this is bbc news, the headlines... search teams in the lebanese capital, beirut, say they have found possible signs of life in a collapsed building — a month after the huge blast which destroyed parts of the city. rescuers said they'd detected a pulse two metres deep in the rubble in a residential area. joe biden has spoken by phone to jacob blake — the black man whose shooting by police in wisconsin sparked days of unrest. in a speech in the city of kenosha, mr biden accused donald trump of legitimising the dark side of human nature. south korea has now imposed a near—lockdown in the capital after a surge in cases. experts say the situation has been made worse by extreme evangelical churches — who've convinced many followers that the pandemic is part of a government conspiracy.

now on bbc news, newscast with adam fleming and jo coburn. rich preston will be here at the top of the hour. big news in the podcasting world, alan partridge has now got a podcast — which got me thinking, what other 90s celebrities — who you can imagine in a sort of leisure—wear jumper telling a dad joke could we wrestle up? i thought, "tony blair!" hello, tony! alan partridge has got a podcast. thank you. are you going to get a podcast? no, and i've had better introductions, but thank you anyway. and worst one as well. that was kind of in the middle. are you and alan partridge fan, or is he not really your thing? no, actually, iam. i think i was interviewed by him at an early stage when i was labour leader. 0h... yeah, i was doing that in the old days. i think there is probably some embarrassing interview material around.

ifeel a call to the bbc archives coming up. archive: here he is, he's dying to become prime minister, tony blair. applause. he went straight to a rally of young labour party members hosted by the comedian, steve coogan. mr blair blamed the government for the lack of opportunity. they've run it on this narrow basis for a few people at the top, and what we haven't got is a government that's prepared to build us the type of decent civic society for the many and not the few. that's enough alan partridge, because we are going to talk to you about your new passion — which is just getting testing for coronavirus sorted out in the uk and the rest of the world. all that you come with tony blair on this edition of newscast. newscast from the bbc. hello, it's adam in the studio here at westminster. no laura or chris this week, so, instead, we have... jo coburn. from politics live, welcome. yes, from politics live,

and how many times can i mention the programme on this podcast? ok, that's one mention already. but, first of all, do you remember that labour conference with alan partridge v tony blair? i do remember it, i wasn't there, i have to say. i wasjust starting as a political correspondence, ——i was just starting as a political correspondent, but i remember it on the news, adam. it's so 90s though. just that footage is so 905! and what was wrong with the 90s? 0h, nothing, nothing. laughing. anyway, let's talk about the 20205, and this week, certainly, if you read the newspaper, it sounds like there's quite a lot of conservative backbenchers who just think boris johnson's performance has not been up to it in the last couple of days, the last couple of weeks. what is your take on that? well, we have heard from quite a few mps, actually, some of whom are normally very loyal, and to pick up on borisjohnson's sort of sailing analogy, of feeling a bit seasick. because he is talking about taking to the left,

taking to the right, but coming to the sort of right decision. and some of his mps, namely charles walker and a couple of others i've spoken to on the phone privately, saying, actually, he's a bit all at sea on some issues and they don't know whether they should come out onto the airwaves and defend policies, like the exams, for example, because then it could change two days later, and then they feel a bit silly, and they look a bit silly, and they are not quite sure how quickly things are going to reverse or u—turn. the government would say, "no, this isn't a u—turn, "this is us coming and changing and being flexible to "the better decision." they would say it on exams, but there are plenty of other examples. what i think is interesting about all of this, because we always as very experienced journalists think back to previous examples, and so i always think of david cameron's first u—turn in the coalition was that selling off the public forests, which is a big thing in our minds as political journalists, but no one sits going, "0h, during that

time david cameron you turned on the forest?" —— you turn so ijust wonder how real bases, and as a trickle down into the real world? or is this actuallyjust a sort of party management problem here at westminster? well, i think both can be true, and it depends on which u—turn or coming to the right decision you are talking about. i think with the exams, it did cut through because it affected an awful lot of people. but i think there are some other examples where the opposition... i notcied at prime minister's questions, said there...kier starmer said, "there have been 12 u—turns. " ian blackford said that there had been eight, or the other way around, but i sort of thought "0k, "so what are we counting here is a u—turn, as "a change of policy?" right. every episode these days, we seem to have the travel desk, because it's quarantine exemption day. and this is getting so confusing now, not helped by the fact that i can't read my own writing. well... so, if you are travelling back to scotland from portugal. yes. you will have to go into quarantine and for two weeks.

that's right. also if you come back from anywhere in greece to scotland, you will have to quarantine. and wales? in wales, if you come back from portugal, you have to quarantine, but you will only have to quarantine if you have been to six particular greek islands. ah. not the whole of greece. and is that after that flight from...? yes, from zakynthos — it's actually called, in greece. is it? yeah. good for you. the producer, dino, gets very very upset about that because of his greek heritage. good pronunciation of that. however, if you fly back from england for many of those places, you can do whatever you want, there is no quarantine for them. well, this is the joyful situation of the four nations of the united kingdom going their own way, diverging, if you like. when it comes to, actually, quite a lot actually, quite a lot of things, it seems — some of it is timing, and some of it, when it comes to travel corridors, air bridges and of quarantine, doing completely different things. actually, i noticed nicola sturgeon, as i was coming into the studio today, warning, the first time i have really heard that sort of general warning,

that cases are rising, people really do need to stick to the guidelines. you've got now the bizarre situation of welsh people annoyed that they will get quarantined at english people who paid loads of money to get an earlier flight to come home complaining that they won't be. i know. going on how it is getting very expensive. very expensive, and it's become one of those, like, sort of, board games, not that i want to trivialize it, because i can imagine the aggravation it must be, it was quite a struggle getting in here this evening. the aggro of picking where to go, how to get back back your plan b, your plan c, can you take two weeks off quarantine? can you get back in time for the kids to go back to school? can you get tests? i mean, it's all become so stressful, i'm beginning to think, may become a stay at home. i don't know. stay at home, where have i heard that before? right, testing. yeah. you have actually done one of these home tests, haven't you? i have. what was it like, without getting too... actually, do get graphic.

well, i can get quite graphic. well, the first thing is, it arrives in a sort of this size square plastic container. it arrives very quickly after you fill in the form online, because we are key workers, adam, before i started coming back into the studio regularly, i thought, i will do a test, i didn't have symptoms. it arrives, and actually, the most complicated thing is setting everything out, washing your hands for 20 seconds, setting everything out, so that you put everything in the right order. now, the worst bit is obviously sticking the long cotton ball bud down the back of your throat. and it says to sort of scrape your tonsils for ten seconds, well, i don't have any tonsils. 0k. they were taken out when i was young. very revealing. sorry. so, you do the best you can and then you do, you know, it does make you gag a little bit. 0k. i didn't find the nose as bad, but other people have said it's the other way around. and then you put it in your little test tube, it breaks off, screw it in, you have to put it in one plastic bag, then you put it in another plastic bag, then you have to verify the codes on the box, which is like an origami test. you have to package all in, security seal, you've got

a priority post box that you have to locate, mine is very close by to where i live. then you have to put it there very close to the last delivery, so it gets back to wherever it goes, the testing lab, and you get the results within about two days. ok, so, some people... i did notice it was negative. yeah, that was the first thing i should've asked you, obviously. yes. now, the reason i was asking you that, though, is there has been a bit of news about testing today because the boss of test and trace in england has had to apologise because the bbc found out that the other bit of the testing process — which is where you go to a drive—in centre and someone else swabs your tonsils for you — some of the resources have been re—prioritized from areas with fewer cases with areas with more cases, but that means if you live in an area with fewer cases and you want a test, some people have been told to drive hundreds and hundreds of miles across the country to get their appointments. well, it's hardly convenient, is it? i mean, the whole idea about testing, for me, i would imagine, is the speed with which you can either access the home kit or get to a drive—in centre and then get the results. i mean, driving from one end of the country to

the other doesn't sound very practical or desirable. now, someone who has set themselves up as a bit of a guru when it comes to testing has become a real geek on this subject is the former prime minister, tony blair. as promised, here is the conversation i had with him, which we recorded a couple of hours ago in our other studio for boring technical reasons, but it's a very interesting conversation. you have become a bit of a coronavirus testing geek, haven't you? yeah, well, itjust seems to me that the obvious thing is to try and deal with the essential problem of coronavirus, which is that it's bad enough that people don't really want it, so that's why you have got the lockdown. 0n the other hand, at any one time, very few people have got it. so if you are not able to know who has it and who doesn't have it, then you have to end up with the very blunt instrument of locking down everyone, even though there is only a small proportion of your population that will be affected. so, it is obvious, particularly once you start to realise

you are going to live with this disease, you are not going to eradicate it, you are going to live with it for a time, the only way to get through it and to give people the confidence to go back to the workplace and to go back to normal life is if you know what your disease status is. when was your eureka moment in this whole crisis — when you realised that was the key? at the very beginning, when you look at the figures, because... look, for the majority of people who get coronavirus, they suffer either minor symptoms or no symptoms. the majority of people are asymptomatic. so, there is then another group of people that get it but it isn't much worse than a normal flu. your problem is the 10% that get it badly and in some cases fatally. so, you've got a situation where, obviously, for large numbers of people, they are going to get it and not feel very much. it is highly infectious. 0n the other hand, it's not the bubonic plague, so the question is, how do

you make sense of the virus and the fact that you've got to contain it at the same time as trying to get back to normal? the only way you do that is really through mass testing. right at the very beginning, i mean, ithink, to be fair, the government are doing this now, i think we should have been accelerating the development of rapid on the spot tests, because the problem with the tests that we have at the moment, which are all lab —based, most of them are lab—based, is that they are complicated, and it can take some time for the tests to come back. what you need to get to in the end is a rapid on the spot testing done regularly. yes, let's talk about the future in a minute, butjust the here and now, there is a story on the today about the existing testing capacity, it seems it's been focused on areas where there are outbreaks at the moment, meaning people who need a test in areas where it's less severe are having to perhaps drive 150 miles to get a test. what you think has gone wrong there? what do you think has gone wrong there?

yeah, that is because, again, at the very beginning, we have not used all the lab capacity that we have at our disposal. we have taken quite a restrictive view, both of what tests should be made available and what lab capacity is used, and the truth is, you need to have this testing capability close to people, so, for example, one of the things that we have been looking out recently is how do you get schools and universities back? and back in a way that gives people confidence? there is no reason why, in fact, they are starting this in some universities around the world, why you shouldn't test students as they come back, and then test them regularly. but you can only do that if the facilities for testing are close by. yeah, so what damage do think is being done to the uk by, for example, the quarantine thing for 14 days for travel? it's going to be... for international travel, it's killing it. so, the point is, the other thing that is very obvious about this, and this is why you need this risk calculus, is, yes, you have got

all the issues to do with the disease and, you know, maybe before i even say this, let me say one other thing — this is a really difficult challenge for government. so, and i have been in government for ten years, i've been prime minister for ten years, i can tell you i have never come across a more difficult challenge. so i say this, not in the spirit of, sort of, you know, why haven't the government on this, that or the next thing? this is going to be difficult for whichever government is in power. but the important thing is to get the right risk calculus and strategy around the disease, and the point is that, yes, the disease has certain impacts and costs, and we know all about those, but lockdown has massive economic costs and health care costs. i mean, the numbers of people who aren't getting the treatment they need or haven't through the course of this disease are enormous. so, you have to have a calculation that allows you to manage it, you have to have measures in place that allow you to contain it, and then you have to prepare

for what may well be a resurgence of the disease in the winter — when it's going to be much, much harder to lockdown, and when you are going to have other competing issues, like the flu. yeah. so all of this means, that whatever time and space that you've got now, take the decisions you need to make now, and i think the critical thing is to put in place that containment infrastructure, in particular, the mass testing. well, matt hancock this morning has announced that the government is ploughing loads of money into some trials, one of which is mass testing in salford and the north—west and using these saliva tests, so they are much quicker, much easier for people to use. he's basically doing what you wanted him to do, isn't he? yes. so, this is good, and what matt hancock is talking about, and actually what harding is trying to do with the test and traces, obviously, this is absolutely the right things. i mean, you know, it's... a bit late? possibly, yeah, we could have been doing...

i mean, i think we should have been backing these moonshot rapid testing devices several months ago, but nonetheless, look, we are doing it and its important, and, you know, they are coming on stream now, not just here in the uk, but around the world. do you think the antipathy and the suspicion people had about id cards in your era could now evaporate when you present people with it as freedom from quarantine and lockdown? yeah, look, i don't think the antipathy was ever very well grounded, frankly. the main thing today is the technology has come on by leaps and bounds, so all of these issues around privacy can be dealt with now. and, you know, you don't need a large amount of information. people give a lot more information probably to their supermarkets than they will to the government. but, what is necessary now, it's an obvious thing to move in the direction of digital id, because its enabler for people.

notjust, by the way, in relation to covid—i9 and coronavirus, it's a huge enabler in respect of interaction with government, but for this purpose of the disease, yes, especially by the way you get look, once, i mean, you know, again, we are tracking the vaccines around the world. i think there are maybe 7—8 really promising ones that look like they've got a reasonable chance of working. but once they start coming into use, you are going to want the record of the fact that you have been vaccinated. you will want a record kept by the government of who has been vaccinated. the minister will be essential in restoring confidence. if we did have this tony blair instituted mass testing system that's working really well that everyone embraces, does that mean, actually, we can literally start embracing again and that social distancing goes out the window because you replace all of that with just amazing testing? i think people are going to have to be careful on social distancing, whatever happens. the other thing that we are learning is that for the

people with underlying conditions and those as a result of age who are most vulnerable, i mean, ithink they are shielding themselves. i think one of the reasons why, again, if you look at the data, the death rates are coming down and the profile of the people getting the disease is younger, is that we have learned that shielding is important. so i think shielding and a degree of social distancing i think would probably have to stick with that. i was talking to some experts yesterday, they reckon it's two years that we will be living with this in a reasonably serious state, in other words, it will take us quite a long time before you get the vaccines and, you get the distributed, you learn what works, what doesn't work. so you are going to be carrying on with all lots of the infrastructure around

coronavirus. i think for the next two years, realistically. does that mean two christmases in the blair household where you, the kids and the grandkids may be can't be together? well, no, again, if you... if you are careful and you have been tested, you know, depending on what the pathway of the diseases come you probably can do that. certainly, i would hope, you know, this christmas may be... i guess you can't tell, it may be strange for people. next christmas, hopefully we are back to something much closer to normal. but i'm just saying, before you are fully back to normal, you know, it could take that long. you just can't be sure. that's why the other thing you have got to do is you have got to get as much of the economy moving again, because in the beginning, i have been terrified by the economic damage of this. i still don't think we realise the amount of damage it's going to do,

because there are whole industries that are going to get disrupted and some of these changes are going to end up being permanent. i don't think bricks and mortar retail is going to go back to where it was. i think the reason you are seeing the stock market accelerates with all of these, you know, tech stops is because there are ways that people are doing things now that they are going to carry on doing. can it ta ke going to carry on doing. can it take you in a quick fire to her around some other new stories that are going on at the moment. the subject formally known as brexit, how would you break the deadlock? because it's clearly just a break the deadlock? because it's clearlyjust a massive deadlock between the uk and the eu. i... it's... shrug? itry not to talk about it because people know what i think about it, andi people know what i think about it, and i feel so people know what i think about it, and ifeel so strongly about it, and you know, it's... he was so much against it, but even the deal that they are going to get is pretty thin. evenif going to get is pretty thin. even if they get one. how thin

oi’ even if they get one. how thin or otherwise willjob ayden‘s result be in the us presidential election? —— joe biden. youjust presidential election? —— joe biden. you just can't tell. i mean, it's obviously going to bea mean, it's obviously going to be a strongly close election. it think the most difficult thing about american politics right now, and, i hope, you know, with the new leadership in the labour party we avoid this here is just in the labour party we avoid this here isjust the divisiveness. i mean for my fellow american politics a lot, obviously, the divisiveness and their politics is... it's really difficult for me you know, they definitely need some healing. do you think the democrats are slighting too far in it when extreme direction? —— slighting? in it when extreme direction? -- slighting? welcome i think joe biden will pull them back to centre. i have known them for a long time. he's a decent sensible i. anyway, we will see. i always say to people, i've got enough problems with my own politics without

speculating. anything else keeping you up at night? the only other point i would make is, it's a global pandemic, and i really hope that the world leaders come together and see what they can do together to make sure that the pandemic is dealt with globally. so, for example, on that scene, do not end up in a situation where the wealthy countries get the back seats come poor countries are scrabbling for them. —— vaccines. it wouldn't just scrabbling for them. —— vaccines. it wouldn'tjust be morally wrong, it would be totally against our own interests. if coronavirus is circulating in the world anywhere, it is a problem for countries everywhere. anywhere, it is a problem for countries everywherelj anywhere, it is a problem for countries everywhere. i think we call that a wide—ranging interview in the trade, wouldn't we? i thought it was extremely interesting, adam. well done. yes, wide—ranging, covering as many topics as possible, but testing certainly central the interview with tony blair. it's funny, isn't it, that he has become, as you say, a sort of expert, that that is his interest. you don't often

see, sort of, former prime ministers, certainty not recently, coming right back to the fore in the way that he has. notjust with the fore in the way that he has. not just with the the fore in the way that he has. notjust with the pandemic but also with brexit, obviously. because you haven't been quite that way, i mean, theresa may is quite recent, but david cameron or gordon brown, so, yes, he seems to be the most ubiquitous in that sense, doesn't he? on another note, did you do the all staff briefing at midday today?|j briefing at midday today?” did. therel briefing at midday today?” did. there i was, positioned at the mid day to listen to the new director general, tim devi. what did you think? welcome i was going to say was his first day, but actually that was earlier in the week. this is his first day addressing all of us. his first day addressing all of us. well, i don't think it matters what i think. i think it matters what our media editor thanks. here is his take on tim davies third day at the office. tim davies, he's a familiar figure to people at the bbc. he's a sort of insider outsider. he ran the commercial wing of the bbc, so lots of people feel that they know him,

but this is obviously a huge moment for him. he has someone who has turned on otherjobs outside the bbc, wanted to be director general for a while i think. and what he set out very clearly today was the idea that the bbc is at a crossroads. i thought he was pretty effective at raising the spectre of a kind of moment where you have got to make decisions. very strikingly, adam, in his first e—mailto strikingly, adam, in his first e—mail to staff, a while back when the job was announced, he said one of the things that will be a hallmark of history is that you have got to make clear decisions. he said we are ata clear decisions. he said we are at a crossroads, we have to make clear decisions. he said there were four areas he wanted to focus on, impartiality, bbc is having a bit of a reputational hit, it's quite ha rd reputational hit, it's quite hard to defend your reputation for impartiality in the age of social media, the beat as he has got work to do there. he was open about that. he said you have got to make unique high—value content, he will focus on mine, because the bbc is clearly going to be digital. and he said the bbc is going to raise its commercial revenue. tim davies also said he didn't wa nt to tim davies also said he didn't want to be busy to go to a subscription model where only the people that wanted it paid

for it. but i suppose that is not a decision that is in his hands. that will be a negotiated —— negotiation and the government in a few years time. he did make that point quite early on when he stood up and addressed all of staff. there were two things that really struck me about what he said, tim davies, and one was about making decisions, and making them quite quickly. so he said there won't be any short—term cut two channels, short—term cut two channels, short term. i don't know what short—term means in terms of years. but, beyond that, there could be. if channels hadn't prove n could be. if channels hadn't proven themselves to be universally popular or appealing to audiences or good value for money, and the other thing was about impartiality. now, you and i know it has been sort of embedded into the core of our systems, because we were political correspondence and rep porters and presenters that of course, impartiality is what we are about. —— reporters. but we are about. —— reporters. but we have to absently restate and reinforce this idea about no political bias and of hearing

views from a wide spectrum, not just left and right, because of the sort of culture wars that we have seen over the last few years and continue to do so. and there is going to be a raining and of social media of some high—profile figures, i mean, in general, not people in particular, and also, outside earnings are going to be left out, and he is going to make these decisions, as i say, probably in the coming weeks and months. so, be on standby for some of these things coming along quite soon. and as you said, he wants us to be making more money commercially, which i think spells, newscast merge. just think about... limitjust thing about yourself, adam. millions! my face on a tea towel. you and me on a tea towel. you and me on a tea towel. which mode do you late? that was daily politics, no longer. writes, thank you very much forjoining us. it's been delightful to be here, and! it's been delightful to be here, and i love the studio. it's on most good is politics live studio, for the mention.

well done. think spray much come injoe. thank you for listening. we will be back with another upset of new cows —— newscast very soon. hello there. looks like we are all in for a dose of cooler, fresher weather over the coming few days. could be perfect weather for seeing some rainbows, just as we saw on thursday here by a weather watcher in scotland. further south, it's been milder and quite muggy for a while. temperatures ahead of the cloud and drizzle were as high as 23 celsius in the southeast of england. it's a cooler start to friday, temperatures in the clearer skies, typically 9—ii celsius. some more blustery showers in northern scotland, then towards the southwest, this cloud never really clears away. it comes back into the southwest of england and south wales — pushing eastwards towards the midlands and south east england.

that will bring a bit of light rain and drizzle. further north, some brighter skies, some sunshine and some showers. those showers turning more widespread in scotland and northern ireland, pushing into the far north of england. disappointing temperatures, 17—18 celsius, fairly typically, could make 20 in the southeast ahead of any rain that arrives during the evening. as we head into the weekend, high—pressure is close by, but it's towards the southwest of the uk. it leaves us with a run of northwesterly winds. that's going to drive in cooler air, and temperatures on saturday could be even lower during the day as well — it will be a chilly start to the day too. so, a cool weekend ahead. there will be this mixture of sunshine and showers continuing. as we look ahead to saturday, most of the showers will be in the north and west of the uk. quite a few showers, actually, across northern scotland, quite a few showers for northern ireland. those will stream over the irish sea into northwestern parts of england and wales. so, for the south and the east, it should be largely dry, some sunshine at times, those temperatures could be even lower, making 11! celsius at best through the central belt of scotland — 18 in the south of england. some more showers continuing

overnight and into sunday. should be a drier day though for northern ireland, a drier day for scotland. most of the showers across england and wales, some of those could be heavy as well. temperatures will be pegged back in those showers, but probably a degree or two higher than saturday across scotland and northern ireland, but still only making 16 celsius. those showers do move away during the evening as we head into the early part of next week. we've got lower pressure to the north of the uk, some weather fronts on the scene, higher pressure into more southern areas. so, that means for the first few days of next week, it's going to remain unsettled for northern areas. there will be some stronger winds, some rain from time to time. further south, it should be largely dry and warmer — temperatures into the mid—20s.

this is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. i'm rich preston. one month after the blast that claimed so many lives, rescuers in beirut think somebody may still be alive under the rubble of this building. joe biden visits kenosha, where he spoke by phone to jacob blake, whose shooting by police triggered days of unrest. south korea imposes a near—lockdown on its capital. why experts suspect some of the country's churches may have worsened the latest coronavirus outbreak. the literary race begins — we look at how the pandemic made it a tougher competition to become a christmas best seller.