the headlines: president trump says china will be held accountable for the pandemic as soon as us intelligence reports confirm what went wrong. agencies have concluded that the covid—19 virus was not manmade. they're still examining if its spread was due to a possible accident at a chinese laboratory. britain's prime minister says the uk has passed the peak of the outbreak. speaking at his first briefing since recovering from covid—19, borisjohnson warned it was too soon to lift the lockdown. he said he would set out a comprehensive plan next week for eventually easing restrictions. the eurozone‘s economy shrank at its fastest pace on record in the first quarter. gdp contracted 3.8% from january to march. that's even worse than during the financial crisis. separate data showed a steep fall in economic activity in france and spain over the same period.

now on bbc news, time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. as the global effort to control covid—19 continues, so arguments about culpability for the spread of the virus intensify. and at the heart of the story, china, where the outbreak began. did the chinese government's impulse to cover up the truth cost the world dear, or did beijing respond with admirable determination? well, my guest today is china's ambassador in london, liu xiaoming. is china the villain or the hero of this pandemic?

ambassador liu xiaoming, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. thank you to be with you again. we are delighted to have you on our programme at this difficult time. let me start, actually, with a very simple, direct question — do you accept that covid—19 has its origins in china? it was first discovered in wuhan, but i can't say it originated from wuhan. you know, according to many information, many reports, including bbc, it can be everywhere and anywhere. you know, it can be in aircraft carriers. it can be found even in the submarine and it can be found in some countries, which have very little connection with china. and also, it can be found in the group of people who have

never been to china. so i couldn't say — we cannot say it's originated from china... ambassador, let me stop you there, because i'm a little confused by that answer. i mean, clearly, it is a new virus. it originated somewhere, it crossed, it seems, according to all of the immunologists and the virologists, it crossed from animals to humans, and there was a first case and then it spread. there is no doubt that the first case was in china. i'm wondering why you're telling me that it spread over the world and people have caught it who've never been to china — that is clear because it's become a pandemic. but the question that matters so much is — where did it start? i think this question is still up for a scientist to decide where is the first case to be found. i read a report, you know, the first case was reported in china — in china, i'm talking in china on december 27 by dr zhang to china

local health authorities, but i read a report that some of the cases, even found much earlier than that, you know, we read even the report by your newspapers yesterday, that your scientists, medical advisers even warned your government that there might be a virus, unknown to us, much earlier, last year. so i can say that the first case was reported in china on december 27. i think there's no doubt experts believe the origin of the first outbreak, the first examples of this covid—i9 virus to be found in human beings came from wuhan and the surrounding area in china. i just wonder whether you accept

that it is very important that we understand exactly what happened at the beginning of this outbreak, that we understand, frankly, what mistakes and missteps were made, which allowed the first outbreak to become a global pandemic. i think it is still debatable. i think we have to agree to disagree. i think it's first discovered in wuhan, in china, but i can't say it originated from wuhan. let me tell you the timeline of china's fight against this virus. when it was first reported on december 27 by dr zhang and then chinese health authorities, cdc, notified who, the fourth day, on december 31, in the shortest possible time, and also shared this information with other countries.

china shared the discovery of the problem with the who in the shortest possible time, and also shared the information about genetic sequence of this virus in the earliest possible time... ambassador, let me just interrupt you on this question of the timelime, because you've missed out one very important point. on december 30, a doctor in wuhan, li wenliang, used his chat group online to tell fellow doctors that there was a new and very worrying disease in wuhan. he advised his colleagues that they must wear protective clothing to avoid this new infection, and just a couple of days later, he was summoned to the public security bureau, he was made to sign a letter in which he confessed to making false statements that had severely disturbed the social order.

that was the beginning of an official cover—up, which continued through the month of january. as i said earlier, now i understand why there's a so—called call for independent investigation. you know, they tried to find excuse for them to criticise china for a cover—up, but the fact is that li wenliang is not the first one who discovered this virus. i have told you it was drjiaxian zhang, and he reported three days earlier than li wenliang to the health authorities. then the health authorities in wuhan reported to the central government four days later. that means one day after li wenliang spread this word, china authorities shared this information with the who and other countries...

with respect, ambassador, the information that was shared was actually extremely limited, because onjanuary 14 — we now know this from leaks that have been given to the washington post and the associated press — we know than internally, china's national health commission head, mrxiaowei, laid out a very grim assessment of what was happening. he said that the situation was severe, complex, clustered cases suggest human—to—human transmission is happening, the memo said, the risk of transmission and spread is high. but in public — that was internal — but in public, the head of china's disease control emergency centre, the very next day said the risk of sustained human—to—human transmission is low, that it was preventable and controllable. so, i put it to you again — there is compelling evidence that china, for weeks, did not tell the truth. you give me not enough time

to answer your question. i haven't answered a question with regard to li wenliang. you talk about the cover—up. that's not true. you know, dr zhang reported through a normal channel to health authorities, but li spread the word among his friends. you know, in an independent country, when you have something, the virus, which is dangerous to people's health, when something unknown, there always — there might be a panic. so i think the police authority summoned li, to warn him not to do it. you can't say this is a cover—up since on the official channel, you know, we report through the normal channel, but on this, we need to make sure that there should be no panic. you know, even today in uk... but the evidence... i think your government is fighting about this misinformation. you know, some people try to use

this to create panic for their own gain. but we have... i think li's case is closed. and then, you know, after it's reported to the central authorities, the government sent an investigation team down to wuhan and find out that li did the right thing, you know, and the police reprimand has been revoked and li was made martyr and given the highest honour... dr li was indeed regarded by the chinese people as a hero when he died. not only the chinese people, but also regarded by the chinese government. ah, but with respect — with respect, i think the people of china are very aware, and i come back to it, that the chinese government wasn't straight with them, nor with the outside world.

just tell me if you can one more time why on january 14 the national health commission document that was an internal document was labelled not to be spread on the internet, not to be publicly disclosed in which they said that there was evidence of human—to—human transmission, clustered cases, a severe and complex problem. why is it that the very next day — i come back to it — that one of your most senior officials... i think all your information are coming from washington post. i think you depend on too much on american media. you know, i really hope you depend on who for information. we share all this information with the who. you know, i saw...i saw your interview, and i think china has been straightforward, transparent and quickest in terms of sharing information with the who. of course, inside china, we have to take precautions, measures, we have to take strict conventional measures to fight against this virus. it is still unknown then, so people do not know what will happen, what

this virus is about. the thing is, ambassador... on the one hand, we share our knowledge, our understanding with the who, with the other countries... but, ambassador, your problem is — and you're a very senior diplomat, you know this is a problem — that many people around the world simply don't believe the chinese version of events. donald trump, only a few hours ago, said that he is not happy at all with china's stance. "they could've stopped the virus at the source," he said. "we are undertaking a thorough investigation. " and the vice president, mike pence, has listed a whole host of reasons why the united states believes that china was not straight with the world and is, therefore, culpable for the fact this pandemic is now causing so much death

and so much economic damage right around the world. you have, as china, a massive problem now. i don't think so. i think when you say china has a massive problem, i think you are more talking about western world. ithink, you know, since the outbreak, china has a very strong cooperation with the who and with many other countries. you know, we sent technical assistance and experts to — and provided medical supplies for more than 150 countries. all of them spoke highly of china's efforts. so, i can't say united states represents the world, and even in the western world, we've been receiving appraisal, praise from the countries like united kingdom, from france, from germany. you quote president trump. let me also quote him, you know

about his comment about china. on january 2a — that was one month after we reported — almost one month we found this virus, he said, "the united states greatly appreciates china's efforts and the transparency. " so, six days later, and he said, "they are working very hard and we are working very closely with china... he said, "they are doing a greatjob. they handled it well." things have changed a great deal since the end ofjanuary, and china, it has to be said, you say, "look at what we've done to deliver medical assistance and equipment around the world." what many people see is china running a campaign of disinformation and propaganda around the world in recent weeks. you say we have a great relationship with france. the french just called in your counterpart,

the chinese ambassador in france, accusing him of spreading disinformation because the embassy website in paris is claiming that old people in care homes in france are being abandoned to suffer and die alone. that's a colleague of yours. another colleague of yours in the foreign ministry used social media to promote the conspiracy theory that the us military had smuggled coronavirus into china. why is your country running this disinformation campaign? i think you picked a wrong target. it's not china who start this campaign of disinformation. you can compare china's statement, comments by china's leaders, chinese diplomats, chinese ambassadors with american counterparts. you will know who is spreading disinformation. you know, if you read the comments... do you agree — hang

on — do you agree... do you agree with the foreign ministry spokesman who did put up the link suggesting that the us military had smuggled coronavirus into china ? is that something that you also believe? i think what you're saying is he retweeted some comment by some media reports. you know that i do not know why you focus on some comments by intermediaries in china, but you miss the disinformation by senior officials, by even the national leaders of the united states, you know, start this campaign of disinformation, especially by the top diplomat, you know, secretary of state. i think when this comes to china, there are no good words about china, and chinese are regarded as evil, not as a country which is lending a helping hand for americans in the fight against this virus.

i do not quite understand. in your view, ambassador, how deep is the crisis with the united states right now, that has been sparked by all of the accusations that have arisen from coronavirus? how deep is the diplomatic crisis? we certainly want to have a good relation with united states. you know, i've been posted twice in washington, dc. i always believe that china and united states will gain from co—operation and lose from confrontation. and we have every reason to have a good relation with the united states, but it has to be based on mutual trust, coordination, not confrontation. but you need two to tango. and since the outbreak, i think president xi and president trump keep very close contact. the have two telephone conversations, they compare notes,

and just like president xi had two telephone conversation with prime ministerjohnson. you know, we want to build an international response to this virus. i just want to let americans know that china is not the enemy of the united states. it's the virus! the virus is the enemy of the united states. they need to find the right target. it's a very important message you're sending. maybe china could consider some gestures that would improve relations with not just the united states, but many other countries, including australia and the uk, who've made the same point to your government. one, will you now categorically guarantee to close down the so—called wet markets, that there will no longer the sale of these live wild animals in the food markets that are known as the wet markets? is that now something that has been banned, notjust short term, but absolutely banned forever in china?

first, come to your first point about many countries. i cannot agree with you that china has a problem with many countries. and i think — i would say we have more friends than opponents, even than enemies. you know, i, as i said, western countries, a few, i would say, western countries, do not represent the world. i think china enjoys good relationships and i think we are building an international response. we are building... you know, president xi said... ambassador, we're short on time. i find may, ambassador, ijust need specific answers. on the wet markets — are they now closed for good, yes or no? there's no such thing about wet markets. this is a western — foreign notion to many chinese. we do have a fresh market where the fresh vegetables, fresh seafood, fish,

are sold and some live poultry, that's very rarely. i think you're talking about the market, the so—called illegal market for selling wildlife. that has been totally banned. and the law has been passed that it will be banned permanently. so, ambassador, that is, therefore, a recognition, yes? ijust want to be clear — a recognition on your government's part that the dangers of those markets where live wild animals were sold alongside other foodstuffs, they were dangers that did cause the spread of coronavirus from animals to humans? i agree with that. finally, we have a few points to agree with. i'm very pleased with that. that's why this market — we are talking about wildlife market — it is totally banned. you know, it's illegal to hunt, to treat, to eat even, so...

people watching this, ambassador, will only wish that you'd made that ban real before coronavirus spread and caused such terrible damage around the world. are you in any way now prepared to say sorry for is happened? no, you come to your first point again. you cannot blame china for coronavirus. that's the problem with this argument. it was found in china, it was found in many places. places that have no connection with china at all. so, you can't point yourfingers at china for the outbreak, and we have done our best capability. china is a victim of the coronavirus. china is not a source of this problem. china is not the producer of this epidemic. that is something we have to come clean about. china, you know ambassador, is seen for example by leading

politicians in this country like the chairman of the parliamentary foreign affairs select committee as very much the cause. he has talked about a soviet—style system, a toxic system inside your government, inside your machine which he says —— regime, has been responsible not just for betraying the chinese people and their health and well—being but betraying the wider world as well. and there are now calls for the united kingdom and also calls in the united states and other countries for a disengagement from close economic ties with china. in britain, it is centred on huawei and your telecoms giant activities in the sg sector. people saying that should no longer be tolerated in the united kingdom. as the ambassador in the uk, are you worried that there is going to be now an economic disengagement? yes and no.

i think you talk about this person as very senior politicians. but i don't think this view represents official positions of the uk government. i think the uk government and prime ministerjohnson are still committed to a stronger partnership with china. in his telephone conversations, he reaffirmed the uk's commitment to build a golden era with china. we do have a very good cooperation with the uk side, even throughout this outbreak, in addition to communication, intensive communication. i have been here for ten years as the chinese ambassador. i have never seen our top leaders have never seen such intensive communications. and on a ministerial level, we have a foreign minister,

one state counsellor with secretary dominic raab and the director has a close contact with others. and i here in london have very close contact with the secretaries including matt hancock and alloc sharma, foreign secretary dominic raab, we have a strong relationship. you quote those people, soviets for example. i think there is totally a cold war mentality. we are living in the third decade of the 21st century, but those people still believe in old days, when they were fighting the cold war. china is not former soviet union. i think china and uk... we are united by common interests then divided by other differences. i am very confident about this relationship. ambassador, we have to end it there, but i do thank you very much indeed forjoining me here on hardtalk at this difficult time. liu xiaoming, thank you very much indeed. my pleasure.

hello there. well, we may have had to wait right till end of april, but yesterday's storms were quite impressive. the radar picture shows just how widespread those showers were, nowhere immune from seeing several downpours through the day. but some of the showers were particularly impressive. from this mammatus cloud — the sign of very active convection in wiltshire — to pea—sized hail falling from those thunderclouds in buckinghamshire, and further north in scotland, we had this funnel cloud dropping from stormclouds in dumfries and galloway. now, over the next few hours

there are still a few showers dotted around in northern england, wales, northern ireland and northern scotland, too. it's not too cold, though, for most of us. we are looking at temperatures around 4—7 celsius. low pressure, then, still in charge of our weather and as we head into friday and it's another day where nowhere‘s immune from seeing a shower or two. even across parts of southern england there will be some further showers driven along by a fairly brisk wind here, but the heaviest showers throughout the day will be across northern ireland, into northern scotland and england. it's across these areas through the afternoon you are most likely to see some flashes of lightning, rumbles of thunder and a bit of hail mixed in. there will be some sunshine around but some of the showers across the north of the uk will be slow—moving, so, some fairly lengthy downpours as well. now, this weekend the winds will tend to fall much lighter and there will still be some showers around — particularly across the north and east. some sunshine but it

will be quite cloudy at times, too. on saturday we start with some morning sunshine but clouds will develop and it will turn quite cloudy towards the middle part of the day and early afternoon. there will be some showers around northern and eastern scotland, some running into parts of northern and east england as well. temperatures, looking at highs for many of us about 14—17 celsius. we start again fine on sunday but cloud builds across the sky into the early part of the afternoon and again there are still some showers to come, particularly across northern and eastern scotland again and running into parts of north—east england. temperatures very similar to most of us, highs between 14—17 celsius, so it is going to be relatively mild. now, the forecast into next week, the weather is going to settle down more. there will be a bit more sunshine to look forward to and temperatures rising a few degrees as well.

this is bbc news — i'm maryam moshiri — with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. as beijing reopens its forboidden city to tourists, —— as beijing reopens its forbidden city to tourists, president trump says china will be held accountable for the pandemic. they could have stopped it. they are a very brilliant nation, scientifically and otherwise. it got loose, let's say, and they could have kept it, they could have stopped it, but they didn't. surviving covid in india, but six weeks into its lockdown millions of poor who rely on daily wages face extreme poverty.