i'm very sorry if people feel there have been failings. at the same time, we are in an unprecedented global health pandemic right now. the number of people who have died with coronavirus in the uk has gone up with coronavirus in the uk has gone up by with coronavirus in the uk has gone up by 917 since yesterday. for the first time the queen has recorded an easter message which she offers hope and says that coronavirus will not ove 1120 m e and says that coronavirus will not overcome us. and says that coronavirus will not overcome us. police and the uk's there's been a 21% drop in overall crime in the past four weeks but more than 1000 finds have been issued to people reaching social distancing rules. the united states become the first country in the world to record when the 2000 coronavirus deaths in a single day. that dental false coronavirus deaths in a single day. that dentalfalse or coronavirus deaths in a single day. that dental false or third day in the road to 510 the world health organisation tells countries to be cautious about lifting restrictions too early.

now i bbc news it's time for dateline london. hello and welcome to dateline london. i'm carrie gracie. this week — we have more than 100,000 confirmed coronavirus deaths worldwide. we're heading towards two million infections. around the globe, billions of people are trapped in physical lockdown with the imf warning that the impact on the world economy could be as bad as the great depression of the 1930s. a mere three months since covid 19 flickered into our field of vision, it has already brought human suffering on a scale that is impossible to measure. my guests today? on socially

distanced screens. catherine pepinster, british commentator on religion and politics. and american writer and broadcaster jeffrey kofman. and here in the studio observing the two metre rule, the bbc‘s chief international correspondent lyse doucet. because you're right on religion, it is easter weekend, i am a non—christian and i think a lot of audience will be and i wondered if you think the instant easter message of suffering and resurrection and redemption has an anyway something to resonate from those of us who are non—christians. for the world's christians, it is easter weekend. do do my guests feel the ancient easter story of suffering followed by resurrection and redemption? offers non—christians anything this weekend 7 i hope it does have resonance

for people without christian faith because it is a study of suffering and coming out the other end of it. i was thinking about the time between the good friday when the crucifixion and then the resurrection and the apostles, the followers ofjesus, where ni state of distress and grief, despair, they did not know what would come next but they did come out the other end with renewed hope. and i think we can think of that that this will not last forever and that we will get through it. this time will pass and there will be another time to come. it is rather like the seasons, it is very appropriate for us in this part of the world in europe to have easter at this time because it follows the pattern of spring after winter and i think many people take comfort from that as well.

the christian story is one about leadership, spiritual leadership but the current crisis is testing leaders of all types and organisations of all types whether political, religious or whatever. do you think anyone is measuring up and if so who? there are very distinct lines between success and failure and uncertain outcome. if you look particularly in asia and south korea, taiwan and hong kong have done exemplary jobs. i would note that south korea have put all its emphasis into testing, something we are very much lacking here in the uk. looking elsewhere, germany testing hard, devoting huge amounts of academic resource to testing and getting ahead of this. canada which was the only non—asian country to suffer from sars in 2003 has a pandemic policy and a strong government.

i think what you are seeing is sadly an epidemic logical global study of how different responses have different outcomes and we will know for better and worse and a couple of years which ones succeed and which ones fail. the bbc chief international corresponded, you crisscross the world looking at different responses to situations, some people are drawing conclusions about which systems are working in the face of the current crisis, some in east asia saying a look at the confucian model, public spirited and emphasising solidarity and sacrifice. do you think it is too fast to jump to those conclusions? yes, especially when that there is a warning from the who of when you go down coming out of this lockdown and the many countries is as dangerous as when you go into it.

it is very early days and i think people talking about leadership, people are looking about the opinion always, angela merkel are sticking to the science and has 79% and how opinion polls and her fourth term. people are looking at citizens, the health systems, state and leadership and the fact that china and south korea both responded in different ways, you did not see in some of the south asian countries the very strict lockdown that china resorted to, you did not see the authoritarian response of china and some of the other countries but strict ones and of course a country like taiwan very close to china, not a member of the who, as soon it's what was happening in china it went into pandemic mode, close the bodice, started increasing facemasks, blot out the highly trained scientists —— close to the borders. very strong messaging, testing,

testing so it had a system in place already and what we are seeing now that when you get to as a function of where you start and how sooner you start and how well prepared you were to be able to cope and how seriously you took the very first signs that this was going to be something big injanuary. focusing on the uk, on friday we saw a very grim tally of deaths. nearly 1000. on friday the uk set a grim record with the highest daily death toll in a european country. among the dead were doctors, nurses and others on the frontline,

with many of their colleagues bitterly contesting the government's claims on personal protective equipment. and all as the prime minister the very person responsible for leading the country through the crisis?was instead fighting for his own life in intensive care. we're told borisjohnson is now on the mend. but has his government turned the corner yet? i think neither sponsor from the uk has been in many ways deeply problematic and a lot of that has to do with the way we dealt with us from the beginning. scientific advisors and much of a telling the government that the disc and much mattel in the government that the rescue had was moderate, did not stop testing sd early enough and are not prepared for mass testing. germany have a very different approach so when we have got to now, we are not in a position to do what new zealand has attempted to eliminate the virus, it is too late to do that. we have moved from containment to slowing things down and everyone is so concerned that these high

figures we are getting a show we are not even slowing things down. anecdotally i am hearing about a lot of people who become very seriously ill but they are not taken to hospital early and they get to hospital when their bodies are exhausted and put on ventilators but it is too late to help them. i am wondering f.c. need to rethink that. the nhs is not at capacity, we have been so terrified it would be overwhelmed, we need to think again about how we are approaching it and we need to stop treating care homes as if they are hospices. the situation in care homes is clearly dire and these problems that we have will increase unless the government thinks hard about how it is approaching this and they will be in trouble even fa

have got a large majority. they know will be facing in renewed labour opposition with the new leader keir starmer, that will make things tougher for them as the weeks on and they have this great tension to deal with, as all countries do about trying to ensure the economy is not destroyed whilst also trying to ensure that as many peoples lives are saved as possible and they are going to have to try and somehow take the country with them over this because the longer that the lockdown goes on i think he had it is to placate people that this is the way to go as they see their livelihoods are being destroyed. this is a problem for governments everywhere. taking us to the united states.

only a couple of weeks ago president trump was telling americans they'd be packing churches for easter. but instead many are spending easter under lockdown and the morgues are packed instead. trump says the us is through the worst. is it? i think really it is a function of how you view trump. it is a such a polarised nation, if you are a top fan you are a believer and if you are not you are qualified. sorry, we lost you for a moment, can you deliver the last sentence again. —— horrified. sorry, we lost you for a moment, can you deliver the last sentence again. viewing trump depends on where you stand political, if you are a fan you stand by him and if not you are qualified —— horrified. and he said we would have a church is open by easter which is clearly not one of...

happening. he is treating it as a real election campaign at massive human cost. leaders outside the white house have taken control, obviously the mayor and new york one of the most outspoken but has like of leadership is going to cost the us terribly just as mad mike's slowly dish has put us behind in the uk. it is potentially so hard to know what the consequence is but i think where trump is wrong is thinking his opponent isjoe biden know that bernie sanders has pulled out, his opponent and the election is a virus and how she handles it and frankly how any leader handles it is going to determine so much including their own particle future. it is interesting from president trump who was making light

of it initially who is saying he is about to take the most difficult decision of his life and that is to decide when to easily lockdown and he has said he will meet with the council business leaders next week to try to think about that. another message from the ever consistent top scientists who has become a bit of a hero worldwide when he is asked he always says about me repeat again i am repeating myself, when it comes to the difficult decision about the lockdown the via this will decide. that is the power of this virus. i am interested what you think about the war fighting language we get from the trump administration and the uk government, the battle against the via this, we will beat it, do you think this language is helpful in uniting citizens and a kind of existential struggle to reorder priorities and understand sacrifices? it is interesting that that is this a lexicon used notjust leaders, citizens use it, health workers use it. early on behalf of doctors

and nurses on at the front line. when i walked by submit is hospital and —— st mary's hospital, we are walking past a front line which is usually end afghanistan and i know the danger and is a danger distribute close to this front line. entertain like this everyone can use whatever language it as they feel they need to convey the urgency of it. it is an urgent situation which requires action by everyone but it is getting to the point where all the line which of war is being used, the battle, the soldiers, the front line but you do see some things, field hospitals, soldiers who gained experience and putting up field hospitals quickly and though at

speed and the nightingale hospital and london and even more terribly it sends a shiver as the mass graves. mass graves at this time, there is no dignity in death even and are relatively developed society. this is not a real, this is a very difficult situation but it is not a real military conflict, that is a different kind of situation and one where people ask when it will be over but people live with those one for their entire lifetime, for generations. jeff and i have covered some wars together, it is different, they are both very dangerous and unnerving and create a lot of fear but they are different. going back to the united states and the uk and particularly the united states on inequality because another thing going back to the united states and the uk and particularly

the united states on inequality because another thing about the luggage at the moment as people talk about this virus being indiscriminate, the prime minister laid low, power and privilege no protection but it does not kill indiscriminately and we have seen over the past week figures from different states in the us making clear that it is killing african—america ns disproportionately and thus drawing attention to the social and economic inequalities that underpin life and death in the us. absolutely and i think it is highlighting the inequality of this nation that always presents itself as one of the great developed nations but its health care has been a problem for an incredibly long time. there are many people who cannot afford to be sick,

who cannot afford not to work and the problem in america is apparent in that it is affecting certain places of great poverty more than others. louisiana, a state i know, has a terrible problem in new orleans, the rate of death as very high. one of the problems america has as a lobby think of it as having an equitable advanced medical establishment with great doctors doing innovative things, actually health care their as a very poor and terms of resources. i was reading only this morning that in the united states the only have 2.9 hospital beds for every 1000 people prepared to jet many that has 8.3. the united states only has 2.6 doctors per 1000 people compared

to russia which has double that. you can see here how these basic necessities of health care are affecting the way in which a medical response to this crisis. —— there we are medical response to this crisis. —— the way america responds to this crisis. do you think president trump is also fighting a sense that it is to be a reckoning on these inequalities? i spent the last 40 years speaking to nations put down the concept of government being a necessary evil but less is better and we have watched passively as globalisation has taken hold around the world. now both ad in question.

we'd government and the countries without good governance are suffering most, without a strong bureaucratic state are suffering the most and the global supply chain has been exposed to be a fraud, it does not meet the needs of a crisis. we cannot get ventilators and masks and other personal protective equipment to the nations that need it because many of them no longer supply it and the countries that do are holding it back. this is not about returning to normal as i think one piece of graffiti in hong kong said, we cannot back to normal, normal was the problem. let's pause discussion of the virus for a couple of minutes and talk about news that is getting neglected. i want each of you to highlight a story that would be preoccupying us today if the coronavirus crisis wasn't sweeping the world.

one study i did some work on this week that might been the top story of the day was when saudi arabia fighting for the last five years and yemen announced a two—week ceasefire, unilateral ceasefire that could be extended which is an extraordinary turn in this conflict. yemen is sadly, we talk about before the coronavirus, before the scoble pandemic it was regularly cold and as the worlds worst humanitarian crisis, more than 100,000 dead. we do not know whether this ceasefire will hold, whether it will be the supplicating by them. they're not covered violations but the saudi leadership said it was in response to the call for a covered cannot have either ceasefire but saudi arabia has been tried to get out,

they are trying to take a difficult and costly issue of the table for it. geoffrey. brexit. can you hear me? we would be consumed by brexit talk now and i think, putting ads on the table i thought brexit was a terrible idea and the idea that mike... we are losing you. hold that thought. we will try and improve the line, i will come back to you. i hope you can hear me, a study that got very little traction this week but i think in another time would have caused big headlines was the sensational

acquittal of the cardinal who was jailed for the sexual abuse of children, jailed in 2018 for six years and on tuesday the high court in australia quashed the verdict and he was set free. a full bench of seven judges ruled unanimously that the unit original trial had not really considered the possibility that what had been alleged had not happened. pell had been accused of the abuse of two boys and the 1990s, he was before his arrest and charge investigating the finances of the vatican and he was very much opposed. he was supported by the pope who wanted him to do it but he was looking at the murky world of vatican finance

and was stopped in his tracks because of this case. to have him freed mix and one wondered if he will go back to looking at those murky finances on not. i think that would have delivered some headlines. fascinating stories, jeff we have you back, we had you wanted that we would be obsessed with brexit. the perils of what broadcasting. there is no question, the december deadline is looming, no resources available to negotiate, borisjohnson said this was not going to move. it seems impossible to make it, he will have to back down but we also need to look at the cost to brexit. the european medicine agency was based here in london, had moved to amsterdam, entered responsible

for finding medicines and approving them quickly. when a vaccine or some sort of medicine is found produced a new look the uk will not longer have first access along with europeans. the consequences of brexit may look very different than they did six months ago and boris johnson and has reinvented state is going to have to assess this and figured out how to navigate it but we're not talking about that now. back to our main theme — all over the world people with precarious incomes and small living spaces are suffering more economically and socially from the lockdowns in place. we know from history that our response to a huge shock can be more catastrophic than the shock itself, the cure worse than disease. gives you courage or simply gives you a smile? cath is already smiling, maybe it is an easter smile.

we have all been touched by the light we see in this dark and i always see even in the darkest of places, and the rest of was that is always in the light you see and people have to find ways to carry on with hope and humour. i was lost into the today programme, musicians on a street so each other when they came out to clap and realise they couldn't do something together so they put a hole between their fence and i'm doing music together. people are coming together in the new ways and to use the phrase that when this is over because one day it will be, it will not be back to normal because we have all been profoundly changed and may be some good will come out of this, some light. just to pick up on that, i live and north london, we had a socially distant gathering last week that everyone sat six feet apart on the little lane, about 12 of us, all very careful, i met my neighbours for the first time. i am ashamed to say i have never met them before but this has

brought us together. that is a positive thought. an easter thoughtful parting? i am delighted that we have given the planet what people of faith would court gods creation, a breather. i have read somewhere that the air is more like alpine air, we are all doing things virtually, i hope we are back on dateline will be in the studio but that has been a lot of unnecessary travel, we can do a lot more than virtually and i think if we can learn from this ways of cutting pollution we can help the issue around us thrive. you have all brought to the clear air of clear thinking, thank you. you have all been wonderful to have virtually and here depriving me for a moment of my nonetheless

and the studio, thank you. that's it for dateline london for this week — we're back next week at the same time. goodbye. after a couple of very warm days things are slowly but surely going to turn cooler for the rest of the sequencer to turn cooler for the rest of the sequencer weekend. this evening what if you had your showers was continuing across parts of england and wales and they will face the night. left out for scotland and northern ireland, some patchy rain with that in the age particularly cold make maybe down to three or this southeast of england in two or

three degrees in northern scotland. the fog patch persists out tomorrow morning from a england and wales is first sunny spells or shall risk it was those really breaking out into the afternoon and some heavy and sundry and the northerly winds developing it so that's going to make it feel decidedly chillier. 11 degrees for aberdeen and 25 once again in london. as we go into easter monday with this north or northeast wind swooping right across the british isles is going to feel much colder, a lot of cloud in eastern areas come up much colder, a lot of cloud in eastern areas come up best of the sunshine for the rest but those temperatures down just seven to 1a degrees.

with coronavirus in the uk goes up by 917 since yesterday. it came as doctors warned of a dangerous lack of protective clothing for health workers. the home secretary was asked if she'd apologise. i'm sorry if people feel that there have been failings, i'll be very, very clear about that. but at the same time, we are in an unprecedented global health pandemic right now. out and about, over 1,000 people have been fined for flouting tonight, downing street has released more details about the prime minister's health as he recovered in hospital from coronavirus. minister's health as he recovered in hospitalfrom coronavirus. also tonight.