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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  June 18, 2020 12:30am-1:01am BST

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a former police officer in the us state of georgia has been charged with the murder of rayshard brooks. the unarmed african—american was shot twice in the back — as he fled from two white officers in atlanta. garrett rolfe was sacked from the police force shortly after the shooting. president trump's former national security adviser, john bolton claims the president tried to get china's leader to help him secure re—election. mr bolton also claims that mr trump said china should go ahead with building detention camps to hold uigjur muslims. the white house is trying to prevent the book's publication. after nearly two months with no coronavirus infections, the chinese capital beijing is being placed under another lockdown. restrictions on movements have been re—introduced, to try to contain a new outbreak which emerged a week ago. now on bbc news — hardtalk.
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welcome to hardtalk. i am stephen sackur. it has not prompted a united collaborative response and the multilateral institutions that have defined are era look that have defined our era look increasingly fragile. our guest is spain's foreign minister, arancha foreign minister, arancha gonzalez. has europe come to terms with increasingly defined by american and chinese nationalism?
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foreign minister arancha gonzalez. welcome to hardtalk. great to be with you. let us start with the latest on the coronavirus pandemic in spain. is your country ready to declare that your national emergency is over? we will be ending state of alarm in spain on the 21st ofjune. but i do not think we can claim victory against covid—19 until we have a vaccine or a treatment, we have to remain vigilant. so, we will end the harsh measures we took to control covid—19 in spain, but we will keep everyone on the alert to make sure that we can open spaces for freedom, for free circulation, for people's contacts and we will keep covid—19 under control. with the spanish central bank predicting that your country predicting that your economy
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could contract between nine and 11% in 2020, would it be fair to say that your prime concern right now has perhaps switched from the public health crisis, which is easing, to a national economic crisis which is very deep? indeed, but i would say that this is not the spanish economic crisis. this is a worldwide crisis and it does not matter how good your economy was at the beginning of the crisis, we for example in spain were growing a vast average, we are creating jobs, we were making much reforms but we have all been impacted by this crisis and this is what we call a systemic shock. it is love different ramifications depending on the country, but we are all being hit hard and this is why when spain thinks the wisest decision will be to work in concert and co—operate to exit this crisis as soon as we can.
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is spain beginning to rush things little bit? the government will open borders to eu travel on july 1st, and suddenly 2a hours ago, you said no, you will do it byjune 21. it seems that your travel and tourism sector is taking priority over everything else. you are so desperate to get the economy moving. this is not correct. we have always said we'll look at the data and the preparedness of our regions to face a second wave. this is what is driving the decisions in spain. other european union member states have decided to open gradually on the 1st ofjune, some others on the 15th ofjune and we decided to take a little bit longer, one week longer but make sure that we do this and that we open the country and the economy and gradually, depending on the state of affairs in spain. we need to make sure
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that we tell our citizens that we can open in safety for themselves and for anybody else coming to spain, we want to know is a country that was open but is safe. it looks like there some anomalous situations with the united kingdom wherebyjune 21, you and spain are saying that all british visitors are welcome to come and there will not be quarantine or restrictions. and yet, at the same time the british government the same from anybody at spain since are going to two weeks of quarantine and the irony here is that the british right now, the coronavirus infection rate and death toll is much higher than that in spain. so, it looks entirely anomalous. are you happy to live with a situation where the brits and post—quara ntines on travellers in spain?
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we are not letting people come unchecked into the country. people will be open the borders on the 21st ofjune, we will still have control of the borders. we will still be checking citizen's temperatures. and we will be asking every person entering the country to register and to give us a contact where we can be in touch in case they declare that they have the symptoms of the virus. there will be an ability to trace the contacts of this person and there will be hygiene measures from entry to exit and it is not like we're going back to our old norms, we have introduced measures to make sure that we guarantee safety and health for the citizens. just this one point, on the mandatory quarantine that spanish visitors to the uk will have to experience,
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does it seem to you that it is not right and it is not fair that this be the situation for spaniards entering britain but for brits entering spain, there's no quarantine. is that tenable? all of these measures that we are all adapting to the circumstances, will be checking with the uk will be we will be checking with the uk will be doing and we will be in dialogue with the uk to see whether or not we should be introducing reciprocity as they have different measures than the rest of the european union. but, for the members of the european union, we have decided that the best way is to do away with the quarantine measures. we will have them under this 22nd ofjune and after that we will remove them. should the uk want to keep them beyond that date for reasons that deal with their own view of health, then we will respect this,
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but we will probably reciprocate. in other words, all of this is a moving target that we have to keep on adjusting and the most important ingredient being is that we respect what scientists are telling us and to act accordingly. but you say you will probably reciprocate if the uk government does not change its current two week quarantine rule and you'll probably reciprocate and impose that on people from the uk coming to your country. that is an option if you think that this is necessary to guarantee that health and safety of those britons coming into spain but the situation is very fluid, so rather than speculating, what we would like to do is probably engaged in a dialogue with the uk authorities to make sure that we both take the measures that best correspond to the health situation which is a bit better
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in the spain than the uk, but by the time you open the borders of leave the situation will be better. the ramifications of this crisis for spain, the nation state. we have seen that it is impacted different parts of spain and the catalans appeared to have concluded that the coronavirus has yet again, in their view, shown the need for an independent catalan state, they stated they would've handled the epidemic in a much more efficient way than the madrid national government did. do you feel that yet again, the integrated nature of the spanish nation has come under threat here? that is a very interesting comment but i would say that catalans are, since 1981, free to run their health care. they have independent management of their health care system. so, it simply is not true.
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they have been running their health ca re system, ca pa ble to purchase their products, capable to purchase their medicines, contract their personnel, organise their hospital in the best way possible and when they cannot do that, the spanish government, including the army, has been present to support them. in spain, we have a decentralised system of governance. where the regions in spain, the 17 regions have autonomy over the management of the health care systems. and this is not changed with the pandemic, the only thing we have done is ensure that the central, the ministry for health in the central government could co—ordinate better, the actions of the different regions, but the regions have remained free to manage covid—19 in the best possible. in the past, you have negotiated with catala ns regional leaders to get past the impasse that we have seen
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for so long between catalans, politics and madrid's politics. there is no sign of any meaningful negotiation resuming and the catalans say that it canl not happen until you release the nine political prisoners that have been imprisoned on charges of sedition. is there any likelihood that your government will release his people and engage in meaningful negotiation? first of all, in spain, regarding the ofjustice, it is notjust them to tell them what to do. they are independent, like in a democracy, they decide for themselves. on the dialogue, it is true that before covid—19, there was already a dialogue between the central government and catalonia, the only difference is covid—19 change the priorities.
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it would've been a priority in february, it was no longer a priority in march because the national priority in spain, like universe the world was all energy, all hands on deck to address the coronavirus. but the prime minister has already indicated that he is open to re—engage in a dialogue with the catalans in order to advance whatever issues need to be discussed and we would do this before covid—19, calmly, openly and democratically, which is the basis of our nation. but it will not go anywhere unless those nine individuals that catalans insist are political prisoners are freed. i strongly refute the fact that they are political prisoners in spain.
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we are in the 21st century, there are no political prisoners in our country. but i would also like to remind you and through you, all of the viewers that in spain, the justice system is an independentjustice system. you have made that point, but let us move away from the national scene to the european scene. you worked for the european commission and you are a strong advocate of a strong eu, an integrated eu. would you say that the coronavirus issue was a disaster for the european union with the signal lack of solidarity? the european union has very few competences in the area of health. so it is true that at the beginning of this pandemic, which is a health crisis at the end of the day, there was some hesitation on the eu institution's side, but this did not last long because we soon realised what was a health crisis posed
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a threat to the three fundamental ingredients of the european union. one was the movement of people, circulation within the eu, second, it was a threat to the internal market at the beginning of covid—19, a number of countries decided to take measures to restrict circulation of medicines or protective equipment within the eu, something that should not be done. and the third threat, and it is a fundamental one, was the threat to the economic and fundamental union. this is why after this, the response that the european institutions have given to covid—19 has been swift, has been robust and we are not yet there and that there is missing part that we are still trying to construct. but i would say that in europe, we learn the lessons from 2008 and this time around, we have been better prepared
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to face this pandemic. that is a very positive spin because we have the eu commission come out with a proposal to find on the financial market, more than submission 50 billion euros of borrowed money to pump into those countries worst affected by coronavirus and that would include spain but there is no information on this recovery fund at all. it was to be a part of the next eu budget and it will require the unanimous agreement for 27 member states and it is clear that at least four of them are simply not prepared to accept it because they see it as an unacceptable form of debt mutualisation. it is true that we still have work to do on two fundamental pieces for the medium of the european economy, one is the budget for the next seven years and the other one is the recovery fund.
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these fundamental ingredient, notjust for spain or italy, france or greece, this is also fundamental ingredients for austria, the netherlands, denmark or sweden, because what is at stake here is the solidity of the european union internal market and this is the market that belongs to all the europeans and this is the market that we need to leverage to have a rapid exit from the crisis. we understand that you and madrid are eager to make this happen because you will benefit from it. but this will be a back door plan to avoid new borrowings. new borrowings to get yourselves out of the mess that you're currently and in the northern nations do not want to do it. that is the reality. i will question that assertion because the sun i will question that assertion because it is not like the beneficiaries of this recovery fund in eu budget would only be spain, france or italy or greece. for every euro that is invested in the european union, it gets double the benefit
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and the internal market than a spaniard or an italian. we should be doing the right account. we should be running the right account. we should be explaining to our citizens that this common investment is as much as important into a spaniard as it is to a dutch. because at the end of the day is the we will all be, irrespective of where we are sitting, whether we're sitting in the north or in the south, suffer the consequences of a slow recovery. the pm and the netherlands still says the pm and the netherlands still they said that this has to be about loans rather than neutralisation of debt and as you know, you said that a few weeks ago, this has to happen urgently because it still has not happened and it's going to be knocked to the next leader's summit and the snow sign
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of agreement on this. so, you're in big trouble. i do not think, i would not agree with your characterisation. but we are trying to do now is build the consensus. building consensus in europe is long, arduous and studious. but that is how you get to a deal. ba rely but that is how you get to a deal. barely three months ago he said we needed a big marshall plan for europe and here we are three months later, discussing the contours of this plan. so, i do not spend too much time arguing and we have to spend much more time doing. building the consensus that will get us to have a recovery instrument to help our citizens. workers and business people alike.
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this is stuck in an impasse and this is negotiation between the eu in the united kingdom on what a trade deal might look like we are currently in a transition period and it is now clear that there is no extension of transition so it will end at the end of 2020 and looking at the words of the chief eu negotiator and boris johnson on his team, it looks like there's going to be no negotiated trade deal. looks like the uk may formally end its relationship with a return to wto trade rules in its relations with the eu. that would be a disasterfor the eu economy at a time where your economy is very vulnerable. how worried are you? we are at a time of incredible turmoil. the economies of the world, including the uk and europe are going through turmoil. we do have
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such a situation, we do have such a the last thing you want is to add this. your responsibility, our collective responsibility, is to add stability to the global economy. and we at this stability by negotiating the terms outside of the european union with the eu. this is how the message is pretty simple. sit down and start negotiating. it is a message that we in spain, as part of the eu, barnier has been giving this to the uk and the uk will not for an extension of this deadline. but if this is the case, let us simply sit quickly and start negotiating. let us make sure we add a stability to our economies to not add more volatility. this is what negotiators do.
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michael gove said that he thought the coronavirus pandemic and its effect on the european economy would focus european minds and making the concessions necessary to get a deal. is he correct? i think a negotiation is an affair between two. it takes two to tango and what we need is a disposition on the uk side and have a clear sense of moving those negotiations forward. before we end about geopolitics, how do you feel about the relationship between what was your strongest transatlantic partner, the united states of america. we have donald trump's administration withdrawing from the world health organisation and in the last few days, we've had the united states talking about imposing new sanctions on officials from the international criminal court, calling it corrupt. you are the foreign minister of spain, how worried are you about the deteriorating
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relationship between donald trump's whitehouse and the european union? we value the transatlantic relationship a lot. we value the historical links to the united states. we value the interests that bind us. but we also know, that this relationship requires today, a bit of updating in its sense of purpose. in any relation, you have to understand why you are together, what is it that binds you to the other side for the long time, we have been running without really asking ourselves what sense does this relationship have? what is the purpose of being in this transatlantic relationship? and if i may, sitting here in spain, i would say that we need to reinvent, it used to be about fighting totalitarianism. i think we have to
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bring it to this new level. to the 21st—century. and this should be the sense of purpose that we put into i think we have to bring it to this new level that is the 21st century and i would say to re—humanize globalisation should be the sense of purpose to be put into this transatlantic relationship and it would take the two of us to invest and to nurture this relationship. if we want it to work. we are almost out of time, what do you as foreign minister of spain, make of the united states leaving the who and putting sanctions on the criminal court? we value multilateralism and we think it is better to engage in multilateral organisations and reform them from within, rather than leave seats empty that others will occupy in the future. so, engage, participate, reform, but have a seat at the table. and what we see here is frankly, the looming cold war between the united states and china. both of them pursuing economic
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protectionism of a different sort or other, both of them interested in nationalist politics right now and the european union, with its economy, does not appear to be in very good shape to adapt to this new world, bipolar world of us china tensions and cold war. what is the european union going to do? the eu to regain a bit of strategic autonomy. the eu needs to be stronger in order to have a say in international matters in order to weigh and in this geopolitical world and this is why weapons of the next weeks the recovery package and this is why what happens over the next weeks the recovery package for the european union is very important. if europe ends this crisis strong, robust, it will have a say in shaping this much more fractured geopolitical world. if we don't, and we do not invest in a stronger europe, including a stronger recovery
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package to exit this crisis, then we willjust simply not be up to shaping tomorrow's world and that is what we have to do. we have to end it now. arancha gonzalez. thank you forjoining me. always a pleasure. hello there. it's been a very thundery week so far across the country, thanks to the warmth and the humidity. and the next few days that looks like we'll see more downpours. on wednesday, we saw some pretty intense thunderstorms across parts of england and this lightning strike was captured by one of the weather watchers in leicestershire there. we also had some slow moving downpours which gave
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to lots of rainfall in a short space of time, giving rise to some surface water flooding. some subtle changes to thursday morning, we got an area of more persistent rain which has been moving out to the near continent and we'll push in to the midlands and south east england to start thursday morning. it will be a muggy start for most and we'll have further low cloud, mist and murk across the north sea coast. as we move through the course of the day, that area of rain with some heavy bursts in it will move its way into northern england and parts of wales. much of scotland and northern ireland should see a fine day with some sunshine, bar the odd heavy shower heading towards the south. but it is set in wales and in central southern england into the afternoon where we could see these further slow—moving thundery downpours happening. these could be really heavy and give rise to some flash flooding and a lot of rainfall in a short space of time. it is going to be another warm and muggy day for most with temperature reaching high of 21—22 but will be cooler along the north sea coast. these thunderstorms across the south of the country
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to the afternoon could cause some issues and stay tuned to your local radio and the latest weather forecast. as we move through thursday night, looks like the thunderstorms will ease across the south and that rain will be westwards across scotland and northern ireland by the end of the night and they will have quite a bit of low cloud mist and murk across the northern and eastern areas, so more murk to come. friday will have quite a messy picture and start off with rain across the west and a lot of cloud around but sunshine will break through into the afternoon and that will spark up some heavy thundery downpours in central northern and eastern areas and it will be another warm muggy day for most. then we will see some big changes into the weekend, we lose the humidity and thunderstorms in the continent and this area of low pressure will bring stronger winds across the board and also a band of rain throughr saturday night into sunday. so, windier, fresher conditions with some rain at times and there will also be
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some sunshine too.
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this is bbc news. i'm mike embley, with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. rayshard brooks, shot in the back as he fled police in atlanta, georgia. the officer who killed him is charged with murder and ten other offences. the possible sentences for a felony murder conviction would be life, life without parole, oi’ be life, life without parole, or the death penalty. as coronavirus cases rise again in china, we visit the wet markets blamed by some as the original source, and consider the latest theories. in exclusive analysis, we disclose the real global death toll from coronavirus. a bombshell allegation from john bolton. he claims president trump asked china's leader to help him win re—election.

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