‘ colleague, going to cross to my colleague, geeta guru—murthy at college green at westminster. you can continue to watch our coverage also on bbc parliament. welcome to westminster. we are bringing you special live coverage to viewers around the world, bbc world and on the news channel. we will bring you special continued coverage of the debate that the government has brought today pushing for a december the 12th election. at the moment, it looks as though the government is not going to win that vote, but there is speculation that it could bring another vote this week, possibly tomorrow, to try and bring a december the 9th election, and that could get wider support from the lib dems, the snp and even possibly from the labour party, yet to be confirmed. we have seen boris johnson opened the debate asking for

support from across the house, saying that nobody wants an election in december, but parliament now is stuck and defunct, and the only way to bring brexit to a decision point is to have an election. jeremy corbyn also says he does not want to go along with that, he doesn't want to the withdrawal agreement bill to go through, and he doesn't trust the prime minister, and that is why labour will not support tonight's vote. we a re labour will not support tonight's vote. we are expecting a vote within the next half an hour, possibly sooner, and we will bring you that result as it comes. let's take you out into the house of commons. this is one of the suggestions of the prime minister, i know we are wondering from the motion here for a moment, mr speaker. this is one of the arguments the prime minister has put forward, that surely all of this will just put forward, that surely all of this willjust disappear if and when we have a free trade arrangement. but the withdrawal agreement makes it very clear under article 15.8 and

13.8 that even with a free trade arrangement, and this would have to be agreed with the eu, so they have a veto, so much for the claim that we have got sovereignty back, that the eu could have a free trade arrangement which would still leave northern ireland fully or in part within the protocols in the agreement. so whilst i would love to think that that would be a way out, and we would love to say that that would be a way out, unfortunately the agreement which the prime minister has signed does not allow it to be a way out. yet another reason why we have got to get this right, and yet another reason why we don't believe that debating, croute and eisen, accelerating the passage of this bill through the house and —— scrutinising and accelerating the passage of this bill for the house will work. i want to speak briefly on this matter, because it is an

alice in wonderland situation we find ourselves in. i'm in my 20th yearin find ourselves in. i'm in my 20th year in parliament and i have never seen anything so incredible as i have since the british people voted in 2016 to leave the european union. we gave them that contract, and i know that project fear didn't quite work, and they weren't scared enough to vote to remain in, they said, we have heard whatever body has said is going to happen, that the sky would fall, but we are still prepared to vote to leave the european union, because i think in many cases they just didn't believe some of the scare stories that they were told. of course i will give way. scare stories that they were told. of course i will give waylj scare stories that they were told. of course i will give way. i thank the honourable gentleman forgiving way. does he agree with me that it wasn't just people way. does he agree with me that it wasn'tjust people who voted to leave but people like me who voted to remain, who want this done, as he is saying? absolutely. i havejust

done a two—day tour around my constituency last friday and saturday, and i spoke to a number of people, there were three hardcore remain —— remainers who wanted to do anything to remain, but most people either said, i voted to leave, get on with it, and then there are others, who say, i voted to remain, but i can't believe we are still in the european union. i'm a democrat, i believe in democracy, and when we have a referendum, we believe in carrying out the wishes of that referendum, and will remember what was written on the back of that pamphlet. it said that we would follow the instructions of the british people in that referendum, and even better than that, we had a general election in 2017, and in that general election, we said that we would deliver brexit. the labour

party stood in that general election and said they would deliver brexit. but what do we find? ever since that general election, we have seen dither and delay, dither and delay, anything, anything but vote for the brexit that they promised. it was either not the right deal or we have got to have no—deal taken off the table. we had an opportunity last week to take no deal off the table, and that was the possibility that the labour party could have actually fulfilled their promise of that general election two years ago and voted for the deal that the prime minister brought back from brussels, but no. the vast majority of labour mps but no. the vast majority of labour m ps voted but no. the vast majority of labour mps voted against a second reading, and what that meant was, they didn't wa nt and what that meant was, they didn't want it to go any further. there was no possibility of them amending that legislation to have a customs union, to get work ares' rights, to get

higher environmental standards, they decided they wanted to stop brexit in its tracks, and that's why they voted against the second reading, at least only 19 of them voted to give ita least only 19 of them voted to give it a second reading. and i would say that in my constituency in the ribble valley, it is in the heart of lancashire. in fact, ribble valley, it is in the heart of lancashire. infact, by ribble valley, it is in the heart of lancashire. in fact, by an os map, one of my village it is actually in the very centre of the united kingdom. my constituency voted 57% to leave the european union. every constituency in lancashire, whether they have a labour mp or a conservative mp, gratefully we don't have any lib dems, they all voted to leave the european union. and so what i would say is that what we're doing tonight, and it's quite remarkable. the labour party said that they would deliver brexit, and

110w that they would deliver brexit, and now they clearly are not doing that. they then said that they wanted more time to scrutinise the withdrawal agreement bill, even though the vast majority of them voted against it going any further. they wanted more time. and so tonight, we are offering them more time. they then say they want an early general election. well, the way they get an early general election is by voting for the motion tonight. they get more time to scrutinise the withdrawal agreement bill so at least they will fulfil part of their promise two years ago, and then they will get there early general election on december 12, whereby then they can put forward the programme that they wish and see where the people go. on the other hand, we've got scottish nationalists, who basically at the least are saying december the 9th. they don't want to deliver brexit, they never have, but nonetheless they never have, but nonetheless

they are being consistent on that. all i would say to them, and we hear time and time again that scotland voted not to leave the european union, more than a million scots voted to leave the european union. there is no reaching out to those million scots. more people voted to leave the european union in scotland than voted for the scottish national party. do you see where that goes? and the lib demsjust want party. do you see where that goes? and the lib dems just want to revoke article 50, that is all they want to do, revoke article 50. they are called the liberal democrats. i don't know which aspects of the liberal democrats are democratic, because we had a referendum, the people that they wanted to leave, and that is not being fulfilled. i will give way. i thank my honourable friend. as far as i understand it, the right honourable lady of the leader of the liberal democrats did say that if we had a second referendum, she might not agree with its results, and i wonder whether thatis its results, and i wonder whether that is true. that was a previous

position, but we are in an even more bizarre position with the labour party, because they say if they win the election, they will go to brussels, renegotiate brexit and then put that in the british people ina then put that in the british people in a second referendum and campaign against the deal they just negotiated. that is the most alice in wonderland politics that i have seen in wonderland politics that i have seenin in wonderland politics that i have seen in 28 years, and now we have an opposition that has been calling for an early general election running scared. the last thing they want to do is face the electorate, and quite frankly, i can see why. mr speaker, we are apparently approaching the season of goodwill, and we are supposed to have christmas parties in our primary schools, and we are all supposed to wish each other seasons' greetings. i do hope that people who want a season of goodwill have not been watching these exchanges today. they say that

people who are turkeys don't vote foran people who are turkeys don't vote for an early christmas. but it's probably true. but it's also apparent that some people have been on chicken runs from one constituency to another. that is paltry! i am standing in ilford south, and thank you very much, i will give way. i wonder where the honourable member was referring to former members of the independent group when he said they were on the run from one chicken run to another. the people who were doing it and perhaps we'll do it know who they are. it seems to me the only way we are. it seems to me the only way we are going to end this rancorous divisive politics is to be realistic. if there is a general election, and a party gets a big majority by polling 35 or 40% of the

vote, that will still leave a majority in this country extremely unhappy with the outcome. and, given that a referendum, in my view a misguided referendum, an advisory referendum but nevertheless a referendum but nevertheless a referendum that the former prime minister david cameron said would be binding, and then he made his reckless gamble and then run away and gave his successor is the mess to clearup, and gave his successor is the mess to clear up, that referendum got us into the mess. the only way we will be able to have closure in this country is by putting the withdrawal agreement subject to a confirmatory vote by the people, and legislating this time that that referendum is legally binding and unambiguously so, and! legally binding and unambiguously so, and i will give way to the honourable member. isn't it somewhat

ironic that we are now being offered the third general election since the referendum, and no sight of a confirmatory referendum ? referendum, and no sight of a confirmatory referendum? absolutely right. there is a dire need for us to think about the long—term consequences. if 16 and 17—year—olds are not allowed to have the vote, that generation will be extremely unhappy for many years to come. i think we also need to look at the aspect which has not been mentioned, the dcms select committee highlighted the problems we have with social media, and the way in which it is involved in the election campaigning. any election that we hold in a few weeks' time will not be properly regulated, and will be open to abuse. i will give way. be properly regulated, and will be open to abuse. i will give waylj be properly regulated, and will be open to abuse. i will give way. i am grateful to the honourable gentleman. i was going to raise the point that he is very raised. isn't

ita point that he is very raised. isn't it a fact that we need new legislation on both data and an electoral law to ensure that any future election is not interfered with by people who could have committed criminal offences?” congratulate the honourable member on raising that. he's done a fantastic job on raising that. he's done a fantasticjob on on raising that. he's done a fantastic job on highlighting on raising that. he's done a fantasticjob on highlighting the issue in this house, i don't wish you well for the future. mr speaker, i will conclude, then. the speaker: mr charlie elphicke. thank you, mr speaker. my constituents voted to leave, my country constituents voted to leave, my cou ntry voted constituents voted to leave, my country voted to leave, and my mandate as a member of this house is clear, and each one of us has that same instruction, and which should execute it and do the right thing. it is clear this house is at an impasse. 0n the side of the house, members want to get brexit done and move forward. 0n members want to get brexit done and move forward. on that side of the house, members want to cancel brexit and go back into the european union. this impasse can only be solved in

one way. in one way. and that is by the people in a general election to make the final determination, and thatis make the final determination, and that is why i will be supporting a general election tonight, and so should each and every one of us. the speaker: order. under the standing order, i must now put the question. the question is that there shall be an early parliamentary general election. as many as are of that opinion say aye, on the contrary, no. division! clearthe lobby. studio: so, john bercow has called for that vote, an important moment because boris johnson for that vote, an important moment because borisjohnson is again an hour trying to push for his withdrawal agreement bill to go through parliament and have that december the 12th election. it is

expected that the government is going to lose this vote. we can see that parliament has not been very packed tonight. but it is expected the government will lose that, and speculation that if that happens, they will possibly put down a one line bill tomorrow to try again for a december election with lib dem and snp support, picking up a course on the offer that that part of the opposition had made to them. but it isn't clear that there is a full backing across the parties for such a move. some snp mps don't support a december election. also some concern about the timetable, whether a december the 9th election has got time to go through, it would just have three days to get royal assent, and soa have three days to get royal assent, and so a lot of talks going on at the moment about exactly the date and how much support there is. some speculation also that the labour party would back that potentially because it would nail down the exact

date of an election, on december the 9th, but a lot of that is speculation. we are waiting now for the vote today, in the next few minutes, to see whether the government will win this vote. coverage continues on bbc news. you are watching bbc news, and special coverage from westminster of this debate that has just come to an end. the debate on the government's motion calling for an early general election under the fixed—term parliaments act for december the 12th. the division has begun, and the mp blue mulling over exactly what they want to do. mps are voting on that call, which it has to be said, there is not a lot of optimism, that they are actually going to win, because of course they need the labour party, substantial labour votes in order to carry the

day. 434 votes are needed for this motion to go through. that is two thirds of parliament, and as i say, without labour actually getting involved with this, it is unlikely perhaps that that will carry. but we are going to discuss all of this with my guest, selma shahi, former adviser to chancellor soha javid, —— sajid javid, and owen jones, columnist and labour activist. it doesn't look like it is going to happen? it doesn't look like it, if labourabstain, happen? it doesn't look like it, if labour abstain, they won't get two thirds. so what will the conservatives do, do you think?” think it is very tricky. if they are not allowed to have this election, then they may try and bring the withdrawal bill back and see what they do and take their chances to they do and take their chances to the end of an extension, and see if they can get that through somehow. i don't think it is the last we have seen don't think it is the last we have seen of an attempt to try and get an election, and i think labour as the prime minister said is snookered,

and they are going to have to relent and they are going to have to relent and give him an election at some point if he keeps bringing this motion back. owen, boris johnson says labour is snookered, jeremy corbyn has run out of road, he is right, isn't he? labour have to come out, hit the ground running demanding, supporting an election. i think it is fine to do it not on the terms of the tories at the prime minister, but there are those labour mp blue have this fantasy that they will be a referendum before an election, and there aren't the numbers in parliament. the only plausible way that could happen is if the labour party in an election win enough seats to form a government and reintroduce their policy of going back to the british people and asking them to decide between remain and a brexit deal, so what labour need to do now is seize the initiative. ithink what labour need to do now is seize the initiative. i think they should have backed an election back in september. we have a one—sided asymmetrical general election campaign being led by number 10 just down the road from here at the moment, and when election kicks in, you get broadcasting rules that

allow the labour party to make its case, and! allow the labour party to make its case, and i think then, this is what they should do, they should put forward their case, domestic policies which are very popular, who do you trust to tax the rich to invest in public services, scrap tuition fees, solve the housing crisis, bring utilities under the democratic public ownership of the people of this country, and to say to remainers, many of whom i disillusioned with labour over the issue of brexit, stayed to say to them, the only way you will get a route back to remain if that is what you want is for labour to form a government and introduce a referendum. but is any of that cutting through? and frankly, the fa ct cutting through? and frankly, the fact is, if you look at the polls, the conservatives could do pretty well. the snp in scotland will do pretty well. the liberal democrats could do well. the only major party that could fall flat on its face are labour, and that is precisely why they don't want an election so soon. some mps they don't want an election so soon. some mstust they don't want an election so soon. some mps just want a referendum before an election, but let's just think about that. the british

election study, their research shows that 50% of all british voters are now floating voters. that is unprecedented in the modern history of democracy, where normally you go into an election where the vast majority of people have already made up majority of people have already made up their mind. and last time round, and i'm sure you will point out laboured and when the last election, but the tories were far more ahead in the last election at the beginning of the campaign. theresa may was way more popular than boris johnson. if they're talking about ending austerity, taxing the rich, tuition fees, they have a chance.” think 0wen has made a very good point in that 50% of the electorate are now floating voters, so there is are now floating voters, so there is a massive opportunity for all parties to move around. the problem here is that everybody is going for labour's vote. the conservatives wa nt labour's vote. the conservatives want their leave vote, the lib dems wa nt want their leave vote, the lib dems want they remain vote, and they are factionalised in terms of where they can go, so you have factionalised in terms of where they can go, so you have floating voters, but everybody has taken extreme positions, which means that their ability to be able to corral people is going to be limited. but no

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