the pandemic has driven the us economy into its most severe contraction for more than a decade. it shrank nearly 5% in the first quarter, the first three months of 2020. but the lockdown only came in towards the end of that quarter, so the head of the us central bank has warned there'll be much more economic pain in the figures for april through june. the death toll from coronavirus in the uk has now passed 26,000. for the first time, the official figures count all deaths linked to the virus, including care homes and the wider community. the pandemic claimed nearly 4,000 more lives than were being recorded previously. the white house health advisor, dr anthony fauci, has expressed optimism about an experimental anti—viral drug. he said trial data shows remdesivir had a clear—cut and positive effect in reducing recovery time. it's still unclear whether the drug actually saves lives.

you are pretty much up to date. it is liz30am. now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcomed to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. as the global effort to control covid—19 continues, so arguments about culpability for the spread of the virus intensify. and at the heart of the story, china, where the outbreak began. did the chinese government's impulse to cover up the truth cost the world dear, or did beijing respond with admirable determination? my guest today is china's ambassador in london, liu xiaoming. is china the villain or the hero of this pandemic?

ambassador liu xiaoming, welcome to hardtalk. thank you — thank you to be with you again. we are delighted to have you on this programme at this difficult time. let me start with a very simple, direct question. do you accept that covid—19 has its origins in china? it was first discovered in wuhan. but i can't say it originated from wuhan. according to many information, many reports including bbc. it can be everywhere and anywhere. it can be in aircraft carriers. it could be found in the submarine.

it can be found in some countries, it has very little connection with china. and also it can also be found in a group of people who have never been to china. so i couldn't say, we cannot say it has originated from china. ambassador, let me stop you there, because i am confused by that answer, because it clearly is a new virus that originated somewhere, it crossed, according to all the immunologists and the virologists, it crossed from animals to humans and there was a first case and then it spread. there is no doubt that the first case was in china. i wonder why you are telling me that it spread over the world and people have caught it who have never been to china. that is clear because it has become a pandemic. but the question that matters so much is where did it start? i think this question is still up for a scientist to decide

where is the first case to be found. i read a report that the first case was reported in china, in china, i am talking in china on the 27th of december. by dr zhang to the local health authorities. but i read a report that some of the cases even for much earlier than that, we read in the report by your newspapers yesterday, that your scientists, medical advisers even warned your government that there might be a virus. unknown to us much earlier, last year. i can say the first case was reported in china on december 27. i think there is no doubt experts believe the origin of the first outbreak, the first examples of this

covid—i9 virus to be found in human beings came from wuhan and the surrounding area in china. i just wonder whether you accept that it is very important that we understand exactly what happened at the beginning of this outbreak, that we understand, frankly, what mistakes and missteps were made, which allowed the first outbreak to become a global pandemic. i think it is still debatable. i think we have to agree to disagree. i think it's first discovered in wuhan, in china, but i can't say it originated from wuhan. let me tell you the timeline of china's fight against this virus. when it was first reported on december 27 by dr zhang and then the chinese

health authorities, cdc, notify who, the fourth day, december 31, in the shortest possible time, and also shared this information with other countries. china shared the discovery of the problem with the who in the shortest possible time, and share the information about genetic sequence of this virus in the early possible time. let me interrupt you on the question of the timelime because you missed out one important point. on december 30, a doctor in wuhan used his chat group online to tell fellow doctors that there was a new, very worrying disease in wuhan. he advised his colleagues that they must wear protective clothing to avoid this new infection, and just a couple of days later,

he was summoned to the public security bureau, he was made to sign a letter in which he confessed to making false statements to severely disturb the social order. that was the beginning of an official cover—up, which continued through the month of january. as i said earlier, now i understand why there is a so—called call for independent investigation. they tried to find excuse to criticise china for a cover—up but the fact is that he was not the first one who discovered this virus. i have told you it was another doctor, and he reported three days earlier to the health authorities. then the health authorities in wuhan reported to the central government that four days later.

that means one day after the first doctor spread this word. china authorities share this information with the who and other countries. with respect, ambassador, the information that was shared was actually extremely limited, because on january 14, we now know this from leaks that have been given to the washington post and the associated press, we know than internally, china's national commission head, mr xiaowei, laid out a very grim assessment of what was happening. he said that the situation was severe, compress, complex cases suggest human—to—human transmission is happening, the memo said, the risk of transmission and spread is high. but in public — that was internal — but in public, the head of china's disease control emergency centre, the very next day, said the risk of sustained human—to—human transmission is low, that it was preventable and controllable.

so, i put it to you again — there is compelling evidence that china, for weeks, did not tell the truth. you give me not enough time to answer your question. i haven't answered a question with regard to the cover—up. that is not true. dr zhang reported through a normal channel to help authorities. but li spread the word amongst his friends. in an independent country, when you have something, the virus which is dangerous to people's health, but something that is unknown, there might always be a panic. i think the police authority summoned li, warned him not to do it, you cannot say this is a cover—up since on the official channel, we report to the normal channel, but on this, we need to make sure

that there should be no panic. even today in uk... i think your government is fighting about this misinformation. some people try to use this to create panic for their own gain. but we have... i think li's case is close. and it is reported to the central authorities, the government sent an investigation team down to wuhan and find out that li did the right thing. and the police reveerted and li was made starter and has given the highest of honour... dr li was regarded by the chinese people as a hero when he died. not only the chinese people, but also regarded by the chinese government. but with respect, i think the people of china are very aware,

and i come back to it, that the chinese government was not straight with them, nor with the outside world. tell me if you can one more time why on january 14 the national health commission document that was an internal document was labelled not to be spread on the internet, not to be publicly disclosed in which they said that there was evidence of human—to—human transmission, clustered cases, a severe and complex problem. why is it that the very next day — i come back to it — that one of your most senior officials... i think all your information is coming from washington post. i think you depend too much on american media. i really hope you depend on the who for information. we share all this information with the who. you know, i...i saw your interview.

china has transparent and quickest in terms of sharing information with the who. of course, inside china, we have to take precautions, measures, we have to take strict conventional measures to fight against this virus. it is still unknown then, so people do not know... our understanding with the who with the other countries... but, ambassador, your problem is — and you are a very senior diplomat, you know this is a problem — that many people around the world simply do not believe the chinese version of events. donald trump only a few hours ago said that he is not happy at all with china's stance. "they could've stopped the virus at the source." he said, "we are undertaking a thorough investigation. " and the vice president to mike pence listed a whole host of reasons why

the united states believes that china was not straight with the world and is, therefore, culpable for the fact this pandemic is now causing so much death and so much economic damage right around the world. you have, as china, a massive problem there. i don't think so. i think when you say china has a massive problem, i think you are more talking about the western world. i think since the outbreak, china has a very strong cooperation with the who and with many other countries. we sent technical assistance and experts and provided medical supplies to more than 150 countries. all of them spoke highly of china's efforts. so, i can't say the united states represents the world and even in the western world, we have been receiving appraisal, praise from the countries

like united kingdom, from france, from germany. you quote president trump. let me also quote him about his comment about china. on 24th of january, that was one month after we reported, almost one month we found this virus, he said, "the united states greatly appreciates china's efforts and the transparency. " so, six days later, and he said, "we are working very hard and we are working very closely with china." "he handled it well." things have changed a great deal since the end of january. china, it has to be said, you say look at what we have done to deliver medical assistance and equipping around the world. what many people see is china running a campaign of disinformation and propaganda around

the world in recent weeks. you say we have a great relationship with france. the french just called in your counterpart the chinese ambassador in france accusing him of spreading disinformation because the embassy website in paris is claiming that all people in care homes in france are being abandoned to suffer and die alone. that is a colleague of yours. another colleague of yours in the foreign ministry used social media to promote the conspiracy theory that the us military had a smuggled coronavirus into china. why is your country running this disinformation campaign? i think you picked the wrong target. it's not china who starts this campaign of disinformation. you can compare china's statement and comments by china's leaders, chinese diplomats, chinese ambassadors with american counterparts, you will know who is spreading disinformation.

do you agree with the foreign ministry spokesman who did put up the link suggesting that the us military had smuggled coronavirus into china ? is that something you also believe? i think what you're saying is he retweeted some comment by some media reports. you know that i do not know why you focus on some comments by intermediaries in china but miss the disinformation by a senior official, even the national leaders of the united states for some they start this campaign of disinformation. especially by the top diplomat, the secretary of state. i think when it comes to china,

there are no good words about china. the chinese are regarded as evil regularly. not as a country lending a helping hand for americans in the fight against this virus. i do not quite understand. how deep is the crisis with united states right now that has been sparked by all that the accusations that have arisen from coronavirus? how deep is the diplomatic crisis? we certainly want to have a good relation with united states. i had been posted twice in washington, dc. i always believe china and united states will gain from cooperation and lose from confrontation. and we have every reason to have a good relation with the united states but it has to be based on mutual trust, coordination, not confrontation. but you need two to tango. and since the outbreak, i think the president xi and president trump

keep close contact. they compare notes and just like president xi had a summer conversation with prime minister borisjohnson. we want to build an international response to this virus. i just want to let americans know that china is not the enemy of the united states. it is the virus! it is the enemy of the united states, they need to find the right target. a very important message you're sending. maybe china could consider some gestures that would improve relations with not just the united states but many other countries including australia and the uk who have made the same point to your government. will you now categorically guarantee to close down the sort of wet markets, no longer the sale of these live wild animals in the food markets that are known

as the wet markets? is that not something that has been banned not just short term, but absolutely banned forever in china? first to come to your first point about many countries. i cannot agree with you that china has a problem with a many countries. i think we have more friends than opponents than even enemies. i even say western countries, a few of would say western countries, do not represent the world. i think china enjoys good relationships and i think we are building an international response. we are building... president xi said... ambassador we are short on time, i find may... i need specific answers. 0n the wet markets, are they now close for good yes or no? there is no such thing about wet markets.

this is a western and foreign notion to many chinese. we do have a fresh market where fresh vegetables and fresh seafood, fish, are sold and some live poultry that is very rarely. i think you're talking about the so—called illegal market for selling wildlife. that has been totally banned. and the law has been passed that it will be banned permanently. that is there for a recognition, yes, a recognition on your government's part that the dangers of those markets where live wild animals were sold alongside other foodstuffs, they were dangers that did cause the spread of coronavirus from animals to humans? i agree with that. finally we have a few points to agree with. i'm very pleased with that. that's what this market, we are talking about wildlife market.

it is totally banned. it is illegal to hunt, to treat, to eat even. so... people watching this will only wish that you made that ban real before coronavirus spread and cause such terrible damage around the world. are you in anyway now prepared to say sorry for is happened? no, you come to your first point again. you cannot blame china for coronavirus. that is the problem with this argument. it was found in china, it was found in many places. many places that have no connection with china at all. you keep pointing yourfingers at china for the outbreak and we have done our best capability. china is a victim of the coronavirus. china is not a source of this problem. china is not the producer of this epidemic.

that is something we have to come clean about. china, you know ambassador, is seen for example by leading politicians in this country like the chairman of the parliamentary foreign affairs select committee as very much the cause. he has talked about a soviet style system, a toxic system inside your government, inside your machine which he says has been responsible notjust for betraying the chinese people and their health and well—being but betraying the wider world as well. and there are now because for the united kingdom and also calls in the united states and other countries for a disengagement from close economic ties with china. in britain, it is centred on huawei and your telecoms giant activities in the sg sector. people saying that should no longer be tolerated in the united kingdom. as the ambassador in the uk, are you worried that there

is going to be now an economic disengagement? i think you talk about this person as very senior politicians. but i don't think this view represents official positions of the uk government for some. i think the uk government and prime ministerjohnson are so committed to a stronger partnership with china. he reaffirmed the uk's commitment to build a golden era with china. we do have a very good cooperation with the uk side, even throughout this outbreak in addition to communication, intensive communication. i have been here for ten years as a chinese ambassador. i have seen our top leaders have never seen such intensive communications. and on a ministerial level, we have a foreign minister,

one state counsellor with secretary dominic raab and the director has a close contact with others. and i here in london have very close contact with the secretaries including matt hancock and alloc sharma, foreign secretary dominic raab, we have a strong relationship. you quote those people, soviets for example. i think there is totally a cold war mentality. we are living in the third decade of the 21st century, but those people still believe in old days, when they were fighting the cold war. china is not former soviet union. i think china and uk... we are united by common interests then divided by other differences. i am very confident about this relationship. ambassador, we have to end it there, but i do thank you very much

indeed forjoining me here on hardtalk at this difficult time. liu xiaoming, thank you very much indeed. my pleasure. hello. it wasn't so much a case of april showers on wednesday, this was the scene for a time across birmingham, but give it a wee bit of time and eventually that rain cleared away and out came the sun. the reason for it all? well, we had not one but two weather fronts to contend with. and thursday again is a real mishmash of weather, low pressure very much the dominant feature, the isobars squeezing together on its southern flank. so, it isn't going to be a particularly cold start to the day

given all the breeze and the cloud as well, but for some it may be a wet one. we're just pushing wednesday's rain if you you like, away from the north of england up into central and southern parts of scotland. right from the word go, there are showers to be had across wales and the south—west of england. these will rush their way ever further towards the east as we get on through the afternoon. we may even hear the odd rumble of thunder and those winds too, quite noticeable through the channel areas, 40—45 miles an hour or so in the highest of the gusts. for northern ireland, the best and the brightest perhaps later in the day, out towards the west. stuck underneath the cloud, the eastern side of scotland, nine only, a high in the day of about 13 or 14. those showers keep going for those eastern areas during the course of the evening, gradually filtering away as the low pressure tries to move its centre of gravity out into the north sea. but it's still the dominant influence across the northern half of the british isles. and come the afternoon again, i think we'll see some pretty heavy downpours towards the eastern side of the pennines. perhaps the driest of the weather further towards the south and west

where we could well see a high in the day of 15 or 16. that low pressure is still the dominant feature as i take you out friday and move you into the first part of the weekend. but you just get the sense that it is drifting a little bit further towards the east and out allows it to start picking up the north and north—westerly wind. so the northern areas fully exposed to that wind, we will probably see the bulk of the showers there. elsewhere, saturday is shaping up to be a pretty reasonable day. quite a lot of sunshine around and the temperatures responding as a consequence. a high in the day of about 16 or 17. but it doesn't last. now, there is some uncertainty about sunday, it could well be the rain i'm showing you here working its way into the south actually moves a little bit further north. we will keep you posted on that one. take care, bye—bye.

this is bbc news. i'm maryam moshiri with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. the uk prime minister is set to discuss how the coronavirus lockdown can be eased, but he's unlikely to set out a timetable. the white house health advisor says there's been positive data from us trials of an anti—viral drug for treating covid—i9. the us federal bank warns coronavirus has left the world's biggest economy facing the worst period in its history. hungary passes its coronavirus peak with only 260 deaths, but doctors are left confused by an abrupt reduction