in spain, six million children have been allowed outside for the first time since the middle of last month. under ms can now have an hour a day outdoors, accompanied by an adult. the coronavirus has killed more than 23,000 people in spain. italy, which has recorded more coronavirus deaths than any other european country, is to begin easing lockdown measures. the prime minister, giuseppe conte, said restaurants and bars will be allowed to serve takeaway food from may the fourth. parks will also reopen, but schools are to remain closed until september. the british prime minister, borisjohnson has returned to downing street two weeks after being discharged from hospital. he has officially resumed control of the uk's response to the coronavirus pandemic — including the task ofjudging how and when the lockdown should be eased.

now on bbc news, dateline london. hello and welcome to dateline london. i'm carrie gracie. this week... the first covid—19 infections in a lebanese refugee camp. the who warns of a rising curve in africa and latin america. and the world food programme warns of massive famine. even before the virus, 2020 was set to be the hungriest year since the second world war. now, the wfp says 265 million people risk starvation. and while the rich world may not be starving, but it too is reeling from human

tragedy and economic misery. my guests on socially distanced screens — mina al—0raibi, editor of the national, a news service for the middle east, and american journalist and authorjef mcallister. welcome to both of you. and here in the studio observing the two—metre rule, the bbc‘s chief international correspondent lyse doucet. mina, can we start with you? we've heard so much about iran through this crisis but we've heard less about the gulf so how is it tackling the pandemic and how does it sit in terms of its dealing with the pandemic in the middle east generally? i'm here in abu dhabi, there have been over 9000 cases reported here.

the first case was first reported towards february in mid—february. they were a family that had come here as tourists from wuhan. from there it spread. in other parts of the gulf mainly kuwait and saudi arabia that had very high numbers to start with, all of those who had the virus had been in iran. a lot has been said about that, partly because from there, a lot of cases from the middle east spread, including from iraq. here in the gulf saudi arabia was under the microscope with how many people going there, and also because saudi arabia chose the g20. —— chairs the g20 this year. there have been a lot of questions about what they are doing, not only domestically, but regionally they took the first step to announce the closure of mosques to worshippers. that was a very important step because it allowed the risk down the rest of the muslim world to say, yes, we will close mosques. here in the uae, one of the first countries decided to close schools in the region.

at the time, it was seen as quite drastic. this was a seven weeks ago. but it was very important to limit the cases. they have been very proactive in testing. the uae‘s approach is, we're going to get this under control if we test rigorously and take very stringent measures about having people outdoors. decisions to keep people at home came quite early. working from home was started in about mid—march. companies had to start preparing for it. towards the end of march, people were working at home except for essential workers. in brief, relative success story, it sounds like, compared to other places in the world? it has been testing and telling everyone they can get free medication. in the uae, if you do get covid—i9,

you can get free medication regardless of your income. including testing. they have drive—through testing, they were among the first in the region who started the drive through testing. and the close relationship with south korea, china, learning about what they did there and learning from it. here in the uae and other parts of the gulf. lyse, let's talk about the lebanese refugee camp. a lot of fears of the virus arriving there, but have relief agencies had time to prepare? humanitarian agencies were warning from the very beginning global pandemic, that there was a nightmare to come, and in those areas where people live in the worst possible conditions. we are all being told to stay at home. how do you stay at home when your home is a cardboard box, a flimsy tent, an abandoned and half destroyed school?

in talking to agencies over the weeks that have gone past, some of the big agencies said they were able to send more supplies in as well as ppe. but it is getting more difficult because they have to worry about the safety of their people and in a lot of places as airports are closing, so you can't send in the valuable medical supplies that people need. bear in mind, before all of this happened, the un was warning that almost 17 million people worldwide, displaced people, asylum seekers and refugees, was a record number. and that community is the most vulnerable of all. the vast majority living in countries where the health systems are already overwhelmed and where pressure was already building. the lebanese camp, where you had one palestinian woman and four of her relatives in a camp in eastern lebanon. and lebanon of course has taken a huge number of refugees. 1 million syrians, many not living in the camps but in settlements.

palestinians who have been there for decades. one small snapshot. more and more we're going to be hearing more about this. jef, what about the world food programme warning of a hunger pandemic? because it's notjust humanitarian agencies that lyse is talking about, for syrian refugees, but it's also people in need of relief all over the world. more than a quarter of a billion people are at risk of starvation, they are warning. i think it's true and i think it is probably going to get worse. i think food—wise, all sorts of disruption as likely as a result. it is interesting that you have seen very few countries say anything in response to that report. they are all overwhelmed, even the rich countries, looking after their own people. you would think that the almost trillions of dollars of debt and spending, you could spare a few hundred million for relief,

but i have not heard much talk about it. even in the course of this epidemic, the donald trump approach is to defund the who, it is anti—international institutions. trillion dollars international institution... in any event, although i think some countries may step up. the only thing that is going to be the solution on a large scale is the return of economic activity. i think the success of india and china in the past couple of decades of getting people out of poverty have shown that what really needs to happen is that people need to have jobs and earn and do things at a larger scale so they can eat and go to school and have health care, all the things that are necessary. and as long as the world economy is in a mess, which will affect the poor countries and the poor people in those countries more than others,

really, relief is very valuable and important but it is only going to be an inadequate band—aid. but lyse, coming back to what the who warning about rising cases in africa and latin america. it makes what jef it makes whatjef was talking about so it makes whatjef was talking about so hard. 0n the one hand, you have a rising curve, the who clearly very worried about infections. the message has been consistent that this virus is going to be with the world for a very long time. it's interesting and worrying that people are now describing it as the first wave, to make people understand that this isjust the beginning. that was the message of angela merkel this week, herself a scientist. take africa, the number of cases shot up by 40% this week. what about the kind of protective equipment that you need to treat it? take ventilators. there have been so many discussions in britain about how many ventilators. the who contacted african countries. 41 responded. 2000 ventilators across the continent. somalia has none, central

african republic has three. nigeria has fewer than 100. and while they worry about the rising curve in terms of covid—19, there is also the threat of malaria. the who is warning that malaria cases could double. 94%, people die of malaria still in sub—saharan africa. it is the same story in south america. nina was talking about how testing made the difference in the gulf. testing made the difference in many south east asian countries. in latin america, they are among the highest number of countries with the lowest percentage of testing being done. i don't want to leave the developing world, mina, we want to get your take on iran. how do you think they are

doing at this point? are they coming out of the worst? it's hard to tell. the numbers peaked. we thought the numbers were beginning to plateau and then they picked up again. let's not forget about turkey. turkey has over 100,000 cases. turkey at first refused to acknowledge having any cases to start with. between iran and turkey, the large significant countries in the region who both host refugee populations, there is a real concern at the moment that iranians have a very weekend health care system. there is talk about how much of it is actually getting reported and therefore treated. to go to the point about lives and livelihoods, i want to make the point that there

are countries like iran and iraq, getting a double whammy, and nigeria, with oil prices crashing, they are going to suffer even further. jef, turning to the rich world, we talk about the united states has —— as being the richest country in the world. some look at its management of the pandemic and say it looks like a developing country. is that fair or is that the way the media picks up the worst of the story? a lot of the way the media picks it up is because the president of the united states goes on television for two hours a day and does lots of strange things, so i don't think it is entirely the media's faults. there was a quote which i thought came from churchill but apparently it is not. the americans always do the right things after trying all the alternatives. we are in that stage where... i think all of the weaknesses of the american constitutional system really come to the fore. i don't think people appreciate how decentralised it is and how much power the states have, how much cooperation

and jostling is required. people trying to get onto a common framework that is from leadership and not for dictation that american leadership relies upon. you do see good signs that governors are trying to cooperate with each other. you see i6—year—olds using 3d printers to come up with protective equipment. there is a lot of initiative and good parts about america that you are seeing. but the reaction is kind of scary to me as an american living abroad for a long time. a lot of the weaknesses of the system, governors fighting each other for protective equipment, the president changing his mind on television about what to do. he is telling people to stay inside. the next day, he is telling people to liberate themselves from their own state governments. a lot of things that seem to appeal to his base. that is why he loves going on television for two hours a day and talks about taking disinfectant to stop the infection in their bodies.

i mean, all sorts of amazing things. the economic response, although substantial, trillions of dollars, is not quite kicking in enough. unemployment insurance is running out. people can't get on the lines because the state governments are overwhelmed trying to handle them. it could be so much better than it is. i think it is a blow to america's leadership. i have a friend, a pakistani educated at yale, brilliant barrister here, who is quite pro—american naturally who said that not only is america not a leader but it has to be quarantined itself because its affect is so pernicious. and if americans do not realise that by november, then the country will be in a downward spiral it can't get out of.

that might be hyperbolic, but there has been a lot of soft power squandered in the way that the us has responded to this pandemic. interesting the pandemic a petri dish for how we perceive governments. lyse, talk to us about plans to get out of lockdown. the uk government under enormous pressure about past, present and future. its preparedness. its proper —— its plans to get out of lock down. is it managing to get on top this week? this is something that as journalists we wonder. every week of this crisis there has been a different dominant narratives. particularly here in britain this week, the narrative now, we are seeing it in the newspaper, is slow. was the government too slow to introduce a lockdown? was it too slow to stockpile the ppe that medical workers need? was it too slow to start testing? the government said in the beginning they were being guided by the science, and it was the science making the decisions. there was a very interesting exchange this week when mps quizzed the four chief medical officers

who made it clear that science never goes in one direction. there is not one single arrow without any doubt or uncertainty. science does raise questions. it is the politicians that have to make the decisions based on science. and even if we look at europe... sweden's chief scientific officer took a very different approach to his nordic neighbours and they are not locking down there. so the government is pushing back, saying we took the right decisions based on the right science at the time. but when you have the editor of the lancet saying that life could be saved, even if it was not a lockdown, if there had been some physical distance and if people had been warned earlier. we saw last week graphs showing countries that locked down sooner and states that lockeddown longer having better results. the other issue is, when do you come out of lockdown? the criticism we heard from first minister nicola sturgeon

saying, let's have a grown—up conversation and discuss how we are going to come out of this lockdown. government ministers here are being criticised for treating people as children. people are saying, listen, as individuals, we are being asked to do a lot. in exchange for that, we expect more information from the government. this will go on for a long time. at some point people will look at this in a more systematic way, what could be done differently? mina, different countries are at different points on this journey, but there are some who are slightly ahead, whose numbers are falling in terms of both infections and deaths, who are thinking about lifting their restrictions. do they offer examples for the rest of us and do they particularly offer examples for those countries where people are clamouring about the costs of the cure, with some saying the cure is worse than the disease?

there are a number of issues at play here. one is that certain countries felt that they got through the worst of it, let's say, and started to ease their lockdowns and then got a second wave. south korea was one of those. and also in singapore, we saw things go quite well and suddenly there was a spike in numbers. it is very hard to know unless there is enough testing and unless there are enough procedures put in place where you can see how much you have been able to contain it, especially as commercial flying continues to be almost on a halt. so figuring out if anybody knew was coming into the country once you have get out what is happening in your country is an issue. absolutely. the economic consequences, not only for tourism and the aviation industry, but the small mom—and—pop shops, enterprises that

will not be able to deal with this. and also large corporations that are saying we will not be able to take care of our employees much longer. there is not one linear line that this is going on. we can't say, this is the country that did it right so far. even in china, they have had a partial opening up. but there is still the issue of testing and it has not been a long enough time. this is going to require a lot of patience and individuals accepting that they will have to limit theirfreedom of movement but their ability to work normally as they do. at the end of it, whether we can get countries to come up with a model that works for everybody, it's too soon to say. of course there is another issue — the issue of vaccines. that is going to take, at a minimum, another year before you can talk about vaccines being part of the way to move forward from this covid—i9 pandemic. and so for individual countries, they needs the sign to go to go city—by—city.

as you try to go back from the big, globalised, long supply chain system that we were used to, to much more local controllable areas where you can monitor and control. and what happens if, god forbid, there is a spike of cases. jef, picking up what we heard from mina, do you think the world in 2021 is going to look very different from the world before, coronavirus? i think it is going to take a lot longer to recover than people are hoping. the idea that we will open up right away and just bounce back and the airlines are going to be full of passengers and restaurants are full, i just don't see that. as mina said, the idea of — that we even have an understanding of the way that this virus operates is simply wrong. the reports in the last week

that it not only causes respiratory problems but also, in younger people, strokes and heart disease. we don't — we heard reports today that nobody really knows, that even if you've had it, it may not confer long—term immunity. as people feel their way around their own level of risk, their willingness to go out to do things, and they see others with a different level of risk, i think there is going to be a lot of skittishness. i think even if governments say, go back to work, i think we will face a substantial recession and reorganisation. evenif even if people's company so you have to come back to work. many people who have contactjobs and jobs at the bottom,

they will not have much choice and it will be huge, huge strain on politics and economics. what kind of cooperation would be necessary to get the global economy back into some kind of forward gear? i mean, we haven't really seen it in fighting the infection, in a way world has been broadsided by that, but in terms of getting the economy on the road again, will be see more cooperation? this is a huge question and those who believe the way forward is cooperation, people look back to history a lot and say, look what came out of the second world war, look at the multilateral institutions: the united nations, the world bank, the marshall plan for europe, all these evidence that states understood that after so much destruction and so much loss, the world could only recover

if everyone recovered, all for one and one for all. people are asking now, what will come out of this? will there be a big reset or will people continue to look inwards? will the walls go up? will people be in a race to the bottom in competing for protective equipment? some of the signs are not good, but there is also light at this moment with people calling for multilateralism, calling for global ceasefires, global efforts. but let us see. the virus is a test of our humanity, and so will our recovery be a test of humanity. we are only at the beginning. so, the start of the test. let's leave that big question there and leave the audience to ponder that for the next week. we will probably go back to it. couple of minutes, before getting a sense,

which we now do every week, about what stories you think we are neglecting as a result of our preoccupation with the pandemic? jef, you go first. there was a report from the senate intelligence committee, bipartisan, four years later agreed that the russians really did try to mess up the american elections. the fact that there can be bipartisan agreement on that seems to be good sign. but it also ties into another report that china is now trying to upset american politics in the same way as the russians, using the internet, using conspiracy theories, trying to sow division through strange claims. and it is apparently working quite well. so i'm worried that the virus, which also needs testing and contact tracing, is allowed to work out of control as well. mina, what about you? a story that we are neglecting? the year started with americans

taking out an iranian general. the potential clash between iran and the us. that is playing out at the moment. we are waiting for government formation. there has not been a government, really, since november. the prime minister is trying to form a new government. tehran and washington trying desperately to work that out. iraqi protesters who went home because of the covid—19 outbreak are continuing to raise their voices and change the trajectory of iraq, which could influence how the middle east goes. fascinating stories, lyse? two landmark trials in german cities this week. putting people on trial who are accused of war crimes and crimes against humanity. in one case, people were alleged to be part of president assad's security force, accused of rounding

people up to be tortured. in another case, the first iraqi national, someone put on trial for allegedly being a member of a terrorist organisation. for the murder of a five—year—old yazidi girl. this was the first prosecution in efforts to hold islamic state accountable for what the un has recognised as genocide. so, some small lights. the human rights activist in syria said that this is a message to the world that impunity is over. a sombrero story, an important story. —— sombre story. it has been a sombre programme, so let us leave the audience with a moment of light at the end. we want something that has made you either have hope, laugh or smile in the past week. mina, you go first. the story of how the planet is recovering, the environment is taking a breath even though it comes at a high cost. maybe it was the only way

that we could give the fight against climate change a chance. jef? i have a limerick from my next neighbour. "the president's cure to pandemic pox was a main dose of clorox. he said it came from special savvy, in truth, he saw it in his lavvy. must be true, saw it reported on fox. " as i left home this morning, i heard a little boy and a bicycle screaming to his parents, "look, look, this is my first big bike." and i thought of the childhood joys. the world has been narrowed, and yet those little rituals of life to go on and may those rituals that we cherish come back and may those rituals that actually were best not to hold onto, may they go away. it has been a joy to have you, even though we have talked about serious things.

that is it for dateline london for this week. we will be back next week, same place, same time. thank you all of you for watching. stay safe, goodbye. hello there. the weather is going to feel quite different for this upcoming week. we have been used to high pressure, settled weather. this week is going to bea settled weather. this week is going to be a bit cooler and wetter with quite a bit of cloud around at times, too. monday will be quite cloudy, that is going to feel quite different. sunshine developing through the south—east throughout the day but some spots of rain in a car, too. the best of the sunshine further north, still some showers across scotland, in particular across scotland, in particular across northern scotland. temperatures low to mid—teens celsius but we could see 19 or 20

again in warm spots across the south—east. the monday night it stays rather sorry across the north with clear skies but we see a new area of low pressure moving up from the south into southern britain that is going to bring some persistent rain here. so temperatures by the end of the night will actually be well over nine or 10 degrees here because of the cloud but a chilly night for scotland with a touch of frost. it remains wet on tuesday for england and wales, showers in the north remain unsettled and in the middle part of the week, too.

this is bbc news — welcome if you're watching here in the uk or around the globe. i'm aaron safir. our top stories: six million spanish children are allowed outside for the first time in several weeks, as deaths from coronavirus there fall to their lowest level in more than a month. me and all my family are people who like to go out and have fun in the outside. italy, the european country with the highest number of covid—i9 deaths, announces plans to ease some of its lockdown restrictions in a week. a million australians register for a contact—tracing