president emmanuel macron says france is in a state of war against the coronavirus, and has introduced further restrictions to try to curb its spread. he's forbidden people from leaving home, except for essential reasons, from midday on tuesday, orface punishment. the us treasury secretary, steve mnuchin, is seeking a large stimulus package to prop up the american economy after the dowjones suffered its biggest ever one—day points drop. economists now no longer doubt that the global economy is heading into recession. in britain, prime minister boris johnson called on people to stop travel and avoid what he called "unnecessary" social contact. he said if drastic action was not taken now, cases could double every five or six days. he said people showing any symptoms should self—isolate for fourteen days.

now it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. coronavirus is first and foremost a global health crisis, but its impacts go so much further. the economic damage is deep and worldwide, political systems face profound challenges too. ireland is a telling case study. last month's election left the country without a stable government. eoin 0 broin is a leading figure in sinn fein, the party that won the most votes, but failed to form a government. does political uncertainty now make ireland especially vulnerable?

eoin 0 broin in dublin, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much, stephen. you hope that by now your party would be forming a government, would be the government in ireland but it has not worked out that way so but it has not worked out that way so you have to respond to what the, in essence, the caretaker government led by leo varadkar is doing. he has initiated a host of emergency measures to respond to coronavirus, do you support him? a number of weeks ago we propose that there should be a strong cross approach and he accepted that and regular meetings were taking place today

tween the tea shock and others to ensure that whatever formation we ta ke we ensure that whatever formation we take we have a strong cross—party view on this to ensure that everything that needs to be done both to reduce at which the virus is spreading but to also ensure that oui’ spreading but to also ensure that ourfamilies spreading but to also ensure that our families and businesses get the support they need in coming days and weeks. the extent of the emergency measures that include schools closed and now bars and pubs all being closed, a semi— lockdown of the country, what it means is that at the very most generous estimate at least 140,000 irish people are no longer able to go to work. that is extraordinarily damaging to your economy and yet, if we are honest, you have fewer than 200 cases of coronavirus. some may feel it is an overreaction in your country. coronavirus. some may feel it is an overreaction in your countryli coronavirus. some may feel it is an overreaction in your country. i have to say i have not heard anyone say it is an overreaction stop the

crucial thing is that this is a global pandemic and we must take advice from global leaders particularly the world health organization. they say speed is of the essence. they say speed is of the essence. the quicker we reduce the rate this disease spreads the better able you are to get a grip on it. crucially, ensure your health services are not overwhelmed and i must say the type of action we have seen the irish government take last week and, again, important measures to support those who've lost theirjobs and businesses in must close and other aspects of the economy, i think it isa aspects of the economy, i think it is a sensible and prudent thing to do andi is a sensible and prudent thing to do and i think because of that approach we should see a far slower rate of infection and, crucially, it will save live and that is the most important thing a government should focus on in this crisis. talking about the economy now. how worried are you? your party is committed to are you? your party is committed to a major boost to public spending and yet what we now see as an irish economy that will suffer a major

knockback as a result of all the responses to coronavirus. it calls into question everything about ireland's economy and your economic policies going forward. firstly, all economies, notjust policies going forward. firstly, all economies, not just the policies going forward. firstly, all economies, notjust the irish but the uk will be affected by this pandemic and we all have to respond appropriately. what i will say is that if we are to have learned any lessons of the last recession it is precisely at a moment of economic uncertainty that the government needs to step up to the plate and invest and support the economy and public services. we need to take a strong cross—party approach to tackling the pandemic, as i said, but we also must be involved in negotiations around a programme for a government for change that would allow us to improve the quality of our house care and the housing crisis and ensure that small and medium—sized businesses have the support they need. now is the time to give them that support and if we approach this in the right way not only will we be able to negate the

worst aspects of the virus ensure our economy in the future is stronger and more robust and people have a better quality of life and public service. i will get back to your agenda for governance and discuss with you whether it will ever be relevant let's stick right now to the coronavirus crisis a little longer. you tell me and you have told me twice already in this interview, that you are actively engaged in national discussion with leo varadkar and his team on the response but i am puzzled because leo varadkar and all of his party and the other main historical dominant party in ireland, this is fine gael and fianna fail, they have both said they will not talk to you about anything political because they do not regard you as part of irish politics mainstream. firstly, as you and i are talking in this interview, a meeting is taking place in one of the loadings, varadkar is

added, mcdonald is added as well as the leader of the other major party, and they are working their way through the government's response to the coronavirus. those talks are happening and we are a central part of them. we would like to see them deepened. we think the ministers should meet daily with opposition spokespeople to deal with the legislative working of this virus, we will have emergency legislation come through later this week. and also the day—to—day policy responses. those talks are happening and we are a central part of them and we are a central part of them and ata and we are a central part of them and at a time of national emergency like this, the responsible people that mixing for all leaders to do is to put party politics to one side and work together to tackle the serious health crisis. that work is going on. interesting you make a point about putting politics to one side. what do you make of the sinn fein politician in northern ireland, john 0'dowd, made a very political point the other day because he was,

as many of us have done, noting the great difference in the response in the republic of ireland from northern ireland so you cross the border and on one side, the southside you have schools closed and pubs and bars close but on northern ireland you have none of that. he said and this is a quote, the uk government is using everyone of us in northern ireland in some form of twisted medical experiment. did you approve of that language? is that what you and sinn fein in dublin also think? i would say it is almost what everyone on the island of ireland thinks. a strange case of british exceptionalism here where the entire world is following the advice of the world health 0rganization with one exception being westminster and boris johnson. in the dup take a similar response. it makes no sense to have schools on the south and west of the border of ireland closed and businesses closed and people accepting fully and forthrightly the world health 0rganization advised and just a few

steps, little in a few yards across the border, a very different situation taking place. we have teachers who cross the border, pupils across the border. 30,000 people a day across the border for all aspects of that —— their life and we need a single approach to the island of ireland to ensure we slow down the spread of the disease and ensure our vulnerable sections of society, be they older people or those with underlying medical conditions are not put at risk because of reckless behaviour. he is absolutely right. so in one breath you say let's not be political but in the next you are characterising to me the uk as a sort of health risk for an irish citizen. what i am saying is that the world health 0rganization other leading experts in this field and we should all be following their advice and it does seem to many of us on this side of the irish sea is strange that the only government on the european continent and within the european

area who is not following that advice rigorously is the uk government in westminster. let's both of us hope that the spread of coronavirus in ireland can be limited and hope for the best on that. let's now dig a little deeper into the political situation in your country right now. back in february you won the most votes in the irish collection although not quite the most seed because of the weather representation system works but you have tried and failed to form a government. is that effort of yours on the part of sinn fein to form a government led by mary lou mcdonald, is it formally and finally over? no and for those of us who have had coalitions for decades, sometimes forming a coalition can take a little longer and people in britain may appreciate we are still involved in direct negotiations with other political parties, greens, the social democrats, progressive independence left—wing and by trying

to put together what that government for change would look like. that has made it difficult with the position of both fianna fail and fine gael about not speaking to sinn fein but about not speaking to sinn fein but a week is a long time in politics andi a week is a long time in politics and i have though to make me say something this week they may say something this week they may say something else next week. our something this week they may say something else next week. 0urfocus is clear. there is a huge popular expectation after a significant electoral shift in february for a different kind of government to do policy different differently and we are focused on bringing that about. it seems that the coronavirus crisis has overtaken the political perspective because i have the feeling now that reading between the lines of what senior officials in both historical big parties, fine gael and fianna fail, what they say is that both of them are saying ireland is now facing a massive national healthcare emergency and in a context like this, we must work together, us parties, to form a grand coalition, a government of

national unity. that seems to be the way politics is going. firstly, fine gael and fianna fail combined do not have the numbers and they will have to engage with other political parties. they are already talking to the greens so they can do that. they are already talking to the greens. interestingly, the greens came out last week quite critical of the way in which they felt that fianna fail in particular was taking the green party for granted and indicated clearly that they are not that to be you —— be used. i understand the parties are meeting on wednesday this week for a meeting with the green party on fridayjust gone and the social democrats this week so we are very the social democrats this week so we are very focused in february the people of ireland voted for real change. the political parties, the

political parties that significantly increase their seats involve sinn fein, the social democrats in the green party, the republic are calling us the parties of change and we are spending a huge amount of time both this weekend into the coming weeks trying to form a government that will do exactly what the electorate asked us to do and deliver a completely different kind of economy, society, one that works for workers and families. but to be honest, it is more likely that fianna fail and fine gael will be able to achieve a grand coalition government than it is that you could cobble together an alternative government for change and in the concept of a national emergency, isn't it to just be honest, recognised that and get on with fianna fail and fine gael finding a way to govern? firstly, i did not vote for either of those parties i voted for sinn fein. but what is interesting is if you look at the results of the election, fianna fail lost significant

results of the election, fianna fail lost sig nifica nt votes results of the election, fianna fail lost significant votes and fine gael lost significant votes and fine gael lost votes in seats. they do not have a popular mandate to govern and they certainly do not have a popular mandate for change. the big issues that dominated the election campaign we re that dominated the election campaign were the failure of the outgoing government to secure adequate healthcare and childcare, the issue is that when we get to the other side of coronavirus will still be with us. so what am i doing about our negotiating team? we are trying to do what the electorate asked the to—do and form a government for change. and i say this clearly, if fianna fail and fine gael cobble together a unstable government that will not be the sort of change that the electorate called for. i also have to think and say that they would be an unstable government and the kind of proposition putting forward bias is sensible and credible and more stable and, crucially, more likely to deliver for workers and families who desperately need a break.

well, i don't think anyone would dou btless well, i don't think anyone would doubtless that uncertainty and instability are what characterise irish politics today. the question is how to get beyond that and given that you are not really backing down on your right to form a government and nobody can really see a way in which you could form a government, the uncertainty will continue. and i would therefore suggest maybe the only thing that all of you politicians and islands can do is accept the need for an urgent second election. what do you think about that? well, first of all, we don't wa nt that? well, first of all, we don't want a second election, and nor do the electorate. they have made that very, very clear to us. but let me also say this. you are overplaying the level of instability. as i said, as we are doing this interview, all of the political parties who are in government buildings working together to try to find a way to tackle the coronavirus, the business of forming a coalition takes a little bit of time. that is our experience, and in fact after the 2016 election it took 71 days. so we're ina 2016 election it took 71 days. so we're in a position where all of the political parties, with their mandates, are seeking to form a

government. what sinn fein is saying is we're going to do with the electorate has asked us to do and try and form a stable, long—term government that can deliver on the really important issues that fine gael and the other party having only not delivered on in recent years but also historically. i have never seen so much hope, so much expectation, that things can really start to change in our economy and society, and sinn fein certainly isn't going to let our voters down. we can work together on a cross—party basis to deal with the coronavirus, but separately, political parties who have a mandate for change need to step up to the plate, four coalition government and transform our economy and society in the way people expect us to do. it is interesting you talk about that appetite for change, and i don't think anybody looking at the election would tout sinn fein did reach out in a successful way to a lot of particular young people on issues that are very close to your heart like housing and getting much more affordable housing available for young irish people. i get that,

but surely it is time for you to reflect on why, in funny sort of way, you didn't do even better. because yes, you got 24.5% of the vote, but it wasn't enough to make you the natural party of government. so maybe you should actually be reflecting on what is still blocking sinn fein's path to being the true party of government in ireland, and maybe what is blocking it is still that sinn fein has a problem coming to terms with the legacy of its past and its long—term association with the ira and the men of violence in northern ireland. maybe you haven't quite dealt with that legacy properly yet. well, the only real obstacle properly yet. well, the only real o bsta cle to properly yet. well, the only real obstacle to sinn fein delivering on our mandate is that fianna fail and fine gael are scared of change. they know that if sinn fein is in government, it will be a completely different kind of government, that challenges the status quo and starts working in the interest of ordinary people. but with respect to the conflict, the last time i was on

this show was in 2001, i was a belfast city council and it was three years after the good friday agreement has been signed. we have done an enormous amount of work as a society, political parties, including sinn fein, to deal with the legacy of the past and to build a much more stable and a much more peaceful society. i played a part in that, as have sinn fein, and we have a lot more work to do. but the only way you do that work party sitting around the table and working together. in the north, for example, we are back in the power—sharing agreement with the du p and other parties and i welcome that and it seems odd that fianna fail and fine gael have criticised sinn fein for the collapse of northern institutions and are refusing to talk to sinn fein about government. iam not talk to sinn fein about government. i am not sure you are really addressing... you are not really addressing... you are not really addressing my point. my point is that you need to think very carefully about your continued association with the ira. for example, three weeks a police commissioner in ireland, drew harris, said that he agreed with the northern ireland police authorities that sinn fein was still, to a large

extent, controlled by the ira army council. that's your own irish police chief saying that. the irish public listened to that, and it raises all the old questions about who sinn fein really are. well, interestingly, the irish electorate gave their verdict on sinn fein in the last election. we got more votes. . . the last election. we got more votes... i am not doubting you did well in the election, you got 24% of the vote, but if you want to be ireland's natural party of government you've got to do better than that. and my point is that when the police chief comes out and says still sinn fein ultimately is controlled by the ira army council, you've got a political problem. so first of all, let me finish the sentence i was going to finish and then i'll get onto the second bit of your question. the irish public have given their verdict. we took more votes a nd given their verdict. we took more votes and we have an equal number of seats to the other larger party, fianna fail. the second thing is

there's been a number of opinion polls since the election, and we are up polls since the election, and we are up ten percentage points to 35%. so it is very clear that the electorate don't have a problem with sinn fein. but what i would also say is, as pa rt but what i would also say is, as part of the architecture of the good friday agreement, an independent monitoring commission was set up to look at the process of demilitarisation and particularly decommissioning, and in their last report, some years ago, they confirmed that the ira no longer exists, that it is fully designed, disbanded and is no longer engaging in conduct... that so many people, including the irish police force, don't that. well, first of all, that is the independent body that was set up is the independent body that was set up by is the independent body that was set up by the british and irish governments to mediate these matters, and i would hope that all governments and political actors agree. the particular report that you are referring to didn't actually state that the psmi believes the ira is still in operation but that an unnamed informant had reason to believe that. i don't believe that asa believe that. i don't believe that as a credible report at all. let's talk about the body set up in the

agreement, the independent monitoring commission, let's go back and read the reports. but let me tell you very clearly, i am a senior sinn fein politician, elected to parliament here, i am on the negotiating team for the formation of government talks. i know who controls our party. it is our elected representatives. it is our members and our voters and nobody else. so weighted that newly elected tds, that is mps in the irish parliament, as he celebrated victory, live the ira. all know means long live the ira. why did he do that? sure, and it was a full listing for him to do and he has since apologised for the hurt he has since apologised for the hurt he has cause. it was a late night celebration after the elections, there had been drink taken. sometimes the truth comes out when a drink has been taken. let me tell you this. as a politician of 25 yea rs' you this. as a politician of 25 years' experience, north and south, myself and all my colleagues, along

with politicians from all other parties north and south, have done everything we can to first of all bring about an end to a 30 year long armed conflict, but also to ensure that the cause of that conflict are dealt with, and we are able to work together in a peaceful and respectful way. and that's why we are in the position that we are in today, not just are in the position that we are in today, notjust sinn fein, in terms of our electoral support, north and south, also the executive in the north is up and running, the ministerial council met at the weekend with representatives of the irish government. many the executive is in place. we are in a better place because of the work that all of us have got more work to do, and all politicians, my own colleagues included, have to be very mindful of what they say publicly. but crucially, the hard work of his building continues, but also the ha rd building continues, but also the hard work of performing government to deliver on the real desire for change in the south, also continues and we are going to continue to be a pa rt and we are going to continue to be a part of that. 's final thought, then. we have painted this picture of ireland at a very crucial moment. you've got the coronavirus to deal with, as indeed to so many nations around the world, but you've also

got political uncertainty. we all agree there's a great deal of uncertainty. you've also got the added factor of exit. you're very important neighbour, the united kingdom, is supposed to be finalising the nature of its brexit trade arrangements with the eu over the next few months. that is major uncertainty for ireland. in all of that context, is it wise for you quys that context, is it wise for you guys to still push the idea that ireland, north and south, needs aboard a border poll to settle the status of northern as as soon as possible? surely it's the right time to back off from that. well, the whole point of the good friday agreement was to give all political parties on the island of ireland peaceful and democratic means to pursue their legitimate political agendas. and the possibility of a border poll is a provision within the good friday agreement. people voted for that, north and south. and yes, we would like to see a poll the next four or five years. in the current climate, you still want to push that idea, in the current climate? there are two things that

get me out of bed every morning, stephen. 0ne get me out of bed every morning, stephen. one is a socialjustice and the other is a united ireland. so that's what i do for a living. but cani that's what i do for a living. but can i also say this. i appreciate for some of you in westminster, referenda have been very acrimonious. but it is possible to have referenda in respectful and well—informed ways. we have done that for example on the march for equality and abortion reform and we could do that on the united ireland question as well. it has to be evidence—based, it has to be respectful. all sections of public opinion, north and south, have to be included. and of course, we are in a government for change on the other side of these talks, that would be a central element of it, as would universal healthcare, central element of it, as would universal healthca re, as central element of it, as would universal healthcare, as would affordable housing, as would universal public services, better wages and conditions for people, particularly those in precarious employment. they are the reasons why sinn fein is doing so well, north and south, and we're going continue focusing on that agenda in the days and weeks ahead. eoin o broin, we have to leave it there, but i think

you very much forjoining me on hardtalk, from dublin. thank you. hello. the week started on a dry, fine, sunny note for many parts of england and wales. and it really was a sparkler of a day, finishing with glorious colours in the sunset, as captured here across great yarmouth. it wasn't like that everywhere, because for scotland, for northern ireland, after a decent start to monday, so that weather front spread some cloud, some wind, some rain quite widely. now, that front drags its way a little bit further south, but you'll notice there's a kink in it. and that's going to be quite an important kink, because it thickens the cloud. after a bright enought start in northern ireland, the rain is soon in here.

quite a bit of it, as well, as you see. and it spreads across a good part of mainland scotland on into the afternoon, some of it getting across the border. further south, wee bit of brightness. the south—westerly breeze will usher in some really mild airs. and if you get a wee bit of sunshine, to the eastern side of the pennines, east anglia, down towards the south—east, 13, 14, 15 could well be yours. a more showery regime across the northern and western isles throughout the course of the day, and indeed on into the evening. once that little wave is away on the weather front, that will allow it to relax its way ever further south. slow progress, it has to be said, because it's running into an area of high pressure across biscay and the near continent. so it's around and about on wednesday across wales, southern counties of england, the midlands and east anglia and lincolnshire. further north, much brighter skies, but that sunshine doing nothing for your temperatures. the last of tuesday's really mild air is trapped there, particularly in the south—east, where again we could peak at around 14 or 15 degrees. now, from wednesday

on into thursday, that weather front, more a band of cloud rather than anything else at this stage for many southern counties, mayjust have enough about it for there to be a bit of rain down into this far south—western quarter. but wales, north midlands northwards, increasingly sunny as you drift that wee bit further north. but again, there's a chilly feel right across the piece. we are into single figures. a change to the day from thursday to friday, but the overall setup is very little change, other than we might see a little bit more activity on that weather front across the southern counties of england, so the chance for some rain here, and a noticeable easterly wind. so that'll make it feel fairly cool, to say the least. further north, at least you've got the benefit of the sunshine across the midlands, much of wales, scotland, northern ireland and the north of england. but again, those temperatures are in single figures. the weekend brings us the prospect of mainly dry weather, with some sunshine, feeling chilly, and there'll be some frosty nights, too.

this is the briefing, i'm sally bundock. our top stories: france bans people from leaving their homes unless it's essential, or face punishment. president macron addressed the nation with this solemn message. translation: we are at war. all government and parliamentary action must now be directed towards combating the epidemic. britain's prime minister boris johnson urges the public to stay at home as much as possible, warning the virus is spreading faster in london than anywhere else in the uk. don't go to the theatre, cinema or pub, the message. but how will businesses cope without their customers?