hello. it's monday, it's ten o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire. it's personal, anti—semitic, and relentless. this is just some of the abuse countdown presenter rachel riley has received on twitter. today she's joining other people in the public eye in a new campaign, pledging not to "feed the trolls" by engaging with them. we will talk to her in a few moments. "the madder hulk gets, the stronger he gets". borisjohnson‘s compared himself to the incredible hulk when it comes to brexit. will it help him in his talks with eu chiefjean—claude juncker today? the guardian newspaper apologises for an editorial saying that david cameron only experienced "privileged pain" when his

disabled son died. one mp tells us she was horrified by the words. the majority of parliamentarians in parliament are just trying to do a decentjob and i think that those words, the use of those terms in that editorial, were entirely inappropriate and must have been very hurtful to david cameron. and what happened after nadine pinnock, an unemployed 22—year—old living in cardiff, posted this tweet appealing for work? she's here to tell us. hello. welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning. this solid gold toilet has gone missing from blenheim palace.

it has been ripped out by thieves. how on earth they walked out with no one noticing, i don't know. we will talk to someone who might be able to tell us and about the attempt to try and track it down. also — what do you make of the guardian's editorial saying that former pm david cameron only experienced privileged pain when his disabled son died? the guardian's apologised and changed the wording. thank you for your comments on this. tom on twitter says, "disgusting, both cameron and gordon brown lost children at a young age, something you would not wish on your worst enemy, and both handled with total dignity". another one says, "much as i think the guardian editorial was wrong, the suffering the bollington boys cameron and johnson are inflicting on millions is far worse". liam says, "this is not class warfare, but no, the comments we re class warfare, but no, the comments were not appropriate at all. losing a child does not get easier if you are rich". thank you for those. get in touch with the programme is a

ways, send us an e—mail, twitter messages. now the news with carrie gracie. the sports broadcaster and former england footballer gary lineker is one of a number of british celebrities who've agreed not to draw attention to any abuse they receive on social media sites. they've adopted the new approach after research suggested that publicising offensive comments played into the hands of so—called trolls. the group, which also includes london mayor, sadiq khan, says victims should mute notifications. and we'll be hearing from countdown presenter rachel riley, who has told this programme that she's had to block over 1,500 people on twitter, because of the amount of anti—semitic abuse she receives. oil prices have risen sharply after the drone attacks on two processing plants in saudi arabia which have prompted concerns about global supplies. at the opening of the asian markets overnight, brent crude initially rose by nearly 20%. prices have since fallen back, after president trump tweeted

that he would authorise the release of strategic us oil reserves if necessary. in a series of tweets, the us president stopped short of directly accusing iran, but suggested possible military action once the perpetrator was known. borisjohnson is to meet the president of the european commission, jean—claude juncker, for face—to—face talks. the prime minister says he's "cautiously optimistic" ahead of the talks, but has made clear that he'll reject any offer to delay brexit further. it comes after the eu's chief negotiator, michel barnier called for "concrete proposals from downing street" to break the impasse. universities should be legally responsible for students' mental health needs, according to a former health minister. sir norman lamb says lives are being put at risk because some universities are not keeping track of waiting lists for counselling. his comments come as an inquest opens into the death

of ceara thacker, a student at liverpool university, who took her own life last year. the university says it was deeply saddened by ceara's death and is working with the health services on changes. the former labour mp, chuka umunna, is expected to criticise jeremy corbyn today, in his first speech as the liberal democrats foreign affairs spokesman. mr umunna, who joined the lib dems injune, will condemn mr corbyn‘s handling of anti—semitism in the party, and call him an "apologist" for russia. labour has said it's taking "decisive and robust action" against anti—semitism. too many uk workers are missing out on basic employment rights such as the minimum wage and paid holidays, according to a report published today. a report by the think tank, the resolution foundation, which does research into low—income jobs, claims workers in hotels and restaurants miss out more than others on legal workplace entitlements. the government says it's committed to tackling firms

that break the rules. that is the summary of the news. now back to victoria. countdown presenter rachel riley has told this programme she's had to block over 1,500 people on twitter because of the amount of anti—semitic abuse she receives. today, a group of politicians, actors and television presenters are calling on other public figures to stop engaging with online trolls, in an attempt to stamp out cyber hate. among those making the plea are gary lineker, sadiq khan and richard 0sman, who have endorsed a new guide on how to combat online abuse. published by the centre for countering digital hate, it advises people not to engage with any form of abuse, and instead block and, if necessary, report those guilty of it. rachel's received tweets like this. "hopefully one day israel pays rachel enough that she can retire in a stolen

apartment on the gaza strip." excuse the strong language here, "how on earth am i supposed to call rachel riley a bleep now that she's blocked me?" and "does the state of israel pay you per tweet?" do they have any rules or can you make any old leap and cobble together anything as long as it's anti—corbyn." but does the decision not to engage with tweets like this allow online trolls to spread hate and misinformation unchallenged 7 let's talk to rachel riley and imran ahmed, ceo of countering digital hate. thank you forjoining us. you have had to block, you say, over 1500 people on twitter. why? well, i am, you know, a woman in the public eye soi you know, a woman in the public eye so i was used to trolling for being a woman 01’ a so i was used to trolling for being a woman or a football fan and i was used to ignoring them because i knew those kind of trolls were just after attention but i did not realise when i accidentally stepped into the

realm of political trolling with anti—semitism, that that is what... they are exactly the same, they are after publicity. they purposefully target public figures to try to get some of our followers to read their doctrine, basically. ifa some of our followers to read their doctrine, basically. if a public figure has $500,000, say, and you retweet someone, and 95% of your followers say, "this is appalling, disgusting, racist and horrible", thatis disgusting, racist and horrible", that is 5%, 25,000 people you are exposing to a racist and i don't wa nt to exposing to a racist and i don't want to do that. i have no need to see what these people are writing. if somebody said that to mean the street, i'd walk away so there's no reason i should get it when i'm at home with my cats and my husband, whatever i'm doing. we gave an example of some of the abuse you have received but it is across a whole spectrum, isn't it? give the audience an idea. you have to love to defuse it because part of the paper says that being a victim breeds more victimhood, they will attack you more. i've had all sorts.

i have a tweet saying my dead grandad would be disgusted by me. i've been compared to abu hamza, a prettier version, a nazi, a white supremacist, a paedophile enabler. you name it, these people are saying it. i don't need to give them any oxygen. it is pointless. how are you able to laugh about it? it can't a lwa ys able to laugh about it? it can't always have been like that. no. i mean come in the early days, from september to christmas, i was tweeting by myself and trying to respond to everyone that contacted me. i thought education, i was quite naive, i thought education was the key. you thought you could convert people? i just key. you thought you could convert people? ijust thought key. you thought you could convert people? i just thought education, key. you thought you could convert people? ijust thought education, i realised very early that there is a very small fringe of extremist you are not going to convert that i was trying to speak to the silent majority. i spent four months educating myself. itook majority. i spent four months educating myself. i took an anti—semitism course online, a six week course. i read stuff, i spoke

to experts, i went tojewish groups, i spoke to counter extremist, eve ryo ne i spoke to counter extremist, everyone i could speak to and in january i was ready to go public and i went on the podcast with krishnan guru—murthy and at that point, the week leading up to that, before it had even gone out, it was like a switch had slipped and he trolling stepped up a gear. i now know through research with ccd h and with cst, that they have done analysis that it cst, that they have done analysis thatitis cst, that they have done analysis that it is a very small number of accou nts that it is a very small number of accounts that drive a lot of hate and it is strategic and tactical. imran, they have even found far right hammocks, there are literally playbooks for trolling, telling trolls how to gain followers and spread their messaging and it is through hordes of people attacking people with high profiles. it is so important we don't let them. i don't wa nt to important we don't let them. i don't want to help them. my aim in this is to shed light, try to educate and inoculate the masses with the truth because i think that is ultimately, the truth will inoculate and stop hate but i don't want to

accidentally help these people in the process. you first came across a campaign called the boycott rachel riley campaign when you learnt you we re riley campaign when you learnt you were pregnant. what effect did that have a new? it really focused me to realise that blocking people is not weakness. it is strong because it is human instinct to defend yourself, but since being pregnant, anyone who has been there will know you have a bit of sugar and your baby starts wriggling straightaway. you are in a great mood all day, your baby is getting you and having a great time, i had getting you and having a great time, ihada getting you and having a great time, i had a stressful weekend on social media and my baby went quiet for a couple of days and that made me realise however mentally strong i am, there is a reaction, fight or flight, am, there is a reaction, fight or flight, adrenaline, hormones going through your body and now i'm sharing them, i don't need to give that to my baby by any stretch, there is no cause for it. what kind of people are trolls? there are a numberof of people are trolls? there are a number of different types of trolls and we see both individuals who are motivated by a desire to cause pain,

they take pleasure from causing pain to other people but there are also highly organised networks of people who share a hateful ideology, whether it is racist or religious intolerance, homophobia or misogyny. they use trolling as a tactic, as a way of exposing more people to their hate and as rachel says, what they do is deliberately use really horrid terms, really personal abuse, to people, to get them to react and therefore, to amplify them. rachel beautifully illustrated the mathematics behind that and how it works. and this advice to block people now rather than trying to engage with them or educate them, as you are suggesting, rachel, or retweet them, definitely not, that has got to stop because, as you say, it gives them more publicity. we can go through the technical aspects of it and it is complicated and it is in the report and we are absolutely

certain that what they are looking for is a reaction of any kind because it boosts their numbers. so what you say is defending yourself online is a trap? it is, absolutely, i think of it in the way my mum used to say to me, if you've got an itch, don't scratch or it will spread. it isa don't scratch or it will spread. it is a disease in society that we are actually constantly scratching, allowing it to spread. that is what is driving the increase in hateful ideas and hateful speech, in this attitude that is exemplified by the kind of nastiness that we see in politics today stoplight but if somebody is having —— politics today stoplight but if somebody is having -- someone is having malicious gossip spread about them or untruths, surely you have to call it out? go on. the way i interact now, if i see something awful and i want to highlight it, i will screen grab it and i will redact their handle, so i will block it out and i can still use that and make my argument but i'm not

legitimising the conversation by giving them a right to reply. if it is racist and hideous, why do i want to amplify their message? you are spreading it. but i am countering it so when i say this is what people are saying and this is a problem out there, this is what is wrong, and i'm putting my message across though iam i'm putting my message across though i am trying to do that without giving that person a platform. to be very specific, there is a direct effect if you interact with their account. if you are quote tweeting or re—tweeting or responding back, it's notjust gives people... it broadcasts stuff so you can click through and see more from that person but there is also a gaming effect on the algorithms that underlie the social media platforms, and it pushes up those tweets in relevance, so and it pushes up those tweets in relevance , so more and it pushes up those tweets in relevance, so more people are exposed to them, whether they are following them not. so activity is boosted in a way, is that what you mean? absolutely and that is how tech companies make their money, by finding the most engaging content, the stuff that is getting more eye balls the stuff that is getting more eyeballs on it, and then boosting it

because it is in the economic interests. sean says, "i'm not sure about this approach but isn't it censorship and hiding reality? surely shaving is the best way to deal with it?" but you say not? absolutely not, they have a right to free speech, they have a right to hold their disgusting opinions, but we have no duty to hand them a megaphone and to allow them to broadcast it to even more people. 0k. by blocking them, we are saying we don't want to have to listen to it ourselves as individuals. we don't want to have to listen to hate being targeted at us. there is no duty for any individual to suffer the anxiety and really the pain of being abused based on their identity or for any reason whatsoever.m being abused based on their identity or for any reason whatsoever. it is counterintuitive, though because i used to retweet when i saw something awful and just assume, and most people object and see how awful it is but i did not realise i was accidentally spreading the message so now i don't, i block and like i say, the screen grab is a much better thing for me because... 1500

people block sounds like a large number but it is a tiny amount of people that are driving this. that has cut it out, i've changed my settings and my mental health is a lot better and my baby is a lot happier. seriously, your mental health is a lot better? what is the difference, that is really interesting. social media now means that anyone can contact you when you are getting out of bed, going to bed, carrying on with your life and it is targeted. they have whatsapp groups where they decide what they wa nt to groups where they decide what they want to talk about all who to target that day. if you do a post and you get 50 angry people telling you that you are an idiot and wrong, it has an effect on you. but that is what they are trying to do, use a small number of people, most of the time anonymous people, anonymous accounts, to change you, to change the way you act and speak. it does provoke a reaction that is not necessarily that helpful. this report has totally change the way are you social media and it is so much better. i want to mention a

couple of tweets you have sent to people and you can tell me whether you think this is trolling or not. injanuary, you think this is trolling or not. in january, you you think this is trolling or not. injanuary, you tell you think this is trolling or not. in january, you tell george you think this is trolling or not. injanuary, you tell george galloway tosoff injanuary, you tell george galloway to s off after he criticised you on twitter. —— two f. you have used strong language to call others with whom you disagree. you tweeted that jeremy corbyn is an anti—semite, pass it on. no matter how you feel about how he handled anti—semitism or lot in the labour body, is that an example of trolling? that is an example of my reaction to trolling. the george galloway tweet came in the week the podcast came out so in a week where i am not sure how many thousands of messages of abuse i got and at that point, george galloway, before having seen what i had said, added to it. that was an example of me accidentally amplifying a troll. i consider him an anti—semitic troll andi i consider him an anti—semitic troll and i will no longer interact with him in the slightest. in terms of campaigning againstjeremy corbyn, i have posted countless bits of

evidence and in the end, you know, people are trying to use humour, a nyway people are trying to use humour, anyway they can to get this message out there the jewish community anyway they can to get this message out there thejewish community are very scared. they are worried, people are considering leaving the country and it is a hugely serious issue stoplight do you regret any of those? i don't regret calling jeremy corbyn an anti—semite, i will do it until my dying breath but i would not get the same reaction to george galloway, i would block him now on the advice of ccdh. this tweet says, "the issue is bigger than feeding or not that the trolls, regulating social media attracts like because it is about what kind of abuse cou nts it is about what kind of abuse counts as freedom of expression for regulators which is why we need to allow a variety of perspectives to allow a variety of perspectives to allow for variegation". this one says," employ a team of expert scammers to expose these individuals, the cowards who depend on anonymity to carry on their despicable behaviour and they are all traceable with the right skills". is that the answer ultimately, that social media companies or police have to track

them down or is it an impossible job? i think this particular campaign is because of the failure of our governments, which seem to be busy with their self—inflicted problems, or tech companies, busy with their self—inflicted problems, ortech companies, which frankly are economically incentivised to keep the abuse going, to keep the controversy going because it keeps eyeballs on their networks, and therefore, ad revenues and we are saying that as a society, we can step in and make a difference right now. this is about what we, all of us can do straightaway, which is to say that if we do see hate online, we will ostracise it. we will block it from our view and we won't actually reward it by giving them what they seek, which is either them what they seek, which is either the pleasure of seeing us in pain or having their message rebroadcast. i think it is fantastic that people like rachel and gary lineker and others have picked up on this and said, "some of our past behaviours,

a tweet here or there, might not have been the right approach". and this advice works for everyone, do you believe, is that what you are saying? all of us in society have a duty and responsibility to use this... it is the same advice that jesy from little mix has been given to her followers, block it and take some time out. "this visa is not only to high profile, the abuse, because i want a people's vote on brexit, i've had to block over 200 people on twitter because of the abuse i've received", said norman. dave used to be a troll, and he says, "fifteen— 20s go, i was trolling everyone i did not like but people started ignoring me and it was boring and not fun anymore plus hurtful to them. now i have matured andi hurtful to them. now i have matured and i don't do social media and still regret my behaviour". well done, dave. bryan says, "trolls our sad little people who have too much time on had a need to get a job.

don't listen to them, it gives oxygen". i don't know the answer to that, you can ask iman stoplight who is going to win this? i don't watch it! don't apologise, that is fine, thank you for coming on the programme. appreciate it. could borisjohnson really be on the brink of negotiating a new brexit deal? he's arrived in luxembourg this morning to meet the european commission presidentjean—claude juncker. there is some hope, on the uk side at least, that a solution might be found to prevent the return of a hard border on the island of ireland — the so—called backstop. the uk is supposed to be leaving the eu on 31st october. mps have voted in favour of a new law which would force the pm to ask for an extension to that deadline if he can't find a deal by mid—0ctober. but the pm told a newspaper yesterday that he will ignore that deadline. in an interview with the mail on sunday, he said the uk would emulate bruce banner, the fictional scientist who transforms into the incredible hulk when angry. the paper reports thatjohnson

and three of his closest advisers have a secret plan to ignore the act commanding the prime minister to ask brussels for an extension. johnson said, "the madder hulk gets, the stronger hulk gets". we asked for someone from the government to come onto the programme. no one was available. but i've been speaking to angela smith — who was a labour mp, then left and joined change uk, and is now a liberal democrat. and to geoffrey van 0rden who serves as leader of the conservatives in the european parliament. does he believe borisjohnson, who says a deal is getting closer, or the president of the eu commission, who isn't so sure it is? i preferred to believe the british prime minister. i know that he wants a deal and prime minister. i know that he wants a dealandi prime minister. i know that he wants a deal and i know that he's putting a deal and i know that he's putting a lot of effort into getting deal and that talks are going on. he went to see the irish prime minister last monday. now he is going to see jean—claude juncker in luxembourg.

monday. now he is going to see jean—claudejuncker in luxembourg. i think the pace is accelerating and that we will get a deal. angela smith, asa that we will get a deal. angela smith, as a new liberal democrat mp, where your policy at the next election will be to cancel brexit, do you want borisjohnson to get a deal or not? what we are saying is that if borisjohnson deal or not? what we are saying is that if boris johnson gets a deal or not? what we are saying is that if borisjohnson gets a deal, that if borisjohnson gets a deal, thatis that if borisjohnson gets a deal, that is fine but bring it back to parliament. there would have to be a parliamentary vote and we would have to have a look at the detail of the deal. but in any case, our view is any deal agreed by parliament, let's suppose a minute borisjohnson's deal gets through parliament, but it would be incumbent on the deal going back to the people for a final say, a people's vote. would you vote for a people's vote. would you vote for a tweet deal if mrjohnson brings one back? it depends what the tweaks are. it really does. we would have to see what it looks like. if you did... if you didn't vote for it, then that means no deal might be the

outcome, a prospect you have described as terrifying? well, absolutely, but my support for a deal agreed by parliament would be incumbent on it going back to the people for a final say and we think thatis people for a final say and we think that is the democratic way forward. i think that is the democratic way forward. ithink any that is the democratic way forward. i think any sensible prime minister would agree to that way forward and compromise with parliament. you also seem to be saying that you might vote for a deal, should he bring one back. know, if he agrees to a referendum to put a deal to the people, then i think parliamentarians would be far more inclined to support... look, i said to theresa may a year ago... let's not bring in the old pie minister, sorry, that is absolutely bizarre because the lib dems policy now is to cancel brexit, yet you are saying... no, no stoplight it is, sorry, it is. no, the lib dems policy is that we still prefer to

settle the issue of brexit in a people's vote come in a referendum, a final say referendum. failing that, if the referendum does not materialise, and a general election is called, that general election would de facto be a brexit referendum, i'm afraid. now i don't wa nt referendum, i'm afraid. now i don't want that to be the case, i would prefer to have a proper referendum on brexit. boris johnson, as you know, is never going to agree to a second referendum and there was no majority in parliament for a second referendum earlier this year. if you get to the general election, how do you justify campaigning to scrap brexit and completely ignoring the biggest exercise in democracy this country has ever seen? because a general election would be an up—to—date test of the opinion of the people and given the failure of brexit to be settled before this hypothetical general election, it would, as i have said, de facto become a referendum on brexit. i don't think that is the right way

forward. but if that is where we end up, thenl forward. but if that is where we end up, then i think the liberal democrats are entirely entitled, as i have said, to campaign for remaining in the european union, and the logic of that is that if we won that election, if we formed a majority, and this is the basis upon which the lib dems are campaigning, if we won the election, then of course, if we won the election, then of course , we if we won the election, then of course, we would have won a vote to remain an revoking article 50 becomes the mechanism by which we do that. do you accept that? well, i don't accept that, i'm totally confused by all of this. i suppose they have come out in their true colours, and that is that all along, they don't want to leave the european union, they are prepared to accept anything the european union throws at us, and they have been thoroughly dishonest with the british people over this. i think what we are suggesting is that we get a deal and then i think there will be a general election and people can make their decision because at the moment, we have a

parliament which can't come to any of the right conclusions, and the prime minister cannot get the majority is he wants for the policies he wishes to take forward. angela smith? that is bizarre, the very idea that if boris johnson gets a deal and he can't get it through parliament, he then calls an election, that is entirely illogical. surely it would be easier for him at that point, if he can't get parliament to agree his deal, to put it back to the people in a proper referendum? we have had the people's vote, we had it in 2016, the british people are really fed up that here we are, three years on, and parliament has not enabled government to take through a deal with the european union. we want some finality in all of this and i believe that our prime minister will create that finality and we will see sufficient movement on the part of

the european union so that we will have a deal. i'm sorry to interrupt, i'm interested that you blame parliament for the fact that this deal did not get through. surely it is an absolute monumental failure of the conservative government and your previous prime minster, theresa may? well, i disagree with that because we have had throughout the last couple of years, a labour party that has refused to vote in favour of any deal that has been put before it. but opposition parties are entitled to vote against a deal if they don't think it is suitable for their constituents. i am suggesting to you that your former constituents. i am suggesting to you that yourformer prime constituents. i am suggesting to you that your former prime minister set red lines very early on, ruled out possibly the 48% of people who voted remain and then refused to compromise until the last minute when it was too late. well, i disagree with that, if they seriously wanted a deal, they had lots of opportunities to vote for one. what i think we will have now is an acceptable deal. it is up to parliament to support that and then

i think the british people will have an opportunity to express themselves on all of this in a general election andi on all of this in a general election and i think will be sooner rather than later. and can i ask you... mag about can i make the point... go ahead i was going to say boris johnson himself voted against theresa may's deal twice and many of his colleagues, those people who put him into the position of leader of the conservative party, voted against the deal three times. so the responsibility for the failure of that deal does not lie with the opposition benches and the other point i would make is that if parliament does agree a deal, clearly, at that point, we would be leaving the european union on the 31st leaving the european union on the 315t of october. a consequent general election would not be a brexit election. surely that is the logic? do you want to answer that question about boris johnson logic? do you want to answer that question about borisjohnson and other conservative mps voting against the —— theresa may's deal?

basically what angela smith is saying that people like not going to be content unless we remain in the european union. i'm going to stop you there because that was not the question, you be blamed opposition politicians for not voting for a deal when borisjohnson politicians for not voting for a deal when boris johnson did politicians for not voting for a deal when borisjohnson did not vote for that deal and many of your conservative colleagues did not. boris did eventually vote for a deal because he recognised that we needed this to get this over the line. but it is interesting you blame opposition politicians when it is some of your own colleagues. can i just say that this is only to get us over the line of withdrawing from the european union. we have then got to get into these negotiations on the future relationship between britain and the european union. 0k. one final question, if i may, about an editorial in the guardian newspaper, where david cameron, with reference to his profoundly disabled child, who died aged six, was described as experiencing "privileged pain". the paper has

apologised and edited the article now but what do you think of this description of so—called privileged pain? entirely, entirely inappropriate. look, idon't pain? entirely, entirely inappropriate. look, i don't believe in the politics of class warfare. one thingl in the politics of class warfare. one thing i do agree with david cameron on is that we should not judge people by where they have come from. as somebody who comes from a working—class community, i don't wa nt working—class community, i don't want to be judged in that way. i am what i am now, i am trying to a decent politician and i do... i hope i have the generosity to believe that the majority of parliamentarians in parliament are just trying to do a decent job. parliamentarians in parliament are just trying to do a decentjob. i think those words, the use of those tempted that editorial, where entirely inappropriate and must have very hurtful to david cameron. entirely inappropriate and must have very hurtful to david cameronlj agree with that and i was absolutely appalled, and this idea of indulging in these kind of class sniping comments i think is desperate. i mean, david cameron was a very good,

loving father, who was absolutely distraught at the loss of his son, and to make comments like that i think was disgraceful and i'm delighted they have retracted them. we asked the guardian for a interview but no one was available. as we said there, they've changed the wording of the article and apologised, saying it "fell far short of our standards". still to come. we get reaction afterjames corden called out a fellow late—night talk show host in the us for saying it was time fat shaming made a comeback. and we meet the student from cardiff who put out a desperate appeal on social media to find a job and was overwhelmed by the response. are petrol prices here about to go up as a result of the drone attack on two oil facilities in saudi arabia? president trump says the us knows who did it and is "locked and loaded" in readiness to respond, he tweeted. the united states has

issued satellite images, and cited intelligence to back its claim that iran was behind the attacks. iran has denied any involvement — iranian—backed rebels operating in yemen claimed they were repsonsible. oil prices have risen sharply since the attack which caused a big drop in output. our security correspondent frank gardner is here to tell us more. how were these oil fields targetted? pretty accurately. there are still some unanswered questions. the damage is extensive. this is the biggest petrochemical complex in the world in eastern saudi arabia. it's got seven concentric rings of security around it to stop any kind of ground—based attack and they've gotair of ground—based attack and they've got air defences but they went effective against whatever it was that hit them on saturday morning. it's possible it was a combination

of drains and cruise missiles. the houthi rebels in yemen say that they launched a wave of ten drains, but the americans think they weren't launched from yemen, they were launched from yemen, they were launched by uranian proxies out of iraq. iraq says it can't have possibly happened but there is no disputing the fact that the damage has happened and knocked out half of saudi arabia's daily oil production. they are making up some of it from storage facilities but it is going to probably be out of action for about five or six weeks, maybe more. if the output is taken out of the market for an extensive period of time, you can be sure it will be reflected at the pumps. why is the us that iran behind this attack?

mike pompeo was quick to tweet blaming iran. iran has denied it. iran's word recently hasn't been particularly reliable and they gave their word they wouldn't off—load their word they wouldn't off—load the tank —— that the tanker wouldn't off—load in syria but it did. there is no question that whoever attacked these oil facilities, is no question that whoever attacked these oilfacilities, it's is no question that whoever attacked these oil facilities, it's the uranian khurais access. if it is the iranians, they couldn't have done it without technical help. they haven't got the technology to do it on their own. how will people respond? trump says the us is locked and loaded and

is waiting to see what saudi arabia wa nts to is waiting to see what saudi arabia wants to happen. saudi arabia definitely doesn't want a war and nor does it iran. there is a lot of chest beating going on right now. iran saying within 2000 kilometres they can hit every us base in the region. they can but they will be hammered in response. the pain on both sides would be huge. the trouble is that in this hairtrigger atmosphere it wouldn't take much to spark off a confrontation. there is going to be a un meeting today to try and address this and try and de—escalate. the germans have already warned that things are escalating there and the last thing the gulf and world economy needs is another war. absolutely. oil production you've already mentioned and the impact is potentially that petrol prices are going to go up. that seems slightly more parochial

when we are talking about potentially world war iii. when we are talking about potentially world war iiii when we are talking about potentially world war iii. i don't think it's potentially world war iii. i don't think its world war iii because it's not going to be russia against america. this is a local thing that is an extension of the ongoing saudi arabian rivalry. they are fighting in yemen. —— saudi iranians rivalry. they have failed to dislodge the houthis and saudi arabia is fighting a proxy war there with iran. thank you. james corden used his late night american chat show to call out a fellow host in the us, who said, "fat—shaming doesn't need to end, it needs to make a comeback." bill maher is host of hbo's real time with bill maher, and had joked about obesity on his show last week, saying, "fat isn't a birth defect", and "nobody comes out of the womb needing to buy two seats on the airplane." let's have a look at

james corden's response. being fat isn't a birth defect. nobody comes out of the womb needing to buy two seats on the aeroplane. we have got to this weird place where fat is good. it is pointing out that fat is unhealthy, that is what is bad. fat shaming doesn't need to end. it needs to make a comeback. some amount of shame is good. thanks for that, bill! laughter. so i'm sat at home and i'm watching this, and all i could think was as i was watching it was, "oh, man, somebody needs to say something about this. if only there was someone with a platform, who knew what it was actually like to be overweight", and then i realised, "oh, that would be me!" applause. now, there is a common and insulting misconception that fat people are stupid and lazy and we're not, right? we get it, we know. we know that being overweight isn't good for us, and i've struggled my entire life, trying to manage my weight, and i suck at it, right? i've had good days and bad months. laughter. i've basically been off

and on diets since as long as i can remember, and, well, this is how it's going, right? applause. fat shaming only does one thing. it makes people feel ashamed, and shame leads to depression, anxiety, and self—destructive behaviours. self—destructive behaviour like overeating. when i watched that clip, i got up, walked to the freezer and grabbed a pint of ice cream. laughter. i'm kidding, i was already halfway through the pint when i started watching. but bill may have made me finish it! he might have done. and this term, we are using this term... we are using this term "fat shaming". we have come up with a name for it. let's be honest, fat shaming is just bullying. that's what it is. it's bullying. cheering and applause. and bullying only makes the problem worse. we can speak now tojulie creffield, who describes herself as a plus size marathon runner. she's an entrepreneur

and lifestyle coach, who helps get women into running. also here is jane ogden, a professor in health psychology at the university of surrey. she's written three books, including the psychology of eating. how do you respond to what he said? i think it's brilliant he used his platform in that way. he used a lot of humour. sometimes we use humour or mock concern about people's weight but there is no evidence that fat shaming works positively on behavioural change. it's great to raise the profile of this is an issue and it's good to hear it from a man as well. is there any evidence that fat shaming encourages people to lose weight? i think all the evidence is fat shaming makes people feel worse, makes them feel ashamed and lowers their self esteem. it makes them feel depressed and anxious and as a result, what they then do, is self—destructive and some of that is bent over eating.

it's not good for people to be fat shamed —— self—destructive behaviour such as overeating. i think it's the final thing we are allowed to do. it happens at every level. medical professionals sometimes do it and a lot of the women who follow my blog say they afraid to go to the doctors because they are afraid of fat shaming. it's not discreet and even on the internet, it's happening in everyday life. why would doctors fat shame somebody? i went to my doctor yea rs shame somebody? i went to my doctor years ago with a back problem caused by picking up my daughter. i mentioned i was training for a marathon, and he said, you are too fat to run. he made that assumption purely on the way i looked. i had already run a marathon, i was training regularly. you can't tell somebody‘s health just by looking at you can't tell that i'm a five—time

marathon runner, you can't tell what i eat. these assumptions are stupid. do you think that the conversation around fat shaming stops professionals and others pointing out the scientifically proven links between obesity and cancer, for example? or obesity and heart disease? it's a very hard conversation to have because there isa fine conversation to have because there is a fine line between fat shaming and bullying which is about blame and bullying which is about blame and guilt and makes people feel worse. the conversation is about behaviour and responsibility and feeling empowered and taking control of what you do. i think the evidence out there for the impact of excess body weight and obesity on cancer, diabetes, heart disease is very clear. that is education that we need to have out there and people need to have out there and people need to have out there and people need to talk about but because of the fine line between getting the message out and making someone feel ashamed of who they are in such a

fine line, those conversations are very difficult. we know that in the uk2 very difficult. we know that in the uk 2 million fewer women play sport than men as a result of the fear of judgment and we know that being physically active can have a really good effect on mental and physical health and how you look after yourself with fuel and nutrition. if women aren't leaving the front door because they are worried they will because they are worried they will be laughed at or have things thrown at them which a lot of overweight women do when they go out to exercise... stuff is thrown out of the window at them? yesterday a lady said she had a takeaway meal thrown out of a car at her while she was running. this kind of stuff happens all of the time and you've got to have a really strong sense of yourself to get out every day and deal with that level of shaming. what do you think of the body positive movement? explain how you describe that. the body positivity movement came about a few years ago and it was about celebrating health

at any size and feeling good about yourself regardless of your body shape. and promoting positive esteem and positive self image and positive mood around body shame, which is a fabulous thing. the downside to that, which is a problem, is also around the normalisation and ignoring the problems with execs body weight. normalisation of what? it's a fine line. this is a difficult conversation to have. we wa nt difficult conversation to have. we want people to feel good about how they look because that makes them look after themselves and improves self—esteem and then people have happier, better lives. then we don't wa nt happier, better lives. then we don't want to lose the message that obesity is also linked to health problems. if we have images of very thin people, that is bad because we think we'll have to be excessively thin. but if we normalise obesity, that also becomes problematic because it becomes something which loses the problems associated with.

how do you... it's a fine line. how do we straddle that? there is this thing that we grow up, teenage girls are taught that you only really diet and do exercise if you want to lose weight, and we need to move away from that and have exercise and good nutrition something that we all do say that is normal, regardless of whether it's to lose weight or not. i think it's about less focus on what we look like and more focus on how we feel and look after ourselves ona how we feel and look after ourselves on a daily basis. paul says, it should be shameful. in this country obesity is a major drain on the nhs. how do you respond? it may well be but shaming isn't the answer to that. i think shaming is the wrong way forward. it's an awareness of the problem is and what causes obesity and the impact it has on people, but shaming anybody for

anything isn't going to help, it's not a positive way to run a society. thank you. the london fire brigade has been interviewed under caution by police investigating the grenfell tower fire. the fire service said it had been questioned as a "corporate body" as part of the metropolitan police's investigation into the fire. london fire commissioner da ny cotton said she recognised that survivors and the bereaved "need answers" and that the fire service was committed to assisting investigators. she said, "we have always been subject to the metropolitan police investigation and i want to ensure it is accurately and publicly known the brigade has now, voluntarily, given an interview under caution in relation to the health and safety at work act". the london fire brigade has been interviewed under caution by police investigating the cause of the

g re nfell tower investigating the cause of the grenfell tower fire. let's talk about the solid gold loo that was strolen from blenheim palace. it's a piece of art, an 18—carat work by artist maurizio cattelan called "america", which was intially offered to president trump. it was on display opposite the room where winston churchill was born when thieves ripped it out at the weekend. dominic hare is the chief executive of blenheim palace — he is in our oxford studio. good morning. why is it gold loo on display at blenheim palace? the introduction of contemporary art into historic spaces is more common than people realise. stately homes have frequently been sponsors of the arts. we tend to freeze stately

homes at a particular point in time. but at blenheim palace we have promoted the best contemporary artists and challenged them to re—interpret the space for themselves. maurizio cattelan is the latest exa m ple themselves. maurizio cattelan is the latest example and we were proud to have america, one of his statement works in situ until early saturday morning. how was it stolen? quickly. i can't disclose much but there were several men, two vehicles and the whole thing was done extremely quickly. right. to break into blenheim palace and somehow walk out with a solid gold loo without anyone noticing seems almost unbelievable. i can't comment directly but it was noticed they were away before the response. how heavy was the loo? in excess of 110lb but something that

two strong men could do, i guess. how much is it worth? we believe around $6 million, around £5 million. it's very significant. it is solid gold. people perhaps assumed it was plated but it isn't. 0k. assumed it was plated but it isn't. ok. are you insured? assumed it was plated but it isn't. 0k. are you insured? the owners are ensured but i can't comment further on that. we know that the artist has said... "i always liked heist movies and finally i am in one of them". what do you make of that? he is shocked. i think he has taken it very well and very bravely and is trying to make something of the situation. he says america is an illustration of creating something for the 1% that should be shared with the 99%, so it's ironic that so quickly after getting on display it's been snatched away from the 99%. there is a police investigation right now trying to hunt down the

solid gold loo worth 5 million quid. there is a substantial operation under way. we aren't able to discuss elements of it and we don't know what the outcome will be. the blenheim palace, we were open yesterday, we are showing the very substantial rest of our collection and maurizio cattelan's astonishing installation. people can see the crime scene for themselves. see what for themselves? the hole where there was once a toilet and the damage caused by the break—in. was once a toilet and the damage caused by the break-in. thank you very much. we talked earlier about online trolling. well, here's a story about how social media can also be a force for good. nadine pinnock was looking for work, any work. the 22—year—old dropped out of her cardiff university degree because of mental health issues and posted this on twitter. "does anyone need any small tasks doing for around £5? "video editing, photography,

copywriting, i'm pretty "sick at revamping cvs, if you're in cardiff i can "wash your car, weed your garden, walk your dog, water "your plants, etc. "i'm poor and i need to make rent." nadine continued, "i know this sounds desperate "but i really am desperate. "i don't have wealthy family members with money i can borrow. "my entire house earns basically minimum wage. "of course i've been applying for betterjobs with more hours "but it doesn't make the right now any easier." before finishing, "i've sold my car, i've sold basically all of my "belongings that are worth anything. "i'm broke." but nadine had no idea of the kind of response she'd get. she was inundated with offers of work and people offering to give her money. one person wrote, "hi, nadine. "i'm an operations manager for a company based in cardiff. "if you dm me, i'll reply in the morning. "don't want to over—promise but will see what i can do. another said, "i am looking for a copywriter. "dm me when you've had time to sift through all your responses. "will happily pay you more than you're asking."

good morning. first of all, your response to the magnificent response. well, i was shocked. i had no idea that it was going to get more than maybe ten likes or retweets and it's com pletely likes or retweets and it's completely changed my life. overnight, ifeel so completely changed my life. overnight, i feel so much completely changed my life. overnight, ifeel so much more co mforta ble, overnight, ifeel so much more comfortable, so much safer and really excited about life now. because people were kind and people care? yes. complete strangers. yes. that's the strangest thing. obviously, none of these people, nobody owed me anything, nobody had to do anything but people were so kind and generous. it'sjust unbelievable. you were in a pretty dark place before you posted that

tweet. tell us both about your financial circumstances and also what was going on in your head. financial circumstances and also what was going on in your headlj dropped out of uni earlier this year, i had suffered with a lot of mental health problems and it was kind of getting worse throughout the year. then i was kind of in and out of work but out mainly. i was really running out of money and i realised that even though i was applying for jobs, if i got a job, that even though i was applying for jobs, if i gotajob, i that even though i was applying for jobs, if i got a job, i wouldn't have a payday before i would need to pay my rent, so that's why i was quite desperate for quickjobs, something to earn money. how many jobs have you applied for since dropping out? so, almost 200. definitely over 150. as i said, people were offering you work including amazing work like flying to amsterdam to film a video, for

example. what the outcome of all of those job offers? i'm still going through them. there are still so many. i haven't read every message, there are too many. i'm getting through them, i've already submitted a couple of smalljobs for social media and stuff that i've done so far. i've made some really great contacts and doing my best to make the most of all the opportunities. people also donated cash to you. from £5 upwards. how much have people donated in total? overall, i've had over £1300 just in donations. that doesn't include anyone who has offered me work. that's just out of the kindness of their hearts. it is unbelievable. i was more than happy to obviously work hard for any money. but people

just offer it. people are so kind. you told me that with the response, it felt like you were supported by the entire universe which is such a lovely way of putting it. your mum didn't know you had dropped out of um, didn't know you had dropped out of uni, you hid it from her. yes, and most of my family, for months. why? because... i guess i was ashamed. mental health has a big stigma and i also knew that my parents would worry about me, notjust in terms of mental health but also financially. ifi mental health but also financially. if i wasn't at uni, what was i doing, how could i support myself. i didn't want to make my family worry about me because there's not much they could do to help so i hit it. but when i eventually told them, they were really supportive —— i hit it from them. my money so understanding of mental health, i'm really lucky to have her. she does

absolutely she possibly can to help me. she would cross oceans for me. i think now she is really, really chuffed. why did you... what was going on that lead you to drop out of uni? i've suffered with... i got diagnosed with depression when i was 17 but i've had it for longer than that. i was in third year, which is already a lot. i was doing a lot of extracurricular stuff for uni to try and build up experience to get a job after uni and i overloaded myself, stressed myself out to the point where i couldn't face my assignments. i was failing. i've a lwa ys assignments. i was failing. i've always had decent grades but i was getting failing grades for the first time, which was making me spiral out of control. i spoke to my tutor about it and together we spake and decided the best thing was to take

ca re of decided the best thing was to take care of myself first before worrying about grades. the plan would be presumably to go back? yes, eventually i will finish my degree. how has this kindness from strangers changed your outlook? honestly, i've a lwa ys changed your outlook? honestly, i've always been quite cynical person. i believe people are good at heart but it can be hard to see that sometimes. now i realise that people are so unnecessarily kind. just unbelievably generous and it has made me feel so much more positive. notjust made me feel so much more positive. not just about my life made me feel so much more positive. notjust about my life but made me feel so much more positive. not just about my life but so made me feel so much more positive. notjust about my life but so many people replied saying it restore their faith people replied saying it restore theirfaith in people replied saying it restore their faith in humanity people replied saying it restore theirfaith in humanity and it made theirfaith in humanity and it made their day or make their weight. i had a lot of people reach out to me about their mental health struggles. they just wanted someone about their mental health struggles. theyjust wanted someone to talk to and to be able to use social media to create a community of positivity

is, i guess, sometimes quite rare but when you find it it's amazing. really amazing story. i'm so happy for you. thank you for coming on the programme. borisjohnson will soon arrive in luxembourg for talks with eu chiefs over a possible brexit deal. on his arrival about 10 minutes ago — the president of the european commission jean—claude juncker was asked if he was optimistic — he said in german that he never runs out of patience. have a good day. good morning. it's been a cloudy start with patchy rain and drizzle across central and southern parts of england. that is clearing away to the south and we are going to see some sunny spells, politically for

north wales, through northern england. 80 sunny spells in scotland and northern ireland. a few showers in the far north—west. temperatures not as high as yesterday, especially in the south. we reached 27 yesterday. three tonight, the cloud will continue to clear away from the south and there will be some clear skies. some patchy mist and fog developing into tomorrow morning. it could be habitually. temperatures in single figures, holding up to double figures in the far south—west of england. for much of this week, mostly dry. there will be some rain in the north and some chilly nights. temperature starting to rise, particularly by saturday. goodbye.

you're watching bbc newsroom live — it's11am and these are the main stories this morning: borisjohnson is about to meet the european commission president for the first time amid caution on both sides of any swift agreement on brexit. i don't think we'll get a deal today but i think we will make progress today. the prime minister and steve backley the brexit secretary meeting jean—claude juncker today and i backley the brexit secretary meeting jean—claudejuncker today and i am confident we can make progress and get a deal before october 31. we are trying to see what other possibilities to move if it is possible and to do that we need to receive some new proposals. that is very difficult to say. oil prices surge after drone attacks on saudi arabian facilities knocked