you will know the european minister says the government here in the uk, oui’ says the government here in the uk, our position on catalonia is clear. this is a matterfor spain, the uk strongly supports the rule of law and it remains clear that political leaders, like anyone else, must abide by the law. i would love to reply to this. eventually. don't you wa nt to reply to this. eventually. don't you want to hear? this is what european governments are saying. the spanish courts are transparent and robust and they have handed down these penalties according to spanish law. governments tend to stick together. that is a universal rule now i was just in westminster. people this is the briefing — i'm sally bundock. from all our major political parties in britain with there. i spoke to them. and top they all think this is a shame. they all think, and they convey their story:

opinion to me, that this is unacceptable. and these sentences, i counting's under way in canada's parliamentary election. can tell you, i can early results point to a narrow victory forjustin trudeau feel, look at and his liberal party, the editorials. they but as canadians have been voting a minority say that spain, in what's billed as one of the country's closest elections the editorials. they say that spain, government. am ever — leaving the future the kingdom of spain, the spanish of prime ministerjustin government and the powers of state here in trudeau in doubt. in spain polls suggest neither his liberal party, nor the rival conservatives should correct toronto will win a clear majority. the i am here in toronto bringing you the latest results and analysis as very early results suggest the course. the latest results and analysis as the liberals have an early lead. firstly because it is unacceptable the votes are counted and seem to in the next half hour, morally but secondly because it is a give the liberals ofjustin trudeau japan's new emperor naruhito will formally ascend huge mistake for spain itself. it a minority the chrysanthemum throne in a ceremony in tokyo. does not help. itjust makes things worse. and we do not want to make government. naruhito became emperor on may 1st japan's new emperor naruhito travels upon the abdication of his father. things worse we want to make them but to many japanese, better. it seems to to the imperial palace in tokyo — today is the highpoint where's he's set of the imperial transition. the israeli prime minister, me that you are benjamin netanyahu, has said to formally ascend he is giving up efforts to form seeing enemies in madrid a new coalition government the chrysanthemum after september's inconclusive parliamentary election. and seeing he announcement clears the way enemies amongst the government club for his centrist rival, throne. benny gantz, to try in europe and maybe it is time for to form a government. iam i am outside the he'll have 28 self relax! reflection and days to negotiate. to recognise that you have made some imperial parlance serious mistakes and —— palace in tokyo now on bbc news, stephen sackur i would where thousands speaks to catalan minister therefore point due to the words of gu ests —— palace in tokyo where thousands of guests including foreign royals earlier this week from the catalan, are here to attend for foreign former catalan leader, a highly action, alfred respected man, who said that i bosch. accept respected man, who said that i a cce pt we respected man, who said that i accept we have made three key

m ista kes accept we have made three key mistakes in the independence welcome to hardtalk. movement. he said we were in last week the whole of europe too heard a howl of rage much of a hurry coming from catalonia. since spain's highest court without timeframes, sentenced nine pro—independence we lacked internal unity politicians to a collective one in catalonia and we underestimated the hundred years in prison there have strength and the resolve of the spanish government. do been mass, sometimes violent protests across the region which has you accept that analysis of where you have gone left hundreds wrong? we made one mistake. believing that democracy was injured. madrid says there can be no enough. and that if we got political dialogue until catalan politicians condemn the violence and rein in the militants. the people to where does the vote, that it would be respected. and that would take the spanish pro—independence movement go from government to the negotiating table here? to talk about the future. my my guest today is we made the senior catalan that mistake. now how any minister alfred mistakes... engage with, i at one would really like you mac. —— to engage... this bosch. man led your movement. this might be ha rd to man led your movement. this might be hard to talk but trying to talk to the spanish government is not even hardtalk, it is hard without talk. they do not want to

talk. there they can see a huge historical mistake because if they resolved to crack down on the people when they voted, when they resort to putting people in jail when they resort to putting people injailand when they resort to putting people injail and putting alfred bosch, welcome to hardtalk. when they resort to putting people in jail and putting them when they resort to putting people injail and putting them into exile in the past few days we have seen instead of dialogue, they make a huge mistake. that does not help. sustained violence on and that does not the streets of help to quieten barcelona and other catalan towns and cities as well. would you accept the spirits of the people. that does not calm or cool down whoever is that the last week or so has actually been a negative for your frustrated, whoever is outraged. cause, the cause of it goesin frustrated, whoever is outraged. it goes in the wrong direction. and thatis catalan independence? well, it has goes in the wrong direction. and that is what people all over europe and the world been negative for everybody. nobody are saying. so likes clashes. nobody likes to see these when images in the streets of salona or they make mistakes and other cities. nobody and extent of self—criticism, you are not likes it. but interested in going there? the blame is all for others? i at the same time, it have my own has been extremely negative because what opinion and that coincides with the opinion and that coincides with the opinion of the present government of unfilled, what provoked catalonia. so what i think all this was is that whatever mistakes we did, everybody the jail sentences for nine people who were sentenced to a hundred is human, now we must yea rs who were sentenced to a hundred years injailfor proceed. everyone must move forward. and the

who were sentenced to a hundred years in jail for organising a who were sentenced to a hundred years injailfor organising a vote. that is something that i best way to proceed call negative in the is, and the best 21st century europe. way to keep spirits calm, which is what we want, because this is a it's not acceptable. it's completely unacceptable. so there is outrage. movement that has been peaceful it did not come as during seven years. it has to be like that and we wanted a shock, surely not come as a like. and to shock. court clearly be peaceful ha rd—working like that and we wanted like. and to be peaceful hard—working people. the rule that the independence best way to do that referendum held in 2017 was is to talk. we illegal have a proposal. and the declaration of independence from the regional government that we are sitting followed soon at the table and waiting for somebody after was else but there is an empty chair. and we have a proposal on the table both illegal thatis and we have a proposal on the table that is quite clear. there is nobody and deeply offensive to the spanish on the other side and no proposal democratic system. who can say that which is even worse, even more voting is a crime? serious. what is the proposal of the courts ultimately can say it. in a the spanish government? what are they democracy you have to suggesting? what is the project accept the for judgement of the highest court in catalonia and the land. the courts are twisting spain? around the law. voting cannot be considered illegal in a democracy. we will interview the spanish voting about the political future government, too, but we have you in of a community cannot be possibly seen the studio. the polls show a decline

like that. we in support for independence. you in the first have never been over 50% but now you are substantially below 50% few minutes of conversation, have laid out the fundamental problem. you do to 44% not accept the legitimacy of the in the most recentjuly poll as spanish constitution, the spanish reported by reuters, 44% court and the rule of catalans of law. there is in favour of independence the act of union in the uk of 1707 in that context, why is it that that says england and your leaders scotland will are saying that they might have to remain united for ever after. it be another democratic exercise? says that. now i guess you mean another referendum on that is like independence when you know madrid the will regarded as illegal and when grand of the united kingdom. gives you clearly are running against opinion in your own region? because rise to the thatis opinion in your own region? because that is the only united kingdom. and sensible reasonable way to find a solution. so despite that, politicians, when there is a demand, a massive demand is that from millions of people to vote your proposal? another about the future, in this case about referendum? about the future, in this case about a catalan republic, then politicians of course, and agreed referendum must respond. and they have to find with international validation. you are saying that we a way, like they did in scotland, like they did in quebec. are not enough. let's not if that's the case, which i don't get too tied know because we didn't have a referendum without disruption, into other comparisons. which is what we want, if that is the the truth is, if one wants to gets to this point quickly, the scottish case, what is the problem? what is the problem for the spanish

referendum only took government who doesn't place after the want independence? if we are really under british government had sanctioned it and, indeed it is interesting that 50%, they are going to in the last few win. let them grab the chance, let them go for it. days, the leader of it is their chance in history the scottish national party, nicola to win sturgeon, the first minister in this and get it done. isn't scotland, has made it quite plain that she will the onus upon you as the leadership in never call a catalonia, to be a little bit more referendum without the sanction, the creative than that? you know madrid authorisation of the british government. i don't is not going to authorise another know. alex referendum. we don't know that. with salmond said other things. the fact is that scotland respect, nothing that has happened or being set in the dread voted to quebec that would voted despite whatever rulings the give any indication... never say supreme court did in never, in politics or love, it canada. sorry, is a stephen, if i could talk. i am sure mistake. do you not fear that your you will counter my arguments better movement is going to get ifi you will counter my arguments better if i can talk stuck? that you are going around the same a little bit. in argument, you are catalonia, the problem is that the not winning spanish government has never, friends in madrid, no never ever agreed to hold new friends in dialogue on europe or indeed across the world to this. before the referendum, stop you, right now, with this not during the referendum, not after the attitude of yours that we must have referendum. not now. and we another referendum, we ask for much —— must them to sit and talk.

push for independence again, you are and that is stuck? well, that is your vision. i basic. of course we want to talk might have a different vision, with the spanish government. but interpretation. i think we are not they refuse any dialogue on this. and instead of stuck, i think we are moving all the time and! that they send stuck, i think we are moving all the time and i think we are asking the spanish government to move. people to jail, they repress the people, what they crackdown on police brutality crosstalk. we are nearly out of and send people into time. don't! don't exile. they say things upside suspend the catalan government, they dissolve the catalan government. is that legal? do you down, the wrong way up. it is the think that is spanish government that is not something that should be moving. they're stuck in accepted in the constitutional law of the 21st position of not accepting anything, century in europe? knowing any kind of prospect many people in for catalonia for spain. spain and beyond will think it is sanchez was perfectly proper for the spanish government to say that they will not even unable to strike a deal be intimidated into a dialogue. and with another left—wing group to if one looks at what has happened keep himself in power as prime minister recently, 288 police officers have and he had to call for early been injured in elections again at great clashes. hundreds of risk of civilians in catalonia have been him. a quick thought injured as well. before we end. two people in crosstalk has not let him do the gravely critical condition as a right thing, convince him in result of the violence. i as special waivers we are not haters,

have seen it myself, and you we love the spanish people, we have relatives there, we speak spanish, have on television, the mast demonstrators we like it. we're not hating hurling rocks and molotov anybody, we just want a better cocktails future and we are entitled that and other makeshift missiles at because we are full citizens, we police lines. this is what are not half citizens so why can't we has been happening and again it suggests you vote about our future? do not respect the rule all right. we of law. you wa nt to vote about our future? all right. we want to vote, we're not imposing may interpret this but that this on anybody so why we talk is your about opinion. now, yes, there have this, the best way out and there is no other way out nowadays the dog been serious clashes. almost as serious and we have run out of time. it as, for instance, the english rise has of 2011 when a young man was killed been a pleasure to and buildings were set on fire. have you in you hardtalk. are talking about dialogue. we are talking, this is dialogue. this is intimidation. intimidation is the opposite. intimidation is refusing to talk. to sit and talk something as simple as that. dialogue is the hello there. best way to quieten and cool pressure will be building in for tuesday morning, down so it looks like many spirits. are not places will start dry. you can see this area

doing it is of high pressure pushing in from the south—west keeping this the weather front at bay. best way to inflame spirits. simple mainly affecting the far north of the country to start the day. questions & answers. let's try that. we will have lost that weather front why did it take leader of across the south—east so drier there too. so it's going the cata la n why did it take leader of the catalan regional government three days to come out and specifically condemn the violence that had to be quite been raging for three days on the streets a chilly of catalonia? the first clashes start to took place on monday evening. tuesday, with some mist and fog around, he came out particularly where those skies clear on tuesday and the temperatures really drop. so dont be surprised if you see evening. his scenes like this across some central definitive and southern parts of england denunciation actually took more than 48 hours. we are and wales to greet us this morning. now, that mist and fog against the could linger on for a few hours, violence. and we condemn but it should tend to lift and break all violence, wherever it may and then we should see a good deal of dry weather with some sunshine come from. across england and wales. and i am a vast improvement across the south—east. violence, wherever it may come from. andiama violence, wherever it may come from. more cloud further north, and i am a member of the government certainly for scotland and northern andi and i am a member of the government and i tell you we have condemned it ireland. most of the rain in the far north, because it does not favour our with many places staying dry. cause, as you were saying at the beginning. it does not favour temperatures 12—15 degrees in the south. anybody scores. we have always so that should feel quite pleasant. condemned violence. let me tell and then through tuesday night it you stays dry, variable cloud one thing because i think it is across england and wales. stays breezy, though, useful to understand what is going for scotland, northern ireland, with rain tending to flirt on. on friday night and saturday with the north—west corner. night you had potential clashes with temperature wise, again chilly in one or two spots, radicals and the

particularly where police. and skies clear. thousands of people, ordinary so on into wednesday, citizens, risk their bodies to we hold on to the fine weather, i think, across much get in between. thousands of people. of the south—east. we have this weather front that is catalonia. that is still bringing wet and windy weather the to the far north—west. country i am proud of. that other and that low pressure system people i am proud of. that is across spain and france bringing a lot of rain and mayjust influence what we have been doing for years the weather across the south—east. despite a weather front here sending more the provocations. we cloud perhaps one or two showers. have peacefully for the north and the demonstrated. and i west it stays windy. feel outbreaks of rain, which will become the provocations. we have peacefully demonstrated. and ifeel proud of my more persistent in parts country and so moved. and what do of northern ireland, western scotland. you say a is what but in between again a slice of dry weather. say to the those temperatures 12—15 degrees. as we head on into thursday, thousands of catala ns you say a is what say to the thousands of catalans have joined a demonstration saying enough. we want it looks like that front this to stop. have lost in the south—east may bring a little bit of rain. their but we've got low pressure ability to go to work because the to the north—west which will push transport system has been shot to in to bring a spell pieces in recent days, they have of windy weather here. now, we could see gales or even seen their business lose money, severe gales for a time across western scotland. to recite close, visitors staying away. showers or even longer spells of rain here. this is costing catalonia millions one or two showers further south, particularly in south—east of euro. what do you where we will have that weak weather front. say to all of in between, some good spells of sunshine and again those your people who are temperatures around the low to mid—teens celsius. materially low pressure then clears off losing? you want to talk about to the north to end the week. the we could see something a little economy? let's talk about the bit drier once again. but then we look to the south—west, economy. in the last seven years

during this independence process, this new area of low pressure will slide into bring increasing the democratic process because we cloud and rain through the day. wa nt to the democratic process because we but we start friday off want to vote about this and not on a dry note for many, impose it upon anybody. we want to with sunshine, a few vote, that is not difficult to showers in the north, which will understand. in seven years there has been an economic two—minute be wintry catalonia and has gone up. unemployment has dropped on the below the hills. spanish average and the there will be some cold there across northern areas so as this wet and windy weather airport has been booming, the tourist industry pushes northwards we could see some snow fall on the higher has been booming so don't ground of scotland. 00:11:27,952 --> 536870763:04:13,137 but 536870763:04:13,137 --> 1073741525:56:58,321 it 1073741525:56:58,321 --> 1610612288:49:43,506 will 1610612288:49:43,506 --> 2147483051:42:28,690 be 2147483051:42:28,690 --> 2684353814:35:13,875 milder 2684353814:35:13,875 --> 3221224577:27:59,061 in 3221224577:27:59,061 --> 3758095340:20:44,246 the 3758095340:20:44,246 --> 4294966103:13:29,432 south. establish a relation tween a political general claim for voting about the future and the economy. because both things have been prospering at the same time. what i am getting too, i suppose, is that right now catalonia isa suppose, is that right now catalonia is a deeply divided and polarised society. you accept that? there are differences and that is precisely why we should vote. when everybody agrees 100%... sorry? let me finish. when everyone agrees 100% you do not

need to vote to when there is a difference, that is when you need most the vote. and that is what democracy is about. solving difference with a vote through a clash. i wonder if you have learnt any clash. i wonder if you have learnt a ny lessons clash. i wonder if you have learnt any lessons from 2017. the point of any lessons from 2017. the point of a referendum in 2017 is that you need to turn out of 43%. most potential voters in catalonia the catalonian people, they did not accept the legitimacy of your vote. so an illegal vote is surely no expression of true democracy. the law as being twisted around all the time. people who enabled other people to vote. my predecessors in the catalan government were being dealt with as criminals. but in the 5796 dealt with as criminals. but in the 57% of catala ns dealt with as criminals. but in the 57% of catalans who refused to vote in that poll in 2017. what say to them? usually there is 30% of people who don't turn out at any election.

so let's be fair about this. the turnout was under what we would have liked, obviously. but remember, a referendum was disrupted by spanish police troops. 15,000 police troops we re police troops. 15,000 police troops were sent to disrupt the referendum. and now they are saying when that referendum was disrupted by police that it referendum was disrupted by police thatitis referendum was disrupted by police that it is not valid because it was disrupted by those who did not want it to be valid, i think that could be called cynical. just a little cynical. if you are interested in building bridges with the national government in madrid, i wonder if you are prepared to listen to the words of the prime minister sanchez. mr sanchez is not regarded as a militant nationalist. and in many ways he is seen as a moderate when it comes to dealing with catalonia. he said this. he said what is needed before dialogue between us and the cata la ns before dialogue between us and the catalans is before dialogue between us and the catala ns is dialogue before dialogue between us and the catalans is dialogue and healing within catalonia itself to

catalonia must enter a dialogue with catalonia and what is now at stake is not the territorial integrity of spain the coexistence within catalonia. 80% of the people in catalonia want to vote. 80% of the people in catalonia think it is unfair to put people in jailfor think it is unfair to put people in jail for their think it is unfair to put people in jailfor their ideas think it is unfair to put people in jail for their ideas and political action. we have political prisoners in spain and that is been denounced by the united nations through the working group of arbitrary. they say release the political prisoners, pay compensation and initiate an independent investigation. civil rights are being seriously violated. is that moderate? do you think that preventing people from voting for the future, do you think that refusing to sit at a table to talk, isa refusing to sit at a table to talk, is a moderate? let me say something about pedro sanchez. he gave us some hope. even in the spanish parliament. we contributed

decisively with our parties to change the high for sanchez. because we thought we had to give him a chance. now sometime after that we feel frustrated because mr sanchez kept the government prosecutor in the trial, accusing these nine prisoners of crimes which are not a cce pta ble prisoners of crimes which are not acceptable in the modern world and which ask for charges which are strikingly similar strikingly similarto strikingly similar strikingly similar to the final sentences. do you see prem minister sanchez as an enemy now? you he can sit here like we're sitting here and stop talking about the future and how we can geta talking about the future and how we can get a democratic solution this instead of keeping people injail. and as i was saying, of giving direct orders to the government prosecutor which is

given orders and instructions by the government and telling him to ask for very severe penalties which are finally have been the ones imposed on these people. it is a shame in modern europe. let me shift focus for a moment away from your relationship with madrid over to the wider context. we may return to him. i note pragmatic but he is not doing it, he is not delivering it right 110w. it, he is not delivering it right now. let talk europe. mr orr foreign in the catalan government why have you had so little support from 00:16:41,424 --> 858993220:52:03,025 leaders 858993220:52:03,025 --> 1717986441:27:24,626 across 1717986441:27:24,626 --> 2576979662:02:46,227 europe 2576979662:02:46,227 --> 3435972882:38:07,828 since 3435972882:38:07,828 --> 4294966103:13:29,430 islands