news. our top story. there's been another weekend, the 20th, of mass protests in hong kong. organisers say as many as 350,000 people took part in the rallies, which were held without official permission. police fired tear gas and water canon, to try to clear the streets. kurdish—led forces in syria say they have withdrawn their fighters from the border town of ras al ayn under a ceasefire deal with turkey. it comes as ambulances evacuated the wounded from the town. and this story is getting a lot of attention on bbc.com. 30 ancient wooden coffins have been put on display in egypt, following their recent discovery near the city of luxor. the ornately decorated coffins for men, women and children date back to the 22nd dynasty around 3,000 years ago. that's all. stay with bbc world news. now on bbc news, it's hardtalk.

welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. alongside the humanitarian fallout from turkey's invasion of northern syria, there are grave security concerns. not least, what will happen to the thousands of so—called islamic state militants imprisoned by syrian kurdish forces? my guests today, john letts and sally lane, are the parents of one such prisoner — british—born, jack letts. he left the uk in 2014 to live in the so—called is caliphate. since then he's had his british citizenship revoked and his parents have been convicted under uk anti—terror laws for sending him money. what will become, what should become of jack letts?

sally lane and john letts, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. thank you, stephen. you are in a very difficult situation right now, because your sonjack, is, as far as we know imprisoned, held by kurdish forces in northern syria. those forces, currently under attack from the turkish army. what is the latest information you have about what is happening to your son? well, we are having to rely on the journalist's reports of what's happening in the region and he is in qamishli, in prison there. that's a town in north—eastern syria? north—eastern syria, yeah. there are two prisons there and

really we are just having to look at what's happening and things are changing minute by minute in the region, as to what is likely to happen to him and the other prisoners he is being held with. happen to him and the other prisoners he is being held withm there any avenue you can get information through about jack? there any avenue you can get information through aboutjack? can you contact, for example, british government officials or canadian government officials or canadian government officials, becausejohn, you are a canadian citizen and jack has dual citizenship, or at least he did until the british citizenship was revoked? we get a little bit of consular access in syria and we know nothing. that is all they say, same with the british side, no one informs us of anything. the only thing we can rely on is social media orjournalists on the ground. there are reports he has been taken by the americans to a rack. there are all

sorts of things, but we have no idea. rumours did swell the americans attempted to take several prisons. we know they took two, the two known as the beatles, who were high profile islamic state terrorists, we do not know if they try to take your son jack with them as they left, that is the us forces? that term high profile, is the important one. there are high profile she had and there seems to be evidence, for some of them, may be evidence, for some of them, may be the beatles, and i thinkjack is high—profile but not necessarily high—profile but not necessarily high profile jihad a fighter, because he was never a fighter. what is this doing to your own mental state because you haven't had any direct contact, as i understand it, with jack, even through the red cross for several months? this is one of the most dangerous times jack has faced. we have been trying to keep him alive for the past five

yea rs keep him alive for the past five years and there are points during that time that have been worse than others when he was trying to get out, when we were trying to send him money so out, when we were trying to send him money so he could get out of rack, when he went into hiding. this has been a very long process, but this moment now where he is being besieged by all sides and faces dangerfrom all different besieged by all sides and faces danger from all different areas, from the regime, from hardcore islamist fighters, the possibility of what could happen if the turks come in, where the prisoners might be sent. we are obviously frantic with worry over what could happen. it is difficult to focus on anything, to be honest. it is your child and you believe he is innocent so child and you believe he is innocent so it is difficult you know, to have a good night's sleep in a warm bed, or eat a nice meal. at least, i feel how do you do that, so you don't

sleep and we are extremely distressed and it has destroyed our family really and our situation and destroyed our finances and everything else. you havejust destroyed our finances and everything else. you have just said something i need to pick up on. he said our child, we believe he is innocent. after all these five years of stress, agony and anguish, have you not come to terms with the fact that your son jack, voluntarily signed up and joined islamic state, the so—called islamic state movement, which we know is responsible for so much violence in the middle east and far beyond the middle east. if that was true, i would have no problems. i am middle east. if that was true, i would have no problems. lam not middle east. if that was true, i would have no problems. i am not a father in denial, ifjack has done anything wrong, he should pay the price, he should be tried and punished for that. i don't have a problem with that, i don't have any sympathies for what extremists have done. as far as we knowjack never

joined isis, you say he signed up and joined the caliphate. please show me the evidence that proves that. the only thing that can be used to prove that is the interviews he did last year. for years before that the media created this narrative to say he ran off, joined isis, joined up with the caliphate and participated in these atrocities. it is not true, we don't believe that is the case, if that was the case we would not be here defending him. you say you are not in denial but we have the words from his own mouth which tell us he was in islamic state. even in our court case when we were prosecuted for having sent jack money to escape from syria, to pay people smugglers, there was a court distinction that made a distinction of being in isis

territory, which jack was, and being in isis. that was the distinction made to thejury. jack in isis. that was the distinction made to the jury. jack freely admitted was in isis territory but never said he was a member of isis and he maintained that right from the start. even in the court case, it was a five year forensic investigation, thousands of messages between jack and us investigation, thousands of messages betweenjack and us because he kept in co nsta nt betweenjack and us because he kept in constant contact. not one message in there proved that he was ever a member of isis. let's go through some of the messages and then we can talk about what jack has said in various media interviews. if one looks at the time line there are different moments in the course of 2015, when it surely became obvious to you that he was a full, paid—up member of islamic state and their mindset. 0ne looks at the facebook post from july 2015 in which he talks about his knowledge that a

former school friend of his had signed up with the british army and there was a picture on social media of this friend in uniform, i believe, on a training course. jack wrote, i would love to perform a mortar operation in this scene. he said he would cut off his former friend's head if that friend came to the region in which jack is living. how is anyone going to defend such a barbaric statement. but we don't believe there's messages were from jack. 0ur defence to that in the court case was never reported. all the media has ever reported is the prosecution case. jack had to hand over his facebook password early on. what about the picture? over his facebook password early on. what about the picture ?|j over his facebook password early on. what about the picture? i am trying to answer the first question. what about the picture? i am trying to answer the first questionlj to answer the first question.|j cannot to answer the first question.” cannot prove obviously sitting here, i cannot prove the point. anybody can hack facebook accounts and use passwords. he was inside the territory, and he had to hand over

his password and he says that there's messages were not his. as for the photograph. the photograph shows jack, unless you are denying it is jack at the dam which was liberated by force, by islamic state fighters and it appears jack was there. he was giving a salute which indicated he was fully supported of islamic state. i disagree with that as well. he was certainly there and once you are in isis territory, you cannot leave. he was a muslim inside isis territory. that is what he is guilty of and for many people it is enough to make him guilty of all sorts of things. the salute, is the unity of islam. i am not a muslim so i don't know what it all means. the trousers he is wearing, i bought them, they are not combat trousers. he has a different t—shirt on. but

that photo is not enough to say he is signed up, paid—up member of the caliphate. jack should be able to answer these questions himself. when he had converted to islam and was becoming more and more radicalised. .. i disagree with the term already. i will finish the question and then you can tell me why it is problematic. it seems, i understand, that you were advised by a friend of his from the mosque he was attending in oxford that he was mixing in dangerous company and that you should confiscate his passport because it would be very bad if he we re because it would be very bad if he were able to get himself to the middle east? with respect, this has all been gone through with a fine tooth comb in our court case and it was very well publicised. that is not the situation we are in now. jack should be able to answer these questions himself in a trial. there was a proxy trial for him through

us, so we was a proxy trial for him through us, so we were was a proxy trial for him through us, so we were asked these questions in exhaustive detail. now we are in a situation where the prisoners have been held in a legal limbo and the government hasjust been held in a legal limbo and the government has just washed its hands of them and that issue is what has triggered the turkish invasion and the whole realignment of the middle east all over again. it was this very issue of prisoners not been taken back by their governments and not being given a fair trial and people pretending the problem didn't exist. we have heard jack's voice in recent months, he has been interviewed on television by the bbc, itv, by sky news. he has said, "i am not going to say i am innocent. i am "i am not going to say i am innocent. iam not "i am not going to say i am innocent. i am not innocent, "i am not going to say i am innocent. iam not innocent, i deserve what comes to me". to the bbc he said, "i know i was definitely an enemy of britain". he said he considered the possibility of being a suicide bomber. these are

things that came from jack‘s mouth? i have read parts of transcript of that edited interview and he denies being a traitor to great britain. look at the context in which that is happening, from a journalist perspective. he is being held by non—state actors. brought into a i’ooiti non—state actors. brought into a room by men wearing barrack lovers and a pistol. we know he was tortured by isis three times and was put on trial in mosul for having opposed them. picked by the kurds and treated well at the beginning because they thought he was a hero who worked against isis. as soon as the british government gets involved, he goes into absolute silence. so they lock him up and we know he has been interrogated 15 times by the british and the americans, but also the kurds. we know he has mentioned electricity, he is locked in a cage and he doesn't see the light for ages. the red cross cannot access him, he

cannot speak to his family, it cannot speak to his family, it cannot speak to a lawyer. then suddenly his cell door opens up and they stick a camera in front of his face and say, are you a traitor or a collaborator? the bbc interview was conducted by a very experienced correspondent who followed the guidelines and it was clear to him this was not an interview conducted under duress, jack letts wanted to speak to our correspondence. you say you are not in denial, and i read those quotes do, and you say he was not affiliated with or a member of islamic state, it does sound like you are in denial. i am trying to scratch the context. if you are someone scratch the context. if you are someone who has been a prisoner for three years and treated really badly, are you under duress, would you like to answer questions? how do you like to answer questions? how do you know what has been said to him before or after that interview? clive stafford smith, a very respected human rights lawyer, has been the only person to speak to

jack directly in semi private. he believed jack was never a member of isis, he never fought believed jack was never a member of isis, he neverfought and has believed jack was never a member of isis, he never fought and has been tortured. how do you know what has happened to him in that cell? he doesn't have access to a lawyer and everyone here believe they have a right that you should not speak, if you are being interviewed, interrogated, is what it is, you should have access to legal advice. jack doesn't have access to anything like that. they might have said to him we have your wife next door and we will treat her badly if you don't answer these questions properly and admit you are a member of isis. how do you know until you get him here? everyone has a right to a fair trial, i thought it was the cornerstone of democracy, the cornerstone of democracy, the cornerstone of democracy, the cornerstone of our cornerstone of democracy, the cornerstone of our system. we should bring people back and give them the right to defend themselves. bring people back and give them the right to defend themselvesm bring people back and give them the right to defend themselves. it is not going to happen, it became clear this summer that the british government had revoked his british citizenship. there is no way he can appeal and that leaves him only

canadian. canada has a democratic syste m canadian. canada has a democratic system as well and i trust that syste m system as well and i trust that system very well. i think he will receive fairjustice in canada. i would like to think he would receive fair justice would like to think he would receive fairjustice here but given the way the media has slanted this narrative, they have created this myth to hadi jack. it is another nail in his coffin and another nail everyone is convinced he is guilty. no evidence has been presented. the photograph, the facebook messages that we think are not his and if you look at the english, he does not write english that way and then the interviews, i believe were conducted under duress. no idea what is happening in theirjail under duress. no idea what is happening in their jail cells under duress. no idea what is happening in theirjail cells and i think torture happens to web jail cells in abilities. no evidence is solid. if there is, you say about denial, i don't believe i am in denial. i would denial, i don't believe i am in denial. iwould be denial, i don't believe i am in denial. i would be the first to stand up and condemn him if you showed me some serious evidence. you have also had to live with the criminal prosecution brought against

yourselves which culminated in the summer yourselves which culminated in the summer of this year with you being found guilty, convicted of one charge under the uk terrorism laws. what impact has that conviction had upon you both? we were found not guilty on the substantial charges of sending money forjack to escape syria. that has been underreported. three charges, all involved sending money to jack? i believe the figure was £233? it was sent to a poor family in lebanon? but it was sent forjack? no it wasn't, there was a thought that some of it by getting him to give him a pair of glasses, but it was to support the poor family in lebanon. that charge happened in september but the police ignored that and only added the charge later. the two substantive charges were sending money to jack to help him escape from syria. that is the only reason we would have

sent money. i guess the point that seems to me, at the centre of the case against you is that you were warned repeatedly by the police, i think going back to march 2015, not to send money that could be ending up to send money that could be ending up in jack‘s hands to send money that could be ending up injack‘s hands because you would have no way of knowing if then it would be added to the coffers of a terrorist organisation? it didn't. the first charge, the one we were found guilty of, i was interviewed for that voluntarily after the payment was made and the police officer interviewing me said, i wasn't going to be arrested, he said you are not a criminal, sally. that was the end of it. that charge was only added on later after we sent the money, it got added onto the charge sheet. i guess the central point everybody needs to get around is that you were given a trial and you were convicted, convicted on this count of entering teen a

funding arrangement for the purposes of terrorism that contravened the 2000 terrorism act in the uk. the judge in sentencing said, he was not dogmatic, he said it was one thing for pa rents dogmatic, he said it was one thing for parents to be optimistic about their children. this is a sun yue love very much, but in the context, you lost sight of reality is and the warning signs were there, for you to see. with some distance from that trial, can't you accept the judge is right, there were warning signs there for you to see, you ignore them? sorry, the charge was under them? sorry, the charge was under the terrorism act in the uk, the evidential bar is on the ground. you cannot beat a charge under section 17 of the terrorism act for funding. it is the opinion of a police officer, that is all you need. there we re officer, that is all you need. there were reasonable grounds to suspect that some of the money you sent could have been used for terrorism,

thatis could have been used for terrorism, that is the charge. let's be specific whether you, on reflection, agree with thejudge specific whether you, on reflection, agree with the judge there were warning signs about jack, agree with the judge there were warning signs aboutjack, what he was getting into, his mindset, that you failed to see? and the jury accepted that the money we sent him to escape, we were not guilty for because his life was in danger from other islamic state members. so the defence was one of duress, which means we had to send the money in order to save his life. he was sending desperate messages, he had broken his cover. there was a short window of opportunity he could get out with a people smuggler. it was very well known that isis killed anybody he was trying to escape and that's why the jury accepted that. everybody watching and listening to this will have deep sympathy for the agonies you have been through but nonetheless the judge said you had failed to see things you should have

seen. failed to see things you should have seen. you have talked openly and frankly about the degree of guilt you now feel for what has happened and it gets, to be honest, for all of us who are parents, it gets to some fundamental questions about the decisions made during parenting, the degree to which you are in your children's lives, the degree to which you are knowledgeable of what they are up to. i am asking you, whether today you feel a sense of whether today you feel a sense of whether it be regret, remorse, guilt about some of the things you did as pa rents ? about some of the things you did as parents? i feel regret the money didn't get through and we wouldn't be in this position now.” didn't get through and we wouldn't be in this position now. i was thinking going even further back, the way you parent to jack, long before he made that decision to fly off to the middle east and ultimately to go to the caliphate?” would never support anything extremist in that way. if i thought jack was actually involved with isis or anything, we would never have sent a penny. we didn't send any

money to jack except to help him escape. ican money to jack except to help him escape. i can repeat that 100 times. i never sent money, except the police said we could send it and we had to save his life. they accepted that the court, the judge accepted that, the jury accepted that. we had to try to help him get out. on this question of regret, john you said i have two regrets, that when he converted to islam, i didn't walk with him on that path and be more attentive. and now i think his 0cd, was worse than week ever, as pa rents, was worse than week ever, as parents, addressed.” was worse than week ever, as parents, addressed. i still believe that exactly. he didn't leave oxford to go to the caliphate. he went to jordan on a holiday and i really believe that's where he went. ito go with him because as an archaeologist it would be a lovely place to go. he then went to kuwait to study languages, he spent several

months there and there was no concern. months there and there was no concern. we were months there and there was no concern. we were in months there and there was no concern. we were in regular contact with him. but at the end of that, without our knowledge of support he we nt without our knowledge of support he went to turkey and then into syria. from there he went into iraq. went to turkey and then into syria. from there he went into iraqm doesn't sound like you do feel a degree of personal guilt at all? personal guilt for what exactly, that i created a son who went off, i believe he went to help. we had many discussions about this for months before and we talked about all the political issues, we always talked about things and islam. i didn't walk on the journey with him in the sense i didn't become a muslim but he thought women had writes, he was not an extremist. he walked away, the person who warned us to me was the person who warned us to me was the extremist, who he walked away from. i need to ask you this basic question, you have not had direct contact with him for around three yea rs, contact with him for around three years, do you think you will ever see jack again? i think there is a very cruel question. it is a

horrible question. it is a horrible question and i wish i didn't have to ask it, but i want to know how you feel about the future? my greatest fear is he will end up back in the hands of isis he will torture him and kill him. they were going to chop his head off the first time he tried to escape, as they did too many of his friends. i have nightmares every night and i cannot sleep. what do you want me to say? he has had nine lives so far, i want him to speak and say the truth. he has been a british and canadian person, let's listen to his story. you don't have to believe anything i say, you think i am in denial. i am not, but let's give him a chance to speak. he should be sitting here and answering questions. if he is a danger to society, lock him up, i don't have a problem with that. i am not but i am on the terrorism register. he is guilty of being a muslim and of going to try to help

people. i am sorry because this is an extraordinary, difficult and languishing subject and we have run out of time. thank you both for agreeing to come onto hardtalk. thank you very much. some quiet weather around at least to start the week and that is in sharp contrast to what we've had in much of october and that is an active jet stream and rain. much of october and that is an activejet stream and rain. for england and wales, the average october rainfall has fallen already this month with 11 days to go. very wet in north—east england. scotland and northern ireland have some way

to go to get the average rainfall and it is here we will see the wettest weather as we go through the week. as i mentioned earlier, it is quiet to start the week because we have an area of high pressure moving in. that said there is low pressure towards east anglia and south—east england and that will bring rain for some of us. in terms of the weather feels at the beginning of the day, chilly in northern ireland but especially in scotland, indicating in rural aberdeenshire, down to minus three degrees celsius to start the day. a lot of cloud around, some of this north—easterly breeze with a few showers. outbreaks of rain to the far south—east, especially in parts of kent, essex, coastal suffolk and norfolk. a few spots further inland as well. we will see some outbreaks of rain edging towards the northern isles later in the day with a fresh south—westerly wind. temperatures down to a0 degrees. sunny spells developing more widely as we go on through the day. it will be a chilly night for england and wales going into tuesday morning with winds like here. fog

patches developing that could be dense in a few places. bear that in mind on the tuesday morning commute. high pressure is here, few isobars. breezy in scotland, northern ireland and parts of northern england, cloud around on tuesday. most will be dry but we will have outbreaks of rain in the far north of scotland and sunny spells when the elephant clears away the rest of england and wales and temperatures are edging up a few degrees. a big picture for wednesday, low pressure is getting closer. also a weak weather front heading the south—east. the more substantial rain from these weather fronts will be heading into northern ireland, heading into scotland, especially the west. a few showers from the other weather front towards east anglia and the south east. in between them they will be this zone of dry and sunny weather and temperatures round about the mid to low teens. that is how the week is looking, quite to start with and from mid week, it is back to some rain at times in scotland and

northern ireland. whereas for england and wales, pressure remains higher so the quieter weather holds on. not much in the way of fresh rainfall in the way, but remember there will be a few fog patches occasionally.

i'm sharanjit letl in singapore, the headlines another weekend — the 20th — of protests in hong kong as demonstrators defy the ban on marches. and no sign of either side backing down the question is the one we've been asking for five months now — when does this end, how does this end? we return to sri lanka — and meet the community trying to re—build after the suicide bombings six months ago i'm samantha simmonds in london. also in the programme. australian newspapers black out their front pages — in a fight back against strict new security laws.