a team of polar continues. a team of polar scientists reviewed satellite observations over a 26 year period. with just two days until a general election, the leaders of the scottish conservatives, scottish labour, liberal democrats and the national party face questions from a live studio audience. let us my colleague in glasgow. there are less than 36 hours until voting begins in a general election that could settle two big questions. one, whether brexit happens or not. and two, when there might be another referendum on scottish independence. the stakes could not be higher in scotland's votes could help decide the outcome. tonight our political leaders face the voters.

good evening. we are live in glasgow, more than 1500 people applied to be in the audience here in the studio and they've come from around the country to be here. we have chosen them to ensure a range of political views and to reflect how scotland voted in the 2014 independence referendum and in the 2016 eu referendum. here tonight to a nswer 2016 eu referendum. here tonight to answer our audience's questions we have the leaders of the four parties who are vying for elections in all 59 are still in‘s constituencies. willie rennie, leader of the liberal democrats in scotland, a job he has done for eight years. he has campaigned to stop brexit and argued against holding a second independence referendum. nicola sturgeon is here is the leader of

the snp and first minister of scotla nd the snp and first minister of scotland since 2014. her party have campaigned against brexit and say scotla nd campaigned against brexit and say scotland should be able to hold a referendum on independence next year. jackson carlaw has been in charge of the scottish conservatives since taking over from charge of the scottish conservatives since taking overfrom ruth davidson a few months ago. he is in favour of delivering brexit and against holding another independence referendum. while richard leonard, head of scottish labour for more than two years now, wants to renegotiate the brexit deal and hold another eu referendum but labour say another eu referendum but labour say another independence referendum, which they are against, cannot happen soon. so welcome to our political panel. and do remember, you canjoin in at home using this hashtag. right, this is the bout the audience asking questions so let's get on with it and go first to fiona burton, a doctor from glasgow. thank you. our

country is divided, but appears to be united in our mistrust of politicians. many feel your all unable to the needs of the nation about the interests of your own party. so i'm really curious, how does that actually make you feel? we will put that first to nicola sturgeon. i worry about the town and the tenor of our political debate andi the tenor of our political debate and i recognise the principal responsibility that politicians, leaders in particular have for changing that. i think we have all of us perhaps forgotten we are opponents, not enemies. and we have stopped trying as hard as we should to understand things from another person's point of view. social media, i think, person's point of view. social media, ithink, exacerbates person's point of view. social media, i think, exacerbates that, although it has upsides, it has lots of downsides as well. i remember saying after the brexit vote, when leave one, and i am passionately remain, it gave me an insight how

people who voted no in the independence referendum might have felt if the result have gone differently. i think it is important that we do focus very much one of theissues that we do focus very much one of the issues and try to bring people together. i obviously am a portion at —— passionate supporter of scottish independence, i think it's the right future for the countries, but the difference between the three gentlemen here and me is that they wa nt to gentlemen here and me is that they want to tell people in scotland what oui’ want to tell people in scotland what our future should be, want to tell people in scotland what ourfuture should be, and want to tell people in scotland what our future should be, and the only one here that are saying people should have a choice over our future, i will argue for it to be independent, but the choice should life... independent, but the choice should life. . . and independent, but the choice should life... and these were the issues we will get into later but right now the question is about mistrust of politicians. jackson carlaw, the question is about mistrust of politicians. jackson ca rlaw, how does it make you feel when you know people listening to you don't necessarily believe what you're saying? i think we live in a less deferential age, people are more questioning of everything including politicians. there are actually occasions when we do agree, in parliament we have all worked

together on the mesh crisis, on issues like domestic violence, we work together as well. for me having shadowed nicola sturgeon for quite a long time on the issue of health, than others, it seems that the issue above all else where it would be best if we could put the nhs and a sustainable future going forward would be to take the political foot ball would be to take the political football out of that issue and actually cooperate. there are issues where we are diametrically opposed where we are diametrically opposed where there will always be fierce contest and i think whereas a generation ago people might have just accepted what politicians said, i don't think that is the case any more. i think that's right, i think your best and you are correct to question everything politicians now say. this is a topic we got a lot of questions on, i'm sure the audience will want tojoin questions on, i'm sure the audience will want to join in. questions on, i'm sure the audience will want tojoin in. at questions on, i'm sure the audience will want to join in. at first, richard leonard, what does it say about an election where you are all out campaigning and boasted —— voters don't necessarily believe you? we have attempted on the launch of our manifesto with a document

that goes alongside it that talks about how we will pay for the commitments we are making in that in an attempt to try to rebuild trust and confidence in what we are saying. one of the things which i think is extremely important, and we are all leaders of political parties here, one of the things i think is extremely important is that part of leadership is listening. and we all go out and about the country listening to what's important to people, what people's priorities are but i think there are times when people are guilty of transposing their own priorities, rather than listening to the priorities of the people and the communities we are elected to serve. sol people and the communities we are elected to serve. so i think it's extremely important that we understand what's going on out there in the real world that we are in touch with the challenges that people face in their day—to—day lives, and we develop policy proposals and ideas that start to find solutions to those challenges

and problems people face. mr leonard, on the question of trust, one of the stories running today is that one of labour's top team was caught on tape saying that voters can't stand jeremy corbyn and they believe labour are blocking brexit. the complete opposite of what he says when he knows he is being recorded. that doesn't trust in politicians. jonathan ashworth says he was trying to wind up a friend of his who is a tory. he says that what he said wasn't what he actually believes, it was simply an attempt... that proves the point, that's why people don't believe politicians! i don't have any tory friends i can think of. i'm not sure i would be caught in opposition. we will put it to willie rennie and i remind you of the question, although the country is divided, it seems to be united in our mistrust of politicians, how does that make you feel? it deeply concerns me. my grandfather was a minister. my father was the grocer in the

village. my mother was the secretary of the community association. public service was something i was brought up service was something i was brought up to believe was a force for good. and tropical to distrust us deeply concerns me, because it's something i have devoted my whole life too and i want people to believe in the political system. i actually agree with much of what everybody has said this evening. i actually knocked on doors, visit constituents three times a week, whether at an election 01’ times a week, whether at an election or not, to understand what people think, and i will take it all, and believe me, i get a lot that i am able to communicate and so people's problems. i spent a week doing work experience in laundry in cupar, talking to people and understanding from them about how hard life was. some of it was really hard to hear. it is important we get out there, and i'm sure we all do that. i think it is important to listen and to

learn and understand what the kind of experiences that people live in their daily lives. for the best part ofan hour their daily lives. for the best part of an hour you will be answering questions from the audience, straight answers, that may restore trust in our political system. we will take the next question from matthew, from edinburgh, a delivery driver. thank you. is it inevitable that scotland will vote for independence ina that scotland will vote for independence in a second independence in a second independence referendum if the uk eventually leaves the european union? we will put that one to willie rennie. is it inevitable that scotla nd willie rennie. is it inevitable that scotland will vote for independence if the uk eventually leaves the eu? no, it's not. think people have seen how difficult brexit is, how breaking upa how difficult brexit is, how breaking up a union of 40 years has been, the turmoil and division, the economic damage that has come with it, and they've said, i think perhaps even if i was in favour of independence before, some people tell me, i am just put off it now

because i've seen the damage and i don't want to repeat it. i want to learn the lessons of brexit, not repeat them with independence. we shouldn't mount chaos upon chaos. i wa nt to shouldn't mount chaos upon chaos. i want to stop brexit, that's pretty clear by now, i will do everything i possibly can to stand with the millions of people across the uk who wa nt to millions of people across the uk who want to make it stop, because they know that every prediction has shown there would be economic damage, it would make us all poorer. so let's unite together, let scotland be part about uk wide movement to stop brexit. let's not give up on that it's about who we are, the kind of country we are as well as the economic consequences. so let us stop brexit, stop the division, let's put an end to putting up barriers and boundaries and let's unite together to build, i think what we should have is a brighter future for our country. we will ask all our other political leaders, but matthew who asked the question, you yourself, do you think it is inevitable that scotland will eventually vote for independence at

some point if we leave the eu? well, i hope not. but my feeling is that the way scotland and wales and northern ireland for that matter have been treated over the past two or three years makes it more likely now. this illustrates the arrogance of the westminster government and the way they treat the other parts of the union. jackson carlaw, that one is for you, think. the way the westminster government has been treating us does make independence more likely. you wouldn't expect me to agree with that. of course, the problem really has been that referendums were meant to be a device whereby an issue that could not be resolved through the normal political process would be put to the people directly in a binary vote and they would get to choose. but the sad fact is that we've had two referendums and it's been very difficult, because one side actually hasn't accepted the outcome. those who lost want to rerun the

referendum. my view is that the most divisive thing you can do is refuse to accept the outcome of the vote when you put it to the people. you can't have disposable democracy. i fought in 2014 and made clear if i lost the independence referendum i would have campaigned with the snp to get the best deal to leave the united kingdom but i lost the referendum in 2016 but i accept! million scots voted with the majority of the rest of the uk to leave the eu and our duty is to get the best possible deal to leave the eu, you have to respect that democratic outcome and i don't believe there will necessarily believe there will necessarily believe a second independence referendum. we promised there would not be for a generation. i don't think it will be until a generation has passed that we should put ourselves in our country through all that division again. anyone who wa nts to that division again. anyone who wants tojoin in that division again. anyone who wants to join in this debate, that division again. anyone who wants tojoin in this debate, do put your hand up. at first, i suspect that nicola sturgeon has a slightly different answer. before i answer that directly, let me pick up on a

point jackson that directly, let me pick up on a pointjackson made that directly, let me pick up on a point jackson made about that directly, let me pick up on a pointjackson made about democracy. it's not democracy if people are not allowed to change their minds when the circumstances change. circumstances in scotland have changed dramatically and significantly since the 2014 referendum. i don't like the wet inevitable because if you talk about anything in politics being inevitable it sounds complacent and it doesn't treat voters with respect. but i did believe that people in scotland, when they get the choice again will vote to be independent because the last few yea rs have independent because the last few years have demonstrated to us the price that we are paying for not being independent. a broken westminster system has imposed austerity on scotland against our will and of course is threatening to impose brexit on scotland completely against her will. our voice has been ignored, our votes have been disregarded and i think matthew is right, scotland has been treated with complete and utter contempt. if brexit happens it will be what england and wales voted for. northern ireland, understandably,

we'll get a special deal, it is only scotla nd we'll get a special deal, it is only scotland that has been told it has to put up with brexit. i want to give people a choice because i think ina give people a choice because i think in a democracy it's not up to politicians, me included, to tell people what the future should be, it is up to the people of scotland to decide ourfuture. i want is up to the people of scotland to decide our future. i want it to be the people, not borisjohnson... hang on. i want to ask the first minister about the timing of this. you are fairly insistent that another independence referendum has to be held next year and you say that's a red line and doing any deal with the labour party if that were to transpire, why does it have to be in sucha to transpire, why does it have to be in such a hurry? because brexit is going to do real damage and if it happens, the damage to scotland's economy and to our society, the prospects of future generations are going to be... it will happen by the end of january. going to be... it will happen by the end ofjanuary. the going to be... it will happen by the end of january. the transition period will be underway, it's important for scotland to make that choice. when there is another... hang on. scotland will use the

pound, which is scotland's currency until such time as it makes a decision to do something else. we are going to go to the audience now. cani can i ask him to stop talking over people. it is really rude. well said. would you like to contribute on the question of whether it is inevitable about scotland leaving the eu? i don't think they are being represented, and i don't think the opposition are doing a good enough job to give us any other choices. the gentleman in the white t—shirt behind? you are talking about independence and the way you are acting as a base in the country is so divided. people has always been

divided on opinion, but never so much as it is at the moment because the way you are acting at this moment in time, they can't be unity if you are acting like that. we have not heard from richard leonard on the question of scottish independence and its inevitability. i don't think it is inevitable at all. in the referendum in 2014, someone said to me after a public meeting that i was on the wrong side of history. my response then, and my response now is we make our own history, and there is no inevitability. i think this thursday at the general election, we have got the opportunity to elect a very different kind of uk government. one that, instead of continuing with austerity and cuts to public services, and the squeeze on living standards, will start to change that, we'll start to invest in public services. that wasn't the question. it is important because

people talk about how the uk government has treated scotland. what i'm saying is it is not how the uk government has treated scotland, it is how the tory government has treated scotland, and how the tory and liberal coalition before them. people need to understand that with a change of government, with the election of a redistributive labour government that wants to see much more investment in public services, scottish communities and in the scottish communities and in the scottish economy to a national investment bank structure we will see a change in the quality of life. there is a lady in the middle. see a change in the quality of life. there is a lady in the middlelj just there is a lady in the middle.” just want to pick up on some of your comment about it is the tory government. speaking as a woman of a certain age, all the parties are disrespected now of fighting for my pension and paying of a student loan because i took the advice of various

government to retrain, to keep working for the 50 years i have worked, and i feel totally disrespected. the only party in this uk general election who is promising to do anything to redress the injustice faced by waspie women is the labour party. other parties demand it and talk about it. they say they will put on pressure, but the only party standing in the selection that can deliverjustice for the waspie women is the labour party. | for the waspie women is the labour party. i want to bring one more member of the audience end, and then nicola sturgeon is keen to respond. if you look across scotland, whether people are for scottish independence or against it, there people are for scottish independence oragainst it, there is people are for scottish independence or against it, there is a pretty sound agreement across the board that the current constitutional arrangement for scotland just is not

working and i think there has not been, when you ask people about what is happening right now and how it is not ok, and i think there has not been enough discussion about not necessarily leaving the union, you know, with the uk, but looking at a more centralised arrangement, looking at giving scotland more devolved powers to make its own decisions. just as laws passed in westminster won't necessarily work in scotland or wales, they won't necessarily work really outside of the south—east of england.” necessarily work really outside of the south-east of england. i am going to put back to nicola sturgeon. would it be less divisive for us to come up with a way where it significantly more powers were devolved to the scottish government, but not full independence?” devolved to the scottish government, but not full independence? i favour independence, but equally, i will a lwa ys independence, but equally, i will always be in favour of more power coming to the scottish parliament.

sometimes you hear different parties talking about federalism, but they have never really defined what that is. or have they set out how they intend to deliver that vernacular there doesn't seem to be the support for it in england, orfrom the westminster government. it is for these other parties to come forward with alternatives. i agree, the current westminster system is broken. can i just current westminster system is broken. can ijust pick up on two points, i have spent the day campaigning with waspi women, so i absolutely agree with you, and i wa nt to absolutely agree with you, and i want to see them get the justice they deserve. but it was a tory liberal government that robbed women of their pension entitlement. i believe that if the scottish parliament actually have the responsibility to take these decisions, that would never have happened. let's get these powers into the hands of the scottish parliament. to pick up on richard's point about how he heads there is a labour government, i hope the tories are not re—elected on thursday, but isn't it time scotland was in a better position than just crossing

their fingers better position than just crossing theirfingers and better position than just crossing their fingers and hoping for the least worst decision? that is what we could get with independence. we should move on. everybody will get a fair shout. it was important to allow the only person who supports an independent scotland on the panel to have her say. let's move on to our next question from davey, a ferry driver from the isle of man. do you think a hand parliament —— machon parliament would necessarily bea machon parliament would necessarily be a bad thing? you can pick up on independence if you like, but do you think a hung parliament would be a bad thing? yes, i do think it would bea bad thing? yes, i do think it would be a bad thing. we have had nearly three years of a hung parliament and the consequence of that has been an inability to actually arrive at decisions, to paralyse progress, and for many the whole countryjust to

despair of politicians. a lot of not trusting politicians is because, in the absence of being able to get anything done, people have become incredibly frustrated. i have got to come back to the point that nicola sturgeon raised because she does not acce pt sturgeon raised because she does not accept the outcome of referendums. i do. she has said if she doesn't wind a second referendum on brexit, she would not accept it. does anyone believe that if she lost a second referendum she wouldn't start a campaign fora referendum she wouldn't start a campaign for a third? my argument would be we have spent all this time talking about a constitution, but what powers of the scottish parliament have ? it what powers of the scottish parliament have? it has powers over education, health, justice, economy, and it is those public services that are suffering because nicola sturgeon is priorities is the constitution, not yourjob, not your health service, not your schools, and not the scottish economy. can i

just answer that? this nonsense about the referendums, the 2014 referendum went against me and scotla nd referendum went against me and scotland is not independent. and brexit, i don't accept the result of the brexit referendum because scotla nd the brexit referendum because scotland voted to remain. and i have got a duty to represent that majority opinion. people have got the right to change their minds because if they can't, it boils down to you think you know best about the features of all of us. it should be the people of scotland deciding their own future. i don't want to wa ke their own future. i don't want to wake up on friday morning with boris johnson calling the shots over scotland's future. the question was about whether or not a hung parliament would be a good or bad idea, only if no party has note majority do you have a significant say in the running of the country. can you imagine the circumstances if the snp, the lib dems and the labour

party, all three of you together, could keep the tories out of power, would you be able to do a deal?” would you be able to do a deal?” would certainly want to. u nfortu nately, would certainly want to. unfortunately, the last time there was a hung parliament the liberals decided to put the conservatives into government. the question was, with a hung parliament to be a bad thing? if you look at the polls now, the only credible alternative to a hung parliament is a majority boris johnson parliament, and believe me, that would be a very, very bad thing. so, a hung parliament would be preferable to that, and yes, it would give scotland the ability to exert influence, which is a better position to be in than the one we have been in for the past few years. i would hope that we could form a progressive alliance to keep the conservatives out, and that really is the choice for people in scotland. do we want to date in a way that helps get borisjohnson out of office, or not? if there is a

hung parliament, if labour, the snp and the liberal democrats, between them, could outvote the conservatives, do you think it is possible that the three of you could form the progressive alliance? possible that the three of you could form the progressive alliance ?m possible that the three of you could form the progressive alliance? it is difficult to believe at this time of a national crisis, of paralysis. many years, that we would end up with borisjohnson many years, that we would end up with boris johnson and jeremy corbyn as the leader of the conservative party and the labour party. both are unfit, in my view, to be leaders of this country. we therefore, will not do anything to put either of them into power. what we do is we will use every single vote we get into parliament, every lib dems that is elected will be a vote to stop brexit because it is the most damaging thing for our country. somebody has to go into number ten and form a government. are you saying that you would support a labour government if mr corbyn was not leading it? we would not do anything to put borisjohnson into

power. we are not prepared to put jeremy corbyn into power either. what happens in parliament is that you can have minority administrations that run on a vote by date basis, where parties come together where they can agree, you don't have to have a majority government, you can work in minorities, which means you can exert your influence. but someone has to go to buckingham palace and be invited by the claim to be the prime minister and that person has to demonstrate they can command a majority in the house of commons. the question was about a hung parliament. did you think if there isa parliament. did you think if there is a progressive alliance could be formed between your party and nicola sturgeon is and willie rennie ‘s? formed between your party and nicola sturgeon is and willie rennie 's? we have said we will not enter into any deals, pact or coalition arrangements. i disagree with nick les analysis that the only choice for the people of scotland is a hung

parliament or a boris johnson government. the choice is to elect a labour government. and when people wa ke labour government. and when people wake up on friday morning, the toys that they will be faced with is either a borisjohnson that they will be faced with is either a boris johnson or a jeremy corbyn government —— choice. i urge people to vote labour. on the question of a hung parliament, i have been long enough in politics to hear predictions of hung parliament in 2015, 1992, and even the exit poll in 1992 predicted a hung parliament and there was not one. people should not date on the basis of some kind of combination. they should vote for what they believe in andi should vote for what they believe in and i accept that not everybody will vote labour, but people who want to see the election of a labour government should vote labour on thursday. let's hear from the audience. the gentleman in the red sweater. i get really concerned about the undercurrent of people wanting to stop something happening,

as opposed to standing up and putting forward something that is constructive, positive and forward—thinking. all you are talking about is stopping somebody else doing something. what is it that you are going to do?” else doing something. what is it that you are going to do? i think that you are going to do? i think thatis that you are going to do? i think that is a good point, and that is what frustrates me about the westminster system. in a sense, that is the position scotland is in. we are having to decide what is the least worst option. but it is important, you are right. at the most damaging things coming down the track are the threat of another independence referendum and brexit. if we can stop those, the opportunity is quite substantial. look at mental health issues for instance, people are waiting an age to get treatment that they deserve right now. why are we not tackling that? we are. in the last year, it has gone up from 300 to 800 people waiting over a year to get treatment. that is unacceptable. we will talk about the health service

later. hold on. we are talking about creating a different future. the climate emergency. let us move on. the gentleman asked about what we will do. to change the pace a little bit, i am going to ask you a couple of quick fire questions with short a nswe rs quick fire questions with short answers that have come in by e—mail from viewers unable to be with us. the first one, this is interesting. should it be a criminal offence to lie to parliament? well, our prisons are already overcrowded and we have got the largest prison population in western europe, sol got the largest prison population in western europe, so i am not sure locking up politicians is the right thing to do. is that a no? it might bea thing to do. is that a no? it might be a civil offence. funnily enough,

although westminster has legal immunity, the scottish parliament does not, so actually we don't have a sane ability to say things with com plete a sane ability to say things with complete impunity in the scottish parliament that others do. it should bea parliament that others do. it should be a matter of resignation. if somebody says something deliberately wrong, that should be a resignation matter. it is something politicians shouldn't do, that isjust a long, short of it. we all get things wrong, predict things that turn out not to come to pass but we shouldn't deliberately mislead people and no politician is perfect but one of the troubling things about politics in the uk right now as we have a candidate for prime minister who seems to lie with impunity and do it repeatedly. i think that is deeply concerning. willie rennie? what we do need is greater integrity in politics. and we have got a major issue, nicola is right, boris

johnson isn't fit to be prime minister of this country. he lies repeatedly. there is a lady now who is stuck in prison in iran because of his loose words. you could say he was lying when he gave evidence to a committee in the house of commons. words have consequences. that's why it's important we try and raise the standard of debate in this country. you will not get that with boris johnson. here is a big question. we are looking for a 1—word answer. which we don't have time to explore in depth but it's interesting to know what you will say. is capitalism a force for good or bad? jackson carlaw. a force for good as long as it is moderated. unregulated capitalism is a force for bad and i think we need much more regulation. i'm not opposed to more state ownership where that is appropriate.

it can be a force for good alongside progressive politics. richard leonard, your shadow chancellor says he is working to foment the overthrow of capitalism, is it a force for bad? i am broadly in of socialism as well. can the two sit side by side? we talk about a mixed economy, we are trying to establish an economy in this country in line with mainstream european economies with mainstream european economies with a mixture of public ownership and private enterprise. talking of money, we will go to another question from the audience. this is from danielle, what is your question parties are demanding an end to us to austerity and promising to spend on things like the nhs and tackling homelessness. they are good ideas but if we want to spend so much, whereas the coming from? that is the question, possibly at the very heart of this election to stop richard leonard, your party is promising to spend the most money, where is it

coming from? as i mentioned earlier, we have set out in a great book that goes alongside a manifesto how we would pay for the substantial investment that we want to see. we've had a decade of cuts, a contraction in people's living standards and we think that experiment has been an abject failure. so we want to move forward through investment. we've said we will borrow to invest but in order to boost our public services, we think the burden of taxation needs to put more fairly on companies through corporation tax, we think the city of london should be levied a financial transaction tax, and we think it's wrong that the taxation that people pay on their incomes through their wages and salaries is taxed at a much higher rate than the capital gains people get from shareholder dividends, who sit and gather unearned income. we think there should be equalisation of the

tax on capital gains versus money that people get through offering their labour that people get through offering theirlabour in that people get through offering their labour in the workplace. the institute for fiscal studies said that your plans were implausible. that you could raise this amount of money with the taxation plans you have. the same day, i think the institute for fiscal studies published that analysis, 163 economists wrote to the financial times saying this was precisely the prescription the economy needed because we couldn't go on as we are. soi because we couldn't go on as we are. so i accept there are different a nalyses so i accept there are different analyses of our taxation plans, but i think they are robust and we are the only party which is setting out in full view, transparently, how we will raise the money to turn this country around and i think that's a responsible thing to do. nicola sturgeon. labour are talking about borrowing huge sums of money, £400

billion in the manifesto. you are much more cautious in government with your spending plans, would you really be comfortable supporting a labour government that was borrowing to that extent? the ifs said the snp plans would deliver the most extra investment to the health service. but you're not going to be forming a government. my party is not going to be running the treasury but if there isa be running the treasury but if there is a hung parliament, there are three things we would argue for, we would bring to bear our experience in scotland and balancing the budget and protecting public services, so firstly, progressive taxation, we would reform the income tax system in scotland —— and we have reform. secondly, i agree with richard on borrowing, interest rates are low so there is is more room for reasonable albeit still responsible borrowing. is that reasonable, 400 billion?” am not here to defend labour's figures, i don't think they are entirely credible. the third one is this, let us stop spending money on

the wrong priorities. all of these other parties here this evening want to spend over the next few years £200 billion renewing trident. that is the wrong priority. let's invest that money in health and education instead. applause jackson carlaw, your party is promising to spend more, not as much as the other parties but is that an admission that you have cut to four, that asta rte went two for? admission that you have cut to four, that astarte went two for?” admission that you have cut to four, that astarte went two for? i didn't into politics to impose austerity but let us remember the circumstances that led to us having austerity. there was a huge financial crisis in ten years ago and when people ask what you learn asa and when people ask what you learn as a politician, the thing i remember because i was a politician in the 19805, 4 million people unemployed. when we went into this financial crisis ten years ago, people were predicting we could have seen mass people were predicting we could have 5een ma55 unemployment in this country again. so people had a wage freeze. ye5, country again. so people had a wage freeze. yes, there were cut5. all of that was designed to ensure we did

not have millions of people in this country out of work. in that sense, we did not. we have a record number of people in work today. we got through this financial crisis with people staying in work. the question, though, was, in the future... now as we come out of austerity, with the best growth rate, one of the best in europe, with low interest rates, low inflation, as we come out of the eu and seekto inflation, as we come out of the eu and seek to maximise the opportunities that come from that, yes, we have the opportunity again to start to invest sustainably and sensibly in our public services. are you saying the money is coming from borrowing? borrowing and from a strong economy because our economy is growing and it's growing at a rate that allows us to start to invest again. we have to let willie rennie in here. if we had not managed that economy in that way we would have millions of people unemployed... willie rennie must have his say on this. jackson, your

government, and every single analysis it has done of brexit and what it will mean for our economy, has proven it will make us poorer. if we stop brexit there would be an immediate comfort remain bonus of £50 million. that could be invested in public services. but if we go down your route, the ifcs has said it has —— may have set our proposals are radical imprudent and custard. the resolution foundation said that they are the most progressive,. —— they are the most progressive,. —— they are the most progressive,. —— they are radical and prudent. and custard. that is the judgment of our ma nifesto custard. that is the judgment of our manifesto on this election. prudent, progressive, radical. that is what is set out in the manifesto and that's why it's really important that's why it's really important that people if they want that, if they want to stop brexit, come to they want to stop brexit, come to the liberal democrats. let's go to the liberal democrats. let's go to the audience on this. whether or not

you believe this is plausible, where the money is coming from. the gentleman in the pale yellow t—shirt. gentleman in the pale yellow t-shirt. there is no way of knowing what would have happened beforehand with regards to unemployment etc, what we do know is exactly what's happened and with the posterity and what it has ensured is that many, many more people are having to rely on foodbanks and hand—outs right across the entire country. applause the lady just applause the ladyjust in front of you with her hand in the air. some of us lived through labour in the early 705, and the debt you left us with, a three—day working week, there was power cuts as well so the prospect ofa power cuts as well so the prospect of a labour government in tandem with an snp government on friday is quite daunting for some of us who lived through several decades, we

we re lived through several decades, we were taught to work and save, to earn money, and now the likes of you say they are done. and the lady in the blacktop. mr carlaw talks about full employment. it is employment that are subsidised because a lot of the people you talk about in full claimant have to go to foodbanks because they don't earn enough money. —— in full employment.” acce pt money. —— in full employment.” accept that although we have a re cord accept that although we have a record number of people in appointment, some people have not have a certain amount of in work poverty. —— have a certain amount of in work poverty. — — some have a certain amount of in work poverty. —— some people have. that's why we are promising a cut in national insurance which will go to every worker, £500 over the lifetime for parliament, £1000 for a couple. sturgeon hasn't said, as she has done when every other tax cuts, she will not claw— back that national insurance cut when it comes to people. but we now need as we move forward to ensure that people are

notjust in work forward to ensure that people are not just in work but forward to ensure that people are notjust in work but in forward to ensure that people are not just in work but in well—paid work as well. can i say in response that i proudly chose as first minister not to give a tax cut to the richest in our society so we can invest more in the nhs and i will not apologise to anybody for that. but on the point about austerity... the gentleman is up so poverty has risen, you talk about a certain amount of in work poverty? in work poverty rising and the independent think tank that's —— says that under tory manifesto plans, child poverty will reach a historic high. that would be shameful and it is one of many reasons why we should not allow a conservative government to have a majority and be able to impose more of that on anybody, notjust in scotla nd of that on anybody, notjust in scotland but the whole uk. let's ta ke scotland but the whole uk. let's take a couple more from the audience. the two people in the front row. to willie rennie, i think it's very easy to criticise the incumbent government. my son has

been waiting for six months for a referral. i think instead of using the nhs as a political football, can you actually give pragmatic solutions instead of criticising the incumbent government? well, we have and it's something i've been working on for a very long time. we come up with a plan that we put forward to the s&p, some of it was adopted but some of it was not. it didn't move fast enough along the plan we wanted most have they actually delayed the plan, the strategy, which meant the money that was supposed to be invested was left on we are supposed to have 800 critical workers in the mental health sector, they are not employed yet, they need to be employed yet, they need to be employed much earlier and as a result we are suffering the result of it. that's what we have worked very constructively on to make sure that change happens. i have raised it repeatedly with nicola over numerous yea rs and it repeatedly with nicola over numerous years and i'm afraid to say that the government has not...

richard leonard needs to have a shot. i'm bound to say that i recall the three—day week was when there was a tory government in the early 19705, not when there was a labour government. but the reality today is that in scotland, one in four children are living in poverty. what is worse is that of those children, two out of three live in a household where at least one adult is in work. so there is a real problem of low pay in our economy and that's why we are proposing in this election, with the election of a labour government, to introduce a new national minimum wage rate of £10 per hour for everybody in work above the age of 16. because we've gone on too long underpaying people, having people on zero—hours contracts. underpaying people, having people on zero— hours contracts. so jackson talks about record levels of employment, but how many of those people are on insecure forms of contracts? how many of them on zero hours? how many of them are on

minimum wage? and that is often the entry point into the labour market for young people so there is a discrimination against young people which is going on out there, and we mean to stop it. a couple of interventions from the audience. the gentleman near the middle. jackson, you said the tories will cut national insurance. there is a current undefined in the nhs. the lady on the end. mr carlaw, you said about the in work poverty. people in the nhs are struggling, people around the country are struggling. but you talked about a wage freeze for public servants but that didn't include any mp5 from this minster, their wages have increased consta ntly their wages have increased constantly while the wage freeze for all other public servants have been frozen. that's not actually correct. the public sector wage freeze included politicians including all

msps. but the important thing now is the national insurance reduction we are talking about will put... we used to have national insurance paid with the threshold at which you start paying tax, the threshold at which people start paying tax has been increased to £12,500 but the threshold where you stop paying national insurance is still at £8,500. we are now going to equalise those two things to bring you back up to the level at which you are being taxed. that will mean £500 for each worker. most of theirs will be on low pay. we will also introduce a living wage of £10 40 during the course of this parliament. we now wa nt course of this parliament. we now want more well—paid jobs, but the important thing is we have more people in employment, we have record numbers of disabled people in employment. we have more women employed. we have more young people in employment... thank you. at the height of austerity when we were

being told we were all in it together, there was a tax cut for the top rate of income tax. corporation has been cut. and, at the same time, in that first george osborne budget, vat went up. it is the most regressive form of taxation which hits the poorest the hardest. we need to let nicola sturgeon get him here. it is almost as if he is saying you have never had it so good. he sounds completely and utterly out of touch. but in every one of the last three budgets in the scottish party, the priority of the tories, what they have tried to persuade the scottish government today, it is not invest more in health or education, but to pass on a tax cut to higher rate taxpayers, to give money to the richest in society than public services. what you see is what you get. in your manifesto in 2017, not to put up

taxes... if you are a nurse a teacher, a police officer in scotland, you have had a pay rise. that is what you get with the snp, very different to the tories. let's get back to public services. there was a question from a gentleman in the front row saying his son has been waiting for mental health treatment, which is about how we spend the money that is raised.” treatment, which is about how we spend the money that is raised. i am sorry your son has been waiting that length of time for an appointment. we have been investing £250 million in child and adolescent mental health services. we are working now to put councillors into every school to put councillors into every school to establish a well—being service for younger people say they get treated earlier, and it means that specialist services are there for the people who need them. i take responsibility for that and i care passionately about it. but willie

rennie, to be fair, has made consistently the issues of mental health, but when we are talking about austerity, and our health services has been subjected to ten yea rs of services has been subjected to ten years of austerity, it was a tory liberal government that imposed austerity so perhaps willie rennie should talk about that. the scottish government has been in charge for 12 years, and during that time, mental health services and the weights have got longer. they have got the tax powers, they have the power to choose a different path, and they have chosen not to. one of the most important costs, and one of the highest costs... please let the gentleman respond.” highest costs... please let the gentleman respond. i said please don't use the nhs as a political football. your opening gambit is to

criticise the incumbent government. lam asking criticise the incumbent government. i am asking what you would do differently in terms of you potentially coming into government. 0k, nicola has set out the fact that we have worked constructively for years. i put forward the plan, i have shown how we can play for it, and it is a top priority for the lib dems. —— pay for it. it is a really important issue. i have met too many people in my surgeries who are waiting an age for mental health treatment and it is not acceptable. let's get one more topic in before the end of the programme. this is one from fiona maclean, a maths teacher from one from fiona maclean, a maths teacherfrom edinburgh. one from fiona maclean, a maths teacher from edinburgh. how can you convince me that you are strong enough to make brave, difficult and potentially economically unpopular decisions in order to combat climate change? so, it is true, you will have to make unpopular decisions if we are going to combat climate change. why should voters believe

you are brave enough to do that?m the scottish government we are already doing it, so you canjudge us on what we are doing, notjust what we are promising. we have passed already the most challenging climate change targets of any country in the world, and they will be very difficult to meet, and they will necessitate difficult decisions. you never tell us what they are. well, already 75% of decisions. you never tell us what they are. well, already 7596 of our electricity in scotland comes from renewables. one of the things my party had for a long time promised to deliver a cut in air passenger duty, and we said we had changed our mind on that i wouldn't do it because it is the wrong thing to do in the face of the climate emergency. we took that decision ourselves, we said it wasn't the right thing to do. they will be lots of difficult decisions, and governments and industry have got to... tell us something else. how

are you going to ask us to change our lives to meet these challenging targets ? our lives to meet these challenging targets? we are about to embark on half £1 billion of investment to the bus infrastructure. but what are the unpopular choices you will force upon as? a deposit return scheme, asking people to pay more when they get carrier bags. we did the same for coffee cups. for people insulating and hitting their houses, we will try to help and change the regulations, but they will be difficult decisions. but i believe, i think something across the world something like 100 companies are responsible for most of the emissions. if government and companies and industry don't lead by example, we are not going to succeed in getting individuals to change their behaviour. we are prepared to put out air passenger duty. the more you fly, the more you will pay. that is important because it means the frequent flyers will have to pay the

most. it means that the cost of your flight will go up. that's not necessarily going to be popular, but it is the right thing to do for our environment. pussyfooting around on this is not actually going to stop climate change. most people go on holiday once a year and that's about it. no, some people fly frequently and their costs will go up. it is important to get on top of this. what is another unpopular change? one of the biggest contributors to climate change is air travel. we are also going to make sure we increase the amount of renewable electricity produced from renewable energy. we will invest significantly in that. it will cost us all more to do that, we will have to put up borrowing to make that happen. these are some of the difficult choices because we do need to make some really difficult decisions. some people will not like them, but we will stand up and make that case because it is critically important for future generations.

richard leonard, what unpopular decisions with the labour party may? we want to see a green industrial revolution and that is not a half measure, that is a significant change notjust measure, that is a significant change not just in measure, that is a significant change notjust in how we levy plastic bags or have bottle return schemes, it demands a fundamental change on how our economy works. people will recall what happened when the tories were in in the 19805 to the coal industry, and how that decimated communities, decimated the people who worked in that industry, and abandoned them. we have send the change we need to make in the future, and the present from the carbon based economy to the non—carbon economy, needs to be done ina non—carbon economy, needs to be done in a planned way. what are you going to introduce that will affect us and how we live? what would you introduce that will be unpopular, but you have to foist upon us to change our behaviour to save the planet. i want to see a revolution

by consent. i want to take people with us because i think most people get that what is going on in the world cannot simply be ignored. there is an issue here, notjust for the rich and the global north, there is an issue here for the poor in the global south. it is notjust about what happens in scotland, it is about what happens internationally and we have got a humanitarian responsibility to all of those people across the world who are facing climate catastrophe. are you prepared to tell us how we have to change our lives, and what a tory government would foist upon us as necessary? i don't think it is a case of foisting upon us. there are a lot more people on the planet now to when i was born, people are living longer, but we have got to be careful. a lot of the issue is we tour all of our forest down during the industrial revolution. there are now emerging countries who also want

a better standard of living who are also doing things that are deeply damaging to the planet, and if we wa nt damaging to the planet, and if we want to ensure that the planet succeeds, they will have to help those countries by paying money to assist them in the way in which their economies evolve so that they don't have to do the things that we re don't have to do the things that were done in our industrial revolution to their countries in the future. we already are investing £11 billion in assisting other countries to manage that transition to a new economy. we have to be a country, like every other country, that manages resource far better. it may not be popular, but i think we are right to focus down on a single use plastic and all of these other issues where there is a tremendous amount of waste. sadly, we are almost out of time. i will invite each leader now to give a closing statement lasting up to 30 seconds, no longer. we drew lots to decide the speaking order. nicola sturgeon is going first. on thursday, scotla nd is going first. on thursday, scotland 's future is on the line. a

tory government would mean a hardback set, jobs will be at risk, poverty will rise and the nhs will be on the line. it will mean a prime minister who has shown himself and trustworthy and not fit for office. scotla nd trustworthy and not fit for office. scotland can help stop all of that. a vote for the snp can knock boris johnson out of downing street and provide an escape route from brexit and it will put scotland's 's future into scotland to 's hands so we can build a better future. vote snp on thursday. thank you. willie rennie. and i think the audience for a feisty debate. you have heard that the lib dems speak for the majority who want scotland in the uk and the eu. we have had enough of the economic damage and division, but you now have the power in your hands to make it stop. let's focus on what matters. things like the climate emergency, mental health, childcare, growing the economy. if you want a

brighter future, they'd lib dems. willie rennie, thank you. richard leonard? as you have heard tonight, only labour and sweep borisjohnson out of office on thursday. and only labour can get to work this friday to scrap universal credit, introduce a £10 an hour minimum wage, defend and invest in our national health service, and give the people the final say on brexit. and the only way to elect a labour government is to vote labour. and when labour wins, scotland wins. mr leonard, thank you. the person who got the honour of telling last and getting the last word is jackson carlaw. honour of telling last and getting the last word is jackson carlawm looks like it will still be chucking it down for many of us over the next 48 hours, but don't let that stop you getting out to date. on friday, do you wantjeremy corbyn in number

ten with nicola sturgeon pulling the strings and a divisive second independence referendum? if your a nswer independence referendum? if your answer is no, the only party with the strength to stand up for you is the strength to stand up for you is the scottish conservatives. i am asking you to lend us your fate on thursday. say no to a second independence referendum. tell her again. vote conservative if thursday. thank you to all of our panel for what has been a rousing debate, even if we didn't get the a nswer to debate, even if we didn't get the answer to absolutely everything, and at least the audience got a chance to look you in the eye and ask their questions. the bbc scotland channel is the place to get instant reaction to what you have heard in the debate tonight. we will be live from the spin room shortly in cannot read nine. there is still campaign coverage online, a guide to all the

party manifestos and all the candidates standing in your area. if you want to check up on anything said tonight, reality check will be doing that online as well. for now, good night. -- £2 —— £2 million spent so far.

hello, i'm ros atkins, this is outside source. democrats in congress have laid out the charges to impeach donald trump. he has the committee on the judiciaries offering to articles of impeachment charging the president of united states, donald trump, with committing high and misdemeanors. congress is now likely to vote on the articles of impeachment before christmas — mr trump says he expects to be exonerated on what he calls "false cha rg es". they had to apologise or totally a conservative friend that there is no way labour can be victorious. no

joshing, as old friends