crowds of protesters have gathered for a sixth day in cities across the united states following the killing by police of an african—american man george floyd. curfews have been imposed in more than 20 cities to try to stop the violence. in the capital, activists have gathered outside the white house. there have been packed beaches at sun—drenched british resorts as ministers announced an easing of the english lockdown starting later on monday. the government says they are "reasonably confident" the measures will be "manageable". some gps have raised concerns about a second wave of infections. brazil has overtaken france as the country with the fourth—highest death toll from coronavirus. nearly 29,000 people have died in south america's biggest country. there have been clashes between police and anti—government protesters demanding the resignation or impeachment of the president over his handling of the pandemic. now on bbc news, hardtalk.

welcome to hardtalk. i am stephen sackur. in some countries, the coronavirus pandemic has enhanced unity and solidarity. in others, it has exposed deep fault lines. in india, it is the poor migrant workers who have been hardest hit by the crisis, which has also seen heightened tensions in the hindu majority and the muslim minority. my guest today is a general secretary of the ruling hindu nationalist bjp party, ram madhav. it is prime minister modi stoking intercommunal tensions even in this time of national emergency?

ram madhav in delhi, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. let us begin with the coronavirus situation in your country. 0fficials with the coronavirus situation in your country. officials in your government have proclaimed the success government have proclaimed the success of your lot down policy, have pointed to a relatively low number of deaths, but right now, we see the curve, the infection rate curve in india seems to be rising, and rising alarmingly. do you think your government has been complacent? we are 15% of the world's population. yet if you look at the rate of the affected people in india, it is very low and you are right, that the very rise in numbers very simply, but if you look at this period during the type of lockdown, the first four weeks, it was

strictly under control. as we relax the block down a little bit, there isa the block down a little bit, there is a little rise in the cases, but it is very much limited to a few areas and contained in that sense. that is what worries some of the scientists, epidemiologists in that country, that you are easing the down very significantly in large parts of the country while, to quote an epidemiologist at the university of michigan who watches india's case very closely, he said, we see no flattening of the india curve. so why is the lockdown that not ease the lockdown so significantly now? certain diameters are very much in place even now. there are re— lacerations in some of the industries, they have been allowed to restart. but let me tell you ——

relaxation is. let me tell you, we did not have enough preparation in terms of healthcare facilities. but six to eight weeks down the line, we are fully prepared, i can tell you today we are ready 900,000 beds, we have hospitals ready, we are taking full precautions, we are quarantining people who are returning from destinations, we have not lapsed in precautions. perhaps the worst way anything at all about the worst way anything at all about the indian situation is the extent to which your sudden dramatic lockdown all those weeks ago forced millions of your poorest people, migrant workers in the big cities to head for home. the famous indian writer has written, the lock down works like a chemical experiment that suddenly illuminated many hidden things. the urban poor were driven out by employers and landlords, millions of impoverished

—— impoverished, thirsty, hungry people, including the old and young and sick, were forced to attempt a long walk home. they are now homes, the lucky ones who made it, and they are infecting other people in those parts of your country least able to deal with the pandemic. that is a pretty exaggerated statement i tell you. you see the lockdown that was announced on the 24th and 25th at midnight. the decision taken at the right time, the health scare of 1.3 billion indians. that is only held in managing the spread of the virus ina very in managing the spread of the virus in a very significant way. it is now restricted to a few pockets in the country, that was essentially because of the timely lockdown. now, migrant workers, let me give you

some information before we descend upon the impact of it. india has 120 million migrant workers. 0ut upon the impact of it. india has 120 million migrant workers. out of that, about 80 million work in other states tha n that, about 80 million work in other states than their home state. it is bigger than the entire population of the uk. 0ut bigger than the entire population of the uk. out of that, the majority of them i would say about 90% of them still have not undertaken this particular journey, still have not undertaken this particularjourney, but, yes, you are right, about 4 million, 5 million people have taken to the streets to get to the destination. how do you feel about the members of your own party, the ruling party, the bjp, who have specifically explicitly blamed muslims for spreading coronavirus? firstly, let me tell you in this fight against the virus, 1.3

me tell you in this fight against the virus,1.3 billion me tell you in this fight against the virus, 1.3 billion people of india are united and together. all the differences... know, that is clearly not true. you are not united. it is wrong. we do not endorse it, nor do we support that statement. what has happened to the local bjp leader who is known for his intemperate language who tweeted, and this is a quote, the people from the religious organisation who held a meeting in south delhi at the beginning of all this, these people, he says, have begun spitting on doctors and other health workers. it is clear that the aim of these people is to infect as many people as possible with coronavirus and kill them. he has referred to coronavirus terrorists, and he means muslims. yes, those

state m e nts and he means muslims. yes, those statements are wrong. we have cautioned or warned if they are indulging in any such statement. i would like to make one submission. sometimes some people talk about the bla key jamal, please don't sometimes some people talk about the blakey jamal, please don't take it they are talking about the entire muslim community. within the muslim community, there is a large sector of the people in india and elsewhere who don't approve of those in india. —— tablighi jamaat. who don't approve of those in india. -- tablighijamaat. i who don't approve of those in india. -- tablighi jamaat. i want to know what the bjp is doing. the communal violence that we have seen since the beginning of the coronavirus epidemic in your country, for example, to muslim civilians who volunteered to distribute food and

emergency aid in their communities, they were attacked by a gang of bjp activists on april the fourth. what have you done to punish those people who attract the volunteers, and also, to ensure it never happens ain? also, to ensure it never happens again? certainly, any such act of violence will be punished, and in what you are saying is true, certainly take action. but it me tell you for information, in india, 4 million were attacked, so many volu nta ry workers 4 million were attacked, so many voluntary workers were attacked, police officers, their arms were chopped off, things have happened during the lockdown. i am not talking in terms of which religion has done it. whoever does such things will be punished in india. we shall never approve of any such

activities. what do you say to a nalysts activities. what do you say to analysts who study your communal relations inside india very closely, like people who say the government has seized the opportunity of the lock down and the coronavirus crisis to go after muslim activists? totally baseless. as far as we are concerned, the government is concerned, the government is concerned in this fight we are together. you see the ratings of the prime minister by independent agencies above 90%, 90% is not a hindu population in india. that means everybody support the actions, the decisions that the government is taking because it is to help the entire population. in india we do not approve or do not see any communal kind of situation or any communal kind of situation or any communal conflict happening. you seem communal conflict happening. you seem to be living in a parallel universe and many indians, particular muslim indians. are you

not aware that just last particular muslim indians. are you not aware thatjust last month the bj p not aware thatjust last month the mpmp not aware thatjust last month the bjp mp swami said muslims, if they become anything like 30% of our population, will be a danger to the country. muslims, he said, are not in an equal category. this is the language of pure discrimination, and it is coming from senior figures language of pure discrimination, and it is coming from seniorfigures in your party. 0k, it is coming from seniorfigures in your party. ok, now it is coming from seniorfigures in your party. 0k, nowl have not directly seen that statement. i think that what you are saying is true, but you will be careful not to use this. having said that, we do not approve of any such sentiments, any such statements in the country, people who make the statement, but other parties and governments, we shall not approve of any such state m e nts shall not approve of any such statements targeted at any community oi’ statements targeted at any community orany statements targeted at any community or any religion. again, ijust wonder on what basis you are telling me all this stuff about harmony and

unity in india today. are you not aware of that fallout from your own government citizenship amendment act has included the office of the un high commissioner for human has included the office of the un high commissionerfor human rights calling that legislation, which causes fundamental to your government puzzlement programme, called it " fundamentally discriminatory. " called it " fundamentally discriminatory." a lot of disinformation and lack of knowledge about that leading people to make all sorts ofjudgement. let me tell you fourth of all, number one, provoke the amendment act does not apply to a single indian. you know that? 1.3 billion indians, out of 200 million of that, it does in no way affect them. secondly and most importantly,... your way affect them. secondly and most importantly, . .. your message way affect them. secondly and most importantly,... your message does not discrimination. no, your message

to the world is quite clear that you make a distinct category for muslim people, in this case, it is a case of people who come from neighbouring state into india, you give the right to non— muslims to a fast track citizenship, which you specifically and explicitly denied to muslims. yes, america has done to certain sections, vietnam, ifi yes, america has done to certain sections, vietnam, if i am not wrong, even spain has done to certain jewish people wrong, even spain has done to certainjewish people of wrong, even spain has done to certain jewish people of the wrong, even spain has done to certainjewish people of the second world war time, citizenship hasjust been fast tracked. nobody is denied citizenship in india. if one qualifies for example, i tell you, at least close to 15 pakistani citizens have acquired citizenship.

ido citizens have acquired citizenship. i do not want to misunderstand you all put words in your mouth, but when you start telling me about the way in which germany or austria treated the jewish. .. way in which germany or austria treated thejewish... i begin to wonder what you are driving at. for example, i was very struck yesterday that your prime minister, mr moody, paid fulsome tribute to one of the great ideologues, in mr modi puzzlement view of the hindu movement, which of course your previous organisation and your current part of the bjp is very much a part of. mr modi said that he showed extraordinary courage and leadership. we know in 1939, they expressed sympathy for what the germans were doing to thejewish and said that our muslims in india are very much like thejewish people of germany. there are many people around the world who find this sort of ideological connection and

background to the bjp and the rss to be deeply and profoundly disturbing. you have totally misunderstood that philosophy. he was for the greater unity of all the indian citizens with respect to all religion. that is the reason why even leaders such as gandhi also praised his vision for the nation. he was one leader who was given a 50 yearjail term by the british during colonial rule in india. he fought for independence. so he is one of the misunderstood leaders in india. so here's misunderstood because his sympathy for what the nazis were doing was 0k? no, he was not sympathetic to

nazis at all. that is a great misinformation that is spread about him. forgive me, but it is notjust critics outside the country that are deeply disturbed by some of the ideology they hear from the rss and the bjp. here is mahatma gandhi's great—grandson. he said the bjp and the rss right—wing groupings have polarised indian society and presents a grave danger. the danger is that in ten years time this country won't be india anymore — it will be a fascist dictatorship. those are the words of mr gandhi's great—grandson today. those are the words of mr gandhi's great-grandson today. that would be his personal opinion. mahatma gandhi himself attended a rss rally. he created the discipline of the rss. he said, the work i am doing for the uplift of the country, the rss is

doing — it is removing this from society. i fully appreciate that it is not what mahatma gandhi himself said. his grandson, some of them are in our party, for your information, so in our party, for your information, so don't go by one statement. there are different views. india is a democracy with totally different views. that is their personal views. 0n views. that is their personal views. on another point, one more quote from you from mss golwalkar, another senior leader from from you from mss golwalkar, another senior leaderfrom your organisation. he wrote admiringly about what the nazis were doing in 1939. he said, quote, to keep up the purity of its recent culture, germany shocked the world by purging the country of the dues. it was national pride at its highest, said mr golwalkar. that book was disowned

by mr golwalkar immediately. secondly, he already said it was shocking — i don't know how shocking becomes praise. he said it was shocking to see this kind of behaviour in the name of nationalism. the rss has never, ever approved of nazis or fascists. although supremacist ideology. they have always sided with the persecuted jewish people. even to this day we believe the persecution happened against the jewish people and was one of the worst crimes of the 20th century. one more thought on this, and then i want to move on. if you are so sure there is not racism, deep discrimination and communal hate at the heart of your party and movement's ideology, how do you react when your own home minister, amit shah, describes migrants from muslim majority bangladesh living in india as,

quote, termites who will be thrown into the bay of bengal. it is the classic technique of othering and dehumanising those who regard as second—class. how do you react to it yourself? that statement was taken out of context. what was the right context? hang on, you tell me, what is the right context for calling a human being a termite? please tell me, how can illegal migrants be persecuted on account of religion by definition? they are not welcome in india, and we are taking certain measures, but that is taken out of context, which is not correct. you think it is justified to call albeit an illegal migrants, a muslim, a termite, and insect? in the context, a termite, all these words are taken

com pletely a termite, all these words are taken completely out of context — that's what i am saying. what we tried to do was to regulate the flow into india. it is done by every country, not just india. it is done by every country, notjust india. india. it is done by every country, not just india. every india. it is done by every country, notjust india. every country that suffers from illegal migrants, that is essentially what we are doing. not ina is essentially what we are doing. not in a humanitarian spirit or anything. we have humanitarian sentiments about every person — to save their people and livelihoods from illegal immigrants.” save their people and livelihoods from illegal immigrants. i want to briefly, if i may, before we finished touch on kashmir. last august you revoked article 370 from the constitution, the special status for kashmir. you sent thousands and thousands of troops into the territory and arrested a large number of kashmiri political leaders. we interviewed shah faisal

in india, not kashmir. he spoke to us, i believe, from delhi. he was arrested hours after talking to us. he is still in detention today. this month his detention has been extended. he is a so—called moderate leader, a civilian politician, a kashmiri who is proud to be kashmiri. why on earth is he in detention today? many people have been detained immediately after the important decision that we took on the fifth of august to nullify the impact of article 370. now, most of them have been sent free. mr faisal and a few others, four or five of them, are still held under the public safety act, but i tell you, these are measures taken based on best information. but they will be

set free very soon. hundreds have been set free. they are all set free no. and mr been set free. they are all set free no. and mer been set free. they are all set free no. and mr mr faisal... there is no... there is nojustification for it, really, is they are, mr madhav? north for the continued control of the internet, 4g services severely restricted, when doctors in kashmir say they need the greatest access possible to the internet and public and health information on the internet to deal with the coronavirus crisis. what kind of humanitarians are you in the indian government that won't even allow doctors to use the in kashmir? you should check the reality before accusing us of being inhuman and all that. doctors in our medical centres, we have broadband services fully available. they are fully working in all public institutions.

it is only on hand—held mobile devices that 4g is not available. so calling it inhuman is far—fetched. you should not do that. having said that, the kashmiri healthcare establishment is doing a phenomenal job. they are taking care of the covid—19 patients effectively. they have all services available. broadband is fully available in every public institution in kashmir. and full service will be restored very soon. and full service will be restored very soon. right now because of coronavirus your economy is facing contraction this year, you have rising tensions on your border, not just with pakistan but also now with china, where you have got a military stand—off in ladak with chinese forces on the disputed border. suddenly the bjp's programme for india is running into serious

trouble. would you agree? the economy is a global challenge. as far as economy is a global challenge. as faras india is economy is a global challenge. as far as india is concerned, we have allotted plans and we have decisions to make. hopefully in two or three quarters' time we will come back to a better gdp growth rate. having said that, other issues, like the issues happening on the borders, are clearly not finished, and the government is aware of these matters. let me tell you, in the past we have had problems on the indo tibetan border with china, and we have relationships to tackle them. diplomatically and through the ground, we have taken a firm stance, but we are practically engaged with the chinese leadership. mr madhav, we must and they are, but i thank you forjoining me from delhi. thank

you. my pleasure. hello again. sunday was another very warm day nationwide, and capping off a very sunny weekend was a beautiful sunset to end the day in the herefordshire area. the top temperature was 28 degrees in porthmadog, making it wales's hottest day of the year so far, and only three tenths from the highest temperature we've seen in the uk this year. at the moment we've got clear, starry skies out and about. a few mist and fog patches possible later on across coastal parts of scotland and north—east england, but probably not too many of these. temperatures first thing,

eight to 13 degrees in towns and cities and cooler than that in the countryside first thing, but what you will notice early on monday is we've got plenty of sunshine. into the afternoon, a bit of fair weather cloud popping up into the sky, so some sunny spells, the cloud not spoiling the sunshine at all, really, and another day when we will see the temperatures climbing widely into the low to mid 20s, probably peaking at around 27 celsius in some western areas. so more very warm and sunny weather on the way for monday. looking at the weather charts for tuesday now, we have something of a change on the way. that change, as this cold front approaches northern scotland, bringing some thicker cloud here, and yes, outbreaks of rain on the way. i know some of you have wanted rain for a while. that rain will be accompanied by cool northerly winds, so temperatures for northern scotland significantly lower on tuesday with highs of 13 in stornoway. for northern ireland, southern scotland, england and wales, this is the last

of the very warm days and plenty of sunshine again with temperatures widely low to mid 20s, but into the middle part of the week, it set to turn much cooler, and there is the prospect of seeing some rain. on wednesday, we've got a trough crossing the uk, bringing a mixture of rain and showers. as that moves through, the northerly winds that follow will be dragging on some much cooler air as we enter the week, so temperatures progressively will be dropping. many areas will see outbreaks of rain. closest to that area of low pressure the rain will be heaviest across parts of northern scotland, maybe northern ireland too. the amount of rain we see further south will vary from place to place but most places will see some rain towards the end of the week.

this is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. i'm aaron safir. protests against police brutality continue right across the us following the killing of an unarmed black man a week ago. curfews have been imposed in more than 20 cities. in the capital activists gather outside the white house, calling for justice for all the victims of police attacks. this is the situation in new york, where protesters are making their way through lower manhattan towards times square. packed beaches at sunny british resorts. ministers announce an easing of the english lockdown, starting on monday. brazil overtakes france as the country with the fourth highest death toll from coronavirus.