this is bbc news. the headlines: formal impeachment charges against president trump have been signed by senior democrat nancy pelosi at a ceremony on capitol hill. the decision means a trial is likely to start next week. mr trump is unlikely to be removed from office as his republican party have a majority in the senate. major financial markets in the us have closed at record highs after the signing of a partial trade deal between america and china. the us called off some planned tariffs on chinese goods, while beijing agreed to increase purchases of us exports. climate scientists have confirmed that the past decade was the hottest on record. nasa and the uk met office say last year was the second warmest since 1850. they blame rising levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and warn of more extreme weather events to come.

now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm sarah montague. my guest today freely admits to being a spy. not for any government, but for the private investigators black cube. it is one of the companies harvey weinstein hired to investigate his accusers. seth freedman posed as a journalist to gather information for mr weinstein, and says he was just doing his job, and that someone has to do it. but do they, and who polices this billion—dollar shadowy world of private intelligence?

seth freedman, welcome to hardtalk. hi. now, spies would normally want secrecy, hi. now, spies would normally want secrecy, but you started the year by writing an article in the sunday times talking about your work for black cube. why go so public?|j times talking about your work for black cube. why go so public? i was quite happy to stay in the shadows, and then ronan farrow and jody ka nter and then ronan farrow and jody kanter outed me on their books about the harvey weinstein case and their role in it. and it was their investigation into those women who had allegations of sexual assault against harvey weinstein, who of course, is on trial in new york at the moment. he denies the allegations. but you did, with this article, decide actually to be perhaps much more open than you might otherwise have been. can you explain your thinking?” might otherwise have been. can you explain your thinking? i think it is important for people to demystify this sector, and rather than the

lurid headlines of ronan farrow claiming he needed to get a gun for his own protection, and all the things that helped sell books, which is what they have been doing in the last few months, instead to actually talk about what the industry is, how actually mundane it is, often, and also to talk about its reach into everyday life. so rather than just focusing on hollywood and the weinstein allegations, and so on, just to actually talk about the industry and say it is as run—of—the—mill as having a defence tea m run—of—the—mill as having a defence team orany run—of—the—mill as having a defence team or any other litigation support that you might require in the case. 0k, that you might require in the case. ok, so people understand the harvey weinstein case, and you were employed to work for him. he was the client. can you explain to us what it was that you did for him? so originally black cube had been contacted originally black cube had been co nta cted by originally black cube had been contacted by harvey weinstein through his lawyers, and he claimed that there was a plot to oust him from his company. he thought his brother was behind it, he thought that various other high executive level people were scheming to get

rid of him. and that's quite a standard job in the corporate intelligence space. you have a dispute between powerful businesspeople, and our job dispute between powerful businesspeople, and ourjob to find out actually is there a problem going on. so the original list of names that he came to black cube that were fed to me was around six oi’ that were fed to me was around six or seven people, most of the men, a couple of women in there as well, and they were all very high level people in the wayne steen company or close to it. —— weinstein company. and what was yourjob? my job was to find out what people are saying into her, and i wouldn't know if i was the only one investigating this or ifi the only one investigating this or if i was one of many other operatives involved. because it is a very cell like structure, a bit like in the army. you are told what you need to know, and that's it. ok, because it has since been reported that the contract that he paid black cube $1.3 billion, —— that the contract that he paid black cube $1.3 billion, -- $1.3 that the contract that he paid black cube $1.3 billion, —— $1.3 million, which would have involved quite a lot of people working, one imagines. my lot of people working, one imagines. my rates aren't that high. and what you were doing was what? my job was to find out is person x talking

about harvey weinstein, colluding with personal way, are they talking to the press? what is going on? he wa nts to to the press? what is going on? he wants to understand is there a plot against him. how did you go about doing that? so because i have a journalism background, used to write for the guardian, and i was a whistleblower in financial markets. have had experience of writing and also of investigative work. so i am good at getting close to people and extracting a piece of information thatis extracting a piece of information that is required. and my cover was being myself, because if i called someone being myself, because if i called someone and say i'm a journalist, i'm looking into a story about life in hollywood, they immediately would check ua exist? and i do exist, and i have to, because at that level they are not going to talk to a random stranger who appears. so they could find your byline in places like the guardian that also online. correct. and you had previously worked in the commodities market, where you had been wiretapped because there was an energy market manipulation, due whether whistleblower in that. so i was wearing a wire for the regulators. so in effect that was my debut at actually getting close to someone

without them knowing there's an ulterior motive, which is to extract the end information on behalf of the regulators, in that case, or harvey weinstein in this. 0k, regulators, in that case, or harvey weinstein in this. ok, so for example, someone weinstein in this. ok, so for example, someone who is well known in connection with the harvey weinstein story is the actress rose mcgowan. you contacted her saying you are a journalist. well, i am a journalist. 0k, you are a journalist. well, i am a journalist. ok, but you were not interested in her for journalist. ok, but you were not interested in herfor a story journalist. ok, but you were not interested in her for a story you we re interested in her for a story you were writing, were you? well, it's ambiguous. because on the one hand i don't deceive her and say i'm someone don't deceive her and say i'm someone that i am not, i say i used to write for the guardian. i go through identifying myself, and i tell her that i am interested in doing a story on life in hollywood, that i have been contacting people, whether it is catering staff, actors, actresses, executives, and i am doing a broad strokes piece on life in the industry now, compared to when people started out. but let's be clear, you weren't doing that. eula mackay wasn't doing that, no. you are wanting information, and you were successful? directs. and you were successful? directs. and you were successful because when you spoke to her you are asking her lots of questions during which she told

you about her allegation against harvey weinstein. yes, and if you listen to the tape, it is 75 minutes long. i obviously don't bring up weinstein at all, bigger than you are going to tip someone off. ijust say tell me your life and times. and to be honest, we got on very well. if you listen to the tape, there is a natural back—and—forth. at some point she brings up her allegations against weinstein. ijust point she brings up her allegations against weinstein. i just listen to it like i'm listening to everything else. we probably only touched on the topic for 90 seconds are a couple of minutes, and then it moves on and we're talking about other matters. presumably at that stage, if you didn't already know, you knew that perhaps what harvey weinstein was digging for was not about his brother. know, the brief never changed. the brief was there is a plot against me. her name, rose mcgowan's name, rather, appeared very early in the project, after a couple of months. and still it was predominantly men that were being investigated, people like steve nugent, who is now the treasury secretary. but you listen to the transcript of that recording, which as you say is quite wide—ranging,

and there is a point on it in which you say about the allegation, so what would make you kind of call it quits on whether she was going to go public? i genuinely took an interest in how first amendment law in america means that people can make allegations which they couldn't make here. i mean, you couldn't publish a book here accusing someone of doing something unless it was proven in court or you had hard evidence about it. and i wasjust court or you had hard evidence about it. and i was just fascinated court or you had hard evidence about it. and i wasjust fascinated by someone it. and i wasjust fascinated by someone who is saying i'm going to read this book and it is a tell all not just about harvey read this book and it is a tell all notjust about harvey but read this book and it is a tell all not just about harvey but about the whole industry and her experiences. and the implication that i was asking to find out what it would ta ke asking to find out what it would take for her to call it quits on behalf of him is just not true. no—one feeds me what to say, they just want to know what information is there. 0k, just want to know what information is there. ok, but why would you ask that, what would make you call it fits? i was just that, what would make you call it fits? i wasjust interested, genuinely interested in her, and she was going out on this crusade, and she is really making powerful enemies. notjust him, she is taking on the whole industry. and i did find it fascinating, from my point of view. all right. you also called annabella, who later went public in

the new yorker with a rape allegation against harvey weinstein, and she was immediately suspicious. she read about it and she told the new yorker it struck me as bs, and it seemed that he was testing me to see if i were talk —— annabella sciorra. that is an interesting point. i had to take the call, and she doesn't. i called her up and i said is that is sciorra, and she said is that is sciorra, and she said it is, and ifed her my usual story. i said said it is, and ifed her my usual story. isaid i said it is, and ifed her my usual story. i said i would like to talk to you about life in hollywood. she said ok, i am on holiday the moment cani said ok, i am on holiday the moment can i speak with you when i come back from holiday? when i contacted heragain, back from holiday? when i contacted her again, she didn't want to talk, she wasn't scared, she wasn't intimidated. all these things are easy to say because no—one is allowed to come back and defend themselves. i don't have to defend myself from a personal point of view but to defend myself with what actually happened rather than what makes good copy for the new yorker,

and so on. ok, but what i am interested in is your motivation. as you say, the brief never changed, but at some point the penny must have dropped with you about what information harvey weinstein was after. well, i never spoke to harvey myself. all i knew is here is a list, an ever—growing list, admittedly, that he had put together with names of people that he thought we re with names of people that he thought were plotting against him, scheming. at no point in any of this are we told he has been accused of sexual assault or whatever else. know, but the people you are speaking to us saying that. so i'm not sure what the question is. should i stop doing myjob the question is. should i stop doing my job because of the question is. should i stop doing myjob because of what people are saying to me? 0k, what i am wondering is what you understood or what you thought? i heard people accuse him of all kinds of things, not just of sexual assault. accuse him of all kinds of things, notjust of sexual assault. but again, iam notjust of sexual assault. but again, i am a cog in the machine. i am not here sitting there saying... my am not here sitting there saying... myjob isn't to moralise about it, in the same way that if you've got a defence lawyer, they have to get on and do theirjob. this is litigation support. that's all it is. that is why it exists. 0k, support. that's all it is. that is why it exists. ok, so yourjob was not, because it was perceived by some as possibly scaring off some of those who might go public. sorry to interrupt, this line of we were hired to silence, intimidate or

harass items, all of which were illegal, none of which happened, no—one can give an example in my place comic case in particular. rose mcgowan has one of the biggest platforms out there. was she intimidated by me? no, we got on like a house on fire and spoke for 75 minutes. did i harass her? no, i called her agent and asked if i can have the call and i had to call. it isa have the call and i had to call. it is a complete myth. so as you became aware of these allegations, did you think there is a whole wealth of allegations he and they deserve to be had in public, or did you just reservejudgement? be had in public, or did you just reserve judgement? you are talking about what i said to myself internally? yes. i mean, i am hearing these allegations, he has had a reputation decades—old which people didn't want to speak out about when the going was good. everyone knew these were open secrets anyway, so didn't change my opinion of what hollywood life is like at the top. now, rose mcgowan, who we spoke to a head of this interview, said seth freedman says he doesn't mind calling himself a spy. he doesn't mind calling himself a spy. 0f he doesn't mind calling himself a spy. of course not, being a spy sounds sexy. the reality is mr friedman was simply a recording boy

for a friedman was simply a recording boy fora human friedman was simply a recording boy for a human trafficking enterprise. rest easy, mr friedman. we do not see you as a spy. we see you as a bottom feeder who does the bidding of evil. what do you want to say -- what you want me to say to that? human trafficking organisation? there is no human trafficking going on. but i mean, i have no response to that. i literally couldn't care less. 0k, to that. i literally couldn't care less. ok, but let's put aside those words about human trafficking. the argument is you are just saying look, i was effectively hired gun, which i use as metaphor. it is interesting, if you are going to talk about the weinstein case, you have to put it in context of what corporate intelligences. if you want to talk about... not new personally, but if one does, —— not you personally. i will talk about how regulators use it and hedge funds use it and oligarchs, businesspeople, whoever it is. this is an outlier case. and i said to

someone is an outlier case. and i said to someone before, it is not even the tip of the iceberg. it is a totally separate iceberg, this weinstein case. what we were doing, day in, day out, is always the same brief. someone has some information that client wants to know about, in order to defend themselves or build their business or whatever it is. if this obsession with the #metoo story dominates it, i don't have much more to add. i have said quite happily that. but you have made the point that. but you have made the point that private intelligence, you have said, is the new normal. in recent yea rs said, is the new normal. in recent years it has exploded in size and scope, pointing out, actually, it is down to huge technological advances. sure, but i think spying is as old as humanity basically. people want to have an edge and we prurient natures and we want to know what people are doing sometimes, sometimes it is for personal reasons, sometimes it is for business reasons. i have said this before, and i think this is absolutely key. if rose mcgowan had hired black cube to look into harvey weinstein and we had uncovered all this information, we would be the heroes of the day. now, i don't care ifiama heroes of the day. now, i don't care if i am a hero or villain personally, but the idea that only the powerful can hire them and they prey on people is — it's amoral, in that sense. it's not about

judgement. but you yourself are quoted in ronan farrow‘s book and i know there is no love lost it when you, but he says when you are speaking to him in his book, catch and kill, it turned out that it was actually about sexual assault. we pulled back and said there is no way we're getting involved in this. how do we extricate ourselves, because he has hired us. so at some point it sounds, if this quote is accurate... it is not accurate. quite frankly, i saw ronan on your and he always puts this point out about the new yorker fa ct this point out about the new yorker fact checker, and i have the tapes of that fact checker fact checking, supposedly, with me, and they cut out most of the quotes. so there is no point when you thought i am not co mforta ble no point when you thought i am not comfortable being here. it is not my job to be comfortable, anymore than the lawyer's job to be comfortable. nothing has been in court. it i don't take a position, it is not my job to take a position. you took a position when you are in the energy

markets. you decided to be a whistleblower. but that was personal. your work is personal, is it not? you are choosing to do this job. what i am not going to do is sit here and say, do you know what? it is something that at the time no—one knew about this. there was no me to movement, none of this. all this people had sat on this open secret for years and do nothing with it, because of their careers. the only people who knew about it, were us only people who knew about it, were us at black cube, and suddenly we we re us at black cube, and suddenly we were the bad guys. this has been out there for years and years, these allegations. peoplejoked there for years and years, these allegations. people joked about it at 0scars acceptance speeches and on the red carpet and so on. but you do not accept that by working with mac three was part of a machinery keeping the stuff hidden? ididn't machinery keeping the stuff hidden? i didn't keep anything hidden. i've found someone who wants to publish a book of us to say x. so when we talk about the private intelligence world, the former director of mossad, who was on the company's advisory board, once pitched its services saying i could find a

personal mossad value, the israeli intelligence agency. the argument being that, effectively, you are employing spies. that's the way it works, is it? that's something it is proud to be? i am proud to be. well, black cube, or which have intelligence company. i'm wondering about this world and how it sells itself and, perhaps, the legality which it operates, because it's one thing to say, look, governments are doing something on our behalf, it's when it's private companies that people might wonder about the controls in place step yowei one thing efforts governments? we don't just say that all governments are legit and therefore they're allowed to spy, i think we take the opposite view, there are governments out there who are driven by radical, with agendas, communist, mike mr janner, who have a state apparatus inspires people. i'm not sure what the distinction is. wiping the fact

is that, it for example, and this is a very key example of the deed of harvard law school brent harvey once i's defence team listening, 18 months ago, and suddenly there is this way about how dare he joined harvey weinstein's defence team, eve ryo ne harvey weinstein's defence team, everyone is triggered on campus, they're all these peter scott and in they're all these peter scott and in the end is forced to resign from his post at harvard law school for having joined once in perspective on scene. had hejoined el chapo's defence team you would have heard of him and this is a man responsible for the death of hundreds of people. it is about due process and whether people have the right to defence teams and whether they have the right to investigators. people have the right. there is no law saying those investigators go and break the law, once you break the law it's open season. you have the right to hire them. the reason i'm putting one personality if you have an extra ordinary life story, really, you are writing, you wrote "i would proposed those who people think should be castigated, demonised, and shunt, in exactly the same as society does a

rapist". your personal view is very tough on people who pay for prostitutes. and then when there something you're involved with, which are being paid for... you'd like to believe, because the narrative, the gospel preached by the likes of roman, everybody involved with harvey weinstein, the eu made him a sandwich of the liszka with petrol, everyone who works with him is somehow implicated by what he has or hasn't done. no, it's purely that information becomes public so that information becomes public so that individuals have for that they have, who want to make an allegation, but they can so. and so if uso was coming out next week about you in the press and you knew who was speaking and who they were speaking to and your lawyers wanted a heads up so they could prepare you for the storm that's coming. what is the issue? the story is broke. no—one was oppressing the source. this is the myth that was propagated. they never suppressed the story. just found out who was

talking and people were prepared to tell me, i'm saying this in my upcoming book. to recognise that one of the effects, though, of the black cube agents in this case might been to silence people? it might not bring attention... if you can explain how they were trying to silence, i can way that up. so, if you make a phone call to somebody who later realises that you are not doing what you say you are doing, and they are fearful of perhaps being got out, they might not there and allegation public. being got out, they might not there and allegation publiclj being got out, they might not there and allegation public. i don't think thatis and allegation public. i don't think that is in this case, it might be the case in other situations. i think ross mcgowan has a very powerful. she had already said i'm going to publish this book. and she did publish this book. the whole story does not show any sign of intimidation at all. if you want to solvable to say i had mossad after had the sky had a gun. but none of that actually... can we turn to other cases then, other stories were private intelligence has operated to

get a sense of the sort of ways in which it operates? black cube has denied it, but nbc and the observer newspaper have said that they were hired to target advocates of the iran deal, the deal that was struck by president 0bama, was that a job that you knew anything about all we re that you knew anything about all were involved with? i know some details of it. i wouldn't go too deep into it, because of the actors who are involved in it. certainly there were officials from the 0bama administration were targeted and that's on the public record... targeted in what way? from the documents i have senator watt i understand of the case, whoever hired them and the general assumption is that is the trump administrative, the in—run matildas been torn up anyway, donald trump made no bones about the fact that he hated the will tear it up. but if it was him and he hates barack 0bama so much and legacy, was to show that

even fermenting a vigilante first place was done with corrupt practices at —— fermenting of the deal. two of the actors, ben rosanne colomo, who are in the 0bama administration key to this, if they might offer financial gain or some other impropriety was going on, then we can say, see, the deal, but only ami we can say, see, the deal, but only am i tearing it up, but it was instigated in the bad reasons. and with those looking for that information, be looking for facts and therefore that it was absolutely the case that there was some form of kickback or benefit, or are they looking for information that might in some way that was i think they would be looking for both. in some way that was i think they would be looking for bothlj in some way that was i think they would be looking for both. i think obviously the ultimate prize is if you can prove something. but then the second of people are talking about it and you canjoin dot. ultimately you are still looking into... it could just be a smear.” don't think they are employed to spare people, because they think if you start lying you straight areas

are breaking the law. the strangers you are talking about is you said you are talking about is you said you presume it was president trump, but president trump was sitting in the white house, why wouldn't he has his own, the government of the us intelligence services? he has the whole government system at his disposal. because could you imagine if they were caught spying on the previous administration and outsourcing something like this, and these are just allegations, but it has been pretty carefully tracked over the years, the hungarian government using the —— firms like black cube, various governments across the world to outsource things, they don't have to keep it all if someone says these guys are brilliant at what they do and will get thejob done... brilliant at what they do and will get the job done... so dechambeau of governments around the world that we re governments around the world that were the clients of black cube? i'm all governments around the world who are clients of companies like black cube, yeah, yeah so by because they

can't go to their own intelligence services? here's a good example. just hypothetical, israel wants to know what's going on in libya at the moment, what the legal situation is. can't call up and say hi, it's mossad, what's happening? if there isa mossad, what's happening? if there is a private firm who find that there is a dispute between the two directors at a state oil company in libya and want us to a firm like black cube and work for us, suddenly you have people writing the heart of the incoming, political system, businesses, and they can be fed back to whoever. it is almost like a trojan horse in that sense. so is it your understanding then that president trump hired blicavs to do work for him? it is what has been reported —— black cube. either speculate but it is not proof. so you don't regret at a big part of the wasting project, you don't regret, you don't apologise?” the wasting project, you don't regret, you don't apologise? i am not sure i should apologise —— harvey weinstein. tell me about your

life in hollywood. these are like long drawn out conversations, they often two or three... 0n the other thing is, if people want to fixate on it was only a chances targets, that a distortion and therefore not telling the full picture. i spoke to so telling the full picture. i spoke to so many male executives and people who will never get reported on, because doesn't want to tell the story, he wants you to think that he's leading the oppressed into the promised land and that this was a just a promised land and that this was a justa campaign promised land and that this was a just a campaign to silence of the voices. ijalana just a campaign to silence of the voices. ijala na was just a campaign to silence of the voices. ijalana was told at the beginning of this that people never change —— eye generally. when come out now. and kevin nash, jim watt have any regret? i regret being involved, it is a point this case to be involved in. if that really was his brief, and it was neverfed back to me, but if he had committed these crimes and said a have committed them now go and sons, that is really different to what actually happened. so why don't have any regrets that.

seth freedman, thank you for coming on hardtalk. hello there. we saw a brief window of fine weather for wednesday. many of us stay dry with some sunshine. but it's all change. the next area of low pressure moving in for thursday, bringing another spell of wet and windy weather to our shores. you can see here showing up on the pressure chart, moving up from the south—west, the isobars closer together across the board, but particularly across western areas. so it'll be a wet start from the word go across northern ireland, scotland, some snow on the hills, and then the rain will pile into many southern and western areas through the day, largely working their way eastward so we should stay dry in the east

until after dark. gale force winds for many, 40—50 mph gusts, in excess of 60 mph across the south—west, so very blustery. fairly mild in the south, still single figure values across the north. that low pressure moves northwards, taking the wet and windy weather with it during thursday night. into friday we've got fewer isobars on the charts, and a couple of weather fronts which will tend to enhance shower activity in band form. so we'll see a few showers clustered together across parts of scotland, northern ireland, some wintriness over the hills, a couple of showers as well into england and wales, which will tend to move from west to east. but some good spells of sunshine in between. you will notice the temperatures, though, with all the air mass changing, single figure values for most, just about ten degrees across the south—east. so into the weekend it will be colder but with high pressure establishing itself it should turn a bit drier, with good spells of sunshine, but at night it will be cold, we return to some overnight frost. you can see this area of high pressure clearly establishing itself across the uk during saturday and it's with us as well into sunday and into the start of next week too. mind you, we still have low pressure close to the north of the uk, so still windy across scotland. further heavy showers across here, maybe hail, some snow in the hills, maybe just one or two showers,

moving through the cheshire gap, for example, but they should tend to ease down into the afternoon, with increasing amounts of sunshine for many. but it will be a colder day, with temperatures in single figure values for most of us. and it's going to a cold night, saturday night, you can see the blue hue developing right across the board, a widespread frost with a risk of some fog or even freezing fog patches, perhaps a little bit of ice where we've had the showers through the day. so sunday starts off cold and frosty, but it looks like we should tend to lose those strong winds from the north of the country. for many of us here winds will be light. where fog holds on it will be cold, but for many of us we should see the sunshine, a very pleasant day in store. something a little bit milderjust getting into the north—west corner of the country, but for most of us we're in around the mid single digits.

this is the briefing. i'm sally bundock. our top story: articles of impeachment against president trump formally delivered to the us senate, with a trial set for next week. what next for russia as president putin unveils plans that could prolong his stay in power? at the start of a special season on the climate crisis, sir david attenborough tells the bbc more needs to be done to tackle global warming. we have been putting things off year after yea r. we have been putting things off year after year. we've been raising targets and saying, "0h, after year. we've been raising targets and saying, "oh, well, if we do it within the next 20 years °r_"u

do it within the next 20 years or..." the moment of crisis has come.