tv Tuesday in Parliament BBC News March 11, 2020 2:30am-3:01am GMT
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our top stories: italy still in lockdown, public gatherings forbidden, tourist spots virtually deserted. it virtually deserted. is effectively —— it has effectively it is effectively —— it has effectively self isolated, closing down schools and restricting sporting events. in the us, a one—mile containment zone is in place around new york suburb new rochelle, around a large cluster of cases. the national guard has been deployed to clean up public spaces and deliver food. joe to clean up public spaces and deliverfood. joe biden has extended his lead in the us to become the democratic party's his lead in the us to become the democratic pa rty‘s candidate. his lead in the us to become the democratic party's candidate. he is on course to be senator sanders in missouri and mississippi, as well as the biggest prize of the night, michigan. it's about 2:30am in the
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morning. you are up—to—date on the headlines. time for thursday in parliament. —— tuesday. hello there and welcome to tuesday in parliament. coming up, the government sees off a commons rebellion over its planned use of chinese tech firm huawei. the ayes to the right, 282. the noes to the left, 306. wow! labour condemns as shameful the way both greece and turkey have handled refugees stuck on their border. turkey for wilfully putting them in that impossible position in the first place, knowing that there is nowhere for them to go, and greece for its
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unacceptable, heavy—handed response. and, mps hearfrom former sub—post office staff accused of stealing after an it failure. as soon as i paid the post office they took all the money. so, we couldn't even move into another house, we had to move in with my son. but first, it wasn't a defeat, but the government saw its majority cut to just 2a in the commons as senior conservatives rebelled over plans to allow the chinese telecoms company huawei a role in the uk's 5g mobile internet network. the rebels, led by the former conservative leader sir iain duncan smith, tried to make changes to a bill in the commons so that huawei would be banned from the project from the start of 2023. well, tory critics say the firm is an arm of the chinese state and a risk to uk security, claims it rejects. the use of huawei technology in the 5g network was signed off by number 10 and security experts earlier this year,
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but on condition that it's kept out of the most sensitive areas and its involvement is capped at 35%. opening the debate, labour said the risks could be managed but it had seen no evidence that they were being. we do not think that the involvement of chinese companies in our network infrastructure is necessarily an unmanageable security risk, and i am choosing my words very carefully, but we do believe that it represents a risk, and the reason we believe that is because that is what our security services say. tearing huawei out of our networks would have significant costs and delay. mobile uk, the trade organisation for the telecoms...for the mobile industry, estimate that that that would be £7 billion and it would delay 5g by 18 months. i worry when we start compromising security. i worry, and this is the point i want to make. we have no friends out there any more on this issue.
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whether it's the canadians, the americans, the australians, the new zealanders, they all disagree with us! so i need some absolute clarity from the secretary of state as my colleagues, i think, do. and number one, that we do plan and it is the government's intention, to move to essentially rid ourselves of high—risk vendors from our system. and the point about that is it needs a well to be a concept of timescale in this. so i want the government... and he wanted a bill on 5g and huawei back in front of mps as soon as possible. if they don't want us to try and create trouble on this bill, i simply say to them, and they must give an absolute, lock—tight commitment that the bill that is relevant to this returns before the summer break, categorically before that, as early as possible, it could be in may, so that we can properly see this, these commitments, plus others, written into the face of the bill
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so that we can understand that it is the government's intention. we cannot ignore the national cybersecurity centre's determinations on huawei, who they consider to be a high—risk vendor. we cannot ignore the fact that as a chinese company, huawei could be ordered to harm uk interests under china's national intelligence law of 2017. once a virus is placed into our digital system, it cannot be constrained by the government washing its hands of the problem while singing god save the queen. it is essential in this debate that we do not allow conflation between the issues of trade and security. in order to achieve greater trade with china, we do not need to sacrifice our national security by including wireway as part of that risk. the minister promised a bill will come to the comments in the next few months.
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we will be considering a telecoms bill for the house in the next few months. we will be bringing forward that piece of legislation before the summer recess. we are clear eyed by the challenges posed by wireway. that is why the national security centre, the national security council, has decided that high—risk vendors should be censored from critical elements of the network and should be restricted from sensitive networks and they should be a 35% cap on their market share. we will of course keep this 35% cap under review and over the time this plan is to reduce our reliance on high—risk offenders as this process of market diversification takes we want to get to up place where we do not have to use high—risk vendors in our telecoms network at all. but he couldn't give a date for that. well, labour said it couldn't see what was new on offer. the minister repeated his three key
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points. the promise of a telecoms safety bill by the summer. a plan to develop more security. but those promises did not swipe sir iain duncan smith who pushed his amendment to a vote. the government won, but not by much. the ayes to the right, 282. the noes to the left, 306. oh, wow! they're coming for you, they're coming for you. the ayes to the right, 282. the noes to the left, 306. so the noes have it, the noes have it. unlock. that vote seeing 38 tory mps vote against the government's plans, including former cabinet ministers. david days, sir ian fox and duncan
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smith. now, the head of the civil service has told mps that the resignation of the home office's most senior official over bullying allegations against the home secretary was very regrettable. philip rutnam quit as the department's permanent secretary last month, accusing priti patel of bullying. she has denied the allegations, giving evidence to the the constitutional affairs committee she said that she could not discuss the specifics of the case but ministers should behave professionally and courteously with their officials. philip rutnam, 33 years in the civil service has accused priti patel of swearing, vilifying people, making unreasonable and repeated demands. where he could he go without and ultimately did he have to walk away from that himself? you understand i have to be very careful about commenting on the individual case. he has resigned and he has said that he is planning to bring
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legal action against the government so i have to be really circumspect in anything i say. if a permanent secretary believes that their minister's conduct has breached the ministerial code, and they have been unable to resolve it with them in person, then i would expect that permanent secretary to bring it to me and then i would need to either intervene myself, discuss it with the prime minister or take whatever the appropriate action is. but we will understand i am talking about the general there because it would not be like to comment about the specific case. we have an ongoing investigation into allegations as the chancellor of the duchy of lancaster set out last week into the home secretary and we have a potential legal action being brought by the former permanent secretary so we have to be very careful about what i say in this particular case. regardless of the outcome of this
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particular instance, that mr cowen touched on, doesn't that show that the informality of this process is one thing, and perhaps there is a need for a clearer definition of roles and responsibilities? i don't think so, because i think... this is clearly a very regrettable incident, i regret philip rutnam's decision to resign and hope that it could have been avoided, and we have to allow that case and indeed the other investigation to take their course. i don't think we should necessarily be trying to write further regulations around relationships that, in the vast majority of cases, are conducted professionally and with — in accordance with both the letter and the spirit of the various codes. there are tensions and difficulties, we deal with those when they arise. in general, i think the mechanisms we have available to us are adequate
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to the task and our expectation is that professional people — senior and experienced professional people — conduct professional relationships with each other. a former minister said there was no definition of bullying in the ministerial code. 0ne minister's behaviour has been described as "blunt and forthright" by one commentator and by other commentators as "bullying." do you think the time has come to include a definition of what is meant by bullying? i think we have to be careful about trying to over describe that. i think i have been described as a blunt and forthright by myself on occasion. and of course, what you have to consider with any of these issues, is the effect it is having on others. so a conversation for example, between you and i, might be pretty direct and blunt, if however that was a conversation with someone much more junior in my line management structure, less experience, then they might consider that's the power imbalance, if you like, meant that that way
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of expressing ourselves was unfair, and then might raise that with me. recently, the prime minister's senior adviser dominic cummings made headlines when he advertised for "weirdos and misfits" tojoin his team. do you think the government will benefit from having more widows and misfits as part of it? —— weirdos. i like the response to that he pointed out that people who mostly work long hours for less money than they might get somewhere else might fit at least one of those descriptions, so... i wouldn't necessarily use that exact language but the idea of trying to encourage people who would naturally think of it to come into public service and make and make a contribution to our national endeavour is a good one.
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sir mark sedwill there. now, italy has extended its emergency coronavirus measures, which include travel restrictions and a ban on public gatherings, to the entire country. on monday, prime minister giuseppe conte ordered people to stay at home and seek permission for essential travel. italy is the worst—hit country after china. here, ministers and experts are defending their approach to tackling the outbreak, arguing that cancelling big, outdoor events like football matches would not necessarily be a decision supported by science as the virus will not survive very long outside. at health questions, matt hancock updated mps. the global coronavirus outbreak is clearly growing. last night, italy placed the whole country into quarantine. we have updated our travel advice to advise against all but essential travel to italy. all those returning from any area of italy must self—isolate for 14 days. this is in addition to our advice that anyone who visited the specific areas of northern italy
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which were originally locked down in the past two weeks, should self—isolate for 14 days. we will do everything we can to keep people safe based on the very best scientific advice. a conservative asked about personal protective equipment known as ppe for health workers such as family doctors. a world leader in the transmission of infections has raised with me a vital question which is the provision of protective suits and training because at the moment it's not being given to gps, i'm told, its being given more exclusively to hospital staff. will you please look into that and do something about it? i'm right across this issue, and he's right to raise it, but i can reassure him fully that we now have rolled out ppe to a two thirds of primary care, and the rest of it is in progress. so, we will absolutely address this. it's quite right that we did.
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we wanted to get the timing of the roll—out right so the equipment is there, should this epidemic hit them in a very large way. we have got to make sure that we protect our health staff. personal protective equipment can be as important in social care settings as it is in hospital or gp settings, but care staff report having to buy their own gloves, and one care provider had their own protective equipment requisitioned by the nhs. the secretary of state says he is all over this issue, so, what plans does he have to ensure that care staff have access to protective equipment to protect them and the people they care for? of course, care staff, too, are absolutely vital in the national effort to address coronavirus, not least because of the increased risk of many people who are in both residential settings and also have received domiciliary care, the work to make sure that protective equipment is available extends to social care staff. of course, most social care is provided through private businesses, and therefore it is a different delivery model,
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but it doesn't make it any less important, and i'm very happy for her and the minister for care to have a meeting to make sure that we can listen to keep the concerns that she has heard, because, of course, we want to address them. trying to keep a sense of perspective. last weekend government sources indicated that the worst case scenario would be 100,000 deaths due to the coronavirus outbreak. given that china has reported just over 3000 deaths, and they've been at the epicentre of the virus for ten weeks, but have a population 20 times greater than the united kingdom, was the 100,000 figure a helpful reference? well, of course we have to plan for a reasonable worst—case scenario, but we are working incredibly hard to avoid that scenario. the chinese government undertook some very, very significant actions, and what is not yet clear is whether the impact of the actions that they took was to slow the spread such that when those actions are lifted, the spread continues, or whether the virus has, in effect, already gone
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through the population of hubei. we do not yet know that, and therefore it is not yet possible to interpret the epidemiological consequences of the deaths figure in china. you're watching tuesday in parliament with me, alicia mccarthy. the foreign office minister has told mps that the uk is "very concerned" about the situation on the greek turkish border. last weekend turkey announced that it would no longer stop migrants trying to enter greece. tens of thousands are now stuck at the land border with greece, where greek guards have fired tear gas and water cannon many are syrians fleeing the civil war. five eu countries have agreed to take in some migrant children who are stranded in greece. the minister was responding to an urgent question from the snp. in his greenwich speech,
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on the 3rd of february, the prime minister said, and i quote, the uk is not a european power by treaty or by law, but by a remarkable fact of history and geography and language and culture and instinct and sentiment. now, british citizens like my constituent sally have lived up to that sentiment and done what they can. i want to know what the government, the uk government, is going to do on the ground to ease the humanitarian disaster. we remain absolutely committed to supporting greece's efforts to manage the migration effectively, but we do urge all sides, it is imperative we urge all sides to avoid any actions that may endanger human life. the behaviour of both greece and turkey to the refugees stuck on their mutual border is utterly shameful. turkey, for wilfully putting them
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in that impossible position in the first place, knowing that there is nowhere for them to go, and greece for its unacceptable heavy handed response, including the use of tear gas and water cannon, even against people in flimsy dinghies in treacherous conditions. much as the self—interested sympathies of germany and other neighbouring eu countries may lie with the greek government, there is no right or wrong in this crisis. studio: many mps were concerned about the reports that there were hundreds of unaccompanied children. can the minister please confirm that he is joining the coalition of the willing, or the government is doing the coalition of the willing, led by the german government to relocate 1500 child refugees to try and help with some of the pressures in this crisis? the new uk resettlement scheme, we are aiming to resettle in the region of 5000 of the worlds most vulnerable refugees. clearly, previously we have helped over 22,800 refugees. our initial target was 20,000. the vast majority, as he will know, with syrian refugees, and clearly, if they are the most vulnerable, that is likely
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to include high numbers of children. studio: but his answer didn't satisfy mps. can you tell me what specific additional measures uk government will undertake to put in place to protect these most vulnerable children? she will have heard already, we are putting significant amounts of humanitarian aid in those border areas, over 22,800 refugees have already been settled, and we do aim to resettle a further 5000. the foreign office minister. people convicted of theft and false accounting over a post office it failure have demanded a judge led inquiry into the scandal. they are among more than 550 former workers who have secured a £58 million out—of—court settlement from the post office after a 20 year fight forjustice. those caught up in the battle blame faults with the post office's
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horizon accounting system. speaking to the commons business committee, one described what happened when she was questioned about a 36 thousand pounds loss supposedly due to missing stamps. they said in that interview that they were going to investigate what had happened, because i was the only person this had ever happened to. it had to be me. was i sure i hadn't stolen it? i gave them all bank account details, i gave them everything, because i have nothing to hide. i hadn't actually done anything wrong, ijust didn't know why it had happened. she raised £10,000 to pay back part of the alleged loss but heard nothing for 18 months. then i was delivered a package to say that they were putting mour house and our bank accounts
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under proceeds of primat so that we couldn't actually spend any money, do anything. they then allowed me to sell the post office so that i could pay them the £26,000, but then as soon as i paid the post office they took all the money, so we couldn't even move into another house, we had to move in with my son. another witness was prosecuted over a till discrepancy of £11,000. they had access to bank accounts, to my home, they found nothing, and then we went through court, i had to go through a trial because i pleaded not guilty, and then all through the court, it was never, "what could have happened to the money?", it wasjust "what have you done with the money?" and then i was found guilty of stealing the money from my signature on paperwork, from the till receipt, and then i was sentenced to six months in holloway prison. is what she has told
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typical of these cases? there are some whose lives have changed, and some have taken it in their stride. tell us about that. there have been suicides, a huge amount of bankruptcies, houses repossessed, people can't get loans, can getjobs. it has ruined families. there is a presumption of guilt. always, it always has been across the years. it has been reported that they have been ordered to pay compensation.
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how much do you think will actually reach them? the problem is, the majority went on costs, and around 11 and a half million that will be spread out around the 555 people in the case. i think people will hear probably at the end of next week how much they are actually going to receive, but it is calculating across all 550 cases, to be fair, about what happened to them in their particular instance. nobody will be happy with it, we know this. that is why we are so keen to recover the cost that we had to pay out. so, you want a public enquiry. we have this, but it is not what you rightly demand. you want a public enquiry. we want people to account for what they did to us. i think there should be a judge led enquiry. we need to get to the bottom of the people that have paid the money, where has
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that money gone? we have to have a judge led enquiry to ensure that going forward, people trust the post office enough to actually want to go and have an office and work in the office, because you won't have that structure there any more. by the postmasters they have got, they have destroyed their own post office network. the problems encountered by the new benefit universal credit have been well documented. delays in its roll out, cuts to funding and concerns about the wait for payments to be made. the lords economic affairs committee went back to first base, questioning the people who launched the system in 2013. one of the key architects was former conservative leader sir iain duncan smith. there is a tendency in this debate outside, i by no means blame your lordships on this, that this is a debate that has gone
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on which has somehow seem to reflect that what happened previously was sort of nirvana, that everything worked well, and if you read this report, which i think is a very good and file a report from nick dermot who, by the way has been writing about this stuff, obviously, since i was in shorts, but the reality is he makes it clear there is no such position to take on this. this is really important. what happened before had real problems with it and lives were genuinely damaged by what went on and the idea that somehow because it was your policy and now you've changed it, not true. start from the premise that what happened before was not functioning properly. what we have here is a system i believe now and will get better. sir iain duncan smith at the end of a busy day for him! and that's it from me for now but do join me at the same time tomorrow for the highlights of prime minister's questions and from rishi sunak‘s first budget.
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but for now from me, goodbye. hello there. on tuesday we had a temperature of 16.5 degrees at kew gardens and in cambridgeshire, making it the warmest day of the year so far. for some southern parts of the uk, the air originated all the way from the azores, hence that bit of warmth. further north, the air is cooler and it's the cooler air that will win out over the next few days. these shower clusters are heading into the north—west of the uk. this band of cloud, all that's left of the earlier rain taking some patchy rain and drizzle southwards into the english channel but keeping temperatures up across southern england and wales. colder air further north, though, and lots of showers packing into scotland and northern ireland. and here we'll have showers or longer spells of rain on wednesday. some heavy bursts of rain and snow of the hills of scotland. some of those hours will be blown into northern england and wales. towards the south—east of the uk, they get away with a dry day. it will be quite blustery out there, mind you, especially in those heavy showers and across the north—west of scotland, gusts of 50, maybe even 60 miles an hour. here, the air is a little bit cooler, but there's still warmth
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to be found across eastern parts of england, temperatures not far of what we saw on tuesday, 14—15 degrees. but it will get colder, i think, later on in the week. and we've got this weather front taking some wetter weather into england and wales on wednesday night. and it's behind that the area gets quite a bit colder and we see the snow level lowering on wednesday night in scotland and northern england. some icy conditions here as there could be in northern ireland as well. but the snow levels will rise, i think, on thursday. but we'lljust keep wetter weather piling into scotland and northern ireland, the winds strengthening as well and will blow some rain into the north—west of england. a few passing showers across southern parts of england and wales, they may get away with a dry day in the midlands. temperatures back to near where they should be for this time of year as they cooler air arrives. that area of low pressure keeps wetter weather going across the northern half of the uk during thursday evening,
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that pushes away and we get a ridge of high pressure in time for friday morning. so, it's a chilly start, yes, the winds will have eased and most places will start dry and sunny. it won't be too long, though, before the cloud bubbles up and spreads throughout the day. and those temperatures are still quite healthy for this time of year, 8—12 degrees. that rain will push its way eastwards on friday night, we'll see more rain arriving in the north—west of the uk on saturday. that then sweeps its down way into england and wales and cooler air follows into the north—west on sunday with some sunshine and some blustery showers.
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a very warm welcome to bbc news. my name's mike embley. our top stories: italy in lockdown, public gatherings forbidden, tourist sites virtually deserted. and doctors give stark advice to the public. stay at home and be prepared for a kind of war, because we are facing a war here. in the us, a one—mile containment zone is now in place around new york suburb new rochelle, around a large cluster of cases. joe biden deals another blow to bernie sanders in the latest round of the us democratic party's primaries.
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