of lesbos a day after a huge blaze devastated the moria migrant camp, europe's largest refugee camp. international efforts are under way to help the greek government cope, and a state of emergency has been declared. the speaker of the us house of representatives, nancy pelosi, has warned london there will be "absolutely no chance" of a us—uk trade deal if boris johnson overrides the brexit deal with brussels. mrjohnson wants to overturn parts of the brexit deal he negotiated with the eu. donald trump has been accused of deliberately misleading the american people about the gravity of the coronavirus pandemic. the claims come in a new book by the the legendary washington postjournalist bob woodward. now on bbc news, it's

time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. uk prime minister borisjohnson faces momentous challenges. the coronavirus pandemic, an economic slump and a looming moment of truth for britain's relations with the eu. and, in the midst of this turbulence, the future of the united kingdom itself looks uncertain. polls suggest increasing numbers of scots want out of the union. my guest is the new leader of the scottish conservative party, douglas ross. are events playing into the hands of the scottish nationalists?

douglas ross, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. do you think your party leader and the prime minister, borisjohnson, fully appreciates the depth of discontent with him that currently exists in scotland? i think personalities are always going to prove to be popular or otherwise, whether you are a uk party leader, a scottish party leader, and i understand people's concerns about opinion polls which suggest his favourability ratings are not as high as other politicians in scotland... let us be clear about that. it is interesting. you have read the polls, just like me. he has an approval rating of —50. nicola sturgeon, the leader of the scottish government, she has an approval rating of plus 50. couldn't be more stark.

these ratings go up and down as quickly as they come about. it is important to remember we have two remember we have two governments in scotland and the prime minister is the leader of the uk government, and i think it is important we continue to show what scotland's two governments can do together. sure, but you are a politician and i wonder if it was wise for you, when you won the leadership of the scottish conservative party, frankly, you are the only candidate, so it wasn't much of an issue, but you said in the wake of your appointment, "i will be a boris—backing brexit—positive anti—nationalist leader." that doesn't seem very advantageous territory? i didn't actually say that. i don't want to get one of your researchers in trouble. that was one of my supporters, msp michelle balla ntine, who had said that. those are not my words. that is interesting. so, let's clear this up. so you are not going to be boris—backing? well, exactly. i have said during the course of my leadership campaign and since i became leader, i will work with the prime minister when i think it's the best interest of scotland,

but also, i resigned from his government a number of months ago, so i will also stand up to the prime minister if i think something he's doing it is not in the best interests of scotland. you certainly did resign from your post in government over a particular issue, and we'll get to that later, but since then, you have made a point of stressing how friendly your relationship is with borisjohnson. you have entertained him twice on visits to scotland since then and you have talked about how you and he can work together. so, give me an example of what you have actually stood up to borisjohnson the last few weeks and months. well, i do think resigning from government is... crosstalk. no, i'm talking about... it is quite a strong element of standing up to the prime minister. but what i've also said is i'm also not going to manufacture grievance which we see in and out from the snp and holyrood. and they look to westminster and pick a fight at every opportunity. i don't think people want that in scotland. they want their governments to a together. to work together. where there are areas we disagree, i will stand up and say that publicly. where there are areas we agree

on, then i think it's right we work together. so, you are staking out this territory as being very independent—minded as the leader of the scottish tories, so let's test that premise right now. we, today, are in the midst of a real difficult political situation with government because they appear intent on rolling back on the withdrawal agreement that they signed and was voted into law in the uk parliament, the withdrawal agreement with the eu leaders, on britain's exit from the eu. the message from government today is that they want to modify that agreement, without any support or against the wishes of the european union. do you support the government decision? what i absolutely support is we continue to work with the joint council between the european union and the united kingdom to resolve these matters. but i think it is the act of a responsible government to look at the alternatives and if thatjoint council between the eu and the uk can't come up with the answers to these very specific areas, then i think the government has to look at how they have a safety net, and that is exactly what has been outlined by the government over the last couple of days. well, what we know is the government is prepared to break

international law, that is the agreement signed with the european union in its determination to modify the trade relationship between the uk, the great british mainland, and northern ireland. we know that is going to represent a break with international law because government minister brandon lewis admitted as much in the house of commons. are you again comfortable with your government, a scottish conservative leader, as you are, supporting a conservative government which says it is going to break international law? i think, as you know, the northern ireland secretary said it is in very specific and limited areas that we hope the joint council can resolve before we get to that stage, but it is important for businesses in northern ireland that we have these agreements, you know, accepted before we get to the 31st of december to ensure that the agreement and the provisions within that and ireland protocol are followed

and protect people, individuals and businesses in northern ireland. as you know, the former prime minister, theresa may, has just said again in the last few hours, that she thinks this is horrifying. she said: "the uk government is now seeking to change the operation of the withdrawal agreement". she suggested that if this goes ahead, the british government's credibility on the international stage will be shot. and that is a big if there because, clearly, as i have said repeatedly, this is a safety net. we don't want to have to go down this route if the eu joint uk council can resolve these issues. so you, douglas ross, telling me at the beginning of this interview, that where you think boris johnson is wrong, you will stand up to him. what does that mean in this? you don't think borisjohnson is wrong in this case? i think this is the last opportunity for the uk government to have the safety net. the uk internal market legislation that will be laid before parliament tomorrow and the finance bill are the final two pieces of legislation that the government can take through in time

for leaving the transition period on the 31st of december, and that is why it is right that we use these final two pieces of legislation to create that safety net... crosstalk. but don't you recognise... what i don't want his irresponsible behaviour that sees us come to the 31st of december, the negotiations are not complete, and therefore these issues would be live from the ist of january. i think it's responsible and acceptable that we look to all opportunities to resolve these, but have the safety net there as well. don't you recognise that the people of scotland and perhaps the people of the uk too will see something of alice in wonderland in the situation? borisjohnson and his team appear to be resiling from a deal which they signed and they hailed as a triumph, and now they are saying that it is unworkable and we have to modify it, even if it breaks international law. it was also agreed in the withdrawal agreement that these areas would have to be resolved. that was the whole purpose of setting up the joint eu—uk council. the top british public servant responsible for legal affairs has just resigned

because he had grave misgivings about what this would mean for the british government and adherence to international law. he is the civil servant most directly responsible for ensuring the british government operates within the law. he has just felt the need to resign. i can't comment on that because they don't because they don't know the full reasons of his resignation. i haven't seen why he has resigned and what he has said. i have seen comment from others who have speculated. but until we hear from the former civil servant we have got to be cautious about what we try to connect with his actions and what has been said or otherwise. for a man who proclaims his independent—minded determination to stand up to borisjohnson, you don't appear to be following through. you are asking me on one very specific issue. but it's important. it is absolutely important. the uk internal market bill is very important to scottish businesses, to the 535,000 employees in scotland who rely on business and trade being able to freely continue with our partners in each part

of the united kingdom. that's why i think it is right that the focus on the uk internal market bill is on the jobs it protects and jobs it can create in the economy and the economic recovery we can get from this legislation and others for scotland because we are lagging behind other parts of the uk. the bigger picture about this, which particularly concerns parts of northern ireland trading relationship between the mainland, northern ireland, and the open border with the republic of ireland, that is one particular very knotty issue, but the bigger picture is the borisjohnson government, which appears increasingly to feel that a no—deal trade agreement or non—agreement with the eu is going to be the outcome december 31. hang on, borisjohnson said that, that is a no—deal end to the transition, would: "be a good outcome for the uk and that the country would prosper mightily in those circumstances". again, do you, douglas ross, independent—minded douglas ross, agree with borisjohnson? i agree with the prime minister when he said

he was to get a deal... no, i'm not asking you. would a no deal be a good outcome for the uk? there are certainly opportunities as we are able to trade freely as an independent nation and we can ensure that trade deals are good for scotland and the whole of the uk... would it be a good outcome for the uk? i'm saying, all the efforts of the uk government continue rightly to be on getting a deal, but the prime minister is absolutely correct to say unless we can reach that by the european council on 0ctober15, then we have to prepare for all eventualities, and if we leave without a deal then there are opportunities for scotland and the rest of the united kingdom, for example, in the fishing industry, where we can free ourselves from the heated common fisheries policy which has dragged down that industry for the last 15 years. you look forward to telling the scottish fishermen that in a no—deal post—transition their fish will have huge tariffs placed upon them as they enter the european market? the european market which they sell into, the preponderance of their fish goes into the european market,

and will suddenly have massive taxes placed upon it. you look forward to telling them that? i am looking forward to saying to these fishermen, who have been saying to me repeatedly since i was elected in 2017, is they voted to leave the european union in 2016 because they wanted free from the heated common fisheries policy, and by leaving the transition period on the 31st of december and becoming an independent coastal state from january 1, we can fulfil the ambitions and the opportunity that many fishermen are scotland and other parts of the uk are looking forward to. 62% of scots voted to remain in the european union. ironically, you were one of them. it seems to me you are now exposing yourself to grave political risk with your loyalty to boris johnson on this issue of what next in relation to the eu. let me quote you a leading snp politician, scottish nationalist politician kirsten oswald, she said: "no deal will be a disaster for scotland and the scottish tories," led by you, "are failing to stand up for scotland.

douglas ross has proved himself to be nothing more than the prime minister's loyal poodle." well, i could say that about every single snp politician who, despite saying they would stand up for our fishing industry in scotland, voted against the bill at second reading last week. that is not standing up for an industry that is totemic and hugely important... crosstalk. it is about every single business in scotland which, in a no deal situation, will face a very different marketplace in europe. yes, but there is an important comparison to make there. if i am somehow supposed to be answerable to the prime minister, these snp politicians, whether here, westminster, or holyrood do exactly what nicola sturgeon says. just on the eu referendum, the figures you quote for scotland on the referendum are absolutely correct. but that also tells us over 1 million scots voted to leave the european union. i've voted in that referendum knowing that the united kingdom's vote would be to either leave or remain, it wasn't a separate franchise for scotland.

not to get too local, but my local constituency came closer to any other in the country to vote to leave european union. just 122 votes separated leave and remain. so in murray, where i represent, one in every two people due to deliver european union. what, do you think, has scottish opinion done? how has scottish opinion evolved since then on the europe question? i think people now accept that with a majority here in london, in the uk parliament of 80 mps that they know that brexit is going to happen and they want to see it done as efficiently and effectively as possible. crosstalk. are you serious? do not take the temperature of your own country? yes, i do. look at the performance of the snp. 0ne opinion poll makes no difference. but a slew of opinion polls, month after month after month, the snp commanding 5a, 55% of the vote. your own party, and it has to be said, since you took over, hasn't increased its share of the vote... crosstalk. have you seen an opinion poll since i became leader? ..down about 20%.

that is a big accusation you are making that my party has stalled or gone down. so if you can quote the opinion poll that has been held in the last month since i became leader that would be interesting because it's not been done. no, i'm asking about the last poll that was issued which had the tories at 20%, a substantial reduction on their last general election performance. before i became leader. so, i am asking you, if you take the temperature of your own country, how you think you can tell me that the scottish people have come to terms with brexit and are ready to accept? no, i'm not saying that and there are many viewers who will never accept brexit but there are many that will accept that that is democratic will of the uk parliament... crosstalk. you are a democrat. ..that was elected in december last year on a mandate to leave the european union. what scots are troubled and puzzled with is the snp policy which is to separate from westminster but to give all these powers back to the european union. let's talk about independence and your approach to it. you appear to be saying

to the scottish people that the question about independence is nothing but a distraction and a diversion? is that your real opinion? yes, and it comes from opinion polls because when people from scotland are asked to rank their priorities ahead of next may's scottish elections independence comes seventh, eighth or ninth in their list of priorities. you are obviously a democratically elected politician. when you say that the snp continuing to focus on independence represents nothing but the grievance culture that so dominates their politics do you not think that is a little bit patronising and demeaning? no, i don't think so. if you speak to many people in scotland on both sides of the argument, i would accept, the divisions of the 2014 referendum have still not healed and politics is more polarised than ever before. maybe that is because people like you call it nothing but a sign of grievance and culture.

how is that building bridges to the nationalists, to the 54% of people, according to the latest panel—based poll, that now actually support an independent scotland and you're just saying they are part of a grievance culture? i can see that when i see a nationalist and independent supporter at the border between england and scotland holding up banners telling english people to "f off" and they are not welcome in scotland and it's something i absolutely condemn and think is totally irresponsible. 54% in the national polling, national polling, supporting an independent scotland. but also, a very low proportion of scotland supporting that being the key emphasis of the next election campaign and the next five—year scottish parliament. we will see, won't we, because in 2017, the snp went to the people in a uk general election, saying they would push for another general referendum because circumstances had fundamentally changed because of brexit. they did the same thing in 2019, and won thumping majorities both times and in may next year

there will be an election for the scottish parliament. all the polls suggest they will win another thumping majority there. if they do, would you then accept that they have a legitimate democratic mandate to get their second referendum? ijust don't accept the hypothetical questions based on what may happen in eight months‘ time and all that does is play into the snp's narrative to make the whole conversation is about separation and what they would do if they ever got their way and scotland became an independent country. i think there is a lot to focus on there and there is a lot of proposals for an independent scotland that do not stack up but people do not want us to discuss this, they want us to discuss how, after 13 years, education is in such a poor state in scotland after the snp has been in powerfor 13 years, why they snp are building hospitals in scotland that cannot accept any patients, why our economic recovery after a global pandemic and the recession we're currently in is slower in scotland than in other parts of the uk. these are issues that people want us to focus

on and that is why we are focusing on that. you have put forward your own economic plan about infrastructure and big, ambitious plans for investment. the scottish national party and the party suggest that if the uk pushes ahead with its own internal market reforms for the united kingdom, many of your proposals would be impossible to deliver. no, i think they have raised quiddies over one of the proposals, but what i thought was extremely encouraging was two former snp scottish government advisers who took what i was saying in my power up scotland document and said this is exactly what the snp should be focusing on. so even snp supporters who previously worked for them in government are saying that the scottish conservatives are the ones coming up with the ideas to take the economy forward and get betterjobs back in scotland to ensure we can prosper following this global pandemic. politics is about policies and about personalities. we have touched upon borisjohnson and his impact in scotland already, but people across the united kingdom, particularly in scotland, they havejudged him on his handling of crises

but particularly over the coronavirus pandemic and again, according to polling, they have judged him pretty negatively. how would you say borisjohnson and his government have handled the covid—19 crisis? boris johnson and his government have made mistakes during the coronavirus pandemic, so has nicola sturgeon and her government and every government around the world. we are dealing with a virus nobody knew about a couple of hundred days ago and clearly there will be mistakes and it's important to learn from those, which is why i think it's crucial in scotland that we find out when nicola sturgeon and her government knew they were sending patients with positive covid—19 tests out of the hospital and into care homes. these are the issues people want us to be focusing on, asking questions, scrutinising, to ensure if we have a second wave, which is looking more and more likely, we do not make the same mistakes in the second wave as we did in the first. sure. the people of scotland have suffered just as people in the uk have but, interestingly, the people of scotland, going back to surveys conducted over weeks and months, largely approve

on nicola sturgeon‘s handling of the crisis and they largely disapprove of boris johnson and his government at national level. now, that tells you something, doesn't it? there has definitely been a perception that the message has been delivered better in scotland but when you look at the detail, actually, what has been the response to the covid pandemic in scotland has been similar to many parts of the uk. but the problem for you, douglas ross, is that you personally, clearly feel that boris johnson has exercised very poor judgement in the middle of this crisis because you chose to resign over the actions of his chief adviser, dominic cummings, who took a journey to the north of england during the middle of lockdown. you clearly felt that was unacceptable, absolutely unacceptable. you resigned over it but your ultimate boss in the conservative party, borisjohnson, chose to retain cummings in office, so i imagine you feel

boris johnson exercised extremely poorjudgement. i have said i could only resign from my office, i couldn't tell someone to get sacked or take any other measures, but i had to look at myself and what i believed and look at all the evidence in front of me. i did not rush into making a decision like that. it was a big decision for me at my age to resign from my first ministerial office but i took then for what i thought were the right reasons and, months later, i still believe they were the right reasons. again, as you are douglas ross, who pledged to the scottish people to stand up for what is right, you believe borisjohnson should have fired dominic cummings, don't you? i made it very clear i could not defend the actions mrcummings took, particularly a drive to test his eyesight. but this isn't any old individual we're talking about. this is the guy still who is still chief adviser to the prime minister. now, you don't believe he should still be in hisjob but you also must believe, unless i'm missing something, that boris johnson failed by failing to fire him? and it was a decision for him

to take, i could only take the decision that was open to me, which was either to remain in government and support the actions of mrcummings, or to leave from government, and that is why i took the decision to resign. where do you think the scottish conservative party can go from where it is now? you are at 20% in the polls, we have just discussed what that means, but what it surely means is that you have no prospect of exercising any sort of power in scotland and you perhaps need to think about whether you want to be more the conservative in scotland, who works with the reality of a country which appears intent on having another referendum on independence, or whether your loyalty to london will trump all? i know exactly why you are using that phrase but to explain to someone from murray, the north of scotland, who has lived in that area my entire life, that somehow i would be loyal to london over scotland, i'm sorry, is ridiculous

and i something that i can't accept. i am the leader of the scottish conservatives. i am passionate about scotland but i'm also a compatriot and i believe that i can be as proud to a scot as i can be a brit and i want us working together with the uk and scottish governments and i want to see us moving the discussion on from the division of the past and the discussion that we had about separation, from the gold standard referendum that everybody said they would respect the result six years ago. let's look to the next six years, beyond the wrangling between governments and actually look to what we can do to improve lives for my young son, 18 months old. i want to see his education being as good as it was in murray, when i was educated, 20 odd years ago. i want to ensure we have the nhs that is capable to continue to respond outstandingly to the covid pandemic, but also beyond that. i want to ensure we have a justice system that stands up for victims. i want to ensure we have the economic plans to recover scotland as we come out of the pandemic. these are all things i am ambitious for and when you

listen to people around scotland, they want to hear the alternative messages. douglas ross, we have to end there. thank you very much for being on hardtalk. thank you. good evening. for many, wednesday was a reasonable day but for some, and this was the scene in st ives around lunchtime, it wasn't just a sparkly as it might have been. that's because there was quite a mild flow coming in from the atlantic, and we had the weather front to thicken up the cloud for there to bea thicken up the cloud for there to be a spot of rain.

thankfully, that front moves away and thursday, after a fairly goals start, it's looking like a half reasonable day. it does turn a wee bit cloudier later, but for many, it's a get out and get on with that sort of day. best of the sunshine perhaps early in the morning through eastern scotland, through eastern and southern parts of england too. northern ireland, rather cloudy for the day, may see a passing shower and the obvious place for the weather changes is part of the north of west and scotland. it is notjust as warm as we've had as late. talked around 19 or 20. through the evening and overnight, the rain just the evening and overnight, the rainjust keeps on coming. not a cold night here, but further south, the skies stay clear, we could be down into single figures. what happens to the front on friday? it's a real player all over the northern half of the british isles. the isobars tightly packed, and an u nfortu nate isobars tightly packed, and an unfortunate mix to say the least. the front staggers

through scotland and northern ireland, and the written minutes of the rain moved to the north of england and wales. further south, it's never a bother. 20 degrees is the high and eventually after that when windy start, things brighton up across scotland and northern ireland. that's not the end of the wet story for northern areas, because the weekend sees not one, but in fact a couple of pulses of wet weather. and at times, there northern ireland and well. the remnants of friday's whether is just a band of cloud pulling down to the south, and much of england and wales in for a dry day on saturday. if you have plans for outdoors, the weather won't get in the way. it will be the case for northern ireland and scotland, where saturday night isa scotland, where saturday night is a really wet one, and come sunday, we are still talking about more rain coming into the western side of scotland, northern ireland. further south, at the stage, things are warming up quite nicely. take

care, bye—bye.

this is bbc news — with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. my name's mike embley. a second fire breaks out in a camp in lesbos, as greek officials blame migrants for the blaze that's left thousands homeless. the us speaker of the house warns britain there'll be no trade deal if the uk undermines the good friday agreement. donald trump is accused of deliberately downplaying the dangers of coronavirus. he says he didn't want to panic the american people. and i don't want people to be frightened, i don't want to create panic as you say. and san francisco glows orange as wildfires reach across the united