doctors in china confirm a new respiratory virus that's spreading across the country, can be passed from person to person. officials say more than 200 people have been infected — four people have died. the world health organization has called an emergency meeting later this week. the leader of the republican majority in the us senate, mitch mcconnell, has laid out plans for president trump's impeachment trial. under the proposals there's no guarantee that witnesses or new evidence would be allowed, and arguments for both sides would have to be presented injust21i hours. democratic party leaders say it would be a cover—up. the authorities in mexico have prevented hundreds of people from central america from entering the country on their way to the united states. after some skirmishes, security forces rounded up those who managed to cross the river marking the border between mexico and guatemala.

it is 4:30am in the morning and if you're keeping track, you up—to—date on the headline. now it's time for hardtalk. this is the briefing — i'm ben bland. well, too hardtalk, i'm stephen our top story: a respiratory virus in china claims a fourth life, sackur, uk prime minister boris as doctors there confirm it can be johnson has promised to take steps transmitted from person to person. controversy over the rules for president trump's impeachment to protect military personnel from trial — democrats say the proposals what he describes as vexatious legal amount to a cover—up. hundreds of people from claims. that's a controversial south america trying to get to the us are rounded up by the authorities in mexico. sta nce claims. that's a controversial stance as armed conflicts from and coming up in buiness briefing: combating climate change is set to take centre stage northern ireland to iraq have thrown at davos, but will leaders take up northern ireland to iraq have thrown up serious allegations of criminal wrongdoing by soldiers. my guest today alexander blackman was convicted of murder while serving in afghanistan in 2011. after a long legal struggle, his conviction was reduced to manslaughter. what does his case tell us about the reality and accountability on the battlefield 7

alexander blackman, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. it is pretty much now three years since you were released from prison. have you moved on 01’ released from prison. have you moved on or do you still ponder what happens to you every day of your life? i think i've moved on quite well. i don't like to dwell too much on the past. it is quite a significant event in my life but... most people would assume life changing. arguably stop trying to move on with the rest of my life and in many respects, to put those

experiences behind me. when talking about an incident and we will go into it in some detail that occurred in 2011. i'm very mindful thatjust a couple of months ago, what of your collea g u es a couple of months ago, what of your colleagues in the military operation you were involved in in temper 2011, sam and dean, who at the time of all of the investigations was known as marine e, he spoke of hitting rock bottom a year or so ago and finding it very difficult to deal with his emotions. you've not had that all have you? i have struggled when i was initially convinced that. it was a very tough. in terms of mental health and well—being. while i was in prison. in certain stages through the campaign, you know, there was highs and lows. obviously, we got a result, not everything we were hoping for but it meant my release quite quickly after the appeal was

successful. i think that has helped me more than anything else. you are of course, it should be said, a vetera n, of course, it should be said, a veteran, a military man of a great deal of experience so that it go backin deal of experience so that it go back in time. tell the story chronologically. when you got to afghanistan, serving in the royal marines in 2011, you are familiar with frontlines and battlefields and had served in northern ireland and in iraq. i taken part in the invasion of iraq in 2003 and had served in afghanistan before. while every tour is different, it is hard to explain the nuances of how they change... you go for retraining every time you go because things change and not two although you may have gone there a year before, the situation on the ground, the way the enemy is fighting, the tactics they use change so much that you need to be refreshed. if we are talking

about afghanistan and helmand province where you and your company we re province where you and your company were operating in september 2011, was it a more intense, a more difficult warfighting was it a more intense, a more difficult war fighting environments than anything you had known before? difference would be the word i would use. difference would be the word i would use. in iraq and my first tour in afghanistan was more of a stand—up fight. we'll go out on patrol, the company was sent out guys on patrol and you would do an old—fashioned advance to contact almost. with the where they were and they would attack us where we were. it was more, what your average person might assume assume a war is more, what your average person might assume assume a war is like. 2011 was more. . . assume assume a war is like. 2011 was more... you're patrolling like police. you are there to reassure the locals and you would get ambushed almost on a frequent basis. with small arms fire, the ied freight was a lot more prevalent. that is the explosive devices hidden, putting roadsides that were killing and maiming a number of your

colleagues. back in the early deployments to afghanistan, they weren't used a great deal. they were used but as the taliban evolved their tactics because they realise they couldn't win a stand—up fight against the british and coalition forces out there, they naturally evolved to using more ied ‘s. forces out there, they naturally evolved to using more ied 's. mask about this in some detail because, as we said, some three years after you came out of prison, we know a lot more now about the mental state that you and your men were in because although they didn't appear in your original trial, there were papers from the report describing how you and your man had not been insufficient contact with commanding officers. they were warning signs that could have indicated that there we re that could have indicated that there were signs of quote, moral regression, psychological strain, deep fatigue, amongst you and your man. were you, let's be honest, really in a bad state by september

2011? it's always difficult because you don't recognise it in yourself. i was you don't recognise it in yourself. iwas ina you don't recognise it in yourself. i was in a position of command and have some subordinates below me in my location. i think it would have been very valuable f1 of those, someone been very valuable f1 of those, someone had noticed and said something to me out of the ordinary to say to a superior that... something to me out of the ordinary to say to a superior that. .. maybe they didn't care? it's borne out that a lot of them were suffering as well. generally, if you are suffering from mental illness, you may be the last person to know. as i was, you know, i didn't realise how bad i was until, obviously events led to their conclusion. one a former officer involved, colonel 0liver lee suggested that your company of marines were out of control. i don't know, again that is his opinion, which he is in part two

entitled to. it's difficult because we we re entitled to. it's difficult because we were spread entitled to. it's difficult because we were spread over entitled to. it's difficult because we were spread over lots of different locations. thing is, if you went out of control, is very ha rd to you went out of control, is very hard to explain what you did because let us get september 2011 stop you we re let us get september 2011 stop you were in the field, you had a long day when an apache helicopter attacked a group of insurgents, i believe. 0ne it taliban fighter was left grievously wounded. you and your small group of men went to that man and a short time later, he was alive and you shot him dead. if you went out of control, why did you do that? i think it is something that i have struggled to understand myself. it's been a long time and only since the appeal and the process going forward to that that i was diagnosed with a mental illness. it has made a slightly easierfor with a mental illness. it has made a slightly easier for me to understand that i wasn't myself, i wasn't acting as i should do because i was unwell. if, arguably, i hadn't been unwell, that wouldn't have happened. this is difficult staff because the

camera helmet video that you were unaware of at the time shows you pulling out your pistol, saying the words" shuffle off this mortal coil you bleep ". you bleep expletive i can't use on television. and then you said "this is nothing you wouldn't do to us". you then shot him and told your man that they must keep quiet about this because they knew that you'd just violated the of war. so it was premeditated, you're rational at the time. no, i think... you premeditated, you're rational at the time. no, ithink... you make premeditated, you're rational at the time. no, i think... you make a split second decision on the day. the gunshot, there is a 15 to 22nd pause before i say anything after that when your mind is racing and you know you've done something stupid. why have you done what you have just stupid. why have you done what you havejust done? stupid. why have you done what you have just done? and then stupid. why have you done what you havejust done? and then i stupid. why have you done what you have just done? and then i suppose the natural reaction is to try and justify what you've done and seek reassurance from those around you because you know you have done something wrong. you've acted badly,

why have you done it? you're not going to drop me in it now are you lads? and then you move on. so you're worried about getting into trouble. you aren't thinking in moral terms about the fact that you just murdered a man? well, it is... it is the mistake that has been made. like i said, there is a pause there where i went through that realisation that i'd made a mistake. it's a funny sort of word, isn't it, mistake. it's important we tease this out because there are many other cases that we can then discuss about discipline on the battlefield. do you believe now that you have committed a terrible crime?|j do you believe now that you have committed a terrible crime? i don't think it's wrong, i truly believe my actions on the day didn't change the outcome of that gentleman. that's unknowable isn't that?” outcome of that gentleman. that's unknowable isn't that? i saw him close up, i saw what the rounds had

done to his body and i have seen enough people in various states of u nfortu nately, enough people in various states of unfortunately, from my service, and in my genuine, honest belief, it was that he was not... i accept that. but obviously it is not your role as a soldier on the battlefield to play god and you know the geneva convention article three thereof tell you as an act of soldier that when you come across and enemy co m bata nts when you come across and enemy combatants that is either unarmed or wounded or sick to the point where he represents no threat, you have to act ina he represents no threat, you have to act in a humanitarian way to try and save a life, not take a life. like i said, it is not great and it's points that i have brought up in my book, it's not something i'm proud of. is their shame that? shame, yet,

like i said, i let myself down, let the guys i was serving with down. again, if arguably i hadn't been ill at the time, it would never have happened. is on this point, because you are a professional soldier and i know you're very proud of being a professional soldier, would you accept that if others took the action you did on that day and were not then held to account, that would be extraordinarily corrosive for everything connected to discipline, order and any sort of ethics or morality on the battlefield? order and any sort of ethics or morality on the battlefield ?|j order and any sort of ethics or morality on the battlefield? i think you have to look at every situation individually because the situations and how they evolve and like i said, the mental health of the person involved, need to be taken into account. it is too hard to just give account. it is too hard to just give a broad statement that everything should be punished without a thorough investigation. another

point on this because i have looked at quite a few studies of war crimes and crimes on the battlefield and for example, going back to the second world war, there is significant evidence that the jewish and american forces committed more abuses against, for example, japanese soldiers in the pacific theatre than they did against germans in the european theatre. 0ne theory is that it is easy to other people who look very different, who have a different culture, seem more easy to turn into the enemy and the other and to dehumanise. do you think that may have been relevant to you in afghanistan? no, not personally. i had a great relationship with the locals out there which you could class as the other is that is the term you want to use, not that i would. i was there to protect them. i was there police force, i developed a close

working relationships with some of the local elders. they never felt threatened, or failed to come to ask for help from me in building projects and security concerns. i think you use the example of obviously japan and the axis forces during the war, if you're going down that road, the way they treated us probably paid more into the way that they were then treated in return. if you look at somewhere like the conflict during the second world war in north africa, it was thought very gentlemanly, prisoners were taken because it's such a harsh environment. what was shared, resources we re environment. what was shared, resources were shared and that was reciprocal on both sides. of course, the danger of an argument that we were only doing to them what they did to us is that you and the british army are supposed to be there upholding values, fighting for a democratic system, a form of

governance which of course, the taliban is trying to undermine. you're trying to send a message about british values which frankly your actions... i'm not suggesting it is right. i'm just using your example as a reason why that happened back then. from my point of view, it had no bearing on my actions on the day. more on my mental health being the key factor there. so let's get back to this long—winded judicial process. the court—martial convicted you of murder. yes. you are a murderer. yes. but maggie was sent to prison initially for ten years and then it was reduced to eight. you within the subject of a very high profile campaign that this was an injustice. and ultimately, i think it was in 2017, an appeal court, marshall court, decided that actually, given the new evidence about your mental states, you had committed manslaughter, not murder. do you feel, given how long it took to get

to this point, desperately let down by the military? no. you know, i still have great affection for the military, especially the royal marines. you know, arguably mistakes we re marines. you know, arguably mistakes were made by legal teams, you know, which were criticised by the appeals court. you know, when you are new to a legal... you know, it was my first real interaction with the justice system, you don't know what to expect and you don't know what looks good. you know, it wasn't ideal, but you know, we worked through it, and you've got to get on with your life. ultimately though, and we discussed this at the very beginning, this has been definitely a life changing thing for you. yes. it wouldn't have happened if you'd been taken off the battlefield because of the mental illness that you now say you were suffering at the time of this incident. yes. well, it's notjust me. i mean, a number of highly respected... i absolutely respect

that. the problem for you as you can't rewrite history, but you should not have been on that battlefield. yes, you could argue that. less now think about what this says more generally about the difficulty of, if you like, policing was and rattle fields. because your case is not isolated. there are many cases involving uk forces in different combat zones, but us forces as well, in recent years, which suggest that soldiers do commit crimes, and that very, very often, they are not held to account for those crimes. would you agree?” don't know statistics. i mean, it's possible. i mean, let's be honest. in your experience in afghanistan, did other soldiers do things like you did and whenever held to account? not that i was a witness to or aware of? so your action was, as

far as you are concerned, uniquely beyond the pale, beyond the rules.” must say, i have no direct knowledge of anything similar. so, you know, it would be wrong for me to sort of gas or to assume. let's bring this up gas or to assume. let's bring this up to date, because it strikes me as very interesting. your perspective on what the new government in the uk, led by borisjohnson, has said about offering more protection to military personnel, protection from what is being called vexatious legal claims. are you supportive of that, or do you think that comes with real problems and issues? again, it is impossible to comment on a case—by—case basis, but if there is a crime done and there is genuine evidence of that crime, everything should be prosecuted. if, however... like you, you should have been prosecuted. you don't question that. yes, i'm not denied that. but if, arguably, where unscrupulous people have, you know, given financial incentives to people who come out

and make false accusations, you know, there should be protection against those. donald trump, us president, of course, he very recently overturned the demotion and the dishonourable discharge of a naval petty officer by the name of eddie gallagher who had been convicted of breaking the rules by posing with the dead body of an islamic state very young teenage fighter in mosul, in iraq. i don't know if you follow that case at all, but what do you make of a politician who intervenes and describes said person, eddie gallagher, as a hero, despite the blatant evidence that he had broken the rules of war?m despite the blatant evidence that he had broken the rules of war? it is difficult, and again... us politics and policy are quite different to how things are done everywhere else.

donald trump is arguably quite an outspoken person who has his own worldview. i am sure you have many collea g u es worldview. i am sure you have many colleagues and comrades who have served in northern ireland alongside you and many other places too. you will know that going back to 1972, and the terrible incident known as luddy sunday, where i think 13 civilians lost their lives after troops opened fire —— bloody sunday, there has never been a conviction of a british soldierfor there has never been a conviction of a british soldier for involvement in that, although we know the killings took place. you can bring it forward took place. you can bring it forward to iraq, and some of the civilians killed in iraq who claimed that british forces were responsible. very few have ever been put into a court and held to account. do you worry that, in britain, we can look close to home, in britain, there is a failure repeatedly to hold military personnel to account?” don't know if there is a failure. and again, i think it is hard when you don't know the details of the case. and again, it would be wrong for me to make broad sweeping

statements. but if, you know, generally if there is evidence there, and it's beyond a shadow of a doubt evidence, you'd like to think that justice would be doubt evidence, you'd like to think thatjustice would be done. if there is not that level of evidence, you can understand why convictions aren't taken forward, or prosecutions. i just wonder whether you feel a little resentful of that because of this one helmetcam that you weren't even aware of, frankly that's the reason you got convicted, and many others where there wasn't that specific, clear evidence have never, ever faced a that specific, clear evidence have never, everfaced a court that specific, clear evidence have never, ever faced a court room. and that's the legal system. if there is no evidence or if there is insufficient evidence, no—one's prosecuted. and it's hard... no, i don't find that egregious to myself. i don't feel hard done by. you know, if there is no evidence or there's a lack of evidence, people shouldn't be prosecuted. they shouldn't find themselves in prison. just a final thought, personal thoughts, and where this has left you. i know now that you work with ex— military people, trying to help them reintegrate into society. because often, like you, many of them have

been through severe mental strain and stress, it difficult. do you feel now that the military was the right careerfor you feel now that the military was the right career for you to take, or do you wish you'd never got involved? no, ido you wish you'd never got involved? no, i do it again tomorrow. would you? yes, i love my service. apart from that one incident in the circumstances around it, i had 16 yea rs of circumstances around it, i had 16 years of working with some exceptional people, many of whom i'm still good friends with, seeing on a regular basis. i've still got a very close affiliation with the royal marines. i'm a trustee for a local somerset royal marines charity. you know, i have... do you mind me asking, do you have kids? no. one i just wonder if any loved one close to you, young person, was saying i am king ofjoining up, what do you reckon? what would you say? i would recommend it. iwould reckon? what would you say? i would recommend it. i would say that a career in the armed forces of this country is... it's always been seen

asa country is... it's always been seen as a way for people to almost transition away from a life they may not like, you know, to make a bold change. and i think some of the things that have come in to the armed service, where they have made great strides in looking after the mental health of men and women who serve, you know, i'd argue that the situation i found myself in, when my mental health deteriorated to a point beyond where it should have, wouldn't happen again. you really think that? you see some servicemen today who come out and do feel let down by the military. they say the military covenant, the notion that we went to fight for the country on the basis that the country would look after us, has been broken. and i suspected going into this interview you might be one of those, given the experiences you have had, but you're not saying that. no, my actions were my own, and it would be very easy for me to throw stones at military and wave the angry fist. but no, like i say, i enjoyed my service. i got a lot from it. some great friends and some great

experiences. you know, i'm not going to look back and think, oh, i wish i hadn't havejoined, to look back and think, oh, i wish i hadn't have joined, because to look back and think, oh, i wish i hadn't havejoined, because i don't think that way. and like i say, i still recommend it to people. the royal marines is a great organisation. many of the other branches of the armed forces overworked with our full of dedicated people who work tirelessly for the defence of this country —— i've worked with. i'm not arguing the mistakes have occasionally made, but i think again, like i say, the strides that have been made in protecting their mental health, you know, since i've left, you know, hopefully will ensure that people don't find themselves in a similar situation. you know, i might be wrong, but there is work on going to make sure that doesn't happen. we have to end their, but alexander blackman, thank you very much for being on hardtalk. thank you. my pleasure.

hello. monday brought some beautiful winter sunshine to large swathes of the uk. unfortunately, the prospects for the rest of this week are distinctly dull for one reason or another, be it a lot of low cloud lurking about, orfor this morning, some pretty stubborn fog. the high pressure that's keeping things dry is going to be staying with us, but it's just going to reorientate itself a little through the next few days, eventually shifting away south—westwards and pulling in more moisture from the atlantic. and that's what's going to help to thicken our cloud. for this morning, the densest of fog likely to be an issue, i think, across southern counties of england and into south wales. a lot of our major motorways, of course, in this area. please do bear in mind when you take to the roads that the fog could be

patchy, so you could be in it one minute, out of it the next, then back in, and that is particularly dangerous. and tuesday, as promised, a pretty grey affair. best of any breaks probably to the lee of high ground, the east of the pennines, sheltered spots to the east of scotland. further west, some rain actually for argyll and bute. topsy—turvy temperatures, actually. 0ur mildest weather to the north of the uk, with that atlantic feed to the north of the high. to the south, just six or seven, colder if you get stuck where the fog lingers. 0vernight tuesday into wednesday, plenty of cloud across the uk, plenty of moisture, generally very murky, and because of all that cloud around, our temperatures will be held up. so frost limited possibly to a few pockets across southernmost counties of england for first thing on wednesday. and you can see the high here, as promised, sitting a little bit further south—westwards. and i've put the colour on behind me here to show you the air mass, to show you the atlantic air tipping over the top of the high and spilling its way south into england and wales for wednesday. things on the ground not looking too different, unfortunately. how many ways can you say cloudy and grey?

best of any breaks in the east. but the temperatures do just nudge up a little. about 10—12 degrees typically across the uk, certainly the biggest increase to the south. and for the rest of the week, same old, same old. the high still with us, always slightly milder to the north, a little cooler to the south. some signs of a bit more rainfall perhaps across scotland, for a time, as a front works its way in. but, by the end of the week, the high really does start to break down, and then friday into saturday, it looks like we'll get an area of low pressure sweeping across the uk. that gets rid of a lot of the murk. we should see the return of some sunny spells, but they will also be accompanied by some showers, and look out — it will turn windier once again as well. 00:27:59,982 --> 2147483051:50:44,706 mental health being the key factor 2147483051:50:44,706 --> 4294966103:13:29,430 there.