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stephen sackur with hardtalk. welcome to a special edition of hardtalk, from the worship studio of britain's best known, most successful sculptor, sir antony gormley. now even if you don't know his name, you may well have seen his work, because his monumental pieces, put in prominent positions in outdoor spaces, have become some of the world's most famous examples of public art stop is inspiration is the human body, in fact, his own body. so what is his work telling us about his relationship with the world around him?

antony gormley, thank you so much for inviting us into your studio. as a studio, but it actually feels like a studio, but it actually feels like a workshop, doesn't it?” a studio, but it actually feels like a workshop, doesn't it? ithink it isa a workshop, doesn't it? ithink it is a factory. as a place where we make things. and things are being made and tested all the time. very nice to have you had stop by throughout your career, you have focused on the human form, the body, but not so much representative are, more trying to say something else about the body, trying to explain that. for me, in history, certainly in western art, the body has been a lwa ys in western art, the body has been always thought of as a representation, usually of a hero or a sexy woman. and i'm more interested in the idea of the body as the place we live, our primary habitation. so with something like this, i guess, habitation. so with something like this, iguess, i'm habitation. so with something like this, i guess, i'm applying to the

body, in a sense, the spaces that we usually encounter outside of us as oui’ usually encounter outside of us as our architectural context. and yet here it is, these open cubes used to both activate but also inhabit a human space in space. it is always so human space in space. it is always so interesting, looking at your work, that it inhabits a space that isa work, that it inhabits a space that is a sort of space you inhabit, i'm in is the same height as you. was this, like so much of your work, drawn from an initial scan or impression of your own physical self? yes, absolutely. everybody work starts from a capturing of a lived moment of human time. and i work with my own body with, as a way, the closest bit of the material world there is, to me, and, furthermore, i.e. inhabit it. ican

work on it from the inside, from what it feels like. and i think that's the radical, in a way, proposition of the work that here is something that starts in with experience, with a moment of ca ptu red experience, with a moment of captured being, rather than appearance and the distance between an artist and a model. appearance and the distance between an artist and a modelli appearance and the distance between an artist and a model. i want two, if we may, just move around the studio workshop a little bit, because it gives me a sense of how you work. for example, here we got what i guess is a classic metal drill. a nice drill, a pillow drill. we rely on bits of stuff like this. this is a bit of kit made in britain, probably in the mid— 30s. this comes from the heartland of british engineering. but you know what's funny, the le sommer ‘s or a bit of kit like this was in a blacksmiths. anna just wrote me that he you are, the famous artist, but

actually day today you and your team are wielding tools, your crafting materials, there is a duality there, how do you do the physical labour, the technical stuff, but also apply your imagination, your dreams to all of that? i think that is what artists and art have always done, it used the available materials and methods of making two, yeah, transform things, perhaps. this material, for example, is common to us. material, for example, is common to us. we see it in every bit of engineering, but now it's being used for something else stop and i think the same is true of this. and this is where the drilling machine comes m, is where the drilling machine comes in, because there's probably 2000 holes that have been drilled in this which have then been riveted together, to the point where you actually know how this thing is put together at all. no, they would have

a clue looking at it. but what they do know, looking at a lot of your work, is there is an extraordinary work, is there is an extraordinary work of labour in it and some of it is on work of labour in it and some of it isona work of labour in it and some of it is on a vast scale and i'm thinking now about how your career has evolved, you know, from being a struggling young artist in a small studio on your own to this vast sort of worship that you've got with a tea m of worship that you've got with a team of people. how different does it feel now? i think that everything that begins and finishes here begins and ends with my engagement. so that pa rt and ends with my engagement. so that part of it hasn't changed. in the beginning it was me, my wife, who still works here in the studio. now this creative tribe, essentially, there are about 20 of us, all of whom or the majority of whom are artists, they have their own studios, we evolve this work

together. and later on today we will be looking at the latest ideas for the next show which will be in spring in paris together, and really induce it. one thing that struck me as different, though, i know you said once that in the early days of your work you would end the day physically knackered, having been beating metal and mixing plaster all day, you went to bed exhausted. now, because you've scaled up and you do have esteem with you, you don't have quite the same physical investment in each and every piece. and they just wonder if that changes, it makes you more detached when you look at the worker? i don't think i'm any more detached from the work. however, the confusion between emotional involvement and the amount of energy and effort has ceased. and i think of energy and effort has ceased. and ithink i'm of energy and effort has ceased. and i think i'm able to be considerably more demanding on the work and i

think that is the result of two things. i think that is the result of experience, but also this thing of experience, but also this thing of learning how to make, learning how to make things that cohere, learning how to things that will last a long time. i'm in, many of the works that we make our cast. they usually take about 53 seconds oi’ they usually take about 53 seconds or under 53 seconds to cast, from the latest and most fragile material to something that will last 1000 yea rs. to something that will last 1000 years. well, i'm very proud of that. and we've evolved that ability to manipulate material over the last a0 yea rs. manipulate material over the last a0 years. they say we now, because it isn't just years. they say we now, because it isn'tjust me years. they say we now, because it isn't just me beating years. they say we now, because it isn'tjust me beating lead, it's me smelting iron at 1300dc. and a final thought for here, because i know we will talk more in your studio, but how easy is it for you to, as we sort of wander through and look at all of the materials and there's devices and the drills and the work

desks, and over here we've got all the sort of stray pieces of wood that you've used and there is, inu, stacks of metal rods all over, how easyis stacks of metal rods all over, how easy is it for you, here, to imagine what your pieces are going to look like when they're in situ, so very farfrom this workshop, like when they're in situ, so very far from this workshop, from like when they're in situ, so very farfrom this workshop, from central london, some of them end up in public spaces in cities, some end up on big as and hilltops, how do you, in your mind, imagine the final result? i have to see, stephen, that the diagnosis of site is as important, ina the diagnosis of site is as important, in a way, that capturing a feeling in the body. and the best results come from a marriage between the two. so, i'vejust done results come from a marriage between the two. so, i've just done a big show at the are a, with just spent four years trying to understand those volumes and what made them special, and obviously the most

incredible thing that makes them special is there a height and the fa ct special is there a height and the fact that they are blessed with natural light stop and that's what i tried to honour. i'm in, basically i was trying to energise these spaces andi was trying to energise these spaces and i think that a good exhibition, but also a good permanent placement of sculpture, is one in which you can't think of the place without the object and you can't think of the object and you can't think of the object without its site. what is expected of us as a viewer when looking at one of these things? welcome i want to talk about that more. . . welcome i want to talk about that more... these are still objects that in bite us to look around. yeah, think about how they're made. -- invite us. you say you cannot appreciate it unless you can move around. and that is the mystery and magic of sculpture to me. here is this still, silent thing that encourages us this still, silent thing that encourages us to move. and in moving our bodies to move our minds. right. and i think in an age in which, we

live in a digital age, in a cyber society in which the appearance and images are so instant and so cheap and so instantly obsolescent, so what is it that's got to give you? it gives you a time and a place that is still. -- sculpture. you could argue that you are fighting against the spirit of the age. no, because these could be made digital technology. well, there's a twist. they want to take you back to the roots of your artistic sensibility. where would you place them?” suppose, aged six, at home in hampstead garden suburb, messing about with drawing and painting and immediately, i think, about with drawing and painting and immediately, ithink, making about with drawing and painting and immediately, i think, making things, and particularly making messes. and then, i guess, and particularly making messes. and then, iguess, being and particularly making messes. and then, i guess, being taken by my dad to his favourite painting at the

national gallery, which was the nativity. because your dad was a real art lover. it mattered to him. it mattered a lot. it's strange, we didn't have that many original paintings in the house, but we did have, you know, every reproduction ofa have, you know, every reproduction of a fra angelico. the annunciation was in my bedroom. it is interesting that you mention that, because there isa that you mention that, because there is a lot of religiosity in your family as well. a deep catholic faith and they sent you to a catholic boarding school. and as a kid were you a believer? did you see yourself as... i thinki kid were you a believer? did you see yourself as... i think i was intensely engaged, if you like, in the imaginative promise of catholicism. so the idea of being in a state of grace or being in a state

of sin was something that possessed me. and they used to have nightmares about the state of my soul. why would see this soul, it was like a great big damn thing with terrible kind of spots in it that would haunt me at night —— damp. it was a terrifying thing, i think, to a young and imaginative person to have, as it were, the heaven and hell dialect dick really kind of dumped new —— dialectic. hell dialect dick really kind of dumped new -- dialectic. but when i've looked at your work, and what you say about it, and what you demand of your audience, your viewers, it seems to me that there isa viewers, it seems to me that there is a different kind of sort of spiritual feeling, it's is a different kind of sort of spiritualfeeling, it's much more contemplative, it demands silence and almost meditation, which makes

me wonder, you know, did you move away from catholicism, and i know you spent some time in india, did you spent some time in india, did you come close to embracing, i don't know, autism, that's dial of spirituality? absolutely. i found... if you just compare the two icons, theicon if you just compare the two icons, the icon of the crucifixion, the body in suffering, and the icon of the border, but in meditation, i think you have their a very good illustration of why i was drawn to buddhism. the idea that it isn't somebody else's horrendous and tortured that is going to redeem you, it's you coming to terms with your own consciousness. and, yeah, certainly my time in india was absolutely critical to everything that they have done since. that experience was very important to you. you come back, you commit to

art, go to art school, start working but you are struggling for quite a long time to meet and ——to make and meet. i did not have a gallery in london until 1991. i did not really show much in london until 1993 so it was those early years... were problematic. i was lucky enough i had a teaching position. i told taught two days a week at brighton couege taught two days a week at brighton college of art in this culture department and that was enough to live on. i wonder if a part of you found the artworld and commercialising your work and selling it, and in a sense telling us, quite difficult. your own brother talked about this and he said, my reading of what was happening was that he found it difficult having a marketing man controlling his work. you could have

gone about his career very differently but he was adamant he wa nted differently but he was adamant he wanted to be his own master and in doing so he was, in a way, uncommercial. was that two of you for a while? yes, i think i was approached by galleries that i refused to work with because i felt that i was made to perform in a culture industry and i wanted the work to be exploratory and i wanted it to be my projects. i really am thankfulfor it to be my projects. i really am thankful for that. i have it to be my projects. i really am thankfulfor that. i have not been, as it were, assumed into the canon of whatever is fashionable and the work has been an evolution in itself. that is really interesting that you say you never sought or desired to be fashionable but, in a funny sort of way, you have become fashionable. these days, antony gormley projects are big and use and

the major exhibition you have had in london, and a huge publicity, vast numbers of people went to see, you are now extremely fashionable in a way. i am not sure i am fashionable. iam way. i am not sure i am fashionable. i am really encouraged by the response that the royal academy show has had. absolutely extraordinary to see how engaged people were and i just... iam see how engaged people were and i just... i am so thankfulfor see how engaged people were and i just... i am so thankful for the fa ct just... i am so thankful for the fact that i have not been, as it were, commodified and if that actually, that early instinct that i had of rather than putting the work ina had of rather than putting the work in a gallery ijust wanted to put it by the seashore, near my childhood kind of summer home and see what it did see what it did for me and other people walking by and that is still to me, you did not need a gallery.

it is an extraordinary thing. you make something, you put it in the world and you see what happens. that is so interesting about some of your most famous work, the angel of the north, more than 20 metres high over the north—east of england, or the amazing 100 strong group of men staring out to sea over crosby in the north—west of england, this is public art. who asked for art to be privatised? public art. who asked for art to be privatised ? art public art. who asked for art to be privatised? art is a gift. i am amazed that i am allowed to live the life that i live. i want to share and does not make any sense... do you have to compromise? this is not a people are going to pay to come and see, it is just a people are going to pay to come and see, it isjust going to be a people are going to pay to come and see, it is just going to be that if they happen to be in the vicinity. do you have to compromise to make it appealed to the widest

possible audience? no, i do it because i have to do it. i hope that it will make a connection with people. i hope that it doesn't deal with the big issues, you know, body and space, life and death, darkness and space, life and death, darkness and light, really simple, these are the poles in which our consciousness resides. i want to engage people with that. there is no compromise. you have always said that you expect quite a lot from your viewers, your audience. you do not want art to be easy, you wanted to actually be challenging and maybe even difficult. does that apply to everything you do? i mean, the angel of the north, for example, is that difficult? i think the angel of the north is a unique experiment. here isa north is a unique experiment. here is a community that has been told it has no future... the post-industrial

north—east of england. has no future... the post-industrial north-east of england. the end of coal mining and shipbuilding was dying and, in fact, within three yea rs, dying and, in fact, within three years, it had been close. the question that i asked myself was, is it possible to make it work ——to make a work that can be the focus of collective hope for the future? and yes, it is totemic. it goes to a premodern idea of an object. almost like a totem pole, that talks about the continuity of a community. like a totem pole, that talks about the continuity of a communitym strikes me that, with the kind of recognition that came with angel of the north, and another pace in merseyside on the seashore, you fell into that thing which seems to me sometimes happens to artists that, when they become really celebrated and awarded and everything else, there are critics who then say, they are bland, they have ceased to challenge, they have fallen into a

trap of seeking popularity, when critics dash and some do say that review... there is an absolute difference between popular and populist. the fact that people engage with my work, as far as i am concerned, is a tribute to its releva nce. concerned, is a tribute to its relevance. i think we live in a very strange world in which, in a way, the recondite in art has been cerebral because it's difficulty and unique is selling point in areas of the market. i am not interested in those games at all. i think the space of art is precious to us in a time when both religion and politics have failed in terms of allowing us to be contributors to a collective future. do you feel that some of your work may be is getting increasingly political. personally,

i looked at for example a couple of your works, the extraordinary image of those statues looking out to sea in merseyside and then the piece called post at the royal academy, with the seawater, and expanse of seawater put into the exhibition with the distance doorway but perhaps a sense of the sea flooding or inundating human creation. i read it as something that could be about something about man's vulnerability to climate change and changes around us. am i right to send messages in some of the work? message i think is putting it too heavily. i wanted to bring the outside in. i wanted the primal, elemental conditions of life to be brought within the context of culture. here is the unformed, he reasoned sea, mud and air presented,

removed all electricity from that room, and we were invited to have a relationship with that in a digital age that is important. this is the place out of which we came and these are the elements that have fallen in the age of the nephropathy into our handsis the age of the nephropathy into our hands is really those responsible for the future of this planet. it has never happened before that the activity of one species has destabilised the geological era of our time. and i destabilised the geological era of ourtime. and i think destabilised the geological era of our time. and i think that, when i say, the space of art becomes precious, i think that final room in the ra was asking us to think about our position in time and space and our position in time and space and our responsibility to the future. our position in time and space and our responsibility to the futurem that sense, do you think art can

deliver cultural, political change? can it change anything? i do not think it can deliver it, it can simply provide the space, the resonating chamber in which perhaps the will to be creatively responsible for, as it were, the future can arise. that is what i hope, that is what i leave at‘s primary purposes now and the extraordinary thing we have seen in the last 30 years is that britain has a somewhat resistant culture, primarily a literary culture, has blossomed into the most extraordinary and globally recognised visual culture and i think that is because art is now dealing with life. it is dealing with not itself and its own language. the 20th century was a

time of ismsl it which are celebrated many languages the 21st century is when art believes to really focus on life and its evolution. antony gormley thank you very much for inviting us into your studio. stephen, thank you very much for coming. it has been a real pleasure. hello. sunday was a pleasant day across many parts of the british isles. a number of rainbows, this one across dartmoor for a time, through the afternoon. but things are going to change really radically. sta rt to change really radically. start of the week, very windy, really very wet indeed for a time. the weather coming in from the west to south—west for the greater part

of the week so it will be mild though it won't seem like that to start the new day on monday. not many of you scraping the windscreens. temperatures in the range of one to about six, but the reason for the change, a very deep area of low pressure. central pressure around about 9a0 millibars — thatis about 9a0 millibars — that is very deep indeed and that means a lot of wind and that means a lot of wind and that means a lot of wind and that is the first thing you will notice about monday and increasingly through the day out west, through northern ireland, and then increasingly towards the estern side of scotland, through wales, down into the south—west of england. very wet weather indeed. it takes time before we see that rain over towards the east. a bit of brightness here. you will lose it slowly. 10 degrees or so but it is the strength of the wind that we have to concentrate on. as much as 65 mph out through the irish sea. maybe 70mph up the estern side of the british isles. a5mph increasing to 70mph. and look at this, before the day is done, we could record 85 miles per hour and that would be hugely disruptive to travel plans and it is the sort of day

where you might lose the power if a tree comes down in the wrong place. the low pressure is still there. the low pressure is still there. the wind incessant across the northern part through the night. 0n northern part through the night. on tuesday, a dry enough start to many. showers across western scotland. another pulse of mild air bringing rain up and across a good pa rt rain up and across a good part of england and wales. and northern ireland. some hill snow for scotland notice, 13—1a degrees but againa notice, 13—1a degrees but again a gusty wind. 0n but again a gusty wind. on wednesday, the wind still a feature, squally showers across northern and north—western parts of scotland but once the rain is away from the south—east, it isa is away from the south—east, it is a quieter and drier day. with some sunshine and feeling that tad fresher. the thing you will be pleased about is that the wind will have eased at least for a time because here we go again on thursday. the wind coming in from the south this time. still plenty of it and some really quite heavy rain.

flirting in the western side of the british isles. pulses of rain spreading further towards the east. it is as far ahead as friday before we see the first signs ofa before we see the first signs of a ridge of high pressure moving in from the atlantic to quieten things down.

i'm rico hizon in singapore, the headlines: iran's leaders under pressure, after more protests over the shooting down of a passenger jet. 57 canadians died — prime ministerjustin trudeau paid his respects and promised justice. we will not rest until there are answers. we will not rest until there is justice and accountability. thousands are told to leave their homes in the philippines, as a volcano spews out a massive cloud of ash near manila.