towards the far south—west will disappear, and then it isjust about across the uk a sunny day, but that brisk easterly breeze does make a difference. these are average speeds, gusts are going to be higher, particularly in england and wales around 30—a0 mph, and that will hold temperatures back along some of these north sea coasts to 10—12d, whereas elsewhere, mid to high teens. hello this is bbc news with james reynolds. the headlines... as a vital shipment of 400 thousand safety gowns from turkey is delayed — some hospitals in england warn they're down to their last few days of supplies. the government says it's doing all it can. we are doing absolutely everything we can to bring as much ppe in from right across the globe. we recognise it's a big challenge. "i can't give you a date" — the education secretary says schools

won't reopen until the uk meets its five tests — but says there are no plans to have them open over the summer. while spain looks towards relaxing lockdown measures by allowing children to go outside from next monday, italy is still considering its next move and the number of daily fines for illegal outdoor activity is on the rise. india enters it's fourth week of coronavirus lockdown — doctors tell the bbc a lack of tests mean they don't yet knowjust how serious the situation is. from what i am hearing from hospitals here, some of them are getting full up and are having now to turn patients away. now on bbc news — hardtalk, with the former labour prime minister, gordon brown. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. donald trump, the leader of the richest, most powerful nation on earth has just suspended american funding for the world health organization.

what does that tell us about the international community's ability to cooperate to combat the covid—19 pandemic? my guest today, in an exclusive interview, is the former british prime minister gordon brown. he's pushing hard for a much bigger international response but what chance does he have, given the current geopolitical climate? gordon brown, welcome to hardtalk. hello. you are leading a big international effort to get the world community to do so much more in response to the coronavirus challenge. i wonder, therefore, how you respond

to the news overnight that us president donald trump has suspended america's funding of the world health organization? well, i think it's difficult, but i think we can overcome this and i think we must not be discouraged. i was dealing with a financial crisis in 2008 and 2009. it was very difficult to persuade people to come on board at the beginning. we didn't have a degree of international cooperation that we wanted in the first few weeks, but people did come round to it. now, what encourages me, is i have seen opinion polls of american public opinion. they want international cooperation to deal with this. i have seen talk from the governors in the states. they want international cooperation. and i think there is something of a misunderstanding here. when we talk about the world health 0rganization, we are talking about a network of networks. we are talking about one group that is searching with a global funding for the vaccine and for the cure, another group that's looking at therapeutics, another looking at diagnostics,

another looking at what we can do to help the poorest countries. now, i don't actually think america's going to pull out of help in these areas. i think this is domestic politics coming through into international actions. but i do think that when we start looking at pledging on health, we can go around the world, you'll start with the european union, britain, norway, then japan, then canada, then korea, then africa pressing for it, and i do think that we will get the funds in that are necessary over the next few weeks, and i do think it's a test — it's a test of whether, in our generation's rendezvous with destiny, we're not going be condemned to the condescension of posterity by failing to act. so i am discouraged, of course, but i am not giving up and i do think we will get the international cooperation we need, but the sooner — the sooner, the better. let me quote you the world—renowned development expert professor ian goldin who said this — "stopping funding for the who, as trump has, is as bad as cutting

the budget for the fire brigade "while unprecedented fires are raging". would you agree? well, i think it's — you could even put it worse, that this is what some people would call the sabotage of the world health organization is actually an act of self—harm on the part of america, because to deal with this locally, in any country, we have got to act globally. the three things we need for an exit from this virus — one, the search for a vaccine and cure. two, the build—up of capacity for testing and for ventilators and so on. and three, preventing a second round of this disease, which could come out of africa or a developing country, which would have no protection from health systems, there are little safety nets, you can't practice the same social distancing in these countries, and then if it comes back in a second wave to hit america, then we all suffer, so i think the exit strategy depends on increased cooperation and i do

think american public opinion will understand that self—interest lies in solidarity... crosstalk. in yourview, then, given everything you've just said, do you believe it is incumbent upon the british prime minister, other allies of the united states and, indeed, the world community as a whole, to put urgent pressure on donald trump to change his mind? yes, and i think they are already saying that and will say that. if the world health organization did not exist, it would have to be created. you have got to have the collection of data, you've gotta have the exchange of information, you've gotta have the pooling and sharing of expertise, you've gotta have the global funding of the search for the vaccine, you've gotta have the global funding of therapeutics and diagnostics. you want to build up capacity to deal with these issues around the world, and you have got to prevent a second round, so it is our duty to try to persuade the americans that, if you like, this solidarity is actually in the self—interest, and i do believe that president trump realised that

when he signed up to the g20 declaration on the 26th of march, which actually said all these things — that he wanted to strengthen the who, that he wanted to give it more resources for preparedness and for dealing with the problems of developing countries, the search for a vaccine and everything. president trump actually signed up to that on the 26th of march, and he should be held to that by his g20 colleagues. let me ask you bluntly — do you see president donald trump as the biggest obstacle to ramping up international cooperation to fight coronavirus right now? what i see is our failure to come together. look, i had to deal with the 2009 financial crisis and what i learned from that is it wasn't enough for me to say in britain "i am doing what i can. i am doing the best i can." it wasn't enough for the imf or the world bank to say "we are doing what we can. we are doing our best." you had to be able to say "we are doing whatever it takes" and to be able to do whatever it

takes, you have got to be coordinated globally. this is a global medical emergency, this is a global economic crisis. both are happening simultaneously and they are happening in almost every continent of the world, and you have to be able to say to people "you may think that what i'm worried about is what is happening in my streetand my family and, yes, that's true, but what's happening globally affecting what is happening in my family and the only way to prevent what is happening to our family continuing and being subject, for example, to a second wave of the virus, is to act globally." so, it's not one person. it's the general idea that has gone out of fashion that we should be cooperating when we have a global problem that is to be dealt with. global problems need global solutions and we don't need to rerun the debate between globalists and nationalists. we've got to persuade people issue by issue that it makes common sense, it is in your self—interest for this cooperation to happen. and i do say that the exit from this virus will not happen

without international cooperation because without it, we cannot guarantee there won't be second, third and fourth rounds coming to hit each of us. i hear that message loud and clear, but you have to accept the world as it is, not as you wish it to be, and surely you must recognise that there is real concern right now, in many capitals — i'm thinking notjust of washington, dc, but we've heard it in tokyo, we've heard it in canberra, australia as well — a feeling that china didn't tell the truth about the beginnings of the coronavirus outbreak, that it lacks transparency, that it has an agenda, a nationalistic agenda that affects the way it handles this entire crisis. well, i think all these questions come up as we review what has happened but the immediate issue is how we can actually deal with the problem that we are faced with — stop it spreading to other countries, get a vaccine and a cure, get the therapeutics and diagnostics, build up our capacity, and i am not sure

it is going to help us to spend all our time analysing what happened injanuary, where there was a failure, clearly a lack of coordination — in fact, probably president trump is complaining more about the lack of cooperation internationally in january than anything else. you want the world bank, the imf and the g20 all to play a much more prominent role in coordinating a massive international response — and it is a response that you have outlined that involves an awful lot of money in different forms, going to the who, going to economic assistance to the poorest countries as they are hit by the coronavirus. do you really believe that is going to happen, when even the rich nations are now looking at the most cataclysmic economic fallout which, even in britain itself, could cost 30% of economic output over the current economic quarter? crosstalk. people do not feel able right now

to consider a massive boost to international assistance. well, i think you have answered your own question because the only way out of this economic global crisis is by global action, and so, if we take fiscal action in the united kingdom, and then others don't, or if we take monetary action in the united kingdom and others don't, then the effect of that will be limited. we are past, if you like, the first phase, which was to get money into the control of the infection and to have employment protection. in a few weeks' time, we will move into the second stage, if you like, where we are going to have to recreate growth in the world economy. now, to recreate growth in the world economy, as we found in 2009, you need a coordinated fiscal stimulus, you need coordinated action by the central banks on monetary policy, but also currency swaps and everything else, and you need to bring in the whole of the world — and notjust one part of the world — to this recovery, so again it is in the enlightened

self—interest of britain and other countries to work together with the international community to get a global and a globally coordinated stimulus going and i think that is a lesson of 2009, but i think it is already being proven to be true when you see that what one country can do is insufficient. to be able to do whatever it takes, we have got to be able, as political leaders, as the british government or the american government to be able to tell the imf and the world bank that we will give them the resources that are necessary for them to play this coordinating role. and you're talking of massive resources, you've talked about $150 billion of assistance to be brokered through the g20 — you have talked about massive debt forgiveness programme for the current year which could add up to 35 or $40 billion... crosstalk. we'lljust take the debt interest to start with because i've got an article with larry summers showing that if we could relieve the debt interest payments of the poorest countries — they are now spending more

on that than they are on their health systems — if we can help them prepare their health systems for what is an accelerating epidemic in their countries, then we might prevent a second round of disease coming into the west. so it is not only in their interest that this happens, it's in our interest. and when you think of the debt relief, i think we are talking in the order of something like $30 or a0 billion, compared with the $2 trillion that america is already spending itself on its own economy, this is a relatively small sum, given a $90 trillion global economy, butjust think of the difference it makes if you can now spend on health protection instead of having to spend on these debt interest payments, and i think most people now agree that that has got to be done for the poorest countries. it only works if world leaders get it in the way that you describe, in terms of the interdependence of the entire global community and the idea that the entire sort of global chain is only as strong as its weakest link. absolutely. but the indications are they don't

get it, and i willjust point you to the fiasco that we saw around the last virtual meeting of the g7, when they couldn't even agree a joint declaration because the americans insisted on describing it as ‘the wuhan virus‘, which others wouldn't sign up to. this is the reality of our world today. stephen, i'm not naive about this. look, we have got america first, we got china first, we've got india first, we've got russia first. america first has, in a sense, gone global. we've got an international coalition of anti—internationalists running countries in different parts of the world. but when the g20 actually came together, my complaint is not that they didn't realise they had a big problem that they had to work together to solve. my complaint is that, having realised that and set it out in a communique, the follow—through is not there, so maybe it is just rhetoric that interests some people, but i do think what's missing is the co—ordination at an executive level. you see, i would bring the imf, the world bank, the who and the un leaders together,

but i would have working with them a group of national leaders from individual continents around the world and i would form that into an executive like the g20, which met in 2009, and day—to—day and week—to—week decisions in some areas could be devolved to these people and then we get on with the business of doing what they said they would do when they met on march 26 but haven't actually yet followed through, and that would be, for example, putting this $8 billion, which is only $1 per person — $1 per person around the world — behind the search for the vaccine and cure. building capacity, again — that's a technical issue. once you agree it has got to be done, you build up your productive capacity and you build up the ability to get these bits of equipment into different countries instead of undercutting each other and competing with each other, and then you build up your resilience for the future by coordinating your fiscal policy. now, all these things can be done, so i don't think it's, as you say, that people are not recognising they've got to do this. i think that there is a failure

of follow—through and i think there's a failure of follow—through that we have got to press the governments of the important countries of the world. to be honest, we are dealing with a number of countries that ought to be leading here. i think everyone around the world watching and listening will appreciate your concern for the poorest in the world, the most fragile communities, who could and do stand to be hit hardest by coronavirus unless the world acts, i get all that. i just want to reflect... crosstalk. stephen, if i'm sitting here in scotland and you're sitting in london, you are asking yourself all the time, what does it mean for my family and my community and my neighbourhood, and you are right to do so, because i am worried and i am anxious about what's happening in my local area and so are you, but you've got, i think, to paint the bigger picture, that if this is a global crisis, and it's a global medical and economic emergency, you protect yourself in your own area, in your own family in your own homes, not simply by acting locally and nationally,

you have got to act globally. you cannot get out of this without a vaccine. this without better diagnostics. you can't get out of this without preventing a second round, and if i can remind people that these problems have got to be resolved globally as well as locally and nationally, then this interview serves a purpose. i want you to reflect on something a little bit different. what does it say about governance around the world that, right now, many people probably feel safer living in seoul or taipei or beijing than they do in london or new york? is there something that we're learning about systems of governance, about attitudes to the state, about attitudes to central authority, that is actually quite damaging to notions of liberal western democracy, and suggests that the most effective form

of government may be something else? certainly there's an issue about government intervening quickly to do testing, tracking, and that does raise issues about private — privacy. and certainly the case from korea, taiwan and some other countries is — but also from germany — is that by tracking and testing, they have done a lot better. but there is another set of issues about the social contract, about people who are vulnerable, and whether they‘ re protected. and i think we're going to see a wholesale reassessment of the social contract, as well. whether people are prepared to accept the risks with our security that happened notjust in some parts of asia, but also in america, where people have to take more risks and there is less welfare and social security provision, that is going to be an issue. and then of course i think these issues of, if you like, protectionism, nationalism, again are going to arise. i mean, how far individual countries feel that they can just walk away

from any responsibilities and the global economy. so i think a whole series of issues — authoritarian government, but also the social contract, risk and security, all these are coming up. and i don't think we should say one country has got all the answers, because some countries may have done well in testing, but are not so good on social security. i want to ask you about one country in particular. that is your own, the united kingdom. as a former prime minister, do you feel that the current government is failing many of the corona challenges right now? i'm thinking of the failure to deliver mass testing, as we've seen in countries like germany. i'm thinking of the problems getting protective equipment to the people who need it, notjust in the health service itself, but on the front line generally, people who have to deal with difficult situations with the general public. there are many ways in which one looks at britain and one sees a country which may well have the highest death toll in europe, when the final count is done, and one may conclude britain is failing the test.

well, any discussion of what's happening here must start with, always, my sympathies for all those people who are facing bereavement and all those people who are suffering as a result of having this virus. and i feel particularly for people who are in the front line, who are putting themselves in danger. to save lives, they're risking their lives. so i think any debate about what's happening in our country has got to start from our understanding of the difficulties that so many people are facing trying to help save lives, and trying to help also save livelihoods. you know, there will be a time when people are going to review what happened, and what happened injanuary and february and march, what happened in the assessment of what was the right policy on testing and herd immunity, and so on. if you don't mind, mr brown, i am asking you for yourjudgement. because there will be a time when we will have to review the evidence, but this is not the right time. the time at the moment is not to be, if you like, critical. the time is to be constructive.

the time is not to look back so much as looking forward. and my role in this is to emphasise my experience of having to deal with the previous crisis, which was smaller in actual practice, it was less complicated, because it wasn'tjust — it was an economic crisis, and this is a health crisis, and cannot be solved without solving the medical problems first. and my experience is that you've got to co—operate more successfully on an international level, and that is the message that i would like to get across to the government. well, i think we have heard that message. i just want to be clear on one thing. the new leader of your labour party, keir starmer, has said the government, the british government, must come clean on its exit strategy. am i to understand from what you have said about exit strategies with me today that you don't believe there can be any return to anything like normality until a vaccine has been found and delivered to the public? what i said was that there

were three elements of an exit strategy that required international cooperation, and the three are the search for a vaccine, but that may be preceded by having better testing equipment and may be preceded by having these better diagnostics that would enable us to identify who was a carrier of the disease, and so on and so forth. and of course, an exit strategy depends on preventing a second round of the disease. as you know, at the moment, many people are very worried that this disease will come back — if it's flattened in april and may, will come back in september, october. and the danger is that as we reopen trade, as we reopen travel, as people's restrictions are lifted, from other countries which have been less successful with their health systems in containing this, the disease comes back to hit us. so i'm not saying that the disease cannot be — we cannot have an exit strategy until we have a cure. what i am saying is that there are three elements of an exit strategy that depend on international cooperation.

two quick thoughts to end. do you think that the british public, and indeed publics around the world, yet have a grip on just how severe the economic damage done by this pandemic is going to be? i think anybody who's not working at the moment, and anybody who is feeling insecure about the future of their job, or anybody who is self—employed and doesn't have a livelihood, knows that this is a global crisis that cannot be solved easily, and is not going to go away very quickly. so i do think people have an understanding. perhaps what we haven't — can't have a full debate about yet is what it means for the future structure of our economy. i think it's going to be a very different economy. over a year or two, it's going to emerge from this. and one of the disappointments after the global financial crisis that i had, we left power in 2010, is that there were structural changes that were needed in the world economy and in the british economy arising from the financial crisis. we got ourselves out of the crisis, unemployment was low, we prevented mortgage repossessions, we prevented business bankruptcies.

but we did not have a chance to rebuild the economy, and it has to be a very different economy in the future. that leads me, if i may come my last point, and i'm going to quote to you the french president, emmanuel macron. he said to me, the day after we have conquered this virus, it will not be a return to the day before. we will be stronger morally, and we will draw the consequences, all of the consequences, of this. now, that's an optimistic view of what the world is going to look like after coronavirus. there are many pessimists who think it's simply going to deepen divisions, fragment the world even more, and make the world a more dangerous place. which camp are you? well, that's the choice. i'm always trying to say let's look at what we can do to prevent the inequality, to prevent the long—term damage to our economy, to prevent the ruining of lives, to be honest, as a result of our failure to invest properly in health and social care, and everything else. i think we're more aware now

of the decisions we've got to make, and that's the balance between the risks people are prepared to take for income, for less tax and for everything else, against the security that people now know that they need. and i think a lot of the gig economy was based on taking large amounts of risk, but not thinking about what security was needed. if a new social contract emerges out of this, then that i think is good for those people who feel most vulnerable in our country at the moment. people who are worried about theirfuturejobs, people who are worried about their future as young people getting jobs in the first place, and of course, older people worried about the future of social care, which is obviously under huge pressure, without the proper resources to deal with that at the moment. gordon brown, we have to end there, but i thank you very much indeed forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you.

hello. if you are lucky enough to have a garden, it will see plenty of sunshine this week. you will have to do the watering though, because it is looking dry just about across the uk. as i show you the big picture, you won't be surprised to find high pressure, that's why it's so settled in the week ahead. fairly brisk easterly breeze, note the isobars fairly close together, at least during the first half of the week, may make it feel a little cooler than the sunshine and temperatures might suggest. now, as we take a look through the rest of the night, some high cloud spilling in across parts of southern england and the channel islands. you mayjust get an isolated shower, whilst most will avoid a frost, there are parts of scotland especially in the highlands that will becolder than this, they make it down to —5 in the coldest spots here.

those temperatures rebound quickly in the sunshine tomorrow morning. any early cloud towards the southwest of england with a chance of an isolated shower will disappear, and then it is sunshine just about across the board for monday. but the wind is in play these are the average speeds on this easterly wind gust, especially through england and wales, it will be around 30—a0 mph. and that's significant, this is the temperature of the north sea at the moment, just around 7—9d. of course, the breeze is flowing a bit of a distance over that north sea, so the air is being cooled closer to that temperature. so right along this north sea coast, may be just io—ilid, whereas elsewhere, temperatures will be in the mid to high teens. little change for tuesday, although, later in the week, we will find that breeze easing a little bit, so even along that north sea coast, it will feel a bit warmer. tuesday still brings a chance of an isolated shower towards the channel islands, the far southwest of england, parts of wales. a bit more cloud here compared with elsewhere, but a similar contrast in temperatures between those north sea coasts and further in land, where the warm spots

are into the west as well will be near 20 celsius. high isn't quite so much in control later in the week, and some weather systems do try to get a bit closer from the atlantic, so for friday into the weekend, expect a bit more cloud. it will turn a bit cooler, and there is a chance of a shower. but even going into the weekend, although you notice these temperatures have come down a little bit, there is still no sign of any widespread rain. so most places will remain dry. and april really is shaping up to be a very dry, quite warm month. that's how it's looking this week.

this is bbc news, with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. a vital shipment of personal protective equipment to the uk is delayed, with some hospitals warning supplies are almost exhausted. the government says the system is under enormous strain. we are doing absolutely everything we can to bring as much ppe in from right across the globe. we recognise it's a big challenge. we'll look at why the supply is running short and what can be done to solve the problem. also ahead.... "i can't give you a date" — the education secretary says schools won't reopen until the uk meets its five tests, but says there are no plans to have them open over the summer. spain looks to ease its lockdown — the prime minister says he wants children to be allowed outside again. but italy's measures remain in place, with all public spaces, including beaches,