hello, and welcome to the programme which brings together some of the uk's leading specialist journalists with the foreign correspondents based here who file their stories with the dateline, london. joining us from home: stefanie bolzen is uk and ireland correspondent for germany's die welt. michael goldfarb presents the frdh podcast — that's the "first rough draft of history." and, boy, what history is he reporting on now. and with me again — at a safe distance — the bbc‘s chief international cvorrespondent, lyse doucet. grounded she may be by covid—19, but her curiosity about the world remains undiminished. we will begin here in the uk. it's week two of the "great stay at home," and the statistics suggest it's working — dramatic falls injourneys on public transport, little activity at airports, quieter roads. this, though, is the calm before the storm. because of the time lag between becoming infected and showing signs, those who are dying now were infected before the lockdown.

epidemologists think we're two to three weeks behind italy and spain — which has seen more than 10,000 die. in the uk, so far, coronavirus has caused under 4,000 deaths — it's only after the event we'll know whether we did enough. stefanie, what have you been telling your readers about how the uk is handling this epidemic? that being kind of a roller—coaster. i think as much emotionally for a person living in the uk and having a family here. but also from the continent, especially from germany, oui’ continent, especially from germany, our readers have been very interested in looking at how the british government manages the crisis. generally, the impression was that borisjohnson has been very slow, he was a very slow to icily tell people they had to stay at

home, you almost got the impression that he didn't want to tell people to do anything, he is not a person who likes to tell people to follow orders. but that has now risen to criticism, but actually, the british government has not taken advantage of being behind the curve and introducing very strong measures in terms of social distancing to actually stop the spread of the virus more quickly than countries such as italy and spain were able to do. michael, you are obviously podcasting and trying to get a message out to the uk, focusing around the world notjust the us, what do you need or how things have been handled so far? the first thing idid was been handled so far? the first thing i did was i avoided it because that isjust so much out i did was i avoided it because that is just so much out there that i did was i avoided it because that isjust so much out there that is no more thanjust isjust so much out there that is no more than just numbers isjust so much out there that is no more thanjust numbers are being bandied around and it is difficult to figure out where they come from,

so to figure out where they come from, sol to figure out where they come from, so i actually read william blake, springtime poetry. in other areas, so i actually read william blake, springtime poetry. in otherareas, i have been writing, and i'm very interested to know about how much... because the us and the uk have approached this crisis up to a point in the same way, initially saying, well, we are not going to lock down, well, we are not going to lock down, we will not shut down our economies, possibly because most of the victims initially were in their 805. well, some people close to bori5johnson and the president said, well, this happens. i wonder how much coordination that actually was in me55aging, even making policy up on the fly between the white house and downing street. i think that is a fruitful area for journalists downing street. i think that is a fruitful area forjournali5t5 to go

out and explore. i suppose at least a borisjohnson out and explore. i suppose at least a boris johnson is out and explore. i suppose at least a borisjohnson is listening to his doctor's advice, it does not seem donald trump is not too keen to follow the advice about wearing a face mask. how do you feel about that? i am aware that the president ai5a that? i am aware that the president a i5a law that? i am aware that the president a is a law unto himself, although he call5 a is a law unto himself, although he calls a bori5johnson briton a is a law unto himself, although he calls a boris johnson briton tom. bori5johnson i5 calls a boris johnson briton tom. bori5johnson is not like that, let'5 bori5johnson is not like that, let's be clear. he has tested positively, he is self—isolating, and numberof positively, he is self—isolating, and number of people around the cabinet table have also tested positive. donald trump and a face ma5k, positive. donald trump and a face mask, the latest news is this, there wa5 mask, the latest news is this, there was a machine invented to turn them out quickly, thi5 was a machine invented to turn them out quickly, this was done during the 0bama administration. when president trump came in, he cancelled the programme, so instead of being able to crank out hundreds

of being able to crank out hundreds of thousands of masks in a medical without too much problems, we are fiow without too much problems, we are now in the situation well that are not enough ma5k now in the situation well that are not enough mask for front line 5taff, not enough mask for front line staff, for people living in major urban areas which is where the optic i5 mace sevier. urban areas which is where the optic is mace sevier. as a journalist, we provide much is the first rough d raft provide much is the first rough draft of history, but also a 5nap5hot where we block as one part of the sentence are snapshot where we block as one part of the sentence are not the other. i was to the full donald trump quote, but he says, i'm sitting behind it was this, i'm eating kings, presidents, dictators, he actually used that word. i thought, who is visiting donald trump at this time? in these darkest of times, we do how do you have a little bit of humour. this is something that most of us who cover real war is far away, people do you find humour, i have do, stefanie and michael for their

restraint in not entering the battle of the book shelves, none to distract our reviews this morning. 0n the face mask, i heard at the chancellor of austria introducing earlier this week was a requirement for the wednesday of this week that people should have them, saying that, i know it seems strange for us to do in austria, we associated with people from the far east ant orders from china. he said, culturally, it might be difficult but we have to do this. the whole question of covering your face this. the whole question of covering yourface and this. the whole question of covering your face and the politeness of seeing another person, it's a big issue, isn't it? we have had discussions for example of people bidding the hijab in the uk, people needing to see peoples faces to see if they like them or trust them. they have been comments in france that after all these battles for people not to wear the hijab, we are fiow

people not to wear the hijab, we are now telling them to wear face max. some of the doctors have pointed out, because those who have lived in countries where there have been other pandemics, they are used to wearing these face sars and mayers. it is notjust you have to wearing these face sars and mayers. it is not just you have to wear it, you have to wear it correctly. if it is not put on correctly, it defeats the purpose, so the whole point is that you should feel comfortable wearing it, therefore, you actually protect yourselves. but for the most part, i think, protect yourselves. but for the most part, ithink, not protect yourselves. but for the most part, i think, not only are we looking... whenl part, i think, not only are we looking... when i came to work this morning, i thought, looking... when i came to work this morning, ithought, i looking... when i came to work this morning, i thought, i want one today because that's how the recommendation, almost no one else on the street was wearing one. i thought they were looking at me when i was thought they were looking at me when iwasa thought they were looking at me when i was a bit extreme, i was reminded of foreign correspondence with their fla k of foreign correspondence with their flak jackets when no of foreign correspondence with their flakjackets when no one else is wearing them but we have to do. the

thing with face mask, everyone is looking over their board are like when neighbours look over there washing line at the fence next door. people are asking, how come germany has all these test? canadians are saying, why is donald trump preventing face mice are being made for us? the president of the european commission was saying, it is all for me. everyone is conscious of what they don't have, vis—a—vis, their neighbours both in terms of their neighbours both in terms of their street but early so in terms of countries. let's pause our discussion of coronavirus, and give some thought to other stories around the world that might otherwise have made the headlines. michael, do you want to kick off on this? the country with i think now the fourth largest outbreak of coronavirus, it may change, is iran. because over the last few years,

reporting restrictions have made it virtually impossible for western journalists to remain in tehran and, the country, and it's a very important country. we have no idea what going on. to me, that is something that is a lack, because iran sets it in a very important strategic position, i'm able to follow news from could extend via twitter. in baghdad, pilgrimage season is on, we don't know if people are sneaking in from iran to go to the pilgrimage sites. all of this is critical because, as we learned in china, when you have a dictatorial regime, you can argue whether china is a dictatorship or merely authoritarian, but the dictatorship in iran... what we need

fiow more dictatorship in iran... what we need now more than anything is cleared open sharing of bags amongst medical professionals about what is happening, and we are not getting that. i would like to see more from iran. lyse, a little further east for your story, one which has releva nce for for your story, one which has relevance for journalists around for your story, one which has relevance forjournalists around the world. yes, it froze us back to last time the world thought it was fighting a common war, that was the attacks of september 11. news came from pakistan that the high court overturned the death sentence for a british—born militant who was convicted of abducting and murdering the wall street journalist who was 58 at the time, daniel pearl. he said he could be released from jail because there was not enough evidence of him actually carry out the act, he wasjust an compliance. there was a huge outcry, including from the us state department, and

the lower court who said, fine, we are we arresting them and they cannot leave. it is a reminder of the remnants of other wars. there has been an accusation from georgetown university that actually, 0marsheikh was georgetown university that actually, 0mar sheikh was involved in a vault in aid but actually didn't know that daniel pearl himself. and the real guy who did it is languishing in guantanamo bay. a complicated tale but a guantanamo bay. a complicated tale buta reminder guantanamo bay. a complicated tale but a reminder that these wars have a very long tail and the suffering and pain connected to them. daniel pa re nt and pain connected to them. daniel parent was trying to find some of the people involved in at the attacks of 9/11 in a pakistan and he paid a terrible price, it was a horrible story at the time and still is. stefanie, your interest in europe, there was one particular eu

country you wanted to mention?” europe, there was one particular eu country you wanted to mention? i am maybe staying a bit closer to home, it isa maybe staying a bit closer to home, it is a story that has been reported in the uk and europe but i think it's an interesting story on a wider scale. 0n it's an interesting story on a wider scale. on monday this week, the hungarian parliament with a two thirds majority allowed victor albarn from now on to rule by decree, this without any time limit. this is something we have seen, especially in hungary, but also in poland— that these countries relating to undermine the constitutional checks and balances of their countries, whether it be on the freedom of the press, also the independence of the judiciary. we can really see that some government now use the crisis to just, simply for power grabs. 0n now use the crisis to just, simply for power grabs. on one hand, the question evolves from how well

parliament, and therefore democracy, after the crisis get into the place it should be? on a wider scale, the question of civil liberties. if i look at germany, my own country, it is quite famous for data protection. because of our history, people are very wary of any intrusion of their privacy and private lives, of course because of the maxi story and the secret police, the stasi. it is seen asa secret police, the stasi. it is seen as a very good means at to track people with smartphones, where they we re people with smartphones, where they were going, how they are moving. and once this is over, do we go back to civil liberties and the protection of the private person as we were before coronavirus? as is religious and political scientist said after the attacks of september 11, they reminded us that it is often at the event itself that has the longest repercussions, it is our response to

the event that could actually prove to be more catastrophic. we saw what happened after the september 11 attacks, two major international invasions, decline of civil liberties around the world. as stefanie mason, the human rights chief of the un yesterday spoke out about this and warned about the surveillance, which is quite effective in some countries, the tracing that south korea has used is quite effective. but some readers could take advantage of the situation as stefanie has been talking about in hungary to take all powers, a law unto themselves, at this time because they can say, anything justifies it because i'm saving lives. as the pandemic ravages parts of europe, an old dispute has been revived under a new label. member states are debating corona bonds, a way of sharing ther cost around the eu to help the member countries whose economies are most affected. but as in the eurozone crisis, they're in the south,

and countries like germany and the netherlands — prudent with their money — have already rejected a call from france, italy, spain, ireland and five other countries for a common debt instrument. one of the world's oldest unions is feeling the economic strain — 10 million people are nowjobless in the united states of america. michael, how is the us keeping with that prospect? i don't think anyone can begin to have a policy for that. when the economy... i5 being shut down piecemeal, remember that the federal response from the white house, two weeks ago, they were saying that we will be in a church for easter. now finally at the penny has dropped and they are acknowledging that this will go on for quite some time. the us are shutting down new york city, now the epicentre of the global pandemic, effectively shut down. there was going to be a moment increased on

unemployment, 3.3 million people fight unemployment claims last week. 6.6 million people in the weekjust finish, that is 6.6 million people in the weekjust finish, that i510 million people. to me, it seems to me that this is a moral equivalent of the 1929 stock market crash. the stock market crash did not immediately crores the depression. severalyears did not immediately crores the depression. several years went by while the big ripples went throughout the economy, ultimately, with mass unemployment and banks collapsing. i think when you look at 10 million people filing for unemployment ina 10 million people filing for unemployment in a month where we we re unemployment in a month where we were all astonished when republican administration and a republican senate voted to give every american aduu senate voted to give every american adult $1200 for a month. now that is

not going to be nearly enough. once you start taking awayjobs in this number, no one knows how many comes back, nobody knows at what level pay will be when you go back to work. and because it could be months yet before the economy as functioning, you are looking at a mass unemployment event with no way for the government to help because everybody is going to be two to stay at home. it is a impossible situation, and a very dangerous one. stefanie, this kind of tension in europe, how serious is it? you could argue it is quite hard to blame the southern european countries because everybody is being affected by coronavirus, it just happens everybody is being affected by coronavirus, itjust happens that their economies as we go to start with, wish you could argue as a failure of the euro system anyway? it feels familiar, but the feeling is that it will be much worse than 8

euros zone crisis which started in 2009 and was never really solved. apart from the financial question now, i thought, apart from the financial question now, ithought, at least apart from the financial question now, i thought, at least at the very beginning of the crisis, europe was kind of on over the place. you saw country shutting down the borders, which they can't of course, because ifa which they can't of course, because if a nation says that there is a threat to public safety and public health they can close their borders. beasts. —— they can. poorly done that and because that option with trans— that and because that option with tra ns— european traffic. that and because that option with trans— european traffic. germany decided for some days to put controls on the export of protective clothing, which was of course seen asa clothing, which was of course seen as a very selfish decision. this has now come down... for the european commission to be fair, it is very difficult to interfere there because things like health and borders our

national sovereignty is. many brexiteers are saying... of course, it is seen now that the dialogue is even more difficult. the council meeting last week was a video counsel. next tuesday is the finance ministers council, also done via video link. it is going to be interesting what is going to come out of that meeting. all i'm hearing from brussels is that they will postpone a decision, and a countries like germany will agut that actually there billions of euro help by the european central bank, by the european central bank, by the european investment bank. the commissionjust european investment bank. the commission just announced a 100 billion package for workers who have lost theirjobs. i don't think there will be much of a difference to what we have seen in the euro zone crisis. if i could just add in, we have seen in the euro zone crisis. ifi couldjust add in, one of the interesting things about this crisis is that it has shown that

many of the better in politicians around europe, and indeed, around the world, have been overtaking idea logically. in the netherlands, for example, which has had the loudest voice in countering this idea of corona. . . voice in countering this idea of corona... the prime ministerand '5 coalition is under pressure, two of the parties have joined him in forming the government, are more inclined to show fraternity and solidarity with italy, spain and france. i think there will be a lot of pressure, and i would be interested to see what kind of pressure at the current ruling coalition in germany might come undone. in the end, the economy is so thoroughly intermingled, particularly on the continent, that you say, well, we are not going to help corona bonds, we are not going

to help italy or spain. they could have an incredible knock—on effect on the northern countries. i think as the weeks go by, politicians are going to come under more pressure and clean off then perhaps they are at the moment. they might, it is interesting the example that michael gave, the comparison with the 1929 stock market crash, i suppose for any politician now, your reputation could be destroyed by how you don't a nswer could be destroyed by how you don't answer these challenges. president hoover, a man who helped to feed the starving masses after the first world war, a man who had quite a lot of good things in his political past, his reputation was destroyed by other things. the shanties set out for people withoutjobs and starving, and fdr came up with his message of hope. there are political opportunities but also a huge risk for leaders around the world how they tackle this challenge. this is

they tackle this challenge. this is the kind of crisis were generally use phrases like defining moments. this defines citizens, states, the relationship between the citizen and the state. it brings it right down to the basic. people are elected or are in powerto to the basic. people are elected or are in power to protect their people, and now that we don't need protection. this will sit long in the memory. even in china. china has not been able to suppress the voices there, and that is a country which has huge control over means of communication. people are saying, you are not telling us the truth, you are not telling us the truth, you are not protecting us. as stefanie says, there was an impression that britain was slow, people said, what does that mean in terms of lies? individuals are asking, didl terms of lies? individuals are asking, did i lose my grandfather because we were not quick enough? did i lose my mother who was a nurse because she didn't have the protective equipment? the heartbreaking story we have had in

their24 heartbreaking story we have had in their 24 hours heartbreaking story we have had in their24 hours in heartbreaking story we have had in their 24 hours in britain were that to your young nurses, their 24 hours in britain were that to youryoung nurses, in their 24 hours in britain were that to your young nurses, in the 305, both with three young children, they died because they did not have enough protective equipment. people, neighbourhoods, societies, countries — they will remember what their government did not do or did do at this hour of need. let me ask for a final thought you would like to leave us with at this time. nine mike, you had a thought about the future of government? to use another phrase, there are also walls within walls. we are already hearing about the battle of narratives. people still remember to this day who came to us in our hour of need in the first world war, the second world war, who fought against those, who took too long to came to our aid. we

have ceremonies and monuments to rememberwho have ceremonies and monuments to remember who the shoulder to shoulder with us. this is being discussed, we are focusing on europe. apparently in italy, 60% of italians said not enough aid was coming from europe and saying that the chinese and russian rings are helping us. factually, that is not the case. judith did do more for italy, but people believe that the chinese did mourn. one day at this will be over, people will remember the heroes. the heroes on the street, the heroes in the country, but also be heroes who stood by each other. which is why dating they are and we are hearing from the un and other world organisations, let's work together so that at the end of the day we can say that we all did whatever we could to keep all of us say. stefanie, a brief last word from you. i was very moved yesterday

by the verse, the head of the royal couege by the verse, the head of the royal college of nurses, who spoke at the government press conference, talking about these two nurses that nine mike just about these two nurses that nine mikejust mention, two about these two nurses that nine mike just mention, two young women, three young children, and they died to save patients. they were pleading, please stay in. this weekend, that is going to be such a nice weather, you have kids to pacfiy— nice weather, you have kids to pacify— but please, everybody has to stay indoors. michael? just to say to people viewing, you read your papers were properjournalistic scepticism is. the projections about what will happen next, how many numbers, how many less. we simply can't know. the data collection on this disease have been very, very poor suit learn to read the numbers, it will help you with your anxiety. learn to read them with some

scepticism. hard facts, 5000 mask for nhs workers, you can take that to the bank. someone said you can have 200,000 deaths, that is a meaningless extrapolation— ignore it. thank you all are very much for joining us on the programme. my thought before going — this virus is infectious, but a smile is much more so. from dateline london, until the same time next week — goodbye. hello there. the weather across the uk is pretty quiet at the moment, we have been encouraging our weather watchers to send in shots from their windows to show just what is happening outside. you can see blue sky and sunshine across north tyneside,

a beautiful morning here. not looking too bad in midlothian as well. there are one or two showers in scotland and northern ireland today, but for many, we are still under the influence of high pressure, it is drifting off into the near continent, a southerly wind is starting to develop, particularly on sunday. a noticeable strong, southerly wind which will drive some milder air across the uk, and that means temperatures are likely to peak above the average. for the rest of saturday, it is a case of sunny spells across much of england and wales, thicker cloud across parts of scotland and northern ireland, maybe the odd isolated shower. but even here, we will see some breaks in the cloud and it's some sunshine coming through. not quite as warm, 9 to 11 degrees in the north, highest values further south of 16. that southerly breeze will continue to drive further north, overnight that will clear the cloud away, we will keep some clearer skies but temperatures holding up

at around 4 to 7 degrees. we start off sunday with some sunshine pretty much from the word go. the only exception, with an area of low pressure starting to nudge in from the west, we will see the winds strengthening here and the cloud increasing, with some showery rain for northern ireland and scotland. gusts of wind here in excess of 40 mph. it is going to be a blustery affair elsewhere, but still with that wind direction coming from the south, temperatures are likely to respond by sunday afternoon, we are going to see widespread mid to high teens, maybe up as high as 20 degrees in the south—east. that does mean however that the pollen count will be pretty high in some places, moderate to low elsewhere. as we move out of sunday into monday, we are going to see that low pressure starting to influence the story, and this cold weather front will bring some outbreaks of rain, not particularly heavy but it will bring a change of wind direction. we will see some rain for a time on monday and a slightly fresher

feel before sunshine and warmth set to return through the middle part of the week.

this is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. with good weather expected both here in the uk and europe, police are urging people to stick to the strict lockdown restrictions to tackle coronavirus. in the uk, police say they will only use their authority if they have to. when we come to enforcement, that really is the last resort because, in a way, if we come to enforcement, then everybody has failed to understand the significance of this endeavour. the authorities in france say they will crack down on any holiday—makers attempting to travel this weekend. spain reports another 809 deaths to coronavirus, but it is the lowest figure for a week and the second day in a row that the daily death toll has fallen. in the midst of the outbreak,

sir keir starmer is elected