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its about az30am. you're up to date on the headlines —— it is about az30am. time now for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm shaun ley. idlib, syria's sole remaining rebel province, is on the verge of the biggest horry story of the 21st century, so says the un's top official responsible for emergency relief. almost a million civilians have fled their homes since december. my guest today is doctor mufaddal hamadeh, president of the syrian american medical society. he has been to idlib this year and seen for himself the carnage of war and how hospitals and clinics which should give sanctuary have been bombed. after nine years of war, have we become indifferent to syria's pain?

doctor mufaddal hamadeh, welcome to hardtalk, thanks for being with us. you visited idlib in late january, how would you describe what you saw there? i'm originally from idlib, i was born in idlib in 1959... i gave away my age quickly! and i know idlib very well because i visited idlib very well because i visited idlib many times after that. idlib used to be a very small, quiet, boring town. i never used to like going there with my parents. i was very excited to visit idlib this time, contrary to my previous visits. but idlib is a different

place today, totally different. it transformed to a very busy city. it is very crowded. most of the people who are in11 is very crowded. most of the people who are in 11 now are not originally from idlib, they have been displaced from idlib, they have been displaced from other towns and other cities, damascus, so idlib transformed itself from almost 100,000, you know, inhabitants to almost over1 million now. so effectively there isn't enough room for people to have shelter. yeah. the thing that struck me the most when i'm visiting the hospitals and the clinics we have there in idlib, and visiting the people, two things. number one is the resiliency of the people, the resiliency of the medical staff and the doctors who are working hard to save lives, but something very, very sad struck me. there's a total apathy to loss, pain and suffering and death. as if pain and suffering and death. as if pain and suffering and death. as if pain and suffering and death came

basically the norm, the daily thing in life. my first visit to my hospital, the central hospital in idlib of the first patient i saw was a nine—year—old child who had a shrapnel wound in his brain, had a shrapnel wound in his brain, had a shrapnel wound in his brain, had a shrapnel wound in his face and his leg. he was ok, he was going to survive, but he had no emotions. when i talked to his brother who is a teenager, he told me that he lost five siblings that same day. two months ago he lost six siblings, including his mother, 11 of his family and he had no emotions. the story was told repeatedly to me, i did not see any emotions from the nurses 01’ did not see any emotions from the nurses or the doctors or anything and this is everyday life, this is what is happening in idlib. that last... the apathy, the numbness to pain and suffering is what i... really struck me the most during my visit to idlib. you mention you run the hospitals and clinics, what scale of the work

do you provide? how many doctors are you providing? how much money are you providing? how much money are you pumping into keep what is almost a collapsed health system going? sams, the syrian american medical society, which basically started in 1998 and transformed itself to an ngo back in... nine years ago when the war started in syria, we started the war started in syria, we started the day budget of... in 2017 our peak budget was $112 million. until recently, we provided half of the medical needs for the population in idlib, which was about 3.7 million people. last year, we had about a0 hospitals and clinics that we ran. this number continues to shrink for many reasons, one of them is where losing territory, but most importantly our hospitals are being targeted. and just in the last week,

before april, march the first, we had to close ten hospitals, two of them were actually badly damaged and we had to move them to a different location, so as of today we have 22 different facilities, including a nursing school and a midwifery school. i want to talk about the hospitals in a moment, but to pick up hospitals in a moment, but to pick up on hospitals in a moment, but to pick up on one hospitals in a moment, but to pick up on one thing, the closure of those hospitals on the first of march, that was a few days for russia and turkey agreed a ceasefire. has that in anyway improve the situation on the ground? actually it's a disaster, a huge disaster, because as you close hospitals and clinics, and as many people are being displaced, about 950,000 of them right now, access to medical care becomes extremely important. not only that, where losing a lot of equipment and medications and ways to be able to help the people. because one would

have thought the ceasefire would have thought the ceasefire would have been an opportunity to kind of restock and give you the opportunity to bring in supplies. i'm sorry, i misunderstood, the ceasefire i think was very important for people to breathe. you know, as the situation is today, the main medical needs in syria are medical, it is basic life humanitarian aid like food and shelter and basic sanitary conditions. all these are missing right now. for that reason, we diverted some of the medical funds that we have two basically provide shelter and gas and... the basics of living. food and nutrition. so you're doing that on top of providing the medical help. let's talk about hospitals, you've described going in and seeing your first patient, what are the conditions of doctors and nurses and

the other staff are operating in? the problem is... first, a lot of them are sometimes to do work they're not trained to do because of lack of healthcare facilities and healthcare personnel. they are overworked right now because of closures of other hospitals in other communities, but most importantly many of them, with the closure of oui’ many of them, with the closure of our hospitals and clinics, are also becoming displaced themselves. so many of our doctors, many of our nursing staff, many of our ancillary staff have to be displaced too. and so... despite all of this, are they still willing to come? are you having any problems recruiting? not at all, not at all. our doctors actually have been unbelievably giving. i mean, one day history will record that the

syrian doctors have been, you know, the heroes of this, you know, whole situation... the crisis of syria. under immense pressure and under the fa ct under immense pressure and under the fact that they are being targeted in their hospitals and their clinics, and many of them will go to work, to the hospital, not knowing if they're going to come back or not. can i quote you and see if this chimes with the view expressed by some of your colleagues, doctor macro taref working in idlib has described in an interview with aljazeera last month what conditions are like, he said there was always the thought i would go to the hospital and never come back. it was mentally exhausting because we had to work under co nsta nt because we had to work under constant bombing. whenever i heard of jets constant bombing. whenever i heard ofjets in the sky i've thought the hospital would be the next target, that put most of us in the medical field under enormous psychological pressure. just imagine, since april of last year, there have been 95 direct

attacks on hospitals. and since the war started in syria, you know, sams and the physicians for human rights documented 588 attacks on hospitals. attacking a hospital or being reckless under international law is a warcrimes. definitely. and this is what is happening. it is a warcrimes. i would like to refer you to the united nations commission of enquiry thatjust to the united nations commission of enquiry that just came to the united nations commission of enquiry thatjust came out a couple of days ago, clearly indicating that the russians... but is a rare transparency for the united nations, by the way, i know i indicated the russians and the regime committed warcrimes. you would support that view? you have no doubt... we know that and i can refer you to reports by the new york times proving how the russians just recently targeted all those hospitals. you see, they're supposed to be a un organised system, it has a terrible name, the humanitarian de—

de—confliction mechanism, it doesn't exactly trip off the tongue, but more importantly this is meant to ensure hospitals don't get hit. you said more than 90 hospitals have been hit in the course of the last ten months or so, 11 months, so what's gone wrong? is a list of sites... the different groups, produce, presumably including yours, provide co—ordinates to the un and the un is supposed to provide them to the co—ordinates and they are supposed to mark them on their maps or radars, whatever system they have, don't bomb in this area. the de—confliction process doesn'tjust identify hospitals and clinics but places of worship, markets, schools and all that stuff. 0ur concern at sama s, being a medical organisation, we have consulted with our people on the ground about de—confliction and many didn't want to do it because they know they would be targeted regardless. then we said, "ok, we know we're going to

be targeted regardless whether we share the information with the un or not, but one day we hope we will have accountability". for that reason, the only reason we agreed to share the location of our hospitals with the un hoping that one day we will have accountability and, you know, just recently, as recent as last week in january, know, just recently, as recent as last week injanuary, one of know, just recently, as recent as last week in january, one of the doctors was killed. the un office for co—ordination of humanitarian affairs relies on the relief organisations to provide this information that it passes on, it has no mechanism to ensure the competence to confirm they have received the information. again, that must make it incredibly risky that must make it incredibly risky that something goes wrong, even if it's not deliberate, that actually the information has come through, they don't know about the site, the co—ordinates are wrong and some sites have been given incorrect

addresses... they are known to the regime. why doesn't the the un ensure this is accurate, if you want accountability, proving that russia, the syrian armed forces, whether, received this information is critical, isn't it? we had an argument from the russians saying the co—ordinates were off by a few metres, and that's why one hospital in particular was hit. this is the russian ambassador to the un, saying in lots of instances, he told a news conference in september, of deliberate disinformation. conference in september, of deliberate disinformationm conference in september, of deliberate disinformation. it is the job of the un to ensure the co—ordinates are right. job of the un to ensure the co-ordinates are right. and they're not doing it. they are not doing it stop you must wonder why you co—operate but i take your point about a accountability years down the line. a powerful explanation of your understandable scepticism about the war and the risk to medics is

surely demonstrated by the fact you built a hospital in a cave. tell me about that. in 2016, we built a hospital and it was built from the ground up in a cave. it is a great hospital. i just visited ground up in a cave. it is a great hospital. ijust visited it. it is state—of—the—art. we still have some equipments we really want to build but we are extremely out of this hospital, it is the jewel of our work over the last few years, but u nfortu nately we had work over the last few years, but unfortunately we had to evacuate that hospital and a very busy maternity hospital there because of the risk of being targeted and because of the rest of the military action getting very close to the hospital. we're hoping now after the ceasefire that we're going to be able to go back to the hospital, this was evacuated about three weeks ago. so even the cave doesn't give you the ultimate protection. do you think, when you talk about deliberate targeting, this is an effort to accelerate the end of the

war? to say, everything is up for grabs, we willjust bombard wherever we can, and eventually that will cause the rebels to give up and we can bring this lead to an end, rather than a deliberate attempt to kill medics. i don't think so, everything there is a deliberate attempt to. if you follow the regime media, after they take over a town, and you look at the hospitals, they actually have no problem indicating that this is a legitimate target because they label it as a field hospital. a field hospital is still a target, a legitimate target, which isa a target, a legitimate target, which is a total misunderstanding to the issue of human rights and a total disregard to the laws of war. (crosstalk) but this goes to the heart of the problem in this area, that the international community

seems to have vanished from the stage, you have one, two powers, russia and turkey who seem to be determining this conflict on either side, but even so, they are able to meet together and negotiate this ceasefire. america, france, britain, the others, are absent stopping what has happened? others, are absent stopping what has happened ? you others, are absent stopping what has happened? you must, in your work, visit these countries, lobby them, try to persuade them how serious is. a care about syria, being from syria, but my main goal is to detect civilians. so, my whole advocacy is full detecting civilians. please, find a way to protect civilians. i am not asking you to remove anybody, just protect civilians. and what is very frustrating to me, and many of us, in the humanitarian field is, we

all vowed that this shall not happen again, after the holocaust, after rwanda, and given this different circumstances, then information wasn't getting to the population, and here all it takes is a few things on your iphone and you see! it isa things on your iphone and you see! it is a different opportunity for people to know exactly, there are no excuses, are there? it is a failure of morality of everybody. what do americans say? let's leave aside the politicians. you do a lot of fundraising in america. does the average american know or care? we get a lot of our support from the american government. as a matter of fa ct, american government. as a matter of fact, the state department after us aid, are our main supporters stopping the people in the state department are career diplomats. they know syria very well. they

understand syria better than many of us. but, they also face frustration, too, because a lot of times, their hands are tied. it depends on the internal politics, international politics. trump dismissed what was happening in syria as a country of sand and dust. very unfortunate statement. very, very unfortunate statement, but i'm not going to try to comment on what trump said, but that was very hurtful, from any point of use. for syria, and also as a humanitarian you can't dismiss killing and the suffering of people and syria as death and sand. foremost state department official frederick hoff who advised president 0bama on syria, said to make it

clear that they would not be attacked by the us no matter what they did to civilians, has allowed them to abandon all caution. some say this is a bright green light to do what they wish. do you think whatever the intention, that has been consequence of the decision not to get involved ? been consequence of the decision not to get involved? i'm sure internal politics has a lot to play with president trump's decision not to intervene, but to me the biggest culprit was 0bama. why? because i think 0bama had a chance to protect civilians, and certain people long time ago, and i think if they had taken minor action, we would not have been here. and i am not talking about changing regime or anything, i am just talking about protecting civilians, and enforcing, you know, the redline that has been drawn in

the redline that has been drawn in the sand, and basically having just a positive intervention into preventing civilian death. but you know as well as i do how sick americans have become of a rock. how frustrated they were that a number of us troops that were injured and killed in a war that they could not see serves any function anymore. it would be very hard to convince people stopping (crosstalk) as i've a lwa ys people stopping (crosstalk) as i've always said, 0bama's achilles heel at that point was the iraq war, but on the other hand, you know, he should have listened to his advisers. the people that are on the ground and the people who know syria, he went against the advice of his advisers. i want to ask you a bit about the future. at some point, this war will come to an end. it could end horribly and idlib, because you see this huge population thatis

because you see this huge population that is being displaced, suddenly you have got an area that should have a million people has between three and a million, people are sleeping under trees, sleeping on the ground. they have survived this harsh winter, those who were lucky enough to survive but many perished in the cold. children, we know, died in the cold. children, we know, died in the cold. children, we know, died in the cold. but they could be looking ahead to what the un has described as potentially the biggest humanitarian disaster of the 21st—century. it could be a bloodbath. what can we do to avoid that. it is already the biggest humanitarian catastrophe of the century. more than half a million people dead, over 13 million people displaced, inside and outside syria, we see that unfolding every day. i don't know what is going to happen in syria. a lot of people ask me, but all ikea about his, i want the killing to stop. i want civilians to be able to go back to their homes

and kids to be able to go back to school, and everybody to be able to live, to take a breather, the simple rate of living need to be restored to as many of the syrian people right now. you were born and idlib, it is your home, what is different this time? it is a totally different place. i see a lot of misery, sadness, a lot of total chaos, but, on the other hand, i was very inspired to be there, i was very happy to be there for many, many reasons and one of them was that i get to meet the people who are working day and night there, who are risking their lives to save others, and to see their determination. not only that, but it was very neutral because they were very happy to see me, they said here is someone from chicago coming to see us. we thought

the world had forgot totally about us, and actually this is a main message that they have from people and syria. does the world know what's happening here? how can they know and not take any action? and then, to see all of the hard work paid off, and attach the incubators and the babies that we have been working so hard on to collect, that was very working so hard on to collect, that was very inspiring. don't you feel then, you are very honest in saying that president 0bama missed an opportunity. you are very honest in saying that the current administration has not got this right. you are very honest in saying that the russians are deliberately targeting bottles and bombing them. where is your anger against resident aside? i am not denying it, but as a humanitarian organisation, i want is to focus on the humanitarian work.

there is different frustration on different levels, and number one is that people are committing crimes, whether it is assad, or is in russia, or is it hezbollah, or the militias, all of them, i am really, really mad at all of that. but my biggest frustration that the whole world's failure stopping the failure of morality and the failure of the leaders of the world to be able to stand up for the people in syria, and not only syria, because if it has happened today in syria, i can assure you that it is going to happen somewhere else down the line because we never learn our lesson. if the leaders of the world failed in recognising this fact, that this isa in recognising this fact, that this is a moral obligation to help the civilians, the defenceless, this is

extremely worrisome, and makes me extremely worrisome, and makes me extremely mad, because it seems like, ican extremely mad, because it seems like, i can assure you it is going to happen again and again. mufaddal hamadeh, thank you very much. pleasure to be here. hello there. on tuesday we had a temperature of 16.5 degrees at kew gardens and in cambridgeshire, making it the warmest day of the year so far. for some southern parts of the uk, the air originated all the way from the azores, hence that bit of warmth. further north, the air is cooler and it's the cooler air that will win out over the next few days. these shower clusters are heading into the north—west of the uk.

this band of cloud, all that's left of the earlier rain taking some patchy rain and drizzle southwards into the english channel but keeping temperatures up across southern england and wales. colder air further north, though, and lots of showers packing into scotland and northern ireland. and here we'll have showers or longer spells of rain on wednesday. some heavy bursts of rain and snow of the hills of scotland. some of those hours will be blown into northern england and wales. towards the south—east of the uk, they get away with a dry day. it will be quite blustery out there, mind you, especially in those heavy showers and across the north—west of scotland, gusts of 50, maybe even 60 miles an hour. here, the air is a little bit cooler, but there's still warmth to be found across eastern parts of england, temperatures not far of what we saw on tuesday, 1a—15 degrees. but it will get colder, i think, later on in the week. and we've got this weather front taking some wetter weather into england and wales

on wednesday night. and it's behind that the area gets quite a bit colder and we see the snow level lowering on wednesday night in scotland and northern england. some icy conditions here as there could be in northern ireland as well. but the snow levels will rise, i think, on thursday. but we'lljust keep wetter weather piling into scotland and northern ireland, the winds strengthening as well and will blow some rain into the north—west of england. a few passing showers across southern parts of england and wales, they may get away with a dry day in the midlands. temperatures back to near where they should be for this time of year as they cooler air arrives. that area of low pressure keeps wetter weather going across the northern half of the uk during thursday evening, that pushes away and we get a ridge of high pressure in time for friday morning. so, it's a chilly start, yes, the winds will have eased and most places will start dry and sunny. it won't be too long, though, before the cloud bubbles up and spreads throughout the day. and those temperatures are still quite healthy for this time of year, 8—12 degrees. that rain will push its way eastwards on friday night,

we'll see more rain arriving in the north—west of the uk on saturday. that then sweeps its down way into england and wales and cooler air follows into the north—west on sunday with some sunshine and some blustery showers.

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