tv Global Questions BBC News September 12, 2020 1:30pm-2:01pm BST
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but story. dry with some sunshine, but again in western scotland there could be as much as a 100 millimetres of rain, so from one extreme to another, to the blustery and wet north here to about 25 degrees in london. a brief hot spell on monday and tuesday. temperatures up on monday and tuesday. temperatures up to 20 only in the south—east.
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hello, this is bbc news with shaun ley. the headlines... britain is "on the edge of losing control" of coronavirus. a stark warning from one leading scientist — following a sharp rise in cases in the united kingdom. the first direct talks between afghanistan and the taliban take place in qatar. the afghans say they want to end the war... including men, women, minorities and victims of war, then both sides will be the peace heroes. sir terence conran — the british designer who revolutionised retail and decor — has died aged 88. boris johnson defends his plans to over—ride parts of the brexit withdrawal agreement — saying the eu is looking to "carve up and divide" the uk. and dozens of people are reported missing in a wave of deadly wildfires in the us state of oregon.
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now on bbc news... one month after lebanon's catastrophic explosion in the port of beirut, what next for the country's crisis hit economy and broken political system? hello and welcome to this edition of global questions with me, zeinab badawi. this week we ask if lebanon's political system is broken. the beirut explosion has led to a huge backlash against the country's ruling class who are blamed for decades of corruption and mismanagement. could the anger this time lead to a real change in direction? or will it simply be more of the same? while the human and economic cost of the chemical blast in the port of beirut has been devastating, around 200 people died, 6000 injured, 300,000 laid homeless and there's been
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billions of dollars of damage. well, as always, we are having to bring you our two panelists and our questioners who join us from all around the world via video link. let me tell you who is in the hot seat this week. manal abdel samad is a lebanese politician who resigned as administer of information following the be explosion and she remains in the caretaker cabinet. she believes that change remains elusive and regrets being unable to fulfil the aspiration of the lebanese people. and rana khoury is a political activist and founding member of an independent campaign group that has no political affiliations
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and is led by volunteers. it aims to bring progress on environmental and socio— economical issues in beirut. she has been right in the midst of the street protests in the city. welcome to you both and also to my questioners, a solitary round of applause from me, remember you too can join the conversation, its #bbc global questions. right. let's get right down then to our first question. and it's from the eastern cape in south africa and it's from blessing. blessing, what do you want to ask our two panelists? my question is going to be based on events that took place in lebanon. will the lebanon blast end up being a political game changer? minister? hello, hello everybody. actually, the beirut blast is not only the game changer, the game change started
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from october 17 when we had this revolution in the street. and now the aftermath of this deadly blast the august explosion that rocked the city of beirut is required more than any other time else to reconstruct a better lebanon based on a good government. this good governance should start with the main pillars that are transparency, inclusion and government affectiveness and accountability which is a major, key issue. so that we can meet lebanese aspirations and demands. rana, do you agree that this is a real game changer? because you know, we've been here before, haven't we, with lebanon? we've seen protesters out on the streets but do you sense that there is something different this time? because the explosion comes after the suffering that have been wreaked on lebanon because of covid—19 and all the rest of it? i mean, any common sense in politics but on
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a human level i would say that after such a murderous blast there needs to be a change of the entire system. however what we saw after the blast, we've seen a really very incompetent, murderous political class that didn't change anything in their behaviour. they didn't even go on the street after the blast to help the people there. and what we've seen is a movement by the people of lebanon helping each other in bringing solidarity. i don't think this is a game changer but i think this is a game ender. i think this is the end of this political class. even if it's not technically, because they will do everything they can, and you've seen what they've done to stay on the scene. i think today the trust of the people has been shaken forever. and this is why a lot of them have not even dared to go out on the street because they know the reaction of the people. i think the trust in this
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political class has ended. this has been last shot. we have seen, yes, we've seen other events but usually we see exploitation by the political class, now it's a no—no. it didn't work and they can't exploit it and i'm sure this is the end. i don't how long it will take and i don't how much more we will suffer but is the end of the game. ok, so, minister, i did say you were in the hot seat, do you accept that you are part of the political class who people like rana khoury condemn? i think that it's not about politicians who are corrupt. we have a whole system, the ruling class is represented not only by politicians but also byjudges, by civil servants, by legislatures, bite media institutions. we have a whole system. and not all politicians are good and not all are bad. 0k, sorry, you count yourself clearly amongst the good in the political class.
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0k, well, we will test that proposition perhaps further on with some of our other questions. thank you for the moment, let's go to our next question which comes from new zealand. and, elijah, you're a student married to a lebanese. what is your question? so, my question is, which political system is right for lebanon? how do you introduce a government that includes all religious space with democratic values? so, rana, which political system is right which is an inclusive one? i don't think lebanon is the only country in the world. i'm sure in there a lot of religious phase different ethnicities, different political views. ——faiths. today the only state that can work is a secular state that respects the citizen equally. that respects political views,
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beliefs, where there is rule of law and this is it for me. you need to have a new secular state that observes social justice and respect the beliefs of everyone for some and the nonbelief of everyone. we can't talk about reforms in a system in lebanon today. we are not the only country... we have to stop looking at lebanon as always the battle of the sects. it's not what lebanon is. this system is no longer working. it also a ticking bomb at any moment for violence. just a bit of context here.
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because in 1943 when lebanon became independent, as it were, from french colonial rule, it was given a constitution that gave the countries different religions very doing on various positions in the constitution. and you are saying that that has simply constitutionalised if i can use that word, the sectarianism that has led to the problems that you described. minister, do you agree with that? yes, in this question i agree. because any political system is a good system. as long as it doesn't interfere in the public administration work, nor have any vested or, vested interest ..the problem in our system is deep—rooted corruption, the lack of transparency, lack of accountability, the lack of rule of law. what we need is a civil state that is built on democracy. when i say democracy we say equality, social justice, freedom of opinion and expression. and definitely we need transparency and rule of law. these principles are all mentioned in the
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lebanese constitution. however, it is in the application. unity in agreement on the fact that lebanon needs a new political system that doesn't say the muslim get there as the muslim sunnis get these in the various christian sects get their share of the cake as well. very quickly what do you think on this question that you posed yourself? well, me coming from new zealand, we were rated the least corrupt country in the world. so i wish that also for the lebanese people. but you agree that it should be, they should it should be secular? do you agree with that panelist? of course. religion should never be in government. ok, thanks very much. let's go to beirut, lebanon to a student there. what do you want to know from our two panelists?
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want to ask, what are the possible reforms the possible reforms that are need for lebanon to rise up again? rana khoury. i don't think there is a need for reform i think there is a need for independent government of people that are completely detached from the corrupt system. we need a government that can save us for an economic crisis we are in. this is on short term. but then we need a complete change of the system and a complete change of the political class was up —— because, again, this is not about the people but whenever a government takes its trust whereby the people are outside the parliament asking for the government not to be formed because this is a political government and people being beaten up and incarcerated outside the parliament, so it's a government that is not respected or demanded by the people. then this is part of their political past. we need transition, and independent government that is far from this criminal and also political terminal passed which ——incompetent class, that brought us
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into the lowest state ever. and then we need to move into a new state. into a new state of law, a state that respects people, their freedoms, their opinions and we need a complete elimination of this political class. let's see what the minister says. so bring out the eraser, erase everything, clear the drawing board and go back to the start. minister, do you agree with that? before coming into the government i was talking the same as rana. this is the major reason why i came into the government, to make a difference. what i realised is the government alone is not the whole changemaker. because we have a whole system that needs to be changed. we are talking about the legislature, the judiciary, about different other components of the system. she is right that we have to work on the whole component and this is our role. this is why i resigned, because i couldn't find any reform plan based on our only endeavours in this matter. so if we put hand in hand
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a we can work a lot. and i agree that we have to make a change in the whole system. because if we are, if we do the same thing, same way we get the same result. so we have to change the way we are doing things to get better results or different results. i hope that answers your question. social media, lebanon will only have a future if it becomes a secular, tolerant and multi—cultural lebanon where all religions can live in peace and prosperity so clearly that is something which is very much on the agenda. next we are going to go to mohammed who prefers to be known as mo. mo, you are an iraqi but you join us from austria. what is your question? my question is that because we have seen outside players meddling in my country, the question is, how can you stop
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the power from fighting — —external powers fighting proxy battles in lebanon? we've seen a lot of instability in lebanon forced by outside players. how can you stop that? actually, we have seen conflict that is taking place in the region that affects lebanon and we are part of this big picture and we are definitely affected by any conflict that are taking place in the region. but what we care about more is the interest and the benefit of lebanon first. and we have to work for any patriotic benefit, more than anything else. and this needs the union of everybody in lebanon and the solidarity of all political and nonpolitical parties. 0k. rana khoury?
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definitely, there is a bigger role being played in lebanon being the field of a lot of proxy wars being done and a lot of regional deals, actually international deals define a lot of things happening for some, however, when you have a proxy then have a compliant party as well that is agreeing on being a player. as we said, the political class and we set it as part of the slogan, they are all involved in the murder of the lebanese people. but also in the corruption and the mismanagement. however there is a dominant ruling party today
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in lebanon and it is hezbollah controls most of the public institutions if not all lebanon and the government decides when the needs to be elected or who doing that he or she should be vels up this is the reality of lebanon. besides the fact that law is heavily ——hezbollah is armed in lebanon and this is obviously a frightening issue, they are profoundly incompetent in ruling this country on all other levels. the question is though, we know that hezbollah is backed by iran because it is a shia political party, has limited parliament which is the religion which is extremely well. the question is, how can you stop outside players interfering in lebanon? we can't as people we can't stop outside people interfering. however, we can build a safety net around our own country. and this is why a transitional government and free elections are necessary in lebanon. if you asked me how will i disarm hezbollah, i'm not
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and in favour of war. we've seen that foreign nations also use lebanon for their own benefit. it is a job we have to accomplish on our own. it is a job we have to, it is a very long way to reach that. i don't know what will happen on the international level, we are very firm in our opinion against having armed outside public institutions was that we are also very firm with all our other opinions against foreign powers. with our fight with israel, with the palestinian cause. and i think this is what scared today's political class is that we are rejecting these proxy wars and at the same time we are sticking to the independence of lebanon and the freedom of lebanon. having these two together in a people's revolution is really destabilising for the political class. a quick response on what you've heard our two panelists say? actually, i was expecting from the minister more. but i do completely agree with rana khoury, of course.
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thank you very much, indeed. to singapore, to lawyer venetia. your question? international community has pledged $300 million to help lebanon to expedite political reform. what should be the role of international intervention for self reform going forward? minister, i will repeat the question. the international community has pledged $300 million to help lebanon to expedite political reform, what should be the role of international intervention for such reform going forward? we've heard, for instance, minister, that the french government has said it will help lebanon but any help is conditional on seeing real and substantial reform. is that something that appeals to you, minister? yes, international support has
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always been appreciated and friends of lebanon are abundant here. the most important issue is transparency. people need to know where donations come from and how they are spent. so this is maybe the lack of trust there is some kind of schism between the class and the lebanese people and to restore this trust we should work on transparency and accountability. — the issue to show more of a serious action and reforms. and mainly we have to work on the reform of the electricity sector. because it cost lebanon so far more than $47 billion which represents around 40% of the public debt. and we are paying every year $2 billion in a sector that is losing... ithink gaining,
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restoring trust starts by seriously working on reforms and by applying transparency, rule of law and accountability. 0k, rana khoury, should aid from the international community be conditional on reform? we've heard the french government say that's what they would like to see, for instance. i think the $300 million are barely sufficient to address the loss of more than 40,000 homes that have been shattered in the beirut blast. i would suggest to everyone not to pass aid through the public institutions. there are a lot of good people working on the ground and actually accomplishing something and actually repairing the houses and actually helping the injured. i don't think any reform is possible with the current political class. i would urge everyone not to pass 1p through the current political establishment but to go through other channels. we need to start differentiating between the people of lebanon and those who are ruling. that's a lot of money. the beirut blast cause for $4.6
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billion of damage according to the world bank and then another 3.5 billion because of the reduced economic activity. who is going to be receiving all these billions if they come, then? there is a lot of micro initiatives working. the red cross has been operating, a lot of big organisations have been operating, international operating on the ground. from my own experience and what i learned from my parents and grandparents and maybe great grandparents, money that goes into the public institution will never see the light... i want to answer we have to pay attention also that we do not stereotype. because some are good and some are bad. and even ngos we have to be
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very vigilant in choosing which want to work with. so i think that it's a matter of trust, it's a matter of trust with people and not with industries or sectors. so we have to know with whom to work and we have to know with whom to give trust. and now our final question is from british—lebanese antoinette foster who joins us from the north of england. what is your question, please? thank you for inviting me to the show. as a lebanese, i can say lebanon is in a political turmoil. and it is always been, unfortunately. i can't tell you what's next. all i can say is surely lebanon will rise again. and i'm so proud to be lebanese. do they agree that lebanon will rise again? all right, thank you. so, manal abdel samad? thank you so much for this positive spirit. and this positivity. this is what we need
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to raise lebanon again. and this is the support you can give to lebanon. we have to be positive, we have to be a changemaker and in order to be change— makers we have to have the three ps. passion, patience and perseverance. then we can reach our goal. we have the same goal, i think. i don't think i came from different groups or from the corrupt group. i came also from the people and i returned back to the people. and for the same purpose i need to change and we have to work together in this positive spirit. i think we are, we have what we call the curse of resilience.
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every time something happens they say that lebanese are resilient, they will continue, they will build again and whatever happens and i think this leads us to refrain from being angry and from calling for justice. and for me, we will rise again if we resist. if we have a breath that is long enough, that we sustain it long enough to see the change happening. but i don't agree on the fact of always covering the wounds, saying it's ok, moving on, being positive about it. i think this is the curse of resilience and rising from the ashes that the lebanese people are labelled with. i think we are very angry people. they killed us in our own homes. they were killing us in the streets... will it rise again? i mean, as long as we are here, even if we go abroad, even if we live in the uk, even if we escape for
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the sake of our children for a while, as long as we exist i think it will. but it's not about resilience and just rising in a title or in a song. it's really about seeking justice and about fighting and about getting your rights as a human being. because this is what it is all about. it transcends politics and transcends economy and everything. we took a lot as a people. we took a lot of coups, kicks, a lot of blood. it's no longer about being positive. now it is about taking what is our right. and our right is to live. thank you. manal abdel samad. i saw the civil war from day one for 15 years and later on came many other battles on our territory. what i can say that resilience is already here. that is why we are strong and what doesn't kill us makes
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us stronger. so, it's not only a slogan, it's really a fact and this is what we practice and what we used to do. we are stronger more and definitely the sunshine will rise again. thank you very much indeed. that is all from this addition of global questions. is lebanon's political system broken? we heard vigorous debates, we've heard about patience, perseverance, the curse of resilience, passion and it seems like we've ended on a relatively optimistic note that out of this current crisis that lebanon will rise again. thank you to my two panelists, the activist rana khoury, the acting minister manal abdel samad, also to those asking questions and those who joined us from all over the world and of course do you
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wherever you are watching or listening to this programme, remember if you want to be part of the programme you can submit a question. please e—mail. the weather is pretty good out there for most of us. fair weather clouds and that is how it will stay for most of the afternoon. this is the here and now. low 20s in the south—east, high teens across central parts of the uk. in the north—west it is cooler and then rain on the way which could be heavy over the next 2a hours, particularly in western parts of scotland but other areas will get rain too. in northern ireland will be a bit of rain sticking into the lake district as well. some very strong winds here. two extremes over the next 2a hours. the windy and wet weather
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critically in the north—west, whereas england and wales, part of many increasing clouds, it will stay dry. that yellow triangle indicates where the really heavy rain could be, 100 millimetres over a 20 other period in western parts of scotland. warming up in the south—east by sunday, 25 in london and monday and tuesday we are expecting a brief hot spell, temperatures up to 30 degrees in the south—east.
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this is bbc news. i'm lukwesa burak. the latest headlines... britain is "on the edge of losing control" of coronavirus — a stark warning from one leading scientist following a sharp rise in cases in the united kingdom. this is still a very widely distributed infection, it's across the whole of the uk and by every measure, the numbers are going up. boris johnson defends his plans to override parts of the brexit withdrawal agreement, saying the eu is looking to "carve up and divide" the uk. the first direct talks between afghanistan and the taliban take place in qatar. the afghans say they want to end the war. including men, women, minorities and victims
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