and here in the studio, observing the two metre rule, jo coburn of the bbc‘s politics live. welcome to you all. hi. thank you. let's start with you, stefanie. with this weekend, we are seeing a certain amount of celebration in government quarters about the reduction of virus threat level but the government at home so there is little to celebrate. give us there is little to celebrate. give usa there is little to celebrate. give us a sense there is little to celebrate. give us a sense of germany and across the eu. it has certainly been observed now since the middle of march with astonishment i think sometimes, how slow the british prime minister and the british government have reacted and how much they have struggled to manage the covid—i9 crisis. also in

a sense that you as an outsider look at the uk, the uk is admired as a place of science, the best scientists, the best research and development. i think only this week the european union, the commission, decided to bid some money for a vaccine that might be coming from oxford university. there is this gap of perception between how well this country can manage science of perception between how well this country can manage science and how badly, actually, with more than may be 60,000 people who died of covid—i9, the prime minister and the government have managed the crisis, especially this is the view from southern countries such as spain and italy who also have a lot of people, immigrants, living in the uk and they were surprised if not shocked how badly the effect of covid—i9 has beenin how badly the effect of covid—i9 has been in the uk. and, stryker, obviously the very tragic excess deaths, as we have seen in uk, but the effects of all of this go into

the effects of all of this go into the future, i suppose, because we are seeing now discussion of the social distancing and if, as in uk, you have a higher number of infections you have very difficult questions to face about how to get the economy and education back on track. what is your assessment of the uk's arrangements right now? well, the economy is going to be an extremely serious trouble. we have been cushioned to some extent by the fa ct been cushioned to some extent by the fact that we have had this impressive furlough programme here in the uk which has protected the uk from some economic damage so far, although we did have a drop of 20% in gdp in march. but we haven't seen anything yet. they are predicting that the uk will fare worse of all developed nations, and that is partly because the uk has a huge

service is economy which takes longer to come back than the manufacturing. what you also have to put this into context because we had nearly a decade of austerity when there was very little investment in infrastructure, in the nhs, in schools, in services, and then we had three years when the government machinery was basically tied up by brexit. now we have covid—19, and once we get to the end of covid—19, assuming that is towards the end of the year, then at some point the uk is going to leave the single market with or without a deal and that will inflict further damage on the economy. so it is a very grim picture, frankly. and, 10, coming to you with your politics hat on, this grim picture that has been painted

by stefa nie grim picture that has been painted by stefanie and stryker there, it is different to that will beating language we heard from the government early on in the pandemic. the questions about competence go on. we had the tracing app u—turn as well. yes. everything has been focused on that test and tracing system that really had to be at the centre of any major unwinding of restrictions. using the term that you have just raised, restrictions. using the term that you havejust raised, world beating anything is always a potential hostage to fortune and borisjohnson used this phrase, we also heard from the health secretary, matt hancock, that we would have this manual system of traces and they have said that has had a good start but there have been questions about the turnover time and people finding out if they have tested positive and their contacts being reached, but it was going to run alongside the smartphone app with automated system of alerts. that was vital, matt hancock said. now he is saying it

will be the cherry on the cake. i think the people from a confidence perspective and from trust in terms of reopening the country as a number of reopening the country as a number of infections come down, and they are coming down on the government is very keen to point to that, albeit slowly, but they are coming down slowly, but they are coming down slowly and steadily, if you want to open up hospitality and travel and tourism, it is now a rather strange tourism, it is now a rather strange to see this juxtaposition of manual tracing being now the cornerstone and the app, which has run into problems, is now being abandoned. they are going to look at an alternative. to be fair to the uk, other countries have also had problems with a centralised app in the same way. only south korea has really worked and it is a different setup there. the question about competence that you raised is important, not just from competence that you raised is important, notjust from the public, not just from important, notjust from the public, notjust from opposition important, notjust from the public, not just from opposition and important, notjust from the public, notjust from opposition and critics to the government, but within the conservative party itself. questions

we re conservative party itself. questions were raised by some conservative mps, privately and publicly, as to why it took a footballer like marcus rashford to be the one to actually launch a rashford to be the one to actually launcha campaign rashford to be the one to actually launch a campaign about extending free school meal vouchers for the most needy in our schools here and not the government? have they not got the thing on the pulse is what some mps have been saying. there was a u—turn, that was welcomed by many, not all. some tory mps felt the scheme was not robust enough. then we had a u—turn on nhs surcharge for people who work in the nhs but are from outside the european economic area. again, rumblings within the conservative party. one or two u—turns might be ok from a public perception within the governing party, but already there is a sense of them asking number ten, are you listening to us? do you know what the public mood actually is? are you beginning to lose sight of what is

going on that is a dangerous moment potentially for boris johnson, despite the fact he has a massive majority. going back to you, stefanie, what do europeans make of boris johnson's record ? stefanie, what do europeans make of borisjohnson's record? are they looking on this with a degree of... that this character is a powerful bestride of the stage is beset by these problems? i wouldn't want to use the term because that is cynical. if you look at more than 60,000 people who have died of the coronavirus, this is people who had families, husbands, wives, sons, daughters were not able to say goodbye because of the highly infectious nature of the virus. i actually interviewed a woman my age the other day here in ealing, london, whose father was a bus driver and he didn't have the protection he needed and so he died in the hospital where his bus stop

was. she described how she didn't have a chance to say goodbye to her dad stopped i think anybody who talks about that is very cynical. everybody is aware that boris johnson has a massive majority, the next election is in 2024 so he seems to be very safe in his office but, of course, all these u—turns and the very bleak record of being a country in europe that has the highest death toll, however you compare it now with other countries and however the statistics work, is in any case a very, very bad start into something that actually, with brexit, should have been a new, glorious, global, splendid new era for the united kingdom. let's talk about that. stryker on economics, to be fair to the british government, you mention the british government, you mention the furlough and other packages a moment ago, they have won praise for moving fast on economic issues, how

do you see all of that going forward ? do you see all of that going forward? just pick up your point where you left it a few moments ago about the difficulties in taking the economy off life support, as it were, and getting it functioning again at the time that brexit is immediately coming down the track.|j mean, when you shut down the economy with a lockdown, it is brutal but it is also fairly simple. you know exactly what is going to happen, the whole place is going to shut down. then the question becomes how do you reopen us then the question becomes how do you reopen us i think what is concerning some of the people in this country and some of the mps injohnson's own party asjo and some of the mps injohnson's own party as jo was saying, and some of the mps injohnson's own party asjo was saying, there is dithering going on with the reopening even. people are frankly quite confused. nobody is sure what is going to happen, when. there are all kinds of constituencies that are banging on number ten's door saying

do this now and yet nothing is happening. i think this is a problem for the government. it is notjust a political problem, but it is a problem for the economy, it is a problem for the economy, it is a problem for the economy, it is a problem for businesses who are trying to plan, very difficult for them to plan, and then they look a little bit further and they see the departure from the single market and, you know, some of them arejust dreading the future. and, jo, that dreading the future. and, jo, that dreading of the future, that is not so for those who won an election six months ago on and get brexit done and all those who supported that slogan. can boris johnson and all those who supported that slogan. can borisjohnson win back the confidence of the british public and, indeed, his own party at this point? to respond to your question and to what stryker was saying, i think you brought it can, actually. yes, there are people who will

despair opposition parties, although interestingly not labour. explicitly stating that borisjohnson should ask for an extension. it is a weak issue for the labour party. you have to remember that that huge majority came from seats that have historically been held by the labour party in parts of the country that wa nted party in parts of the country that wanted brexit done, to quote the mantra from the government. the many people, brexit has been done, we left on the 31st of january in so many people's mines. this is the trade negotiation and the trade talks and, actually, despite a lot of the rhetoric around it, there are some small signs of progress and will on both sides, namely emanuel macron was in london and i think there may be a renewed push between borisjohnson there may be a renewed push between boris johnson and macron there may be a renewed push between borisjohnson and macron to try and get something around the trade deal because there was a deadline about the extension. the extension is not going to happen. there is a more important point for those people who

wa nted important point for those people who wanted brexit and wanted to leave the eu and delivered that big majority, and that is about the levelling up agenda, this phrase that the government uses. they see, stefa nie that the government uses. they see, stefanie mentioned, this should have been the splendid area of the global britain. they are hanging on and waiting for borisjohnson to get on with the plans that he had to invest and look at the areas of the north—east and wales and the midlands where he won the seats and actually deliver. that is what they are waiting for. yes, brexit done in january, yes, hopefully we will get a trade deal, but actually what we wa nt a trade deal, but actually what we want is we want to have this renewed focus on delivering this levelling up. i want to put that back to stryker. do you think that is doable, looking at it from an economically strategic point of view? given the enormous generational cost of that that will have to be faced, that is widening

in inequalities rather than narrowing them? are you referring to the trade deal? no, there levelling up the trade deal? no, there levelling up agenda in deprived areas that have suffered from the ten year austerity that you have spoken about moments ago. where as the money going to come from? at best, i think it is postponed. as stefanie said and asjo it is postponed. as stefanie said and as jo has it is postponed. as stefanie said and asjo has been saying, boris has time. that is probably the only thing he has going for him right now. all that he wanted to do with the northern powerhouse and with other aspects of the economy, a lot of that is going to have to be put off because so much has been spent in recent months. if you just take the furlough programme, it is hugely

expensive, and then when it ends, of course, then we are going to have unemployment soaring, it is probably going to get too close to 10% by the end of the year, and there is no way of getting around that. it is a trap. just before we come back to the free trade agenda, stefanie, i wa nt to the free trade agenda, stefanie, i want to get a european perspective on all of this because, asjo mentioned, we had the meeting between boris and macron and boris spoke to the european commission president, our europeans currently thinking about brexit at all as they try to emerge from the pandemic? and if so, what are they thinking? we did not only have the french british meeting, we also had the european council via video link this week on thursday and friday, and i thought it was striking. there was a press conference in berlin on friday and angler michael was asked about

brexit and she was —— angela merkel was surprised to be asked about brexit. they are talking about stimulus packages, loans and grants and the volume of 750 billion euros so this is the biggest financial project that the european union ever had to undertake so this is really now on the cards, this is what the agenda is, there is a lot of rows in the back room, how much will be paid, in what forms. so angela merkel, she did talk about it but she didn't give any details. saying that, she will be once more a key figure in this because germany is taking over the eu presidency on the ist ofjuly, so that means that the german government will be leading the negotiations and everybody is expecting this will go down to the wire, not in july expecting this will go down to the wire, not injuly as the british prime ministerfor a reason i cannot understand is claiming. boris

johnson is saying there will be a deal injuly, johnson is saying there will be a deal in july, this johnson is saying there will be a deal injuly, this is certainly not happening. but by october, this needs to be settled also because there is a ratification process afterwards and that will take several months. everybody is expecting that, once more, boris johnson, angela merkel and macron will sit down and try to find a compromise but it is going to be difficult because the positions i cannot see for the time being for them to agree because of very different expectations, how much serenity britain will have in the trade deal. jo mentioned a moment ago this idea of global britain and we dealt with the eu dimension but can you deal with the global dimension of global britain for a moment? the free trade agreements, it isa moment? the free trade agreements, it is a very difficult moment, surely, to be pushing them as a whole world starts to think about shrinking its supply chains and the

difficulties in terms of us china trade wars, decoupling and all the rest of it grow, and the uk's relationship with china becomes more difficult. i think the uk is puzzling the rest of the world in many ways these days, and i am not sure that the rest of the world understands what sort of role britain wants to play. the world knows that britain wants trade agreements, there are going to be very difficult. there will be no free trade agreement with the united states, that is not going to happen. there might be so—called mini deal which is basically an agreement to agree on certain things, but that is something that the president of the united states and the prime minister of the uk could sign in the form of a document but a free—trade agreement has to go through congress and isjust agreement has to go through congress and is just not going to agreement has to go through congress and isjust not going to happen. there is simply no way. so, as we

get towards the end of the year, you have on the one hand the agreement or not with the eu and on the other hand may there will be some minor agreements signed with other countries but i think it is going to look really paltry and therefore quite worrisome for the economic future of the uk. and, jo, just before we leave the uk focus of the programme. the first half of the year has been enormously daunting and to listen to stefanie and stryker, the second half of the year is going to be potentially more daunting stop does the government have the bandwidth, energy, drive to confront all of these challenges?m would say yes we do, governments can do more than one thing at a time, but we are talking about a global pandemic and a pandemic here in the uk in which, if you look at the polls is just one example, with all the caveats that come with them, the gap has narrowed quite significantly

between the conservative party and the labour party. i agree with both stefa nie the labour party. i agree with both stefanie and stryker. in terms of a focus on an eu trade deal with the uk is the focus of the government at the moment and whether that will be able to be done, we will have to wait and see. in terms of the us, stryker is right. a comprehensive trade deal with the trump administration as they are heading into an election, re—election territory, and there are still these major sticking points, and they will continue, over food standards for one, the government says it is committed to upholding existing uk food standards. the usa is well, we are not going to do anything to delude that, but that is an issue from a pr perspective, if you like. —— we are not going to do anything to dilute that. and then drug prices. in a moment when health in general is at the centre of politics, they will be dangerous areas. politics, they will be dangerous areas. i think stryker is right, anything that will come out of the

us and uk, it will be sectoral, it will be small agreements, it would not be a big comprehensive trade deal. the caveat in terms of whether the government has the bandwidth for all of these things, it will have to do to some extent. it will be about the economy. what the government, i think is looking at is the trajectory going forward of the health crisis in terms of the number of deaths. thankfully, they are coming down. the attention will focus more squarely on the economy here, on how they do manage to unwind restrictions. rishi sunak‘s furlough scheme as it tapers off we'll all be about unemployment figures and what we will learn in those months as to what has happened to the uk economy and how the government response to that. right. now we are going to head across the pond and take that on directly. donald trump takes to the campaign trail again this weekend after a long absence due to the pandemic. and he's on the attack, notjust against his democratic rivaljoe biden but against former friends and allies. already this month he's

called his former defence secretary the world's most overrated general, and now he's calling his former national security adviser a liar and a washed up guy because of an unflattering account of life inside the trump presidency due to be published next week. stryker, is there anything you think in this book that will take us anywhere new? we have seen inside a box before and we get an insight into the president's mind from his twitter feed, what does into the president's mind from his twitterfeed, what does it into the president's mind from his twitter feed, what does it tell us? it really doesn't tell us anything new. i think the important thing about this book is thatjohn bolton isa about this book is thatjohn bolton is a serious, albeit controversial, the figure of the right in the united states, so what he says taken seriously. however, it is filling in a lot of the blanks, filling in the picture of what we knew about trump

already, him thinking that finland was part of the soviet union, the list goes on and on. i think, however, it is really a straw in the wind and that wind is huge at this point. there was a lot of straw, tumbleweed size, things flying through washington. this isjust tumbleweed size, things flying through washington. this is just one aspect of it. there is one thing, though, that is actually quite important about the book, and that has to do with china. trump has been trying in recent weeks to tie biden, the democratic candidate, joe biden, he has been trying to tie him to china, make that a campaign issue. bolton has completely undermined that by what he has said about trump trying to get the president of china

trying to get the president of china trying to get the president of china trying to win the presidency we are very short of time. stefanie, i want to throw you the idea that the polls now put biden ahead but trump does have a formidable online machine. campaigning remains online for some months apart from president trump himself stepping up to campaign rally in tulsa. that means there is a lot of catching up forjoe biden to do. what is your assessment of his chances? well, this is going to be now a decisive month. at the end of the day, it is going to be decided, first of all, how deeply the coronavirus crisis will hurt the us economy, how many people will lose theirjobs, or if it picks up, and how successfully the candidates basically throw dirt at each other. the trump campaign is fascinating. if you look at the trump app that has been launched back in april

which already has half a million people that have downloaded it, where you can get facts from the sources and it is not for q -- it is not fake news. there is a big campaign been built up with a lot of money. he is very good at life campaigning and he is returning right now. joe biden is not a very good campaign on stage, he is not very dynamic. i think there is still a lot of dangers and risks coming further down the line on the campaign trail forjoe biden. stryker, give me two sentences on that. we don't have time for much. how do you think the two candidates are faring right now? right now, it is clear that biden is ahead in the polls but he is ahead in the polls in part because he has been hiding out in his cellar and he hasn't really had to do any campaigning. trump has been beating himself up.

and there we have to leave it. it is my fault for not managing the time. stefanie, stryker, thank you. and jo, stefanie, stryker, thank you. and jo, thank you in the studio. that's it for dateline london for this week. we're back next week at the same time. goodbye. hello there. it's been a humid week, dominated by sharp, thundery downpours, hasn't it? but the weekend has started off quite promising with this little ridge of high pressure quitening things down. there is a weak weather front into the south—westjust enhancing some showers and more rain to come overnight, but for most of us, it is a relatively quiet saturday. any showers drifting through the south—west and south wales may well push up into the midlands but they will be fairly isolated in comparison to late, and we might keep a little bit of low cloud, mist and fog lingering across the northern isles. but for most, it is a case of dry with lighter winds are sunny spells

and top temperatures peaking at 22 celsius. through this evening and overnight, there is some rain arriving from a weather front pushing in from the atlantic. the winds will strengthen, the rain will move its way across northern ireland into western scotland and across england and wales. around about an inch of rain in one or two places. widely, we will see those temperatures holding up, with the cloud and the rain around, double digits first thing on sunday morning. but early birds will see a spell of wet weather moving its way through scotland and eastern england, but it will clear quite quickly through the morning. around about coffee time, we should start to see that rain easing away, drying up across england and wales despite a brisk south—westerly wind, just a few isolated showers here. more widespread showers are likely across northern ireland and western scotland in particular, with gusts of winds in excess of 30mph, so noticeable wind around on sunday, top temperatures still, though, at around 21, 22 celsius, perhaps not quite as warm in scotland.

now, we keep this north—south divide into monday, with still a weather front enhancing some rain through northern ireland, through scotland and maybe north—west england for a time. there will be a little more cloud, as well, generally through wales and south—west england, the best of any sunshine further east. top temperatures of 23 celsius. now, the trend is for conditions to warm up, in fact, some will see some hot weather as high pressure builds from the near continent, keeping that weather front up into the far north—west, but it is also going to drag with it some warmth as well, so we see the darker, russet tones stretching right across the country, which means we are going to see some rain starting across the far north and west monday into tuesday. temperatures are likely to peak in the low 30s. that will be the hottest weather we've got so far this year.

this is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. distancing rule will "conclude within days", which could make it easier for pubs and restaurants to open next month. passengers arriving at uk airports may soon be able to pay for a coronavirus test and avoid fourteen days in quarantine. the white house tries to fire the prosecutor investigating donald trump's associates — but he's refusing to step down. brazil becomes only the second country in the world to report more than a million cases of coronavirus. climate campaigner greta thunberg says the coronavirus crisis and anti—racism protests show how governments can