the united arab emirates and bahrain have signed diplomatic agreements with israel at the white house at a ceremony overseen by president donald trump. the gulf states are only the third and fourth arab nations to recognise israel, but it's thought more may follow. the news has dismayed palestinians, whose conflicts with israel remain unresolved. the number of confirmed coronavirus infections in india has crossed five million — the second highest in the world after the us. in the past few days the virus has spread much faster than in any other country. daily infections passed 90,000 for the five days up to monday. the mayor of louisville, kentucky, has said the city is to pay $12 million to the family of breonna taylor. the 26—year—old emergency medical technician was shot 8 times by police who burst into her home in the middle of the night, during a mistaken drugs raid.

now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. what is the point of the world's nuclear watchdog the world's nuclear watchdog the international atomic energy agency? its task is to ensure that countries intent on developing nuclear power don't use their programmes as cover for development of weapons of mass destruction. but is the task impossible? my but is the task impossible? my guest is the new iaea chief, rafael grossi. from the continued bitter arguments over iran, to north korea, and saudi arabia, is the iaea another example of a global agency undermined by geopolitical division?

theme music plays rafael grossi, in vienna, welcome to hardtalk. hello, good to be with you. let me begin with a question that arises from your relatively recent appointment. how important is it that you are seem important is it that you are seem to be in the pocket of no nation, entirely independent?” think that is essential and i suppose it comes with any prominent international position. countries have their own agenda and interests and

they want to make sure that the ones leading these institutions like the iaea are truly independent. in my case even more so independent. in my case even more so because unlike other international organisations, we are inspectors, the nuclear watchdogs. i wonder if it was helpful to you when it emerged the us had done a bit of lobbying on your behalf in the run—off election process which the iaea conducted and you got the iaea conducted and you got thejob against a the iaea conducted and you got the job against a romanian candidate. the us was clearly lobbying on your behalf. was that counter—productive, damaging for you? no, not at all and damaging for you? no, not at allandi damaging for you? no, not at all and i would say it was not only the us. it was many other countries. i got a very nice two—thirds of the vote, even more than that so it was not only the us. it was 2a countries out of 35 so it was a nice ample when. you need the

finances, the hundreds of millions of dollars to run your budget and i guess it was very good news when it became clear that the us was going to continue its full funding of the iaea. we have seen it cut funding from other agencies like the who. you need to stay on site with the us? you need to stay onside with everybody. in terms of the funding, the issue of funding international organisations has been a subject of dispute. not only now, there have been waves, times, moments when countries we re times, moments when countries were reassessing how they dealt with different international organisations. in the case of the iaea, and it's indispensable role, we have a lwa ys indispensable role, we have always had a lot of support, not only from the us but many other countries. a42 nuclear other countries. 442 nuclear reactors, a lot of nuclear material out there and somebody has to check that this nuclear

material, as you said in your introduction, does not go in the wrong direction. the reason iam asking the wrong direction. the reason i am asking these questions about your independence and your relationship with the us, it was very notable this year when you took over, it did seem there was a ratcheting up of pressure on iran and information leaked to israeli source to suggest to the iranians that if they did not become more transparent you would get up with them. would you say you bought a new leadership to the iaea when it came to iran. in general. when it comes to this, one has to bearin it comes to this, one has to bear in mind, as the beatles would say, the iran issue is a

long and winding road. we have known ups and downs and it is a story that goes at least 20 yea rs story that goes at least 20 years back, in its present configuration, so it is normal that we had bad moments, where there were disagreements and, actually, this year, we went through a difficult patch, so to speak and i was in tehran a couple of weeks ago and was able to resolve these issues. there are moments, different snapshots and at the moment we are working well. you refer to this trip to iran you undertook in august. i am absolutely fascinated because before the trip there was a degree of tension with your relationship with the iranian government but after you released the joint statement in tehran there was an outbreak of goodwill from all sides and if i am not wrong, you now believe the iranians acting in good faith

with all your inspection programmes? let me say, you get it right in general. i think the non—proliferation effort is a co nsta nt the non—proliferation effort is a constant effort. you are never there, you always have to pick and prove everything is 0k. what happened this year is that i asked iran to let our inspectors access a couple of places. they did not want to so that led us to an impasse of sorts, which was not solved and i think people work solved that this would add up to other conflictual situation and debates around iran therefore it was important to solve this issue. i thought it was important to talk to them directly. they were kind enough in receiving us. i spoke to president hassan rouhani, to

foreign minister as the reef and we were able to come together to an agreement. —— zarif. the iranians centrefield weather. afterwards hassan rouhani relations were very good with you. i want to go through what you achieved. revelations about a nuclear development side after a bunch of secret iranian files and documents came to light. since then, have you been to this adadi site? our people have been able to go to a place, i

will not go to the specifics because it is confidential, we we re because it is confidential, we were able to go to one and we're going to a second one in a few days. in terms of what we achieved was important but it is not the end of the story and in order to aggrandise what we achieved, we achieved go back to the normal activity that we should have. it was as if the power had been cut out the lights are on again and we can see. this is going to be... it is not like we were in hell before and now we are in paradise. we are working again, let me put it like this.” paradise. we are working again, let me put it like this. i will push you on the details. it seems clear that you have been operating from information provided to you from information provided by the israelis? i cannot confirm because the following. we have information that we gather from

oui’ information that we gather from our inspectors. we have information that countries give us information that countries give us and we have information that comes from third parties, from other actors... you are being a little bit diplomatic... let me finish because it is important. we never act on the basis of information that we receive, we ta ke information that we receive, we take on face value and then we go and do stuff. we have a team, a very large team of experts in different technologies and areas. we go through the information. we received it, analyse it and ci’oss received it, analyse it and cross it with previous information. and only when we believe that something is worthy of further probing or questioning — this was the case with iran on this matter— we do it. you are a veteran argentine

diplomat and you are proving to bea diplomat and you are proving to be a skilled diplomat in this interview. i try to. you did get significant information from israel and clearly factored that in. you will not tell me whether it was one of the sites you went to but it is clear it was, if i am honest with you. i want you to tell me, are you now getting a level of cooperation from iran sent the international agreement was signed back in 2015? is there 110w signed back in 2015? is there now a level of cooperation that you are prepared to recognise is different from tehran?” have the level of cooperation i need now. as you said, i am relatively new so i took over in december and already, in january, i had a problem so i had to solve it. now i have a level of cooperation that allow

oui’ level of cooperation that allow our inspectors to work and we're going to see what we see. the big picture here is confusing and it gets confusing because of the deep geopolitical positions over iran because the us and israel have one perspective and other countries have very different perspective. you, and you have told me your independence, you can perhaps clear up some of these questions for me. is iran, in yourview, closer or further from developing a nuclear weapon today than it was at the beginning of the donald trump administration in january 2017? the question does not lend itself to a yes or no... why not? you have different metrics, stephen. if you're metric is how much nuclear material, in this case

and reached uranium, you have, you may draw the conclusion that they have more material than they had not at the beginning of the trump administration but when it is administration but when it is administration decided to leave the agreement which was only in march 2018 stop —— and reached uranium. since then iran by way of... they started to enrich more. again, to complicate things further, if you compare that to the amount they had when the agreement was signed, they had considerably less. so sometimes this metric can confound and confuse people. what i can tell you is that we are there to prove and to check

that iran does not get a nuclear weapon. you are saying that iran now has up to ten times the amount of enriched uranium that is supposed to be admitted... not quite, a little bit less... let's not fall out over eight or nine or ten times. the fact is, a lot more thanit times. the fact is, a lot more than it is supposed to have. but i tell you who is not reading about it, the israelis and donald trump are not grinning. it is imperative that the european powers pulled out of what remains of the jc the european powers pulled out of what remains of thejc p0, the international agreement and follow suit with the us and impose new tough sanctions iran on. you said in vienna on the iaea and you presumably have to ta ke iaea and you presumably have to take some sort of view on these, who is right and who is

wrong? we are not a party to this treaty, you have to understand. we are not a party to this arrangement or agreement. which is why i'm interested in your answer because you do not have a dog in the fight. exactly, this is why we verify and when they do not allow us to do ourjob we say it out loud and we demand the access that is needed to prevent this situation, to degrade itself into a point of no return. i question still remains, when you hear this debate about whether what the iranians have done in the last couple of years represents action and activity, which must lead to the wider international community following the us and re— imposing tough sanctions, your view, your opinion, re— imposing tough sanctions, yourview, your opinion, is what? our opinion is indispensable because we tell

the world.... but substantively, what is your opinion? given what you see in iran, the only way of addressing this acquisition of enriched uranium and what the iranians are doing, is to declare that the jpc oh iranians are doing, is to declare that thejpc oh dead and impose wider tough sanctions. that is not up for me to say, frankly speaking. and i go back to yourfirst comments, it is an essential quality that i must preserve, i must be neutral. as i said to the iranians into the world when i came to this position, i will be firm with them, but fair, soi will be firm with them, but fair, so i cannot start taking political sides and say that jpc oh is good or bad, sanctions, yes or no, we provide with a mutual technical assessment that allows

eventually those world powers to come to those right decisions. but you know what, rafael grossi, because it gets to the heart that whether multilateral institutions like yours multilateral institutions like youi’s can multilateral institutions like yours can function in the 21st century well because on the one hand the americans are saying is that what the iranians are doing is outrageous than anyone he still backs the international agreement and does not impose sanctions, is, to quote the secretary of state mike pompeo, choosing to side with the ayatollah, this is the american position. 0n the other hand, you have the chinese and russians, saying absolutely no way, we will dash us we will not countenance imposition of sanctions and if the iaea dared to suggest there is problems with iran that suggest the americans are right, then they will withdraw support from you. you are caught in the middle. you are caught in the middle. you are caught in the middle. you are in a desperate squeeze. iam caught

you are in a desperate squeeze. i am caught between a rock and a hard place but this comes with myjob and what we need to do is continue to provide the exact, the exact snapshot of what is going on and this is the foundation of any, any decision. people will know, the international community will know, when they are not observing their commitments all when they are not allowing the iaea to work and operate. then there are political persuasions and opinions. you have the democrats, you have the republicans, you have the europeans, everybody comes to me and says what they want. my job is to be in between, not more and less. but are all sides attempting to undermine your credibility and therefore, frankly.... your credibility and therefore, frankly. . .. that will always happen, of course, that will happen. sometimes, this year, this year is very nice because it provides you with a scientific example of what happens. in the beginning of the year, when i was not

getting the access to dislocations and i was reporting to the iaea what was going on, i was being described asa going on, i was being described as a sheriff and many other things, so i was tough. now i have an agreement and you yourself are telling me that yourself are telling me that you have the best relation that could ever be. so, you know, i'm used to this and i think it's only normal and in a way ina it's only normal and in a way in a paradoxical way is a good indication we're doing just what we need to do. moving on from iran you have another lot of big problems in your in tray, let's talk briefly on north korea, you don't have people there, they were kicked out a few years ago. that's a shame, that they shame. donald trump has pursued the diplomatic process with the north koreans, apparently believing that ultimately it can lead to the denuclearisation in weapons terms of north korea. do you believe that because many think thatis believe that because many think that is pie in the sky? well,

you know, with north korea, we have known before, as with the iranians, it is a long process and we have had successes and failures. the iaea, the international community, the inspectors, we were kicked out of the dprk back into 2009, go figure, 11 years without an international presence there. we have some idea of what is going on. what is clear is that we will only be able to return there and start inspecting once some political understanding is there. there were some in the past, which failed, and the latest is the one that the united states and north korea, bilaterally, have been trying to attempt. from what i know, from secretary mike pompeo and the us government, this is a

process that continues and i am hopeful and believe it has to succeed and when it does, we will be ready to go back and to go back to a more different and more complicated, i would say dprk because whereas in the past activity was quite limited and now they are a nuclear power state. typically, i need a brief statement on this comical satellite imaging suggest to you that they are still in it determinedly pursuing their weapons programme, trying to develop more sophisticated weapons, miniaturising them. yes, yes. thank you for that. very specifically, saudi arabia, how worried are you in the investment in enlarging their nuclear programme and seeking out and using the help of china ina very out and using the help of china in a very big way. does it worry you because some people think that could be very alarming? year, there has been some speculation in the press.

the realities and yet again we tell things as they are and not on the basis of speculation. the reality is that the kingdom of saudi arabia has very limited nuclear activity. very limited. they have some research activities. they have now bought a low—power research reactor, very small, they don't even have it yet. and there have been, and i suppose you are referring to that, there have been some press articles indicating that they might have some cooperation with other countries on uranium mining. we don't have any concrete indication of that. we are in conversation with saudi arabia to make sure that when they upgrade, they are, their nuclear programme, which as i said is embryonic, we will be ramping up our safeguards and activities there. i'm not

particularly worried but i am following actively. interesting. a final thought, one of your big ideas when he took over the iaea, seems to me took over the iaea, seems to me to have been stressed to the world that you want to see much more expansion and development of civil and nuclear power because you think it's part of the decarbonisation climate change solution. it is. you say that confidently but how can he say that when all the stuff we have said today, suggest there is such a very difficult grey area where countries expand their nuclear programmes. . .. not at all. not only does the world run a risk, hang on... not only does oppose horribly a danger to nuclear proliferation in the long run but it's a safety issue because we all know what happened at fukushima, it is a cost issue, because it is extraordinarily expensive in capital terms and he was telling the world that we have to ramp up it will nuclear production. no, no, no.

all i am saying is that nuclear has a place at the table. it is clear that for many countries, 31 of them, including the united kingdom, and many others, have either mixed nuclear power and it's clear that we have a huge challenge in terms of climate change. to say that a source of energy, which is basically clean, which is saving us from two gigatons a year of emissions does not have a place in a successful mix to decarbonise the economy, is simply technically incorrect. then countries can decide whether they go for it or not. the iaea is there to make sure that nuclear material which is used to generate electricity, to cure people for the benefit of the many, is going to be done in the right, in the right way. all right,

rafael grossi, fascinating talking to you. thank you very much forjoining on hardtalk. thank you very much. it has been a pleasure. hello. cooler weather on the way. that, of course, most noticeable where the past couple of days have been so hot and also along some north sea coast, eastern scotland, north—east england with more of an onshore breeze for a stunner of a tuesday. it will feel much cooler during wednesday. and the reason — we're losing high pressure that brought the warmth up from the south, replacing it with another area of high pressure, the flow of air around that coming from a cooler direction in the north—east into some of the north sea coasts during wednesday, and also, this weather front moving south with cloud and not a huge amount of rain.

before that completes its journey south, rather warm start for many of us on wednesday morning and it will feel cooler by thursday morning. from that weather front, cloud and a few spots of light rain and drizzle, parts of scotland, northern england, maybe northern ireland pushing further south during the day, taking some cloud to the north and east of wales, the midlands and east anglia later on. south of that, south wales and southern england seeing some sunshine, just a slight chance of a shower in south—east england. northern scotland with sunny spells and temperatures in the mid teens here, and for some on the north sea coasts. the further south you are, some warmth into the mid—20s, but that temperature still isn't as high as it has been in the past couple of days. now, overnight and into thursday, some areas of cloud, patches of mist and fog and maybe some low clouds and mistiness running down the north sea coasts to start the day. on thursday, there will be a cooler night. more of us seeing temperatures dipping down into single figures. now, on thursday, it is high pressure replacing high pressure, still a lot of settled weather around. still a good deal of sunshine,

particularly into england and wales. sunny spells through the cloud across most of scotland and northern ireland, we could see some rain in the western isles and temperatures are much closer to average for the time of year. still a little bit above, though. quite a keen and noticeable easterly breeze blowing across southern parts of the uk in particular. whilst many on friday hold onto the sunshine as the weather front moves into scotland and approaching northern ireland, some thicker cloud and you may see a bit of rain that does not appear to amount to very much. looking into the weekend, high pressure holding on for many of us, so an area of low pressure throwing up this weather front and maybe a few showers that way later on in the weekend. but for most over the weekend, it is looking dry, variable cloud and some sunny spells, and brisk easterly breeze to the south and a growing chance of picking up a shower, particularly into parts of england by sunday.

this is bbc news, with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. i'm sally bundock: another warning over britain's brexit plans — undermine the good friday agreement and there'll be no us trade deal. coronavirus infections in india pass five million — the second worst—hit country in the world. the family of breonna taylor, killed by police in kentucky, agree a multi—million dollar settlement. and — easy—peasy — why this common—or—garden vegetable could help replace environment—damaging microplastics.