Skip to main content

tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  January 7, 2020 12:30am-1:00am GMT

12:30 am
commander qasem soleimani whose assassination was ordered by president trump. the procession has reached its final stage, as his body is taken to his hometown of kerman in south—eastern iran, where he will be buried in the coming hours. officials in australia have warned that blazes will "take off" again after a brief respite. they also said huge fires could meet to create a larger "mega blaze". and pictures from harbin in china are doing well on our website. they show how thousands of cubic metres of ice, taken from the city's frozen river, was transformed into works of art. artists from around the world gathered for the annual ice sculpting competition. that's all. stay with bbc world news. now on bbc news it's hardtalk.
12:31 am
welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. america's assassination of one of iran's top generals, qasem soleimani, has bred new fears of war gci’oss soleimani, has bred new fears of war across the middle east. the key protagonists are in washington and tehran, the main stage for the conflict may well be iraqi. he was assassinated in baghdad. iraq is under intense pressure to pick sides. my guest is ayad allawi who was the country's vice president twice. does the current crisis spell disaster?
12:32 am
ayad allawi, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much. thank you for having me on the show. we talk to you in the wake of the dramatic events that include of course, the assassination of qasem soleimani. did you see it coming? i saw things escalating, and i saw very clearly that there was serious threats from the ies based on what has happened to some of their bases in iraq, and what has happened to the embassy. the siege of the embassy, but we didn't expect this kind of thing to go undiscussed with the iraqi
12:33 am
government. whatever government we have. and this created a big splash in the overall, in the scene. you caught a big splash, it has prompted fury, of course in tehran but it has prompted mixed reactions in iraqi. we have seen anger but from some, we've also seen an element of celebration. so what are your feelings? what is your reaction? my reaction is that soldiers are there, they are supposed to fight. either you are victorious or you get killed and he was killed because of the american attack against them. are you saying that he had it coming to him)| you saying that he had it coming to him) i think so. you saying that he had it coming to him) ithink so. he you saying that he had it coming to him) i think so. he was expecting this. but you are saying the strike was legitimate? it was somehow the americans had the right‘s it was a war between americans and around.
12:34 am
this war was escalating by words, but tensions, and so on. by the various actions that happened here. and really it was coming out to this kind of result. there will be attacks on certain veg —— individuals. the prime minister of iraqi, said that the strike against qasem soleimani was a brazen violation of iraqi's sovereignty, a blatant attack on iraqi's dignity. you seem to be saying something differently. this of course, it should have been taken this kind of action taken by the iraqi government. there was no consultation. it was done and this... the sovereignty of iraq, there is no question d about this. the problem is i see it is what will follow after this incident, what in
12:35 am
the coming days and weeks, what is preparing for. we've seen more threats coming from trump, we've heard the uranian government pledging vengeance. and your president, the president of iraqi, he said to the new york magazine that he fears iraqi will be embroiled in another cycle of conflict. it will have him, he said, terrible consequences for iraq. they are already embroiled. the conflict between iran and america is taking less indie rock. and i'm not a fan of iran, i have always stood against you run and i don't want to see this happening again. as iran take control of a rock. the problem is what is going to happen. what does
12:36 am
the conflict policy... they didn't have a post— conflict policy. now i'm not sure what they have. also not, i know this administration is different from the previous administrations. they do what they think is right as far as the american —— the americans are concerned because of this is important because managers see restoration of the world—class leadership in america as well as in other countries. hang on, i'm a little confused about what you're saying. donald trump is a is a different sort of american president. his shop. the administration. yes, but the point is this. he is issuing new threats. his talking about 52 says he will hit including ‘s cultural size in the run if the iranians use violence
12:37 am
in response. this is a precautionary statement. he doesn't want to run to retaliate in a serious way. and i think eran is looking for a way out of this problem because we have been following the visit of the foreigners. they play a significant trying to mediate. this domiciled in mediation, the iranians have said they are going to resume enrichment of uranium which is going to infuriate washington even more. iranians have pledged vengeance. they said they will be a response. people are suggesting possibility of war. a new and terrible war in the middle east. do you believe that this possibility‘s it's very much a possibility but was indian toys.
12:38 am
either defeating of one of the size of waror either defeating of one of the size of war or ultimately sitting around to negotiate. this will end up, now we are in this stage. i was going to go to war? or are we going to set america, iran and the rest to our problems and eggs ideas with a run, sit down and look at the future? do we wa nt sit down and look at the future? do we want a stable middle east or do we want a stable middle east or do we wa nt we want a stable middle east or do we want a stable middle east or do we want a middle east which has a lwa ys we want a middle east which has always had terminal. this is a was important, we should look forward, to what should be done. this is the issue which statements can emanate from america to iran, but you don't know how much this segment could carry weight,. he said in essence the us and iran are playing out
12:39 am
their war. does that mean iraqi has to pick a side in this fight? yes. they cannot stand on its own. it doesn't have a strong government was not it hasn't got a strong army, the army was abolished in the beginning of 2003 after occupation and they don't have an army or militia. so if you have to bigger which side would you... you notice as of course. you would side with the united states? you would do whatever it takes —— ta kes to you would do whatever it takes —— takes to keep the relationship. with united states and the free world, course, absolutely. so you've got a big problem. the parliament hasjust voted by 170 votes to zero, the many parties refused to vote, and hundred
12:40 am
and 70 votes— zero two demand that all us forces leave iraq. as a result of the donald trump is that if that happens, i'm going to put punishing stations on iraqi. the rock is being squeezed right down. that's the role of the iraqi government. unfortunately, they could not stand for a self to defend the iraqi people. that's under the bridge of america and a run from the other side. i told the prime minister, they should have really a kind of programme, how to get rid of this and to create a balance, to protect iraqi and the unity of either the iraqi people. for now it's a matter of whether the government is going to do something. democracy was, from 2010, until 2018
12:41 am
which was a mockery... hang on, you set into last year as vice president ofa set into last year as vice president of a right, you are part of the system. i am part of the system but i refuse, the reason i serve was to do the reconciliation thing.“ i refuse, the reason i serve was to do the reconciliation thing. if i may say so, your do the reconciliation thing. if i may say so, your message do the reconciliation thing. if i may say so, your message today seems to me very confused. you are saying we must say elijah united states, come what may. but the problem is inside a country today there is immense fury at what the americans have just immense fury at what the americans havejust done. and many, many iraqis of all descriptions now want to see the americans out. authors 5000 troops, gone from a territory. it's more than 5000. it may be. this is for the government. iraq will suffer a lot of the americans ——
12:42 am
suffer a lot of the americans —— suffer unless the americans leave iraq. if we compose a policy is americans, they will compose policies towards iran, we have a lot of demonstrations taking place in the rock. they're not acknowledging the rock. they're not acknowledging the government of the parliament and there are 500 people are pleased so far, yesterday one of my people was killed, assassinated. far, yesterday one of my people was killed, assassinatedlj far, yesterday one of my people was killed, assassinated. i want to talk about the internal protests in a moment but let's stick with the diplomacy and the politics concerning the united states and around. we know that qasem soleimani builtan around. we know that qasem soleimani built an incredibly strong intelligence and military network inside your country, inside the rock. he used the people's mobilisation forces, use disconnections and the defence ministry and intelligence ministry to in essence control much of what was happening inside a rug. that's
12:43 am
right. we don't accept this, we don't accept iran domination of the rock. i don't excepts. do you have any choice) i have choices. we have choices to build a strong political process in iraq without leaving any iraqi out of the process. to create a good government and to create real democracy stop in 2010, by collision between americans and american administration and iran for doctor stood together against us. they get you out of power. they kept me out of power. i understand why you present them but the reality is that iran dominates much of iraqi's security intelligence policy today. you say we must change that. we must. but i don't see how you can change it the americans are planning to leave. the iraqi parliament is meant to keep them out. was
12:44 am
demonstrations are geared towards objectives. getting iran out of influences over —— getting it right out of the rock groups who are in sectarianism. the rockers are fed up with interferences and they don't like interference from orion. and you can see the consulate and ambassador, that's why you run has to resort to really acknowledging a neighbour. sure the impact of the killing of qasem soleimani is to actually strengthen iran's drip —— grip on iraq because more than ever now the iranians cedar leveraged in iraqi is something they can use against the americans. for example, we have seen some of the militia forces pa g e we have seen some of the militia
12:45 am
forces page to attack american troops, american targets inside a i’ug troops, american targets inside a rug if the americans refused to leave. if the americans leave, you know it will happen to a rock. it will be controlled completely by iran. complete the. thus number one, number two, iran. complete the. thus number one, numbertwo, iran, if america iran. complete the. thus number one, number two, iran, if america still possesses a lot of the average on iraqi politics, especially the transferral funds iraqi politics, especially the tra nsferral funds which are iraqi politics, especially the transferral funds which are going to the account in new york. this can be also blocked by the americans. so what you think when you heard donald trump if few hours ago say this, if iraqi was ——if iraq asked us forces to depart on unfriendly bases will charge them sanctions like they have never seen before. actions look tame.
12:46 am
i don't think this was a clever statement. i think it would have said that we want to engage a rock ina said that we want to engage a rock in a positive way. we want to engage also iran in a positive way and create the atmosphere rate for stability and security in the middle east. the statement should be geared this way. but that is your problem, you want to work with the americans, you want to work with the americans, you regard the partnership with america as central to iraq's future, but you are working with a president who many iraqis deeply distrust, they saw what he did for example to his erstwhile allies in kurdish militias in northern hejust abandoned them when he didn't have any interest in them anymore. abandoned them when he didn't have any interest in them anymorem abandoned them when he didn't have any interest in them anymore. it is not about trusting donald trump or not, it's a matter ofjudging where the american policy is going. let me tell you something very important. we feel, by and large in iraq, that
12:47 am
the americans have contributed to the americans have contributed to the victory of iran on iraq. from 2010 and until now, there was a kind of corporation, maybe not an organised corporation, with common objectives. that is why we don't wa nt objectives. that is why we don't want any objectives. that is why we don't wantany iranian objectives. that is why we don't want any iranian influence. we can deal with the american influence, we can deal with the security council, through the europeans, through the uk. what do you do in the short run? because we know the americans are fortifying their embassy, they've got special forces, troops on standby in the region. they have stopped their cooperative work against islamic state in iraq because at the moment they are focused on protecting themselves. what to do in the short term, we have to de—escalate. stop this kind of statements which inflame the
12:48 am
situation, and find a political way to try and quiet the situation, and work with others in the region and the world and try to find a way out of this mess and keep iran at bay, not to be influencing and controlling iraq or any other state. but let me quote to you a couple of people whose view is very different from yours, who are iraqis. one of the most powerful men in iraq right now because he heads up the sheer militia organisation closely allied to iran. he says that we must now fight to expel foreign troops from iraq. a member of the coalition, a militia leader, he says all of our fighters are now on high alert for winning a great victory, the
12:49 am
marketed commander the iraqi militia leader killed with qasem soleimani, will be avenged. we will achieve the com plete will be avenged. we will achieve the complete and who america's presents in iraq. these are iraqis, they are sheerjust as in iraq. these are iraqis, they are sheer just as you in iraq. these are iraqis, they are sheerjust as you are sheer, and now they want to fight a war. but these are emotional statements, not practical statements, and when you come to the reality, even iran wa nted come to the reality, even iran wanted to negotiate with the united states and other european countries on the issue of the nuclear issue. and now, isaw on the issue of the nuclear issue. and now, i saw the foreign minister in baghdad. and he said we want to settle down issues. but things have changed since then stopping nobody is sitting down with each other right now. but they said the day
12:50 am
before yesterday, the foreign minister did notjust go for a vacation, he went to explore the possibility of... and i noticed also, that there are, some of the state m e nts also, that there are, some of the statements are a bit watered down from iran. you perhaps are an optimist. i am an optimist. before we end this interview i want to talk about the situation in iran. the situation that has been running for many months, 400 or may be more deaths at the hands of iraq security forces as protesters demand reform, anticorruption forces as protesters demand reform, anticorru ption efforts, change inside your country. will these protests continue now that the situation in the region is so ten? they will continue, definitely. they have continued yesterday and there was a clash on the ceremonies of
12:51 am
burying some of the people who were killed in the american rate, and there were clashes in syria and shootings between demonstrators, and demonstrators took the control of these popular mobilisation. so yes this will continue because the iraqi people don't want to see foreign interference in their country. you think the fundamental root cause of the popular uprisings is anger at iranian influences. absolutely, it is one of the major objectives is the anger of the iranians, and the slogans that have been shunted by the demonstrators, for example, iran, get away from us, we are now
12:52 am
liberated. these are the chanting is of the demonstrators. iran exceeded the normal... we know they will have some influence, that is acceptable. but to that extent it is not acceptable. ever since 2003 in the toppling of saddam hussein, iraq's politics has been dominated by secretary and is. and the country is so divided, there is so much mistrust that the country cannot find a cohesive unit. and in fact and after 2005, the secretariasm prevailed in the country, and the government officials, i did whatever ican do government officials, i did whatever i can do to retrieve everything and put the political process back again. but that is the point, you
12:53 am
area again. but that is the point, you are a shia politician who has always tried to reach out to sunnis, to kurds, if they may say so, you have failed. no i have not failed. both of the policies have failed in iraq. they agreed amongst themselves, that they should stop me from trying even to form a government in 2010. in 2012 we wanted to cast a vote of no—confidence. iran stood against us. but the truth is, whether you we re us. but the truth is, whether you were robbed of power or not. the iraqi people, their vote and the credibility in their mind by both the administration of the american decision and the iranians... but here we sit today, you are not in
12:54 am
power, no matter what happened in 2010 stopping the tension and iraq is higher than ever before. there is a possibility of iran in the united states playing out there conflict on your territory but you say you are still an optimist. i am an optimist. i was still an optimist. i am an optimist. iwas in still an optimist. i am an optimist. i was in the hospital suffering between death and life here in iraq when i was attacked by saddam's people. many years ago. in the wea kest of people. many years ago. in the weakest of the hours i never gave up hope, i said one day we will see the end of saddam, and we will build a iraq suitable for all iraqis, and all iraqis should be part of this. when the occupation took place, there was a series of laws that weakened... but you think it still can happen? i think it can yes. we
12:55 am
have two end there, thank you. thank you. hello. we've got multiple areas of low pressure to deal with across the uk this week. monday's rain has cleared eastwards, but waiting in the wings is our next atlantic system, and this is going to bring severe gales across scotland and northern england through tuesday, heavy rain as well. that is only part of the story though, because we are also pulling up some very mild air. temperatures quite widely in the mid—teens, maybe even higher to the east of higher ground but it is the strength of the wind that we are concerned about through tuesday. severe gales across scotland and northern england, we have a met office yellow warning in place,
12:56 am
some disruption is possible. and with the wind also comes some heavy rain particularly across scotland, likely to linger through much of the day. easing from northern ireland through the afternoon, some of that rain getting into northern england, north wales, maybe into south—west england through the afternoon, further south and east things stay mainly dry if cloudy. a few brighter skies through the eastern side of england through the morning. some very windy conditions through tuesday particularly across scotland, gusts 60—70 miles an hour, maybe 75 for some northern and western coast but very mild particularly to the east of higher ground. strong gusty winds across northern england and north wales, 30—40 mile an hour gusts across much of central southern england and into wales, the strongest winds are really across northern england and scotland but likely to bring some disruption. as we go through tuesday evening we keep those strong winds across scotland, starting to ease further south, we have got a band of cloud and rain sliding its way southwards, that rain becoming increasingly patchy. wintry showers starting to develop across scotland and quite a range
12:57 am
in temperature come first thing wednesday morning. very mild across central southern england and wales, turning colder further north. there are still some strong winds across scotland as we go into wednesday, keep an eye on this system here, pushing some rain into south—west england later in the day on wednesday. most of us will see some sunshine around on wednesday. legacy of cloud clearing from southern england through wednesday morning, wintry showers piling into scotland, and through wednesday afternoon we start to see cloud and rain starting to nudge into wales and south—west england. still in some fairly mild air across central southern england and into wales, double figures here, but much colder further north again with those wintry showers across scotland. thursday is a very messy day, most of us will see some spells of rain, still some wintry showers across scotland. that will ease away and briefly on friday, this ridge of high pressure building, bringing quieter, drier days. so for the end of the week, further rain, particularly on thursday, the winds easing, and drier and colder on friday.
12:58 am
12:59 am
1:00 am
welcome to newsday on the bbc. i'm sharanjit leyl in singapore. the headlines: huge crowds gather in iran to mourn general soleimani who was killed by us forces — his coffin arrives has arrived in his birthplace of kerman ahead of his funeral. i'm lucy hockings live in wandandian in new south wales where firefighters are in a race against time with hot, windy weather forecast for later in the week. i'm kasia madera in london — also in the programme. an indonesian man — declared the worst serial rapist in british criminal history has been jailed for a minimum of 30 years. disgraced movie producer harvey weinstein faces charges

53 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on