hello, it's thursday, it's ten o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire and we're live from new broadcasting house. sir david attenborough is warning that "the moment of crisis has come" and climate change needs to be tackled now. we have been putting things off year after year. we have been raising targets and saying, oh, well, if we do it within the next 20 years ,or if we do it... the moment of crisis has come. we can no longer prevaricate. we'll talk to the founder of the largest animal rights organisation in the world — peta — which has signed up loads of celebs to its anti—fur campaign and succeeded in getting major retailers to stop stocking angora products because the fur is plucked from live rabbits.

—— might use to be plucked. the head of mental health services in england is demanding urgent action to stop the "vicious gambling cycle" and tackle its impact on people's health. i want them to stop targeting loss—making customers, who i am told are called vips, which, if that's true, is cynical beyond belief. they target those loss—making customers by offering them hospitality, inviting them to events, sending them a free bet. and do you look at your phone while feeding your baby? this poster has been put up in a neo—natal unit in yeovil — urging new parents to look at their babies, not their phones. what do you think? welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning.

i want to thank you if you got in touch after yesterday's programme which was devoted to hernia mesh and the impact it is having on your lives. another 100 of you got in touch with your personal experiences touch with your personal experiences to talk about various issues you have with it including parents of young kids. this is from michaela, i have just watched your programme on mesh hernia repair and my son now 11 is born with a particular condition and requires a mesh to repair his hernia and since then he has had regular stomach pains and it regularly feels hard and swollen. we we re regularly feels hard and swollen. we were not offered an alternative. another said my son had hernia repair in 2015 when he was nine. we do not know if they implanted mesh but he feels sudden sharp pain for a few seconds when he runs or walks

briskly. and another. good morning, my name is jerry, briskly. and another. good morning, my name isjerry, i am a mother of four from staffordshire and my name isjerry, i am a mother of fourfrom staffordshire and i had a mesh hernia repair 11 years ago at 24. i was healthy before the operation but after the operation i had awful pain and discomfort and felt so weak i could not do exercise andi felt so weak i could not do exercise and i gained weight. i wish i never had the repair done. it has impacted my life every single day. i have been to the doctor to complain about it lots of times but i thought it was just it lots of times but i thought it wasjust me it lots of times but i thought it was just me but hearing other people's complications on your programme i will now enquire about getting it removed. many thanks to your programme. we will talk to a woman who got in touch a little later on in the programme who has had her own problems and did not know much about it until she saw the programme yesterday. first, rebecca has the news. "the moment of crisis has come" in the fight against climate change — that's the warning today

from the naturalist and broadcaster, sir david attenborough. in an exclusive interview to mark the start of the bbc‘s our planet matters series, sir david praised the efforts of young people and called on governments to do more. we have to realise this is not playing games. this is notjust having a nice little debates and arguments coming your way with a compromise. this is an urgent problem that has to be solved. what is more, we know how to do it. the number of people cautioned or convicted for carrying knives in england and wales has reached record levels. in the 12 months to the end of september last year, more than 14,130 offences of knife possession were dealt with by police and the courts. that's the highest number in a decade. the head of nhs mental health services in england has demanded urgent action from the gambling industry to reduce the number of people becoming addicted. claire murdoch is urging companies

to do more and described tactics to entice customers, such as offering promotions or free gifts, as shameful. the betting and gaming council said it takes its responsibility to customers ‘incredibly seriously. more reaction to this later in the programme — we'll be talking to a recovering gambler who says he's lost over a million pounds to his addiction. for the first time, tv cameras are to be allowed to film in crown courts in england and wales. it means that the judges‘ sentencing remarks in serious high profile cases can be seen on tv and online. however, trials will not be televised as they are in the us as only the judge will be filmed. the number of cases being looked into by an independent inquiry into maternity care at shrewsbury and telford hospital trust has risen to 900. the cases include the deaths and serious injuries of babies and women,

and those where families have concerns about the care they received. some date back 40 years. the scottish fa is set to become the first football governing body in europe to ban children from heading the ball during training, because of fears it can cause dementia in later life. a similar ban has been in place in the us since 2015. a second—hand bookshop in hampshire that tweeted about not making a single sale on tuesday has been inundated with orders, after going viral. petersfield bookshop tweeted a picture of the store, saying "tumbleweed. not a single book sold today. we think this may be the first time ever." the message hit home for thousands of book lovers, who retweeted it and overnight the store had more than 300 messages inquiring after books, as well as 95 orders.

that is the news. back to victoria. there has been a strong message to gambling firms from the head of mental health services who wrote to william hill, betfred, bet365, gvc and flutter. claire murdoch said incentives like free bets and tickets should be banned to stop the vicious gambling cycle. it was announced earlier this week that people are to be banned from using credit cards to place bets from april, but ms murdoch called for gambling companies to voluntarily enforce the ban immediately. she also criticised the "the links between the sporting industry and gambling" calling them "deeply disturbing". this industry, which, by the way, invests more than £1.4 billion a year in advertising alone, which helps it generate its £14 billion profits, invests, amongst other things, in aggressive advertising,

the use of social media. when you've got problem gamblers who are trying to stop gambling, it becomes really difficult for them to get away from it. so there are things like free bets. i'm calling upon the industry, for example, to stop taking bets by credit cards which allow people to build—up debt. i want them to stop targeting loss—making customers, who i'm told are called vips, which, if that's true, is cynical beyond belief. they target those loss—making customers by offering them hospitality, inviting them to events, sending them free bets. and of course, we saw last week, incredibly poor practise around having to bet to view. if you're a punter who wants to see your team play, you had to open an account or place a bet to watch your heroes play. all wrong, wrong and wrong again.

the last picture referred to as the seven uk betting companies who have rights to show games and offer to cancel the exclusivity of the deals. the deal between the fa and the firms is being investigated by the gambling commission. we can talk to james grimes, a former gambling addict. and a professor from the university of liverpool and liz carter, who specialises in treating women. james, can you hear me 0k? no, he obviously can't. we will come back to james. professor david forrest. i wa nt to james. professor david forrest. i want your reaction to what claire murdoch said this morning. good morning, you said it was strongly put and it certainly was. i do not think everything said was accurate,

for example, we heard gambling companies have a profit of £14 billion a year. the 14 billion, which includes a substantial amount from the national lottery, of course, refers to the amount the customers spend and out of that the gambling companies have to pay for rent and labour supply and everything else companies have to do. i do not think many viewers will feel sorry for them yet. do you accept that gambling companies do not do enough to prevent their customers from harm? they have... there have been very serious cases of failings in the gambling industry. to meet their obligations, which are conditions of their licence, to identify and attempt to ameliorate the problems of

vulnerable customers. i think they have made great progress in identifying problem gamblers. 0ne blessing of the channel shift towards online rather than retail, which of course is coming across all industries, is that because gamblers have to have accounts now, their play can be tracked. you can set up algorithms that will detect the sorts of patterns of play that are suggestive of gambling problems. and then you can attempt to intervene. liz carter, you specialise in treating women gambling addicts. do you agree with the professor that firms are making progress?” you agree with the professor that firms are making progress? i think this is a complex problem. i specialised in working with women with a gambling addiction over 20 years and yes of course we need to

continue to have rational conversations about products and advertising, but what we really need to understand, to give realistic hope of recovery for women, is there are some very deep and wide underlying issues and i would like to make three points. before you do, i want to address the story today which is claire murdoch saying gambling companies for example need to stop offering free bets on tickets and need to stop targeting customers who become vip customers. she says that is shameful. do you agree? you need to look at everything, case by case. agree? you need to look at everything, case by caselj agree? you need to look at everything, case by case. i am asking you about the gambling companies. do they need to do more? i think many companies are beginning to look at social. my goodness. i am interested you a re to look at social. my goodness. i am interested you are both defending them. do you not think they need to

do more? maybe you don't. i think, victoria, we all need to do more. do the gambling companies need to do more? do you agree with the head of mental health services in england?” believe we all need to do more. i believe we all need to do more. i believe gambling companies need to do more. we all need to do more. as a society, if we want to treat the problem, because there are deep rooted underlying issues. i agree that this is a mental—health problem and this is the first point that i wanted to make, that in order to address gambling addiction, we need to address what the gambling industry can do but we need to address underlying issues. 0k, industry can do but we need to address underlying issues. ok, that is fair enough. have you worked with some of the gambling companies ever? yes i have worked with gambling companies and each and every day i treat clients who have the problem. what is the work you have done with

gambling companies? this is news to me. to be transparent with the audience, what work have you done with gambling companies?” audience, what work have you done with gambling companies? i do work with gambling companies? i do work with a select few gambling companies in helping them to understand how to identify customers who have problems and how to have meaningful conversations with them, enabling them... you are not totally objective? i am completely objective. are you paid by them? yes. you cannot possibly be totally objective, it is not possible.” would disagree with you, victoria, because i can be completely objective. i am completely independent. you cannot be if you are paid by them. with respect, i was invited onto this programme to talk about the psychology of the addiction and to be helpful to my clients. i work with the gambling industry to be helpful to those people who have the problem, because

if we do not understand what the problem is about, how are we ever going to help the people that develop a problem? i am going to help the people that develop a problem? lam proud going to help the people that develop a problem? i am proud with the work —— man of the work i do helping gambling industry companies, the select few i choose to work with, because i am an independent treatment provider, i am not a big company. i do not need to bring in vast amounts of income to finance myself. i am vast amounts of income to finance myself. lam proud vast amounts of income to finance myself. i am proud of the fact i helped to have meaningful conversations and help to communicate what the problem is about to be truly helpful to those who developed the problem and, each and every day, i treat men and women and every day, i treat men and women and have done the last 20 years, who have the problem, and the problem often lies in an attempt to treat mental—health often lies in an attempt to treat mental— health problems like often lies in an attempt to treat mental—health problems like stress and depression and anxiety by focusing on gambling. it is also a social issue. i work with many women

0k. who every day tell me they are gambling to mentally and emotionally escape lives they feel completely overwhelmed by. if they can hide behind a screen, hide the problem and escape. i am going to stop you there because i want to bring in james. you are right you were brought in to talk about the psychology. we went down the route i was not expecting our conversation to go down but that is the way conversations go, as you know. i wa nt to conversations go, as you know. i want to bring injames grimes, a former gambling addict and i think you have lost something like £100,000 on gambling. do you agree with claire murdoch that the gambling companies need to bring in a urgent action to prevent customers from harm? yes, 100%. no a urgent action to prevent customers from harm? yes, 10096. no surprise i agree with it. the promotion, practices and products of the industry over the past few years

have caused a public health crisis. it isa have caused a public health crisis. it is a desperate situation when the nhs are having to plead to the industry to relent their greed to protect people. we know gambling addiction can lead to suicide. there are hundreds of people every year in this country who take their life as a direct result of gambling addiction. it is now time for the industry to make meaningful changes. both things can be true at the same time. you can have sustainable gambling organisations with the prevention of turning people into gambling addicts. do you think free bets, tickets to sporting events, making some gamblers so vip gamblers, and banning gambling on credit cards, should be brought in today? which claire murdoch said gambling firms could do today. yes. evenif gambling firms could do today. yes. even if you brought it into today

you still have people, the legacy of those promotions and practices have been affected by but it needs to urgently. i was groomed through vip schemes and free tickets to football matches which normalised to the relationship between football and gambling. that is the problem, it has been glamorised and normalised for too long. let me go back to professor david forest. i want to read the statement from the betting and gaming council on behalf of the companies, we take our responsibility seriously and are determined to raise standards and improve safer gambling. some of the work members have done includes new age verification checks, increase funding for research, education treatment, a whistle to whistle ban on gambling advertising. and worked to create monitoring algorithms to monitor play online and retail to

help identify those at risk of harmful play and last week waved exclusivity on those fa cup games. we are working on affordability checks and detector block adverts and calling on search engines to block ads from non—uk licensed operators to use search terms. they are doing some things. could they do more? you can always do more. in order to do things more effectively, we probably need more knowledge, which we are picking up, the operators are cooperating for example ina operators are cooperating for example in a very major project in which academics will look at the patterns of play. given the account details of customers and that will build a picture of how people play online which will help us to tailor better interventions. 0f

online which will help us to tailor better interventions. of course, there has been talk of crisis. that is forgiveable to the extent that gambling disorder is a very serious illness. the wellbeing questions put in health surveys to problem gamblers get as desperate a set of a nswe rs gamblers get as desperate a set of answers as cancer patients for example, so we are dealing with a serious illness but it's not an epidemic, because both participation in gambling and the prevalence of problem gambling have been falling in britain. 0k, thank you all of you. and thanks for your messages. victoria said gambling problems cannot be blamed on anyone but the individual who gambles. as a gambler ican individual who gambles. as a gambler i can categorically say this. grant says i have been self excluded from gambling sites for years and still receive e—mails inviting me to place

free bets. i wonder if i were an alcoholic i would receive offers of free drinks and breweries. the industry needs to do more to clean up industry needs to do more to clean up practices. chris said the majority of named bookies are criminals. they have been allowed to manipulate and control the market to their benefit without opposition. the biggest hypocrisy is when they openly close accounts of anyone who wins more than they lose. i have numerous examples having worked for a betting company over ten years. thank you for those. the e—mail address and twitter, you can contact us, and you can text. coming up later in the programme... she famously persuaded celebrities to go naked to stop people wearing fur. we'll talk to the founder of the animal rights orgnaisation peta, which is 40 years old this year. and scottish football's governing

bodyis and scottish football's governing body is planning to stop young children from heading the ball. do you look at your phone while your feeding your baby? if your baby was premature and in special care, would you? this poster was put up in the neo—natal unit at yeovil district hospital in somerset. and some mums and dads have criticised it. this dad tweeted a picture, saying... "i'm in the special care baby unit with my five—day—old "and this poster makes me sad." other parents have given their backing, saying they're just trying to get support — or even stay awake — during what can be an incredibly lonely time. the hospital says it has been blown out of proportion on social media. let's talk to mum of two julie thompson dredge — who's with rufus, who is one. and josie anderson from the bliss charity for babies born premature. i only have to macro names but i expect three guests. hello. jc. and what is your name? julie. and this

is rufus. hello, rufus. do you want to come over to me? i do not know thatis to come over to me? i do not know that is a good idea! what you think of the poster. bliss thinks the intent behind it is sound. it is good for parents to engage in baby's ca re good for parents to engage in baby's care and learn queues so they know when they want feeding and holding but like you have said it can be gruelling in a neonatal unit. breast—feeding and expressing is ha rd breast—feeding and expressing is hard but when you are trying to feed a baby who might not be able to take much milk it can be tough and sometimes parents need to check their phone for support or to check in with people. what you think the poster? i found the poster to be a bitjudgmental. poster? i found the poster to be a bit judgmental. i thought the poster? i found the poster to be a bitjudgmental. i thought the lots of kisses and please look at me in capital letters was a little bit

like it was coming from an angry place, possibly, or a judgmental place. it did not look to me like it was a friendly message. rufus, what cani was a friendly message. rufus, what can i do to help you, darling? would you like this? what about eye contact with all babies, notjust premature babies, when you are breast—feeding or feeding with a bottle, looking at your child?” think the evidence is strong that having that engagement with your babyis having that engagement with your baby is really important. parents learned so much by looking and touching their baby. for parents in a neonatal unit, it is often the first thing they can do, and but it is important for parents to take time. the neonatal unit is

stressful. i suppose it is doing it while you are feeling. taking time for yourself, of course, particularly having gone through the stress of a premature baby but the point of the poster is while you are doing yourfeeding. point of the poster is while you are doing your feeding. sometimes pa rents doing your feeding. sometimes parents feel they are on a schedule to feed their baby. their baby might be relaxed and they might need that moment to look up advice as to whether they are doing it right, or wanting to check in with people. pa rents a re wanting to check in with people. parents are on the unit for hours at a time. of course, most of their time is dedicated to their baby, but they need to take time for themselves and check—in, as well. how is it going with you and feeding? i am not feeding any more but i fed rufus until he was six months. i was saying to josie but i fed rufus until he was six months. i was saying tojosie before i have my own business so i was working through my maternity leave and breast—feeding, while looking up my phone, but i was able to give them attention at the same time and

look at them. i think we are able to juggle look at them. i think we are able to juggle both. i do not think the phoneis juggle both. i do not think the phone is an evil. are we doing damage to babies if we do not give them eye contact and full attention? some people pointed out you cannot always see your baby's eyes when breast—feeding. often you see the top of their head. i would say most new mothers are quite obsessed with their babies and i think you would naturally want to look at them and keep having eye contact as well as potentially getting well wishes from family or using the phone to google symptoms, whatever it might be. i think you can do them both together. he has worked out how to use the ipad! we can bring in kerry who was breast—feeding up to a month ago. hello. and who is with you? harry. welcome. a delight to have your national television. what do you

think of the poster put up in the neonatal unit? i thought it was judgmental. you spend so much time breast—feeding, you cannot just judgmental. you spend so much time breast—feeding, you cannotjust be looking at your baby the whole time. for me, in the middle of the night, when you are tired, you need something to help you keep awake. breast—feeding is a great bonding experience but if you are doing it hours and hours, it cannotjust be looking at your baby and half the time their eyes are closed, anyway. they are not looking at you the whole time. you do not need to necessarily stare at them the whole time. the hospital said it has been blown out of proportion. do you think it would have been coming from a good place that they put the poster up? for somebody to have made a poster, ithink poster up? for somebody to have made a poster, i think it must have bothered them and upset them to do that. the hospital said the posters

we re that. the hospital said the posters were put up by members of the special care baby unit team, the same team who dedicate days and nights to caring for some of the sickest children seen in the hospital and suggesting the staff set out to patronise or demonise pa rents set out to patronise or demonise parents is devastating for them and undermines their inexhaustible compassion and hard work. rufus, you area compassion and hard work. rufus, you are a legend. thank you so much for coming on the programme. you can't be a meat—eating environmentalist — that's the view of ingrid newkirk, the founder of peta the largest animal rights organisation in the world. about to celebrate its 40th anniversary, peta — which stands for people for the ethical treatment of animals — was founded in 1980. you can absolutely go, you do not have to sit there for tv convention purposes. goodbye, rufus.

when ingrid decided to give up being a trainee stockbroker and dedicate her life to animal rights. the principle was "animals are not ours to eat, wear, experiment on, or use for entertainment". peta have famously used celebrities posing naked to try to stop people wearing fur and they've used headline—grabbing protests to make huge industry changes — like the end of baboons being used as car—crash test dummies. now ingrid say it's not a case of "will the future be vegan, but there will be a future because we are vegan". she's just released a new book and is with us for her first tv interview. we will show images shown in this interview, i am sorry, i will try that again. we will show images in this interview that are disturbing. lets walk all the way over to

ingrid, thanks for your patience. i have your book in my bag,... and i have your book in my bag,... and i have theirs, i promise not to cry. you handled that baby beautifully! at we love having children and animals on our programme. let's start with this claim that you can't bea start with this claim that you can't be a meat—eating environmentalist, why not? or even a dairy eating environmentalist, believe it or not. we have nitrous oxide, we have all these things methane being spewed into the atmosphere and according to the united nations, you could take all the emissions from cars, boats, planes, put them together and they don't equal the devastating effect of meat and dairy production. there are issues with the vegan diet, as you know. avocado farming is causing deforestation. almond milk used instead of dairy. honeybees are used

on these mega, mega farms in california, packed into boxes, loaded onto trucks, transported to california and plenty of them die. what you say to that?” california and plenty of them die. what you say to that? i say vegans don't eat honey for a start. it is for the almond milk, it is not a bad honey. the dairy farmers of california started that story because they are the biggest users of water in that state, it is a big dairy producing state. so when i read that 50 million bees died last winter, you say that is made up. no, i don't at all, that may be. i am saying the negative press on almond milk is directly traceable to dairy farming's use of water, and water resources a re farming's use of water, and water resources are of course going to be even more critical as time goes on, we all know that and also deforestation, i mean talk about the pot calling the kettle black. the amazon rainforest is being cleared at who knows how many cricket

pitches a second so they can grow crops, mostly soybeans, to feed cattle. but also do you accept that deforestation is happening because of avocado growing? certainly, you can see in mexico, the mafia has taken over avocado can see in mexico, the mafia has ta ken over avocado growing. can see in mexico, the mafia has taken over avocado growing. i wouldn't necessarily recommend avocado but of because vegans don't have to exist on only avocados.” ask this seriously, not flippantly. does the fact that greggs have a vegan role, does that help in your mission? yes, i think whenever a fast—food outlet makes a vegan product available to people, even if it isn't the healthiest thing on the planet, it certainly helps animals and our goal of courses to stop suffering, so that does reduce the of animals. will the uk one day be vegan? i don't know but if it's not there, i think it will get very close because you can't move down the high street now without seeing signs that say vegan this and that.

i'm having a blastjust eating my way through london, it is phenomenal. you have vegan ham and cheese at the coffee shops, you have an egg and christmas damage without 999 an egg and christmas damage without egg and! an egg and christmas damage without egg and i think it is at marks and spencers —— egg and cress. you don't have to be fancy, you don't have to spend a lot of money and you can look around you and there it all is. how many decades before the world becomes vegan? i don't know, i am 70 soi becomes vegan? i don't know, i am 70 so i hope i am there to see it but i doubt it, we probably can't get world peace either, but i think we can become more aware and become more conscientious in our buying habits. and not just more conscientious in our buying habits. and notjust what we eat because all of the animals that are used for clothing are eventually eaten. i mean, it is sheep for wall, cows for leather, even ostriches now, they have those little exotic ostrich medallions they serve in some cafe is. it is everything. you

found it migratory 40 years ago and all that time, you have been trying to protect animals from harm, maltreatment. i wanted to look at some of the things you have managed to achieve. we have some images and some are really disturbing. i think it is important we show them because there is no point hiding from the staff that has happened. when it comes to angora wool, we've got this image of live rabbits being plucked, which i think we can show. rabbit screeches. imean, in i mean, in terms of getting that stopped, how do you feel about that? well, we went to china and i must

say, i take my hat off to zara, an ethical company and it still is, and it ticked all of the mohair from those animals being plucked from its shelves. other companies have. it is difficult to find mohair but... is that practice still going on or is it that you have managed to persuade some companies from using that wall? we have persuaded hundreds of companies but mostly in europe and north america. in china and asia, you can still find mohair but i would ask people to look at the undercover investigations we have done into kashmir. that was angora but into cashmere and mohair. in the book i try to make people not really upset. i tell them the facts but in a gentle way and with stories about animals and then facilitate what you can do to change. one of your biggest achievements has been the worldwide abolition of car

manufacturers using pigs and baboons in crash experiments. again, we will show some footage. how did you manage to persuade them to stop doing that? very grateful to the whistle—blower who told us it was going on, no one knew and, of course, back then, you didn't have a car crash dummies. just say the audience can work out what is going on. those were pigs in the front of the cars and that they were obviously being slammed into walls and the pigs, obviously, the trotters at the top were tied up, very distressed, you can see really distressing. yes, we try to meet for a long time with the car companies, vauxhall, gm and so on, all of the world and they pretty much slammed the door on ourface. world and they pretty much slammed the door on our face. that doesn't happen so much nowadays, they are afraid of us and now we get results but they wouldn't meet and we had to escalate that campaign, it was really pathetic. we had to start getting our members to donate cars

to us and, in the end, we were actually setting fire to donated ca rs actually setting fire to donated cars outside car showrooms. that finally got their attention and now if you see a car crash test dummy on the news or somewhere, it is because we can help them to change. then aflac, billie eilish, the rise of skywalker, pamela anderson —— ben affleck. the rise of skywalker. the power of celebrity, sometimes people don't like being preached to, but to get them to pose naked, to get them to not wear real fur, get them to pose naked, to get them to not wear realfur, it get them to pose naked, to get them to not wear real fur, it has been successful. they have tonnes of fans, so if they tweet a picture of themselves, gillian anderson with themselves, gillian anderson with the advert i would rather go naked than wearfur, the advert i would rather go naked than wear fur, it the advert i would rather go naked than wearfur, it is the advert i would rather go naked than wear fur, it is stunning and people have to have a look. pamela anderson has a heart that is enormous, in that big chest, she has

an enormous heart! she wrote to kim kardashian and said why are you still wearing fur? so kim kardashian, like the queen, had all of herfurs redone in faux. kardashian, like the queen, had all of her furs redone in faux. did you have anything to do with the queen wearing faux? i understand that she was quoted as saying migratory did but i didn't know and once we had made a change from the bearskin caps, each of those caps is made from one pair shot in canada, one mother bear. and who have you written to about that, the queen, justin trudeau? you could write to harry and meghan. she has done a fantastic job appearing on harry and meghan. she has done a fantasticjob appearing on apple and pineapple leather. we just sent cater bag for her birthday. some of the younger royals have done great vegan things. isn't it hypocritical

for celebs to talk about protecting the environment, protecting animals, protecting the climate when they work in the film industry. kim kardashian, you will hear this all the time, kim kardashian flies first class across the world. prince harry was criticised for speaking at a climate change conference and taking private jets on holiday to the south of france. what do you say about that? they are not buddha, they are in the film industry. joaquin phoenixjust won a in the film industry. joaquin phoenix just won a golden globes and made sure the whole menu was vegan, there was no option and everyone enjoyed it and they are learning to do things the way society is learning to do it, they are just do things the way society is learning to do it, they arejust in a higher strata of spending, perhaps and people are, in the film industry, trying to cut down on their use of private jets. are they really? seriously? they aren't! when was the last time anyone saw kim kardashian on a normal commercial

flight? | kardashian on a normal commercial flight? i can't speak for kim kardashian. i know, ijust wonder if it is naive to think they are genuinely cutting down on private flights. i see more vegan everything andi flights. i see more vegan everything and i see more people concerned about the environment. leonardo dicaprio is a great voice in hollywood and he is doing enormous work to try and get people to reduce their carbon footprint. you know, they are not wholly, they are not pure, but i think they realise, if nothing else, they realised that it is politically correct that they must cut that stuff down. so, in the book, what do you try to do?” must cut that stuff down. so, in the book, what do you try to do? i try to wa ke book, what do you try to do? i try to wake people up to what animals are, they are not tables and chairs. you believe that we shouldn't have pets? i believe we should rescue them, not breed them, we should go to the refugees and adopt may be not one, maybe too, so they can keep each other company. so it is all right to have pets? they are

refugees from a society that cast them out, it is marvellous if you can give them the good home and have patience and respect them and i have lots of dog stories in animalkind because people love dogs and i learned a lot about them when i was writing the book. but i want people to know that animals have feelings. they feel pain, fear and loneliness. they feel pain, fear and loneliness. they feel pain, fear and loneliness. they feel joy, they feel pain, fear and loneliness. they feeljoy, they they feel pain, fear and loneliness. they feel joy, they love companionship, they are good mothers. they really do better than we do in mating for life, most of them. and i want to help people, do their homework for them and show them a easy pc ways that they can live a more kind existence. well, let's give our audience are some tips. you are not doing this in a preachy way, it is just the things you have learned. normal people, non—celebs, what can we do if we wa nt to non—celebs, what can we do if we want to protect animals more? well, eve ryo ne want to protect animals more? well, everyone eats, as you mention, the vegan food movement is really moving rapidly and we have tips, recipes, we have all sorts of things that

will make it an easy transition to a vegan diet and if you make it meatless monday or go vegan for the month or take your recipes more vegan, grand. what you wear is another thing because, of course, we have shown that the clothing industry, what it takes from animals is incredibly cruel but we have fabulous new fibres now, fabrics that don't come from animals, natural things you can wear. i point them all out in the books, including them all out in the books, including the apple, the pineapple leather you can get. how much is that? if i bought a great leather bag?l crocodile bag is £30,000! that is outrageous and obscene. we did an investigation into that, really obscene but they are now comparatively priced. like what? i don't know, i am a hand—me—down shopper. you sent on to kate middleton, she might wear high street store. that was given to us

to give to her, that cost nothing. i am not sure, it is really beautiful but it is not the sort of thing i would be carrying. that is from elux. it does not sound cheap. no, they are a luxury brand, why they are luxury, i don't know because no one wants the smell of leather any more. you know what, people do! you have done an incredible job over 40 yea rs have done an incredible job over 40 years but there is much to do, would you agree? a lot to do but there is a new study out that shows the chemical smell from new leather is really bad for you. i don't know if thatis really bad for you. i don't know if that is peer reviewed yet. i want to ask you about your methods ‘s methods, because you are famous for disruption, whether it is storming the catwalk in a fashion week to protest against her, setting ca rs week to protest against her, setting cars on fire, as you said, being

forced fed outside fortnum & mason. you don't engage in violence officially. where is the line for you? we don't engage in violence at all. we can sometimes hurt ourselves inadvertently when we are doing stu nts. inadvertently when we are doing stunts. their line is that it must be peaceful, it must be factual and, sometimes, people do need to be figuratively hit over the head with the facts. they need to see, they need a demonstration of what you're talking about and, of course, we have to fight for coverage of these issues because there is so much going on in politics and confrontation and these other things. and do you support groups who write "murderer", graffiti over farm shop windows meat farmers?” don't think we are asked to support them. do you support that kind of action? i support anything that doesn't hurt anyone and i'm not sure if it does any good but it probably does, if somebody sees it and i certainly wouldn't criticise them when, inside those places, living

beings with this much feeling as me are being strung up by one leg and having their throats slit. so i think the answer is, if you compare the two, i would support spray—painting over slaughter. the two, i would support spray-painting over slaughter. that is fair enough but i suppose one is illegal, spray—painting, damaging somebody‘s property is illegal, where slaughtering the animal behind the doors is not, at this point. you are right, obviously but i do hope at some point animals won't be seen as property. no records are actually taking that view, bit bit. —— now that the courts. we just had a court in brazil saying an elephant that was rescued was not a commodity, she was rescued was not a commodity, she was a refugee and i thought it was a wonderful breakthrough. so the personhood of animals, the fact that they are like us, we are one animal among many, will one day be recognised and may be those people are ahead of the curve. candy treats this, thank you for highlighting such vicious animal atrocities. humans are the most destructive,

evil beings. mike says it is well publicised, year after year, that in peta's dog shelters in the states, they have very high euthanasia statistics. yes, we do. we have one shelter, it is called the shelter of last resort, it is for mostly poor people, people unemployed, can't afford to go to the veterinarian for those final moments when an animal who perhaps is wrecked delete wracked with cancer or injured, hit bya car, wracked with cancer or injured, hit by a car, and you can't rescue them any more, they can come to us free of charge, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, we will put them down free of charge, they can be with their animal in the final moments. all of the cases are on our website. there isa the cases are on our website. there is a wonderful video that shows exactly this and i think people that hate us love to bring that up and it is just hate us love to bring that up and it isjust rubbish. the same guy mike just wants to check, is it ok for people to have domestic pets such as

cats and dogs because he says you have repeatedly stated that it isn't? i have actually written two books, one about having a dog and one about having a cat and our philosophy has always been try and adopt two if you can so they can keep each other company, always go to the refuge, never the breeder or the pet shop. so we are against a breeding domestic animals for your amusement. a couple more. john says the planet cannot supply enough vegetable products to support the population and also growing crops adds to greenhouse gas emissions. if you want to be a vegan, fine, but do not force your way is on me. i'm not sure that has been anything you have said that has been very forceful, you have just stated your case. so what is still to do? all sorts, we are getting animals out of the laboratory, finally. that is interesting because pharmaceutical say, look, for our drugs to be absolutely say, look, for our drugs to be

a bsolutely safe say, look, for our drugs to be absolutely safe when it comes to human beings using them, we do need to test them on animals. they are getting away from saying that, actually. there are alternatives? there are no alternatives so there is no excuse, we have high—speed computers, you programmed them with human data, we have organs on a chip, brain slices in petri dishes, the whole human dna in the data base and pfizer and others have agreed they should not be the forced swim for animals to get medicine for depression, it is not needed. they either react has not yet come into force but it will criminalise trade in all ivory artefacts with a few exemptions. the manifesto for the conservatives ahead of the general election was the first of theirs which didn't hold out the prospect of the revival of fox hunting since hunting with dogs was bad. boris

johnson's girlfriend kerry simmons isa johnson's girlfriend kerry simmons is a famous animal lover, ego supporter. could the conservative government in this country be good for animal rights? -- e co supporter. they certainly could and, after brexit, i'm certainly hoping we can get the conservatives and parliament to put through a bill to ban the import of foie gras and the import of affair, because you cannot farm it in the uk so why should you be able to farm it elsewhere and drag it here and sell it? ingrid, thank you so much for coming on, really appreciate your time, the book is animalkind. if your young son or daughter plays football and you live in scotland, then they could soon be banned from heading the ball. bbc scotland has learned the scottish fa is planning to bring in the ban for under—12s because of fears over the links between football and dementia. a similar ban has been in place in the us since 2015. but the sfa would become the first european country to do it. the issue of dementia being caused by heading footballs hit

the headlines with the death in 2002 of the former england playerjeff astle. at his inquest, it was stated that the cause of the illness that led to his death was the continual minor shocks to the head he suffered from heading a football. his family have since been at the forefront of the campaign to get the link between heading and dementia recognised. joining me now is dr willie stewart, who was the lead invetigator in a ground—breaking study into head injuries in football. and from ayrshire, james adams, head of sport and social science at ayrshire college. good morning. first of all, willie, tell us about the links and what difference this will make two young football players. so the link is, we looked at former professional footballers born right up to 1976 and looked at the death certification and found that our footballers were dying of

neurodegenerative disease like dementia three times higher than expected. and the question then is why is that? there has been a lot of research over the years that has looked at the link between head injury and dementia, particularly we know with boxing that we have heard recently about rugby and football. so there was the likely risk factor we see as the exposure of head injury and head impact and we see as the exposure of head injury and head impactand it we see as the exposure of head injury and head impact and it is important that in all sports, not just football, to think about ways of reducing unnecessary head impact. a lot of people are asking how does banning it until the age of 12 help? the research in the us has shown, for instance, that the risk is greatest at the younger you start and the longer you play. so i guess when you are looking at it, we've gotta start somewhere, and in that age group, to be honest, head injuries, sorry, heading is such a rare event, it is very rare in matches and yet we train for it an

awful lot, the kids train a lot during the week in the rare event that may be one of them will head the ball so i think it is reasonable to say at that age, let's look at reducing it altogether. james, to under 12s train a lot before heading? i know my boys didn't particularly. no, and willie is right with what he says but the under125, it is right with what he says but the under 125, it is football. brian clough famously 5aid under 125, it is football. brian clough famously said if football was to be played in the air, god would have given us wing5. so it is about producing talent with your feet, left foot and right foot, but it is an integral part of the game so it i5 an integral part of the game so it is right and proper if there is any possibility of harm and danger, that you don't do that. looking at 5imilar 5port5, you don't do that. looking at 5imilar sports, like rugby, what they do is up to a certain age, it i5ju5t touch they do is up to a certain age, it is just touch rugby and then you bring in the tackling and it is more defined. so the physical element, the contact element when the body and brain is developing, if you can mitigate the risks as much as

possible, it makes good common sense to do so. so, generally speaking, most coaches would focus on practice with the feet, but taking the heading element out of the game, it just means you are developing the skills as well as keeping them safe. and you really think it will keep them safe, if, from the age of 12 onwards, they can head the ball. they perhaps went headed properly if they haven't had the training? again, there is no evidence that thatis again, there is no evidence that that is the case, no one is saying we don't head the ball as well as europeans. we are talking in a structured environment, children playing in the street, children playing in the street, children playing in the street, children playing in their friends in unregulated games, they will still do that but itjust unregulated games, they will still do that but it just won't unregulated games, they will still do that but itjust won't be promoted and encouraged under 125 andl promoted and encouraged under 125 and i think that makes sense. the report that willie spoke about did

mentioned it was 1900—1976. it was a different football back then, so it is now a lighter ball, but it will have a knock—on effect but i don't think it will impact the quality significantly. thank you both very much. another 100 of our viewers contacted us yesterday, during and after we dedicated our whole programme to hernia mesh and the problems it has caused some people. we reported that too many types of hernia mesh implants are being used on nhs patients with little or no clinical evidence. our exclusive data shows more than 100 different types of mesh were purchased by nhs trusts from 2012 to 2018 in england and scotland. some will have undergone no clinical testing — and may only have been tested on small animals, such as rabbits — for a few days. christine pratt says... "i had a mesh fitted over ten years

ago and it has disintegrated and become entangled. "surgery was delayed many times until i reached "the point where my case had become life—threatening. "the pain is incredible and debilitating." colleen nicholas says "i had a hernia mesh implant in 2009 due to a surgical error while having a different operation. the pain i endured was horrendous. to walk, i used sticks and my upper body was stooped over." graham kerr says, "i had a left—sided hernia repair in 2012 or 2013. from the moment i woke up i knew something wasn't right. i was left with a bulge that was bigger than the original hernia, but it was as hard as bone." sam winstanley says... "i've had 22 hernia repairs. they had to remove my mesh every time because it got infected." we also had an email from kali mountford, who was labour mp for colne valley from 1997 to 2010. she says she had a hernia mesh

repair and ended up having to retire from politics because the pain became "unbearable and fatiguing". she blames mesh. i have got lots of other messages from you about various different subjects we have done today. on the poster in the neonatal unit in yeovil that suggested parents feeding their babies should look at their baby, not at their phone, andy says totally agree with looking at the baby when feeding and not the phone, helping with the bonding process. it is now getting a silly society with headstone looking up the phone and everyone suffering more and more, being ignored and feeling left out. diane says please connect with your baby and not your phone, not only when feeding but pushing the buggy or the pram. i see so many young mums pushing the buggy with one hand and using the mobile with one hand and using the mobile with the other. jackie says when i breast—fed my daughter, it was the only time in my life i knew 100% i was in the right place at the right

time and we watched each other the whole time. she never knew what it was to go awake into a court because she fell asleep on my breast. last feed was one week before her first birthday and 37 years later, we have a bonded relationship, she has continued that bond with her own son. and peter, 40 years old this year —— migratory. this will strongly disagreeing that meat farming being the only source. i have only felt strongly enough to contact this programme. well done for showing how angora is harvested because i had no idea. and william says i'm full of respect for ingrid, the founder of peta and i am a meat eater. i despise trophy hunting and

animal cruelty. we are no angels here, name and shame celebs who abuse animals under pro—hunting. please indulge me for the last 20 seconds while i say a massive thank you to one of our top producers and film—makers, louis lee ray, who has been on the programme since we launched nearly five years ago. he has a newjob and we are really happy for him, even though he is leaving the bbc. he is a star, a lovely human being and a joy to be around. lily, we love you. bbc newsroom live is coming up next. have a good day. whether this area of low pressure moving on from the west, the isobars

getting closer again, which means it is going to turn windier as the day goes on. gales around the irish sea coast but in particular around wales in the south—west of england, gusts of 65, may be 70 mph and that rain spreads its way eastwards, heavy in places. not quite reaching the far east of england until late into the evening, a maximum temperature 8—13. a south—westerly wind, which is why it will feel fairly mild. as we go through tonight, the area of low pressure will move to the north and there will be this are occluded front following behind. that means on friday, there will be showers moving away from west to east across england and. some sunshine either side of that, showers not lasting all that long but it will turn chilly, temperatures down to 6—10.

it's11am and these are the main stories this morning. "the moment of crisis has come" — david attenborough tells the bbc efforts to tackle climate change need to happen now as global temperatures are the second highest on record. this is an urgent problem that has to be solved. and what is more, we know how to do it. that's the paradoxical thing, that we're refusing to take steps that we know have to be taken. prince harry will make his first public appearance since he and his wife meghan announced they'll be stepping back from their roles as senior royals. figures show the number of knife crimes in england and wales are the highest they've been in a decade.

the nhs demands gambling companies take urgent action