tv BBC News BBC News October 19, 2019 8:00pm-8:31pm BST
8:00 pm
you're watching a bbc news special live from westminster, where members of parliament have forced the british prime minister to ask for a delay to brexit. the ayes to the right, three to two, the noes to the left, 306, so the ayes have it, unlock! mps passed an amendment witholding approval of boris johnson's deal until it becomes law. as a result there has been no vote today on the prime minister's deal. i will not negotiate a delay with the eu. and neither does the law compel me to do so. it is an emphatic decision by this house that has declined to back the prime minister's deal today and clearly voted to stop a no deal crash out.
8:01 pm
the european council president donald tusk says he spoke to the prime minister and is waiting for a letter requesting an extension to the brexit date. cheering and applause. 0utside parliament, anti—brexit demonstrators cheered as they heard about the delay. the "people's vote" second referendum campaign have held a huge rally in central london today. hello and a very warm welcome from westminster. where the house of commons has been sitting on a saturday, for the first time in nearly a0 years. it was supposed to be crunch day,
8:02 pm
a day when borisjohnson‘s new withdrawal deal would be accepted or rejected — but this afternoon mps voted for another delay to the decision. they backed an amendment requiring the prime minister to write to the eu by 11 o'clock tonight asking for a brexit extension beyond october 31st, even if his withdrawal deal was passed. the european council president donald tusk says he is now waiting for that letter having spoken to borisjohnson. there is the tweet. the prime minister said he was not daunted by today's result and is still planned to take the uk out of the eu by the end of the month. we are also told that emmanuel macron of france has found the prime minister, shared his view that there was a need for quote, swift clarification and went on to say that a delay is in no one's interest. we start with our political editor laura kuenssberg, on the day mps backed another delay to the brexit process.
8:03 pm
cheering and applause. before it was official, the moves in the middle, then the cheers on the right... order! ..showed borisjohnson was thwarted. the ayes to the right, 322. the noes to the left, 306. by a margin of 16, mps said not never to his deal, but not today, not yet. so the ayes have it. the ayes have it. unlock! he is now obliged by law to ask the eu for a delay, but he'll kick and scream. i will tell our friends and colleagues in the eu exactly what i have told everyone in the last 88 days that i have served as prime minister, that further delay would be bad for this country, bad for our european union, and bad for democracy. warnings of big trouble, though, if he wants to frustrate the law. today is an historic day for parliament, because it said it
8:04 pm
will not be blackmailed by a prime minister who is apparently prepared once again to defy a law passed by this parliament. i invite him to think very carefully about the remarks hejust made about refusing, apparently, to apply for the extension which the eu no.2 act requires him to do. and any failure of a prime minister who thinks he is above the law, well, prime minister, you'll find yourself in court. one way or another, this was always going to be a fraught and huge day. not a queue for a saturday match, but for parliament. would mstust rush headlong into more confusion? or is itjust a chance for those sure of their position to give it again? well, i'm going to vote against the deal, it's very bad for the country. i will be supporting the prime minister. the tensions torn by the referendum in plain view, but many of them agonising,
8:05 pm
genuinely wondering what the best thing to do. even stretching family ties. for the prime minister, though, only one aim — to try to force this to a conclusion any way he could. statement, the prime minister... mr speaker, today this house has a historic opportunity to show the same breadth of vision as our european neighbours, the same ability and resolve to reach beyond past disagreements by getting brexit done. decrying attempts by mps to postpone saying yes or no legally to the deal until all the laws that go along with it are also passed. further delay is pointless, expensive and deeply corrosive of public trust. labour, though, resistant notjust to the deal... this government cannot be trusted
8:06 pm
and these benches will not be duped. but denying, too, borisjohnson any chance to move forward. labour is not prepared to sell out the communities that we represent. and we will not back this sell—out deal. just as the former prime minister found, though, there is a range of opposition parties who will rage against brexit. a deal that will see scotland shafted by this united kingdom government. today hundreds of thousands of people will be outside, demanding a final say in a people's vote. how could plaid cymru ever support his billionaires' brexit? this deal takes a wrecking ball to our social and environmental standards... and without his northern irish allies on board, the prime minister simply couldn't be sure of the numbers. rather than a great deal, this will do a great deal of damage to the union.
8:07 pm
look, though who was coming to help — with a joke? standing here i have a distinct sense of deja vu. laughter and a rebuke to those who voted against her now planning to do the same to borisjohnson. but remember, once upon a time, that included him. when this house voted overwhelmingly to give the choice of our membership the eu to the british people, did we really mean it? i think there can only be one answer to that and that is, yes, we did mean it, because if this parliament did not mean it, then it is guilty of the most egregious con trick on the british people. but there's a sprinkling of labour mps who want this done. we will be forced, even if a deal is approved, to seek an extension to the 31st of january, underlying that the sponsors of benn act had only one motivation, and that was to delay brexit and stop it.
8:08 pm
but it's not over, not yet. 306... crowds who wanted another referendum were delighted that the delay gives them a new chance to stop brexit, but frustration and nerves on the other side. but we were always clear it has to be brexit for the whole of the united kingdom — it can't be northern ireland left behind. remain or leave, they've just had enough. they want us to get this done and i'm astonished by the kind of anger that's beginning to boil up. for god's sake, get it done. so they're turning their attention on parliament. the prime minister's allies today wanted it at least to be the beginning of the end, a conclusion. but look at this. cabinet ministers protected by the police from anti—brexit protesters on their way out. chanting: shame on you, shame on you! there's nothing final about what has happened today. animosity still all around.
8:09 pm
seen some of those things were pretty ugly, jacob rees—mogg and his son there, and some labour mps had police escort well, jess philip saying nine police around me as i walked the short distance back to parliament, not on my request, there is. it does not matter which side does not matter which side does, aggression is wrong and counter—productive, pack it in. i think most people would endorse that. 0ur politicall correspondent jonathan blakejoins me now. a number of mps have complained about the atmosphere. we saw several cabinet ministers having to have a police escort. they made their way away from the parliamentary estate after that vote earlier today and andrea leadsom, michael gove, jacob rees—mogg who had his son with him, walked the short distance to his home not farfrom walked the short distance to his home not far from here with some pretty heavy abuse being hurled at him. now is this part of the
8:10 pm
rough—and—tumble of what is a very tense time at westminster or something a bit more sinister than that? it was certainly intimidating for some of those involved, andrea leadsom said it was frightening for her and we have seen in the aftermath, as you pointed out there, there is some cross—party support for those who were on the receiving end of the abuse today and it is meted out to mps on all sides, jo swinson, the liberal democrat leader has drawn attention to the abuse faced by jacob rees—mogg has drawn attention to the abuse faced byjacob rees—mogg saying it is not acceptable and going further in saying that those pointing out he should not have had his son with him, why shouldn't he be able to walk along the street with one of his children on a saturday afternoon? tense scenes certainly at westminster. it is the times we live in at the moment. let us talk about the letter that borisjohnson sent to mps tonight. it is a letter, not the letter. he has written to mps and peers on all sides tonight and it is very familiar in town, in most pa rt it is very familiar in town, in most part saying that he believes the uk
8:11 pm
should leave the eu and will leave the eu at the end of october and parliament has had many opportunities to vote for a deal. 0ne opportunities to vote for a deal. one key line, that may be is a little bit of a clue as to whether he would ask for that extension to the brexit process that he is legally obliged to do by law by i! o'clock tonight, suggesting that the eu may not respond quickly or may refuse parliament's eu may not respond quickly or may refuse pa rliament‘s quest eu may not respond quickly or may refuse parliament's quest for an extension, as he puts it in the letter. now it is of course a letter that will be written if he complies with the terms of the benn act by himself and signed by himself, but the government on borisjohnson is styling it as a part of an ‘s request for a delay. that is again an appeal to request for a delay. that is again an appealto mps request for a delay. that is again an appeal to mps and peers to back a deal. we think that faced with the prospect of no deal, that eu leaders will grant prospect of no deal, that eu leaders willgrantan prospect of no deal, that eu leaders will grant an extension, that no country would veto it, butjust looking at emmanuel macron tonight saying that there needs to be urgent clarification from the british side and a delay is in the interest of no
8:12 pm
one. we know that the french side are frustrated with this ruling extension and we cannot absolutely ta ke extension and we cannot absolutely take it for granted. the french do not want a delay to brexit, not a long one and emmanuel macron last time around when theresa may asked for the current extension was holding out against it until the last moment. it is not a given that the eu will say yes, you can have an extension until the end ofjanuary, there you go, they have not really moved on. the eu leaders have not moved on. the eu leaders have not moved on. the eu leaders have not moved on to formally discussing the prospect of that extension, if it is asked for and how long it should be and whether it should be granted. it may be that they say yes, you can have an extension, but shorter than the one requested or they will only grant it as a technical extension for a matter of weeks. we will have to see what the responses and downing street are clearly hoping that the response from the eu does not come immediately and that there is that indecision and uncertainty about whether the eu member states are willing to back the extension that boris johnson
8:13 pm
are willing to back the extension that borisjohnson we assume is going to ask for. a quick final thought, the dup quite clearly are going to be a thorn in the side of the government, some strong words from nigel dodds, the leader in that house saying, we are is prepared to support any amendment coming forward , support any amendment coming forward, including an event for a second referendum. it is a clear warning to boris johnson second referendum. it is a clear warning to borisjohnson that unless he is able to secure changes to his brexit deal or renegotiate along different lines how the irish border would work and how the customs border in the irish the woodwork, then the dup will vote against it at almost any cost. and they could use amendments coming forward for a second referendum, amendments coming forward to negotiate a closer relationship to the eu, something that they do not necessarily want but would be willing to vote for as a way of stopping borisjohnson getting his deal through. you can getting his deal through. you can get it through without them but it will be difficult and it is ten votes that he really does need. jonathan blake, thank you very much for that update and just to remind you that we are waiting for the
8:14 pm
letter as jonathan said and according to the benn act, the legislation is in place and that letter is supposed to go to the european union this evening by i! letter is supposed to go to the european union this evening by 11 tm and of course, as and when we get that, we will show you the letter and what it says. you're watching a bbc news special. as we've heard, the parliamentary vote on the prime minister's brexit deal, which we had been expecting today, might now take place early next week. it's yet another complication for boris johnson and the government to tackle as they try to introduce all the legislation necessary to make brexit happen. 0ur political correspondent ben wright has been looking at what might happen in the days and months ahead. ministers never tire of saying, "it's time to get brexit done," but leaving the eu was always going to be a hugely complex and time—consuming process, and it is farfrom being over. this is how the next few days and even years might unfold. borisjohnson and the eu have agreed a new withdrawal deal. the terms of divorce.
8:15 pm
the prime minister wanted mps to approve it today in principle, but they haven't, so after this setback for the government it needs to change tack again. next week, ministers will publish the withdrawal agreement bill, which puts the deal into law. there will be many votes over many days, and the government may even ask mps to back the deal in principle again as soon as monday. the government still wants the bill to be law by october the 31st, and for the uk to leave the eu then. but after today all that could slip, and borisjohnson must now write to the eu asking for another brexit delay. let's look even further ahead. a whole new phase of brexit will begin if and when the uk leaves the eu, a transition period during which little actually changes. this is the time both sides meant to hammer out their future relationship, on trade, security and more. ministers will set out the negotiating aims to parliament, and then the talking with brussels begins again. this transition period will last until the end of december 2020,
8:16 pm
but could be extended for another two years if both sides agree. some tory mps hate that idea, and today borisjohnson said he wouldn't want that either, but complex trade deals can take several years to negotiate. the deal mps are arguing about now sets out how the uk leaves the european union, but explains comparatively little about what comes next. and that will be the focus of wrangling and negotiation for a long time yet. yes. that is a pretty good stab at what comes next but if anyone tells you they know definitively is lying, because there's so much up the air. with me to discuss what lies ahead in the comings days is sonia sodha, chief leader writer at the observer and the political commentator and former conservative adviser, jo—anne nadler. welcome to you both. what is going on up the road at downing street tonight? i don't think they will be too surprised about what has
8:17 pm
happened today. although obviously the prime minister was publicly very confident about being able to get his vote through today but i think it was always very much on a knife edge and perhaps the way in which it was scuppered today was not quite what they might have anticipated two oi’ what they might have anticipated two or three days ago, but i am sure they will have some alternative plans. probably, as i think was discussed with the political correspondent, i hope that the eu will not respond in the short term to any will not respond in the short term to a ny letter will not respond in the short term to any letter that comes from number 10 orfrom wherever to any letter that comes from number 10 or from wherever it comes from within the government, giving all the emphasis now on, i think, what happens in the house on tuesday. labour have a decision to make, because there is the small matter of the queen ‘s speech, the legislative agenda that the government put down next week. that has faded into the background. the decision that labour have got to make its first of all,
8:18 pm
the big decision point and a big challenge for boris johnson the big decision point and a big challenge for borisjohnson is he is going to try, we think, to bring back a very similar motion that was put today on monday and see if he can... can he do that, they did not vote on that today is a question about that because it got amended but that will be up to to the speaker to decide and i think we all have to wait and see whetherjohn bercow allows that. i think that is right. i think that the fact that mps did vote for the letwin amendment, they have ensured that they can have proper parliamentary scrutiny of what will be a very complex piece of legislation. i think they did absolutely the right thing. they have got a bit of breathing space and now i think the question for labour is either going to make a counter move? are they going to put a vote of no confidence in the government because mike and i think it is an open question about whether they have the numbers to get that through. i think this is a big
8:19 pm
problem for boris johnson. that through. i think this is a big problem for borisjohnson. i think unless he can bring another kind of vague motion to the commons, i think we are going to go next week into scene some of the legislation being brought forward for his deal and i think as soon as mps start to see some of the detail, that is where this coalition that he had to build starts to break down, because he is trying to get labour mps on board at the same time as hard right conservative mps and he is basically saying contradictory things to both sets of mps and that will reveal itself this week. you are shaking your head when she was saying it will need a lot of time. your head when she was saying it will need a lot of timelj your head when she was saying it will need a lot of time. i was shaking my head that the suggestion that this was a good thing today, because i think it is a terrible thing and! because i think it is a terrible thing and i don't think that mps voted this way today in order really to put the bill through proper scrutiny. i think it was essentially an effort to kick brexit into the long grass yet again. that said, where i do agree with you, the longer that the procession of votes
8:20 pm
goes on on this, there were likely it is that it becomes more difficult for labour mps to vote for it and that has always been... i think borisjohnson has that has always been... i think boris johnson has done that has always been... i think borisjohnson has done an excellent job in coming back with a deal that can unite the conservative party but the cost of that as it is more difficult to bring on board wavering labour mps difficult to bring on board wavering labourmps and difficult to bring on board wavering labour mps and unexpectedly, the other cost has been the loss of the dup. from both sides it is such a critical piece of legislation this, the conservatives do not have the numbers to get what they want, and of course, really, you should have a government in place with a majority to push it through. should we be having the withdrawal agreement though, before a general election i think the withdrawal agreement bill either has to go to referendum or a general election. we need a democratic exercise and boris johnson does not really i think of the numbers to get it through and thatis the numbers to get it through and that is what we are going to say and essentially, his strategy today was
8:21 pm
to try and strong—arm mps into voting for this bill by essentially getting it through, not having to ask for an extension and then all of ask for an extension and then all of a sudden he has this no deal cliff edge on the 31st of october and he can say to mps, unless you vote for the deal, it does not matter if you like it, unless you vote for this, we will crash out without a deal. i think it was disgraceful what happened in the commons today what he tried to do. you could look at that... it is a significant decision and borisjohnson that... it is a significant decision and boris johnson tried to that... it is a significant decision and borisjohnson tried to railroad it through parliament without adequate scrutiny with just a few hours of debate. some people would say, there have been two motions where they have been railroaded through in a day. there was two pager bills. this is a 585 page legal framework that was published this morning and he would not have had —— mike people would not have had —— mike people would not have had the chance to be that and scrutinise it before voting. about 7596 scrutinise it before voting. about 75% of it has been taken from the no
8:22 pm
deal. the point i was going to make though, was that they could have put that through today, that motion, this is the point that conservative mps like steve baker have been making and if you were faithful of a no deal, they could take the agenda back as they have already done twice in house of commons —— fearful. there is so much uncertainty at the moment that i think mps were right to say we need a breathing space, we cannot have this cliff edge hanging over us cannot have this cliff edge hanging over us while we consider this incredibly complex legislation and there were two big problems with this deal that boris johnson there were two big problems with this deal that borisjohnson has negotiated. first of all, hugely significant new development, a border down the irish state. that is not something people were told was going to happen in the 2016 referendum, it puts the union at risk and increases the risk of irish reunification and increases the risk of scottish independence and the second big then, is the economic hit that this would have on the country and that is not what people were
8:23 pm
told in 26 —— and that is not what people were told in 26 -- 2016. can this be decided in two weeks?|j told in 26 -- 2016. can this be decided in two weeks? i do not see in those terms. what people voted for in 2016 was an aspiration, and aspiration to leave the european union and! aspiration to leave the european union and i think most of them voted for that knowing that that would have to be enacted in a certain way and it was down to mps then decide, to get the legislation in place to decide on a deal. we have spent three years now going over and over this and what it comes down to is it is virtually impossible, because the country is so divided, to find a deal that can bring everyone together. if you move in one direction in the house, yet said some mps and you move in the other direction, you lose another set. this seems to be the most likely deal to actually get brexit done. the likelihood is it seems to me that if brexit does not get done in the short term, it might not get done at all and i think that is the
8:24 pm
real agenda of a lot of the mps and a lot of people that were protesting today. now they are entitled to that opinion, it is their prerogative, but there is an awful lot of language being thrown around about borisjohnson being language being thrown around about boris johnson being a language being thrown around about borisjohnson being a liar, about a number of brexiteers being dishonest, whereas i feel that there isa dishonest, whereas i feel that there is a subtext to a lot of what we are hearing from the remain coalition thatis hearing from the remain coalition that is not completely honest either. they want to stop brexit. that is a good point, because the benn act said you have to come back with a deal by the 19th of october, he came back with a deal and the feeling among some on the conservative benches is that again, those who don't really want brexit moved the goalposts. what the act said was that parliament had to pass a deal in order for borisjohnson to not have to ask for an extension. borisjohnson brought not have to ask for an extension. boris johnson brought a not have to ask for an extension. borisjohnson brought a deal to not have to ask for an extension. boris johnson brought a deal to the house of commons and mps feel they we re house of commons and mps feel they were not given enough time to scrutinise it. at the end of the day, this deal was always available. the eu made an offer of a northern
8:25 pm
ireland only backs up quite early on in the process that was rejected by theresa may. if this is what boris johnson wanted to do, he could have done it weeks ago and given mps much longer to debate and discuss the applications of separating northern ireland from the rest of the uk in those terms. he left it until the la st those terms. he left it until the last possible minute because he wanted to try and railroad this through injust wanted to try and railroad this through in just a wanted to try and railroad this through injust a few hours in parliament. it is evading parliamentary scrutiny, it is not on and that is why mps stopped it from happening. we heard from theresa may today, the first time she got to her feetin today, the first time she got to her feet in house of commons... what we heard from the conservative benches was quite an astonishing selection of people coming together. steve baker on the one hand, theresa may on the other, alistair burt dot mike... potentially, if this can go to vote on tuesday, i believe there are six or seven former conservative mps who voted for the amendment today who had there not been an
8:26 pm
amendment, would have voted for the deal. the difference was 16 today, so deal. the difference was 16 today, so if they moved eight and maybe it goes through. it is a fascinating discussion, thank you both for coming ona discussion, thank you both for coming on a very cool saturday evening. it is good of you to be with us. thank you very much. well, while mps were debating in the chamber of the commons, thousands of demonstrators packed the streets of central london, calling for a public vote on any deal that's agreed. the protest, organised by the people's vote campaign, converged on parliament square, as our home editor mark easton reports. it had been billed as a march to give confident voice to those who want the brexit debate put back to the people. but as they set out the nervous chatter was how conservative mp 0liver letwin‘s amendment might be their only hope. the mood resolute, anxious, even pessimistic. nervous? because we don't know what to expect and i don't think the politicians know either. the argument could be decided before you
8:27 pm
get to parliament square. it could. i know it could. and we all know that. and it is in the back of our minds, but we are going to still keep marching and state what we believe in. i am quite fearful that boris might be successful, but all i can hope is that the letwin motion goes through and it will lead the organisers claim a million people snaked their way from marble arch, that symbol of british triumph against the continental might of napoleon... past wellington's home at hyde park corner. past nelson on his column in trafalgar square, the architecture of the nation ‘s capital reflecting our history with european neighbours. details of every growl and groan from inside the house of commons would ripple through the crowds outside as they headed towards parliament. this long planned event provided a noisy soundtrack to attempts by government to bring the brexit argument to an end,
8:28 pm
before the march reached its destination. pictures from inside the palace of westminister were relayed to the vast crowd watching outside. and then the moment when it was clear there would be no brexit deal today. the news from parliament is greeted, less with rejoicing, i think, and more like relief. the long march that they hope leads from one people's vote to another people's vote, well, that can go on. it is not a defeat. we are still in the fight. it gives us hope that something can be slowed down. slowed down. because the slower it goes the better. it means the agony continues though, doesn't it? i know, yes, that's boring, but that's the position that he has put us in, so... but what will the final destination look like? for people on all sides of the argument that remains frustratingly unclear. mark easton, bbc news, westminster. with me to discuss what the business reaction to today's events in the commons is craig beaumont, director of external affairs at the federation of small businesses.
8:29 pm
what will small business leaders make of what has happened today? they will be frustrated at the lack of certainty today. they were hoping to see some progress. that said, they have got the amendment today which does not prevent a deal from being done and they are waiting for a big result today, they will not get it today, but they may get it in the next two or three days and our message to mp5, the government is to come together on monday and tuesday next week and sort this out. you have just heard, there next week and sort this out. you havejust heard, there is next week and sort this out. you have just heard, there is a next week and sort this out. you havejust heard, there is a huge complex legislative programme that has to unfold to ratify the deal, are you saying that a fourth meaningful vote, in and of itself, would give business the certainty they are looking for? it would be a big boost, we have 12 days to go to potential no—deal brexit and for businesses to make decisions about hiring people or expanding into a new office, they are all holding back on that investment and the decision making. that 12 month horizon is 12 days and they don't
8:30 pm
know what they will be like as a business in 12 days' time and that gives a measure of certainty and you should see a bit of a change in small business, investment behaviour in12 small business, investment behaviour in 12 days' time. that letwin amendment which stretches it to january, that does not work, what would work is the certainty of a deal. a deal gets a certainty, it is tricky because a no deal would be bad for small businesses. 40% of our members say they will be hurt dramatically by a new deal. it is a rock and a hard place. but you would go for a final short extension but you are right, a deal is the way forward and for the first time there isa forward and for the first time there is a credible deal that could get through this place. it's got through the eu and the uk government. if you can get all three, that will unleash small business investment. use the word a credible deal, the leader of the opposition says it is worse than
49 Views
IN COLLECTIONS
BBC News Television Archive Television Archive News Search ServiceUploaded by TV Archive on