tv BBC News BBC News September 14, 2020 9:00am-10:01am BST
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good morning, welcome to bbc news, this is victoria derbyshire. here are the headlines... restrictions in england which ban social gatherings of more than six people have come into effect. similar restrictions are in place in scotland and wales, but with younger children exempt from the ‘rule of six'. do you support the new law, the rule of six, or will you'make your own decision as a former supreme court judge lord sumption told bbc radio this morning? the prime minister's former top legal advisor geoffrey cox, says he will vote against a bill that would enable the government to break international law by overriding parts of the brexit withdrawal agreement. a british medical association survey of 8,000 doctors in england suggests most believe there'll be a second
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peak of coronavirus cases within the next six months. high winds threaten to spread devastating wildfires even further across the west coast of the united states. and coming up this hour... we'll talk to line of duty‘s adrian dunbar and vicky mcclure — dementia is a cause close to both of them. they'll explain their worries about the latest resrictions on those living with dementia social gatherings of more than six people will be banned in england from today following a steep rise in coronavirus cases. the new law will apply to people meeting in private homes — indoors and outdoors, and places like pubs and restaurants. there will be some exemptions —
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schools and workplaces. if you break the rules, you could be fined a £100 fine, which would double with each offence. lee milner has more. jenny and tom from lincolnshire have four children. today's changes mean they now won't be able to socialise together with other family or friends. i will no longer be able to see my mum and dad, we can't see my husband's brother and his wife so it willjust be the six of us, i guess. my parents are a massive support to me and i'll miss them terribly. so yeah, i think as a family we're all going to miss them very much until it's all over. i feel quite upset because as a family we've been very careful over the last six months. we've followed the rules, we've, as i say, just been careful and now i think we're being penalised because we're a big family. the changes in england, scotland and wales were announced last week in response to a rise in the number of cases of coronavirus. in england and scotland,
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the rule around social gatherings of six applies both indoors and outdoors, but in scotland, the six must be from two households only. and in wales, up to 30 people can still socialise outside. in scotland and wales, children under 12 and 11 respectively aren't included, but they are in england. larger gatherings are still allowed in gyms, places of worship and at covid—secu re weddings and funerals. while in northern ireland, six people from two households can meet indoors and up to 15 people can gather outside. i don't know why they waited till monday, i think they should have enforced it straight away because now there's going to be a repercussion of all the get—togethers over the weekend. but yes, i do think it's essential. i don't think it's fair, to be honest with you. i think if they put things in proportion at the very beginning, then we would be having a second spout of this. you have to abide by the rules, because if we don't then we're not going to get
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on top of this, are we? for anyone who breaks the rules in england, you'll be fined £100. that will double every time you are caught up to a maximum of £3,200. leigh milner, bbc news. let's talk to dr elisabetta groppelli, virologist and lecturer in global health at st george's university in london and and farooq aftab who lives in a household of 6 people. farooq, how is this new law going to affect you? yes, it's very difficult. we have been very careful for the last six months, following the rules. it just for the last six months, following the rules. itjust seems the rules keep changing. there is no endgame in sight, and after six months you'd think they would be better prepared. i'm afamily think they would be better prepared. i'm a family of six, my wife and children. that support structure is just ourselves. it makes it
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difficult for those with extended families. although there is such a high degree of variance in the scientific approach that we have our own bubble, with family members, and it just doesn't seem own bubble, with family members, and itjust doesn't seem to stack up, particularly if you can go out to a restau ra nt, particularly if you can go out to a restaurant, go to a pub, and sit down and have a meal with more than six people. what you can do in a pub and restaurant, which would have to be covid secure, they give your name and address so they can trace you if needed, and even sit with six people. but you would have to be separate from another table of six. that is the difference. in your home, when there is loads of you, you are not following two metres, are you? i think most people are sensible. if you are in the back garden, you are at least a metre apart. people know this is a terrible disease, and nobody wants a second wave. we've got to be trusted
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enough. the point is, where does it end? where is the line? it isjust the communication. we are supposed to bea the communication. we are supposed to be a union, but it is different in wales, different in scotland. there is no consistency. that is what devolution allows. let me ask dr elisabetta groppelli, why is it six? is an interesting question, doctors pointed out that we cannot find a source specifically that would support six under for example not five or seven. however, the most important thing right now is that has been mentioned in the last few months, and because the uk government wants to simplify the message, they wanted to keep the same number, so six it is. that is because coronavirus cases are rising, and as matt hancock, the health secretary what england said last week, we have to make this
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sacrifice now to get over this in the long term ? sacrifice now to get over this in the long term? absolutely, the situation now is changing in the uk, and it is changing and other european countries and across the world. so it's very important now that, as we go into what we already know is a critical part of the year, which is autumn and winter, when we know it is critical because of respiratory viruses, and we set ourselves out in the best possible way to also address the pandemic, and this new virus that is added on top of all other respiratory infections that we already know are coming. can i put to you what a former supreme courtjudge said on bbc radio 4 this morning, and farooq, i will ask you what you think ina farooq, i will ask you what you think in a moment, he is older than you, and he said, iwant to be think in a moment, he is older than you, and he said, i want to be able to make my own decisions about this. because, effectively, paraphrasing, life is short, and if i want to take
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the risk and see my grandchildren, i'm going to take that decision. as a biologist, lecturer in global health, i have to go between the virus itself, the individuals, and also the public health aspect. the difference when it comes to infectious diseases is that they are infectious, they go from one person to another and they don't only affect our own personal decisions, they potentially affect everybody else. we need to understand, our own decisions do notjust affect else. we need to understand, our own decisions do not just affect the first generational spread, we could be the start of a much longer transmission chain, regardless of oui’ transmission chain, regardless of our own clinical status, if you have mild symptoms. i think as much as democracy, of course, we do value individuals, this pandemic is showing us that our decisions go beyond us. and i was a time to prioritise public health, compared to our own individual choices. what you think, farooq, about what the
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former supreme courtjudge you think, farooq, about what the former supreme court judge said? you think, farooq, about what the former supreme court judge said ?|j can former supreme court judge said?” can sympathise with that and understand it, but we all need to do out understand it, but we all need to do our part. the issue here is that the public have been doing that for the la st public have been doing that for the last six months, by and large. it's just there are a lot of mixed messages. there are ways to keep everyone safe. what is not certain is what is the approach we should be taking? we don't know if we are adopting the right approach. the public will do what we are told, we will try to play our part in that, we are being careful. but we need to have a clear, thought out strategy. and it doesn't seem that way in the la st and it doesn't seem that way in the last few months. we should be in a better position now after six months, after all of the science and everything we know. there is such a degree of variance there. it seems like we are still no wiser. we know more about the illness and a little bit more about how... well, we haven't got a cure or vaccine, we know more about how to treat people more effectively. would you ever
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consider, farooq, contacting the police if you saw someone breaking the rule of six? because it is now law. i'm not sure, that's difficult. we have different circumstances. clearly, people will take responsibility. personally, we have lost loved ones and we know how terrible this disease is. we would hope everybody else will take it seriously. it will be down to individual circumstances of what is going on. would you consider doing that, elisabetta ? going on. would you consider doing that, elisabetta? is a very unusual situation, it is not something i have had to think about before. think about it now, what would you do? yes. you would contact the police? yes, because it is absolutely important, now the message is clear and simple, that we put it in place. if we need help enforcing it, ithink put it in place. if we need help enforcing it, i think i would certainly think that helps in terms
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of pointing it out to the right authorities. thank you very much. dr elisabetta groppelli, biologist, and farooq, a dad and husband, there are six and his family so it will be challenging, he says. we are going to be answering your questions on the new rules. we'll be speaking to professor alan maryon—davis, professor of public health at kings college london and dr bharat pankhania an expert in communicable disease control. send your questions using the hashtag #bbcyourquestions or email us on yourquestions@bbc.co.uk eight in ten doctors believe the uk is heading for a second peak of coronavirus infections before spring — according to a survey by the british medical association. around 8,000 doctors and medical students in england were questioned — most said that a working test and trace system would be the best weapon to prevent a second wave. 0ur science correspondent, pallab ghosh, reports.
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the latest figures show that there are more than 3,300 new cases a day. in the bma survey, doctors said that it's not a matter of if there's going to be a second wave, but how large it's going to be. they say the main cause is likely to be a failure of the test and trace system and confusing public health messages. now is the time, every day counts, that we identify those who have the infection, identify contacts and isolate people. that is the way you will spread the infection. senior scientific advisors say that infection is also being spread because far too many people aren't isolating when they're asked to. a government spokesperson said it had made significant strides in stopping the spread of coronavirus. they added that nhs test and trace was testing hundreds of thousands of people every day. pallab ghosh, bbc news. gps in england are being told they must make sure patients can be
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seen face—to—face when necessary. nhs england has written to all practices to remind them of the guidance after more than half of gp consultations from march tojuly were done by phone or video call. the royal college of gps said it was "an insult" to imply that doctors are not doing theirjobs properly. the president of belarus has arrived in russia for talks with vladimir putin, who has offered support in the face of mass protests. there is speculation moscow will push for closer bilateral ties in exchange for its continued support. tens of thousands of people have been marching in the capital, minsk, and other cities, in the latest of several weeks of mass protests against the embattled president. police said they arrested about 400 people ahead of and during the protests, described as the march heroes. the former prime minister david cameron has added his voice to those
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concerned about legislation which would enable the government to over—ride parts of the brexit withdrawal deal. it comes as borisjohnson‘s former attorney general, geoffrey cox, condemned the government's plans. in a newspaper article this morning, mr cox said going back on the deal would be "unconscionable". the internal market bill is due to have its second reading in the commons today. let's get the thoughts now of our political correspondent — iain watson. what has david cameron said? what is interesting is that david cameron has obviously said effectively that he has kept his own counsel for quite some time, as a former prime minister he does not want to be in a position where he talks out during the course of the negotiations, but he has broken his silence today. of course, it follows interventions by other former prime ministers, tony blairand other former prime ministers, tony blair and john major yesterday, going in very strongly on their that the attempts to break international law, albeit in a limited and specific way, could actually undermine the friday agreement in
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northern ireland, and we have also had interventions from theresa may, worried about the effect of international law being broken and, also, from gordon brown. it is the latest in a long line of prime ministers. today, a little bit more restraint perhaps than john major and tony blair, but nonetheless he expressed his misgivings. well, passing an act of parliament and then going on to break an international treaty obligation is the very, very last thing you should contemplate. it should be an absolute final resort, so i do have misgivings about what's been proposed, but i would just make this point. so far, what's happened is the government has proposed a law that it might pass or might not pass, or might use or might not use, depending on whether certain circumstances do or do not appear. and of course the bigger picture here is, we are in a vital negotiation with the european union to get a deal, and i think we have to keep that context, that big prize in mind, and that's why i've perhaps held back from saying more up to now.
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david cameron now not holding back. he is making a point that whether the government actually breaches international law is something that may happen further down the line in these negotiations, it is not a definite. but certainly putting forward that intention has led to a very strong intervention from geoffrey cox, the former attorney general, the senior legal officer when the withdrawal agreement with the european union was being drawn up. the reason i think is intervention is significant is simply this, quite frankly, inside downing street, they don't care a great deal whether even david cameron, never mind tony blair gets involved in criticising them. they see those as people who campaign to remain in the european union and it is no big surprise they are critical of the government's tactics. but geoffrey cox has made it very clear that he is a staunch brexiteer, but asa that he is a staunch brexiteer, but as a former law officer he believes
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that the government has crossed a line, crossed an important boundary, as he says, by even signalling its intention to break the law. therefore, his intervention is likely to bring some other sceptical conservative mps with him. i don't expect the government might go to lose tonight's boat, but there will be attempts to change the legislation further down the line, especially next week, and that would bea especially next week, and that would be a more interesting test for the government. earlier today the policing minister, kit malthouse, yes, the policing minister, said it was fine to break international law, just not domestic law. international treaties are as much about the spirit and the intent as they are about the letter of the law. and no—one, as i say, contemplated that the situation would occur. and i have yet to hear a compelling solution, if you like, to the practical issue that we are being faced with, that hopefully will never occur, but that may occur in the future, and why we shouldn't have an insurance policy for that. if it comes through in the debate this afternoon, then great.
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maybe we can resolve it through the standing resolution mechanism. but if we can't, we need to be able to protect the integrity of the united kingdom. i should explain what the insurance policy is that he is talking about. effectively, the government is saying that the eu are threatening to withhold what is called third country listing from the united kingdom after the end of the transition period, when we stop following eu rules. it would potentially prevent the uk from exporting some food products to the eu. because we have already signed up eu. because we have already signed up and agreed there would be different rules apply in northern ireland, the government is saying there is a danger we could be prevented from exporting food from great britain into northern ireland. so they want to have a tough response. if negotiations fail with the european union over the next few months, they want a back—up option, a backstop option of britain
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interpreting the agreement with the eu in its own way, disregarding part of the agreement with the eu. that is why they say this legislation is so important. i think they will get a majority for it at this stage in the commons, but pressure from some pretty high ranking conservatives, former ministers, chairs ofjoint parliamentary committees and the rest of it, they will be making their views known. not a defeat for their views known. not a defeat for the government today, but i think we will here quite a bit of dissent. in a moment we'll talk to a conservative mp who does not support the bill and has come up with a change or amendment which would give parliament the final say on whether the law is broken. before that let's talk to a conservative mp who supports the government, sir desmond swayne, conservative mp for new forest west. good morning. tell our audience while you support it? because an outrageous threat has been made which could, if implemented, exclude our trade from northern ireland against existing treaty law, not least the act of the union, 1801. if
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the government did not take precautions against the possibility, it would be negligent. i think it's entirely appropriate that the government should arm itself with the powers, just in case. not according to sir geoffrey cox, boris johnson's former top legal adviser. he says the uk is obliged to accept all of the ordinary unforeseeable consequences of the implications of the withdrawal agreement. it is unconscionable for this country, justly famous for its regard for the rule of law around the world, should act in such a way. i think that is nonsense, this was not a foreseen eventuality. he was there, during the withdrawal agreement at the top table with his legal brain. he is entitled to his opinion, but the reality is that this is a new interpretation that has been threatened recently and was not foreseen at the time. as i say, it would be utterly negligent of a
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government not to arm itself with the powers to deal with that situation, should it arise. but the bill itself reaches no international obligation of any sort. sorry, not according to the northern ireland secretary, a government minister who told parliament last week that this would break international law. yes, this does break international law in a specific and limited way. and he was wrong to do so. writes... the bill itself merely grants a power. it doesn't use that power.” bill itself merely grants a power. it doesn't use that power. i am going to interrupt you there, brandon lewis, the northern ireland secretary, when he said that, he was not busking, he was reading from a briefing paper given to him by number 10 or his own department. nevertheless, the bill itself does not break law. the bill gives the government powers to act in the event of certain circumstances. at the bill itself does not break any
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obligation. it cannot do so, it's impossible. 0k. obligation. it cannot do so, it's impossible. ok. so, the northern ireland secretary... was wrong! he says it does break international law. he was wrong. various other top lawyers condemned it because they think it breaks international law. geoffrey cox, lord howard, former leader of the conservative party, is he wrong as well? if they are saying the bill breaks international law, they are absolutely mistaken. the bill cannot break international law. the powers that the bill might subsequently give to ministers, than if they use those powers, if those circumstances arise, will change our international obligations. that is what you might argue as a breach of law. i would say there is none, because the reality is that the government itself is protecting itself from what would be breaches of international law and creeping
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obligations. don't you have even a scintilla of doubt of voting for it? not the least. as for the comparisons that have been made off sorry, you are so sure that you are right, and so sure that they are wrong? absolutely. if there is any suggestion that the bill, or if it becomes an act of parliament, breaches our international obligations, they are utterly mistaken. are you curious as to why ministers are threatening to break international law? let me finish the question, if i may, ratherthan international law? let me finish the question, if i may, rather than rely on the dispute resolution process in the withdrawal agreement? that is some way down the line. are you curious why they have made this threat when there is a dispute resolution process? we have to arm ourselves against the possibility that the resolution process fails. an explicit threat has been made
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now. and if we don't arm ourselves to deal with that, should it arise, remember, the whole purpose of the bill is precautionary. we hope that we never have to use the powers it gives to the government. the intention is still to get a trade agreement. it is only at the end of all those processes that the question then arises of whether we breach our international obligations. i would argue that if we got to that position, we would not be doing so. obviously you voted for this withdrawal agreement, i'm wondering why now? no, i voted for the withdrawal agreement in an act of parliament earlier this year, which explicitly says in terms that the united kingdom parliament can alter the arrangements, should the need arise. and nobody shouted, oh, this is a breach of international obligations than. where was the
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great outrage there? i voted for an agreement which could be changed. what do you think of the idea of changing the bill, giving the parliament the opportunity to veto whether the government breaks international law? it seems to be a perfectly reasonable suggestion to make. i will wait and hear the arguments. i am always in favour of giving more power to parliament. but i will wait until the committee stage of the bill before ijudge that. today's debate is a second reading. the main principles of the bill. we will get to arguing about the details later. a final one on another law coming into day, the rule of six. he described in parliament recently the government requirement to wear masks as a monstrous imposition. will you
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follow the rule of six law?” monstrous imposition. will you follow the rule of six law? i will a lwa ys follow the rule of six law? i will always obey the law. but i will continue to agitate against this gross intrusion to our individual liberty that has not been debated in parliament, not been voted on in parliament, not been voted on in parliament, and i believe to be wholly wrong. what model you will a lwa ys wholly wrong. what model you will always obey the rule of law unless it is international law? this nonsense about international law. the reality is, it is parliament that makes the law. we already have international obligations that require freedom of access of our trade to northern ireland. the notion that somehow the european union can intervene with that, and expect to be allowed to do so, just look at the european union's own record on breaches of international law and rulings against its international obligations by the world trade organisation. that's why it's ok for us to do it? yes,
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absolutely, of course it is right for us to protect our national interests. we will be absurd if we did not do so. a threat has been made to exclude our trade from northern ireland. what are we supposed to do? take it lying down? let's put that to sir bob neill. he is behind the amendment that i mentioned. what are we expected to do, take it lying down? actually, what we should do is calm the language, for a start. because we are in the middle of difficult negotiations, and i don't think ramping up rhetoric on either side, the eu side or our side, particularly helps. secondly, if there was a breach on either side of there was a breach on either side of the withdrawal agreement, and the releva nt the withdrawal agreement, and the relevant parts to the northern ireland protocol, there is already established, as geoffrey cox has pointed out, an arbitration mechanism, which either side could rely upon. the obvious proper first step would be to rely upon that. so, i think there is a much more
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proportionate means of dealing with it. that is why we are proposing that we don't bring into force the sections of the bill that set of nuclear triggers, if you like, unless it is necessary. i did suggest the dispute resolution process to desmond swayne, he said what the new legislation is, it is simply encase that doesn't work. it isa simply encase that doesn't work. it is a contingency, it would be negligent for the government not to come up with this? i'm not entirely convinced by the government argument, but to meet them halfway, proposed an amendment, if you are convinced that we might get to such a desperate state of affairs that arbitration arrangements were not adequate, i'd be surprised if that we re adequate, i'd be surprised if that were the case but it could theoretically happen, 0k, were the case but it could theoretically happen, ok, you can have these clauses in the bill, which is otherwise entirely reasonable, you can have those
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clauses but they should not come into effect, as you pointed out, till parliament has specifically voted upon it. so they would not be on the statute, they wouldn't have passed into legal effect until such time as parliament voted on them. how much support do you have for this? well, i think we have a significant and growing amount of support. because a lot of people from both sides of the old leave and remain argument, as you pointed out, are concerned about this. because britain has a reputation for being a country that stands by its word. we have a reputation for being world leaders in upholding the rule of law. and it would be a very bad look, reputation only, if we were seen to be breaching that, either in the most exceptional circumstances, and it would not be good for our prospects of signing trade deals going forward, and we have seen that with the comments coming from washington. were you reassured when
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the justice secretary said he washington. were you reassured when thejustice secretary said he would resign hisjob thejustice secretary said he would resign his job if thejustice secretary said he would resign hisjob if the law thejustice secretary said he would resign his job if the law was thejustice secretary said he would resign hisjob if the law was broken ina way resign hisjob if the law was broken in a way that i find unacceptable.” know roberts to be an honourable man, i know roberts to be an honourable man, lam know roberts to be an honourable man, i am sure know roberts to be an honourable man, lam sure he know roberts to be an honourable man, i am sure he would know roberts to be an honourable man, lam sure he would not know roberts to be an honourable man, i am sure he would not be party to any breaking of the law. i believe the bill, as it is phrased, does run the risk of breaking the law, needlessly, because when it comes into royal assent, a concept thatis comes into royal assent, a concept that is provided for in the withdrawal agreement, called the direct application of european law, to the relevant parts of this withdrawal agreement, very limited application, but something that we signed up to, would be removed as the bill currently stands, at royal assent. that, to my mind, and geoffrey cox agrees with this, would itself take is outside our international agreement. that is why i have a parliamentary lock on to say it won't happen straightaway when the bill gets royal assent, until such a time as parliament positively votes to do so. having
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heard ministers make the case. when it comes to the vote tonight, will you, you will abstain, is that right? yes, i'm going to abstain to send a signal. this is what, this is what speaks to a lack of trust in politics, why aren't you voting against it? because most of the bill is very sensible, and i think it is going to be necessary come what may, and because i want to give the government a chance to improve it. i think some of my colleagues feel so strongly about this they will vote against the bill tonight, i am prepared to meet the government half way at this stage, but i make it very clear, that that is purely to give a chance for it to progress to the committee stage, if it was not amended in the committee stage, to re move amended in the committee stage, to remove what i think are the damaging effects of these clauses i could not support it when it comes for its third reading. should anything happen to your colleagues if they
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vote against the government tonight? absolutely not. there are plenty of occasions on matters of important principle there can be disagreement. this is smear of constitutional law, constitutional principle and i am surely, i wouldn't be doing anything excessive as that, i think i have had a perfectly civilised set of discussion with ministers about this and about the way forward and what we are trying to do is to help the government to get through a difficult situation, but suggest to them a better way of dealing with it, than that which has been drafted in this piece of legislation. do you get any inside steer they might back down, they might concede because publicly they are clearly not?” don't think but the nature of these things people say much in advance of the second reading debate, that, there is always lines of communications open and i think we are, they will be interested to see the numberof are, they will be interested to see the number of people who express reservations hand is clearly growing, as you have pointed out,
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victoria, and also, we will have the committee stage as it goes forward. they will have to bear in mind getting it through the house of lords. 0kly, i hope they are not giving up on working hard to get an agreement, in the negotiations, they are da that are going on with david frost and michel barnier, if we can get a deal we won't have to worry about this at all. thank you for talking to us. thank you. thousands of homes and some entire towns have been destroyed by the wildfires that have been raging in oregon, washington state and california — where president trump will meet emergency services workers later today. 0pponents have accused him of being in denial about climate change — after he said that wildfires sweeping through west coast states were caused by poorforest management. some of the biggest fires the west coast has ever witnessed, raging now for three weeks. the scale and sheer number of them pushing firefighters
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to their limits. high winds are now threatening to fan the flames even further. an eerie quiet has descended on berry creek in california where the fires have been extinguished, but it's still to dangerous for residents to return, theyjust have to wait out of town. but they are the lucky ones, some didn't get out alive. parts of oregon now have the worst air quality in the world. the route to safety was far from clear. the road and the whole mountainside through the canyon, all you could see is just flames and then it went black, grey and then white and itjust covered the whole sky. president trump will visit the area today with a row over the cause of the fires raging. he blames poorforest management, democrats say it's down to climate change. but for firefighters, the immediate concern is saving lives. simon jones, bbc news.
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line of duty‘s adrian dunbar and vicky mcclure say they're worried about those with dementia as we face further lockdowns and more restrictions. for both its an issue close to their heart. mr dunbar‘s 88—year—old mum has had dementia for seven and a half years and is in a care home in northern ireland. vicky mclure's bbc programme 0ur dementia choir showed how music could help and stimulate people with the condition — here she is introducing the singers at nottingham's royal concert hall last year. welcomes to the royal concert hall. i know i could rely on you. very nervous. it's been a greatjourney, and i've made a lot of friends. but i don't want to mess it up, i want to do itjust right and i don't want to let everybody down. without further ado, nottingham, may i introduce you to our choir. they are all living with dementia, but they want to show you despite that, today, they can achieve incredible things. 0ur choir! dementia choir, come on.
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cheering and applause. this is bernard, here is maureen. there's maurice, he was the nottingham singing landlord. let's talk to them both. good morning. good morning. thank you very much for talking to us, i know this is an issue close to both of you. adrian, how worried are you about people like your mum and others with dementia as we face further restrictions? well, i am worried and it has been flagged up in the news last nigh. these are the most vulnerable people in society andi most vulnerable people in society and i remember right at the start of the pandemic, that we kind of lost sight of that and there was very low numbers here in northern ireland, and very few deaths and yet we kept testing you know the workers, the nurses, doctors rightly so but we forgot the care homes of were left behind a and it is people moving in
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and out of the care homes who really need tested because the people in the care homes do have a lots of background health issues, etc, etc, so, i hope they are not left behind this time and i hope they are focussed upon at this point. and vicky, how would you say your friends from the dementia choir have fared in the last few months?” would, i reached out to everybody the other day, and asked for their comments, the majority of our choir aren't in care home, we have some members in, but a lot of them are, some are living on their own, some people just need their friends and family and that is their main source of care, i think that has been really difficult, because they have not had, you know, the option to have people there, and the restrictions now with the six, trying to make that work is also going to be difficult, but, yeah, i meanl going to be difficult, but, yeah, i mean i spoke to them and i asked for some examples i have written down because i wanted to get it right. because it is from their words, you know, just simple things like one
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way systems in the shops has been difficult, talking has declined, their physical and mental health, and even maureen who we lost sadly a couple of weeks ago, she didn't understand the virus and kept trying to brush it off. 0ff. understand the virus and kept trying to brush it off. off. it is very complicated. it is complicated for us complicated. it is complicated for us to understand, for people living with dementia it is a confusing time and they need their friends and family. and they need the stimulus, everything starts to fail if you are not being stimulated all the time. my not being stimulated all the time. my mother is in a care home, as you say, just outside my home town, you know, my sisters and the family gets to see her and talk to her, you know, at a distance, she can come out to the door, but you know all these people, they need stimulus all these people, they need stimulus all the time, otherwise their faculties start to drift away. that is right. there are some care homes, take your point vicky not even is in a care home, if i can follow this through
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with adrian, there are some care homes who you would argue right are now stopping the visits again, the socially distance visits, through plastic screens because of this rise in coronavirus cases but i wonder, if you think in the name of infection control that some potential harm is being inflicted on some patients with dementia, adrian? well, yes, obviously, you know, this isa well, yes, obviously, you know, this is a trade off between you know, really, the basic thing ofjust staying alive or, a deterioration in the patient. it mean, you know, it isa the patient. it mean, you know, it is a terrible scenario for, you know, the people in the care homes, but the staff in the care homes, i mean, a lot is, is resting on what they do now, how they respond themselves to it, and we have to give them support, because they are the link between the people inside and the people outside, so if we are going to close the care homes down, we have to support the staff who are, who are working in them. that is my opinion. vicky, i am struck by
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what you said about your friend from the dementia choir, you know, the sort of deterioration i suppose in the conditions of some of them because of the lack of being able to see people they love, but, yet they have avoided the virus. yes, i mean we have all, everybody's trying to avoid the virus, we have had some members in the choir that have had the virus and luckily got through it thank god, you know, just in the clip you showed there, you heard ray talking about how she didn't want to let her friends down, she was nervous and just about to go on and perform and she is an example of living in assisting lived, she lives on herown, living in assisting lived, she lives on her own, she hasn't seen anybody for six months until two days ago when some of the choir members went to visit her because she was allowed a visitor, she as been alone for six months and all she has seen is the ca re rs months and all she has seen is the carers and she speaks very highly of them, they have been brilliant but
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to see family and friend and not see these people, rae, the singing for everybody in the choir, the music and interaction, everything that brings, you know, it might only be once every few weeks but we have lost that now and it has made, you know, it has changed people's lives and meant every person in the choir has deteriorated in some way, because you know, like adie was saying it stimulates people in a way we don't realise the power it brings interacting with people and if we can encourage care homes especially, to try and enforce that and just make sure there is things that are hag. i know care homes are good at it and it is something they are famous for some of the ones i visited, but some don't have the facilities u and sometimes you only need a speaker or somebody to play a guitar, trying to get something in there to keep people's spirits lifted, really. how is your mum adrian, if you don't mind me asking? my adrian, if you don't mind me asking? my mother u you know, you know she
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was always a positive person all her life and that seems to have bled through into her alzheimer's, she keeps positive, when we go to see her, she is positive and anybody who comes to see her, so thankfully within herself she is an extremely positive and always been an active person, but i know that you know, she could really benefit with singing, she has been a singer all her life, she could benefit with all that and she loves people, she has worked with people also, you know, she, she likes the environment of being with a lot of people so that suits her, so there are things that suits her, so there are things that suit her but for other people that may not be the case. ok. well, thank you very much for talking to us, because there will be many people watching who are in a similar position to yourself adrian and to you vicky who have friends with dementia, relatives with dementia, i am going to ask you about you both sitting on the sofa because someone will complain about the fact you are not social distancing, explain you
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must be in a bubble forfilming. yes, we are in a bubble vicky and i for filming yes, we are in a bubble vicky and i forfilming and yes, we are in a bubble vicky and i for filming and so we are best tested every couple of days —— being tested. we a re tested every couple of days —— being tested. we are following the rule strictly. yes, thank you very much. really appreciate it. thank you for talking to us. thanks a lot. good luck with the rest of the filming. if you have particular experience, if you have a relative with dementia, and as vicky said they don't have to be in a home, many aren't, you maybe looking after them at home or if they are in a care home what are your concerns as we head into the rule of six restriction, send me an e—mail. 0r message me on twister. the headlines now. restrictions in england which ban social gatherings of more than six people have come into effect — with some exceptions. similar restrictions are in place
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in scotland and wales but with younger children exempt from the rule of six. the prime minister's former attorney general, geoffrey cox, says he will vote against a bill that would enable the government to break they law by overriding parts of the brexit withdrawal agreement. trade unions are urging the government to extend its job retention scheme, which is due to end in october. the tuc says that without more support — including state—subsidised wages — there will be a "tsunami" ofjob losses, with the bank of england predicting the unemployment rate could rise to 7.5%. the government said supporting jobs was "an absolute priority". with the new "rule of six" restrictions coming into force, our social lives may look rather different for the foreseeable future. large parties and gatherings are banned from today — so our arts correspondent david sillito spent yesterday among opera fans — and their teddies — enjoying one last hurrah.
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this is the world of teddies! is this his first trip to the opera? it is! he's been very excited all day, yes. does it have a name? bruno. we'd better start by explaining the teddies. this is grange park 0pera and a one—off performance of a socially distanced opera, which means there are big social distancing gaps in the audience. and so, to make it look less empty, they've been asked to bring a furry friend, or two, or three. i think it's fascinating to see grown men who normally run sort of multinational corporations carrying large teddies around. i never thought i'd get them to do it! it's the high point of my life! # i told the runners and the riders... but onstage, an opera, written during lockdown and designed to be performed with coronavirus restrictions. and it's the first time in months that the singers have seen an audience.
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so, everything has got these marks telling you exactly where you're allowed to stand, two metres spaces either side, you're only allowed to sing in that direction, no singing face—to—face. the whole thing has been devised and created with social distancing in mind. i deliberately designed it so that everybody would have two metres apart from one another around the table. one has to be just practical. at these times, one — art takes a back seat, sometimes. no singing face—to—face, no snogging — that is the other thing. those are the two things that you miss out on. but apart from that, i think it's ok. but this is just a one—off experiment — the economics just don't work for theatres — and with the new restrictions on get—togethers, this felt like a moment. this is my wife and this is my sister, and these are my friends. we're very sad about it. it will affect our life in terms of when we can see the family,
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because there's some of them who are already five in their family so we won't get to see the others, but i mean, you just make do, don't you, with these things? you have to! it feels a bit strange, in a way, that tomorrow it's going to be six and then today, we're in this big group, so... but the last hurrah in a way, so... a sunny afternoon of near normality. that's mummy, that's baby. but few were expecting to be back anytime soon. david sillito, bbc news, grange park 0pera, surrey. thank you for your messages about dementia. 0ne says my dad hasals, he is missing his group. mum is missing her carers group where she can get respite from dad for an hour, it is awful watching them being so secluded. andy says my mum has dementia and i haven't seen her
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properly since march, i can't get to see her and her life is now coming to an end. i can see her through the window. as this is the closest i can get, she is now bed bound, she is not eating and she has not, and she is not drinking, she has lost so much weight. the care home staff are doing a wonderfuljob. it is a very very sad situation. we heard from adrian dunbar, dementia is a cause very close to both their hearts, what is the situation now that we have this rule of six, when it comes to particularly those with dementia in ca re particularly those with dementia in care homes? there has been problems with family since march, since the lockdown and that hasn't really changed a lot in some parts of the country, and for, the fear is if the
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rule of six starts to kick in, there could well be no visiting until about march april of next year, which obviously is not acceptable forfamilies which obviously is not acceptable for families and people living with dementia. what might the impact of that be, if that does come to pass? i would say for the residents more social isolation, a lack of understanding as to why their relatives rrnts visiting, feeling they have been abandoned, we had on they have been abandoned, we had on the helpline we are getting calls from family members who are saying, because of the lack of visiting when they do a window visit or an eye pad visit, what they are finding is the relative seems to have deteriorated considerably, particularly psychologically and cognitively. what do row do? care homes have to protect there, their residents from coronavirus. absolutely. ithink protect there, their residents from coronavirus. absolutely. i think we have sent a letter out to matt
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hancock in may and injuly this year, suggesting some things that could be done, to enable safe visiting to take place. 0ne could be done, to enable safe visiting to take place. one of those is about regular testing so the relatives should be tested in the same way as the care staff are, we have also spoken about ppe being available for people that are visiting. and we have always said we should have a situation where the government is giving clearer guidance to care homes, rather than leaving it on a case by case basis, because we are finding that some of the care homes quite rightly are concerned that people are going to be bringing in covid within their ca re be bringing in covid within their care settings, but we are already seeing that the increasing rate of covid in the care settings is coming from the staff, not from the relatives. let me read you this e—mail if! relatives. let me read you this e—mail if i may, karen says my mum's best friend is 94. she has all her faculty, she went into dorm a couple
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of weeks before lockdown, she might as well have been in a prison cell. she is not allowed to mix with residents other visitor, my 88—year—old mum is so worried about her, i mean if there is someone watching who is worried about somebody in a care home, what is the right course of action, what should they do? speak to the care home manager, that is the first port of call, explain what the situation is, explain that they would like to visit, they would like to visit safely, ask whether it is possible for them to have a test, so if the person has, is free from covid, they are able to visit, to see mother, on top of that, we have got the admiral nurse dementia helpline, we are open seven days a week and we can give specific advice on a case by case basis. finally, are you dementia uk backing the organisationjohn's campaign which is campaigning for a
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judicial review for the government's guidelines when it comes to visiting ca re guidelines when it comes to visiting care homes? yes, we are indeed. john's campaign is part of the group. the ten leading dementia hearties of the uk are all a part of this one dementia voice and we are asking for the same thing, so we are supporting john's campaign thank you for talking to us this morning. thank you. dism the greek prime minister says a permanent migrant reception centre will be built on the island of lesbos to replace the moria camp, which was destroyed by fire last week. the blaze left more than 12,000 asylum seekers without shelter. kathryn armstrong reports. settling into a new home. children and the elderly here on the greek island of lesbos among the first migrants to be given temporary shelter, after several nights of sleeping rough. just down the road, the remains of what was the overcrowded moria camp until it was gutted by fire nearly a week ago, forcing
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its 13,000 occupants to flee. the authorities say they hope to rehouse everyone within a week. the prime minister has promised a new facility, and says this is a good time for other european countries to help people find more permanent homes. translation: what happened in moria, which is a tragedy, must be seen as an opportunity. first of all, as an opportunity to reactivate europe in a direction of solidarity to greece, and to adopt a common immigration and asylum policy at a european commission level. for many migrants, the solution is simple. let them leave the island all together, and be resettled elsewhere. translation: we need help, from all the countries in europ. we want help not to stay here, here it is a prison. there is one camp, now they have made a new camp. all the people are coming
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to a prison, not a camp. some residents are also opposed to the idea of a new camp, saying it is too much of a burden for the small island. and then there is a growing threat of a serious coronavirus outbreak. 12 people entering the new camp tested positive for covid—19 on sunday. that is on top of the 35 whose test results came back positive on the day moria burned down, and were unable to be isolated. with food aid struggling to get in, and little progress being made in efforts to find a satisfactory long—term solution, the unrest on lesbos over the future of thousands is likely to continue. catherine armstrong, bbc news. from empty supermarket shelves to "thank you nhs" banners and key workers wearing personal protective equipment — there are certain images which have come to define our experience of the last six months. today, the national portrait gallery is launching an online exhibition
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of photographs which — it hopes — capture the "resilience, it was the duchess of cambridge's idea and — as sarah campbell reports — it has already received the queen's approval. moments captured on camera during lockdown, every picture telling a story. titled be safe, daddy, a cuddle between a father and daughter before his next working shift as a paramedic. loved ones are separated by glass in last precious moments. and empty — 3—year—old leo's mother, who took the picture, said she experienced panic and a fear that this would be the new normal. this was a project initiated by the duchess of cambridge — herself a keen photographer — and she, along with four other judges, have the job of whittling the thousands of entries to just 100. i felt strongly that i really wanted to try and create a portrait
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of the nation, that sort of captures the fears and hopes and, you know, the feelings of the nation at this really extraordinary time. the images convey the difficulties faced by so many. kerry hales from bridge end, after three hours working in ppe, titled her portrait this is what broken looks like. in the first kiss, a father captures the moment his newborn son tries to kiss his mother, despite the plastic barrier. thejudging process itself was really interesting and very moving and obviously, going through those images and seeing all of these different stories — some of which are, you know, joyful and heart—warming, some of which are profoundly moving or even harrowing — it's something that i think has stayed with all of us. a rainbow playground at a school in norfolk. short cut features a tense diy haircut using dog clippers. and taken by big sister marcella, home—schooling in dagenham. congratulating all those who submitted a portrait,
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the queen has said in a statement that she had been inspired to see how the photographs have captured the resilience of the british people at such a challenging time. sarah campbell, bbc news. pa rt part of the group. the dism thanks for your messages about dementia, particularly with regards to the further rebelling industryion, alison said i was watching vicky and adrian talking about dementia, my heartbreaks daily in april this year my amazing 91—year—old mum passed away. she was ina care 91—year—old mum passed away. she was in a care home because her dementia prevented her living elsewhere. every day she had visitors and activities that stimulated her and kept her goinger she was a huge energy, she was always in charge and a lwa ys energy, she was always in charge and always making her presence felt. she smiled, sang, she should have had yea rs of life left, smiled, sang, she should have had years of life left, with no visit and no activities it meant she slipped away with none of her family there. we have no idea if it was
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lack of stimulation, or coronavirus. which ever, it is the hardest thing i have ever had to process in my 60 year, alison, that is so upsetting, iam year, alison, that is so upsetting, i am really, really sorry for you. for the loss of your mum. this from ian, who messaged me on twitter. just watched your interview regarding dementia, my 88—year—old mum suffers from dementia. she had visitors every day prior to lockdown. it has had a dreadful effect on her, she is confused and lonely. it is breaking my heart and i don't know what i can do. as the dementia uk chief executive said, please talk to the care home at, thatis please talk to the care home at, that is where it start to start. thank you for those, if you are getting in touch you are very welcome. e—mail me. e—mail me. now it's time for a look at the weather with sarah keith—lucas. there is a late taste of summer weather in the next couple of day, particularly in england and wales, the heat is really going to be building, afairly the heat is really going to be building, a fairly brief hot spell though, from midweek it will turn
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cooler and fresher but today in england and wales lots of sunshine, a light southerly wind and in the warmest spots temperatures getting up warmest spots temperatures getting up to possibly 30 degrees for the south—east of england east anglia too, but widely in the mid to high 20s, cloudierfor too, but widely in the mid to high 20s, cloudier for scotland and northern ireland, temperatures here about 18 or 19 and there will be more rain at times pushing into western parts of northern ireland, north—west satellite scotland, that is lingers as we head into the evening, further south it remains dry, mild where ever you are, that could be mist and fog forming in sheltered parts. through the day we have the cloud across scotland, should brighten up in northern ireland later on, a bit of patchy rainfor ireland later on, a bit of patchy rain for scotland too, but much of england and wales dry again and we could see temperatures up to round 30 degrees again. bye.
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this is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. restrictions in england which ban social gatherings of more than six people have come into effect. we've followed the rules, we have just been careful. and now i think we are being penalised because we are a big family. i don't think it's fair, to be honest with you. i think if they put things in proportion at the beginning, we wouldn't be having a second spout of it. similar restrictions are in place in scotland and wales, but with younger children exempt from the ‘rule of six'. do you support the new law, the rule of six, or will you'make your own deicsion as a former supreme court judge lord sumption told bbc radio this morning?
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