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tv   Dateline London  BBC News  September 14, 2020 3:30am-4:01am BST

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this is bbc news, the headlines: the world health organization has reported a record—one—day increase in global coronavirus cases. it comes as israel has become the first country to re—impose a nationwide lockdown, as it battles a surge in cases of 4,000 a day. the three—week lockdown begins on friday. more than 20,000 firefighters are now tackling wildfires on the west coast of america. millions of acres of land has been destroyed across three states — washington, california and oregon. at least 30 people have been killed in the blazes and dozens more are reported as missing. dominic thiem has etched his name on the us open trophy, securing his place in the history books with his first grand slam title. the austrian denied world number 7, alexander zverev of germany, mounting a stunning comeback after an epic, five—set blockbuster. now on bbc news,
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dateline london. hello, i'm shaun ley. welcome to the programme which brings together some of the uk's leading commentators and bbc specialists with the foreign correspondents who try to explain this country to those back home, filing their stories with the dateline: london. the coronavirus infection rate is rising in the uk. we'll discuss that and newly imposed restrictions, but we're devoting much of this week's programme to the global impact of the pandemic — in particular what it means to those countries without the economic resilience and comprehensive health services to see it through. joining me this week: ian birrell from the mail on sunday and ned temko from the christian science monitor.
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and here in the studio, at a covid—safe distance, the bbc‘s special correspondent, clive myrie. more than 27.5 million people infected, 900,000 dead. on monday, india recorded its highest daily infection figure — close to 91,000. heroic efforts by scientists researching vaccines, the guinea pigs testing them and those treating the sick give us hope for the future. yet, as those figures demonstrate, the reality is that we are only nine months into a pandemic the world health organization says could be with us beyond next year. between april and june, india's economy shrank by a quarter. between the first and the second quarter, south africa's economy was down by 51%. ian birrell, let's leave those bigger countries for a moment and talk about the smaller and poorer countries in the world, the least developed countries.
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every country has basically got the same question they are wrestling with. a new virus and we don't understand very much about it. how do we balance protection of public health and balancing the economy and wider health issues? we are beginning to see now the danger of many developing world countries rushing down to follow the same tactics used in the richer western nations, in particular, because they have very different population dynamics. and the data coming in is frankly pretty alarming. of course, the figures in india sound terrifying with rising infections and a high number of deaths, but the fatality rates are much lower than in countries like italy or the us or the uk or even places like peru. i've been looking at the figures in africa where, on the face of it, a lot of countries have done a lot better than expected when it comes to the virus. but now we're beginning to see the wider impact and,
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frankly, it's utterly terrifying. the figures coming in... one study predicts a 9.1% increase in extreme poverty predicted across africa, and that's setting back the fight against poverty by 20 years. we're seeing rising maternal mortality, infant mortality, malaria, tuberculosis. 0ne prediction by the lancet is talking abouti million extra child deaths in six months in the 100 poorest countries around the world. and the trouble is, what we have seen, we rushed to go to lockdown, and yet these are countries, you look at the median age in africa, and it's 18, in india it is 27, and in europe it is 41. you look at the numbers of people in the high—risk older categories and, in africa, across sub—saharan africa, it's less than 2%, whereas in a country like italy
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it's 23%. my worry is what we've done is rush to adopt the same sort of tactics, entirely understandably because this is a new disease, but not looked at the local dynamics where the age profile is so much younger and the impact for people often with no security net, no safety net, is much more profound and equally of course they're struggling with the lot of other issues like malaria. one of the figures that struck me this week was latin america, where the numbers may have started to level off and even slightly begin to decline by the end of august. at the moment, 95% of schoolchildren in latin american countries, and there are some odd exceptions like bolivia where they may not go back
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to next year, but 95% across the americas are still at home. the educational and economic consequences of that for developing countries must be pretty severe. that's absolutely right. i would add one caveat to what ian said and i agree with everything he said. one of the things we don't know about this disease, unfortunately, is the long—term effects. there is some indication these exist on younger people. yes, they initially don't seem to get as ill or as widely ill. but we should be cautious because particularly there are neurological conditions that seem to occur in some young patients. and the fact is we just don't know enough. ian's general point and yours is crucially important. and i would zero in as well on education, both in latin america, in africa,
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in parts of south asia, education and jobs, particularly in the informal sector, are a matter of life and death, and education particularly for young women, have been an engine for social change, economic change in whole societies and whole countries. it's a difficult balance, but there are absolutely potentially dire consequences for shutting down economies and education systems, particularly in developing countries. clive myrie, you know south africa well, you've talked about the dramatic impact on the economy there and the dramatic shutdown that president ramaphosa ordered for the country. at least that is a country that has a relatively resilient economy in recent years, but how is it bearing up? not least its health services? very badly, there is no question about that. and i totally agree with my two co— panellists here. the longer—term effects
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of the pandemic on developing countries and on a place like south africa, rwanda, liberia and so on, the longer—term effects are potentially much worse than the pandemic itself. but it is easy at this stage to look back and say, well, these countries should have done differently. we talk about south africa, its health system, one of the better ones on the continent, but frankly still not up to snuff in dealing with a global pandemic that very few people understood, certainly six months ago. injuly, i think they had 11,000 infections a day. i know it's gone down to about 1,000 a day now, but for any system to be dealing with that volume of potential medial demand, it's not something you can plan for. absolutely not, particularly for countries on the continent of africa that are incredibly pooh we saw how spain, italy, the us, uk and so on,
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developed countries, have struggled themselves. adding to the suggestion from ian that the average age of a lot of the people in these countries is lower, therefore the health requirements could have been different. there's also a level of herd immunity o a degree for these countries because their inhabitants have been subject to coronaviruses in the past. they are a little bit more developed in dealing with local outbreaks of disease because of ebola and so on. but i think it is easy to look back and say, ok, they should have done this or that, the question is what do they do now? and that's really what we should be focusing on. let's stay with that question of what they do now. in the uk, cases of infection are rising, but from a much
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lower level and at a slower rate than in the period that led to a national lockdown. borisjohnson is a politician who prefers to look to the sunny uplands rather than wade too deeply through the quick sand of decision—making and delivery. he believes pessimism in public life risks being self—fulfilling and perhaps hopes optimism can be, too. this week, though, because the rate of infection is growing, he has had to deliver bad news. social gatherings are to be restricted, to a maximum of two households and no more than six people. but the prime minister then held out the hope of covid tests performed so quickly — results received in 90 minutes and perhaps as few as 20 — that many things we can't do at the moment, like go to a concert or see a play, could be possible again. clive, you were talking about the dilemma of what you do now to pull back the number of cases to keep a grip on what's happening. it's getting harder for the government
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in the uk, isn't it? not least because even some of the prime minister's own backbenchers are now saying the trade—off between freedom and health, they think has gone too far towards health at the price of freedom, economic and social. yeah, he's facing a bit of a backbench rebellion, really, on this. because, as you say, there are many within his own party who see this as a fundamental attack on their own freedom and the freedom of the british people. this comes at a dangerous time. it's six months since the world health organization declared this a global pandemic, six months yesterday. and it is only in the next two weeks that the uk is going to be rolling out a comprehensive track, test and trace system across the country. six months on. that isn't good for any of us, it has to be said. and at the same time, you've got surveys earlier this week that suggest that two thirds of the british population see those people who are not potentially following the rules
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as people they either despise or hate. coronavirus, rather than bringing the country together, which was the sense from the office of national statistics back in march, has essentially divided us as a country far more deeply and sharply than brexit. borisjohnson is coming out with these rules that are draconian, in the minds of many, at a time when the country is deeply divided on this issue, when carrying the country for any leader in this pandemic is crucial, but it is proving more difficult here. what do you make of that? borisjohnson likes to be the cheerleader in chief, but then he came out with this announcement that in a sense you could argue he is trying to keep people optimistic and hopeful when the figures are going the wrong way and at a time when there is a danger people throwing up their hands and saying, what's the point, we are stuck with this thing? so we'll ignore the rules. presumably he's trying
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to say a hold on a bit longer, something better is on the horizon if we can get testing much more frequent and intensive. something closer to normal life is there, just out of reach. i think unfortunately boris johnson's natural instinct and political beliefs are the wrong sort of things we need now... i think clive was very accurate in what he was saying. i was in sweden a few weeks ago, which now looks to be rising in terms of new infections and rates. what's so striking there is they have come together. rather than flip—flopping like we've seen and several other european countries have seen in terms of lock downs and then encouragement to go back to work and eat out and go to bars and then another reversion, which is what you're seeing, which makes it very
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difficult to understand for the public, sweden went for a very simple and sustainable approach, and it is interesting there have been able to do that because it is a unified society where people trust each other and their leaders, and i think this issue of trust, when the history books of this very dark age written, will focus a lot on this issue of trust and the way societies can or can't come together, which i think has been a real problem for countries like the uk and like the us. revelation towards the end of the week that donald trump had told a journalist back in spring, i'm talking down the threat from covid. he was challenged about that at a white house press conference at the end of the week. he said, look, i don't want to frighten people or drive the world into a frenzy. on the one hand he is saying he's trying to calm things down, on the other it is against the backdrop of a highly divisive and very
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partisan political environment in the states. yeah, partially the partisanship you have to put at donald trump's door, he revels in it. but at that same press conference, the journalist in question said, is it really a choice between panic and clear truth—telling? and raised the issue of angela merkel, who did both. and i think that is boris johnson's and donald trump's, to a certain extent, political challenge. and that is if they want to reopen the economy, which is understandable, we all want that, the key is clear messaging. you can take the swedish option, which is very controversial, you can take the german option, the new zealand option... all of the ones that work have in common a really sober ability to talk to people and say, this is the problem, this
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is what we are proposing to do to confront it, and this is why. and the danger for both trump and to a certain extent for boris johnson is the messaging has been muddled and the trump — trust in both of those leaders has suffered accordingly. now what we've got now in the uk, we have simpler rules, the rule of six. we've got a new public health campaign. "hands, space, face." in a sense we are almost back to where we were. without a lockdown. very strong rules of which the government is now saying will be enforced. yeah, the police will be involved a lot more now. and they have been over the last few months to a degree, but they will be really cracking down, by all accounts. i mean, ned and ian are absolutely right about this issue of trust. and the different kinds of messages, the way the messages have been put out
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there by the johnson administration have left room for doubt, room for obfuscation and room for misinterpretation, and we don't really know what's going on. and perhaps that does feed into this idea that there are sections within the population who simply don't trust the messages that are coming out from number 10. and it is, as ned was saying, those countries where there is a build—up of trust that has been there before the pandemic, where those health messages have been clearer, more straightforward, and the public have been more willing to follow them. and studies have suggested these are actually countries that are by and large led by women — thailand, new zealand, germany, finland, iceland. yazmeen was making this point on dateline last weekend. these... exactly. this is an issue of trust that
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needs to be analysed and needs to be looked at. it does feel a bit like groundhog day, having this message of six in a house and six out of a house and so on and so forth that you can get together with. simplifying the message should have happened a long time ago. in terms of the longer—term implications of all this, ian and ned, i don't know which of you wants to pick up on this point first. where are we on global cohesion as a result of this pandemic? because we had lots of things like shutting airports, closing borders. there are things like remittances, the huge amount of money transferred by foreigners, who send money back home to the folks back home. what are the kind of longer—term implications, do you think? ned, do you want to pick up on that first? i think there are multiple. and to come to one. the short answer is, global cohesion has suffered partly because of covid—19. it has been exacerbated, but partly because that is the universe we live in now, particularly with the trump administration. but one in particular i'd
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like to briefly identify and that is the question of a vaccine, we don't have any international or workable international strategy on distributing equitably a vaccine, if and when one appears. and people like david miliband, the former british foreign secretary, and others involved particularly in the developing world, have expressed rightly concern that developing countries will once again be put on the back of the queue. ian? well, i think, in a way, covid has really sped up all the changes that are already happening. one of the sad changes is the falling apart of any global cohesion and we've seen that from the start of the pandemic and we see it now. this has dire impact in terms of how we resolve
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this and get a vaccine. it has become a macho contest of who is going to develop a vaccine, rather than working out a way to equitably build and develop and share a vaccine with billions of people around the world, in a way that everyone benefits rather than individual countries benefit. and at the very start, you mentioned remittances, because of the economic turmoil and the difficulties of getting stuff through, we that know remittances were four times the size of aid and many more times effective in terms of getting to people on the ground and helping people. and it's one of the reasons this pandemic is such a problem for some of the poorer parts of the planet. one of the things, clive myrie that may not have caught much public attention was last weekend the government announcing £700 million targeted at some of the most vulnerable countries, little things that could make a difference, like in bangladesh, refrigeration projects so they can get a vaccine and store it. if you can't store it safely it
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will become unuseful. little things that can be done with the developing world to help each other. that is the kind of thing we have to say, this is a global pandemic, we all know that. if you deal with a problem in one country and you're still getting infections in another, global travel, sea routes, air, trade, that problem will come to your shore. we have to work closely around the world. going back to what ned and ian were saying about the break—up of the global family, as it were, in the months and years, frankly, leading up to the pandemic... we saw that, at the very beginning of the pandemic, the chase for ventilators, the chase for masks, the chase for ppe from china. this became a rat race, frankly. we didn't see the kind of cohesion, the kind of linkage and the sense that we're all in this together that we saw back, potentially in 2008, with the global
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financial crisis. that has set the store for this rush to beat this virus on an individual level around the world and it doesn't do anybody any good. i know we will be referring to covid—19 on many, many more weekends to come. but to our ‘any other business section‘ of the programme, as our guests single out a story we might not have noticed, but they think we should. ned, do you want to kick us off with a part of europe which is in a fair degree of turmoil at the moment and some intriguing games of cat and mouse between governments and opposition in belarus? yes, this has gotten some coverage but i dare say would have gotten much more if we were not all understandably preoccupied with covid—19. and that is the case of the president lukashenko in belarus.
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europe's last surviving true soviet—style dictator. who, in a highly questionable election, according to international monitors, managed to get re—elected and now is trying to hold onto power. and there are demonstrators in the streets who have doggedly continued to fight for democratic values and democratic prerogatives. and the lukashenko regime, with the help so far of president putin in moscow, is trying to pick up the leaders of those protests and crack down on them. and doing extraordinary things like driving them over to the border and trying to force them to walk over it. the leader in question ripped up her passport. she foiled that particular ruse. and ian? i'm pleased to see the return
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of the premier league coming up, that moment when every fan can have hope and everyone is level, no matter which team you support. arsenal or west ham or liverpool. everyone is equal. as an everton fan, i know it is the hope that is painful! some are more equal than others! laughter mind that you have the covid—19 crisis, a row going on with the government saying you can only have 1,000 fans in, the premier league saying that is useless, why can not we let in more? behind this lies a huge economic catastrophe for football. all sorts of problems building up. it is a hopeful time but, equally, for any football fan, there are huge problems ahead. ian, do think it could threaten the viability of some clubs? there is no doubt it will threaten the viability of some of the smaller clubs.
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the question is whether it's sustainable, how long — it depends how long this virus goes on for, what happens with social distancing, can we find ways to get crowds back into sport stadiums, theatres and things like that? there are so many questions to be answered. that makes it difficult for the clubs trying to plot a strategy. they definitely need this. it is becoming expensive. they definitely this strategy so they can reach 1 definitely this strategy so they can reach1 million definitely this strategy so they can reach 1 million tests a day. clive, what do you think we should be aware of, apart from coronavirus? this got a bit of coverage, but nowhere near as much as it should have done. these devastating forest fires in the west coast of the us. washington state, oregon, california. some of us have seen those pictures of the sky turning completely red, a sort of doomsday view from america there. and actually, what, about five or six months ago, it feels like 25 years ago now, i was in australia, covering
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the bushfires there, the worst in australian history. some of these fires in california, some of the emergency service workers are saying that they have never seen fires as intense as that. similar situation. bone—dry summers, intensely hot, that have started slightly earlier in both australia and california and the northern united states, added to bone—dry conditions on the ground, so providing fuel for these fires to take hold. climate change, we've been talking about covid—19, but the long—term effects of climate change are going to be far worse. if you look at the debate in the united states and uk as well. and in australia... particularly in america because this is election year. climate change hardly figures, it is at the bottom of the pile. it may move up the pile now.
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gavin newsome, governor of california says look at this blood red sky. it is way down on the priority rest but probably more important longer term than anything we have discussed. a reminder to take everything we talk about in proportion. thank you all very much. good to speak to you again and good to be with you again. that's it for dateline for this week — we're back next week at the same time. goodbye. hello there. hotter weather for england and wales for the next day or two!
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rain has been causing problems in scotland. this one stretching thousands of miles up stretching thousands of miles up to the atlantic has been bringing some very large rainfall totals into the highlanders with over 140 millimetres of rain recorded in places, we will see some localised flooding and even a landslide affecting the 83 at the rest and be thankful. rain is now turning patchy. otherwise, these are the temperature is for monday. if you mist and fog patches in some of the deeper river valleys in england and wales to start the day. it is england and wales that will have the sunshine and the heat building, more in the way of cloud for scotla nd more in the way of cloud for scotland and northern ireland, patchy rain through the afternoon. 17 degrees or so but because eastern england in south—east england we will see highs of up to 30 degrees.
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this is bbc news — welcome if you're watching here in the uk, on pbs in america or around the globe. i'm maryam moshiri. our top stories: israel becomes the first country to re—impose a harsh nationwide lockdown, as the who reports a record—one—day increase in global coronavirus cases. more than 20,000 firefighters are now tackling wildfires that have killed at least 30 people on the west coast of america. as the deadline looms for the chinese—owned tiktok app to either sell or shut down its us operations, microsoft's offer to buy it is rejected. a new era in men's tennis as dominic thiem wins his first major at the us open.

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