out before you went to interview president trump has again dismissed rose mcgowan, the actress making the impeachment inquiry against him after the first public hearings, claiming it's all based allegations. you asked for her on third hand information. advice. what did she say? she talked he told journalists he hadn't seen a minute of the proceedings. he is accused of withholding aid to ukraine to pressure about how difficult it is to speak its new leader into investigating one of mr trump's rivals about how difficult it is to speak about these issues and hers was a for the white house, joe biden. case where a powerful person hired an army of private investigators to smear the cops and the judge an army of private investigators to smear the cops and thejudge in an army of private investigators to smear the cops and the judge in the case and that is a whole separate fa ct case and that is a whole separate fact pattern. but it certainly gave the us president has been giving a very warm welcome me some insight into the idea that to the turkish president visiting washington. and mr trump insisted he'd done the right thing by withdrawing us troops from northern syria, there is stranger than fiction even though it led to a turkish systems could exist, and it was to military onslaught across the border against long—time her and systems could exist, and it was to american allies the kurds. herand a number of systems could exist, and it was to her and a number of other friends that i have who experienced sexual violence about just that i have who experienced sexual violence aboutjust how wrenching it british voters have been urged not is to talk about these difficult to give up on stopping brexit parts of one's past. and obviously by the outgoing european council president. donald tusk said leaving the eu it has a profound effect on your would leave the uk a "second—rate player" and that brexit would likely mark the "real end whole family. you referred to your father just earlier as a whole family. you referred to your fatherjust earlier as a powerful hollywood figure. you are in a of the british empire". rather strange situation because a

few years ago your mother suggested your father few years ago your mother suggested yourfather might it is about half past four in the few years ago your mother suggested your father might be frank sinatra, morning. now on bbc news, hardtalk. it was interesting your response to it. but she said and who she had been married to before and it made a lot of people question why you welcome to hardtalk. i'm sarah didn't doa lot of people question why you didn't do a paternity test because you could, by taking a dna test, montague. thejournalist actually separate yourself from this welcome to hardtalk. i'm sarah montague. the journalist ronan farrow won a pulitzer prize for his man don't refer to as your father. investigation of harvey weinstein. his revelations about the film producer prompted an outpouring of actually separate yourself from this man don't refer to as your fatherlj do actually in my writing about that rage at the way women had been case refer to him as my father treated and triggered the metoo because it is not in the boot that movement, an attempt at breaking the an ethical and legal terms, he was silence around sexual assault. in both of our fathers, he married his new book catch and kill, he is an ethical and legal terms, he was both of ourfathers, he married one of my sisters, he allegedly, according to her very credible and backed by evidence claimed and posing difficult questions about the abused another system. there is powerful media institutions he says tried to suppress the story. so how another age claim of sexual abuse that came out this past year from did the hollywood insider, the son of woody allen and mia farrow, broke another woman and there has been the story that took the shine off documentation about his obsessive writing about underage girls. this is clearly a case of a serial abuser with this tendency and critically in terms of dealing with this question

that you just raised. woody allen tinseltown? ronan farrow, welcome to has used as a cultural against my sister and my family this idea that the fact that my sister was adopted, both the sister he married in the sister he sexually abused... he denies this of course. he denies the hardtalk. good to be here. now many sexual abuse. but in both cases, he people will not be familiar with the has referenced this issue of a lack expression catch and kill. can you of biological tires as kind of a explain what it means? accrue to is soft rationale. it creeps into his an old term in american tabloid arguments. it is more 0k to abuse in journalism, it refers to buying the rights to a story not to publish it this way, to marry the sibling of but to bury it, sometimes at the your children because there is a behest of a powerful person catch and kill. it is used both lack of biological tyres. the biological tyres don't matter here stop crimes matter. abuse of power metaphorically in the plot that unravels in this book because this book is about circles of mutual matters. and that is why the protection and power that buries conversation is a distraction. in your own point of view, would it not stories, and both of our cultures. bea your own point of view, would it not and also literally because i am be a release if he wasn't your following a trail of clues that father? i grew up with almost all adopted siblings. i think that when leads from harvey weinstein using the media to bury stories all the i say that, there is a tendency to way up to donald trump doing the same. 0k, it you say this is react with the lady doth protest too

much and we all care about paternity effectively what nbc did, your and lineage. for me, i know what the former employer, when you were working there and starting, trying situation is there and it has nothing to do with me. i know and i to uncover the various allegations don't need to be part of the public against harvey weinstein. well, what narrative, which is already one in which my is for this important body happened at nbc is, i think, metaphorically in the category of of reporting to stand on its own and the media conspiring with adverse this work that is so much about victims coming forward and brave subjects of reporting to bury sources and whistleblowers coming difficult stories and there is a forward. even if you took the test, you wouldn't go public with it? whole carefully for checked body of reporting and claims from all of the while i know what i need to know working leveljournalists around about this, that it is a private this but this was shut down and many matter and surely a distraction from of it has now been admitted to in what i think is very clearly the conversation in the wake of this substantive reporting. something you book it is not the same catch and we re very kill practice in the literal sense substantive reporting. something you which involves the acquisition of were very aware is people not the rights to a story in a financial believing these women, and you recount as well about your own transaction, and then the killing of feelings with your sister where you it. now nbc would probably not, i we re feelings with your sister where you were slow to accept what she was mean, they rebut a lot of the saying. is that something that you allegations you have made about them, but why do you think when you where they're working for them and we re saying. is that something that you were aware, as you are going through trying to follow this story, and it this investigation? i have already was after a story, after a story been very forthright about the fact that i was far from a robert on this they had given you and were paying you to follow, why do you think they issue. i, like so many people,

reacting to this than the culture and reacting to this end families did not want it hold? well in fact, there is not that much daylight where this is a personal and difficult and traumatic issue, just between the carefully laid out wa nted difficult and traumatic issue, just wanted it to go away and that reporting in this book and what nbc and its supporters have now admitted recount and catch and kill —— catch to. rachel matter one of their and kill, this book, the talents on ahaz that i have conversations i had with my sister independently confirmed this did when i told her, why can't you just happen and nbc ordered a halt to the shut up? no matter how credible your reporting, and the whole saga is claim is, doesn't matter that much. later in this book that my producer why bring it up again? it willjust and i, which mccue, who ultimately wrap up this whole machine that became a whistleblower on this, went a tt ra cts wrap up this whole machine that attracts you when my mother, blaming to the new york times with this the mother by proxy is the oldest story and received first orders to tactic in these kind of cases. there pause reporting and then hard orders to stop. the book looks at why nbc, is this question in so many families as it was having secret and across society, is it worth it? conversations with harvey weinstein, at least 15 that they have now pa rt and across society, is it worth it? part of the journey in this book is admitted to and their transcripts me realising it is worth it and it and other records are laid out in is important what she did and what the book, and in which they made assurances the story would be these brave sources did to out the killed, was parroting arguments from truth. and harvey weinstein himself his attorneys that use organisations said it to you, because you had cannot report on secret sexual conversations with you — let him where you are wanting his response harassment settlements. that bind to the charges you were making. you victims to silence. at the same time couldn't save someone you love they were enforcing their own another you think you can save agreements of the very type. we will everyone. how did you feel when he said that? every investigative

come to what they say about this in report requires a long and fair a minute. but it is curious to know, window of comment and a lot of and i'm curious to know how it people have asked and have been happened, how it was that you — because you spent months on this surprised about those conversations story does make how was it that you with harvey weinstein, which they we re are colourful and explosive because story does make how was it that you were effectively being prevented he was a colourful and explosive from taking any further? this escalated from what, from the beginning, was a suspicious order to put it on the back burner, focus on other things, up to a pause on character and famous for his reporting, there was a euphemism used, and then finally to a direct volatility. but it is less order to cancel interviews with rape surprising to me and would be less abiding to you because as journalists we know when you do a story like this you are going to victims. nbc, we should say, for spend a long time tangling with the subject of the reporting and the their part, the story was not ready, goal in those interactions was to be that it didn't, you did not have a as fairas goal in those interactions was to be as fair as possible, and you will single vic more witness on the see in that scene my response to record on camera that it contained thatis, see in that scene my response to that is, let's talk about the allegations against you because multiple claims not supported by the these are serious and we want to be fair. so the moment that the new underlying reporting. and i should note that their rebuttals are in yorker publishes your story, how do you feel? there is a moment that i this book in full, this is a careful describe in the book of it feeling working investigative reporting and almost like an anti— catharsis, that is fractured by one of the senior fa ct is fractured by one of the senior fact chequers at the new yorker and it was numbing after such a long all of the responses are in there haul sitting on all this evidence and it is not in dispute now that and all of these obstacles directed they ordered a stop to reporting. it not just at and all of these obstacles directed notjust at me but and all of these obstacles directed not just at me but these and all of these obstacles directed notjust at me but these incredible sources that had woken. and just is not in dispute that they were

a lwa ys is not in dispute that they were always multiple... s, but in a way, desperately hoping that it accomplished something and having no there are always stories and any journalist knows this, you follow idea what impact would be other than something and there is a point in which you have to pull the plug. a journalist and as an attorney and yes. it is not entirely acceptable someone who had precisely interrogated the facts knowing the for a news organisation to do it and it is the reason is that they did evidence was robust enough, that the story itself. would be airtight. the it. crosstalk. you did not have the cultural impact... as that unfolded, material ready to go, at that stage. you can see laid out in the book a lot of women coming forward and me very clearly what we did and didn't have, we always had multiple named women, the general counsel of the too. and men in some cases. what new yorker has gone on the record saying we saw the reporting that nbc we re too. and men in some cases. what were your thoughts as you watch had and concluded multiple women on that? my relationship is primarily the record, there was a recording of asa that? my relationship is primarily as a journalist. i am not an harvey weinstein at it into a sexual activist and not involved in assault and indeed to a pattern of movement building. this activist had sexual assault, and most journalist looked at this have said they should been using that phrase me too for have gotte n looked at this have said they should have gotten on air immediately and it was my producer's conclusion and yea rs been using that phrase me too for years and is still in the trenches they certainly are to another judgement. what is at issue here is and social change. they have emotions. my relationship is more not this question of did we have about the journalistic side which is enough, it is that they ordered us to stop, they prevented us from getting more. 0k. and it is after i felt incredibly moved by the sources with stories notjust of sexual violence, that of many forms they promised harvey weinstein they of corporate and government

would kill the story. you know they corruption and malfeasance come promised harvey weinstein that they would and those quotes have not been flooding into my inbox. many of disputed. you mentioned the number of phone calls made and they made the point that there were at least 15 calls but many of them were those are also stories about sexual unanswered, and of those only one was to an immediate boss. initially violence. people thinking about difficult untold truths came to me again and again and i have been able those calls were concealed and they to break up important stories since did not admit to the subway saw a asa to break up important stories since as a result of that. i am moved by steady progress in this where they that, grateful by that at a time when both of our countries are sceptical of whistleblowers and have gone from saying ronan farrow cracking down on whistleblowers in isa various ways, this swell of people have gone from saying ronan farrow is a terrorist and denying all of speaking truth to power has been this to actually acknowledging well, hugely important to our democracies. maybe there were these secret you told the guardian newspaper here that the underlying reason that you settle m e nts maybe there were these secret settlements with harassment survivors and the company and maybe we will let people out of them and think for the alleged cover—up maybe we did have these wasn't necessarily some evil people conversations. now, they are claimed... that particular claim at the centre of trying to that they told harvey weinstein they something, it was you said just would kill the story. yes. how do baseline casual misogyny. yes, but you know that? there is an authors then also, i think made — that may note at the start of this book that says every fact is based on be most importantly it is a story of extraneous record and i cannot say your garden variety cowardice in what the source of the record is in people who see an opportunity to each conversation but it is telling speak truth to power and look the that no quote in the book has been other way not because they are evil disputed and i will let the facts stand on their own. 0k, going back but because they don't think it is

to why. why would they do that? i their responsibility. this book is full of characters who pass the buck and it is also full of characters would they be prepared to kill a who are incredibly brave, the story for harvey weinstein as they themselves said, they have been at whistleblowers, the sources. so, themselves said, they have been at the forefront of the frontline of catch and kill, it is going on in exposing sexual misconduct and they have been over many stories, the usa gymnastics, silicon valley, news organisations all over the universities, there is a whole... gymnastics, silicon valley, universities, there is a wholemm world ? news organisations all over the world? absolutely, the problem is worth noting that that is after persists. but there is a strain of optimism in this reporting on the the outrage about the killing of this story. the journalist and nbc fa ct optimism in this reporting on the fact that these sources refused to shut up even after all these who are in many cases sources in obstacles were thrown at them, and a whole lot of people refused to stop this book have risen up in outrage about this and many of them have and it gives me hope ultimately. thank you for coming on hardtalk. gotten on air and said we have independently confirmed the claims in this and this is troubling and thank you for coming on hardtalk. thank you. it is a pleasure. they unionised in protest that this of the journalists at the news organisation who are wonderful journalist, have been unanimous in saying this is an important story and asa saying this is an important story and as a result of this outrage, we need more space to pursue topically than the stories are describing a pa rt than the stories are describing a part of what has happened in the wa ke part of what has happened in the wake of this. 0k, part of what has happened in the wake of this. ok, so why? why did it happen, do you think? this is bigger than nbc, sarah, this is about a hello. wednesday started decently enough

long history of new organisations making a calculus that it was not across the south—west of england and south wales and then came a mix of rain or snow, worth taking a risk going up against just depending on elevation. palpable interest to report stories to keep decent weather, of this type and this was you had to be a good dealfurther particularly true about sexual away towards the east violence which is something both of our cultures have failed to speak and it was a drier and finer day about for a long time. and in the than we've seen of late, case of harvey weinstein, there is a but there is no escaping the fact plot that is carefully reported out the system that has brought that combination of wet and, in this book in which, you know, he at times, wintry fare into that was huddled with the national south—western quarter is going to be enquirer and the top editor there a player more widely across the southern half of britain who was in a business relationship during the course of thursday. with him and digging up dirt on really quite wet for the commute across the southern people reporting on him, and he, at counties of england. the same time, was in receipt of information about nbc. and the secret settlements they hadn't one come the afternoon, we'lljust be pushing the eastern portion of their top talents who had a of the front with some significant series of allegations against him, rainfall up towards those none of this is speculative, that flood—affected areas and if you don't happen to see it national inquirer began to run during daylight hours, given the fact that this system stories about matt lauer, the top is going to move a little bit banquet nbc and began to besiege nbc further north, you might get it employees with calls about this. 0k, during the evening on what will have been another single—figure temperature day right but nbc in a way, they almost across the piste. laughed at this suggestion because the national inquirer had so much there's more sunshine to be had dirt on matt lauer and was reporting across scotland and northern ireland it and the idea that they might be with a few showers, but it won't make an awful

lot of difference. here we are into the wee small hours of friday, calling —— holding back, nbc said it was never contacted by ami may that frontal system tending to fracture a little bit, declare —— made aware of any time but each individual pulse of rain i'm showing there could be really and they made the point was quite heavy and unwelcome preposterous, this idea that they rain at that of course would take a threat seriously about into the flood—affected areas, on what is going to be another matt lauer since they were already covering him. again, the denial is fairly cool night and a fairly cool start to friday. in there and as is the testimony of still dominated by the big area of low pressure which is sitting four different sources as a threat was delivered but the point is across us and, indeed, much of central and western europe broader than that, sarah. the book and the onshore flow from the north sea, moisture—laden does not go further than the facts airs and there's still bits of what these sources say and what and pieces of rain to be had quite nbc denies what is not in dispute, widely across england and wales, again, is that this is a company but not with the same sort with a set of secrets, along pattern of intensity that we might have seen on thursday. scotland and northern ireland seeing of corporate practice of burying these allegations with secret the very best of the sunshine, pay—outs which they have now admitted to and that at the same the north of scotland still picking up on one or two showers, time, that this reporting was each in their own right could be happening, harvey weinstein was wintry across the higher ground. bearing down on them with threats and what news of the weekend? and enticements on all of these not a great deal because they have now admitted to changes, i'm afraid. those secrets were under threat of there's not a great deal exposure. i matt lauer, one of the of intensity about the rain i'm just about to speak of, but that set—up nbc anchors, he himself has, for saturday is very similar actually after the silence of a couple of years written out, saying to friday, still the big area of low pressure, that it was a consensual affair at still the moisture—laden airs the heart of it, what you have said on its northern flank, feeding cloud and bits and pieces is categorically false. and designed

of rain into particularly in eastern to sell a book. well, there are parts of both scotland and england. seven claims about matt lauer that i mentioned in the book, including the separate weather front eventually rape allegation that he is referring closes on the western isles. in between, bits and pieces to and like every other tract of of sunshine perhaps to the western investigative reporting in his book, side of wales, down it is later in a way that is into the south—west of england, up towards the solway, incredibly fair to matt lauer. but could be favoured and we mayjust incorporates his thinking and about find a degree rebuttals. and people can decide for on the temperatures. i've changed the day, themselves when they see this claim the story's the same. from a young journalist who does say 0k, we're going to bring that front that she said no to a specific sex of scotland with some snow act that she was too drunk to on the high ground, but further south, sunshine in really short supply. consent and she was assaulted. you and i'm afraid it is going to be know, i will let people judge one of those weekends. whether they agree with that testimonial but certainly, this was something that... a relationship that went on after that. you have to be careful about the terms are used, right? because he says this was an affairand right? because he says this was an affair and that claim is in there and she says he was the most powerful manager company and she was fea rful powerful manager company and she was fearful and wanted to convince herself that it was ok so she readily admits there are communications afterwards when she had communications afterwards when she ha d co nta ct communications afterwards when she had contact with him. that is a common facet of sexual assault.

right. so what happens? you are in a situation where nbc basically say we're not going to run the story. they suggested i bring it elsewhere and they sent it out of the door. and you described at the time, i was kind of rock bottom careerwise. can you tell us what it was like for you at that stage? the book is about the extreme tactics deployed by powerful people to quash these kinds of stories and so, at the time, not only was i losing myjob over this, i was ultimately terminated by nbc after i refused to stop reporting on this story, i also was being told by sources to get a gun, i had moved out of my home, i was being followed andi out of my home, i was being followed and i was ultimately able to follow and i was ultimately able to follow a trail of clues to document the paper trail and get all of the parties to admit to this international espionage operation where i was being followed by, it sounds stranger than fiction but senior secret agents and was an unsettling period and i document that, sarah, not to be woe is me but to try to illustrate the sincere challenges that reporters and both of our countries face when they attempt to hold the powerful accountable. you paint this extraordinary picture of even taking

letters to a safe deposit box in case you should disappear as to what people should do. i mean, it does sound fantastical. and yet, there is a documented paper trail and, you know, this is reporting that has not beenin know, this is reporting that has not been in dispute, harvey weinstein heideman is really firm could black cube, staffed by members of the messiah, the smelly before israeli military and other entities, and they deployed agents and subcontractors using front companies and false identities and this is how far the wealthy and connected can go to vary the truth. of course he will be facing trial... well... next year, and one imagines he would dispute these allegations. how would you get to the bottom of it? how did you get to the bottom of it? how did you establish these facts?” this is the briefing — you get to the bottom of it? how did you establish these facts? i know the format is back and forth but i'm sally bundock. this is not a he said, she said, he our top story: does not dispute that, we have the contracts and signatures of his an eleventh—hour warning from donald tusk. attorney and all parties have the outgoing european council president urges british voters not admitted to it. so, for you, you are to give up on stopping brexit. ina admitted to it. so, for you, you are in a situation where you move out of your home and you are worried about your home and you are worried about your life? i am carefulto draw

your home and you are worried about your life? i am careful to draw the distinction. i was not a journalist in pakistan or in russia or in any number of places where journalist turn up at all the time when they report on powerful interest, i have after its departure the uk will the fortunate position of being become an out side, a second rate protected by american criminal laws, being protected by the american player. first amendment, which, by the way, fresh revelations from washington — create more space in my country than as the impeachment inquiry goes public. president trump says he remembers you have in this country to do tough reporting on powerful, litigious nothing about a key phone call. people, but is an important the risks of rebuilding notre—dame. distinction, so i am conscious of seven months after the fire — the position of privilege i was in architects say there's still a chance of collapse. andi the position of privilege i was in and i also did not have a family or kids to support, but working level producer who lost hisjob kids to support, but working level producer who lost his job over this did have kids to support. there were and leonardo — like never before. lots of people around this who are ina tough lots of people around this who are in a tough position so ultimately, it is difficult but i felt lucky. 0k, it is difficult but i felt lucky. ok, but you felt driven, you felt it important to tell the story, which, imean, you important to tell the story, which, i mean, you could say anyjournalist may feel that, but was there something beyond that? was there something beyond that? was there something ascribing you that perhaps related to your own family's experience? i'm very forthright in the book in talking about the way in which my family history, which included my sister's sexual assault allegation against a powerful guy in hollywood, was weaponised against me

and used by a cudgel is by harvey one screen who searched for any sort of personal data throw at me in these legal threat letters came at me. 0k, use and abuse allegations against a powerfulfigure in hollywood. in the powerfulfigure was your father. yes. woody allen. and it is a well—documented story and not everyone will know about it though so, i mean, this was your mother, mia farrow, had 14 biological and adopted children, some with your father woody allen, and woody allen then, when they split up, he married one of your sisters, and another, dylan, who was, what, two years older than you? yes. made an allegation when she was seven against your father. and she seems, and he write about it in the book, central and critical to, seems, and he write about it in the book, centraland criticalto, in seems, and he write about it in the book, central and critical to, in a way, but was partly driving you but also to the way that you went about this story. you called your sister