the show can go on, and my guest today is the much—acclaimed british succession. now, he is living in self—isolation this is bbc news. the headlines: in upstate new york, donald trump has defended his handling of the coronavirus outbreak brian cox in new york state, in the united states, which has killed 22,000 americans. welcome to hardtalk. the president says he acted at the earliest opportunity. welcome. us infection figures thank you, stephen. have begun to stabilise well, thank you for inviting us and a programme has been set out into your home so to speak via your laptop. for reopening after the shutdown. you have been living in brooklyn, now you're in a cabin in new york state. president emmanuel macron of france has announced that coronavirus lockdown is to remain in place new york state of course until may 11. is at the epicentre in a televised address, of the coronavirus epidemic he said the current measures had slowed but not beaten the virus. in the us. the lockdown has confined the french what has life been like for you? well, i haven't...because i'm to their homes since march 17. a diabetic, i haven't been engaging the number of coronavirus deaths recorded in british hospitals has passed 11,000, an increase of more than 700 in 2a hours. in anything, apart from... the government says it doesn't yet expect to relax the lockdown measures. the foreign secretary has warned the person who has been doing wonders is my wife, that the uk was not past she's been fantastic. the peak of the outbreak. she's done the shopping and done all of that, and she's very meticulous about gloves and masks and bacterial wipes. i mean, she does the whole bit. and ijust sit here kind of like some kind of sacred cow.

laughs now on bbc news, it's hardtalk. a sacred bull, i guess! a sacred bull, welcome to hardtalk. i beg your pardon, yeah! and you're laughing about it, but it is stressful, isn't it? i'm stephen sackur. oh, yeah, it's very stressful. we have our two boys with us and they're beginning to get the cabin fever. the global coronavirus pandemic has changed pretty much everything i'm not too bad. for almost everybody. it is of course a public health i'm quite reclusive. emergency, but it also is having massive economic social i spend a lot of time, you know, flitting between here and london, and cultural impacts. so i'm quite good at being reclusive, i'm quite this very building usually houses our hardtalk studio. good at doing... now, that is currently out of commission. 00:01:32,878 --> 2147483051:37:31,153 but thanks to the wonders 2147483051:37:31,153 --> 4294966103:13:29,430 of modern technology, in fact, i think my wife is blessed that i'm actually doing nothing for the first time, except with stuff like this, life's never been busier, which is the irony of it! but of course you, like everybody, looks beyond your own window and it is very striking at how the world is now watching what's happening unfold in new york city. we're talking, you know, thousands dead, 100,000 and more who've been infected. how does that impact upon you?

because you have, as you say, you've got a home in new york city, you've got homes elsewhere, you've got a home in london. does it feel like new york is really suffering right now? from what i can tell, i mean, i'm in contact with a few people, and they are fairly sequestered and fairly sensible and not, you know, not going out. in the country, it's a little more different, because in the country, there's a sort of... it seems to be a bit more relaxed. but i haven't, as i say, i'm really not, i've really...because i've got certain responsibilities, i've really decided that i really have cut myself off, and... but i know in new york... it's tough what's going on in new york. but also, there is so much kind of media hysteria, you know. it's sometimes difficult to know what is the right thing and what is the wrong thing, you know. ifind that, and especially with the american media, it's such an onslaught. in fact, i've almost...

i mean, i'm very happy to watch the bbc because it seems to be very sensible, and just — i get a little confused watching the other channels, because i think, what's going on? it's a little bit over the top if you can get my meaning. i do. and when we talk confusion, it has to be said there seems to be have some confusion in the mind of the american president, donald trump, who, for a long time, was saying that the lockdown should not last long, that americans needed and wanted to get back to work and keep the economy open. and there is this dilemma for not just him, but for all governments and leaders is to get the balance right between the lockdown and the effort to really overcome this virus, but not destroy the economy. do you think, from your vantage point in the us, that the americans have gotten it right right now? well, there's still a lot of confusion. i mean, there's a lot of stuff, you know, like, kushner isn't going down particularly well.

i was listening to an american general who was in charge...who was in charge of the katrina situation, and he believes there's a lot of kind of hanky—panky going on with who's getting contracts to do what. and so there's an element where you feel, oh, it seems to be a little bit of "you scratch my back, i'll scratch your back" going on, and i find that kind of despicable. really, i'm more concerned about the people, and i'm more concerned about the... just common sense of doing what you should do, which is not to have social contact, to maintain your discipline of staying within your boundaries, and that's the best way to deal with it. at the moment, there's a lot of headless chickens, you know? let me ask you what it is like as an actor with great experience who's lived through all sorts of different crises in a long career spanning almost six decades — what is it like to see all of the theatres in new york city dark, all of the theatres in london dark and empty,

no filming, effectively, no filming at all happening around the world on movies. your industry is in total deep freeze right now. absolutely. i mean, it's tragic, absolutely tragic. there doesn't seem to be any other way that we can avoid not closing theatres. i mean, it's an awful situation. hopefully it's not going to last, but it is something that we have to deal with for the moment. interestingly enough, i'm actually involved in — there's a lot of people doing kind of independent virtual... well, i'm actually about to do a virtual film with three female directors in the uk, and there's a couple of us, one actorfrom la, there's an actor from denmark, wonderful claes bang, there's myself, and we are doing this — a rather sweet, funny film about. ..called the agoraphobic society... ..which is quite amusing. but there's a lot impeding

on people and people, like, i keep thinking about the edinburgh fringe, you know, which is such a huge loss, a huge loss, and people like that william burdett—coutts who has so much invested up there. so, i really — my heart goes out to a lot of the theatre producers who are really, really having a tough time. one thing that is not going to happen, and many people around the world will be sad to ponder, is that succession, series three was due to going into preproduction, and that is not happening. what is going to happen to series three? we're just on hold. we will resume — as soon as it's safe to resume, we will resume, because, you know, the show is very popular and season three is there, they've got it, the guys have actually got it all written now, the guys and gals, and that's great. so it's ready to go, but of course we have to get our various people from around the globe and also how we are — what the location is, and also, interestingly enough,

is do we acknowledge covid—19 in the next series? so there's a lot of ifs and buts, but i do think we will be going on. i don't think that succession is, you know, i think succession will be happening, you know, but i think probably not until — i would have said safely august, september — i mean, yeah, july, august maybe. believe me, i'm going to come back to succession, but i want to flip the conversation a little bit and be more reflective as to you and your past, because as you say, you are now hunkered down, you are a diabetic, you're over 70, so you're in a high—risk category when it comes to coronavirus — sorry to mention it, but it's true — so this is a tough time for you, but it strikes me that in your life, you have known plenty of tough times, not least in your childhood and your youth. do you think that has well prepared you for a time like this? you know, that's a great

question, stephen. actually, i think in many ways it has, you know. i feel that the way that i've been very, very lucky in my profession because it's the one thing that my profession does not depend on is security. so we are always in a permanent state of insecurity, so...and there is nothing more insecure than our present time. so, in a way, it falls into character quite easily. where did you get your passion and drive for acting from, do you think? cos you were — many people will not know that you came from a family which suffered a lot in your childhood — your dad died of cancer when you were just eight, your mum had very serious mental illness and she couldn't really look after you, so siblings did much of that. and yet, despite leaving school early, not having good exam results, you were, it seems, absolutely determined to sort of get into acting and to make it.

where did that come from? well, it came — really, it came from my dad, you know, because i did have a blissful childhood up until i was — until my father passed away and my mother had these series of nervous breakdowns, and as a result, she had to have electric shock treatment, which was horrible. anyway, before that, i had a relatively pleasant childhood, and of course, one of the great celebrations for scots is hogmanay. so as a little boy, i was always able to stay up late and watch people sing, get drunk, my mother used to make — bake steak pie at 4:00 in the morning her dressing gown. it was a kind of a weird kind of extraordinary time. and then my dad and my sister may, they used to put me on the coal bunker, which was my first stage, which was in a window recess with curtains. and i used to perform at the age of 2.5 — i used to perform jolson songs,

i would do aljolson imitations, which would be a little politically incorrect today. so that was... and we always had a house full of people, you know, food, people coming in and out. that was when i got that sense of performance, and the thing that happened to people, you could see something light up in them and they would be very... even at that very young age, it stayed with me, and it kind of sort of marked me as far as my profession was concerned. and what is very striking is that you did come from pretty tough, poor, working class roots, and after drama school and some fits and starts, you made it, both in stage, all the way to the national theatre and in movies, all the way to hollywood, and you were a working class actor success story, and it seems to me now there are probably fewer

of those stories than there were in the 1960s and ‘70s. don't get me started, stephen. it's my pet hate. the whole business of how we educate our young in relationship to the arts and how little we care and spend on our young. when i think of the ‘60s, which was a period of an extraordinary, extraordinary social mobility, when a lad like me who had a grant — i was paid for by the scottish education authority — i went to a drama school, i even had expenses paid. i mean, i actually did quite well, and even from... and i was rewarded for trying to do something, and that wasn'tjust me, that was the climate at the time, the ‘60s was like that, and it was that period which one has seen slow, bit by bit eradicated and put to one side, you know, and i mean, i'm not going to dish anybody, you know, i mean, fare dues

to places like eton and harrow, and they've got these wonderful theatre establishment and they've spent the money and they've done it, but i do think — somebody like me, it's almost impossible now. i mean, and especially now, we're going to have to reflect the now that goes on, and the now that's going on at the moment, our people are the working class people, are the nurses, are the lorry drivers, are the carers in homes. these are the people that we now have to begin to start reflecting in a way. and, you know, that's...behoves us to do so. it is fascinating, your take on your own industry, and how it fits into wider society because it would be fair to say that you have been a lifelong socialist? i have, yes. and it's fascinating that you chose

consciously in the ‘80s and since the ‘80s to spend a lot of your time in the home of free—market capitalism and rugged individualism, the united states. why? earning a living. it is disappointing history because you look at what has happened and what was possible. i did the campaign for the labour party in 1997 and i thought we were onto something that we could really shift the paradigm once and for all and we didn't. it was also at the same time i thought, bugger it, i have to earn my living because it is the same old, same old. we can't get out of the groove. we can't break the shackles of this feudalism. now, america has problems, huge, huge, huge problems. it is very much oriented to wealth class, extremely unpleasant. i was on bill maher‘s show the other

day and talking about socialism and they still regard socialism as "reds under the beds" and you are going wait a minute, hang on — that is not what socialism is about. socialism is about suffrage and welfare, welfare for all, and i still believe in that, even though, you know, as my brother would say, i have earned a crust or two. the passion and the belief is coming through loud and clear but i am also mindful, i've just made some notes about the hollywood movies, the projects you have been involved in over the years. there was the the famous doing of hannibal lecter, the original, in manhunter, bourne identity, x—men, braveheart, all of these massive blockbuster projects which, if we're honest about it, a lot of it is about making megabucks for the big hollywood studios, so, here you are, the scottish socialist. in fairness to that, i have done as much independent films as i have done blockbuster films and the blockbuster films did allow me, the, the,

it was not huge sums of money but it did allow me to function more in the independent market and i've always felt about the independent market. i have done, i think, my list of independent films is almost as great as my studio movies. and let me ask you on the question of where the movie industry is and the culture, martin scorsese, i think at the end of last year, wrote a powerful piece about his concern that the movie business and the art form, more particularly, was being polluted by the sort of superhero comic book novel which has become such a successful formula that in his view, and i'm quoting him, "they are not really movies, they are like theme parks. they are killing creativity.

they are steadily eliminating artistic risk from this art form." do you feel the same way? i'm a little bit more temperate than he is but i do feel the same way. what i love now, what i think the key thing now is television. you look at television and you realise that television really has gone so way ahead of the cinema. the cinema has become very, very archaic in its thinking and its being and its, it is, of course it is run, towards figures, and now it has to be rethought because all of the best — as roberts burns said — all the best—laid schemes of mice and men have gone well after gly of recent times. so, i think that the cinema is very in the past. television is something else. the long form, the writing, is exceptional. 0ur writers on succession are all, in their own rights, brilliant writers. let me dig into succession a little bit with you, brian, because it has been such a worldwide hit.

for those who have not seen it, you play this ruthless, bullying media mogul, logan roy, who some people see as a sort of symbolic rupert murdoch style figure. your performances are ferocious. you say and you have said when talking about it that you actually feel some sympathy for logan roy. you say that you empathise with him. i am wondering what it is about this ruthless bully that you like? well, there is, we are seeing wonderful things at the moment, don't get me wrong. i think there are such amazing acts of courage and bravery going on, it is humbling what is happening out there but at the same time, you know, we hold the mirror up to nature. that is what we do. that is what actors do. shakespeare said it and that is what we do. the mirror up to nature shows that nature in all of its flaws and we are very much in the middle

of a kind of evolution where we have not quite evolved enough. we are quite disappointing, in many ways. the human experiment is quite disappointing because of the avarice and greed and all the stuff that goes with it and we see it every day, every time the american president opens his mouth, it isjust... let me stop you because that is such a depressing reflection. succession, i'm old enough to have enjoyed west wing for example, when it came out and there was such hoping that because the whole staff, the presidential figure in west wing was basically a good guy. but, stephen, it is not all about. it is about reflecting the time and we are in a very confused time. people like logan roy, he is a self—made man,

and this is the thing him and i have in common, he is self—made. he has power and avarice and he is a nihilist, very much a nihilist. and he cannot express, he loves his children and i asked jesse armstrong that question and i asked him, "does he love his children?" and he said "yes," he certainly loves his children but he has a funny way of expressing it. and i don't want to play the psychiatrist with you but it strikes me, you are a self—made man and logan roy is the same. you have had four kids and those kids have been brought up in a very different environment from yourself. are you saying to me that you, like logan roy, fear that your kids have been brought up in an environment where they have been made spoilt and soft? is that the experience of the modern child of a successful parent? i think that is a, there is the possibility of that. they are still in it young and forming themselves as personalities. we are here in this very enclosed environment now with my two youngest boys, my 18—year—old and 15—year—old boy

and actually they are going to extraordinary times. they are going through difficult times as kids and trying to make sense of a world that does not seem to make any sense at the moment! you know, it makes less sense now than it has ever done, so it is very hard to know what do they do — do they practice faith? do they practice meditation? do they follow some spiritual idea? how do they be who they are? how can they be who they are and be with themselves? and that is tough. we, ourjob as artists and playwrights and actors and people of the theatre and people on television is to try and reflect the world as it is. you know, we do not makejudgements. we say this is the world. it is ludicrous. i think the world is ludicrous. years ago, when i did

titus andronicus, which was a play of shakespeare's that everybody dismissed as being an impossible play and then you realise in titus andronicus all the great ideas of shakespeare's plays are in that play. and it is about the breakdown of structure. it is about rome finally imploding on itself and the horribleness that comes out of it. that was written in 1593, or ‘92, and it shows a world which is still in a state of flux and that is what the drama does. that is what we reflect. that is ourjob. a final thought then. that continues to be yourjob and i can tell from your interview that you are determined to make sure you keep going once this coronavirus is over, there is logan roy to revisit, you have done everything from titus andronicus to lear in the past, you did lyndonjohnson on broadway. are you as determined as ever to find these huge parts that say

so much about the times we live in? for example, you said during the lyndonjohnson show, which is very physically demanding, you said, "i took it on because it was a challenge and, at my age, i wanted to see if the old muscles are still working." seems like they are! they are. but there is the other side of it. ijust did this thing for the bbc in scotland, a character, you probably never saw it, but i think it was on bbc4 called bob servant, an extreme eccentric, and he comes from my home town and that is a whole different thing. it's quite comedic, funny and i'm doing this thing about "stay in the house and wash your hands" and all of that. it is a public broadcast message. that is the work. that is what we do. that is the greatjoy of what we do. the difference. we can't take sides. we have to empathise, never sympathise, empathise and show the world. this is as it is, like it or not.

brian cox, it has been a real pleasure talking to you on hardtalk. thank you very much. delighted to talk to you, stephen. like i say, i am a great admirer. i have been watching your interviews for the last three or four years and admire them enormously. well, that's a really lovely way to finish! thank you so much! i do appreciate that. hello there. we saw a big cooldown in the weather over the easter period. sunday, the hottest day of the year so far with temperatures up to 25 degrees celsius. that's more than hot enough to melt some of those chocolate easter eggs.

by monday, though, temperatures certainly dropped away significantly for many of us. top of the drops, manston in kent, with things 15 degrees celsius cooler on monday. now, temperatures will be picking up over the next few days, but that said, tuesday morning starting on a cold note for quite a few of us, with some patches of frost developing where the skies stay clear for any length of time. and that said, across parts of eastern england and also the south, there's probably going to be a bit too much in the way of breeze and/or cloud to see much in the way of frost. high pressure still in charge of our weather on tuesday. it is sinking a little bit further south. the winds not as strong, so it will feel a little bit warmer for many of us. for western scotland, though, westerly winds will bring a bit more cloud to the highlands, the western isles and quite cloudy weather as well for the northern isles of scotland. and although we start off cloudy in lincolnshire, east anglia, south east england, the east midlands, that cloud will tend to burn back toward some of those north sea coasts into the afternoon. it's going to feel a bit warmer, the winds a bit lighter, temperatures a couple of degrees higher with highs up to 1a degrees. 0n into wednesday's forecast,

high pressure is with us once again. if anything, it's going to be warmer for just about everyone, with temperatures around three orfour degrees higher. highs of 17 degrees or so for london, for birmingham, for newcastle and for aberdeen, but maybe 19 the top temperature around the cardiff area. temperature contrast then begins to increase on thursday. they're getting a bit warmer across england and wales, but a bit colder across parts of scotland and north east england. that colder air is arriving with a very weak cold front. so, it will bring a strip of cloud, maybe an odd light shower with it. most areas, though, will stay dry. but those temperatures certainly dropping away. highs only nine degrees celsius in aberdeen, so starting to feel quite chilly once again here, whereas for england and wales, it's a warmer day with temperatures quite widely pushing on into the low 20s. now, it's been a very dry month so far, but that looks set to change as we head towards friday and indeed the weekend, as this area of low pressure drifts up from iberia. it's going to bring some increasingly cloudy skies and the prospect of some rain.

this is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. i'm mike embley. donald trump angrily defends his handling of the coronavirus outbreak which has now killed 22,000 americans. a lot, a lot, and in fact, we will give you a list, part of it in fact, was up there. we did a lot. president macron announces he will begin to lift the french lockdown on may 11. the number of deaths in the uk passes 11,000 but the government says the lockdown measures are working. and an unexpected lockdown outcome — the animals feeling bold enough to come out into our gardens