good morning. this is bbc news with the latest headlines: full—time school for all children in september — the government's to unveil details later for more than 8 million pupils in england. in leicester, a local lockdown to deal with a surge in coronavirus cases will see schools close today to all but children of key workers. china demands that britain "immediately stop interfering" in the affairs of hong kong, after the uk denounced beijing's

new security law in the territory which led to mass protests. could we see an extension of the countries we can travel to? dozens more could be exempt from the government's quarantine rules to allow people to go on a foreign holiday. # over the castle on the hill... # a star—studded list, featuring the likes of ed sheeran, sir paul mccartney and annie lennox call on the government to do more to protect the uk's live music venues. hello, good morning to you and welcome to bbc news. i'm annita mcveigh and you can get in touch

with me about any of our stories today on twitter. schools in england will be told to stagger break times, group children into "bubbles" and focus on core subjects when they return to the classroom in september. the government is expected to confirm safety plans based on reducing contact, rather than social distancing. for gcses and a—levels, most pupils will be expected to continue with all of their intended subjects. attendance will be compulsory, with the threat of penalty fines for parents. these plans will be formally set out by the education secretary later today, as our correspondent dan johnson reports. some children may be back in class, but for most, this is their 15th week of disrupted education, trying to learn at home or online. the impossible puzzle has been how to get them all safely back into school with social distancing in place. spreading classes out needed extra space, and teachers we simply don't

have, but the government committed itself to finding an answer. we are going to have to make changes as to how it currently operates. we have seen a relaxation of social distancing rules, and we're going to see the return of full class sizes. so what can we expect come september? the government is set to announce that social distancing will be abandoned in primary schools and reduced to one metre where possible in secondaries. whole year groups will be regarded as bubbles, with staggered start times to keep them apart. some subjects may be suspended at first, to focus on catching up in core classes like english and maths. it is possible that could lead to some gcse pupils dropping optional subjects altogether. and fines will return for parents who don't make sure their children are back in school. we will get confirmation of the detail later this morning,

but there are still questions to address. what about school buses? there is a suggestion face coverings may be required, but they're not being recommended in school itself. how will shared spaces be cleaned between classes? and, with bubbles potentially including hundreds of children, how will schools cope with the further disruption caused by a single case? and all this to be considered on a day when most children in leicester stay at home once more, as schools lock down again because of the outbreak there. and we can speak to dan johnson in crawley now. hi, dan. the government's draft plan was leaked earlier this week. if what is announced officially today contains all those details that were leaked, does the school there think they can make these work? let's ask they can make these work? let's ask the people in charge, i've been such a naughty boy this morning i've got to see two headmasters, mike who is in charge here and tim who runs the primary school that feeds kids in from down the road. what do you

think of the proposals we have heard so think of the proposals we have heard so far? will this solve the conundrum of getting children into the classroom by september? the devil will be in the detail but i don't think so. as long as there is social distancing of the suggestion it will be reduced to one metre for secondary schools that doesn't help us secondary schools that doesn't help us in any way, shape or form. why not? surely you can get more kids in the classroom. if we can only get 15 m, the classroom. if we can only get 15 in, the classrooms are small, we have some of the smallest classrooms in europe with the highest densities. unless they can sit next to each other, if it has to be a one metre distance i'm limited to getting 15 into a room anyway and i haven't got the number of classes or teachers to be able to split them in half and teach them all at the same time. still challenges and problems that need answers? absolutely, in all likelihood we will probably have to continue with the rotor system which means the idea of schools being open with full attendance is not possible. every child back in the classroom will not be possible? not at all. the school was built for 1000 students. we have six toilet

blocks for the main part of the school. — — rota. blocks for the main part of the school. ——rota. let alone the fact that stairways, you can't have students passing each other on the sta i rways, students passing each other on the stairways, all the practical problems mean that as long as there is social distancing we cannot reopen fully. 0k, is social distancing we cannot reopen fully. ok, let's come to tim and see what the primary school perspective is. social distancing effectively abolished, we are hearing, for primary school kids. does that help you? i completely get that social distancing has to be removed for children to come back to school. i think the bigger issue moving forward, and i think it will bea moving forward, and i think it will be a thread of conversation amongst school leaders, governors and unions in the days and weeks to come will be this idea that teachers have to be this idea that teachers have to be two metres apart from the children. if i just be two metres apart from the children. if ijust try and unpack that to give it a bit more substance, if we take my reception children who willjoin in september, naturally they will be tearful, they will need comfort, this two metre distance is not going to actually

facilitate that process. children will be anxious, nervous, they will need comfort, they will need a helping hand. do you think social distancing should be abolished for the teachers as well? absolutely. if i look at the other side of the primary phase, if i take a key stage 2 classroom, i don't know where this visualisation of a teacher at the front of the classroom to meet us from everybody, it almost encompasses this victorian classroom. teachers don't do that, they interact with the children, they interact with the children, they are with them, they are guiding them through their work, they are spotting mistakes, they are facilitating progress. teaching assistants in the classrooms are there to support and direct children. they need to be close to them. ithink children. they need to be close to them. i think the real issue is also those children with special educational needs and disabilities. they need comfort, they need somebody with them. how is that two—metre rule going to facilitate these groups of children? and what happens if you do get a case in school? we are hearing about bigger

bubbles for whole year groups. does that mean one outbreak, one case and you have to send a whole year group home? the school risk assessments are going to need to be reviewed to reflect what will need to take place in these individual circumstances. i would recommend that if any potential child had symptoms of corona in a classroom it would affect the whole population. what about fines being reintroduced for pa rents about fines being reintroduced for parents come september? do you need that? where is the compassion here andl that? where is the compassion here and i reflect the local area in crawley we are very close and we now have a care home has been hit so hard. parents who are financially struggling to maintain normal living standards and they are then going to be told, and they might have natural anxieties. we have got to empathise with that. we are going to say we

are also going to find new, its £120, but don't worry if you pay 60 quid after the first week it's fine. you won't do that? no. thank you for yourtime, you won't do that? no. thank you for your time, gentlemen. you won't do that? no. thank you for yourtime, gentlemen. lots of concerns about the detail of this still and how it will work on the practicality of getting every child back into school, at least in england come september. that is the government's aim and ambition and we expect more detailfrom government's aim and ambition and we expect more detail from the education secretary later this afternoon. we knew the coronavirus will define a generation. the full impact is only reallyjust starting to become clear. whether schools can be anything like normal come september is still a big question. absolutely, dan. thank you very much. dan johnson absolutely, dan. thank you very much. danjohnson in crawley. with me now is our assistant political editor norman smith. good morning, norman. when we get the official announcement from gavin williamson, are you hearing about any new details? some of those details of the draft plan were lea ked details of the draft plan were leaked earlier this week. are you hearing about anything else that will be contained in it?|j hearing about anything else that will be contained in it? i think we

have the broad thrust of the proposals. but a lot of it seems to me is going to come down to psychology rather than detailed policy in terms of will parents have sufficient confidence to send their children back. we know injune they absolutely did not and a lot of it is going to be depend on stuff out with gavin williamson's control in terms of the overall level of infections in the community in september —— dependent on stuff out with. test and tracing, how quickly testing can be done, how swiftly mobile testing units can be deployed to schools if there is an outbreak. all of those bigger covid questions, it seems to me, are going to be as important as all the intricate details of how schools are going to operate and parents are going to have sufficient confidence to send their children back. one of the conundrums which i think will be critical is if, as seems likely, the

level of social distancing in schools is now to be radically reduced with this idea of mega— bubbles of whole year groups, how does that tally with the situation we have seen in leicester where we know, according to the health secretary matt hancock, there was a large number of infections amongst children. not that children were significantly made ill by the virus, but they were transmitting it. does that, therefore, because some pa rents to that, therefore, because some parents to have concern about sending their children back? in a way, crucial, of course is going to have the implications for individual heads and how they manage their scores but it seems to me as important will be the much bigger question of what sort of grip has the government managed to get on the virus and on testing and tracing and all the other elements of parents are to have the confidence to send their children back. norman, lets

just talk about leicester now and the local lockdown there. the government talking a bit more today about the detail and data it has given to leicester. how likely do you think it is that other areas may have to face this kind of local lockdown as well? i think many epidemiologists think that it is probably very likely, albeit, hopefully, other towns and cities will be in a much better place because clearly in leicester they were, they feel, left high and dry bya were, they feel, left high and dry by a lack of data about where actually the infection was in terms of the detail and which streets and which particular parts of the community were infected. we know they subsequently got all the information. they clearly believe they got the information very late in the day and there is a sort of blame game going on between the government and leicester over when and whether they should have got a grip on the data earlier. other

areas, it seems, are now getting the information although again it is only trickling through fairly late. we heard from the chief executive of ba rnsley we heard from the chief executive of barnsley this morning, which is one of those towns which has a much higher rate of infections. they only got the detailed information, they say, yesterday. so it is coming through but it is coming through slowly. however, the fact it is coming through, you would hope, would mean that other towns and cities would be much more able to have very quick, very localised lockdowns before the virus gets out of hand necessitating a leicester style lockdown. 0k, norman, thank you very much. norman smith there in westminster for us. an 18—year—old man has been charged with murdering sisters two sisters in a park in london. danyal hussein will appear at westminster magistrates' court later today. the bodies of nicole smallman and bibaa henry were found in fryent gardens in wembley

after a birthday party last month. china has demanded that britain immediately stop interfering in the affairs of hong kong after the uk denounced beijing's's new security law in the territory. after being summoned to the foreign office last night, the chinese ambassador described britain's remarks as "irresponsible and unwarra nted". the uk says the legislation breaches the sino—british joint declaration guaranteeing hong kong's autonomy. let mejust let me just tell you that in the last few minutes we have been watching a briefing that has been going on from china in hong kong. we don't have those pictures now. that seems to have finished. butjust to explain, we were able to see those pictures because of an agency feed. but ordinary people and indeed our correspondence who we are going to talk to next, have not been able to actually watch that briefing. so let's go to martin yip in hong kong. hello, martin. as one would expect, a pretty robust response from china

to the uk's criticism and indeed to criticism from other countries as well. tell us more. well, yes, indeed, although i can't watch the actual briefing in beijing like you said, but this foreign ministry briefing has quite a few strong comments, as already reported by hong kong media and international agencies. it has been saying to begin with that full consequences for the uk to offer resident permits to the british national overseas in hong kong will be borne by the uk and also reiterated according to these wire reports china's resolve will be strengthened to create prosperity. it went on to australia which prime minister morrison has been reviewing potentially similar

measures to be offered to hong kong residents. they urged australia to stop interfering in china's internal affairs regarding hong kong. these are all strong words but somehow it is not something very uncommon from chinese foreign ministry spokesperson. even on the british national overseas issue. so yesterday we had borisjohnson and dominic rob confirming that they are now moving to give an extended leave to stay for bn no passport holders from six months to five years. but even back in earlyjune when the idea of giving extra concessions to british national overseas passport holders was first floated by the borisjohnson holders was first floated by the boris johnson cabinet there holders was first floated by the borisjohnson cabinet there has been warnings from beijing as well. —— dominic raab. in some probation politicians have been warning of

potential retaliation by beijing to the uk, orto potential retaliation by beijing to the uk, or to bno passport holders, including potentially revoking the hong kong permanent residency. but of course we can't prove any of these until beige take any actual action. just briefly, martin, we have seen some reports that an individual who was involved in protesting against this new law was pulled off a flight, was actually on board a plane that was due to arrive in london but was pulled off the flight in london but was pulled off the flight by authorities. are you able to confirm that? yes, we do have confirmation from the hong kong police that a man so named one in his early 20s was arrested at around midnight this morning —— wong. it didn't say if he was arrested on the plane but there were multiple reports from local media quoted police sources have been saying that he was already on that cathay

pacific flight bound for london heathrow and the plane was already taxiing to take off but then got summoned back to the terminal by police and air traffic control and the arrests were made. the police confirmation did say that they didn't actually connect how he has been attacking that police officer at the event yesterday in causeway bay, and major shopping area in hong kong. they said the police officer was injured by sharp objects and hit by umbrellas and other objects and this person was arrested at the airport and is now being investigated for assault and police has repeated a warning that assault in hong kong's law could carry life imprisonment. martin yip, thank you for that. america's top infectious disease expert has warned that the us risks

an even greater coronavirus outbreak unless it can bring the latest surge in cases under control. doctor anthony fauci said the current spike — of more than 52,000 new cases in the past 2a hours — was caused by people in some states failing to follow basic rules as the economy re—opened. when you look at what happened in some of the states, all you have to do is take a look at the news at night and you see people congregating at bars without masks, congregating at bars without masks, congregating in different types of groups that are well beyond the recommended number of people. what happens when you do that and you don't wear a mask? you get the kind of outbreaks we are seeing. antony fowler tree there. government sources indicated that dozens of countries will be exempt from its travel quarantine from monday. currently most people arriving into the uk from anywhere apart from the republic of ireland have to

self—isolate for two weeks. last weekend the government said it would relax its advice on travel abroad and would rate countries as either green, amber or red depending on the prevalence of the virus. let's return to our top story this morning. the department for education are expected to announce guidelines for how pupils will be able to return to school in september. a draft of the plans was leaked earlier in the week, and suggests that groups of up to 240 pupils could be kept apart within a school, with a separate time for starting and finishing. the plans, which are understood to be draft documents shared as part of a consultation, say there will also be a recognition of the need for pupils to catch up after months out of regular lessons, with an emphasis on core subjects such as english and maths. with me is jane girt, who is the headteacher of

carlton bolling school in bradford. i'm alsojoined by i'm also joined by the general secretary of the national education union. and also leah, a parent of four, who has so far refused to send her children back to school. the department of culture, media and sport will make some further comments on this but let's talk to oui’ comments on this but let's talk to our guests first of all. good morning to all of you and thank you for joining morning to all of you and thank you forjoining us. i will begin with you, jane. you are at the coal face of this as a head teacher. going and what you have heard so far about what you have heard so far about what the official announcement is going to be, do you think you can make this work at school in terms of staggering start times, break times and meal times, etc? staggering start times, break times and mealtimes, etc? ithink it's been very difficult. what we have done is we have planned for september assuming all the children will be back without social distancing because it's the only way we could start with a plan. once we had done that we can tweak it when we get the details that come out today. what is frustrating for us is

we only have a fortnight left of school this term and the changes we have to make are going to be quite noticeable, i would think, to what we normally do in september. we are fortu nate we we normally do in september. we are fortunate we are a school that doesn't have buses, we are a community school so our children will live within the locality. in terms of 1500 children, 120 staff, 84 teaching spaces, so we have planned that for a normal curriculum. the thought of trying to change that so the children can stay in their bubbles, our bubbles are all well over 250, up to 330 and a new group, we will be able to do it but the more time we have got to be able to do it is better. the experience the children will have will be very different to what they normally would have in september. we have three lunch times to get through 1500 children. it looks as if with the new system we will have to have five lunchtimes unless we say we will only give school lunches to children on free school meals and our disadvantaged and vulnerable children. all of these decisions are up

children. all of these decisions are up in the air at the moment and the sooner we get some clear advice from the government the easier it will be for head teachers like myself to start to put in place all the new systems and processes that will have to be there. the logistics of five school lunches, that alone, i imagine, isa school lunches, that alone, i imagine, is a bit of a logistical nap to mare. i will come back to you ina nap to mare. i will come back to you in a second, jane. kevin courtney, next, from the national education union. how much confidence building does there have to be at this stage and how much more detail do you need and how much more detail do you need and want to quickly from the government, backed up by things like test and trace and so on, of course, to be able to confidently back children going back to school in september in england?” children going back to school in september in england? i think you have to start with huge sympathy for jane and every other head teacher in this country. head teachers tell me that to plan a timetable in a big secondary school, can take seven solid weeks, even with the fantastic computer programmes you have to aid that at the moment. so the idea that

you can with two weeks to go work out a planning that will do all of the staggered starts, staggered breaks, stag at lunchtime, there is a real practical difficulties so that. i need to, what i think you asked is what back—up we need. we need these plans to be out and in public. then we really need scientists. public health england and sage, to say that they confirm that these are safe. we all want children to be back in september and with a children to be back in september and witha fairwind, children to be back in september and with a fair wind, may be across the eight weeks between now and september the virus level drops even more and so people feel safer. there is obvious to the risk that in leicester, bradford where jane is from, the level is higher than average but that might not be the case. but we really need scientists to confirm, we need a sage, they looked at the question of school is reopening in papers released in june. they were worried about transmission networks within

schools. the idea that we have these big bubbles with no social distancing so classes of 30, 30 plus sometimes, and then mixing those classes. the question of if the virus is circulating, how much i can circulate in that sort of big bubble is an issue that we really need sage to say they have looked at this, not the words on the paper of a government plan, but how the actual reality will be that they think that will be safe in terms of transmission networks. the second thing is we need safety for some individuals to be confirmed. we know that children by and large in the huge majority do not suffer this disease badly. but adults can, parents and staff who are working, if you are in a class of 30 children, effectively with no social distancing and with no ppe, quite often classrooms have poor ventilation. for the scientists to say, yes, it is absolutely safe to be, or relatively safe to be in that, something the government needs

to give us. sorry to go on. safety is absolutely vital for children and staff at the school and anyone else who they might be coming into contact with, kevin. let me bring in leah and her son jacob. contact with, kevin. let me bring in leah and hersonjacob. hi, jacob. are you excited to be on tv this morning? yeah. jacob, you are 11, for anyone who wants to know and due to start secondary school in september, jacob? yeah. leah, you have four children, and could have sent two of them back to school already but you decided not to. why? just for safety reasons, really. obvious like we said, jacob could have gone back to school and my other son in year one. but ijust didn't feel that... the school has done such a fantasticjob providing... they have done a

fantastic job providing... they have done a fantasticjob providing providing... they have done a fantastic job providing them providing... they have done a fantasticjob providing them with work. they have had ample amounts of things to do and ijust felt work. they have had ample amounts of things to do and i just felt that with the bubbles that they couldn't make the children safe, or equally the adults. and i do feel that with going back in september ijust don't feel that safety is taken on board. obviously lots of head teachers have said today they simply wouldn't be fining parents if they decided not to send their children back. but if push came to shove would you pay a fine rather than send your children back if we didn't feel confident that it was safe for them to do that? 100%. my husband is that it was safe for them to do that? 10096. my husband is black and i would never forgive myself if something happened, you know, if the children brought something back to the home. it is like a military operation when we leave the house. i only go to the supermarkets but i

wear gloves, masks, idisinfect everything that comes back into the house. just because literally i would never forgive myself if something happened to my family. would never forgive myself if something happened to my familym course. jacob, i guess you are really excited and hoping that you can really excited and hoping that you ca n start really excited and hoping that you can start secondary school in september? yeah, because you know, it's a new school. i've been a primary school for a long time so going to a new school would be fun, having new teachers and meeting new friends. we will keep everything crossed for you that you are able to do that. let me go back to jane, head teacher in bradford. do you envisage a situation where you would ever find envisage a situation where you would everfind a parent envisage a situation where you would ever find a parent if they decided not to send their children back to school? oh! we have lostjane. i don't know why. jane, you are back, thankfully. i hope you heard my

question. i'm not sure you did so i will repeat it. jane, i'm just wondering if you can hear us... i don't think we can talk to jane. what a shame, we will try and get back to her if we can. unions and others have been criticised for trying to block children getting back to school, which i'm sure makes you very angry, how do you feel about those criticisms. i also wa nted about those criticisms. i also wanted to talk to you about the issue of transport. it's all very well talking about bubbles in school but if children from different year groups are mixing on transport to get to school, is that a bit of a thorn in the side of this plan? on your first point, we are annoyed that we are being accused of blocking education. we always wanted children back as soon as it is safe to do so and have only ever been asking that the science be produced and that it be clear. the reason that our schools are open a bit

later than other european countries isn't our fault. you can see that our government went into lockdown too late, a week or a fortnight too late, that meant that the peak was much higher and it takes a long time to come off the peak, and it is also true that class sizes in our country are the highest in primary schools in europe. that makes it harder to organise social distancing in schools. on your question of transport, this is a real issue that sage will want to look at because the government is saying that children should be in, well, we have to wait and see, we have seen drafts but we have to wait and see exactly what the education secretary says today. but in the drafts they are talking about whole year group bubbles and venturing to keep those year groups separate with separate lunchtimes and separate break times which will be practically difficult. but then in schools that do rely on buses, not like jane's school which isa buses, not like jane's school which is a local school where children can walk to school, but were there is home to school transport the advice

is saying the children will mix on that home to school transport so the bubbles will not be secure from one another. we want kids to be back. we wa nt another. we want kids to be back. we want them to be back in september and we wanted to be safe and we want the virus level to drop and would wa nt the virus level to drop and would want test track and trace to be working but to be fully confident we need the scientists to absolutely confirm they have modelled the practical reality where children are mixing on the buses, when the bubbles are so big, and they need to be able to say this will not lead to transmission networks that will lead to the r going above one and all the problems that would cause. we must leave it there, kevin, but thank you for your thoughts, kevin courtney, joint secretary of the national education union, and we thank leah and jacob in high wycombe. good luck in september. and also thanks to head teacherjane girt in bradford

who unfortunately we couldn't get back to, but at least we did get to talk a little bit to jane. the digital culture and sport committee says other clubs could follow wigan into administration and help comes from the top of the game. administrators acting for them say the club is finished if funding can't be found to get it through to the end of the season after its hong kong—based owners pulled out. we can go across to wigan and mike is there for us. hope, iguess, is all the fa ns for us. hope, iguess, is all the fans have got at the moment. is there any chance the club can be saved beyond the end of the season? welcome yes, that is the aim, that is what the administrators are trying to do. and one administrator told breakfast he's been in charge of many clubs before and he trying to save them so he's hoping that can

continue. he revealed to us he is speaking via e—mail at the moment to ten potential investors, although at the moment they are just asking for details of the club finances and there is a long way to go before they are signing any checks, which is when it really matters and when it really counts. he did say the administrators could ensure the team could at least get to the matches to play their remaining six games of this season. what a crucial six games they are as well. on the pitch, wigan were going really well, the form team in 2020 in the championship, well clear of relegation. but because they get the points deduction at the end of the season, this drags them back into it so they have a bit of a struggle to stay up on their hands because of the points deduction and fine, which many might see as a bit harsh because in the clubs, in the past when clubs have gone into administration it might be because they've been badly run because of financial problems that this time it's because of things out of their control, due to circumstances beyond their real control, due to the

coronavirus pandemic, which has meant that clubs haven't had added fa ns meant that clubs haven't had added fans coming into the doors to finance them week to week. so it has not really been their fault. so they had hoped the rules might not apply in the usual way in this instance. but at the moment, the fine stands and also so does the 12 points deduction. this could be, of course, as you mentioned, the tip of the iceberg, with the warning other clu bs iceberg, with the warning other clubs could follow wigan into administration. talks have been going on between the efl, the english bully, and the premier league about how to address the financial situation. but we can't expect anything to come from them until the season has been completed and the premier league sees how much money it has to potentially help the efl. will it be too late to save the likes of wigan? that is a worry for someone other hope for wigan fans, the man behind me, he took over wigan and took them from the bottom of the football league to the

premier league in 2005 and dave wheeler managed to get the club to lift the fa cup in 2013, he has indicated he would be willing to help in some form and the administrators will be chatting to dave whelan today. that is another ray of hope for the fans there. ok, mike, let's wait and see. thank you. time for a look at the weather. we area time for a look at the weather. we are a few minutes later than usual but matt taylor is waiting for us, how are you? hello, very well. hope you are well as well. sunshine across parts of the country today but a wet start in northern england, particularly yorkshire. that rain is continuing. it will ease off as we go through the day. some showers south of it and some isolated showers in scotland and northern ireland that many here will stay dry. county down, parts of the grampians and shetland is most prone to some shells. we could see thunderstorms break out this afternoon in the midlands, east anglia and the south—east, sunshine in between. a cool day where you

have the cloud and rain across northern england and fairly cool to eastern scotland but a bit of sunshine, temperatures in the high teens. 21 in the south—east. showers when we do get them will fade away as we go through this evening and into the first part of the night but as we finished and i are going to the modern, persistent rain spreading from northern ireland to western scotland. across western areas in particular, quite a bit of rain to come. more details on that the news channel later. hello, this is bbc news with annita mcveigh. the headlines: full time school for all children in september the government's to unveil details later for more than eight million pupils in england. in leicester, a local lockdown to deal with a surge in coronavirus cases will see schools close today to all but children of key workers. china demands that britain "immediately stop interfering"

in the affairs of hong kong, after the uk denounced beijing's new security law in the territory which led to mass protests. could we see an extension of the countries we can travel to? dozens more could be exempt from the government's quarantine rules to allow people to go on a foreign holiday. a star studded list, featuring the likes of ed sheeran, sir paul mccartney and annie lennox call on the government to do more to protect the uk's live music venues. as lockdown restrictions ease, people who have been shielding our spending more time outside the home but as exposure to the outside world increases, so can anxiety. one family who has been shielding is calling on the government to officially recognise a logo which indicates that the wearer needs to take special care with social distancing. nina peters has been shielding throughout lockdown,

as two of her children have been diagnosed with lung disease. with help from her son ralph, she's created items with the "shield us" logo and is hoping it will become recognised to allow those wearing it to get the space they need. i m joined now by nina and ralph. i'm pleased to say. also sarah macfadyen, head of policy and public affairs at asthma uk and the british lung foundation, and clinical and health psychologist, dr abigail wroe. good morning, welcome to all of you. nina and ralph, first of all, hello. you are wearing t—shirts and sweatshirts with the logo. tell us more about how it came about? we we re more about how it came about? we were quite nervous the first time we we re were quite nervous the first time we were allowed to go for a walk. we noticed people were coming a closer than we would have liked. the children have pcd but they look really healthy and that the same for many people, a lot of conditions are invisible. people aren't aware of who is at risk. we came up with an idea that a universal logo or a

symbol to warn others these people are at risk and also to alleviate some of the anxiety for those who have been shielding because we have been locked up for weeks on end without seeing anyone and to suddenly go outside again is a big jump. it is a brilliant idea, nina. ican hear jump. it is a brilliant idea, nina. i can hear everyone in the gallery echoing that, saying it is a fantastic idea, great idea. i don't know who could possibly disagree with this as a concept. tell us a bit more about the conditions that that two of your children have? they have pcd, it's a rare genetic lung condition. they get recurrent lung infection and affect their hearing, their nose, their throat and it can affect fertility as well. so they have to do a lot of physio every day. they are on antibiotics a lot which sometimes leads to iv antibiotics in hospital as well.|j would love to ask ralph, if i may,

how he feels about going out? it might be exciting but also do you feel a bit nervous? yeah, i feel a bit nervous when i go outside. but you'd love to be able to get out a bit more and if lots of people knew about this logo, which you help to design, ralph, do you think that would make you feel a bit more co mforta ble would make you feel a bit more comfortable about going outside? yeah. and what is it mainly your design or mum's? my friend designed it, ralph had the final say on which one we used. well done, ralph. i think it's really clear. i wonder if we can remove the strap on our screen so we can see a bit more or maybe you could stand up a bit for us, nina. there we go. there we go!

so, it's a blue shield with a red hand, it's really clear and the word shield at the top, hashtag shield us is what it says. yes. before i speak to some of our other guests, have you had any conversations with the government about this being adopted for those who are shielding? not yet come been trying to tirelessly. that is what we won, for everybody to feel safe. the people we are talking toa feel safe. the people we are talking to a suffering and really anxious to go out and we want everyone to feel safe when they go out and we would love to have it recognised universally. we have a competition going at the moment to try and get it recognised. so the government can reply to us. hopefully, that's what will happen. i hope this publicity helps. if anyone in the government is watching this and would like to tell us what they think about it, they can get in touch or we can get in touch with you and see if you think it is a good idea. let's talk to head of policy and public affairs

at asthma uk foundation. sarah macfadyen. you must recognise the concern that nina has for her children, a situation which so many people who have been shielding are in. would an initiative like this make a real difference, in your opinion? absolutely. what nina is saying absolutely echoes were all sorts of people living with lung conditions have been telling us. we have been surveying people who have a lung condition throughout this pandemic and people have been telling us that shielding has made them very anxious, very stressed. it's affected all parts of their daily lives. there is a lot of anxiety, as well, about going out again and how safe it might be outside and what they risk level is like. sol outside and what they risk level is like. so i think that some sort of a logo like this, for some people, that would be great. some people will really appreciate that. we know some people might be a little less keen on wearing something when they are out and about so i think the

most important thing is that all of us need to take the social distancing rules seriously and remember that you can't tell from looking at somebody whether they have a health condition or not. so we'll need to take the rule seriously and give everybody space when we are out and about, so that people who are at their highest risk will feel safer and more comfortable going out again. because we all know some people are more relaxed about distance and, if i can put it that way, than others and there are some people, frankly, who are darn right oblivious. that is a sort of worrisome people are having. some people are saying at the moment they are not convinced if they start to go out and about a bit more that everybody who they are coming into contact with will be respecting those rules. ithink contact with will be respecting those rules. i think that is why it is so important to remind all of us that there are, the virus is still there and there are people at higher risk than others. so we'll have to be careful to give others their

space when we are outside. let's talk now to clinical health psychologist dr abigail wroe. talk to us about the sort of anxiety people will feel as they begin to contemplate emerging back into the world again because, you know, even people without specific health conditions can feel that way but if you do have a condition that makes you do have a condition that makes you at more risk if you catch covid—19, then the anxiety must skyrocket? yes, good morning. i think we are all balancing risks. there are risks of going out and around covid but there are risks of not going out. so shielding is putting people in different delete —— difficult situations. less connectedness with people and less activity for those who are shielding. we are constantly balancing these risks of going out are not going out and i think

balancing those is even more challenging when people have a particular risk of covid. so, yes, really difficult to balance those risks and as has already been highlighted, when we don't do something for quite a long time, understandably it can be scary doing that thing again. so starting to go out when things are looking different, people are queueing and wearing masks or not wearing masks and actually, sometimes that anxiety can drive us. we need anxious thoughts and fear thoughts because they heighten our awareness to dangers. but sometimes we can be very driven by that and that can lead to avoidance and we know avoidance is a really key part in maintaining anxiety. one would certainly hope if there was a recognised symbol, that the majority of people would respect that and give people a little bit more space to help reduce that anxiety and allow them to go out a little more freely. i just want to finally go

back to nina and ralph. if anyone from the government happens to be watching this gets a chance to see this later, here is your opportunity to deliver a message to them. nina. we just want everyone who has been shielding to feel safe, not feel anxious and be safe when they are out because as we said before, so many conditions are invisible. people are not aware and we need to all pull together and look after each other and make sure these people do feel safe again. and ralph, how much are you looking forward to being able to get out and about again? i'm looking forward to it and hopefully being less nervous. i hope you feel less nervous soon as well. thank you so much and good luck with this campaign. thank you very much. we'll think it's a very good idea. we arejust going to very much. we'll think it's a very good idea. we are just going to see the design one more time if we can. can you stand up for us, nina, and

may be ralph as well? there we go. it isa may be ralph as well? there we go. it is a shield, a red hand. we can't see ralph, there he is! and if you just pull your teacher back down a little bit, ralph, we can see the hashtag at the top. hashtag "shield us". so, ifanyone hashtag at the top. hashtag "shield us". so, if anyone wants to look that up on twitter, you can get involved in the campaign. nina and ralph, thank you so much. dr abigail wroe and thank you for your time. the time is 9:47. the headlines on bbc news... full time school for all children in september the government's to unveil details later for more than eight million pupils in england. china demands that britain "immediately stop interfering" in the affairs of hong kong, after the uk denounced beijing's new security law in the territory which led to mass protests. could we see an extension of the countries we can travel to? dozens more could be exempt from the government's quarantine rules to allow people to go

on a foreign holiday. which leads us our next story. as we've been reporting, passengers travelling between the uk and some countries may no longer have to quarantine, under the government's air bridges scheme. each uk nation sets its own quarantine requirements, so the rules may be relaxed for some parts of the country but not others. the list of air bridge destinations is still to be anounced, but will it be safe to get on a plane this year? professor ashley woodcock is associate dean for clinical affairs at manchester university. he has led a big study on safe flying in a pandemic, and hejoins me now. professor, very good to have you witnessed this morning. lots of people will be contemplating will they go abroad for a summer holiday and of course a big part of the questions they will be looking at, looking for answers to is is it safe

to get on a plane? the broad answer to get on a plane? the broad answer to that, in your opinion? absolutely, i would travel tomorrow. you would travel tomorrow, ok. why do you say that? first of all, i led an expert group with behavioural psychologists and people like that to advise the european and the uk airline industries and airports and department for transport were also involved. the report essentially describes some members delete macro measures that make it safe to travel. travel on planes is a very disciplined environment generally. people behave, they form queues and sit facing the same way. so, in a way, it's safer than other forms of other public transport immediately because of that discipline in both airports and airlines. so the planes themselves at the airports will be

super clean. i think we will have to have our own self discipline. the recommendations were that we would use gel stations at the airport and keep two metres distance where ever we could, but obviously that is not a lwa ys we could, but obviously that is not always possible. we would mitigate that by wearing face masks. self adds a combination of methods. let's imagine we arrive at the airport first of all, before we get on the plane. one would hope airports would have all sorts of measures in place to keep people distant but what about temperature screening at airports before you get on board an aircraft, is that any use, can it give people any reassurance? aircraft, is that any use, can it give people any reassurance ?|j aircraft, is that any use, can it give people any reassurance? i think the one thing about temperature screening is it would stop anybody going to the airport who is feeling ill. it is a disincentive. but actually, i think the evidence is

that temperature screening is ineffective, for a number of reasons. first of all, it misses people with coronavirus who might be infectious but don't have a temperature and that is a substantial proportion of people, i think. when you do have a temperature with coronavirus, generally you are feeling terrible and lying down. then the other issue is it finds people who have got the common cold and flu. are you going to ban all those people with families where one of the children has a cold in september a question mark i think it is really tricky. and can! mark i think it is really tricky. and can i remind ? manchester airport a long time ago had some sniffer dogs for drugs. that might have been a disincentive of passing drugs through manchester airport but they never found any drugs. they found lots of cheese and bright first. that is an interesting analogy. and once you are on the plane, we all know people who say i

have a terrible cold, i picked it up on the flight from where ever. what is the air quality like on the plane and is there a danger that if someone on board has the virus, that somehow, even if they are at the front and you are at the back, that you could pick up that virus on the flight? there are a lot of misconceptions about aeroplanes. first of all, i used to think it would go from the front to the back, the people at the back would be getting the worst but it isn't, it's in sections. it comes from the top of the plane around the bottom of the plane, where it is replaced every three to five minutes, put through hepa filters. something like 20 filters an hour. so the air in plain is incredibly clean, in fact. that is really interesting. let me put it to you this way. someone is considering whether to go abroad for a holiday to fly the or they are thinking, we will help in the car

and drive to somewhere in the uk, which is safer when it comes to the actual travel? i think which is safer when it comes to the actualtravel? i think ? which is safer when it comes to the actualtravel? ithink ? popping in actualtravel? ithink ? popping in a car within your bubble is one issue. i think the issue is about public transport. i think planes are probably the safest form of public transport, compared to the anarchy on the tube, if you know what i mean. people milling around. on a plane, getting towards the plane and on the plane, i think people are very generally disciplined. it's a disciplined environment and i think that's why it makes it safe, together with the recommendations. really good to talk to you, professor ashley woodcock from the university of manchester who has carried out that study into flying during the pandemic. back to one of our headline stories now. some of the biggest names in pop including sir paul mccartney, ed sheeran and annie lennox have signed an open letter urging the government to help protect live music venues from the effects

of the coronavirus. they want an extension to the furlough scheme for those working in the industry, and the removal of vat from tickets when shows re—start. here s our entertainment correspondent colin paterson. ed sheeran and coldplay — both british acts who can fill stadiums around the world. today, they're trying to help those who work in some of the uk's smallest venues. they are amongst the 1,500 acts who have signed a letter calling 4:27.5272 l'zztzes!ezfzégje‘zlzzifzeéézezi‘. music sector financial support, arguing that the lack of shows this summer has left tens of thousands ofjobs at risk. jools holland has been gigging since the 1970s. it filters down from every level. because the smaller the venue, the harder it's going to be for them. the smaller the band, you know, in their stature, the harder it's going to be for them. it has a knock—on effect to everybody. kaiser chiefs were supposed to be touring this summer.

they think it could be a devastating year for those who work behind the scenes. you've got people doing jobs that they do them for love. they do them for the love of music, the love of community, you know, in their community. and if those people disappear off, it's because they have to, because they can't afford to hang around. then you lose those people, and they're hard to replace, and impossible to replace. for three decades, emma banks has put on concerts by the likes of kylie minogue and katy perry. she is worried that many of the uk's grassroots music venues will simply never reopen. it's so, so disturbing. once the rent isn't paid on that venue any more, who's to say that it doesn't get bought up and knocked down, and it becomes another block of flats, or an out—of—town shopping centre, or whatever it is? it's so hard. the government say they're already providing unprecedented financial assistance to organisations and artists, such as loans and thejob retention scheme,

and they're looking at additional support for the industry. as forjust how much this issue has brought the british music scene together, the open letter has been signed by both liam and noel gallagher, the first time for years the feuding brothers have been willing to sign the same thing. and breaking now, wejust had some details about the education secretary will be saying at 11:30am about return to schools. limits on attendance will be lifted to allow schools to open at full capacity. where there are two cases, larger numbers of children may be asked to self—isolate at home. more to come but now the weather with matt taylor. hello, like for some of you, some sunshine around over the next few days but you will all have to prepare for somewhere to weather. some of the rain across north—west england, west and wales will be particularly heavy and relentless through the friday and saturday and all of us are set to see the wind picking up again forced

step today the wind is not too strong but we have seen some heavy rain in northern england. that is pushing southwards. allowing things to brighten up a little bit, many places in the northern half dry this afternoon. but some heavy and thundery downpours could develop in the south. quite a lot of rain in a short space of time. a bit more sunshine in the afternoon, feeling pleasa nt sunshine in the afternoon, feeling pleasant enough in that. county down, through the grampians and shetland scenes in wet weather, the shetlands turning windier later. eastern scotland and northern england, remaining on the cool side today, especially on the coast. sunny moments will bring highs of 21. showers will decay as we go into the night, most places becoming drivers time and persistent rain arrives of the atlantic into northern ireland and western parts of scotla nd northern ireland and western parts of scotland to take us into tomorrow morning. it does mean all of us will have a mild night, 10—14 by and large the temperatures to take us into friday morning. a wet start and a wet day for much of western

scotland, rain at times elsewhere in scotland, rain at times elsewhere in scotland, the exception being orkney and shetland. see some occasional rain in northern ireland but rain in cumbria, north lancashire and north wales will become more persistent as the wind picks up. stay largely dry bits and breaks in the cloud and some sunshine towards east anglia and the south—east, where temperatures are 21, that feeling cooler with the breeze and rain further north. the rain remains coming and going throughout as we go into the weekend. weather fronts trailing one after the other coming in and throughout we will see some strong winds. the saturday, the strongest of the winds across england and wales. lots of cloud around. rain to begin within northern ireland and scotland, also cumbria and west wales. that will develop further, push northwards through saturday, allowing something brighter to develop to the south and east, where temperatures could lift again quite widely into the low 20s. warming up in the sunshine, tempered by the breeze but the winds pick up further into sunday, gales and places, also some rain in the

morning and then some sunny conditions into the afternoon.

fine this is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. full time school for all children in england in september — full time school for all children in england in september. we in england in september. hear every child will be e to we hear every child will be expected to be back in the classroom and they will be taught the full range of subjects with year groups grouped together into bubbles meaning that if someone displays signs of the virus a whole year group could have to go home. a local lockdown to deal with a surge in coronavirus in leicester cases will see schools close today to all but children of key workers. china demands that britain "immediately stop interfering"