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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  July 20, 2020 12:30am-1:01am BST

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china is denying an accusation by britain's foreign minister that it's carrying out human rights abuses against its uighur population. it comes amid a rise in diplomatic tension between the two countries over a new national security law in hong kong. president trump has defended his handling of the coronavirus pandemic, incorrectly telling fox news that the us has the lowest mortality rate in the world. the number of people who have died with covid—19 has now passed 140 thousand — almost a quarter of the global total. the united arab emirates has launched its first space mission, using japanese rockets to send a spacecraft on a 500 million kilometere journey towards mars. the robotic probe, called hope, is due to study the red planet's weather and climate when it arrives next february. chelsea will play arsenal in the fa cup final after beating
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manchester united 3—1 at wembley. it could represent frank lampard's first piece of silverware since taking charge at stamford bridge but as joe wilson reports, the game is likely to be remembered for the performance on manchester united's goalkeeper. the biggest venues seem the emptiest without supporters. a wembley semifinal must be proper, committed. when a chelsea cross had to be defended, eric bailly was there. he needed treatment then, and again soon after another clash of heads. he stood, briefly, before being stretchered away, finally. head injuries must be treated seriously, above anything else. but even in a reorganised defence, there are expectations of a goalkeeper. the finish from giroud had too much for david de gea. at the start of the second half, mason mount‘s finish also had too much for him. and it has gone right through david de gea! and harder to explain. chelsea were so dominant, a third goal seemed appropriate.
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rudiger celebrated it, although it came off maguire‘s boot. hudson—odoi's foul on anthony martial was a clumsy footnote. bruno fernandes popped in a consolation, but the real surprise was just how emphatically the day belonged to chelsea. joe wilson, bbc news. now on bbc news...hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. the international reach of the black lives matter movement has put a new focus on racism in sport. my put a new focus on racism in sport. my guest today is in athlete who made a stand. adam goods was a star in aussie rules football. one of the greatest ever players of aboriginal descent. he quit the game after yea rs of descent. he quit the game after years of racist abuse. a movie has been made of his story. what can
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australia and the wider world learn from it? adam goodes in new south wales welcome to hardtalk. thanks for having me. adam, you quit your support, aussie rules football and 23 being having made a stand against racism —— 2015. five years on and racism —— 2015. five years on and racism and racism in sport is top of the agenda with the black lives matter movement making it such a theme right across the world. how much do you believe has changed in the last five years? i think the biggest thing that's changed for me is that i'm not putting myself in a situation for that abuse to be put on me every time i went to work. so that's the biggest thing that's
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changed for me. i'm incredibly more happier. during that period and i've definitely moved on from that part of my life. i think, if you think globally about what's change, i think a lot more people are woke now to racism. especially casual racism. that's the biggest thing about racism that i think people are learning about. having a little bit more empathy and having a little bit more empathy and having a little bit more education about other peoples race, believes, to be a little bit more tolerant of each other. you have made a very moving documentary film. the australian dream which portrays exactly what happened to you. in many ways is a very unhappy story. it shows your deep depression and unhappiness as you confronted the race issue. it also suggests the
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nation, australia, that was deeply polarised by the issue. has that changed? polarised by the issue. has that changed 7 it's polarised by the issue. has that changed? it's hard to say. i think we wa nt changed? it's hard to say. i think we want as many people across the world to see this documentary. and it isn't just a world to see this documentary. and it isn'tjust a football documentary, this is a documentary about the decisions and choices that i've made as an indigenous person here in australia. but it's also a documentary about the history that's played a part in our country and the choices that i've made. since colonization of the british empire some 200 odd years ago, where they came and claimed our land. saying that there was no people living on this continent. which we obviously know it was a lie. and we are still not written into our constitution here in australia. we are the only country, part of the commonwealth that hasn't got sovereign treat with its first people. so there lots of
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issues in this documentary that we talk to. which have affected me and my journey and me talk to. which have affected me and myjourney and me finding my voice asa myjourney and me finding my voice as a strong, indigenous person. interesting you say that. finding your voice. i want to take you right back to childhood. you were born as an indigenous mum and dad who was actually an immigrant i believe, from great britain. you, i want actually, whether you did as a kid, identify as aboriginal and whether that was an important part of your upbringing? yes, it's a little bit ha rd to upbringing? yes, it's a little bit hard to identify with my reddish a ncestry hard to identify with my reddish ancestry with a colour of my skin. -- it ancestry with a colour of my skin. —— it british. it was very clear that i didn't figure out that i was a minority. iwore that i didn't figure out that i was a minority. i wore my colour of my skin asa a minority. i wore my colour of my skin as a badge of honor. i knew that i was aboriginal from a tribe from —— means rock people. from
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south australia. my whole life was a journey about learning more about why i didn't grow up knowing, speaking that language and the regret that came with that as well. were you bullied at school? were you facing day to day discrimination and worse as a kid? not every day. i think what made it easier for me, worse as a kid? not every day. i think what made it easierfor me, i went to six different primary schools, two different high schools just as we moved around there's a lot of indigenous families do to try and find a place. my mum raised us three boys by ourselves. i think for me, the bully and came it was obviously directed at the colour of my skin. but i had some really good friends from different schools. i think what made it a little bit easier to break down those barriers is that i could kick a ball, i could catch a ball, i could throw a ball,
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i could jump catch a ball, i could throw a ball, icouldjump high, catch a ball, i could throw a ball, i could jump high, run fast. those sort of attributes made it easier for me to fit in over time. i'm just very mindful that the guy you collaborated with the film, australian dream on who wrote the film, big part of the film, he talked about as a young person growing up with such a sense of shame. he said to be aboriginal in my youth was to be ashamed, ashamed of our poverty, ashamed of our second—hand close, these second—hand sort of lifestyle, the broken glass, the constant movement. and yet you then became a standout athlete. how difficult was it to have a foot in both worlds? we still have a foot in both worlds? we still have a foot in both worlds. steve, i think, both worlds? we still have a foot in both worlds. steve, ithink, most indigenous people live in two worlds. the western world and a culture, spiritual world of the
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indigenous ancestry that we had. which has a lot of trauma and baggage. hopelessness, disadvantage that's been passed on from generation to generation. what we tend to do is create role models and be able to break down those barriers that i keep talking about. for our future generations to understand that it does take hard work to be successful. and you've got to have to work harder than nonindigenous people if you want to be successful. because of the barriers that might standard your way. from the very late 90s through the 2000 you became a really top talent. you paid net play for the city swans, you won all sorts of personal and team awards. and cups and championships. and then came one extraordinary moment at the height of your career in 2013. which arguably, changed your life. we got arguably, changed your life. we got a little clip of a film which gives
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a little clip of a film which gives a sense of what happened. let's just have a look at that right now. a sense of what happened. let's just have a look at that right nowlj have a look at that right now.|j just remember running down grabbed the ball kept pushing closer to the fence. and here from the crowd goodes, you're an ape. time to sort of stopped in my head. i was like whoa. and ijust turned around and i said to the security guard i want her out of here. now when i looked at the person i could see it was a kid. he definitely pointed to someone in the crowd. he's definitely not happy about something. that is an extraordinary moment. i'm just something. that is an extraordinary moment. i'mjust wondering, something. that is an extraordinary moment. i'm just wondering, at what point did you realise at that horrible abuse that you had heard had come from a child? yeah, you've
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got to sort of, put this moment in time and a bit of context as well. that week of the round we were playing on a friday night was the start of an indigenous round where we celebrate indigenous people, players and culture over this weekend. and the contribution that indigenous people have made to the game. also during the week did a photograph emulating the great nikki winmark who is in the documentary as well. it was the 20 year anniversary to the week when nikki widmark stood up to the week when nikki widmark stood up in again and lifted his shirt up at the end pointing to his black skin saying, i am black and at the end pointing to his black skin saying, iam black and i at the end pointing to his black skin saying, i am black and i am now, i did that and they printed that the morning of our game. so this was a pretty big built up game. we're playing against a team i used to barry for in the mcg. ijust
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happen to have a day out that game. it was late into the corner when that incident happened. itjust absolutely, could not believe it. by the time i turned around and pointed it was a young female. and it wasn't until the security guard came over andi until the security guard came over and i pointed that i walked away and the team—mate was player right near me was darrenjolley the team—mate was player right near me was darren jolley who the team—mate was player right near me was darrenjolley who had won a premier with its indian 2005. he came out to me and said what's wrong make was that i said may, she's 13 01’ make was that i said may, she's 13 or 1a years old, i can't believe it. his equity what he talking about, when you talk about? and ijust went to the bench and ijust couldn't believe it was such a young person. calling me an ape from the boundary line. there was a huge amount of sympathy for you but there was also far more conservative australians a real backlash. some accused you in the way that you pointed at her then
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the way that you pointed at her then the way that you pointed at her then the way the security escorted her from the stadium. and the way you spoke about it afterwards, talking about the face of racism in australia. they said you in essence, we re australia. they said you in essence, were unreasonably bullying a 13—year—old girl. did you pause to consider whether they might have a point? i spoke to her after the game. her and her sister. point? i spoke to her after the game. herand hersister. i had a really good conversation with them about what it was that they called me. she said look, i'm so sorry i had no idea that ape was a racial term. it was good to have a conversation with her and her sister because to my point of this whole conversation was, these girls don't know what they were saying. they we re know what they were saying. they were copying people in the crowd who obviously, knew what they were saying by calling me an ape. and these young girls were just copying that. and that's the environment that. and that's the environment that these young girls are being educated in. so this was, the whole
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conversation was about educating our young people. but educating people who do you say those things in those public arenas that people are listening. and people are observing and they're thinking that it's ok if you can see it then i can say it. what's interesting is the documentary that you just made which reflects back on that incident, because it was a turning point in your life and maybe in the debate in australia. it's interesting that you give a voice to conservatives who criticise you and who in essence say that you have been provocative in your career. you for example, at one point after that when you were being booed constantly by some of the fans in the stadiums, you did what is in aboriginal sort of war dance after scoring a goal. according to them, made matters worse. and you allow their voices to be heard. is that
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because you want to expose them? do you feel those voices are themselves racist? you work in the media steve, these people, people who work in the media who everyone has a voice and eve ryo ne d ese rves media who everyone has a voice and everyone deserves to have a voice. it's that about how do we make people accountable for their boys? i just want to go out there and played the game. now, when i did that indigenous war cry, this was once again, indigenous round where we are supposed to be celebrating indigenous people, indigenous culture. and that round i was wearing the city swans scare and see which was designed by my mother with indigenous designs on it. so if that wasn't the moment to do an indigenous war cry being in indigenous war cry being in indigenous round and i'm an indigenous round and i'm an indigenous person with an indigenous design by my mother, ijust don't know if indigenous culture should ever be expressed on a football
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field. i want to think about the way in which sportsmen handle racist abuse today. because as you're probably aware, in football for example, soccer, i guess you might call it, there are now protocols in international games and we've seen at the tingling players where if they aren't receiving racist abuse and obviously were talking about the black england players, then a warning is put out across the stadium. if this continues the game will cease. and we've actually seen it happen now in international matches. where players have walked off the field because of racist abuse from the stands. looking back, do you wish that you and your team—mates had actually walked off the field when you experience races abuse? i don't think my team-mates need to make such a big stance for me. if i can create the type of action that needs to happen through me reporting that person post game,
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them apologising to me and then me actually taking that apology on. there is a due process. but u nfortu nately there is a due process. but unfortunately here in australia what we are seeing now is social media is used as that tool to racially vilify oui’ used as that tool to racially vilify our black players and athletes across our nation. it is truly unfair. and these people use profiles that they just unfair. and these people use profiles that theyjust make out. and it's really hard to capture who these people are. the abuse that racial abuse i've had at football fields, i've always been able to see the person who did that. so i was able to point them out and report them and have a conversation with those people. on what it is and hold them accountable for what they have said. unfortunately, when you have a majority of the arena but you, it's really ha rd to
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majority of the arena but you, it's really hard to really pinpoint those individuals who started. whether or not they are bullying me because local or because of my race. clearly, in that. after 2013 through 22015, it got to you to a point where i'm quoting something you said, ifelt like an where i'm quoting something you said, i felt like an absolute piece of well, it's a word i can't repeat on tv. you said i was an emotional wreck, i didn't want to go to training, ifelt like i'd neverfelt before in my entire career. i broke down. and then of course, you literally walked away. you left city and you went back to your ancestral homeland in the flinders mountains. but was it also ate metaphorical walking away? and a sense looking back, do you feel that you were defeated walking away? no. i think any person of colour and race that has ever been racially abused will understand how i was feeling during
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that period of time. and they can really connect with. i suppose that's why the documentary is having so much success internationally is because a lot of people can connect to that feeling that i've been through. and what they've been through. and what they've been through in their life and being marginalised against. when you are ina dark marginalised against. when you are in a dark place it's like you've com pletely in a dark place it's like you've completely forgotten everything anybody has ever said to you that was good. or that you think of all the bad things that have happened to you. or you think about all the things that the people said to you. and it's on a stereo playing the loudest possible decibels in your head. echoing in your mind, your worth nothing. they don't even care about you. go away. to stand on land
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and say 2000 generations of my family are from here, i'm born out of this place, that feeling is not something that you can feel anywhere else. me choosing to walk away was me making a choice for my own mental health. and i needed to get away from this toxic environment which add up until that point in time, then a safe place for me to just be an incredible player that i wanted to be. and for me to learn to be the leader that i was. but here i had a choice to submit myself to this toxic environment or to get away from it. and really reassess my priorities. it was that aaa back to the flinders ranges that helped me realign what my purpose was. and that this was going to be my last year. and that i can get through the last six games of that season and be
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able to walk away from the game for good. what strikes me in this interview is you speak so calmly about the personal experience that we discussed in the state of australia today. but you must be very angry, are you? look, steve, i think there's two ways that you can be, you can be angry because it is an angry situation. if you think of colonization and the white australian policies that sat in behind it. we've only been able, recognising australia as citizen for the last 53 years. before that we we re the last 53 years. before that we were only seen as flora and fauna. so you can focus on all the negativity or you can be part of the positive. i've chosen to focus on the positive. i don't want to be angry, i don't, the positive. i don't want to be angry, idon‘t, i the positive. i don't want to be angry, i don't, i have a young daughter sleeping in the room just next to me, i don't want her to be angry about our past. i want her to be proud about who she is as an indigenous woman. i want her to be
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proud of her father indigenous woman. i want her to be proud of herfatherfor indigenous woman. i want her to be proud of her father for the way that he keeps on trying to be positive and focus on the good things in our community. and being part of the good things. whether it be around education, employment for our people. why is it in your words, that new zealand, the country nuts are very farfrom that new zealand, the country nuts are very far from you, you're often sorted compared with his in your words, light years ahead of us in australia when it comes to the attitudes towards treatment of indigenous people? why? it's very simple. when the english went to new zealand they signed a treaty with the local indigenous people. they have sovereignty of their own country. in australia when the english came here and invaded us they claimed karen nally is. as the com plete they claimed karen nally is. as the complete difference. it's why we're ahead of where we are today. so, what to do about it? you have a prime minister, scott morrison who
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recently claimed that there never have been slavery and australia. he defends captain cook, the british settler who you are referring to when you talk about this idea of birds landing on the empty land of australia. it is the leadership in your country listening to you ? australia. it is the leadership in your country listening to you? you now run foundations, you're involved with business empowerment for aboriginal people, but other people in power listening? i don't know if they are listening or not. there's other issues going on in our country that they think it needs more attention. you have to remember, we are 2.8% of the population here in australia. not much time and effort is put into working with us as indigenous people. when i mean working with us, that's listening to us, taking our advice and creating
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good governance and policy behind it. we have some incredible indigenous leaders now in our government parties. which is great. we need more of it. me, i will work with government, i will hope did not help them achieve when it comes to indigenous outcomes. but i don't have time to wait for them. and i don't, indigenous people don't have time to wait for the government to get this right. so we are working with corporate here in australia who understand it, who see the value in working with indigenous people. whether it's through education, employment or with philanthropic work. there great opportunities for carpets here and australia. they've really need to be acknowledged for the work they've been able to do. and helping raise indigenous peoples lives during the last 20 plus years when it comes to building capability for our people. final thought, you call your film the australian dream,
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do you believe in it? or is that ironic? it's up to the people who watch the documentary, i think. anyone who's been to australia has a com pletely anyone who's been to australia has a completely different view of our country than what i do, that's for sure. then any indigenous person has. but i think any person who lives in australia and watches his documentary might change what the australian dream means to them. we have a lot of people that have come here on boats and planes who are living the australian dream. they've escaped more, they've escaped great depression, they've been pushed out of the countries by other invading countries and they come to australia and have been able to in one or two generations live a better life than what they did when they came here. u nfortu nately for what they did when they came here. unfortunately for edge of original, we are still yet to reap in the benefits that everybody else does when it relates to the australian dream. buti when it relates to the australian dream. but i am hopeful. and i think
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when you watch the documentary there is that sense of hope. as you know, you had the indigenous voices during the documentary. we are all hopeful that we all can live that australian dream that we prosper too. adam goodes it's been a pleasure to have you on hardtalk. thanks very much indeed. thanks, steve. temperatures by day will be close to average this week. we start the week with overnight temperatures below average. quite chilly, first thing monday morning. temperatures will head up. a fair amount of sunshine out there.
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high pressure settling things down to start the week. around that area of high pressure will be some showers, especially in scotland. these are the starting temperatures for monday morning. widely in single figures. these are towns and city centres, colder in the countryside. well into single figures in the more chilly spots. some cloud is going to build. for scotland a mixture of cloud and sunshine. most of the showers north of the central belt. northern ireland and northern england may pick up a shower later. the bulk of england and wales will stay dry with the lion's share of the sunshine for south wales and southern england with some spots creeping into the low 20s. as for the cricket at old trafford, looking like a not particularly warm monday for the final day, a mixture of cloud and sunshine with the chance of picking up a brief passing shower. monday evening, any showers that
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forms will tend to die away. they will continue on and off in northern scotland overnight. for most of us it will be another dry, clear and chilly night going into tuesday morning and again on tuesday there will be a lot of sunshine to start the day. there is a chance of catching a shower again more especially across parts of scotland with the odd one may be found elsewhere, northern ireland and northern england, with cloud thickening and a chance of patchy rain to the further north and west you are through the day. temperatures, a few spots getting into the low 20s in some sunny spells but most will not get that high. there is a weather system coming on tuesday night into wednesday and as these weather fronts moving it will bring rain into northern ireland and scotland and on wednesday reaching for a time into northern england. thursday and friday, the chance of a shower, and then into next weekend, it looks like low pressure
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will come back, temperatures coming down a few degrees, and we will see rain spreading east. goodbye.
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this is bbc news. i'm lewis vaughan jones with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. china denies an accusation by britain's foreign minister, that it's carrying out human rights abuses against its uighur population. can i ask you why people are kneeling blindfolded and shaven and being led to trains in modern china? what is going on there? i do not know what you are getting this video tape. president trump has defended his handling of the coroanvirus pandemic, incorrectly telling fox news that the us has the lowest mortality rate in the world. i heard we have one of the lowest, it may be lowest mortality rate anywhere in the world. do you have the numbers,
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please? i heard we had the best mortality rate.

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