this is bbc news, the headlines: the government website for key workers in england to request a coronavirus test stops taking bookings — just hours after launching — because the system isn't coping with demand. it was very easy to log on and register, itjust said that you would then receive a text which would take a few minutes but it might take a little bit longer if it's busy. and i've still not had a text yet so i'm assuming that they're very busy. the biggest drop in retail sales since records began — down by more than 5% because of the coronavirus lockdown. exactly one month since the lockdown began, there are concerns that people are no longer following the rules. medical experts criticise president trump, after he suggests injections of bleach might kill

the coronavirus: when i see the disinfectant when it knocks that out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside? and, more than £27 million pounds is raised by the big night in, for charities supporting people through the pandemic. good afternoon. the newly launched government website which allows key workers in england to register for a coronavirus test has stopped taking bookings,

just hours after it went live. it was announced yesterday that up to 10 million people and members of their household will be able to request a test, and the scottish government has said it wants to put a similar system in place very soon. but a message on the website in england is already asking people to try again later. under the new plan, all key workers should be able to register for a test online, if they or a family member have virus symptoms. the tests will contribute to the government's target of adminstering 100,000 tests a day by the end of this month. thursday's figure was just over 23,500, although the capacity has increased to 51,000. meanwhile in the united states, the president has been lambasted by the medical community after he speculated during a news conference, that coronavirus might be treated by injecting disinfectant into the body. it led to the world's biggest manufacturer of disinfectants

to issue this stark rebuttal, saying that under no circumstance should disinfectant products be administered into the human body. we'll have more on those comments from president trump in a moment but first on that expansion of testing in the uk, here's our health correspondent jane dreaper. testing is vital for tackling coronavirus. individuals need to know whether they have it and government scientists need a detailed picture about the spread of the virus. now all essential workers such as supermarket staff and care workers in england are being told they can register for a test if they or a family member have coronavirus symptoms. the government is trying to meet an ambitious goal to massively increase the level of testing within days. we have had this ramp up incapacity to test in advance of the 100,000 target at the end of next week. currently just over 50,000 tests are available but not as many people have been coming forward as we had expected.

now of course, that was a problem, but it's a good problem to have because it means we have been able to expand who can get a test faster. but this morning the government website quickly ran out of slots and anyone trying to register for a test got this message. ministers apologised and said more spaces would be available tomorrow. there are around 30 centres set up for testing if workers are able to drive to them, but there has been criticism that they are often too far away. mike is a teacher who feels unwell and he applied but didn't manage to get a testing slot this morning. it was very easy to log on and register. it just said that you would then receive a text which would take a few minutes but it might take a bit longer if it's busy. and i've still not had a text yet so i'm assuming that they are very busy. pop—up testing stations like these ones run by the army are also part of the push against coronavirus. there are already plans

to expand testing to critical workers in wales. private sector front line workers will be included in the northern ireland programme. and the scottish government also wants key workers tested. we are working through today that system becoming operational in scotland, there's one or two practical issues we have to make sure we understand here in scotland so that it fits with our approach to testing and the systems we have in place but certainly our intention is that that will be up and running here too. the testing strategy in england also includes sending nhs staff swab kits and they can use at home, and expanding that to wider groups of workers. the government has faced criticism over testing, with accusations that its plans haven't been sufficiently quick or comprehensive. efforts to meet next week's target will be watched closely. jane dreaper, bbc news. 0ur political correspondent, helen catt, is in westminster.

0bviously helen catt, is in westminster. the government des for obviously the government desperate for this site to be up and running but it is just interesting how much demand there has already been. we know that those home testing kits and particularly when they were ordered they went very quickly, so within two minutes, we are told, of the portal opening of 5000 total allocations for today were ordered. now what is happening with those of the idea that they will be delivered next day, people can test themselves and then they get the results back within 72 hours. we are told that there are plans, though, to increase there are plans, though, to increase the number of home testing kits that are available each day to the service so we are available each day to the service so we can are available each day to the service so we can get 18,000 from next week. there are also of course lots that drive those that were available to be booked, they are closed to, they are full, but we are told that the website will be reopened when you slots are available. what downing street can't tell is at the moment is what time

this is likely to be. are we likely to be ina this is likely to be. are we likely to be in a situation where people are going to have to sit there the midnight waiting for its open so they can book a test or not, we don't know yet. the other thing about this test is that you do have to have it pretty quickly because it's to tell it if you've have coronavirus not if you have had it so coronavirus not if you have had it so it needs to be done pretty quickly to be any use at all, downing street's spokesman said that the system was working that people are booking slots and they are available to be tested so we will just need to wait to see when they will be open. there is still not very ambitious target out there in terms of overall testing. yes, the government set out this target of carrying out 100,000 tests every day by the end of the month, which of course is next week. now, at the moment they have the capacity, so the total ability to carry out over

51,000 tests, so they are halfway there in terms of capacity but the number of test that they are actually carrying out is somewhere around half that. the government has said that among the people who are eligible for them, which are largely nhs and care workers, the demand wasn't there, of course you have to have symptoms to have this test, there is no point having it if you don't have symptoms, you have to be symptomatic to qualify. now that they have extended this eligibility to so many more people i think it will be really interesting to see if the number keeps creeping up to the total capacity that they said they will be able to do, as well as the government still has to be able to double the capacity by the end of next week. retail sales fell by more than 5% last month, the biggest drop since records began — a result of the coronavirus lockdown. sales of clothing were particularly badly hit. but food shopping increased — and alcohol sales were up by 31%. our business correspondent emma simpson reports.

they call it the happiness shop, but there is little to smile about for this small gift store in carmarthen. it was doing well until coronavirus struck. like most of the high street it has had to temporarily shut. in the two weeks in the run up to lockdown we were down 24% on last year and then obviously since we have closed the doors we have had nothing coming on as a result of the shop being closed. coronavirus is having an unprecedented impact on retail. here in the supermarket aisles we bought a record amount of groceries last month. food sales were up by 10% thanks to panic buying. sales of alcohol soared 31% at off—licences. but that wasn't enough to offset the huge fall in clothing sales, a drop of 35%. other goods were down too. fashion's taken a hammering, retailers had been pinning their hopes on a strong spring season but with high streets deserted, sales have collapsed, and many businesses are under enormous financial pressure.

this one's in administration, along with sister brand 0asis. other well—known names have also collapsed and there will be store closures at debenhams too. the coronavirus has come in with a crushing effect in terms of nonessential purchases, the non—food purchases, as the buyer is very aware of the economic effect, notjust now, but on going. so this is going to have significant effect, not just in the lockdown period, but as those brands look ahead in the weeks and months ahead, how can they get a buyer to purchase when their appetite is just simply not there? b&q has just reopened half its stores up with social distancing measures in place. there is certainly healthy demand for diy goods right now, but retailers fear the economic pain will last well beyond the end of lockdown, whenever that will be. emma simpson, bbc news. it's exactly one month

since the prime minister announced the current lockdown measures, which are designed to save lives and protect the nhs. but are people following the rules? the national rural crime network says confusion about the exercise guidelines is contributing to a rise in the number of people heading to beauty spots, and the organisation says it's resulted in increased tension in rural areas. police say they will use discretion and judgment in deciding how to respond, as claire marshall reports. polzeath in cornwall yesterday. it could be on a postcard. but look through the lens of a world locked down by a global pandemic, and you may see something very different. these kayakers had to be rescued last week, drifting out to sea, the lifeboat cleaned and disinfected. we don't want our lifeboat crews, who once they are launched on a shout, once they respond to their pagers, have no choice of social distancing, they have to come together, they have to sit together in a small lifeboat,

in a confined space, to rescue anybody, whoever that might be, with whatever disease or infection they may have. but these days, exercise is so vital for physical and mental health, the guidance has been relaxed, it's confusing. i think it's pretty vague. like, government guidelines have said you shouldn't be allowed in the sea, however the council and everyone else know that this is a community. when you're in the sea, you can easily keep a safe distance apart from everybody. most people do seem to be respecting the key message to stay at home. the tourist honeypot of scarborough is still quiet. but could this be changing? we are seeing increased numbers of vehicles on the roads. and we are definitely seeing more people out and about in communities, creating i think, enhanced tension in communities where communities are saying, actually, we thought this had been resolved. residents of a little parish on the somerset levels definitely feel it's not being resolved.

200, 300, 400 people a day come through. valerie naughton, who's lived here for a0 years, says she's recording more and more people choosing to come here. for them, they are getting away from it all. we do not know how it's being spread, we don't know who's got it and who hasn't, and with all these people, not only for theirselves, but us in the parish, we are an older generation and we do feel very strongly that we're isolating ourselves and we feel why are they not? in one hour, we recorded at least 60 people exercising. but duncan believes he's not hurting anyone. if i was walking, i'd have to pass people so what do you do? how do you get your exercise, then? you tell me. we are all so different. we have different needs and priorities and our view of what's reasonable is different. and trying to write rules that are seen as being fair to everyone in such a short space of time

is almost impossible and it does seem that the clarity of that stay—at—home message is being blurred, just as everyone gets sick of the lockdown. it looks like it will be another lovely weekend. the question is, will the lure of freedom and fresh air be too much to resist? claire marshall, bbc news. before we bring your attention to what the first minister in wales has been saying let us bring you the latest figures that have come through for england only, the number of deaths with covid—19. rising to 17,373, so the overall english hospital death toll rising to 17,373. that is a vice, i am just

being told, of 587, so the visor overnight is 587 sadly, that is the latest toll there for england. 0nly you will know if you watch regularly at this time that figures are released piecemeal some were around about this time from the different parts of the uk so as we get others will bring those to you. the first minister of wales, mark drakeford, has published his government's framework for exiting the lockdown. it contains seven key questions which will determine when restrictions can be relaxed. however, in the short term, some restrictions are going to be tightened — let's hear a little from mark dra keford. they will in the end involve judgments, weighing up of these

factors one against another coming to a decision in the round. will that decision be essentially political? i don't think so, it will still be a decision fundamentally informed by the medical advice, the scientific advice. in the end decisions have to be taken and the questions, the tests we set out in our framework document are the questions we think we need to ask ourselves as we work through the different measures that we could take. bbc wales political editor, felicity evans joins me. good afternoon. explain more, then, about what mark drakeford is aiming at and the seven key areas that politicians are having to think through. certainly. so he said that he wanted to start a conversation with the welsh people about the process of beginning to ease the lockdown and how that might work, a sort of consideration that they bear in mind. so the first one he said would be to see a sustained drop in hospital admissions for 14 days, now we have seen that in wales for about a week so that would be another seven days or so, but he said there

would also be a set of seven criteria that he would look up which is different from what matt hancock has said about england where there are five questions that they are considering. when you compare them largely there are differences of emphasis i would say rather than any substantial differences but the welsh ones include things like would you be able to quickly reverse the easing if it turned out it was having unintended consequences, would any easing have positive implications for the economy, peoples well—being implications for the economy, peoples well— being and implications for the economy, peoples well—being and importantly, the first minister says for equality, so course there's other things they will bear in mind that he used the metaphor of a set of traffic lights are how this would work, so are the red zone and then if that works in amber zone and so forth. it follows on relief in everything we have talked about this week from nicola sturgeon, that sense that you are not trying to tell the public that this is coming to an end anytime soon but coming in

saying we want to have a conversation, we want to be grown up about this, and we want everybody, really, to bear in mind the many, many factors have to be taken into consideration. that's right, and you make an important point today about the way that the devolved governments and started this conversation. mark dra keford governments and started this conversation. mark drakeford said yesterday that he thought it was very helpful the way that nicola sturgeon had laid out yesterday and he said he thought it was helpful for him to do that today. he rejected suggestions that that in any way undermine the four nations approach to this. he said that his preference is definitely for every nation in the united kingdom to do this in lockstep but he said he would be willing to earn whilst on their own would be willing to earn whilst on theirown pap if would be willing to earn whilst on their own pap if necessary. he said rather than undermining the uk plan he said that it showed it up because

it contributed to the discussion of how it might be ok to do this. —— he said he would be willing to take wales on their own pack if necessary. the headlines on bbc news... the government website for millions of essential workers to request a coronavirus test has stopped taking bookings hours after it was launched. the high street sees its biggest drop in retail sales since records began — down by more than 5 percent because of the coronavirus lockdown. the world's biggest disinfectant manufacturer says their products should never be injected into the body after president trump suggests it could be a way to treat covid—19. now, we've been hearing earlier about the impact of the lockdown in rural parts of the country. are people in the uk's towns and cities following the lockdown guidelines,

exactlu one month on? 0ur correspondent dan johnson has been investigating. the queues may be back at b and q but the lockdown goes on. hardware stores did not have to close so some have now decided to reopen, meaning more people are on the move but it's not a relaxation of the restrictions. i can understand why people would be slightly confused. no, government has not started to ease lockdown without you knowing, what has happened is that shops had decided to take advantage of the fact they were able to open but had been closed. in a london park at this group was spotted out for a game of football. people were exercising at crosby beach this morning, as they are allowed, but there are some pushing the boundaries. it tends to be teenagers who obviously, in the 17, 18,19 years of age, large groups of males and females, who tend to come out on their bicycles, mountain bikes, in large groups. mind the gap. public transport use

are still vastly reduced, many bosses are trundling around empty but available for key workers. traffic levels were around a third of what would normally be expected at the start of this month. there are signs of a very slight increase but overwhelmingly, people are abiding by the restrictions. the question is when and how will they be lifted ? we could be going through periods of easing of lockdown and then responding to new cases, particularly localised outbreaks, by maybe putting more pressure onto restrictions, it's not going to be a linear, sort of decrease. so while there may be some signs of more movement, the strange quietness of this basis we once shared will continue. social distancing in one form or another looks set to be with us for some time yet. dan johnson, bbc news. president trump has been criticised by medical experts for suggesting that injections of disinfectant might kill the coronavirus. donald trump raised the idea at his daily white house briefing, where he also queried whether ultra violet light might

have a role in treating covid—19. his comments came after preliminary us government research suggested the virus dies more quickly when exposed to sunlight and heat. caroline hawley reports: it is still the epicentre of the pandemic. in new york, the spread of coronavirus has, at last, started to slow. but the number of cases across this vast country continues to rise. more than 50,000 americans have now died of the disease. that is approaching the number killed in the vietnam war. at the start of the pandemic, president trump predicted it could all be over come the summer. research is under way by the department of homeland security on the effects of sunlight and heat on the virus. prompting this from the president. the question that probably some of you are thinking of, if you are totally into that world, which i find to be very interesting, so, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous,

whether it's ultraviolet orjust very powerful light, and i think you said that hasn't been checked but you're going to test it. and then i said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. the scientists who leads america's response to the pandemic could hardly conceal her feelings. not as a treatment. i mean, certainly fever it's a good thing, when you have a fever it helps your body respond. but i've not seen heat or light. but mr trump had other suggestions up his sleeve. and then i see that disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. one minute. and is there a way we can do something like that? by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. because as you see, it gets in the lungs and does a tremendous number on the lungs. so it would be interesting to check that. so you're going to have to use medical doctors. his comments caused

an immediate outcry. from the medical community to makers of disinfectant, there have been cries of alarm. makers of disinfectant have issued strong warnings that their products should never be put into the human body. across the world, the medical community has reacted with alarm. to suggest that you can sort of inject or drink detergent and you'll get rid of it is complete nonsense and actually quite dangerous. i think it is very worrying that some people might take his words literally. in washington, outside the trump international hotel, protesters showed what they think of their president and his handling of this unprecedented crisis. caroline hawley, bbc news.

just to bring you the figures that had just come through from wales for us had just come through from wales for us in terms of the continued human impact of coronavirus the figure in wales is that a further 110 people have died after testing positive for covid—19 and it brings the total number of deaths in wales to 751. that is just through in the last few moments. another 751 people sadly dying with covid—19 in wales. the english hospital death toll came through in the last few minutes and that overall figure now stands at 17,373. we will talk to our health correspondent late in the afternoon. transport for london is sending a quarter of its workforce home under the government furlough scheme, saving it an estimated £4 million a week. tfl says passenger numbers are down by 90% on one month ago. the capital's mayor sadiq khan has warned that public transport won't immediately return to normal

when lockdown is lifted. businesses including pubs, restaurants and cinemas have had to close their doors during the lockdown. just a handful have stayed open to some degree though. leon, which describes itself as a "naturally fast food" chain, has kept some of its branches open to customers, especially for nhs employees and other key workers. let's speak to its ceo and co—founder of leon, john vincent. good afternoon to you. good afternoon. so what drove your decision to open at least some of your branches because plenty of cafe is in chains have not felt capable

of doing that. as you said, we have a lots of restaurants and hospitals and also a lot of restaurants where key workers still rely on take obey all the ability to eat when they are about —— rely on take away all the ability to eat when they are out and about. we offered a significant discount to nhs teams and as the others close their doors we actually became quite an important source of food for those nhs workers, it turns out. then plus key workers plus people that wanted delivery at home, the demand requests from our customers was actually to stay open and some of our restaurants. what was the feeling among your staff though, because not necessarily every branch is terribly big and that produces an issue with social distancing, doesn't it? yes, everybody who wanted to not work was given the option of not working and the people that did want to work we re the people that did want to work were given that option as well and it really is interesting. some

people were in the middle some people were in the middle some people wanted to work but actually felt that their transport, .. they didn't have easy transport to work, for example, so i would say that the ones that are working feel very positive about working but certainly those who didn't want to work for certain reasons as well were given that option. to what extent are you able to pay those staff who just feel i that i don't want to work, i can't physically get there? everyone in our industry somewhat reg retta bly everyone in our industry somewhat regrettably actually has had to take the government up on the furlough scheme so for our team is the same as everyone else in our industry those team members were put on the furlough which is this new word obviously that we are all somewhat now familiar with. yes. in terms of planning as a business, we're still in lockdown, what sort of planning can you do? how much do you do? do

you think, d0 think ahead to what it is going to be like, how you're going to get back up to bailis it ever going to be up to quite the way it was in your business, do you thinkthink? i had a board meeting yesterday and what became really clear was that the illusion that after a few weeks of hard work we are all going to get back and it will be as it was before, that clearly is an illusion. i don't think anyone is possessing, maybe not even anyone in government or anyone on the same scientific committee is even saying that they know exactly what will happen. —— i don't think anyone is professing. what we have to do is businesses it to be flexible and to create scenarios. rather than say this is our base case where we have to create the future we have to have five or six scenarios based on what could happen both from a legislative perspective but also from a consumer

mindset perspective and i don't think, .. mindset perspective and i don't think,.. doi mindset perspective and i don't think,.. do i think in the long term we will get back to where we were? probably, because if i look at the spanish flu or even further black plague, or black the black death, sorry for bringing those terms up, we do seem to anthropologically be social animals that i think the medium term is more complicated. thank you very much. that was the ceo of the leon chain there. we'll now give you weather prospects. the fine weather continues. temperatures have been in the low and mid 20s. today is no different. tomorrow is going to be another warm day and, of course, the sun is very strong this time of the year. it is not that warm everywhere, in fact in

aberdeen at the end of the afternoon it is only 11 celsius and certainly a lot fresher on the north sea coast. by the day centre, we could see a couple of showers breaking out across south—western parts of the uk, but very isolated. in the early hours of saturday morning, in nippy start across the north of the country around three celsius. not quite so cold in the south. again, a chance of one to share is breaking out across wales and the south—west of the country, not classic april showers, but it is april and it is a shower. another mostly sunny day tomorrow and another one or two showers breaking out across wales and the south—west of the country, not classic april showers, but it is april and it is a shower. another mostly sunny day tomorrow and another 11 again. goodbye. hello, this is bbc news. the headlines: the government website for key workers in england to request a coronavirus test stops taking bookings — just hours after launching because the system isn't coping with demand.

the number of reported deaths from covid—19 in hospitals in england rises by 587 to more than 17,300. another 110 people have died in wales. the biggest drop in retail sales since records began — the high street sees its biggest drop in retail sales since records began — down by more than 5 percent because of the coronavirus lockdown. the world's biggest disinfectant manufacturer says their products should never be injected into the body after president trump suggests it could be a way to treat covid—19. the labour party is carrying out a review into why the coronavirus pandemic is disproportionately affecting black, asian and minority ethnic people. baroness doreen lawrence has been appointed by the party leader

sir keir starmer to lead the inquiry, as the latest statistics suggest people from ethnic minority backgrounds account for more than a third of critically ill patients, and the most deaths among health workers. the government has also commissioned an investigation, to be led by public health england. rianna croxford reports. my father is a very proud man of his roots injamaica. always talks of his memories in jamaica. all the time. known by his loved ones as rex, died of suspected coronavirus in a care home in coventry on monday. his son charlie is one of many families desperate for answers. it's been very difficult. very difficult. as a family. you know, we need to know if, you know, what ourfather died of. it's still not clear why people from black, asian,

ethnic minority communities seem to be a greater risk of becoming seriously ill with coronavirus. or why the majority of health care workers who have died have been from these backgrounds. today, the labour party started its review to find answers, the bbc listened in. we had 15 different bame organisations only call, hearing from their experience. the fact that the first ten doctors who died were all from black and ethnic minority backgrounds is stark. the key figures coming out time and again art ppe, not adequate, not the black and ethnic minority staff saying this, they are being pushed to the forefront. baroness lawrence is leading the labour party inquiry. 0ur voices are not being heard. we need to be able to come together like this. and put out a report and say this is

what is happening in the community. i think sometimes the government do not understand where they pretend that it not understand where they pretend thatitis not understand where they pretend that it is not as important or we are not as important. but yet we make up so many of the medical profession that is treating people with any hospital. the former chairman of the equality and human rights commission trevor phillips is leading the review. if we had been keeping regular data we would have known all about this a month ago. we are at least a month behind where we need to be. simply because people have been too squeamish to collect data about ethnicity. for other families like charlie's who are in emotional limbo, more clarity is needed. we need to know if our father died of covid—19. we need answers, we need him tested. we will turn our attentions to parliament, virtually because we willdip into parliament, virtually because we will dip into the commons.

the science and technology committee is sitting. we have been hearing from greg clark, the chair of the committee and today the chief medical advisor to the government, professor chris whitty will be giving evidence this. this is doctor michael mcbride who is just this is doctor michael mcbride who isjust addressing the this is doctor michael mcbride who is just addressing the committee right now. let's listen and adhere some of this. and, you know, that has stood the test of time. i suppose i am probably the last survivor from the last pandemic the h1n1 and it was certainly very telling that during that time that the support, the sharing of detailed

information, modelling, scientific papers, clinical advice and guidance the respective work we were doing in each jurisdiction the respective work we were doing in eachjurisdiction and the respective work we were doing in each jurisdiction and shading that as soon as it became available. as gregor said, and engagement, the regular engagement three times a week, with the chief medical officer and our chief nursing 0fficer week, with the chief medical officer and our chief nursing officer is across the administration, clinicians, has be crucially important in ensuring that we have the latest, most up—to—date clinical evidence and then translate that into revised guidance and practice. thank you, that is very helpful. can you hear me now? thank you very much because notjust to you hear me now? thank you very much because not just to add to the above, really. what my colleagues have said. at officer level, really since the get go with this crisis, we have had a very good at officer level interaction with the cmo is as

michael has said and have been meeting at least three times a week, if not more as needed, and it is in your commission script which brings in public health england and nhs executive as well has been absolutely invaluable in terms of the operational detail. we have also had good links with our teams through the public health agency and public health wales in public health england. has been a call the hse. 0n top of that, the ministerial groups, the cobra meetings and groups. i think that architecture has really helped to serve during this time. thank you. professor whitty, we are delighted to have you because since you last appeared before the parliamentary committee, you are self isolating, having suffered the symptoms of covid—19, i hope you are

fully recovered ? symptoms of covid—19, i hope you are fully recovered? yes. thank you, chair. i really do not want to repeat what my colleagues have said, i think the interaction between the cmo is has been excellent and we are often communicating several times a day if things are urgent. we also have course interact with our own chief scientific adviser is to government, mr patrick ballance i collaborate with him extremely closely. and communicate with him at least once a day are often more often —— sir patrick ballance. each often —— sir patrick ballance. each of the four nations has scientific advice in addition to the overall uk structure. just sticking to the cmo area, that has worked very well and we have also linked up as a clinical group with senior doctors, senior nurses and other professionals to make sure that across the four nations we have a joint professional view about what is happening and what is going on and what is needed any scientific and operational level. can i turn to my colleague on

the committee carol monaghan? thank you, chair. ifi the committee carol monaghan? thank you, chair. if i could direct a couple of questions to doctor smith, please. from the scotland perspective. the scottish covid—19 advisory group was set up to be separate from sage. why was it felt that this was required? was offering different advice to that at that stage was offering and, can i ask, is this advisory group in scotland communicating with other experts around the world and, if so, are they hitting different things to what has been communicated here in the uk? different advice to what sage was often? from the early days scotla nd sage was often? from the early days scotland has participated in the sage advisory structure. it is not just the sage group itself, but the

subgroups of sage and the way that information has all come together. we have found that a very useful relationship but as time progressed it was becoming apparent that a lot of the discussion was increasing the focus on the english context and the models were being applied to the english context i think, quite rightly, we wondered how we could ta ke rightly, we wondered how we could take this good information, this intelligence that was being developed by the modelling groups around the sage and apply it to the scottish context, recognising our own demography, geography and also the differences within the scottish health and care, health and social ca re system. health and care, health and social care system. we see the scottish advisory group has been very much complimentary to the sage structures that are there and drawing information from the structures, but very early we establish the principle of reciprocity with those advisory group structure so there was a sharing of information both ways so that as our own scottish advisory group began to develop

information that was felt useful for those wider uk structures, that was being shared in the opposite direction as well. and part of the initialfounding principles direction as well. and part of the initial founding principles of that was to make sure that the chair of our scottish advisory group, professor andrew morris, was also a member of that sage group as well. just as we learn from sage, it is important that we learn from experience around the globe at the moment. each one of the very varied backgrounds of the scientists who are in the scottish advisory group, from a range of different disciplines, from behavioural science, epidemiology, virology, they had their own networks which they had their own networks which they can learn from as well so it is important that we distill the information that we are able to gain from their networks into the scottish picture. could ijust follow u p scottish picture. could ijust follow up on that, then. you're talking about drawing on expertise and the reciprocity of that, but can

i ask, how you felt confident where there is need to be able to diverge from the english uk strategy? because there must be some elements of how we tackle this that will be done differently according to what you have talked about, the demographic and the geology and everything else? so we have spoken about the different context that it is in scotland and i think it is very important then that we imply those models and the data which is available to —— apply those models and data to the scottish context. 0ne and data to the scottish context. one of the early things that we recognise was that the experience in scotla nd recognise was that the experience in scotland of covid—19 were slightly different of that of, particularly, the south of england because we were ata the south of england because we were at a different stage of that uk epidemic and we had, at that stage, very much fewer numbers of cases which were being presented and, perhaps, was being seen in london or the south of england. so it became

important for us to apply the models and learning which was coming from those parts of the country to the unique context which we had in scotla nd unique context which we had in scotland at that time, which at, as i say, represented scotland at that time, which at, as isay, represented in scotland at that time, which at, as i say, represented in earlier part of the epidemic. what we should do and the actions in scotland, perhaps learning from the experience elsewhere at the different stages. thank you, chair. can ask whether you and your committee advise on the publication that the scottish government put out on its framework for decision—making? government put out on its framework for decision-making? so the advisory group was providing advice throughout the period that that document was being developed and any principles that you see within it, asi principles that you see within it, as i say, many of them have had their routing in some of the scientific advice that is coming from what this committee and other committees in the uk structures as well. those principles of need and making sure first of all that we suppress the transmission of the virus in order that we can begin

that recovery period. it is really, really important. so it reflects your advice. is there any material aspect in which it departs from advice that have given?” aspect in which it departs from advice that have given? i think in any of the discussion that we have had a certain way across the four nations between the cmos, there has been a remarkable sense of agreement in terms of the approaches that we need to take from the scientific basis. the science is after all the signs. where perhaps we differ very su btly signs. where perhaps we differ very subtly is in the unique differences of different countries and health ca re systems of different countries and health care systems in terms of how we make sure that they are protected. let me come to my colleague mark logan and then steven and andrew griffith. thank you, chair. just before i begin. i make... my question to doctor mcbride. thank you very much

for making time today i would just like to ask how northern ireland manages the coordination with the re st of manages the coordination with the rest of the uk that you touched upon earlier? and the republic of ireland? i think that it is crucially important that we do that and that has been working its removal. as gregor and frank has already mentioned, there are very close relation with ourselves. and public health departments across the united kingdom. that is the case in relation to interface with my counterpart who is the chief medical 0fficer counterpart who is the chief medical officer in the republic of ireland. between our public health agency in northern ireland and the health capacity of the executive in the republic of ireland. certainly, we have also had five cmo calls, which have also had five cmo calls, which have included at least three or four occasions doctor houlihan in munication with ourselves discussing issues like such as the air at the

paris is behaving, how the epidemic is evolving —— how the virus is behaving. and the different phases ofa behaving. and the different phases of a response. as frank has said, those communications and interactions have occurred, notjust at official level, including respective public health bodies and authorities, but also at at ministerial level so back in early to mid march we had ourfirst north—south ministerial council meeting which included the taoiseach and our first minister, deputy first minister, respective health ministers and officials. since that time we have had a series of conferences which have included our respective ministers both from northern ireland and the republic of ireland and the northern ireland 0ffice discussing a wide range of issues. being able to attend and participate in those conversations.

and between the republic of ireland and ourselves in northern ireland, we have drawn up a memorandum of understanding, which religious builds on the very long established working arrangements that we have in place covering issues such as modelling, issues such as behavioural signs, issues in relation to research, ethics —— behavioural science. and we take the information and learning from collea g u es information and learning from colleagues in england, scotland and wales developed and the republic of ireland shared information with ourselves so we have a truly integrated and fully informed picture. the introduction that was described within the uk is a very productive one and, similarly, the interface between myself and the officials and colleagues in the republic and across these islands is working its removal, can i ask doctor mcbride just on the memorandum, which was enacted a few

weeks ago. it has more guidance, as opposed to a kind of unified approach, as i understand it, across republican and northern ireland, but other instances in a recent press cove rage other instances in a recent press coverage whereby the republic and the government has talked about the two kilometres distance in terms of going out to exercise? are there exercises whereby politics aside, from the epidemiological point of view, policies should be more consistent across the border?|j consistent across the border?” think that, obviously, we as officials advise and ministers aside andi officials advise and ministers aside and i think that is the member from glasgow north—west said in response to her earlier question. as officials, as chief medical officers, chief scientific advisers, we provide advice to ministers and ministers make decisions in their jurisdiction. as gregor said, the epidemic within individual countries and parts of the uk has behaved little differently and the many

factors which feed into that include issues such as population density so obviously it is important that each jurisdiction ministers within its jurisdiction, will make decisions which are most appropriate to ensure that the appropriate measures are applied at the appropriate points in time and, equally, any conversation in the future about how those measures or how we can set back from those. we must bear in mind that, clearly, whilst there must the scientific basis and regional variation, the public message on thatis variation, the public message on that is crucially important as well. we would share —— we share a land border with the republic of ireland, as you know yourself, and many villages spanned the border, a third of the villages in the republic of ireland and two thirds in northern ireland. —— a third of the village is in the republic of ireland and 230 northern ireland. and there is an interface between wales, england, parts of england and scotland. these

are parts of england and scotland. these a re really parts of england and scotland. these are really important issues, which, as we will say, we will be approaching any joined up as we will say, we will be approaching anyjoined up way and the relationship we have as chief medical officers is long established and respect to public health bodies in providing advice to ministers will be helpful in providing advice to that respect. thank you. if we can answer short as possible so we can answer short as possible so we can get lots of questions. sleeping? thank you, chair. i would like to direct doctor atherton and start by saying thank you for everything you're doing at this time for the people of wales, but i would like to you about the importance of testing and tracing any welsh context and how that fits in with the wider uk approach to tackling coronavirus because, i have to say, it is not clear to me that there is a very clear to me that there is a very clear plan protesting that has been enrolled in wales. today, welsh

government, unlike the scottish chairman, has chosen not to be part of the uk government testing portal that went live —— scottish government. the welsh minister has dropped the testing targets in wales. i hear that some of the health boards in wales have not been fully sighted on the the original testing centres. i wonder where you could give us an insight into how the policy and testing is being developed in wales and who actually is calling the shots? is the uk wide framework at work here, is it welsh government, is it delight? where as policy be made and how is it being made? i will try to be brief. one of the structures that we created in wales was a technical advisory sale with the equivalent of what gregor was describing in scotland and was

our attempt to take the scientific information from a sage and translated into the welsh context. 0ne translated into the welsh context. one of the uses of that advisory sale was to look in detail at testing and it was quite early on it developed a testing policy which we have been using consistently since then. that talked about the ramping up then. that talked about the ramping up of numbers, the increasing capacity that we have been driving forwards in wales and which has been subject to a lot of discussion, of course. but it also, more importantly, talked about the use of the testing, how we were going to use it and it was very clear from early days that we had four main areas that we wanted to use. first of all, we wanted to make sure it was used for patient care, direct patient care, especially patients presenting to the health system, but secondary to look after the

interests of health and care workers and very early on we recognised that we need to protect their health. that testing capacity we want to put to that he is. the third area was around surveillance, getting a better understanding of how the virus was transmitting in the population and in subgroups of population, hospitals and care homes. and the fourth was to look after key workers who are unable to work because they were not well. our members were unwell. that has been approached through it and we are very fortu nate approached through it and we are very fortunate in wales that very early on in the epidemic, we were able to develop capacity testing capacity within the university hospitals in wales because we have some very gifted and talented a biologist who worked there. we got that up and running really quite quickly —— very quickly. that is how we have been using a testing ever since. stephen, do you want to come

back on that? i just wonder whether, very briefly, doctor atherton, where you consulted on the decision not for the welsh government not to be pa rt of for the welsh government not to be part of the new portal that was launched today for testing? was that he decision that was run past you?” think we should distinguish between the shading of science and understanding and the sharing of policy —— sharing. some of the areas like that portal were really not discussed in detail across the four nations and so one of the issues that we had is trying to understand how in practices is working across different nations. although broad strategy has been very clearly agreed and we have discussed this four cmos and senior clinicians, there have been occasions where we would have liked, in wales, to have

a little earlier notification of some of the practical details and, i would say that that would be one of the issues. we do have an approach to testing, to testing of key workers, of course, to surveillance, some of the other issues that were involved. and so, there are some things that we need to do it, distinctly in wales and there are other things that we need to do any joined up way across the four nations and sometimes because our border, of course, as with england, with england and wales. on the point of being part of the portal or not, you are drawing a distinction, between the operational aspects and the scientific aspects. with that great question actor you can find aspects scratch my advice to the science? 0r which are regarded the administration of the testing machine as something separate?fi administration of the testing machine as something separate? it is very important for our team is moving forward. i would say that the

cmos group tends to look, we tend to look at more broad strategic issues, but the clinicians group, which includes nhs england, tends to look in more operational detail. along with colleagues from northern ireland and scotland, we became involved with that second group perhaps a little later in the epidemic, but have found it absolutely invaluable in understanding some of the operational details so, in fact, we often, in wales, get information from that source which then gives us lines to follow up on across the border in england. thank you, are you a memberof border in england. thank you, are you a member of sage?” border in england. thank you, are you a member of sage? i am not personally a member. we have a representative in sage has an observer, our chief science officer for health has been an observer in sage from a very early gd and that has been very helpful stop —— from a

very early date. he translate sage advice into advice to me. and does not provide you to have the means of visibility what has been done of at the uk level, simultaneously with england as well as scotland and northern ireland? that is a way, a portal to get information from the uk, across the four nations and it isa uk, across the four nations and it is a very valuable writ of information to us. i will go to andrew griffith and then pete wishart. thank you, mr chairman. and thank you to all the cmos for joining us. i would like to take the opportunity of thus unrivalled line—up of each to explore a little bit about your experience of the process and, in particular, scope and limitations of your advice. do you think, in your experience, when you're advising ministers or administrations, you're always sufficiently about... we believe

that committee hearing for now. it looks like it will progress for some time so we may well have more on that of the of the of the afternoon. the chief medical officer for the various nations giving evidence to the signs and technology committee. and professor chris whitty who you heard from some time ago saying that all of them are working well together and talking. we will have more on that in the next hour.

ceo of the leon chain there. we'll now give you weather prospects. this is bbc news. the headlines... the government website for key workers in england to request a coronavirus test stops taking bookings — just hours after launching — due to high demand. it was very easy to log on and register, itjust said that you would then receive a text which would take a few minutes but it might take a little bit longer if it's busy. and i've still not had a text yet so i'm assuming that they're very busy. the number of reported deaths from covid—19 in hospitals in england rises by 587 — to more than 17,000, 300. in england rises by 587 — to more than 17,300. the biggest drop in retail sales

since records began — down by more than 5% because of the coronavirus lockdown. medical experts criticise president trump, after he suggests injections of bleach might kill the coronavirus: then i see that disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. one minute. and is there a way we can do something like that? by injection inside? and, more than £27 million pounds is raised by the big night in, for charities supporting people through the pandemic.

good afternoon. the newly launched government website which allows key workers in england to register for a coronavirus test has stopped taking bookings, just hours after it went live. it was announced yesterday that up to 10 million people and members of their household will be able to request a test, and the scottish government has said it wants to put a similar system in place very soon. but a message on the website in england is already asking people to try again later. under the new plan, all key workers should be able to register for a test online, if they or a family member have virus symptoms. the tests will contribute to the government's target of adminstering 100,000 tests a day by the end of this month. thursday's figure wasjust over 23,500 although the capacity has increased to 51,000. meanwhile in the united states, the president has been lambasted by the medical community after he speculated during a news

conference, as to whether coronavirus might be treated by injecting disinfectant into the body. it led to the world's biggest manufacturer of disinfectants to issue a stark rebuttal, saying that under no circumstance should disinfectant products be administered into the human body. we'll have more on those comments from president trump in a moment but first on that expansion of testing in the uk, here's our health correspondent jane dreaper. testing is vital for tackling coronavirus. individuals need to know whether they have it and government scientists need a detailed picture about the spread of the virus. now all essential workers such as supermarket staff and care workers in england are being told they can register for a test if they or a family member have coronavirus symptoms. the government is trying to meet an ambitious goal to massively increase the level of testing within days. we have had this ramp up incapacity to test in advance of the 100,000 target at the end of next week.

currently just over 50,000 tests are available but not as many people have been coming forward as we had expected. now of course, that was a problem, but it's a good problem to have because it means we have been able to expand who can get a test faster. but this morning the government website quickly ran out of slots and anyone trying to register for a test got this message. ministers apologised and said more spaces would be available tomorrow. there are around 30 centres set up for testing if workers are able to drive to them, but there has been criticism that they are often too far away. mike is a teacher who feels unwell and he applied but didn't manage to get a testing slot this morning. it was very easy to log on and register. itjust said that you would then receive a text which would take a few minutes but it might take a bit longer if it's busy. and i've still not had a text yet so i'm assuming that they are very busy. pop—up testing stations like these

ones run by the army are also part of the push against coronavirus. there are already plans to expand testing to critical workers in wales. private sector front line workers will be included in the northern ireland programme. and the scottish government also wants key workers tested. we are working through today that system becoming operational in scotland, there's one or two practical issues we have to make sure we understand here in scotland so that it fits with our approach to testing and the systems we have in place but certainly our intention is that that will be up and running here too. the testing strategy in england also includes sending nhs staff swab kits they can use at home, and expanding that to wider groups of workers. the government has faced criticism over testing,

with accusations that its plans haven't been sufficiently quick or comprehensive. efforts to meet next week's target will be watched closely. jane dreaper, bbc news. 0ur political correspondent, jonathan blake, is in westminster. jonathan, jonathan blake, is in westminster. obviously huge that jonathan, obviously huge demand on that website from quite early doors. what is the government saying?” don't think there is any surprise that the demand for coronavirus test usually outstrip the supply at this stage given the fact that yesterday the health secretary matt hancock made the announcement that all essential workers and their households will be available for testing but there are a couple of key things to bear in mind i think to put this in context. 0ne key things to bear in mind i think to put this in context. one of them is the people that are eligible now, 10 million across the uk. secondly the fact that you are actually eligible, even if you are a key worker, only if you have come symptoms to get one of these tests, and the second thing is the

relatively small number of tests that have been made available to essential workers beyond those working in the health service and others that are already eligible. we know that now that there were 5000 home testing kits allocated this morning and within the first two minutes of that website going live there were a further 15,000 tests allocated for the dry three testing sites and there are about 13,000 of them up and running an operational now so that the government says was the allocation so far on the website will reopen for more people to book a test as and when more become available and the current daily testing capacity is about 51,000 with half of those being taken up. and the other key thing to remember is that this is perhaps a system which is being developed over time and the government's target of 100,000 tests per day still stands for the end of april. thank you very muchjonathan

for the end of april. thank you very much jonathan blake. we for the end of april. thank you very muchjonathan blake. we are going to head back to the commons, such as it is, the virtual commons because the science and technology committee is hearing evidence this afternoon. each of the nation's chief medical officers are appearing before mps. lets just listen and hear a officers are appearing before mps. letsjust listen and hear a little bit more. given that each nation is at a different place on the curve and there is a disparity across the united kingdom. starting with doctor smith. 0ne united kingdom. starting with doctor smith. one of the things that is very important is to develop the advice,.. the science, as i've said before, it tends to be the science no matter what part of the united kingdom you may be in. there is a value in also making sure that the

messaging to the public, so that the measures which have been applied are applied with consistency, and we see the right level of compliance from the right level of compliance from the public. and i think one of the things,.. once the public. and i think one of the things, .. once you the public. and i think one of the things,.. once you start to develop a mixed message to the public, there is always a risk that people will misunderstand the message and won't know in one part of the country what they are supposed to be doing, so they are supposed to be doing, so the messaging becomes very important. that is not to say that when there is the need to apply a different type of measure because of,.. that we should undertake it but we should just be very confident that it but we should just be very confident thatitis but we should just be very confident that it is the right thing for that pa rt of that it is the right thing for that part of the country to do at that point in time. in scotland we have had the benefit for this advisory group to give us a visit to general advice which we have received from the uk -- advice which we have received from the uk —— to give us additional advice to that received from the uk generally advisory services and that has generally advisory services and that ha 5 a llowe d generally advisory services and that has allowed us to make a different

approach when that is useful. there needs to be a very good reason to make sure that that was absolutely necessary because the needs of scotland in those instances were very different from the rest of the uk. so there would need to be particular differences in the circumstances of scotland ? particular differences in the circumstances of scotland? so the differences in these circumstances might be that this stage of the epidemic was just so widely different in scotland from the rest of the country that actually there was a of the country that actually there was a need to make sure that we take a different approach, or the alternative is that the approach that was taken in other parts of the uk was so different that it would be right for scotland to do that in the right for scotland to do that in the right time and as i say then we apply the scientific evidence to the scottish context to the structures that we have developed to make sure that we have developed to make sure that we have developed to make sure that we can give the right advice to ministers so that they can use their judgment in how we approach. doctor

adam? i come back to my point about, you know, broad agreement on overall strategy and then operational independence, so absolutely in wales we do feel that we have the freedom to do that and we run our own devolved health and social care system and it is an integrated system and it is an integrated system so i can mention several exa m ples of system so i can mention several examples of where the broad strategic remit has translated two different approaches. our approach to managing the shielding of the most vulnerable individuals in society had a welsh twist to it, we had a slightly different process that we followed in wales, our arrangements for distributing ppe are slightly different in wales, compared to the other countries, and indeed you are right to stress the kind of exit from lockdown because we are currently thinking about our approach to that and our first

minister has been clear that we have several tests in wales that we will apply as to how and well we can start with these measures. they relate very much to the five measures that have been announced by the secretary of state in england. there is not a huge amount of difference in strategic terms but there is some of his relational difference. so yes we do have some flexibility and that is really important to us in wales that we are able to tailor our response to the needs of the people in wales. obviously it is devolved and ministers have ultimate discretion, .. ministers have ultimate discretion,.. the ministers have ultimate discretion, .. the science ministers have ultimate discretion,.. the science is the science as gregor has said and there are important aspects as to how their local health and social care systems can operate in the different jurisdictions but i think that as we move into stepping back from whatever measures and more order i think there will be more in common then there will be different. so i

will take it across all of you and come back to you that as you said there is no difference in the science between the nations, but there may be differences in the insta nt of there may be differences in the instant of the development of the pandemic and operational differences in arrangement so these account for the difference, so we can take it from that, thank you for the answers. what surprises me a little bit is that we have our own health services but there has been no operational difference from across the united system and there has been this unified approach and i think this unified approach and i think this starts to matter now as we start to think about we are in lockdown now. i was impressed by the first minister's programme yesterday when they started to talk about the process that was involved. so we think about the specifics, the

schools in scotland, for example, the holidays are different than the re st of the holidays are different than the rest of the united kingdom. if there would be just a temptation just to fall into line just because it would seem to be the right thing to do with what's happening in england and the rest of the united kingdom because it is a bigger partner and if there is a sense that initially the united states kingdom and is a different stage coming out of this it would have to be all agreed by every senior bow before certain steps were ta ken every senior bow before certain steps were taken out of coming out of lockdown. again, i would just restate that being guided by the science seems very important and where there are differences and approaches between the countries because of operational considerations i have already stated that there may be some nuances between the different countries, those will be taken into account. i think that's where it becomes really important so that not only is the scientific advice which is provided to the politicians and the ministers

but the way that then that is interpreted for the context of the country that the advice has been given becomes really critical. i go back to the point that that is why we have the cmo advisory group so that we are able to take that scientific evidence and apply it to the scottish context and are considerations that we will have in this country. thank you we will ask professor whitty in his capacity as an adviser to the government. did sage give advice to the government on the target of 100,000 tests a day? well, sage did not give that specific target sto p sage did not give that specific target stop sage has consistently said andi target stop sage has consistently said and i have consistently said that one of the things we need to do is have greater capacity to test across the whole of the uk and that isiam across the whole of the uk and that is i am glad to say now happening,

so the aim to increase it would absolutely be joined not just so the aim to increase it would absolutely be joined notjust by sage but be clear by all public health bodies and all ministers so i don't think that is pretty much a difference there. i don't think the main difference is how fast could this increase happen but the actual number was not a specific number made by sage specifically but the general structure is that actually saves things that are quite of things to be done with testing and that therefore it is increasingly important for several reasons. does sage have a view as to what the volume of testing should be? there is obviously interaction between what is desirable and what is operationally possible. how is that discussion reflected. sage had a view, is in fact developing a view at the moment about what the optimal number... maximum amount of antigen testing and indeed antibody testing,

there is a different answer is, i can stand on that if you like, under a number of different scenarios, but the base case that everybody agrees that has to be done which includes allowing critical workers to be tested certainly includes greater testing within hospitals for people who don't currently have symptoms, for example people who might be coming in, and greater testing within care homes. what we are trying to do is get that basic numberand trying to do is get that basic number and then also built on top of that loss are the other things that we could use it for under a number of different ways of running the next stage of the epidemic which is going to be a long one. —— build on top of that what at the other things we could use it for. this is going to be different advice for the four nations but it will be about what invite broadly the numbers could end up invite broadly the numbers could end up being like if we get to an optimal number but we have not got toa optimal number but we have not got to a point where we have finally got

a number on this. lots of trust is clearly being placed in the science, we hear this from the witnesses this morning. all of the governments have made clear commitment in guided by the science and science proceeds through openness and sometimes dispute as we have heard already this morning. it's very important, it seems, to be that we should keep the faith in the science that is being... that is informing decisions by prime ministers, and there has been a publication of the evidence base that sage has drawn on to give advice, it is the scientific by supporting the government's response, on the website says that the page will be updated on a regular basis with the latest evidence of provided to sage. the

latest evidence on the website was provided... weeks ago. i vote you to ask whether that be supplemented with the recent evidence so that we could understand it and ask questions. it is really a reason why five weeks on from the last publication of evidence the papers for which advice has been given should not be available for... firstly, in this particular scenario, and i will come back to a caveat for this, in this particular crisis there is no reason why it should not be available. there is a number of things which i probably will say. the first is a practical one which obviously is a dust english former cabinet minister yourself you will appreciate which

is that advice should be given to ministers first rather than a continual kind of churn of stuff —— isa continual kind of churn of stuff —— is a distinguished former cabinet minister. advice is very fast and i don't think there is much of a binary. there are i have to say morsels of operational things, there is practical thing is that sage team is practical thing is that sage team is actually under huge pressure that leads in, and the final thing is that quite a lot of the things that come to sage have come in a very early stage of development and in ordinary academics circumstances you would not put that out until it has been peer—reviewed and brought into a finalform been peer—reviewed and brought into a final form and been peer—reviewed and brought into a finalform and in many places got through the publication process and that has also provided a delay in some circumstances and as a scientist i have to say i think that is right, you do not as a scientist wish to throw out... we need to get things in an incredibly timely way in sage but we do not want to get

out and put into the public domain stuff that has not been peer—reviewed and previewed in the normal way for proper critique. he is absolutely committed to publishing things on a regular cycle and you can see that cycle fine but i think as always try not to promise on these things and absolutely everything will be on the website after this is over and ideally we'll update it all away along. so i fully accept the general principle you are making but we need to just be realistic about those reasons why you are not going to get every single paper published the next day for a combination of reasons. i do wa nt to for a combination of reasons. i do want to add one additional caveat and that is that sage is dealing with something which is a straight science to policy question. the last time there was an sage thing was the poisonings in salisbury. there was absolutely no way we were going to

put those documents in the public domain. and i have also been involved previously in sage meetings where some of the information was a classified level and some of it was not so again there is going to be a mixture. the point of this is wherever possible we should absolutely be putting the data out and we should be trying to do the underlying workings but with those practical things just underlying workings but with those practical thingsjust to underlying workings but with those practical things just to be realistic about them. if you ask the average academic how long it takes them... between theirfirst average academic how long it takes them... between their first draft of them... between their first draft of the paper on the one that actually gets published after a peer review a month is a short time. everyone would understand the reservations and infact would understand the reservations and in fact the impossibility of publishing matters which reflect on matters of national security but would it not be a source of this concern if a paper were not ready for publication, were not fit to be

put in the public domain, but was nevertheless used as a basis for an informed decision being made. this goes back absolutely to an important point you made earlier on which is one of the things you do with earlier drafts as you put a greater degree of uncertainty and see where if the same thing has gone through peer review and got into its final form. that is actually part of what you actually say which is people working through the night because this is a crisis, and they have done a really terrificjob, but they're going to clean this up, it is going to go go through peer review, and probably the paper it finally will end up slightly different to this one, but that's part of a job to give the right degree of confidence or lack of confidence or uncertainty around something so we can say we are around something so we can say we a re really around something so we can say we are really confident we are confident in this to some degree so thatis confident in this to some degree so that is part of the process. i expect people that are scientist listening to this or other academics will fully appreciate the point

they're making. thank you. you have looked sort of picked up on a theme that i want to ask about. i would like to talk about transparency in the medical advice. specifically, doctor smith, g think it is important that scotland's covid—19 advisory group publishes the membership of the group and also its minutes? clearly the decision was taken to minutes? clearly the decision was ta ken to publish minutes? clearly the decision was taken to publish both the membership and the minute and that is consistent with the approach that we have taken with government since i started working with the scottish government in 2012 so it doesn't seem unusual in that sense, it was right for the scottish context, for the scottish group at that point in time andi the scottish group at that point in time and i don't think we should read anything more intimate than that. are you aware of any instances of lobbying or security issues in

the public actually being aware of the public actually being aware of the membership of that group?” the public actually being aware of the membership of that group? i have not been made aware of any instances such as that, no. my next question is to profess whitty. i contend that the membership of sage still remains -- iq the membership of sage still remains —— iq content that the membership of sage still remains secret? neither of us have any problem in principle within names being made public, many people talk about their own working sage perfectly legitimately, but we we re sage perfectly legitimately, but we were given quite clear advice from the central protection of national infrastructure basically based on the fact that sage is a subcommittee of cobra and needs under a range of circumstances some of which are very security —related, this is not, that

the principle needed to be thought through quite carefully. absolutely no barrierfor me through quite carefully. absolutely no barrier for me from through quite carefully. absolutely no barrierfor me from sir through quite carefully. absolutely no barrier for me from sir patrick in principle. and the idea that it is secret i think is rather strong. i think it is not published but i think most of the members are known one hour way or another another and all of the subcommittees are...” ta ke all of the subcommittees are...” take your point about national security and there are situations where the numb membership needs to be kept off the record was certainly in the climate where we have a national health emergency do you not think it would be quite conducive to the free flow of information and actually boosting the confidence on the advice coming out if people actually knew where the information was actually knew where the information was coming from and he was making this decision is? i have given you a rather long version of the word yes andi rather long version of the word yes and i will give you the short version, yes but we have to take the advice that we are given, but my view is yes. is there a

consideration of some of the economic impacts and measures being taken as part of sage? was not addressed to me? yes. if you mean does sage have a specific economic group, no it doesn't. do some of the things that have been done have economic consequences, yes absolutely they do, and i think that there is a very legitimate question as to in what format, and this is one that patrick might have a view one that patrick might have a view on as well, in what format is it best to bring together the science which includes the medical science and technology, social science, behavioural sciences and so on, and the economics. is it through the sage mechanism or is it you bring them together in a different

mechanism and that is a very different, this is a very real example where that is being tested, and if it would be useful i can lay out what i think at the strengths and weaknesses of either side but it is not a clear cut it definitely should go one way or another. would it be useful for me to lay that out? is there for example an economist or several economists on stage at the moment? know there aren't because thatis moment? know there aren't because that is not part of the advice that we are giving. the advice is going to the government but it is not all going from sage. al rolled back on that, there is one economist from the treasury who is an excellent economists, but these sage advice is not economic advice so although she can actually feeding important eden sites including important insights on any point because she comes from a different disciplinary and intellectual background that is very useful, sage is not giving economic

advice at the moment and is not constituting any economic advice. if you did try to turn it into a body which did give economic advice she would need to have a different membership for that bit of advice because they cover membership of sage i would not feel comfortable and they would not feel comfortable giving economic advice, it is not its current make up. so currently sage is an advisory group on the medical and ecological aspects of the crisis? well it is covering everything from immunology through behavioural sciences through epidemiology and modelling through general public health. there is a very large range of things that is doing but the bit it is not currently doing is the economic bit and that is explicit, it is not that people think it is not important, they do, but it has to be done really well and it would need a different membership to do that, and

the question as it does that expand it out to make it such a large group thatis it out to make it such a large group that is is almost impossible for it to do what it is already doing which is covering quite a large amount of things. lets talk about some of the non—pharmaceutical interventions that have been taken including the pats are lifting some of the restrictions that i think it is understood by everyone that the economic impact is not confined itself to in isolation, because it has an impact on public health, it has an impact on public health, it has an impact on public health, it has an impact on people's experience across the country of this, so is there other steps being taken given that this is the phase of the pandemic in which we could at least anticipate needing to make those decisions? is their work under way to convene a body that will be capable of giving advice drawing on the strengths of experts in these disciplines? can i kind of divide

that into two questions? the first one is that there is... and one of the things i have tried to say several times in public and will say again here is that in terms of looking at just at the public again here is that in terms of looking atjust at the public health there are four forms of major negative impact on health, just narrowly help that this epidemic is going to have. this direct deaths from people dying of cobit with the nhs working well. there are indirect deaths if the nhs got overwhelmed, which it has not been due to the fantastic work of all of the public is one of the absolutely remarkable work of the nhs but that is the second one from the emergency services. the third one is the indirect deaths caused by downscaling other health issues, public health issues, elective surgery where health problems that you might want to come back to are probably going to come back where people have delayed stuff put stuff hasn't been picked up with or dealt with early ea as it would otherwise

have been. the final one and it is absolutely within the cobra sage is that as we all know there is a relationship between health and deprivation and if as a result of economic downturns for prolonged periods that will have a health effect. that bit specifically sage has looked at specifically because thatis has looked at specifically because that is a really clear part of the health metric but there is also advice coming into the ministers into cabinet, into number ten and others which actually is very much on the economic side. it is constituted through a different mechanism and you can argue about whether these stage mechanism could be replicated on that side, i don't feel the need to ask that because i'm notan feel the need to ask that because i'm not an economist, it is entirely a question and that advice and i have seen some of that advice, not all of it, and not a lot of it, don't feel confident really to do more than read it and understand it, that advice is very much invigorated

with the science medical more than these other things that come through sage. —— very much integrated. i'm grateful and the committee wants to know the demands of the economy and that is important. we in the public in general a strong supportive in steps being taken for the best scientific advice possible. i think, many respects, it would be helpful for confidence to be to see, for example, the papers in which scientific advice is given. to know who the members of sage, subject to any security concerns for any of the individuals. and to refer to the example. to be

able to see the minutes published so that we can know whether, when the government maintains that it is following scientific advice and actually the advice that has been given. ido actually the advice that has been given. i do think that the confidence that the public housing signs will not be damaged by transparency, but actually, in keeping with the tradition of science —— that the confidence the public has in signs will not be damaged by transparency. i think thatis damaged by transparency. i think that is in keeping with our best traditions. i agree. i am that is in keeping with our best traditions. iagree. iam grateful. let's reflect how that can apply the next stage. let me go to my colleague graham. chair, can i ask professor whitty is not a point about transparency that quite

legitimately members of sage will have outside interests, they will have outside interests, they will have scratch might be consultants for different pharmaceutical companies, have other business interests. to be not have the right to know that? that is standard advice when these people come before the select committee is a right academic papers. it might affect their advice. within the sage process itself, certainly, we would ta ke process itself, certainly, we would take in account of public interest. this is a bit in tough, important variant of the question each has just asked which is the chair has asked for and we, in principle, agree that there should be openness and in this particular setting, this international security emergency, there is not really a strong counterargument from a scientific point of view, but we absolutely have to take the advice of... we are as sage, sits on top of multiple

other committees, which feeding and then a much wider academic efforts that are behind this, but to the sage mechanism in the setting, there is no particular reason, in my view for secrecy, per se, but is no particular reason, in my view forsecrecy, perse, buti is no particular reason, in my view for secrecy, per se, but i do accept that increases the risk of lobbying, but openness is important. any sense, i agree. great, thank you. when the policy moved from mitigation to suppression, this committee was giving quite frightening figures about the numbers of people who might die from covid—19. but where similar figures produced for the collateral damage that might be caused? i mean, you have just been through the ways that

people can die through this or the causes of death through this crisis. what equivalent figures —— where equipment figures looked at when the change of policy had happened? firstly, to clarify because i think this is something which gets repeatedly reported inaccurately in media reports. what we are trying to do at the moment is a sense of the third stage, contain if it's containable and then delay, and then, at a certain point mitigate. mitigate means stopping the nhs being overwhelmed and that is what a lot of what we're trying to do is at the moment, whether you call it suppression or mitigation, it is stopping the nhs being overwhelmed and that is a policy we have and a policy we are always likely to have because that is absolutely critical for reasons that are obvious to absolutely all your peers. but, and this goes to the heart of —— all

your viewers. this goes to the heart of many of the difficulties of decisions about, for example, timing. if you view the question of when you should start to do these, reducing the covid peak, just as if it is absolutely no harm. that is all you have to do. then you have a slightly different answer if you say, let's balance multiple different things across multiple different things across multiple different areas. what we did not have was a very precise... we now have was a very precise... we now have a much better understanding of what the potential spread elsewhere, but our view was, for a short period, the impact of the secondary effects were likely to be significantly smaller, broadly, but this was a relatively qualitative, not quantitative, and if we had not brought in measures which were necessary to get the force of transmission below one. and what we needed to do was get the force of

transmission below one or the nhs would have been around. i think in going to the next stage, the question asked, which is now let's try and put some figures on how the different things play out, are going to be quite important and some initial analysis has been done. it has not been fully completed, but we absolutely are looking at the question.. thank you. the question actually asked was whether those figures were looked out at the beginning of this process. we now have some of the figures for what is happening in the nhs and more generally. we know, unfortunately, — — fortunately that generally. we know, unfortunately, —— fortunately that amd has not been overwhelmed. however other areas have been underwhelmed —— a&e.

consultants to people suspected of cancer, visits have reduced by two thirds. a group who go through all sorts of medical statistics like that. —— we can go through all sorts of medical statistics like that and i want to know if that was looked at and beginning in a statistical way in the way that you approach the main problem of covid—19 and whether you're looking at it in detail now? in terms of whether that looked at in statistical terms beforehand, no because we didn't have data. we thought we could do that with. but we absolutely took the general point into account. i think there are two bits of it, one of which was measurable, from beforehand, which is reducing, deliberately reducing, the elective care. but to the other side, which has really been a really clear in terms of people's behaviours, but i do not think was a

predictable beforehand, it was not predictable beforehand, it was not predictable in any quantitative way, where people's responses on the emergency side and we are very worried about this. i have made this point in press conferences for that reason. to say to people, look, what everybody has done, what the nhs have done, is to keep the emergency service running always with capacity throughout this whole thing. that has been the critical thing, one of the critical things that has been achieved, as well as pulling down the total number of covid deaths. i know we have to look at the data —— now we have the data. what you say things like emergency admissions. in england and scotland, do not have details, gone down from just over 18,000 tojust a bit details, gone down from just over 18,000 to just a bit over 10,000, details, gone down from just over 18,000 tojust a bit over 10,000, so a 41% reduction in a&e attendance has gone down. —— and a&e attendance has gone down. —— and a&e attendance has gone down. things which are not emergencies, but are urgent, like

cancer rates have gone down. this is one of the things we need to be clear about is that we have the capacity for emergencies now, we had it all the way through this and that is the achievement of the nhs and the whole population, but we also need to think now seriously about how to minimise the amount of time by which we have got this urgent, but not emergencies stuff and make sure that it is moving back up to the appropriate levels. nhs england are working a lot on this. we now have real data, rather than estimated data. we are going to go tojeremy estimated data. we are going to go to jeremy hunt. just estimated data. we are going to go tojeremy hunt. just pick on something you have said, professor, you have talked about a force of the transmission. any press conference a couple of days ago, you said that we cannot allow the force of transmission to go above a one for any extended period at any point in this and that determines what we do in terms of the social distance measures. how do you measure? so

just for those, i know chair you know that, but for those who are not useless, arrr is a very simple concept, if —— r as a base tour is exponentially growing. it is anything above one. if it is below one, as it is now due to the work that they will population has done, it is falling away. left to its own devices, if we did nothing, the letter i would not actually go back above one again. —— the r. we are measuring it offensively indirectly through hospital admissions, i see you admissions, and much more,

sadly, are people dying of this disease. it is beginning to be around... a process in which the onusis around... a process in which the onus is doing, where they're going to be something in random sampling of the population across the uk is, sending out swabs to people who have volunteered and people are going to send back their swabs and we are going to do this repeatedly so that we can actually get notjust the slightly delayed situation when people reach hospital, but much earlier when people first exhibit symptoms or, indeed, they have the virus without any symptoms at all. the aim of this is to have a much more direct and accurate and, importantly, earlier measure of r so that if it starts creeping up towards or above one way we know that it earlier and can take action. this will be crucial if it is one of the tests that government catchment governs where restrictions can be lifted. when will that a new means of estimating without the timeline

of estimating without the timeline of hospital admissions? will be there in time turn for the decision ina few there in time turn for the decision in a few weeks' time? as i said, ons is contacting people, i think today from my knowledge, and people will have things sent out to them over the weekend, as i'm told, start to get results for the first week. that gives us where we are now, not the r. it is the repeated nature of looking at this overtime. you can suck to see, are the numbers expanding, —— you can start to see, are the numbers expanding, retreating or staying the same? which expect to publish the newly derived r figure? we will not get it on this for this week, but the process has started. we can still derived r now, but it is looking further back in time and this direct measurement is a better measure of how to do it. once you have actually started to get the repeats data will

be coming in from next week, when the ons and public health people feel the data is ready to publish, i do not have a date for under do not wa nt to do not have a date for under do not want to put a date in the public domain which is wrong. i do expect it to be relatively soon. quite when the data will be secure enough to give a number, i do not want to admit to. jeremy hunt. some questions for professor whitty. i would like to thank you for your billing work in this crisis and i was billing work in this crisis and i was lucky to benefit from those insights when i was health secretary. you said earlier in the session that you have been pushing foran session that you have been pushing for an expansion in our testing capacity. you have also said we can learn from germany which got a head—on testing early. ijust wonder if you think that is one of the reasons why their death rates are so

much lower than ours, france, spain and italy. my views being able test is multiple things you can do which you cannot do otherwise and absolutely no doubt operationally germany when a head of the uk and, indeed, most other countries. i think that drawing a straight line between testing more and better outcomes is a lot harder and i think that people make a rather simplistic kind of, if you can test more, you can get for your. it is simply a a tool that can allow you to do other things. if you do a lodgment of undirected testing, it really will not help particularly at all. —— a large amount of testing. germany has done a greatjob in terms of the weight has this. the way it has controlled this. talking to cou nterpa rts controlled this. talking to

counterparts around the world, this morning obstruct my counterparts in italy. when asked if they thought we we re italy. when asked if they thought we were doing well, the short answer was, i don't know. one of the components of that was testing. i fully a cce pt components of that was testing. i fully accept that having the ability to test allows for a better response, absolutely. that is the reason for having it, butjust to draw a straight line, as well, seiner testing people leads to better outcomes, that would not be correct. justin and a couple of quick ones. on the 5th of march, professor whitty, you told the health select committee that it was important not to lock down too early. and i wondered, did you continue to advise that we should not be knocking down right up until the 24th of march when we did our national lockdown? firstly, the a nswer national lockdown? firstly, the answer is no. secondly, what we did,

andi answer is no. secondly, what we did, and i think people have... there is and i think people have... there is a pre—lockdown and there is locked in. in fact, a pre—lockdown and there is locked in. infact, multiple a pre—lockdown and there is locked in. in fact, multiple things happened in stages all the way through that month. as sage advise that different things were brought m, that different things were brought in, starting with the ones that had big impacts, but almost no negative downsides. people may laugh at things like washing hands, but they we re things like washing hands, but they were a lot more effectively than a lot more draconian measures. the first of those was individual isolation, followed by household insulation and shielding, then into strong recommendations about people working from home and then on to closing schools, pubs and clubs and so on. and then on to find lockdown. it was... there were various points along the way. each one of which was advised by sage. that that was the thing to do. and the difficult question with this was firstly, what

is the right combination to do and the second was what is the exact timing by which they should happen? and i note in the last week, that i and my colleagues have been berated by one set of professors any newspaper before going to let and another professor and another for doing too much to la and, in reality, we will come in due course, have to go back —— too much too late. but what we did, we did this stage, phased approach all the way through march, basically from quite early on in march through to the final lockdown on the 23rd.” suppose my last question on this, chair, ifi suppose my last question on this, chair, if i may, is the thing i think it's difficult to understand is that point on the 24th of march, the analysis showed that the number of people with the disease was a doubling every five days. so if you

had done that two weeks earlier, you would potentially have more than halved the number of people who got the disease and ijust wonder what the disease and ijust wonder what the rationale was for not going a bit earlier with the heavier measures, given what we saw came later? this is one of those ones where... i later? this is one of those ones where. .. i can later? this is one of those ones where... i can give an incredibly long answer which will take the rest of the session going through the discussions that were in sage. this is an area where it is unbelievably easy to be facile, if i'm honest. i'm not saying you're doing this, but some of the commentary any press is saying, actually, have you thought this through? and to go back toa thought this through? and to go back to a previous question, have you thought through the downsides? just in that a health terms, leaving aside anything else, getting it right between two early and too late was a very difficultjudgment call. this thing moved, actually, very fast and you talked about a doubling time of five days. the time that it

was moving quickly was in fact shorter than that so it moved really quite quickly. there was a point... the part that was followed was one that we... predicting. the speed of u pta ke that we... predicting. the speed of uptake was a bit faster than i thought, enough to be appreciable. i think that is clear from even a sage date already at their and other ones. the difference was one of relatively small degree —— sage d'etat. in that window of time between early march and late march. and this will be gone over multiple times, but i think the end of the epidemic is ability time, frankly, to do this properly any technical way and any nonpartisan way. thank you, i way and any nonpartisan way. thank you, lam way and any nonpartisan way. thank you, i am going to go to darren jones and then karen fletcher. thank you, chair. my first question is a short one to professor whitty about

the lifting of restrictions on a regional level, as opposed to a national level. i am regional level, as opposed to a national level. lam bristol mp regional level, as opposed to a national level. i am bristol mp and we have been blessed with a roller sketch make lower infection rate and death rate than other parts of the country. it is clearly a critical question and my other cmo colleagues will want to comment from the other three nations perspective, i am sure,. in terms of the uk as a whole, the thing to remember is it is fantastic that the south—west has had a less severe experience, still a bad experience, of this epidemic to date, to date. than other parts of the country. your point is absolutely correct in terms of the epidemiology. the thing to understand with this epidemic is, firstly, that the peak that we are

going to at the moment is an artificial peak, almost the same everywhere, as the result of what people did in terms of starting with all those various measures i was talking about in the last interchange. starting with things like self isolation. because those happened across the country at roughly the same time, that peak is occurring at broadly the same time around the country, not exactly the same, but the difference is relatively small. but, this is important but, to go from where we are now to r above one, even if it is not above one by a lot, that is possible everywhere in the country and we are confident that the great majority of the population have not had covered, in your area and every other area of the uk, and therefore you the ability for this to take off again any really second serious wave if we are not careful is absolutely

possible. if you put those two together, the argument for a strong regional variation in what we do is not a terribly convincing one. whether their arguments for milder variation is something not requite now, but there is not a situation where you can say with confidence as, for example... we are going to leave the science parliamentary committee for now. meeting with some very interesting evidence for the chief medical officers for all the four nations. i am sure you know professor chris whitty, some fascinating comments from him about so much as ever. a lot of questions about lockdown towards the end there. i thought it was so interesting that he said, at one point, just remember hand washing is still so important. hand washing works better than some of the many more draconian measures that we are all talking about. and we are all, given the way we are living at the moment, somewhat obsessed with. so

the figures that came through well we we re the figures that came through well we were listening to the committee there, sadly 684 further deaths overnight. very sadly, people dying across the uk with coronavirus. we are edging up to 4pm and our continuing coverage and the daily news briefing is coming up in the next little while as well. stay with us for that. just one of the story to sadly bring. in the last half an hour or so we have heard very sadly of the death of the journalist and former bbc presenter lynne faulds wood. she presented watchdog, from 1985 to 1993, alongside her husband john stapleton and at the family issuing a statement this afternoon. they say she died peacefully a

little earlier today after having suffered a massive stroke last night. her husband and her son were at her side. lynne faulds wood, who has died at the age of 72. i believe you with look at the weather prospects. hello. well, the fine april weather is going to continue into the weekend. i know most of us are at home, but at least it's good to know that the weather is going to hold if we pop out briefly for exercise, for a walk or maybe a little quick nip to the shop for essentials. this is what it looks like on the satellite image. you can see across much of england, wales and scotland, it's clear blue skies, a little bit more cloud there across parts of ireland through the course of the day. now, these are the temperatures. late afternoon, still into the low 20s across the south and the south—east, even nudging up high teens and 20 degrees there in the lowlands of scotland. tonight, the skies are going to clear. it is going to be quite nippy

and in fact, by the time the day ends, we could even have one or two showers across the south—west of the uk. these are the temperatures early on saturday morning so nippy in some spots, three degrees, but milder there in the south—west, around ten celsius. and tomorrow, we do it all over again, at least most of us — another fine warm day, but there will be a little bit more cloud across eastern areas, and again, a chance of catching one or two showers there. not a big chance because most of us, of course, are at home still, but across wales and the south—west, it mightjust sort of go over your house and give a garden a little watering. your garden a little watering. now, as we go through the course of sunday, a low pressure, a weak low pressure with the weather front moves across the north of the country so that means slightly fresher air from the north atlantic for scotland and northern ireland and also the possibility of increasing amounts of cloud. nothing, generally speaking, across more northern parts of the uk. there's an increasing chance of cloud and some showers, but still a warm day across the south and the south—east

on sunday, 22 degrees. now next week, we start to see a shift in the wind direction so the winds start to come in from the norwegian sea, certainly spreading across scotland, much of ireland into northern england as well. this is a cool front here, which will bring down the temperatures a little bit for some of our northern cities. i think down by a few degrees, at least, for places like newcastle by the time we get to monday, down to maybe 12 celsius, but still holding on to some of that warmth in the south. the clouds are lurking and actually into tuesday and wednesday, we're expecting more clouds across the uk and a chance of some showers. bye— bye.

this is bbc news. the headlines... the government website for key workers in england to request a coronavirus test stops taking bookings just hours after launching due to high demand. it was very easy to log on and register, itjust said that you would then receive a text which would take a few minutes but it might take a little bit longer if it's busy. and i've still not had a text yet so i'm assuming that they're very busy. the number of reported deaths from covid—19 in uk hospitals rises by 684 — to more than 19,500. the biggest drop in retail sales since records began — down by more than 5% because of the coronavirus lockdown. medical experts criticise president trump, after he suggests

injections of bleach might kill the coronavirus: then i see that disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. one minute. and is there a way we can do something like that? by injection inside? and, more than £27 million is raised by the big night in, for charities supporting people through the pandemic. good afternoon. the newly launched government website which allows key workers in england to register for a coronavirus test has

stopped taking bookings, just hours after it went live. it was announced yesterday that up to 10 million people and members of their household will be able to request a test, and the scottish government has said it wants to put a similar system in place very soon. but a message on the website in england is already asking people to try again later. under the new plan, all key workers should be able to register for a test online, if they or a family member have virus symptoms. the tests will contribute to the government's target of adminstering 100,000 tests a day by the end of this month. thursday's figure wasjust over 23,500 — although the capacity has increased to 51,000. meanwhile in the united states, the president has been lambasted by the medical community after he speculated during a news conference, whether coronavirus might be treated by injecting disinfectant into the body. it led to the world's biggest manufacturer of disinfectants to issue this stark rebuttal,

saying that under no circumstance should disinfectant products be administered into the human body. we'll have more on those comments from president trump in a moment but first on that expansion of testing in the uk, here's our health correspondent jane dreaper. testing is vital for tackling coronavirus. individuals need to know whether they have it and government scientists need a detailed picture about the spread of the virus. now all essential workers such as supermarket staff and care workers in england are being told they can register for a test if they or a family member have coronavirus symptoms. the government is trying to meet an ambitious goal to massively increase the level of testing within days. we have had this ramp up incapacity to test in advance of the 100,000 target at the end of next week. currently just over 50,000 tests are available but not as many people have been coming forward as we had expected. now of course, that was a problem,

but it's a good problem to have because it means we have been able to expand who can get a test faster. but this morning the government website quickly ran out of slots and anyone trying to register for a test got this message. ministers apologised and said more spaces would be available tomorrow. there are around 30 centres set up for testing if workers are able to drive to them, but there has been criticism that they are often too far away. mike is a teacher who feels unwell and he applied but didn't manage to get a testing slot this morning. it was very easy to log on and register. itjust said that you would then receive a text which would take a few minutes but it might take a bit longer if it's busy. and i've still not had a text yet so i'm assuming that they are very busy. pop—up testing stations like these ones run by the army are also part

of the push against coronavirus. there are already plans to expand testing to critical workers in wales. private sector front line workers will be included in the northern ireland programme. and the scottish government also wants key workers tested. we are working through today that system becoming operational in scotland, there's one or two practical issues we have to make sure we understand here in scotland so that it fits with our approach to testing and the systems we have in place but certainly our intention is that that will be up and running here too. the testing strategy in england also includes sending nhs staff swab kits they can use at home, and expanding that to wider groups of workers. the government has faced criticism over testing, with accusations that its plans haven't been sufficiently quick or comprehensive. efforts to meet next week's target will be watched closely. jane dreaper, bbc news. retail sales fell by more than 5% last month, the biggest drop since records began — a result of the coronavirus lockdown. sales of clothing were particularly badly hit.

but food shopping increased — and alcohol sales were up by 31%. our business correspondent emma simpson reports. they call it the happiness shop, but there is little to smile about for this small gift store in carmarthen. it was doing well until coronavirus struck. like most of the high street, it's had to temporarily shut. in the two weeks in the run up to lockdown we were down 24% on last year and then obviously since we have closed the doors we've had nothing coming on as a result of the shop being closed. coronavirus is having an unprecedented impact on retail. here in the supermarket aisles we bought a record amount of groceries last month. food sales were up by 10% thanks to panic buying. sales of alcohol soared 31% at off—licences. but that wasn't enough to offset the huge fall in clothing sales, a drop of 35%. other goods were down too.

fashion's taken a hammering. retailers had been pinning their hopes on a strong spring season, but with high streets deserted, sales have collapsed, and many businesses are under enormous financial pressure. this one's in administration, along with sister brand oasis. other well—known names have also collapsed and there will be store closures at debenhams too. the coronavirus has come in with a crushing effect in terms of nonessential purchases, the non—food purchases, as the buyer is very aware of the economic effect, notjust now, but ongoing. so this is going to have significant effect, not just in the lockdown period, but as those brands look ahead in the weeks and months ahead, how can they get a buyer to purchase when their appetite is simply not there? b&q has just reopened half its stores with social distancing measures in place. there's certainly healthy demand for diy goods right now, but retailers fear the economic pain will last well beyond the end

of lockdown, whenever that will be. emma simpson, bbc news. it's exactly one month since the prime minister announced the current lockdown measures, which are designed to save lives and protect the nhs. but are people following the rules? the national rural crime network says confusion about the exercise guidelines is contributing to a rise in the number of people heading to beauty spots, and the organisation says it's resulted in increased tension in rural areas. police say they will use discretion and judgment in deciding how to respond, as claire marshall reports. polzeath in cornwall yesterday. it could be on a postcard. but look through the lens of a world locked down by a global pandemic, and you may see something very different. these kayakers had to be rescued last week, drifting out to sea, the lifeboat cleaned and disinfected. we don't want our lifeboat crews, who once they are launched

on a shout, once they respond to their pagers, have no choice of social distancing, they have to come together, sit together in a small lifeboat, in a confined space, to rescue anybody, whoever that might be, with whatever disease or infection they may have. but these days, exercise is so vital for physical and mental health, the guidance has been relaxed, it's confusing. i think it's pretty vague. like, government guidelines have said you shouldn't be allowed in the sea, however the council and everyone else know this is a community. when you're in the sea, you can easily keep a safe distance apart from everybody. most people do seem to be respecting the key message to stay at home. the tourist honeypot of scarborough is still quiet. but could this be changing? we are seeing increased numbers of vehicles on the roads. and we are definitely seeing more people out and about in communities, creating i think, enhanced tension in communities where communities are saying, actually, we thought

this had been resolved. residents of a little parish on the somerset levels definitely feel it's not being resolved. 200, 300, 400 people a day come through. valerie naughton, who's lived here for 40 years, says she's recording more and more people choosing to come here. for them, they are getting away from it all. we do not know how it's being spread, we don't know who's got it and who hasn't, and with all these people, not only for theirselves, but us in the parish, we are an older generation and we do feel very strongly that we're isolating ourselves and we feel why are they not? in one hour, we recorded at least 60 people exercising. but duncan believes he's not hurting anyone. if i was walking, i'd have to pass people so what do you do? how do you get your exercise, then? you tell me. we are all so different. we have different needs and priorities and our view

of what's reasonable is different. and trying to write rules that are seen as being fair to everyone in such a short space of time is almost impossible and it does seem that the clarity of that stay—at—home message is being blurred, just as everyone gets sick of the lockdown. it looks like it will be another lovely weekend. the question is, will the lure of freedom and fresh air be too much to resist? claire marshall, bbc news. president trump has been criticised by medical experts for suggesting that injections of disinfectant might kill the coronavirus. donald trump raised the idea at his daily white house briefing, where he also queried whether ultra violet light might have a role in treating covid—19. his comments came after preliminary us government research suggested the virus dies more quickly when exposed to sunlight and heat. caroline hawley reports:

it is still the epicentre of the pandemic. in new york, the spread of coronavirus has, at last, started to slow. but the number of cases across this vast country continues to rise. more than 50,000 americans have now died of the disease. that is approaching the number killed in the vietnam war. at the start of the pandemic, president trump predicted it could all be over come the summer. research is underway by the department of homeland security on the effects of sunlight and heat on the virus, prompting this from the president. the question that probably some of you are thinking of, if you are totally into that world, which i find to be very interesting, so, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it's ultraviolet orjust very powerful light, and i think you said that hasn't been checked but you're

going to test it. and then i said, supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. the scientists who leads america's response to the pandemic could barely conceal her thoughts on the president's idea. not as a treatment. i mean, certainly fever is a good thing, when you have a fever it helps your body respond. but not as...|'ve not seen heat or light... but mr trump had other suggestions up his sleeve. and then i see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. one minute. and is there a way we can do something like that? by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. because as you see, it gets in the lungs and does a tremendous number on the lungs. so it would be interesting to check that. so that you're going to have to use medical doctors. his comments caused an immediate outcry. from the medical community to makers of disinfectant, there have been expressions of alarm. we would strongly advise against anything like that, under any circumstance. our products are backed by science and years of research but they're not made for internal use, they're made for the intended

purpose, which, largely, is for surface disinfection. to suggest that you can sort of inject or drink detergent and you'll get rid of it is complete nonsense and actually quite dangerous. so i think it is very worrying that some people might take his words literally. in washington, outside the trump international hotel, protesters showed what they think of their president and his handling of this unprecedented crisis. caroline hawley, bbc news. the labour party is carrying out a review into why the coronavirus pandemic is disproportionately affecting black, asian and minority ethnic people. baroness doreen lawrence has been appointed by the party leader sir keir starmer to lead the inquiry, as the latest statistics suggest people from ethnic minority backgrounds account for more than a third of critically ill patients, and the most deaths

among health workers. the government has also commissioned an investigation, to be led by public health england. rianna croxford reports. my father is a very proud man of his roots injamaica. always talks of his memories in jamaica. all the time. known by his loved ones as rex, died of suspected coronavirus in a care home in coventry on monday. his son charlie is one of many families desperate for answers. it's been very difficult. very difficult. as a family. you know, we need to know if, you know, what ourfather died of. it's still not clear why people from black, asian, ethnic minority community seem to be a greater risk of becoming seriously ill with coronavirus. or why the majority of health care workers who have died have been

from these backgrounds. today, the labour party started its review to find answers, the bbc satin. we have 15 different bame organisations represented on a zoom call, hearing from them about their experience. the fact that the first ten doctors who died were all from black and ethnic minority backgrounds. the key figures coming out time and again art ppe, not adequate, not the black and ethnic minority staff saying this, they are being pushed to the forefront. three and five deaths are now due to covid—19. baroness lawrence is leading the labour party inquiry. our voices are not being heard. we need to be able to come together like this. and say this is what is happening within the community, this is what we need to do.

leading the government review is the former chairman of the equality and human rights commission, trevor phillips. if we had been keeping regular data we would have known all about this a month ago. we are at least a month behind where we need to be. simply because people have been too squeamish to collect data about ethnicity. other families like charlies who are in emotional limbo, more clarity is needed. we need to know if our father died of covid—19. we need answers, we need him tested. the headlines on bbc news. the government website for millions of essential workers to request a coronavirus test has stopped taking bookings hours after it was launched. the number of reported deaths from covid—19 in uk hospitals rises by 684— to more than 19,500. the high street sees its biggest

drop in retail sales since records began — down by more than 5% because of the coronavirus lockdown. 30 years ago today, the space shuttle discovery lifted off from earth carrying a five member crew as well as a precious piece of cargo — the hubble space telescope. since its launch, the telescope has made more than 1.4 million observations from its near—earth orbit. it has been responsible for the deepest images of the universe ever recorded and its observations have settled many longstanding debates in cosmology. let's get more on this with professor anu tha, who is director of the uk's national space academy programme and a director

of the national space centre. some of us to remember the launch of the hubble and the excitement was generated then. just put it into perspective, how important has it been to our understanding of the universe? if there is one instrument that has rewritten our understanding it is the hubble space telescope. when it was launched the whole astronomical community, as soon as it was deployed from discovery we knew there was a problem with the optics and in simple terms hubble was short—sighted. and it is fair to say that nasser entire reputation was a risk —— n a say that nasser entire reputation wasa risk —— nas say that nasser entire reputation wasarisk——nasa say that nasser entire reputation was a risk —— n a s a until the collective up sticks were installed and began its job collective up sticks were installed and began itsjob and it was fantastic about the universe. what

hubble has done everything from new images of the gas giants in our solar system, going out to the other stars in ourmilky solar system, going out to the other stars in our milky way galaxy this collection of hundreds of millions of stars of which the sun is a but further field of stars of which the sun is a but furtherfield going of stars of which the sun is a but further field going out of stars of which the sun is a but furtherfield going out to of stars of which the sun is a but further field going out to the edge of the observable universe and the wonderful thing about hubble is that it is not just wonderful thing about hubble is that it is notjust the science that has been unlocked for the sheer beauty of the images that we get. there is an incredible emotional connection that not just we an incredible emotional connection that notjust we as astronomers an incredible emotional connection that not just we as astronomers feel but the general public around the world as it has shared the excitement of discovery. it is not just about inspiring a generation of astronomers, as i say, it has rewritten the fundamentals in many areas of our understanding of cosmology and space science. how has it affected our sense of place in

the universe? for me the most iconic image isn't the most spectacular. this was a blank patch of sky in the southern constellation. to give you an idea, this blank patch of sky was about the size of a tiny square one millimetre by millimetre if i take my thumbnail and holder of this guy, that's the patch of sky. one hubble looks at this and collected more light over 840 orbits of the earth what looks like a blank patch of sky we re what looks like a blank patch of sky were 10,000 dots but each of these dots was not a star, each of these dots was not a star, each of these dots was not a star, each of these dots was a galaxy, so each of these dots was a galaxy, so each of these dots was a galaxy containing hundreds of billions of stars like oursun and hundreds of billions of stars like our sun and what ages me is that using high school maths we can use that image and eyes simple consolation —— what amazes me. there are more star in the universe than

grains of sand on all the beaches on the earth. back when hubble was launched we thought we understood that the universe was going to expand and slowly shrinking its expansion and switch back on itself but hubble discover something new and that the universe is extant thing and that expansion is accelerating and we don't know what causes it but we do know that what is causing it makes up more than three quarters of the mass and neg in the universe but we haven't got a clue what it is. we call it dark energy. but this is the way that science work. just as we make some new discoveries we get even more new ones for the next generation to understand. sounds extraordinary. hubble is 30 years old now that you make it sound as if it continues to be very relevant. absolutely, we have had five free servicing missions, the last one in 2009, and we have several more years of life left in the hubble. some people say

why don't we keep upgrading it? it was designed in the late 1970s to the mid—19 80s so if you imagine a computer from that time it sort of like a bbc micro, you can only go that far with it. so that's why we have got the next generation of space telescope that are primed and ready for launch in the next four yea rs ready for launch in the next four years looking at a slightly different range of wavelengths of light and once again it is all about trying to understand the challenges of the origin of the universe but also closer to home understanding of the star systems because little more we understand about other star systems and even other planets in better understand we have about the conditions here in our home solar system and even in our own planet. lovely to talk to you, thank you so much and some dizzying descriptions of the universe there and our place in it. thank you very much rita.

thejournalist, presenter and prominent cancer campaigner lynn faulds wood has died. she was 72. lynn faulds wood worked on breakfast television in the nineteen eighties before going onto front bbc one's consumer affairs programme watchdog, presenting the programme for eight years alongside her husband john stapleton. she died after suffering a stroke, with her family by her bedside. more than £27 million has been raised by the bbc‘s big night in to help people across the uk affected by the pandemic. the programme on bbc one last night saw children in need and comic reliefjoin forces for the first time — and the government has now promised to double the fundraising total. our entertainment correspondent lizo mzimba was watching. music plays. like children in need night and red nose day, the show followed the familiar formula of featuring many of entertainment‘s biggest names. but this time, they were taking part from their homes. as arnold schwarzenegger: who do they? who are they?

david walliams and matt lucas reunited to bring viewers the first new little britain material in years. now, andy, i'vejust been to the supermarket for you — only took 11 hours — and i've got all your favourites for your tea. the vicar of dibley herself, dawn french, recorded a special monologue. those of you who were with me last sunday will know this room was crammed with easter eggs from the floor to the ceiling and now — voila — just the one left. while david tennant attempted to help catherine tate's lauren with her home—schooling. you've got to stand two metres away otherwise you could infect me with the virus. don't be ridiculous. social distancing, sir. stephen fry as blackadder‘s lord melchett was joined by the duke of cambridge before they led the nation's clap for carers. there was a performance from some of music's most famous faces of the song sing, written by gary barlow and andrew lloyd webber. # ..what we say.

..# the stars of strictly got the country involved in a dancing challenge. and the cast of eastenders took part in a queen vic virtual pub quiz. the money raised will go towards helping people in need during the current crisis. and it's not just celebrities doing their bit. peter kay recreated his famous amarillo video with clips sent in by key workers and members of the public from around the uk. lizo mzimba, bbc news. now it's time for a look at the weather with tomasz schafernaker. hello. well, the fine april weather is going to continue into the weekend. i know most of us are at home but at least it is good to know that the weather is going to hold if we pop out briefly for exercise or a

walk may be a quick nip to the shop for essentials. this is what it looks like on the satellite image. you can see across much of england, wales and scotland it is clear blue skies, a little bit more cloud there across parts of ireland through the course of the day. these are the temperatures late afternoon, still into the low 20s across the south in the south—east, even bludging up 19 degrees in the lowlands of scotland. tonight the skies are going to clear and it is going to be quite nippy across the south—west of the uk. these are the temperatures across saturday morning, nippy in some spots but milder in the south—west. tomorrow we do it all over again, at least most of us, another fine one day but there will be a little bit more cloud across eastern areas and againa more cloud across eastern areas and again a chance of catching some showers that across wales and the

south—west it might go over your house and give the garden a little watering. as we go through the course of sunday a week of low pressure weather weather front moves across the north of the country so that means slightly fresher air from the north of atlantic, scotland and northern ireland and also the possibility of increasing amounts of cloud, generally speaking across more northern parts of the uk there is an increasing chance of cloud and some showers but still a warm day across the south—east, 22 degrees on sunday. next week we start to see a shift in the wind direction to the wind starts to come in through the norwegian sea spreading across scotla nd norwegian sea spreading across scotland much of ireland and northern england as well. this is a cool frontier which will bring down the temperatures a little bit for some of our northern cities, i think down by a few degrees at least for places like newcastle by the time we get till monday may be 12 celsius but still holding on to some of that warmth in the south whether clouds

are lurking and actually into tuesday and wednesday we are expecting low clouds across the uk with the chance of some showers. goodbye.

this is bbc news, i'm reeta chakrabarti. the headlines at 4:30... the government website for key workers in england to request a coronavirus test stops taking bookings just hours after launching — due to high demand. it was very easy to log on and register. itjust said that you would then receive a text which would take a few minutes but it might take a little bit longer if it's busy. and i've still not had a text yet, so i'm assuming they're very busy. the number of reported deaths from covid—19 in uk hospitals rises by 684 to more than 19,500. the biggest drop in retail sales since records began — down by more than 5% because of the coronavirus lockdown.