hello, it's wednesday, it's10am, i'm victoria derbyshire at westminster. good morning. the prime minister is touching down in the next few minutes, flying home to face an unprecedented political crisis. another one. behind me, mps are returning to parliament. two weeks ago they left after, the government shut it down. but the supreme court decided that suspension didn't actually ever happen in law. so, what next? borisjohnson doesn't have the air of a man on the brink of resignation... what was your reaction when you heard the uk supreme court decision? i had no reaction, ijust asked boris, it's another day in the office, he is a professional. just another day in the office. tomorrow

is another day in parliament! laughter other government ministers are defiant too. no apology is required for breaking the law... i don't think that the government should apologise for having a strong domestic agenda. i don't think we should apologise also for seeking to advance our exit from the european union. i don't think the government should apologise also for saying that we are attempting to honour the democratic will of the british people. what's the opposition parties‘ plan? jeremy corbyn says mrjohnson should resign, but isn't going to call for a vote of no confidence today. the supreme court have said that he acted illegally, and parliament has reopened. this is a constitutional problem of huge proportions. it isn't a problem... and that's why i called for the prime minister to resign, because of the way he has been found wanting, badly wanting, by the supreme court.

hello, welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning. we are live from westminster. what do you make of the latest political crisis? is the pm right to say he disagrees with teh supreme court? should he resign or stick it out? and what about brexit...? less likely to happen than ever or could this galavanise parliament into voting through a deal? so much to talk about the many guests from all sides joining us this morning. first, joanna gosling has the news. democrats in the us congress have announced a formal impeachment inquiry into president trump. mr trump is accused of violating the constitution and betraying his oath of office over allegations that he spoke to a foreign leader about investigating his potential opponent in the 2020 presidential race, joe biden. mr trump has called the claims "garbage". the operation to ring home holiday—makers who booked with thomas cook continues today. more than 70 flights,

carrying 16,500 people, are scheduled for today, to bring some of the 150,000 people stranded when the travel firm collapsed. some customers trying to buy replacement flights say they are facing prices almost triple the usual rate. prison officers have regained control of a high—security prison in worcestershire. specialist prison guards were deployed to long lartin after officers came under attack from inmates throwing pool balls. one member of staff needed hospital treatment. a 43—year—old woman has died after being attacked by two dogs at a house in widnes. the woman was treated at the scene in graham road by paramedics but later died after receiving serious injuries. her next of kin have been informed. a new study suggests that its safer for a mother who's had a previous caesarean delivery to stick with having a surgical procedure with any future births. a study by the university of oxford found that women who attempted a natural birth after a caesarean, were more likely to suffer complications. experts say mums—to—be should be offered a choice of how

to deliver when possible. one of world's biggest toy companies has launched a "gender inclusive" doll. mattel say the doll has been designed to allow children to style it with short or long hair, or in a skirt, trousers, or both. the company said they wanted to create a doll line "free of labels". the duke and duchess of sussex have introduced their son archie to archbishop desmond tutu. the royal couple are on day three of a 10 day visit to southern africa with 4 month old archie. prince harry will travel to botswana, angola and malawi over the coming days while meghan will stay in south africa. that is the summary, back to you, victoria. thank you very much. good morning, welcome to a cool and damp westminster. injust an hour and a half's time, mps will be back in the commons, after that ruling by the supreme court yesterday that the prime minister's decision to suspend parliament was unlawful. borisjohnson has cut

short his visit to a un summit in new york and is due to land shortly at heathrow. there'll be no pmqs today, which is what usually happens on a wednesday. although, the prime minister might give a statement to mps later. instead, the day has been set aside for "urgent questions". we have various people to speak to. let's speak to boris johnson loyalist conservative mp sir geoffrey clifton—brown, who is treasurer of the committee that represents rank and file tory mps. lord heseltine, former conservative deputy prime minister, who was told he could no longer sit as a conservative in the house of lords, after urging people to vote liberal democrat in the european election. he's an opponent of brexit. chairman of the brexit pary richard tice. welcome all of you, thank you for coming on the programmer. should borisjohnson coming on the programmer. should boris johnson resign for coming on the programmer. should borisjohnson resign for behaving unlawfully? certainly not. until the supreme courtjudgment certainly not. until the supreme court judgment yesterday, everyone had assumed he was behaving

lawfully, including the speaker, otherwise he wouldn't have allowed parliament to prorogue. i don't think he should resign. there have been plenty of cases in the past where the courts have made a judgment that change the law, this is one of those occasions. no is one of those occasions. n0 consequences, is one of those occasions. no consequences, the prime minister brea ks no consequences, the prime minister breaks the law, no consequences? there are plenty of consequences, he will have to pay due regard to the decision and we will have to move on to the queen's speech, try and get a deal in the european union, if we can't get a deal, we will have to see if we can leave on the 31st of 0ctober. if we can't do that, we will have to try and get into a general election. at the moment, the whole situation is in complete stalemate. can other people behave unlawfully if it gets them what they want? i don't think this is a correct interpretation of the situation. it was awful until the supreme court judgment. the supreme court made its judgment. the supreme court made its judgment and the government will now have to act accordingly as a result

of thatjudgment. have to act accordingly as a result of that judgment. would have to act accordingly as a result of thatjudgment. would you expect him to apologise when he returns to the house? i don't think he will apologise i think he did what he thought was right at the time to stop now he's been proved it's wrong, he will have to act accordingly faster i don't think it needs to apologise. should boris johnson resign, lord heseltine?m normal circumstances, the prime minister would have resigned but boris won't resign. should he? it's a different issue. in normal circumstances, a prime minister humiliated in this way, would go. but boris is not like that. his strategy since he became prime minister is that of hedge down —— my grey head down, charge, bowler in a china shop. 0ur of the election process was to get rid of parliament. brecht said and the effect on the constitution. the law lords have dealt with the effect on the constitution, in my view quite

rightly they have said that in our constitution, parliament is sovereign. that has always been my belief. i believe john bercow is a speaker who has shown exactly the same instinct and doris fell foul of that. it's not in his character to apologise or do anything of that sort. he will keep charging. what do you think of that strategy?” sort. he will keep charging. what do you think of that strategy? i think it's unlikely to deliver what he wants because large numbers of conservatives are haemorrhaging to the lib dems. 0n the other side, he has the brexit party who i think will not go away. they certainly won't. i doubt he can do a deal with them. my own guess is we are in for a long period of indecision without an overall command, majority in parliament. what do you think boris johnson should do? the reality is boris has lost control of events and the only way he can get control is

to have a vote of no confidence in the house, to say we now need a general election. he calls a vote of no confidence in himself? the labour party are petrified of an election, the lib dems don't want one. what boris should do is say, let's get an election, you have to change the fixed—term parliaments act, so you have to have a quick one or two day bill. challenge the other side. why won't you go to the people? the way to do that is to say, let's have a vote of no—confidence in the next few days and have an election in the first fortnight of november. would it bea first fortnight of november. would it be a good look? under the fixed—term parliaments act he can't do that, only the leader of the 0pposition is able to call under the fixed terms parliament act. what we could do is try to put a one line bill through saying notwithstanding the fixed term parliaments out there will be an election on a saturday. the problem with that is we have to get it voted through both houses. that is fairly precarious. the

effect is the same, will parliament allow their stalemate to be decided by the people or is it so frightened of the people, itjust by the people or is it so frightened of the people, it just wants to carry on with this stasis? the european union don't know who they should be negotiating with, boris johnson orjeremy corbyn. the great trouble is, what all the election—year people want is to confuse the law and order right wing agenda with brexit and therefore get brexit through by substitute. parliament won't let that happen. let me ask you on that point, are you happy with the language of the leader of the house call of commons, he called it a constitutional coup, the ruling by the supreme court?|j the ruling by the supreme court?” am surprised by jacob the ruling by the supreme court?” am surprised byjacob because he has always set himself up as a model of good behaviour and manners. always set himself up as a model of good behaviourand manners. in always set himself up as a model of good behaviour and manners. in the la st good behaviour and manners. in the last month or so, we have seen the most amazing lapse injudgment lounging on the benches of the

commons, now talking about a constitutional coup and this is a tory, someone who believes in the high principles of conservativism, talking about a constitutional coup when he has lost a legal case. if i was arraigned on some sort of criminal charge in the courts and thenl criminal charge in the courts and then i said, of course, it's a personal vendetta. people would laugh and scorn. yet we have the leader of the house of commons talking about the unanimousjudgment of 11 judges, calling it talking about the unanimousjudgment of "judges, calling it a constitutional coup. what do you think of that, a lapse ofjudgment? ido think of that, a lapse ofjudgment? i do think it is a lapse ofjudgment onjacob's behalf i do think it is a lapse ofjudgment on jacob's behalf and i do think it is a lapse ofjudgment onjacob's behalf and like lord heseltine, i'm surprised he said that. i think as a result of 24—hour since thejudgment, that. i think as a result of 24—hour since the judgment, i that. i think as a result of 24—hour since thejudgment, i think that. i think as a result of 24—hour since the judgment, i think cooler mines will prevail. michael gove was very careful what he said this morning about criticising the supreme court. we are the party of law and order and we will accept and uphold the judgment. you say you are but how dangerous is that language?

that is suggesting that those judges are not independent.” that is suggesting that those judges are not independent. i am very clear and the government, from what michael gove had said this morning, is very clear that they are independent and the judgment will be upheld. and will be respected. the big national newspapers that are brexit supporters are all now using language or implications to undermine the independence of the judiciary. i want to ask you about a colleague of yours, are brexit party mp, she said do we know how many of thesejudges mp, she said do we know how many of these judges voted leave? mp, she said do we know how many of thesejudges voted leave? surely, if judges wish to politicise their role, they should be opened up to public scrutiny. do you support that? we are in extraordinary times. do you support that?” that? we are in extraordinary times. do you support that? ijust read what she wrote. i have no context of what she wrote. i have no context of what she wrote. i have no context of what she was saying. i quite like the fact that the judges formed the unanimous view and we accept that,

as michaeljust said it is the supreme court, what we have to do is move on. what the voters are interested in is how do we move on from here? people are not interested in the parliamentary games how do we get a general election so people can have their voice, speak and then we can move on? this is your former organisation that you've founded, leave dot eu. many years ago and i haven't been involved since 2016. enemies of the people? nothing to do with me. do you condemn it? that was three years ago. the climate in which... i welcome the fact that they have a unanimous decision. the way the wall law works as it consta ntly way the wall law works as it constantly works with progression. it won't happen again, move on, have a general election. i want to ask about the future if i may, what is the way out of this for boris johnson? the best ways to get a

deal. i think there are signs from leo varadkar that attitudes are changing towards the northern ireland backstop. i was with a high—tech company yesterday that has an it solution to the northern ireland customs problem. i think that the best thing boris johnson can do now is concentrate on getting that deal. if we can't get a deal, we will have to see what happens on the 31st of october. if the european union agreed to an extension, i think the parliament law will have to be upheld and then we will have to be upheld and then we will have to deal with the extension when it comes. sorry, let me question you on that, borisjohnson has said he will not ask for an extension for stop tell me how that works? he may not ask for an extension, it may be that the european union offer us an extension. then he would be in a very difficult position to refuse that. the problem with offering an extension as they might do with all sorts of terms attached. is that how he gets round it, he doesn't physically ask it, just intimate he needs to offer it? he has got to ask

for it, palmer lemon has legislated. there is no question, it is a matter of law. —— there is no question, it is a matter of law. — — parliament there is no question, it is a matter of law. —— parliament has legislated. is the conservative prime minister going to take the judges on another battle having just lost one? parliament has a responsibility to realise this has to go toa responsibility to realise this has to go to a general election was that if the opposition declined that, i think the fury of the people will grow and grow. i entirely agree, we have to get out of this stalemate. businesses are suffering in this country, they need a positive and known way forward. nothing like as much as businesses will suffer if we leave the european union. nonsense! it's a separate debate. we are where we are. it suggested parliament will solve this problem... let's have a general election. no. you don't agree on democracy any more. he used to bea agree on democracy any more. he used to be a conservative. the cause of all our problems is the referendum.

the way to change the referendum is to have another one, which deals specifically with this issue. you don't believe in democracy?” thought you thought the referendum is the greatest act of democracy of all time. just listen, i believe in having a second referendum. general election. we won't have a general election. we won't have a general election. we won't have a general election because it will be borisjohnson bringing in the police and the health service to try and get brexit through. the truth of the matter is... that is democracy. parliament is divided exactly as the country is divided. the general election will not solve that problem, it will lead, in my view, to another hung parliament. the way to another hung parliament. the way to deal with the issue is to go back on the fundamental of the referendum, ask that question, do you want to leave or stay? that may not help. at that time, it was a

pack of lies to justify... not help. at that time, it was a pack of lies to justify. .. the result of the referendum... it was a lie. in the light of present circumstances, we have to put it back to the people. exactly, a general election. are an unelected pier not accepting the will of 17.4 million people. he only wants to acce pt million people. he only wants to accept it when it goes your way.” am saying, have a rerun. change is coming, lord heseltine we have to pause there, thank you for dear time, gentlemen. thank you for your many messages. an illustration of the divisions around the country. nat on twitter wants a general election, saying let's get parliament sorted by removing all the undemocratic mp's. the supreme court said it wasn't about brexit, we all know that is exactly what that court case was about! who was lying!" pete has tweeted — "i'd like the supreme court to rule

on the legality of blocking the lawful 2016 referendum result by remain mps." kevin writes: "we leave on the 31st october 2019 with or without a deal." stjohn says: "in the tory party, those that wield the stick need to out him..he's embarrassed the country, the queen, the tory party and its supporters beyond the pale." and on twitter, ‘eager to he says: "the entire cabinet should resign they have no respect for the law in this land or the queen now rees—mogg is saying it's a coup these people have no respect for anyone or anything." borisjohnson due to land at heathrow from new york any moment now, we are told. whether he will hotfoot it straight to number 10 or the commons, who knows. let's talk about today and then the bigger picture. here's our political guru norman smith. good morning. let's talk about what borisjohnson will do when he gets here. when he gets here, i imagine

here. when he gets here, i imagine he will make a statement to mp5. that will be a moment of huge drama, it is the theatre at the moment, what does he look like, chastened, contrite, does he look like he has received a mauling or come in full of bravado, sticking by his existing strategy, toughing it out, i don't have anything to apologise for, i haven't done anything wrong? i think everything we have heard so far is this will be borisjohnson as we know him. he won't come in on bended knee. he will say, ok, i've heard thejudges, i disagree, knee. he will say, ok, i've heard thejudges, idisagree, i knee. he will say, ok, i've heard thejudges, i disagree, iwould knee. he will say, ok, i've heard thejudges, i disagree, i would like an election, i would like a queen's speech. in other words, an election, i would like a queen's speech. in otherwords, i'm an election, i would like a queen's speech. in other words, i'm going to carry on down my strategy for brexit. it is going to be very difficult because it is hard to see how he can do any of the things he wa nts to how he can do any of the things he wants to do because he no longer has a parliamentary majority for doing anything. do you think you will call for a third vote on having a general election, knowing what the numbers are? i do. to symbolically put up

headlights, the fact that the opposition are in his view scared of the people. they dare not let the people have their say. it is hard to see what else he can do. that is his sort of core mantra. he could prorogue parliament again to get a green speech? not sure that's so easy, if he was to try and prorogue parliament the courts would say we have told you once, we won't tell you again, you don't have a good reason for proroguing parliament. it's passable if you got to the thursday before the queen's speech, he could go back and say, really, obviously, it is just for a he could go back and say, really, obviously, it isjust for a queen's speech now. that would be right up against the queen's speech. the problem if you have a queen's speech is does any of it get through parliament? he has all these brand—new shiny bills of 20,000 more police officers, more money for the nhs designed to sort of ba pre—election shopping list, but now we can't have the election... but will any of that get the commons? can you pass any legislation? the

basic problem is he has become a political punchbag for parliament. he isjust swinging political punchbag for parliament. he is just swinging there, political punchbag for parliament. he isjust swinging there, unable political punchbag for parliament. he is just swinging there, unable to do anything, taking hit after hit after hit. we could be in for an extraordinary three or four weeks, when not much happens over there and we had just left with borisjohnson stranded, drifting towards the 0ctober stranded, drifting towards the october 31 deadline. thank you, norman. al—anon e—mail says should boris johnson called for a second in—out referendum? this called for a second in—out referendum ? this would called for a second in—out referendum? this would stymiejeremy corbyn from dilating the bow to the people. he wants the vote to be remain ora people. he wants the vote to be remain or a wishy—washy leave. an in—out referendum is the correct source in—out referendum is the correct source of action. another says, the government should be accountable by raising a vote of in going to a general election to stop if anyone thinks a completely unelected government of unity is acceptable, think again for ofjulian facebook says boris johnson think again for ofjulian facebook

says borisjohnson needs to resign just that he's just pushing his own career. i would like a cross party to sort brexit, made of each party for that melanie says, i don't think boris should resign which i never thought i would say about any conservative as i always voted labour. we the british people should be given the chance to have our say by having a general election. democracy, what a joke! let's talk to the shadow secretary for housing, john healey. good morning to you. good morning. de one boris johnson good morning to you. good morning. de one borisjohnson to be prime minister? no. i want jeremy de one borisjohnson to be prime minister? no. iwantjeremy corbyn to be the prime minister and labour to be the prime minister and labour to be the prime minister and labour to be in government. i want us to bring their big changes be discussed at our conference this week in the country needs. identical for a vote in no confidence and get rid of him? we can't trust boris johnson. in no confidence and get rid of him? we can't trust borisjohnson. we passed legislation to make sure britain can't get out with no deal. in normal circumstances with a normal prime minister, we would be able to rely on the fact he would

abide by the law but he has broken the law. i think you have to pinch yourself to think about the consequences of that. if you or i or anyone watching broke the law, there would be consequences. if we did it at work, we would be sacked for gross misconduct. he must resign and he must today come to parliament to explain why he broke the law, where he misled the queen and the public about suspending parliament and, more importantly... the ruling never suggested he misled the queen, parliament and government. theyjust said there wasn't a reasonable justification for proroguing it for that length of time. if you don't wa nt that length of time. if you don't want him as prime minister, you don't have confidence in him, why don't have confidence in him, why don't you tell people honestly as well that you want him to fail, to deliver brexit by the 31st of 0ctober because it helps you as an opposition party, why not be honest about it? our first priority, we said this in the 2017 election, is

to stop the deep damage no brexit would bring. you did that with the emergency legislation? and it ought to be enough but we have to get to the point, because of what has happened and because you can't trust borisjohnson to happened and because you can't trust boris johnson to follow the law, we have to get to the point where the risk of a no—deal brexit is removed and then we must have a general election. so if boris johnson, sorry to interrupt, asks for an extension today, would you then support a vote of no confidence? legislation gives him a chance to do what he says he is doing, negotiating a new deal with europe, gives him the deadline of the 19th of october. if he can't get a new deal and bring that back and get it through parliament, he must ask for an extension so britain is then protected from the damage of crashing out with a deal. then we needn't general election. how long... we have to have a government and at the moment we have chaos and crisis. you keep saying we need a general election but you don't want

to facilitate one. how long will you keep this conservative government in powerfor, keep this conservative government in power for, how many weeks? until we know the risk of britain crashing out with no deal at the end of 0ctober out with no deal at the end of october is removed. by what, the 19th of october? that is set out in the legislation, that is the deadline for him to do what he says he's planning to do, get a deal and get it through parliament. if he fails, he must ask for an extension so we can have a general election and get this sorted out. you will know that to some voters what has happened in the last 24 hours looks like an establishment remain stitch up, that it is about thwarting brexit. you might disagree with that but that is the narrative for some voters who are absolutely outraged that people are trying to stop boris johnson delivering brexit?m that people are trying to stop boris johnson delivering brexit? if this was about brexit we wouldn't have nigel farage calling for boris johnson to resign, just likejeremy corbyn and labour. so it it is not

about thwarting brexit? it's about parliament doing its properjob as it has done for centuries, elected mps, calling those in power to account for themselves on behalf of the public in parliament. what progress is he making with this negotiation? what plans has he got to prevent the chaos if we did crash out with a no deal? first of all today, come to parliament, explain himself. explain why he acted unlawfully and whether he will resign. do you want an apology? i wa nt resign. do you want an apology? i wantan resign. do you want an apology? i want an apology to the country for being misled about suspending parliament. i think the country is owed an apology. the ruling didn't say he had misled people but anyway. 0k. say he had misled people but anyway. ok. thank you very much thank you. thank you for your messages. there are so many, bear with me. i will get to them now. right, boris johnson should resign and a government of national unity should be formed. if we were in normal

times, mrjohnson would have resigned immediately. another, this situation is ridiculous, boris was ill—advised by the attorney general and not to be blamed for the decision of the supreme court judges. he should resign, no one died, move on. elaine said the pm should not resign from his strongest one we have had in recent years. why should he resign for doing what the people one question but darren said, great news, we can break the law without punishment now and don't even have to apologise for our actions. see you later, i'm off down the local cash machine with my trusty sledgehammer. keep them coming in. send us an e—mail or message us on twitter. borisjohnson, i'm boris johnson, i'm told, borisjohnson, i'm told, hasjust landed at heathrow, cutting short his trip to the un in new york to come back here to talk to parliament or do it every needs to do. so, it was a historic judgement yesterday but, in practical terms, what has actually changed? let's talk to labour mp jess phillips who has campaigned for the new domestic abuse bill, which was dropped when parliament was suspended but could now

potentially continue its path to becoming law. in terms of brexit, she wants a second referendum. mep alexandra philipps is from the brexit party and is happy to leave with no deal. ed vaizey is now an independent mp, after he was chucked out of the conservative party. he wants to leave but is against no deal. and independent mp frank field — he used to be labour — but wants to leave the eu and voted for theresa may's withdrawal agreement three times. good morning. jess phillips coming about, what will you do with this time? as you said in your intro, i will be spending this time looking at how we can progress the domestic abuse bill, which will have dropped but now the justices have done us a favour and the bill is now back on the books and i will be working to make sure that things are like cross—examination of victims by their perpetrators in the family courts can no longer go on in our country. do you need a certain amount of time for that to be law? can you do it? who knows if the a nswer to can you do it? who knows if the answer to that. yes, we need a certain amount of time, you need

committees and many bills to go through parliament. but if there is a will in that place, there is a ways away. we will be seeking a number of different ways to make sure at least second reading happens, so that if parliament falls again, for whatever reason, and there are so many different reasons, that it can then be restarted. alex, happy to see it back in action? boris overplayed his hand, i don't think i know what they gained. the bigger strategy is it gave people who want to reverse the democratic election result and ability to say we have moral high ground on this issue for some let's get back to work. what i would say is now we need to change who sits on those green benches. brexit is being delivered. it's been three years and i think unless there is a shake—up of representation in that parliament of representation in that parliament of people who do want to deliver the referendum result, we will be stuck in limbo. are you happy someone like jess phillips and others will get this domestic abuse bill into legislation? yes absolutely. i think

it's important the country is governed and governed well and important matters shouldn't be taken off the table because brexit still being laboriously fought over. good to see mps back at work ijust wish more of them were people we wanted to honour the 2016 result. and that is the issue, isn't it? many voters wa nt to is the issue, isn't it? many voters want to see the referendum result delivered. iam i am pleased alex is pleased i am back. my voted to honour the result of the referendum. he would have been out for six months now had my fellow m ps been out for six months now had my fellow mps voted with me. if conservatives, labour had voted, we would have been out of the eu.” conservatives, labour had voted, we would have been out of the eu. i am more than willing to vote for a deal as long as it goes back to the people. the people have decided. not on the deal. not even this prime

minister has voted for it. he has not pulled his finger out to bring the brexit deal back to parliament. frankly, he would rather play games with the country. fair enough, ed voted for it, frank voted for it. i am not going to vote for the brexit deal to make constituents poorer. parliament has said full to long what it wants and not what it does not want. no deal is the only option. i would not want. no deal is the only option. iwould rather not want. no deal is the only option. i would rather boris had not suspended parliament and had generally gone for a deal, brought it back. if parliament will not vote for it i can countenance a no deal. at the moment i will do anything i can to stop a no deal. maybe we can use this time back in parliament for backbenchers to bring back a deal. borisjohnsonjust

backbenchers to bring back a deal. borisjohnson just getting off backbenchers to bring back a deal. boris johnson just getting off the plane at heathrow, coming back from new york. what you want him to do now? i want him to get the deal and lam now? i want him to get the deal and i am confident he will get the deal. there is a well in parliament now. is there? there is a change. that deal will be theresa may's deal with some new additions, it will be in a tin with a different label but essentially it will be the deal that has been rejected three times. mrs may will win this and how deal will be delivered. that is interesting, when you put it like that. when i have some of the things the labour party wa nts ? have some of the things the labour party wants? -- will it have? things need to be strengthened. the supreme courtjudgment need to be strengthened. the supreme court judgment is of need to be strengthened. the supreme courtjudgment is of profound importance to the way we operate.

discretionary powers are government in the past always exercise just by itself now has to appear before the court of reasonableness and, if not by the supreme court will rule against them. boris johnson walking down the steps of the plane. we cannot compete with that. i am sure that will be delivered and then you had norman smith on earlier. i think we will prorogue again. he will grovel to the queen and say, i hope this one is legal. it is friday night and you are doing a queen's speech next monday or tuesday. what would be the point of that? the prime minister is not without ability and that queen's speech will be packed with the giveaways he has promised. he cannot get anything

through. if it is about making sure you get better policing birkenhead, a better health service in birkenhead, contracts which deny workers any dignity. i do not think there will be a problem getting that through. you pulled a face. i think frank is right about the policing birkenhead and the police in birmingham. i'm not going to vote against apple that the idea is that borisjohnson is against apple that the idea is that boris johnson is going against apple that the idea is that borisjohnson is going to give workers better rights and protections is optimistic on frank's part. we will test that. we will have a chance to amend. as the supreme court has ruled, and this is significant, it has strengthened the power of mps against the executive and that won't actually be lost easily. isn't it nice to be debating domestic issues? it is a brief interlude. borisjohnson

domestic issues? it is a brief interlude. boris johnson returning to his official car. do you still wa nt to to his official car. do you still want to do an electoral pact with borisjohnson want to do an electoral pact with boris johnson and the want to do an electoral pact with borisjohnson and the conservatives? 0ne borisjohnson and the conservatives? one thing that is alarming me is the idea of that dreaded deal coming back and getting through. it does not deliver on brexit. we are speaking to uk representatives and thatis speaking to uk representatives and that is what borisjohnson will do. he will put lipstick on a surrender treaty. this is the sort of deal at the country would only sign if they had been defeated in war. it shackles us. the talk of war and surrender... all i think about when i think about whatever deal is, i'm going to think about what is going to happen to car workers at jaguar land rover in my constituency. when you are talking about war, some of us are thinking about reality. what iam us are thinking about reality. what i am trying to say is that deal binds us for the future. it is not a level playing field. the deal is a

borisjohnson cake level playing field. the deal is a boris johnson cake and level playing field. the deal is a borisjohnson cake and eat it deal. we are still having the same arguments. we are not. three of us who vote in parliament are all agreed. we will have a deal. the deal will get us out and then there will be amendments made. 0nce deal will get us out and then there will be amendments made. once we are out, what the treaty says, it would be like french republics, they come and go. 0nce be like french republics, they come and go. once we are safely out, vauxhall workers in my constituency, jaguar workers, car vauxhall workers in my constituency, jaguarworkers, carworkers, providing we can protect their supply chains in this transitional period, then we can start to make major changes. if that happens, it is the end of the brexit party. major changes. if that happens, it is the end of the brexit partym we managed to deliver brexit i would be absolutely delighted. it does not deliver on what people can painful.

it is simple, we have obvious contingent —— contingency plans. it is simple, we have obvious contingent -- contingency plans. the ones in whitehall clearly say... there are vauxhall workers?m ones in whitehall clearly say... there are vauxhall workers? if i can finish a sentence, you might have something a little dated to you. i doubt it. don't be rude! 45,000 people in your constituency voted to leave and you do not want their voices to be heard all their votes counted. noted for me after the referendum. on the ticket of honouring the result of the referendum, which you don't want to do. in my constituency, i am sure people will happily tell you how they feel about me. theirjobs matter much more to me than my own

job. if they don't like what i am doing, have every right... you think it matters more than their opinion. people don't know who jess it matters more than their opinion. people don't know whojess phillips is and what she represents. the idea that people do not know my views is laughable. we are in an endgame to protect well—being of constituents and deliver on the brexit deal and we will do better. do you have faith that boris johnson can we will do better. do you have faith that borisjohnson can do that? do you have faith he can?” that borisjohnson can do that? do you have faith he can? i have thousands of constituents aborting my position which is to get out with a deal. it is a fair point to say these mps do talk to their constituents. talking to people in brussels, it alarms me greatly, the

content of that deal alarms me greatly. thank you. i appreciate it. we are going to talk to some more guests, voters. any second now. i had loads of messages. patsy says, boris has no intention of getting a deal and if he does baits will be split between the conservatives and the brexit party. —— votes. why did he remove the whip from the conservative mps? john says that when i did something unlawful, i was sentence and got a criminal record, so could borisjohnson. another says that why can't they let borisjohnson get on with it instead of hindering him? why are the mps against the voters? what is the point in voting if our views do not matter? the more trouble they cause for borisjohnson matter? the more trouble they cause for boris johnson makes matter? the more trouble they cause for borisjohnson makes it harder for borisjohnson makes it harder for him to concentrate on a brexit

deal keep going, boris, the country is behind you. ayo adesina is a computer programmer from hackney in london. you may recognise him from the tv show "hunted." hello. you won it didn't you? champion. my kids love that programme. he voted to leave but has since changed his mind and is campaigning to remain. jothames is a race—horse breeder and conservative memberfrom ely in cambridgeshire who voted for the brexit party in the european elections and says thejudges are biased. hello to you. good morning. journalism student finvola dunphy is a labour member from liverpool who is delighted with the supreme court ruling and furniture manufacturer rachel waring is a conservative party member from norfolk who thinks a general election is the only way to solve this stalemate. well can. thank you for coming onto the programme. i wanted to reflect on the last 24 hours and how you are feeling about it. i am quite

relieved the judges have come to this decision because, if they did not come to this decision, it would meana not come to this decision, it would mean a future prime minister could basically shut down parliament for as long as he wants. how do you feel about that? very frustrated. democracy is democracy and it has been demolished by members of parliament. what about the ruling of thejudges? parliament. what about the ruling of the judges? i do parliament. what about the ruling of thejudges? i do not think it parliament. what about the ruling of the judges? i do not think it should have gone to the judges in the first place. as it did, what do you make of the ruling? not very happy about it. there are nine judges who were remainers. are you suggesting they we re remainers. are you suggesting they were not independent? you have to think. if you went to court and you had to have a jury, you could say, i do not want him on thejury had to have a jury, you could say, i do not want him on the jury because i know do not want him on the jury because iknow him, do not want him on the jury because i know him, he is a labour man and

he does not like conservatives and you get 12 fair—minded people on the jury. if the ruling had gone the other way would you be questioning the independence of those judges? when the high court ruled, where you are saying they were not independent? are you saying they we re independent? are you saying they were influenced? i would be dubious. 0ur judiciary were influenced? i would be dubious. 0urjudiciary is one of the most independent judiciary 0urjudiciary is one of the most independentjudiciary is in the whole world. to start saying that they are basically somehow, you know, taking one side or another because of their own political views isa because of their own political views is a very dangerous thing. it is very dangerous for us to go down that route. government ministers are even insinuating the fact that judges are not independent is ridiculous. i agree. the notion that this is some sort of a political coup is absurd. they were also

criticised by their own conservative collea g u es criticised by their own conservative colleagues earlier. if we start to question the integrity of the supreme justices in this country, there were 11 of them. they are an independent body who are there to hold people to account, hold politicians to account, just like the media. before nigel farage and jacob rees—mogg start questioning then, they need to look at their own. who told you nine of the judges we re own. who told you nine of the judges were remain? i read it in the press. do you believe everything you read in the press? me? i don't. at the end of the day, everybody standing here knows why boris johnson prorogued parliament, it was because a brexit. for people to basically stand up and defend borisjohnson,

it isa stand up and defend borisjohnson, it is a really disgusting situation with this country where basically the prime minister can lie panache can mislead parliament click and drag the queen into doing something thatis drag the queen into doing something that is essentially unlawful and we all throw our hands up in the air and say it is boris. i personally think he should resign. let's ask rachel wearing. do you want to see boris resign? identity do anything he dragged the queen into doing anything. it is the first time the question has been brought to court. ——ido question has been brought to court. —— i do not want to see boris resign andi —— i do not want to see boris resign and i do not think he dragged the queen. you have to recognise that previous prime ministers, who have behaved in the same way have not been litigated against in the call and that is something everybody has to bear in mind, you had to respect the ruling of thejudges to bear in mind, you had to respect the ruling of the judges and to bear in mind, you had to respect the ruling of thejudges and i am confident borisjohnson well. we are ata

confident borisjohnson well. we are at a stalemate and i want to speak for people like me, business people specifically, sna operators who bring more than 50% of what comes into the treasury each year. our voices are not heard. maybe that is because the prime minister said, f business. all of the international businesses that do not pay taxes into this country, i can understand why borisjohnson into this country, i can understand why boris johnson get into this country, i can understand why borisjohnson get so into this country, i can understand why boris johnson get so frustrated that their voice is the voice that is continually heard. 0ur businesses pay the most into our economies. 0ur voices not heard and it needs to be had because we contribute more than anyone else. no taxes offshore. we are grateful you are on this programme making these points. what is damaging your business now? what

is damaging your business now? what is damaging, we had credit score ratings that are being reduced because companies are all downgrading our risk factor because of supposedly no deal, theoretical concerns. these are not facts. these are theories and i know they had to base things on there. when we are competing, iam participating in an international tender at the moment andi international tender at the moment and i have to have my company competing against other companies around the world and we are affected by this continual delay. we have to bring it to a close, it has to happen. i am confident borisjohnson and his team are trying harder than anyone to date to make it happen. i would like a deal that i am quite prepared for no deal. there is nothing in that yellow hana paper at all that is scary. people do not like change. —— yellowhammer. people do not like change and that is what

this is all about. if you relied on medicines you might find that document worrying. you can get the medicines in. bring them in in advance that you have extra in stock. what do you think businesses doing? what people are asking is, why can't the health secretary stand up why can't the health secretary stand up and say no one will die as a result of no—deal brexit? my daughter is epileptic. at one point she was having their teeth it a day. if her medication was packed, for whatever reason, she could be in very big trouble. she is a five—year—old child. and matt hancock come and tell me there would bea hancock come and tell me there would be a cast iron guarantee your daughter's supplies would not be... no one is going to say... you are admitting there is a possibility, however small, that my daughter will

not be able to get her medication due to brexit. why can't he say, due to brexit everyone will get their medication. we are talking about life—saving medication. medication. we are talking about life-saving medication. life-saving medication. all he is talking about is shipment. that is the easy bit.” can't he say that? i want to ask about the labour party. are you disappointed the labour party will not be calling for a vote of in jeremy corbyn... notjeremy corbyn, surrey, borisjohnson, jeremy corbyn... notjeremy corbyn, surrey, boris johnson, for the foreseeable? i think they will wait until the 31st of october to see if we can get an extension, to see if we can get an extension, to see if we can get an extension, to see if we can stop the possibility of a no deal going ahead, which will be the worst case scenario for people

settling in the north of the country who feel completely isolated and rejected by this westminster centric government. i can tell you the people of liverpool are absolutely disheartened, outraged at the response of the prime minister to the judicial decision made yesterday. he is not going to apologise. there is no plan for resignation and the talks of him wanting to prorogue again. how many times is he going to evade and run away from scrutiny and accountability? what do you want borisjohnson to do now, mrjames?” would like to leave on the 31st and iam not would like to leave on the 31st and i am not worried about a no deal. if he has to go back say, humble pie, ask for an extension for a month, people know what they are voting for. if you vote conservative, you

know we are going to leave. if you vote lib den, you will stay and that is it. if you vote for labour, you do not know if you are in or out. —— lib den. i spoke to my family last night, they are sick and fed up and wa nt to night, they are sick and fed up and want to get the country back. why not have a second referendum? we do not have a second referendum? we do not have a second referendum? we do not have time to go over that. general election will solve nothing. people will say we voted for this, we voted for that filter if we have a second referendum, then leave option will be the site —— as i can well be defined and will be what it is. they can vote for it. —— option will be defined. it is a democratic country and i am proud of my country. i have seen previous

countries having to have a referendum is reran and i had thought that was appalling. i am watching my country contemplate a second referendum. it is embarrassing and not what i thought my country was. thank you so much. thank you for conversing with each other. i really appreciate it. much appreciated. the pm no longer has a majority in parliament so why aren't mps getting together to force the pm to resign. let's talk to various mps who have not got their microphones on yet. lib dem mp chukka umunna — the lib dems want to stop brexit. he quit labour earlier this year. shadow treasury minister, labour's clive lewis — he was one of those mps who held up a "silenced" sign when parliament was suspended. stewart jackson who used to be a tory mp and then special adviser to the government on brexit.

that is the entourage of the prime minister going back to downing street, having arrived at heathrow from new york. and drew hendry from the snp — which has called on boris johnson to resign. good morning, all of you. thank you for coming on the programme. what do you think of the situation boris johnson is in right now?” you think of the situation boris johnson is in right now? i think thatis johnson is in right now? i think that is as a result of dishonesty of a group of parliamentarians. they are undermining their negotiating position of the government. the brexit secretary has had to cancel a meeting of italian counterparts to discuss the nuts and bolts of brexit. what does that have to do with... he has come back to parliament because of the antics. this quagmire of the parliament he will not discuss anything that they

have not discussed for three and a half years. they will not vote to revoke that they will not vote for a deal, and they will not vote to get rid of the government. it will be about picking fluff out of their own navels and undermining the position of the government. how do you respond to that? the eu has said they are not being negotiated with, so don't make up their ministers are out there sorting out because they are not. the highest court in the land has said borisjohnson has acted illegally, unlawfully, and we quite clearly need to be here to hold him to account, which is what we should always have been doing at a time of national crisis. to hear you turning people against the judiciary committee were undermining democracy. stop, be careful. why are you frightened of an election? we

are not frightened of an election. the highest court in the land is actually a general election. briefly... a general election when the conservative party need 3 million less votes for one labour mp. that is not there. is jeremy corbyn coming under pressure to a vote of no confidence? we want to stop brexit altogether. that comes first. the problem with tabling a vote of no confidence now is that will set up a table of events to precipitate a general election during the period when we could crash out of the european union without a deal. frankly, all of us as opposition parties do not have confidence in the prime minister and wa nt confidence in the prime minister and want him removed. all of us are

absolutely certain we cannot do anything to precipitate us leaving without a deal. let's get the extension to article 50 and then we can look at the votes of no confidence. the reason we are in this mess is because brexit, in the form promised to the british people, by people like yourself who campaigned to leave, has proved impossible to deliver. but this parliament... you said you would honour their decision. you said it on mass media. no, i did not. hang on mass media. no, i did not. hang ona on mass media. no, i did not. hang on a minute. you are the one who has been part of a campaign that told a flurry of lies and mysteries and we are trying to clear it out now.” would like to see how united you are. what is the position of the snp? i think it is important to state that borisjohnson has misled

the public and parliament and the queen. the court of session in scotland said he was signing the parliamentary process. that was upheld. the highest court in the land yesterday did not impugn the motives. they upheld the court of session ruling. if the queen cannot trust borisjohnson, why should scotland and why should anybody trust him? we want to make sure there is no chance of him pulling any further strikes about him taking the uk out of the european union on a hard no—deal brexit which would be bad economically. we want to get to a general election as quickly as it panted that boris johnson out as quickly as we can. their worst manifestation of that is a boris johnson tory government. we want him gone. he should resign today. i'm hoping he willjoin a statement

today. if not it is ourjob to get him out as quickly as possible. if it is possible to make sure there is no ability for him to pull a stroke over the 31st of october deadline... is it not watertight? boris johnson has been prepared to act unlawfully in the past, why would we trust him now with the future of the country? he has already said he will not apply for an extension. he has also said he will abide by the law. so far, how he has acted, it is not looking good for him. we have three left of centre politicians here who are siding with the establishment over the people. it is amazing. it is all about playing for time by

playing this out into early 2020. the mandate is to load, let's have another referendum and it will be remain versus remain light. that is the end of the programme as the music has started, which you cannot hear. bbc news rim live is next. thank you for coming onto the programme. “— thank you for coming onto the programme. —— newsroom. good morning. conditions should not be as tricky as they wear yesterday. there was a huge amount of rainfall falling across many parts of the uk. that was all due to the remnants of

the by have a pen. when systems are meeting their way in from the atla ntic meeting their way in from the atlantic and it will be unsettled over the past few days. —— of the by hurricane. there may be the odd shower in the north and east. sunny spells in many parts of england and wales. more cloud rolling in from the west. temperatures today getting into the mid to high teens. overnight, temperatures down to about 11 to 15 degrees. quite a wet start to the day for many parts on thursday. the rain will clear away to be replaced by a mixture of sunny spells and blustery showers with temperatures of 16 to 20 celsius. goodbye for now.

you're watching bbc newsroom live, i'm annita mcveigh, outside the houses of parliament. boris johnson flies back into a political storm here, after the supreme court ruled his decision to suspend parliament was unlawful. these are live pictures of the prime minister's motorcade, heading towards central london, where he'll address parliament later. mps return to the commons in the next half hour, amid calls for mrjohnson's resignation. i would not criticise the supreme court, even though i disagree with their position, i'm simply pointing out both in england and scotland, very seniorjudges took the view this was lawful. we will once again be able to question the government