about your organisation that has all of these member salons. you have 571 at the last count salons, as members of your association. there are thousands of sunbed salons in the uk and you know that. your organisation has no teeth. you can't possibly legislate and you cannot have ever helped this lady avoid what happened to her, can you, realistically? this is exactly why your organisation's facts are so out of date. we

represent more than 50% of the market. if we were a high street chain, would be on every high street in the country. i'm very sorry, you need to understand that the facts you are using are outdated. this is the problem we have. why won't you meet with us? we have asked you for five years to engage with us. do you accept that sunbeds could be used responsibly? note, never stop what using a single use of a sunbed is irresponsible? i look at what the medics tell us. i'm not a medic. but i have not seen anywhere in the evidence that it has said occasional use is going to cause you long—term problems? the problem that we have is there is a study at the moment going on into addiction to tanning, andi going on into addiction to tanning, and i spoke to a lady a couple of yea rs and i spoke to a lady a couple of years ago and sadly she is no longer with us, and she was utterly addicted to tanning and she would go from salon to salon, through different areas of where she lived, to avoid anyone knowing what she was

doing. she would use ten minutes in one area of the town and then go of the mast up white but she is an aduu the mast up white but she is an adult and she knew what she was doing and she was deliberately getting around the rules. but what rules are they? as i say, you represent over 50% of salons but what warnings are there?|j represent over 50% of salons but what warnings are there? i notice because obviously, you want people to be responsible in the sun and i went on your website, just to see what was on there, and you are running a competition for people to wina running a competition for people to win a holiday to tenerife. yes. i know that is in conjunction with a company we won't name, but nowhere didi company we won't name, but nowhere did i see on that competition that it is mentioned that you should be taking sunscreen, is that the kind of thing should be appetising when you're concerned about people's sun use? that came on the back of, there was a recent report about people

saying... there was a report that said people are blaming package holidays for melanoma and skin cancer. we totally disagree with that. it is not the fault of the package holiday, it is what we do when we get there. but there is a direct link between sunbathing and skin cancer, so it does not matter how you are paying although you are going through, you're going on a sun. but these guys have supported us and say they are great, it is what they do when they get there. because they are package holiday company. of course, but if you did a bit more digging on the website you would have seen there is more information there. i did and i didn't see anything around... you just put your details into in the price, there's nothing about saying that you understand about safe sun. it may well be on the social media pages then but they are saying that they are supporting melanoma uk, on they are supporting melanoma uk, on the back of making sure you have a holiday and you are sensible when you are there. i take your point on that fully. people texting in, one says, "i used sunbeds and dealt with

stage two melanoma, if they are not bad for you, why isn't the association going for cancer research or who?" angie says she is a sunbed before she goes on holiday because she is dark skinned and she finds she turns better if she goes ona finds she turns better if she goes on a sunbed beforehand and is careful. sharon says she has stage ii melanoma and was a sunbed use, and that was the first thing her co nsulta nts and that was the first thing her consultants queried and she believes it is at least partly responsible, isa tan it is at least partly responsible, is a tan worth dying for? that point, why not go for the who and cancer research uk who are the people coming up with this and saying there's a link? large institutions are like large battleships. it takes a long time to get them to change their mind. colleagues of mine... they are basing it on evidence, notjust saying it. no, the people who wrote the report in 2009, as i said, this is the report that i mentioned, that did not talk about professional sunbeds, it talked about uv devices. that is what skewed the results. are you really going to take them to

court if they keep on saying they wa nt court if they keep on saying they want a court if they keep on saying they wanta ban court if they keep on saying they want a ban on sunbeds? as i said, the last thing we want to do... but will you do it, that is what people a lwa ys will you do it, that is what people always say. if you will engage with us, sit with us and correct some of the statements you are making that are wholly untrue. saying they want are wholly untrue. saying they want a ban is their opinion, they want a banner they will lobby for that and when you take action against them. it isa when you take action against them. it is a free country, of course they can campaign as much as they want. let us do it, then. but any campaign has to be based on the truth. government agencies engage with us and so do local authorities. we help them. that is how we have been able to grow our membership and that is how we have been able to do the continuous professional development that we have done in our industry. the industry has changed so much in the last ten years. there is so much thatis the last ten years. there is so much that is so outdated but all we ask melanoma uk or anybody who is against sunbeds is to engage with us and campaign on the truth, not misleading facts. a quick final

comment and we are out of time. misleading facts. a quick final comment and we are out of timem is find that you say you want to engage with us and we have said to you, if you want to sue us, we have to your proceedings. you have written to stage four melanoma patients... we would rather talk to you face—to—face w you have been threatening to sue for a year, are you going to do it or not? are you? if melanoma uk don't engage... you are going round in circles. if melanoma uk don't engage... you are going round in circleslj if melanoma uk don't engage... you are going round in circles. i was contacted are going round in circles. i was co nta cted a are going round in circles. i was contacted a month ago by the nhs in northern ireland, their chief of health and they are happily using the image of the side of my head in each sunbed salon, to basically say, like you buy a cigarette packet and it has the dangers of cancer, it is my side profile which is going to be on every sunbed in northern ireland to say there is a direct link. choose to use the sunbed and this is a risk. we would rather engage. i didn't know about that but of course, didn't know about that but of course , we

didn't know about that but of course, we do provide warnings. but we have gone over time but that is interesting point because cigarette packets carry very graphic warnings. alcohol warnings. would you support that in tanning salons?” alcohol warnings. would you support that in tanning salons? i support education and adults making a choice, either in the sun or a sunbed. well informed so does the picture help they make the choice? informed choices for adult. we will see if that is the way to go. thank you forjoining us. keep your comments coming in. some breaking news to bring you. we are hearing that a murder investigation has been launched after a thames valley police officer died following an incident in berkshire, that has just come to us from thames valley police. it was attending a burglary in burnfield in berkshire, and the pc involved, we are hearing, is called andrew harper. this is just are hearing, is called andrew harper. this isjust coming through to us in the past few moments from

thames valley police, pc andrew harper has very sadly died while attending a reported burglary in berkshire, and a murder investigation has been launched. we will bring you more on that as we get it. the liberal democrats are facing pressure to back jeremy corbyn as a caretaker prime minister in order to stop a no—deal brexit, after several figures said they were open to the idea. but lib dem leaderjo swinson has called the idea of making corbyn pm "nonsense", and instead says someone who doesn't have the desire to lead long—term should be pm. she has suggested tory ken clarke and labour mp harriet harman. joining me now by webcam from edinburgh is lib dem mp christine jardine. thank you forjoining us. would you supportjeremy corbyn as interim prime minister in order to stop a no—deal brexit? prime minister in order to stop a no-deal brexit? what we have said is

that we want to see a motion of no confidence in the government which jo swinson suggested tojeremy corbyn before recess. we want to see that and we want to see a government of national unity to get us through the difficult period, to have a people's vote and then a general election. once we have is the brexit crisis. this is a crisis. it needs a government of national unity. what jo swinson suggested is that we need somebody who can bring the house together, who has support across the benches. ken clarke and harriet harman are two people who are often talked about as people who should have been prime minister at one time so if we could get one of them, that would be perfect. jeremy corbyn, u nfortu nately, would be perfect. jeremy corbyn, unfortunately, does not seem to have the support they do. well, you have put your alternatives forward but if jeremy corbyn were not to endorse that, your options would not have a chance of getting through, either, would they? in that case... hang on... go on. surely ifjeremy corbyn wa nts to

on... go on. surely ifjeremy corbyn wants to stop a no—deal brexit, he will want the best option for the country and if the best option is somebody who can put country before country come —— country before party, rise above the political argument, jeremy corbyn should support that. the exact same could be levelled at you, couldn't it, if you adamantly want to stop a no—deal brexit, supportjeremy corbyn if he is the person... why not? we are not setting any red lines or saying our leader should be prime minister. we are saying we need a government of national unity which has someone who can command the support across the house. the numbers would need to stack up forjeremy corbyn but what we are saying is that it is important we get out of this mess, because a no—deal brexit is the immediate problem, and then stopping a damaging brexit comes next. but if he does not step back or say he is ready to step back and support can gargle harriet harman, and he is the only show in town, —— and support ken clarke or harriet harman, that

he is the only show in town, would you back in for a no deal —— does stop no—deal brexit? you back in for a no deal —— does stop no-deal brexit? surely ken clarke and harriet harman have more chance of commanding the support of the house, thenjeremy corbyn would stand by and support them. do they? a lot of labour mps will support jeremy corbyn... a lot of labour mps will support jeremy corbyn. .. the problem... you have got 15 mps. we are not talking about our 15 have got 15 mps. we are not talking about our15 mps, have got 15 mps. we are not talking about our 15 mps, we are talking about our 15 mps, we are talking about the general thing across the house for a government of national unity. we are in this mess because they prime minister set red lines and then she stepped up to the labour party and could get nowhere and jeremy corbyn has been enabling this conservative brexit but what we are talking about now is finding a way out of this, no red lines, and the best way forward and jo swinson has suggested an option. so this is not a red line, you could foresee supporting jeremy corbyn if that we re supporting jeremy corbyn if that were the only option? jeremy corbyn does not have the support. we are

talking about someone who can command the support of the house, and jeremy corbyn has not been able to do that so far. both ken clarke and harriet harman has that they're prepared to do this and i believe we have to put party politics aside and look for the best way forward, and jo has suggested this, and has been suggesting a vote of no confidence and we will support a vote of no—confidence in this government to get us out of the mess. we want jeremy corbyn to put forward the vote of no confidence because he's only one who can do it. he didn't actually do it when we asked him to before recess, and hopefully he will do it now. thank you forjoining us. a murder investigation has been launched after a thames valley police officer died following an incident in burfield in berkshire. danny shaw is here to tell us more. this is a tragic incident, and what we know is that pc andrew harper, a co nsta ble we know is that pc andrew harper, a constable from the rhodes police and proactive unit at abingdon station

from thames valley police, was attending a burglary, there was an incident and he has been killed while performing his duties. a murder enquiry has been launched and ten people have been arrested and are now in custody. unconfirmed reports, and i should stress they are unconfirmed at the moment, suggest he was struck by a car and they have been dragged under the vehicle. as i say, those reports have not been confirmed by thames valley police. but there are initial reports about what happened. clearly, an absolutely tragic incident for the police service and for pc harper. it will obviously again raised concerns about levels of serious violence and crime and the protection for police officers but we don't know the full circumstances of the incident and it is now under investigation. thank you forjoining us. of course, there will be more on that on the bbc news channel throughout the rest of the afternoon and you can also stay up—to—date online as well. just go

to the bbc news website. keep the conversation going with us throughout the rest of the day. we can throughout the rest of the day. we ca n always throughout the rest of the day. we can always take your messages via the usual outlets, online and also via twitter. we can all keep the conversation going, good to hear from you at any time. bbc news live is coming up next. thank you for joining us. i will see you next week. have a good weekend. goodbye. it is rather unpleasant outside the moment. some heavy rain has been moving its way in from west to east. you can see from the recent rainfall radar picturejust how you can see from the recent rainfall radar picture just how wet it is across many parts of the uk. it is pushing towards eastern areas. it

will probably arrive towards east anglia and the south—east of the lunch time. while the rain moves eastward, it will be quite heavy at times, particularly in south—west england, through wales and the midlands. some localised flooding problems could be an issue here. some sunny spells for north—western areas but really quite windy for many. these are the gusts come up to 30-40 many. these are the gusts come up to 30—40 mph, perhaps higheraround many. these are the gusts come up to 30—40 mph, perhaps higher around the irish sea coasts. the highest temperatures in northern ireland, 22, and elsewhere, beneath the rain and wind, it will feel quite disappointing this afternoon. the rain will clear away towards the east through the evening. as we go to the weekend, while there will be some showers, particularly in northern and western parts of the uk, for many, it will be dry over the weekend with some sunny spells, but quite breezy, if not windy conditions, for most of us over the weekend. goodbye.

you're watching bbc newsroom live — it's 11:00am, and these are the main stories this morning... a murder investigation is launched after a thames valley police officer dies following an incident in berkshire. a provisional deal for the take—over of british steel has been reached with turkey's military pension fund. a man from surrey admits trying to murder a bulgarian teenager in what's being described as a far right terrorist incident. the lib dem leader says she's got the support of senior mps, who'd be prepared to lead an emergency government aimed at stopping a no—deal brexit. the power cut that brought large parts of the uk to a standstill. the national grid has until the end of the day to submit a formal report into what went wrong.