a large migrant camp on the greek island of lesbos is being evacuated because a majorfire has broken out at the facility. latest footage from the scene appears to show flames inside and outside the moria centre, which is home to nearly 13,000 people, around four times its official capacity. the cause is not yet clear. the entire senior police leadership for the city of rochester in new york state has resigned in the aftermath of the death of a black man in custody. they've been under intense scrutiny since news of the death of daniel prude became public last week, sparking protests. it's reported that one of the leading opposition figures in belarus — maria kolesnikova — has prevented officials deporting her to neighbouring ukraine by ripping up her passport, on the border, and throwing it out the window of an official car. colleagues say she then jumped out the back of the car.

now on bbc news — hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm at stephen sackur. uk prime minister borisjohnson stephen sackur. uk prime minister boris johnson faces momentous challenges. the coronavirus pandemic and economic slump and a looming moment of truth for britain's relations with the eu. and in the midst of this turbulence the midst of this turbulence the future of the united kingdom itself looks uncertain. polls suggest increasing numbers of scots want out of the union. my guest is the new leader of the scottish conservative party, douglas ross. 0ur events playing into the hands of the scottish

nationalists? douglas ross, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. do you think your party leader and the prime minister, boris johnson, fully appreciates the depth of discontent with him that currently exists in scotland? i think personalities are always going to prove to be popular or otherwise, whether you are a uk party leader, a scottish leader, and understand people's concerns about opinion polls which suggest his favourability ratings are not as high as other politicians in scotland... let us be clear about that. it is interesting. you have read the pollsjust like me. he has an approval rating of —50. nicola sturgeon

—— nicola sturgeon, the leader of the scottish government, has a rating of plus 50. couldn't be more stark. these ratings go up be more stark. these ratings go up and down as quickly as they come about. it is important to remember we have two governments in scotland and the prime minister is the leader of the uk government and i think it is important we continue to show what scotland's two governments can do together. sure, but you are a politician andi sure, but you are a politician and i wonder if it was wise for you, when you won the leadership of the scottish conservative party, frankly you are the only candidate, so it wasn't much of an issue, but you said in the wake of your appointment" i will be a boris backing brags that positive anti— nationalist leader was good. that doesn't seem very advantageous territory. good. that doesn't seem very advantageous territoryli didn't actually say that. they don't want to get one of your researchers in trouble. that was one of my supporters, who said that. those are not my words. that is interesting. so you are not going to be boris backing? exactly. i have said during the course of my leadership campaign and since i

became leader i will work with the prime minister when i think is the best interests scotland. but also a resigned from his government a number of months ago so i will also stand up to the minister if i think it is not in the best interests of scotland. you certainly did resign your posting government over a particular issue. since then you have made a point of stressing our relationship your —— relationship is with boris johnson. you have entertained him twice on visits to scotland since then. and you have talked about how you and he can work together. so give me an example of what you have actually stood up of what you have actually stood up to boris johnson of what you have actually stood up to borisjohnson the last few weeks and months.” up to borisjohnson the last few weeks and months. i do thing resigning from government is... thing resigning from government is. . . crosstalk thing resigning from government is... crosstalk it is quite a strong element of standing up to the prime minister. i'm also not going to manufacture grievance which we see in and out from —— day in and day out from the snp and hollywood. they don't think people want that in scotland. they want their governments to a together. where there are elements we disagree i will stand up and say that publicly. where there are areas we agree oni where there are areas we agree

on i will stand up. you will be very independent minded as the leader of the scottish tourist was not let us test that premise right now. we are today, are in the midst of a real difficult legal situation for the government because they appear intent on rolling back on the withdrawal agreement that they signed and was voted into law in the uk parliament, the withdrawal agreement with the withdrawal agreement with the eu leaders on britain's exit from the eu. the message from government today is that they want to modify that agreement, without any support oi’ agreement, without any support or against the wishes of the european union. do you support the government decision? what i absolutely supporters we continue to work with the joint council between the european union and the united kingdom to resolve these matters. but i think it is the act of a responsible government to look at the alternatives and if that joint council between the eu and the uk can't come up with the answers to these very specific areas and i think the government has to look at how they have a safety net and that is exactly what has been outlined by the government over

the last couple of days. well, what we know is the government is prepared to break international law, that is the agreement signed with the european union in its determination to modify the trade relationship between the uk, the great british mainland, northern ireland. we know that is going to represent a break with international law because government minister brandon lewis admitted as much in the house of commons. are you again co mforta ble house of commons. are you again comfortable with your government, a scottish conservative leader, as you well, supporting a conservative government which says it is going to break international law? i think, as going to break international law? ithink, as you going to break international law? i think, as you know, the northern ireland secretary said it is in very specific and limited areas that we hope the joint council can result before we get to that stage, but it is important for businesses in northern ireland that we have these agreements, you know, accepted before we get to the sist accepted before we get to the 31st of december to ensure that the belfast agreement and the

provisions within that and the northern ireland protocol are followed and protect people, individuals and businesses in northern ireland. as you know, the former prime minister, theresa may, has just the former prime minister, theresa may, hasjust said, again, in the last few hours, that she thinks this is horrifying. she said "the uk government is now seeking to change the operation of the withdrawal agreement". she suggested that this goes ahead the british government's credibility on the international stage will be shot popular and that is a big if there. because clearly, as i have said repeatedly, this is a safety net. we don't want to have to go down this route if the eu joint uk council can resolve these issues. so you, douglas ross, telling me at the beginning of this interview, that where you think boris johnson is wrong you will stand up johnson is wrong you will stand up to him, what does that mean in this? you don't think boris johnson is wrong in this case? i think this is the last opportunity for the uk government to have the safety net. the internal market legislation that will be laid

before parliament tomorrow and the finance below the final two pieces of legislation that the government can take through in time for leaving the transition period on the 31st of december and that is why it is right that we use these final two pieces of legislation to create that safety net... crosstalk. what they don't want his irresponsible behaviour that sees us come irresponsible behaviour that sees us come to the 31st of december, the negotiations not complete, and therefore these issues would be live from the sist issues would be live from the 31st of january —— the first of january. i think is responsible and acceptable we look to all opportunities to resolve these but have the safety net there as well. don't you recognise that the people of scotland and perhaps the people of the uk to will see something of alice in wonderland in the situation. borisjohnson wonderland in the situation. boris johnson and his wonderland in the situation. borisjohnson and his team feared to be residing from a deal which they signed and they hailed as a trial but now they are saying that it is unworkable and even if it brea ks unworkable and even if it breaks international wall —— law. it was also agreed these areas would have to be resolved. it was the whole purpose of setting up the

council. the top british public servant the setting up these affairs has just resigned because he has grave misgivings about what this would mean for the british government and adherence to international law. he is the civil servant most directly responsible for ensuring the british government operates within the law. he has just felt the need to resign. operates within the law. he has just felt the need to resignlj can't comment on that because they don't know the full reasons of his resignation. i haven't seen why he has resigned and what he has said. i have seen comment from others who have speculated. but until we hear from the former civil servant then we have got to be cautious about what we try to connect with his actions and what has been said or otherwise. for a man who can -- reclaims his independent minded determination to stand up to borisjohnson, you determination to stand up to boris johnson, you don't determination to stand up to borisjohnson, you don't appear to be following through. you are asking me on one very specific issue. it is absolutely important. the uk internal market bill is very important to the 535,000

employees in scotland who rely on business and trade being able to freely continue with our partners in each part of the united kingdom. that's why i think it is right that the focus on the bill is on the jobsit focus on the bill is on the jobs it protects and can create in the economy and the economic recovery we can get from this legislation and others were scotla nd legislation and others were scotland because we are lagging behind other parts of the uk. the bigger picture about this, was particularly concerned northern ireland trading relationship between the mainland, northern ireland, and the open border with the republic of ireland, that is one particular very knotty issue, the bigger picture is the borisjohnson issue, the bigger picture is the boris johnson government, which appears increasingly to feel that a no—deal trade agreement or non— agreement with the eu is going to be the outcome december 31. hang on, borisjohnson said that that, thatis borisjohnson said that that, that is a no—deal and to the transition, would "be a good outcome for the uk and that the country would prosper mightily in those circumstances". again,

due, douglas ross, independent minded douglas ross, agree with borisjohnson? minded douglas ross, agree with boris johnson? i agree with the prime minister when he said he was to get a deal... no, i'm not asking you. with the deal bea not asking you. with the deal be a good outcome for the uk? there are certainly opportunities as we are able to trade freely as an independent nation and we can ensure that trade deals are good for scotla nd trade deals are good for scotland and the whole of the uk... would it be a good outcome for the uk? i'm saying, all the efforts of the uk government continue rightly to be on getting a deal, the prime minister is absolutely correct to say unless we can reach that by the european council on 0ctober by the european council on october 15 then we have to prepare for all eventualities. and if we leave without a deal then there are opportunities for scotland and the rest of the united kingdom, for example in the fishing industry we can free ourselves from the heated common fisheries policy which has dragged down that industry for the last 15 years. you look forward to telling the scottish fishermen that in a no—deal post transition their fish will have huge tariffs based upon them as they enter the european market? european market which

they sell into, the preponderance of their fish goes into the european market and will suddenly have massive taxes placed upon it. you look forward to telling them that?|j forward to telling them that?” am looking forward to saying to these fishermen who have to listen so was elected in 2017, since they voted to leave the european union in 2016 because they wanted free from the heated common fisheries policy, and by leaving the transition period on the 31st of december and becoming an independent coastal state from january one we can fulfil the ambitions and the opportunity that many fishermen are scotland and other parts of the uk are looking forward to. 6296 of scots voted to remain in the european union. ironically, you we re european union. ironically, you were one of them. it seems to me you are now exposing yourself to great political risk with your loyalty to boris johnson on this issue of what nextin johnson on this issue of what next in relation to the eu. let me quote you a leading snp politician, kirsten 0swald, she said "no deal will be a disaster for scotland and the

scottish tories are failing to stand up for scotland. douglas ross has proved himself to be nothing more than the prime minister's loyal poodle." well, because they that about every single snp politician who despite saying they were set up for our fishing despite saying they were set up for ourfishing industry despite saying they were set up for our fishing industry in scotla nd for our fishing industry in scotland voted against the bill at second reading last week. that is not standing up for an industry that is totemic and... crosstalk. it is about every single business in scotland which, in a nodal situation, will face a very different marketplace in europe. yes. there is an important comparison to make there. if i am somehow supposed to be answerable to the prime minister, these snp politicians, whether here, westminster, or holyrood do exactly what nicola sturgeon says. the figures you crowed —— quote for scotland on the referendum are absolutely correct. that also tells us over1 million scots voted to leave the european union. i've voted referendum knowing that

the united kingdom's vote would be to either leave or remain, it wasn't a separate franchise for scotland. not to get to local, but my local constituency came closer to any other in the country to vote to leave european union. just 122 votes separated leave and remain. so murray, where our represent, one in every two people due to deliver european union. how has scottish opinion evolved then on the question?” think people now accept that with a majority here in london, in the uk parliament of 80 mps that they know that brexit is going to happen and they want to see it done as efficiently and effectively as possible. crosstalk. are you serious? do not take the temperature of your own country? look at the performance of the snp. 0ne opinion poll makes no difference. but a slew of opinion polls, month after month after month, the snp commanding sa, 50 5% of the vote. euro party, and it has to be said since you took over, as it increased its share of the

vote... crosstalk. have you seen and opinion polls asi have you seen and opinion polls as i became leader? that is a big accusation you are making that my party has stalled a gunned down. so if you can quote the opinion poll that has been held in the last month and i became letter that would be interesting. i'm asking about the last poll that was issued which had the tories that 20%, a substantial reduction on the last general election performance. before i became leader. i am asking you, if you take the temperature of your own country, how you think your own country, how you think you can tell me that the scottish people have come to terms with brexit and are ready to accept? no, i'm not saying that and there are many viewers who will never accept it but there are many that will accept that that is democratic... . crosstalk you are a democrat. that was elected in december last year and what scots are troubled and puzzled with is the s&p policy to save from westminster and give it back to

the european union —— snp. talking about independence in your approach to work, you appear to be thanked to the scottish people that the question about independence is nothing but a distraction and a diversion? in oh, yes, and it comes from opinion polls because when people from scotla nd because when people from scotland are asked to rank their priorities, independence comes seventh and eighth. you are obviously a democratically elected politician and when you say that crosstalk continuing to focus on independence represents nothing but the grievance culture that they dominate politics —— snp, do not think that is patronising and demeaning? no i don't think so. if you speak to many people in scotland on both sides of the argument, i accept the of the argument, i accept the of the 2014 referendum has still not healed and we are more polarised than ever before.

maybe that is because people like you call it nothing but a greedy and culture, how is that building bridges to the 54% of people according to the latest polls are actually now support an independent scotland and you're just saying they are pa rt you're just saying they are part of a grievance culture?” can say that when i say nationalist and independent supporters of the border between england and scotland holding up banners telling english people to f off and they are not welcome in scotla nd they are not welcome in scotland and it's something i absolutely condemn. 2496 in the national polling, latest national polling, latest national polling, latest national polling support an independent scotland. but a low proportion of scotland supporting that being the key emphasis of the next election campaign and the next five yea rs campaign and the next five years scottish parliament. we will see, won't we, because in 2017, the snp went to the people in a uk general election saying they will push for another general election because circumstances and fundamentally changed because of brexit. they did the same

thing in 2019, and won thumping majorities in both times and in may next year there will be an election for the scottish parliament. while the polling suggest they will win a number thumping majority there. if they do, would you then accept that they have a legitimate democratic mandate to get their second referendum ? democratic mandate to get their second referendum?” democratic mandate to get their second referendum? ijust don't accept the hypothetical questions based on what may happen in eight months time and all that does explain to the narrative of the snp to make the whole conversation is about separation and what they would do if they ever got their way and scotland became independent. there is a lot of focus on there and there is a lot of proposals for an independent scotland that does not scott — i stuck up but people do not want us to discuss this, they want us to discuss this, they want us to discuss how after 13 years education is such a poor state after the snp has been in power and building hospitals in scotla nd and building hospitals in scotland that cannot accept patients, and about the

economic recovery and how our economic recovery and how our economic recovery and how our economic recovery is lower than in the uk and these are issues that people want us to focus on that people want us to focus on that and that is why we are focusing on that. you have put forward your own plans about infrastructure and investment and the party suggest that if the uk pushes ahead with its own internal market reforms for the united kingdom, many of your proposals would be impossible to deliver.” your proposals would be impossible to deliver. i think they have problems with a few of the proposals but two former scottish advisers said this is exactly what the snp should be focusing on so even snp supporters who previously worked for government say that this scottish conservative leader other ones coming up with economies —— word for the country to get forward and prosper following the global pandemic. politics is about policies and about personalities. we have touched upon boris johnson and personalities. we have touched upon borisjohnson and his impact on scotland already but people across the united

kingdom, particularly in scotland, they have judged kingdom, particularly in scotland, they havejudged him on his handling of crises but particularly over the coronavirus pandemic and again according to polling, they have judged him pretty negatively, how would you say borisjohnson and his government have handled the covid—19 crisis? and his government have handled the covid-19 crisis? boris johnson and his government have made mistakes during the coronavirus pandemic, so has nicola sturgeon and her government in every government around the world. we are dealing with a virus nobody knew about a couple of hundred days ago and clearly there will be mistakes and it's important to learn from those. which is why i think it's crucial in scotla nd why i think it's crucial in scotland that we find out when nicola sturgeon and her government knew they were sending patients with positive covid—19 test out of the hospital into care homes, these are the issues people want us to be focusing on, asking questions, scrutinising, to ensure that if we have a second wave, which is looking likely, we do not make the same mistakes. the people of scotla nd mistakes. the people of scotland have suffered just as the people in the uk have but

interestingly, people of scotla nd interestingly, people of scotland going back to surveys conducted over weeks and months, largely approved on nicola sturgeon ‘s handling of the crisis and they largely disapprove of boris johnson the crisis and they largely disapprove of borisjohnson and his government at national level. that tells you something, doesn't it? there has definitely been a perception that the message has been delivered better in scotla nd been delivered better in scotland but when you look at the detail, actually what has been the response to the covid—19 pandemic in scotland has been similar to many parts of the uk. but the problem for you, douglas ross, is that you personally clearly feel that borisjohnson is exercising very poorjudgement in the middle of this crisis because you chose to resign over the actions of his chief adviser, dominic cummings, he took a journey to the north of england during lockdown and you clearly felt that was unacceptable, absolutely unacceptable, and he resigned over it but your ultimate boss in the

conservative party, boris johnson, chose to retain dominic cummings and offers so imagine you feel borisjohnson exercise extremely poor judgement. i have said i can only resign from my office, i can't tell someone to get sacked or take any other measures that i had to look at myself and what i believed and look at all the evidence in front of me and i did not rush into making a decision like that. it was a big decision for me to resign from my first ministerial office but i took it for what i thought was the right reasons a month later i still believe they word the right reasons. again, as you douglas ross stood up for what is right, you still believe borisjohnson should have is right, you still believe boris johnson should have fired dominic cummings? i made it very clear i could not defend the actions of dominic cummings, particularly a drive to test his eyesight. but the quy to test his eyesight. but the guy still who is chief adviser to the prime minister, you don't believe he should still be in hisjob but you also must believe, unless i'm missing

something, that boris johnson failed by failing to fire him? and it was a decision for him to take, i could only take the decision for me, which was either to remain in government and support the actions of dominic cummings all leave, and thatis dominic cummings all leave, and that is why i took the decision to resign. where do you think these scottish conservative party ca n these scottish conservative party can go from where it is now? you are at 20% in the polls, you we have just discussed what that means. but what it surely means is that you have no prospect of exercising any sort of power in scotla nd exercising any sort of power in scotland and you perhaps need to think about whether you want to think about whether you want to be more the conservative in scotland, he works at the reality of a country which appears intent on having another referendum on independence, or whether you are independence, or whether you a re loyalty independence, or whether you are loyalty to london — — or whether your loyalty to london will trump all? i know exactly why you are using that phrase but explain to someone from murray, the north of scotland, who has lived in that area your

entire life, that somehow i would be loyal to london as opposed to scotland is ridiculous and i can't accept. iam ridiculous and i can't accept. i am leader of the scottish conservatives and i am passionate but also a compatriot and i can be as part asa compatriot and i can be as part as a scot as i can be as a brick and i want us to see moving that discussions of the division of the past and the discussion that we had about separation and the gold standard referendum that everybody said would expect the result six years ago — at brit. let's look beyond six years and beyond the wrangling between governments and look at what we can do for my son, 18 months old, i want to see his education as i was in murray 20 odd years ago. i want to ensure we have the nhs that is capable to respond outstandingly to the covid—19 pandemic and beyond. i wa nt to covid—19 pandemic and beyond. i want to ensure we have a justice system that stands up for victims and i want to ensure we have the economic

plans to recover scotland doesn't come out of the pandemic. these are all plans i ambitious for and when you listen to people around scotland, they want to hear the alternative messages. douglas ross, we have to enter there, thank you very much for being on hardtalk. thank you. hello. it'll be a fairly mild start to wednesday across most parts of the british isles but some of you will have to wait before we get skies like that, particularly in england and wales where you are close by this weather front, won't have an awful lot of rain on it but there will be a fair amount of cloud. that takes the time to pull its way a little bit further towards the south. from the word go, scotland and northern ireland and the far north of england

drier and brighter perhaps, some showers is coming through on a breeze. elsewhere, we're in for a pretty dry day. eventually, we break up the cloud in the south and the rain really dies away. while the humid is still across the south—eastern quarter, elsewhere, temperatures mid—teens to about 20 degrees. through the evening, we drag the last of that cloud away towards the near continent, and it's that time of the year where the nights are a wee bit longer and the skies are clear. somewhere on the eastern side of both scotland and england it'll get down to 3 or 4 degrees. a cool start to thursday, but it's shaping up to be a decent day for many parts of the british isles, certainly to start with a ridge of high pressure just nosing in from the atlantic. but no disguising the fact that a little bit further to the north and west, and closing on the northwest of the british isles, eventually there will be enough cloud to rob you of your sunshine in northern ireland, maybe a passing shower, and more on the way of wet weather into the northern and north—western parts of scotland. and the temperatures are not

just as high after that chilly start as they will have been in the first part of the week. that weather front gradually works its way in across the northern part of the british isles in the first part of friday, and then staggers its way a wee bit further south, weakening all the while but before it does that, it will deliver a good bit of rain into scotland and northern ireland and eventually it gets across the border. so further south, a dry enough day, a top temperature of about 20, 21, things turning a wee bit more showery and breezy across the north—west of scotland to finish out the day. that is the way you start the weekend in that neck of the woods. notice the number of isobars. so really quite windy through the north and western isles, the north of scotland too. high pressure trying to dominate many areas but it doesn't keep the fronts at bay from the north and west of scotland, hence the forecast for 0ban, but elsewhere, a lot of dry and fine weather with some sunshine.

this is bbc news, with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. i'm sally bundock. a large migrant camp on the greek island of lesbos is being evacuated after fire broke out at the facility. the entire senior police leadership for a city in new york state resigns over the death of a black man in custody. as fears rise of another global spike in covid cases, the uk announces it will ban gatherings of more than six people. a major trial of a coronavirus vaccine is put on hold because of a suspected serious adverse reaction in a volunteer in the uk. and, beneath the surface, new research casts light on why