hello. it's monday. it's 10 o'clock. i'm victoria derbyshire. 150,000 british holiday—makers are being brought home on special flights after the collapse of thomas cook. this is an enormous task, the biggest ever peacetime repatriation, and i'm afraid it won't all be plain sailing. we'll talk to edward hardy, who's trying to get home from corfu, and ruth morse, who was supposed to be getting married in cyprus in a couple of weeks. she says she's devastated. and in an exclusive bbc interview, we speak to sally challen, who tells us she's sorry she killed the husband who abused herfor three decades. i loved richard and i wanted to be with him and i killed

the man i loved. did he deserve to die? no. and i'm very sorry for what happened. i should have been a stronger person. i should have left him earlier. but i just couldn't. you can watch our fulll interviewjust before 10:30. and british stars did brilliantly at last night's emmys with killing eve and fleabag both picking up awards. i find writing really, really hard and really painful but i'd like to sayjust honestly from the bottom of my heart that the reason that i do it is this! hello. welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning. we are going to spend quite a bit of time talking about thomas cook. if you have a holiday booked with the

company, let us know what your plans we re company, let us know what your plans were and what you can do now. much more to come on that in a moment but first the news with joanna. more to come on that in a moment but first the news withjoanna. good morning. thomas cook, one of the world's biggest tour operators, has collapsed after last—ditch talks to save the business failed. the collapse of the holiday company puts 22,000 jobs at risk worldwide, of which 9000 are based in the uk. the civil aviation authority has launched a major operation to bring home 150,000 british tourists in what's thought to be the biggest ever peacetime repatriation operation. sally challen, who was jailed for nearly nine years for killing her husband after years of living in an abusive marriage, has told this programme she's sorry she killed him. she was freed from prison when her murder charge was reduced to manslaughter with diminished responsibility in june following a successful appeal. she told victoria that she would

always miss her husband. i still miss him. i always will because he was the love of my life. do you regret getting your husband? yes, i do. do you regret getting your husband? yes, ido. definitely. do you regret getting your husband? yes, i do. definitely. -- do you regret killing your husband? and you can see the rest of that interview with victoria a little later this half hour. the shape of labour's brexit policy should become clearer today, with members deciding whether the party should back remain in a future public vote, or adopt the leadership‘s neutral position. attempts to find a consensus behind closed doors failed last night. at least two trades unions will also decide their brexit position this morning. a 19—year—old man has been charged with the murder of a woman whose body was found in staffordshire woodland. police say a body found in tamworth on thursday night is that of 20—year—old keeley bunker, although formal identification has yet to take place. more than eight million people are living in unaffordable or unsuitable homes, according to a new report. the analysis, from the national housing federation, shows overcrowding is one of the most common problems.

the government says housing is a priority and that 430,000 affordable homes have been built since 2010. jodie comer, the star of killing eve, and phoebe waller—bridge, the creator and writer of fleabag, are among the big british winners at this year's emmy awards. the ceremony took place in los angeles last night. game of thrones was also named outstanding drama series for its eighth and final season. finally some heartwarming pictures from spain. they show a deer that found itself trapped in waterlogged ruins near the city of huescar. but a team of passing cyclists came to the rescue and managed to attach rubber inner tubes to the animal's antlers. the five of them then heaved the stricken animal to dry ground, leaving three of the men crashing to the floor, before the deer fled into the woods.

that is a summary of the news. back to victoria. thank you. a busy programme with a lot to pack in and we will start by talking about thomas cook obviously. is our holiday over? how do we get home? how do we get our money back? those are the questions holiday—makers are asking after the collapse of thomas cook overnight. it's going to lead to the biggest ever peacetime repatriation of british people abroad. in a moment we'll talk to the chair of the civil aviation authority, dame deirdre hutton, to find out the answers to some of those questions but first let's talk to some of the holiday—makers who are affected. ruth morse was due to get married on 8th october in cyprus. she can't now, obviously. she is a self—employed cleaner. edward hardy is in corfu and he has to make his way to the airport to try and get a special flight. how are you feeling after what has happened, ruth? just devastated,

absolutely devastated. we have been planning this for two years now, since my brother was murdered, and it has just kept our family focused and together. and waking up to the news this morning is devastating.” am really, really sorry to hear about this. what were your plans then for your wedding? we were flying out to cyprus on the eighth and we were getting married on the 14th. there were about four of us going out to the wedding. —— four. we were getting married on the beachfront. we had a big meal at the venue beachfront. we had a big meal at the venue after. just a two weeks holiday with all of our friends and family. everyone has supported us over the last two years. my brother was the one who has paid for the wedding. it is money that came to us. wedding. it is money that came to us. he got my wedding dress and the wedding. it is heartbreaking now thinking we are back to square one

and it might not happen. well, it won't happen now. after your brother was murdered, what was left to you, you used to pay for this wedding? yes, my mum had some money that she was given to me and my brother and obviously she gave it all to me for us obviously she gave it all to me for us to use on a wedding, for a happy day to try and keep us happy, something to focus on. and then we had some money back from what happened and mum paid for my wedding dress. so my brother paid for it. ideally ben would have walked me down the aisle. he is a man who has beenin down the aisle. he is a man who has been in my life from the start. i even had a tattoo on my foot a few days agojust even had a tattoo on my foot a few days ago just saying that he walks with me so he would still walk down the aisle with me. it is just heartbreaking. do you know how much you and your family heartbreaking. do you know how much you and yourfamily and all your friends have spent on this trip?|j friends have spent on this trip?” know the holiday alone just for the

two weeks out there for our family was £7,500. 0ther two weeks out there for our family was £7,500. other people in our hotel had paid about 3500 each. there were about 25 people in the hotel. we have other people flying out that were staying outside the hotel as well. they might still have to go because they were with other companies. it is one big mess. what are you going to do?” companies. it is one big mess. what are you going to do? i have no idea. try and get my vibes back a little bit and see what i can do but all our money now is tied up and it is just waiting to see when and how much we can get back. some of the money i paid thomas cook went to a third party for decorations, cakes, flowers. whether we will get all that money back now, ijust don't know. i still want to get married obviously so hopefully we will still have a day that it is not going to be what we planned. let's try and a nswer be what we planned. let's try and answer that question about whether you will get money back. the chair

of the civil radiation authority, dame deirdre hutton, is with us. i know you heard what ruth was saying. -- civil know you heard what ruth was saying. —— civil aviation authority. it is devastating for her and her family. what many might she get back?m course it is absolutely devastating andl course it is absolutely devastating and i am very sad for her. there are 800,000 forward bookings, forward people booked on holidays, so it is really, really tough. the best thing she can do, and it is always quite complicated, but the best thing she can do is go to our dedicated website, which is thomascook.caa.co.cuk, and that will tell her whether or not she will get a refund and if it is a atol protected holiday, she will get all of her money back. i assume it is

ato l of her money back. i assume it is atol protected because it is a package holiday, isn't it? it is a package holiday, isn't it? it is a package wedding. we paid through thomas cook, even the decorations and the flowers, i have paid it through thomas cook, but i understand they are using a different company that is coming in to do the flowers, so i am not sure how that works out. an extensive that would be. yes. the majority of the money is obviously for the holiday and the other costs i know we will get back. 0bviously holiday and the other costs i know we will get back. obviously we have been through a lot worse but it is just seeing how much of ben's money we can get back. i am going to bring in edward hardy in corfu. hello. i think you are on your way to the airport now to try and get on one of these special flights. that is the plan. we have had no contact whatsoever from thomas cook, caa, the government, nothing at all. the first we heard about it was waking

up first we heard about it was waking up this morning for the planned bus that we were getting into corfu town near the airport, waking up to that, looking at the bbc news report which said that thomas cook had collapsed, and then using the resources there to go to the caa website which advised us to attempt to go to the airport, where we will hopefully get airport, where we will hopefully get a repatriation flight. but we have had no contact whatsoever. nobody has given us any guidance. it has all come from news sources that we are relying on really. dame deirdre hutton, edward is on his way to the airport to get on one of the special flights. will they be available from today to bring british holiday—makers home? today to bring british holiday-makers home? absolutely. edward, you should not go to the airport. you should stay and enjoy your holiday. we will bring you back on the day you are going to come back anyway. there may be a difference of a few hours, that basically stay and enjoy your holiday. there will be a

repatriation flight for you on the day you were going to come back. so don't go to the airport now. what you must do is look at their website, which is thomascook.caa.co.uk, which will give you details of your new flight. that information will be up on the website about 72 hours before the date on which you were anyway going to go back. so there is no need to worry. just day and enjoy your holiday. if you go to the airport now you will not get on a repatriation flight because we are taking people as their holidays and come on the date they were due to go. they wait, enjoy your holiday, and you will get a repatriation flight and you will get a repatriation flight on the day you were due to travel home. today was the day we we re travel home. today was the day we were supposed to travel home. that is why we had got up so early. and how we found out about it, which was a more worrying bit, having to do the legwork ourselves essentially, working out whether or not there would be a flight. family members

send me information suggesting our flight send me information suggesting our flight has been rescheduled and there will be a repatriation flight, but we got no confirmation of that from anyone. edward, go to the website. that is the main means of communicating with people. if you we re communicating with people. if you were flying today, we have 63 repatriation flights today. if you we re repatriation flights today. if you were due to fly home today, you will have a flight. look on the website and it will give you your new flight number. it is reassuring to hear that from you and to have the website, but it would have been more helpful and more reassuring to have been given some contact and been reached out to. our contact details have got to be given over to thomas cook when we got the flight in the first place, and nobody reaching out is what causes the stress and anxiety for individuals trying to fly out. we are quite fortunate and i think we are fine and everything should be ok but obviously there are those of stressed out there. and the biggest point that needs to be remembered as it is notjust

individuals like ourselves affected. we do remember and i thought go out to the 22,000 people who have lost theirjobs this morning and don't know what is going to happen and there does not seem to be much communication to those individuals. which may be why there has not been any communication, edward. ijust wa nt to any communication, edward. ijust want to read you this from somebody who has contacted us and has not left their name. my husband worked for thomas cook for almost 18 years and we have a young family and he is the only breadwinner. go to the bbc spam there more of a thought for the employees who have lost theirjobs. —— could the bbc bear more of a thought? it is upsetting for people who have had their holidays cancelled but what about the people who need to pay their mortgage? and on that we want to bring you a video of thomas cook passengers on board a flight of thomas cook passengers on board a flight which arrived at birmingham airport earlier this week. the person who posted this video lists their occupation as flight manager for thomas cook. that was the most

positive light. they were hugging us and crying as they left the aircraft, every single one of them. here is a message from them.” wonder if you would be up for a little thomas cook challenge for me? if you could post it on our page when we land? could everybody raise theirarms and when we land? could everybody raise their arms and just say a massive good luck thomas cook and we will video it to put on? if you are on holiday with somebody you are not supposed to be on holiday wed, now is the time to just duck down! anybody on the front row especially. i'll be ready for this challenge, folks? after three, shout good luck thomas cook. one, two, three. good luck, thomas cook! thank you so much. obviously that was before everything went wrong yesterday. deirdre hutton, what else can you

tell us about the repatriation programme? just before i do that, cani programme? just before i do that, can i say that absolutely my heart goes out to the thomas cook employees? this is the world but '5 oldest travel company and it is incredibly sad to see it go like this. as your lady said, 9000 jobs in the uk, people waking up to horrible news for theirjobs and livelihoods and they are very much in our thoughts. we have been asked by the government to repatriate 150,000 people and that is a pretty massive job. it is like building the uk's massive job. it is like building the uk's fourth—largest aircraft from nothing. i uk's fourth—largest aircraft from nothing. lam uk's fourth—largest aircraft from nothing. i am very focused on that. we have 61 flights today. we are bringing people back from 18 countries from 55 airports in the next two weeks. people should stay and enjoy their holidays. as i said to edward, they will be brought back pretty much on the same day they we re pretty much on the same day they were going to come back anyway. the best advice i can give to people is

to go to that website, thomascook.caa.co.uk, because that will have all the information that people need and if there is any extra thing that people need there is also a call centre number on that website. the first flight has actually ta ken from website. the first flight has actually taken from new york, the first repatriation flight, said the programme is first repatriation flight, said the programme is now first repatriation flight, said the programme is now under way. does it apply to holiday—makers here in england? i have a text from a viewer stranded in england from cyprus due to fly out on wednesday. what happens to them? people who have a thomas cook holiday booked, i'm afraid that is not going to happen. nobody should go to the airport. there will be no thomas cook flights. anna maria says i have holiday booked in may, 2020, currently paying by monthly direct debit. i have paid £1000 out of £2400. it is a full package. do i

cancel the direct debit or on paying? it is very difficult to answer individual questions because i don't know all the circumstances. if she is on a package, she will get refunded and she should look at the website because there is information that you clever refunds. but if she is on that you clever refunds. but if she isona that you clever refunds. but if she is on a package with atol protection, she should get refunded. i think she should cancel her direct debit. i agree with that! ruth, your partner, the man you are going to marry, how does he feel about this? he isjust gutted. he is more positive than me. he is trying to be positive than me. he is trying to be positive for me, i think, after everything we have gone through. he has been my rock. he is being my rock again. i am really sorry, ruth, i really am. good luck with getting

all that money back and having a wedding another day, another time. it will happen. thank you, ruth. edward, good luck coming home today. safe journey. dame deirdre edward, good luck coming home today. safejourney. dame deirdre hutton, thank you for your time, the chair of the civil aviation authority. if you have questions about a booking that you have the thomas cook, then simon calder will be on the bbc news channel at 11:30am and you can put your questions to him using the contact details on the screen right now. still to come: sally challen, who was jailed for murdering her abusive husband tells us she's sorry she killed him. and we'll have the latest on a big night for the brits at the emmys. the comedy fleabag stole the show, winning four awards. labour will promise today to provide free personal care in england

for over—65s most in need of it, so they won't have to pay for help with dressing, washing and meals. but that announcement is likely to be overshadowed by in—fighting over the party's brexit policy. a series of crucial votes is being held this afternoon on whether the party should campaign for remain when an election is called or stay neutral, which is what leaderjeremy corbyn has said he wants. the shadow treasury minister is annaliese dodds. she's in brighton and is going to talk about those plans to pay for personal care for elderly people in their homes. that is a really important issue for our audience, that i want to ask you about thomas cook, as you would expect. your shadow chancellor has said that he would have helped the private company with £250 million of taxpayers' money. is that what government should be doing, bailing out private companies? first of all i would like to say that i am deeply concerned about the situation and my heart really goes out to the employees of thomas cook and also

those people who have been stranded. it is good to hear that they will be getting the help to get home. let us be clear, the cost of that helpful people to get home is going to be about £600 million, which will be covered by the taxpayer. would it have made more sense for the government to have dealt with this properly? we have no there has been a problem of thomas cook for some time. should they have got involved with this much earlier asjohn mcdonnell is suggesting or now be picking up the tab for this huge problem which will cost £600 million? it is a no—brainer to me. in august they secured a deal and they still went bust so it could have been good money after bad.” don't think so and i have been following the case of thomas cook for some time. 0bviously following the case of thomas cook for some time. obviously there are some structural issues that have been affecting the transport industry more generally. but having this kind of chaotic situation, where a third is going bust and people are right in the middle of

paying for holidays etc, that should not be a clearing whether a company of this magnitude providing thousands of jobs. i of this magnitude providing thousands ofjobs. i think it would have been different actually if the government had stepped in. john has made the analogy quite rightly with the steel industry. government did get involved to try and give breathing space to try and restructure and deal with some of the problems of that industry. i think we should have seen that from the government now in relation to thomas cook. your suggestion today about paying for a personal care for elderly people, we know it is a massive issue for some of our audience and we have covered it in a number of times on this programme. can you explain what it would mean for people in practical terms? can you explain what it would mean for people in practicalterms? we already have a situation in scotland by people's personal care is covered. that means they don't have the worry of going through the means testing system. and we had a patchwork of arrangements across the country with many local authorities

withdrawing from providing personal ca re withdrawing from providing personal care for all but the most severe cases. this would give a level playing field so people know where they are and they would know they have the cost of that covered. that is what people are crying out for. i think this is really important. a lack of personal care is ending up to people ending up in the nhs. hospital stays because people are not getting that support and they are trying to struggle on their own, having falls and other problems. this would really make sense financially in the long run as well. it isa financially in the long run as well. it is a huge sum of money that it would cost every year, 6 billion every year, would cost every year, 6 billion every yea r, to would cost every year, 6 billion every year, to be paid for by general taxation. which taxes will go general taxation. which taxes will 9° up general taxation. which taxes will go up to pay for it? obviously at the last general election we set out our spending plans but also our revenue plans as well and we were clear that there would need to be a change around taxation. we think the top 5% of people and profitable companies should be paying more tax and we have been expected and

upfront about that. we are developing those plans for the next general election. that is what we have been working on. we set that out at the time of the last general election and we are continuing to work on that. it is a strange situation we have got to where the share of tax paid by the best of people compared to the worst of people compared to the worst of people is really out of kilter. if you look at the percentage of income that the best 10% of people they, the best off 10%, it is less than the best off 10%, it is less than the worst off 10% and we want to change that. what are you going to say to people who want to see the party emphatically campaign to remain in the eu? i might be a shadow minister but i am not actually a delegate so i don't have actually a delegate so i don't have a vote on that conference floor. it will be the delegates who desired. it is the delegates who decide. they

will have a debate around this. my personal preference is that i think it would be better to be clear that we would campaign to remain. i think it is very clear what the leave campaign were setting out and how damaging their version of brexit would be and how damaging no—deal brea ks would be and how damaging no—deal breaks that would be. though that is against what the leader wants?” don't think that is right. somebody who has campaigned for democracy for many years, he will be holding us to whatever conference decide that he has been explicit about that. we're having a debate and discussion about this and that is absolutely right because it is the key issue for the country. it is good to have a debate and people will have different views. they will have different views. they will have different views and you will know that len mccluskey said yesterday that any members of the shadow cabinet who cannot supportjeremy members of the shadow cabinet who cannot support jeremy corbyn's position should step aside, including you, emily thornberry, keirand including you, emily thornberry, keir and john mcdonnell. i'm sorry,

victoria, you are elevating me. i am not a member of the shadow cabinet. iama not a member of the shadow cabinet. i am a shadow minister. we are having robust discussions with the affiliated trade unions. it is really important. they reflect millions of working people in this country. i am clear about what i think would make the most sense for our country. that is the nature of the labour party conference, that we have these debates. it is not a stage—managed occasion. we're having discussions as well about how quickly we can make green transition. they are robust debates but do i want to be a member of a party that has those debates and discussions or a party which is stage—managed and where members don't have a chance to voice their opinion? i'm pretty clear that i wa nt to opinion? i'm pretty clear that i want to be a member of the labour party. the party is proposing that universities should only allow a 7% of their intake to be from private schools. would that be a good policy for the shadow cabinet to follow as well? there has been a lot of

frustration for a long time that when it comes to private schooling and universities, there have been claims that we are moving in the right direction but it has been infinitesimally slow. we really haven't seen that changing intake that we need to see. should this be the policy for the shadow cabinet? that was the question? maybe i didn't hear you. for the shadow cabinet? i have lost you. ask the question again. the party is proposing that universities should only allow 7% of intake to be from private schools. do you think that would be a good policy for the shadow cabinet? at least 10% of the shadow cabinet? at least 10% of the shadow cabinet? at least 10% of the shadow cabinet went to fee—paying schools. right, well, that is an interesting debate. it is not one we have had on the conference floor yet. i have to say that my child goes to a state school. i was determined that he would go to his local school and i think it is really important that we bring

people together and our schools are a mechanism for doing that. i also think incidentally that it is important that our schools are properly funded and they certainly are not at the moment. thank you for talking to us, anneliese dodds, the shadow treasury minister. in an exclusive bbc interview, sally challen tells this programme she's sorry she killed her abusive husband and says she should have left him. the mother of two struck her husband of 31 years, richard, with a hammer 18 times. she was jailed in 2011 for his murder, four years before coercive control was recognised as a crime. following a successful appeal by her sons and a new legal team this summer, her murder charge was reduced to manslaughter with diminished responsibility. having already served nearly nine years in prison, she was able to walk free. ajudge said the killing came after "years of controlling, isolating and humiliating conduct" with the added provocation of her husband's "serial multiple infidelity". now in an interview with this programme, her only bbc interview,

mrs challen reveals that her husband raped her throughout their marriage many times but says she still misses him. she explains she wants to educate people about what coercive control really means, and help other women in situations like hers. and just a warning — the nature of the conversation is graphic, there is strong language, so you may not want children to watch. you have been free from jail for several months now. what has freedom been like? 0h, absolutely amazing. i think the first thing that struck me was that i can open a door and walk out when i want to walk out. my eldest son has got a lovely garden and i can walk around the garden. going to bed when i want, getting up when i want. going to the shops when i want, and i've now got a car so i can drive, which is amazing. why do you want to speak out now?

i feel that i have to speak out for other women. i think that the judiciary, the general public who sit on juries, solicitors need to learn about coercive control, and they need to look for it and understand it, because i don't think they do. and i don't think some of them want to open that box. you met richard when you were a teenager — you were 15, i think... yes. ..he was 22. you were married for 31 years. how did he treat you? when i first met him, i was a 15—year—old schoolgirl in an all—girls' school and he was charismatic. he was charming, he was attentive. we used to drive up to the king's road for a cup of coffee. and he would take me out to dinner. none of this i'd ever experienced.

and he was everything to me, i idolised him. if richard said, "jump", i'd say, "how high?". ijust wanted to please him in any way so he wouldn't leave me. what kind of things did he expect you to do in the home? i was expected to do everything. i cooked, i cleaned, i washed. did he...control you? yes, he controlled my friends. he made it very difficult for me to get close to anybody. he didn't want anyone coming round. he didn't like it if somebody would knock on the door unannounced, not knowing that they were going to come. and there was a great friend of mine who was due to come for dinner and i'd cooked a pavlova, and he took it, smashed it in the sink, and said, "no, you'll have to cancel". he didn't want me getting close to anybody. did he control your money? yes, he did. when we got married, he took my salary and would just

pay me a weekly allowance, which never seemed to change. it seemed to be quite high in the beginning but it then stayed that amount for years, and sometimes i'd have to borrow money from my mother. so you had to give your earnings to him and he gave you a sum back? yes. how much did he give you each week? he used to give me initially £100 a week. did you have a joint bank account? no. richard would never have had a joint bank account ever. why? because he always felt everything was his. that he was the one that had provided everything. he didn't recognise my role at all. he used to belittle you, didn't he, making really horrible comments to you about the way you looked and behaved? yes, he'd talk about my weight... and say what? and he... i can remember him saying

when somebody said, "oh, sally seems to have lost a lot of weight". and he said, "oh, you should see her without her clothes on". how did that make you feel? it made me... ifelt degraded. really, really upset. unsure of myself. i didn't know what he wanted from me. and the thinner i got, the more he would say, "well, you've got a long way to go yet". whatever you said or did seemed to be wrong in his eyes. yes, i could never do anything right. and i was very conscious of everything that i would say to him, to say the right answer. he was very difficult to talk to. he wouldn't listen. if i tried to ask him something, he'd stick his fingers in his ears and say, "la, la, la, la". so, it was very... uncomfortable living with him. did you consider leaving him? i did try to leave him in early 2001 and went to see

a solicitor with my cousin. and she wrote to him. and he tore up the letter. so she wrote again, and he tore up the letter. and he said, "i'm not divorcing you, so you can just as well forget it". so i then thought, "well, nobody can help me, so i'lljust continue". and... so you stayed? i stayed. that was the time i should have left, but i didn't. richard had always cheated on me, even from when we were first going out. but i always hoped that he would change. and you actually witnessed him going into a brothel on one occasion and leaving a brothel. yes. and despite you seeing it with your own eyes, he completely flat—out denied it to you, didn't he? he did. he said i was mad. and he'd just been there

to sell someone a car. it's very difficult to describe. it's as though you think you're going mad — "did i really see what i saw? was it really richard going in?" when i knew that he was cheating on me. even my eldest son said, "mum, you're paranoid, he's not doing anything," because he'd spoken to his father who assured him he wasn't. i want to ask you — if i can — during your marriage, did he rape you? yes. yes, he did. there was an incident when we went to america as a family to stay with an old friend and his wife. we'd all been out that evening. and the friend grabbed me and kissed me. richard walked around the corner, grabbed me, took me into the bedroom, and raped me. i couldn't cry out because the boys were next door. i didn't know what to do, and i didn't sleep all night. and in the morning he

disappeared with the boys. and this was really... that was the time when i first tried to divorce him, but failed. i just felt totally humiliated. it was something that i found very difficult to forget. i was always nervous. he would continue to do that through our marriage. if i didn't want to go to bed with him, he'd make me. how many...? can i ask how many times he raped you? i can't say... many times. you've talked about your husband being unfaithful on multiple occasions. raping you on multiple occasions. belittling you, making cruel comments to you. taking your money from you. being an absolute. . . bastard. and yet, you couldn't

live without him. it's as though... he was my world. i adored him. i didn't know how i could cope without him, even though he could... because sometimes he could be so charming. and ijust felt that, you know, this was normal life, really. i didn't know that what was going on was abuse, and i did try counselling on several occasions, but that didn't help. i used to be very, very tearful. richard would ignore it if i cried. i can remember going to the doctor many times and crying there, but nobody seemed to be able to help me. you left him in 2009. yes. in one email that you sent in april 2010, you wrote, "i want to be with you, i'm sorry i left.

we are soulmates. we have been together so long. i can't see a future without you, you are my life. i love you". and you've just explained why you felt you weren't able to live without him. he replied, "i will consider your return only on these terms: when we go out together, it means together. this constant talking to strangers is rude and inconsiderate. we will agree to items in the home together, to give up smoking, to give up your constant interruptions when i am speaking". what did you think of those conditions? i'd agree to them. anything he said. you know, "how high do you want me tojump?". it meant that i could go back to him. but i lived on tenterhooks with him. i felt that anything i said would be scrutinised. i was very quiet. he said that we could come back together in three months‘ time.

it was like a probation period. i was allowed to see him once a week. and you had to behave. and i had to behave. in inverted commas. yes. and you... as you were trying to reconcile, that's when he got you to sign a postnuptial agreement. and it effectively said you would only get a certain amount of money should this end in divorce, and it contained various conditions that we've just talked about. yes. and it was very controlling. i look at that now and i don't understand why i wanted to sign it. but it was the only way i was going to get richard back. that was the day before you attacked him. i wonder what you recall about what happened on the day of his death. when i went over, he was sitting on the sofa, and he said he wanted his breakfast, even though it was mid—afternoon. and it was pouring with rain outside, so i rushed down to the local supermarket and bought some sausages and eggs and bacon,

and brought them back. then, when i came into the house, i noticed that the landline phone was on the sofa beside him, and it hadn't been there before. i'd felt that he wanted to get me out of the house for some reason. i took the phone without him seeing and dialled 1471, and i recognised the number of a woman that he was seeing. so it was going through my head all the time. you know, "what are your plans for me? are you going to just suddenly leave me and walk out on me?". i didn't know, my mind was just reeling. all these thoughts going through my head. and then... richard... i started cooking the breakfast, and richard was up on his computer. and i went up to tell him it was ready. and he minimised the screen. he came down and sat in the kitchen.

i gave him his food, and i asked him if i was going to see him the following day, and he said, "don't question me, don't question me". and what happened happened. i've no recollection of putting anything in my handbag, but i admit it must have been there. and... and you struck him with a hammer. i struck him with a hammer. yes. 18 times. i don't... i know that's been said, but itjust... everything is a blur, really, and ijust can't understand how i could have done something like that. it's not in my nature to do anything like that. you said you were reeling. what else was going on in your mind at that time? i just... everything was a blur, really. it was as though this wasn't me doing any of this. i loved richard and i wanted to be with him, and i killed the man i loved.

did he deserve to die? no. and i'm very sorry for what happened. i should've been a stronger person. i should have left him earlier. but i just couldn't. he made me so dependent on him. that deception of his, when you did 1471 and realised that it was the number of a woman that he had been seeing, and you thought you were potentially going to start a new life together in australia and the past would be the past, that deception, was that...? would you describe that as the last straw or not? i suppose looking back it probably was. ijust felt that i was being used, abused and this was just going to carry on and he was blatantly going to continue it in my face all the time.

ijust flipped. i suppose i did. i don't know. do you know why there was a hammer in your handbag? i don't remember putting it in there, but i accept i must have done. you were charged with murder. yes. you felt it should have been manslaughter. why in the original trial did no—one bring up the cruelty and the control your husband had exerted over you for decades? my original solicitors had told me quite clearly thatjuries don't like it if you speak ill of the dead. i know i didn't help myself, because when i took the stand i was just so nervous, i didn't know what was really going on. both my sons were questioned on the stand. they weren't asked the questions that they could give the answers to.

they came off, saying, "i wasn't allowed to say this, i wasn't allowed to say that. nobody asked me those questions". coercive control was only recognised in law in 2015. you were injail at this point... yeah. ..several years after the original trial. what do you know now about your mental health and your psychological state when you carried out the killing of your husband? i've had a number of years of therapy in prison, which has really helped me. i understand about gaslighting, i understand about what a person does who's controlling you. when it's happening to you, you don't realise what's happening. you don't understand it. you just know that your life is a total and utter misery. the way you've described your life with him, is it fair to say

you were treated effectively as a slave? yes, i was. you're in a situation that you can't get out of. you don't know how to get out of. you think it's the norm. with the help from the centre for women'sjustice, you overturned the murder conviction with new mental health diagnoses and by highlighting the coercive nature of the relationship with your husband. that was successful, but you were potentially facing another trial until the cps looked at independent psychiatric assessments and reduced the murder charge to manslaughter with diminished responsibility, which meant you were able to walk free, because you'd already served just over nine years in jail. how did you feel at that point? absolutely euphoric. it was as though this was happening to somebody else. i couldn't believe that after all these years that i would be free, because i thought i'd die in person. i walked out of the old bailey and it was surreal. i was able to be next

to my sons and i knew that i could now live a life. you served nine years injail for killing your husband. did you deserve to? i don't think i deserved to spend as long as i did in prison. i think if i'd been charged with manslaughter it would have been a lesser sentence. i walked free from court having served the full time. what were the risks in terms of you coming out? what kind of help were you looking for? i think had i not had a strong family surrounding me. if i had been somebody who was just released out into the open world, i don't think that i would have been able to cope very well. you're very conditioned in prison. it's a difficult place to be. i often felt i didn't fit in.

i'd keep myself to myself. i had a certain few people that i would talk to. but you don't tend to talk about your case. your two sons have stood by you. yes. what does that mean to you? everything, yep. i don't know what i'd have done without them. it's meant everything, their support. they've stood by me. they've lived my sentence with me. i've had some support, especially, you know, from james and david, and james' partnerjen, who's supported him and supported me. they've been my rock. do you still love your husband? i think what i love about richard is the ideal richard. the richard that i hoped that i would marry, that i hoped

would love me and take care of me. i think it's the idea of that is what i love. but i still miss him. i always will. because he was the love of my life. do you regret killing your husband? yes, i do. definitely. if there is someone watching who recognises the kind of coercive and controlling behaviour that you have described and they are in the middle of a relationship like that right now, what would you say to them? leave. talk to somebody. talk to a family member. i don't know where they can go for help. they need to talk to their doctor. the doctor can hopefully signpost them to someone who they can talk to. but they need to leave, because their life will then be a misery if they don't. but you tried to leave and you couldn't. i know.

it's very, very difficult to do that, but i think that for their sake and for the sake of their family, they should leave. some of the things you've described you have talked about in a matter—of—fact way. some may think that's because perhaps you don't care. what would you say to them? i'd say that it's the only way that i can look at this, as though it's about somebody else, not me, because it's just so distressing. and i do regret everything that happened and wish it hadn't happened. can i ask what the future holds for you now, do you think? well... i've got a grandchild. my first. congratulations. and i want to be involved in that. i want to speak out more and try and talk at conferences, seminars, and support people

who are in a similar situation to myself, and try and educate everybody. it's going to take time for people to listen, because they don't understand, they don't want to understand, but in the end i think they will. at least i hope they will. sally challen, thank you very much for talking to us today. thank you. some messages, one of your excess she killed him to save her own life and stayed the same reason. sally lived an intolerable and raised great sons. another reviewer says sally is a brave woman, no doubt the armchair judges sally is a brave woman, no doubt the armchairjudges will be over this but i'm glad your show makes domestic violence a regular feature. and if you need some

help or support, there are organisations and websites that can offer you advice and support. you can find them listed on the bbc‘s actionline website at bbc.co.uk/actionline it was the emmy awards in los angeles last night and british stars did really well. 0ur entertainment correspondent lizo mzimba is here. lizo take us through the big winners last night. it was an extraordinary night for british talent in front of and behind the camera. the baftas here celebrate talent, the emmy celebrate talent from all over the world, they chose to honour british talent, one person in particular, phoebe waller bridge, flea bag picking up a number of awards for its second series, she was in many ways the star, picking up was in many ways the star, picking up an award for acting, writing, outstanding comedy, fantastic night for her. also another show killing it, she is an executive producer, jody it, she is an executive producer, jody comber, british star winning

best actress but the person everyone was talking about was phoebe waller bridge who is the person of the moment and she took to the stage and spokein moment and she took to the stage and spoke in characteristic style. the reason that i do it is this! so it's made it all really worth it, guys. thank you so much. it's just really wonderful to know and reassuring that a dirty, pervy, angry, messed up woman reassuring that a dirty, pervy, angry, messed up woman can reassuring that a dirty, pervy, angry, messed up woman can make it to the emmys. thank you so much! 0livia colman didn't pick up and board for best supporting actress but what an evening, the ceremony talks about serious issues, people might remember michelle williams, the horror around the world when people discovered she was being paid

less for —— than her co—star mark wahlberg, and she won last night for another production she's been involved in, quinn virgin, she spoke about race and gender and equality. the next time a woman, especially a woman of colour, she stands to make 52 cents on the dollar compared to her white male counterpart, tells you what she needs in order to do herjob, listen to her. —— gwen verdon. lin and don gable, who had to live in a motorhome after being evicted from a home they once owned. research carried out by the national

housing federation which represents housing associations found that 3.6 million people are living in overcrowded homes and two and a half million people cannot afford their rent or mortgage. let's talk to lynn and don, living in that motor home after being evicted. and emily bird from the national housing federation. welcome to all of you, you owned your own home at one point but what happened? because of a failed business venture we had to sell the property so a friend purchased it and said we could stay there and cover the mortgage payments to stay there for life, basically. but in there for life, basically. but in the end, they wanted to sell it, didn't they? you had to wait until you are physically evicted before you are physically evicted before you could ask for help, is that right? that's right. we had no idea how to handle this type of thing, obviously. so things had to work through. which is why for a period

you ended up living in the motorhome. that's right. tell us what that was like for you, in particular. it was horrendous. normally you go on holiday, it's fine. but all the furniture and everything, we had to put into storage and we just didn't know what was going to happen. what was it like for you? quite difficult, very restricted area. and until we knew we had somewhere else to live, we didn't know how long it was going to last. that feeling of being in a very small space and not knowing how long it was going to last, does that add to the stress? yes, definitely. i suffer with stress anyway because of what's going on. so, yes, it added tremendously to the stress. this is just added tremendously to the stress. this isjust one added tremendously to the stress. this is just one story and there are many, emily, tell us more examples of people who are either being

evicted or in horrific accommodation. that's right, new research that is out today paints a picture for the first time of the true extent of the housing crisis that we are facing. so we know now that we are facing. so we know now that there are 8.4 million people across the country affected by the housing crisis in different ways. as people from all generations. living in all regions of england. all impacted by the housing crisis in different ways. for some people that's about living in overcrowded accommodation. for others, that's about living in poor quality accommodation, some people are living in what we might describe as hidden hassles, staying with friends or making do in ways thatjust aren't acceptable. and for others, it's simply, they just aren't acceptable. and for others, it's simply, theyjust cannot afford their rent or the mortgage. these are not small things for the people that we are talking about here. millions of people across the

country are having a significant impact on their ability to live their normal lives. you are now in private accommodation and you managed to find somewhere, how did you manage that? it wasjust through the agents and contacts. we searched, we were looking at three orfour searched, we were looking at three or four houses a week and in the end we managed to get one. how does that feel for you? from we managed to get one. how does that feelfor you? from my point we managed to get one. how does that feel for you? from my point of view it was extraordinary because i've got health problems at any rate. so i had to rely on my wife a lot. yes, but you are a team. definitely a team. emily, what needs to change, do you think? we've seen from this new research that we've done, there are 3.6 million people who can only afford to live in good quality housing, if that home is available

to them for social rent. so we really need to see continued investment in social housing in order to deliver those homes. we are talking about £128 order to deliver those homes. we are talking about £12.8 billion every year for the next ten years in order to be able to deliver that so housing associations, we stand ready to work with the government to do that in partnership. ok. thank you all very much for coming in. bbc newsroom live is next, have a good day, back tomorrow at 10am. good morning. the weather takes an autumnal turn as we go through this week, some wet and windy weather on the way, but for now, it's actually fairly decent out there across most parts of the uk, sunshine in kent

from our weather watcher there but it's towards the south—west we see cloud increasing and rain pushing its way into south—west england, wales, northern ireland throughout today. strengthening wind here but for northern and eastern areas it will stay largely fine and dry, some sunny spells, maximum temperature is 18-21d, sunny spells, maximum temperature is 18—21d, lower than yesterday, with 28 celsius in parts of eastern england but through tonight the rain continuing to push northwards, behind it, further outbreaks of heavy rain moving through the night, quite and mild night but throughout tuesday, heavy rain spreading to the east, some thunderstorms mixed in, further south and west for the showers moving in, some strong winds down towards the south—west of the uk. maximum temperatures tomorrow about 17—19d. bye for now.

you're watching bbc newsroom live. it's11am and these are the main stories this morning: all thomas cook flights are grounded — after the world's oldest tour operator collapses. it is deeply distressing to me that it has not been possible to save one of the most—loved brands in travel. more than 150,000 holiday—makers are left stranded — triggering a huge repatriation effort. others have had holidays cancelled. we have looked forward this to a long time, had their wedding injuly so it has been months waiting for this. totally