says the government has lost control of events. also today, from the rule of six to the rule of law as brexit reappears in british politics. the northern ireland secretary brandon lewis admitted the new internal markets bill will break international law. this prompted criticism from all five living former prime ministers and the man who might be the next president of the us. a compromise is now in the air but was the scale of the row deliberate or wise? with me to discuss all this are polly toynbee of the guardian and portuguese writer eunice goes. and here in the studio my colleague, clive myrie. lovely to see you all, thanks very much forjoining us. it feels like another pivotal moment on the covid front. as infections rise again everyone is asking what is the government strategy and will it act fast enough this time? will tighter restrictions come in just as the furlough scheme is due to end? will it have to be extended?

a lot of questions ahead at a crunch moment. polly toynbee, it has been quite a week and quite a dramatic change in tone from the government in the last couple of days. it certainly has. i think people feel that they have been on a roller—coaster with this government, changing their mind and their advice all the time. it is quite understandable in a way because obviously from a day to day, the situation changes how fast the infection arises, but we always knew, the government always knew and said and warned that a second wave would come at. we always could see gci’oss would come at. we always could see across the channel that in spain, it has been rampant again for quite a while. it would be bound to be coming this way. but there is attitude of mind in our government that says we are an island, we are different. it will not come here. which is what happened the first time round and right we were so unprepared. seems to have been a bit about this time, because it is

sending people out to restaurants and pubs and urging people to go back to their offices just as it was about to hit again. and now of course they are talking about clamping down on large parts of the country, possibly the whole country again ina country, possibly the whole country again in a few weeks‘ time. so i think it has left the people are very confused and rather angry. and eunice goes, it was striking i think to see lockdown at being lifted at the start of the summer by many governments across the world, certainly in europe, probably driven by economic concerns, and ijust wonder whether actually that was just too much lifting too fast given eve ryo ne just too much lifting too fast given everyone was trying to prioritise schools returning in the autumn? i'm not sure if the question is really one about lifting too fast and too much at a time, because we have seen countries in particular, south korea and taiwan, who had very little, very light lockdown, if any lockdown

at all, because what they had in place were really robust test and tracing systems and that has enabled those countries to have very low death rates and infection rates and keep their economies are going. and this i think has been missing particularly in the uk, the test and tracing system is in complete chaos. the government has spent liens in awarding contracts to private companies to run the test and tracing system and it has actually enabled to process all the tests that are being conducted, let alone provide enough tests the population. —— spent millions. it is a government that seems concerned with the economy into a large extent seems to prioritise saving the economy over saving lives. so that calls for debate again. but in reality, they have not really put the resources in place to save the economy and to save lives. and clive, there are questions obviously from the beginning about making

international comparisons and trying to work out which countries were implementing best practice. you have travelled the globe, how much comparison is it fair to make given sizes of population, behaviour, culture ? sizes of population, behaviour, culture? it is difficult to you look ata culture? it is difficult to you look at a country like new zealand, relatively remote, an island nation, small, low population, you could say that those things played to its advantage, but new zealand instituted a travel ban on february the 3rd. this was before they had a single case of covid—19 in the country. as soon as they got around about 50, 100 cases i think, they had a nationwide lockdown. they acted quickly and they acted sure footed lee. if you looked country like sweden, much bigger population, nowhere near as big as the uk, but then they decided not to have a nationwide lockdown and instead had social distancing rules, that kind of thing, kept the school is open,

businesses open and they had a high mortality rate at the beginning, but in comparison it now to other countries, that mortality rate is looking fairly good. so you have two comparison that with two very different countries which chose a different countries which chose a different ways of approaching this and it seems to have worked. i think what the problem has been for the united kingdom, for other countries in europe and particularly the united states is that they are trying to have their cake and eat it as it were. try to lockdown and to then open up again and then they are going to have to lockdown again at. there has been a lack of consistency in messaging, but i think that point about testing is crucial. the who made that point at the beginning of this pandemic, test, test, test. and frankly, while the government has to be given credit for the way it has managed to build up the testing regime in this country pretty much from zero, it has not gone anywhere near far from zero, it has not gone anywhere nearfarenough and from zero, it has not gone anywhere near far enough and that is probably why we are in the problems we have at the moment. sorry, it wasjust

very striking that dido harding and neil ferguson today on radio was saying they were not expecting this a surge in demand for tests, which seems astonishing given that schools are going back and there will be the usual cough and colds and parents will be worried. of course, ridiculous, of course we knew once people go back to school or and pupils would need a lot of test, because of any child gets a cough or cold or flu, then because of any child gets a cough or cold orflu, then the because of any child gets a cough or cold or flu, then the whole is on alert and of course everybody has been at near that child will need to been at near that child will need to be tested. it was blindingly obvious, but i would like to go back to something clive said about how countries have done it well and badly in different ways, very often it according to their culture. this country is a particular reason why it is almost the worst in europe for deaths and almost the worst in terms of the economic hits and unemployment hit we have taken. the reason is that we have had a decade

of appalling austerity that has absolutely shredded our public health system and all of our systems, our health system has had the least increases in funds in the last decade since it was founded in 1948. our public health system has been absolutely decimated because it has been put in the hands of local authorities who have had 40% of the funds ta ken away. authorities who have had 40% of the funds taken away. this virus could not have hit this country at any time when the public sector, the public services that we rely on, have been so weak. as a result, as eunice was saying, turning to private sector companies at the last minute to hope that they cannot fix it for us at. the countries that have done well have very strong public services. of course, those who would defend the government would say, hang on, you‘ve got to ta ke would say, hang on, you‘ve got to take a longer view on the death toll numbers, because for example, look at sweden‘s numbers now, they do seem to be better than some of the other comparators. of course, the

key question of whether you have immunity and how long that lasts will also determine the longer term view on this. i think the big problem has to do with the lack of clarity in terms of the government policies, for example rules on social distancing, wearing masks, there is no enforcement of those rules. this is quite important to keep these rules enforced if we want to ensure the safety of the population. the testing of herd immunity. i think that is quite a dangerous idea. especially because covid is a disease that we know very little about and even relying on a vaccine, still quite a few months away from being offered to the population, to bet on that to have it soon, it is very risky. it is risking the health of the population, it is risking as well the economy. it looks like the

piecemeal response of the british government to all of this has been found wanting and it is not working. so we need more transparency, clarity as well and definitely far more robust test and tracing system. all governments are up against the most phenomenal challenges that no one has faced in a generation, clive. i just wondered one has faced in a generation, clive. ijust wondered also in terms of culture, you speak to people in east asia, japan for example, when they say there is this culture of mask wearing and there has been for yea rs, mask wearing and there has been for years, because people have that sense of what we are protecting other people in society. you go to india, there is much more of a sense of society. the west had developed much more and individualistic culture, freedom to go and drink if you want to whenever you want to, how much of that is playing into government responses?” how much of that is playing into government responses? i think that is part of the argument, particularly in the us where you have seen are people willing to take out their guns have seen are people willing to take out theirguns and have seen are people willing to take out their guns and go down and demonstrate in front of local

authority estate houses and so on, against a lockdown measures and local restrictions and so forth, they forth, they believe they should have the right not to wear a mask as well as to wear a mask if a local authority says they should. i think in the united kingdom, at the beginning of the pandemic, certainly backin beginning of the pandemic, certainly back in march, april, there was a unity among the majority of the population that these restrictions where necessary in order to save lives. i suspect however that has begun to fracture as the consequences of begun to fracture as the consequences of the economy has takena consequences of the economy has taken a hold, people have lost their jobs, the furlough scheme is coming to an end, and people are thinking i need to start protecting not only my mental well being also my bank account as well and perhaps we need to open up a lot more quickly. but there are covid idiots out there, there are covid idiots out there, there is no question about that much that you get on the tube here in london and there are people who are not wearing masks, people who are not wearing masks, people who are not social distancing. there is one

super spreader in bolton responsible for over 200 cases, asymptomatic, diagnosed, supposed to self—isolate, he does not and goes on a pub crawl. these are instances of people who are not taking the rules seriously enough andl are not taking the rules seriously enough and i suspect over the summer a lot of people felt i am making my contribution, i have done it now, i wa nt contribution, i have done it now, i want the government to open up so i can get my money back. well, covid has blasted everything out of the water in so many ways but brexit is now back on the agenda. time is running short for britain and the eu to secure a trade deal that both sides say they want. this week the british government said it was prepared to undo those parts of the withdrawal agreement that it negotiated, to protect, as they might put it, the integrity of the uk along with the irish border. it‘s all prompted the resignations of government lawyers and in her role as a government envoy, amal clooney. is too much government energy, time, focus being taken up with a political bomb they set off?

how has this appeared do you think to our continental neighbours, the whole shenanigans over this new law? i think everyone is baffled, shocked, this was not the expected behaviour of the british government. over almost five decades in the eu, britain gave the reputation of being a tough negotiator during treaties at precisely because everybody knew that britain was being tough because britain would respect what had been agreed. so the tearing up of the withdrawal agreement was something seen as completely unexpected and i think it will have a huge reputational damage to united kingdom. isn't it perhapsjust a negotiating tactic as the talks draw toa negotiating tactic as the talks draw to a crunch point? possibly, better it is like throwing a nuclear bomb into a negotiating tactic. this is

the country that always says it gold—plated any european rules and regulations. we were the law—abiding and accused other people of fudging the edges. this is the first time i think in our lifetime that we have seen a british government minister stand up in the house of commons and declared they are now going to break international law. we are the ones who have always to try to halt other countries around the world to international agreements. it is really shocking. —— try to hold other countries. because although borisjohnson won a stupendous victory only last december, he had a sizeable rebellion, enough of a rebellion to make them feel they had to stand back. so they fudged together a bit of a compromise and said we will pass that law, but will will not actually use it without another vote in the house of commons, but brussels is saying, thatis commons, but brussels is saying, that is not enough. that is still breaking the treaty, you cannot pass a law which allows you to break a treaty unilaterally. in that treaty

it says if there is any future disagreements, we sit down together and have an arbitration. the suspicion here is that borisjohnson very much wanted to bring back brexit into the argument to try and cover the extraordinary rim states that the government made over covid. brexit is what got him elected and it is where he won seats of labour, it is where he won seats of labour, it is where he won seats of labour, it is his trump card and i think he is trying to pretend that to the news and cover up is trying to pretend that to the news and cover up covid, but it is just multiplied the mess the government is in. certainly, clive, it has caused some consternation and upset even amongst the conservative benchis upset even amongst the conservative bench is politically, people asking about boris johnson‘s focus, the focus of the government, that judgment had a time where everybody wa nts to judgment had a time where everybody wants to be focused on getting brexit done and sorting out the pandemic challenges. how damaging to the field to you when you havejoe biden tweeting about uk government policy? that is something that has to be remembered, one of the

important points that the brexiteers put forward about the case for leaving the eu was that we will be able to get all these great trade deals outside and one of them, one of the most important, would be with the united states, and it is the house of congress that has turned rubber—stamp on any trade deal. if a future resident, particularly joe biden in this case, if he is not on board with an agreement hammered out between the european union and the uk, because of the complexities of the northern ireland and good friday agreement, then he is not going to ratify that. congress is not going to rectify that, it will not be signed. so that it is an important point which had to be made and has in the minds of all the negotiators involved in this, but i think the british position hasn't been helped by the shifting explanation of what the effects of the internal markets built might be. it will not break

international law, then it will break it, then it might make it but only a little bit, then it is our right to do this as sovereign nation, then it is the european's fault that we are having to potentially break international law. i think the problem here potentially break international law. ithink the problem here is potentially break international law. i think the problem here is that the british negotiators expected or hoped that they would get eight canada hoped that they would get eight ca na da style hoped that they would get eight canada style free trade agreement, but one has to ask the question, why would the european union allow a rival on its doorstep that could undercut the integrity of the single market? why would any entity allow that to happen? as a result, it seems, potentially, that britain has understood it is not going to get the deal it wanted, the deal it hoped, it is therefore perhaps looking to a no deal and as a result it is looking for someone to blame. that seems to be the reason and the explanation for all this that is going on and it is not doing the british side and a good. are poly, reportedly michael gove is very keen

on getting a deal, still thinks it is possible. have to remember the conservatives are still doing well in the polls compared to their labour rivals. keir starmer is making his speech in a party conference this week as labour puts forward its idea to the nation, albeit in a virtual way, virtual forum. politically we have to remember that the conservatives still have a 80 seat majority. they have an 80 seat majority but it turns out to feel a lot less secure than they thought, that this rebellion that happened this week was extraordinary and enough to make them have to u—turn yet again. and they have another side of the tory party who are the extreme libertarians who are very angry with any lockdown restrictions at all. so they have two sides of the party in a state of fury. so even 80 seats does not feel quite as comfortable as it did. also, borisjohnson won his amazing electoral victory 26 points ahead. now it is only a point

oi’ points ahead. now it is only a point or two. keir starmer, the new labour leader, who had then been in power a few months, is now ahead of boris johnson in terms of who would be best to run the country. keir starmer comes across, as he was director of public prosecutions, is it formidable, serious prosecutor of all of the government‘s failings and it is an interesting time at. we have a four years to go to the next election, not a lot is going to happen between now and then as i do not think anyone in their right mind could predict where this is going vertically, but the labour party has transformed itself in these a few months since keir starmer took over. it has been the end of the far left regime ofjeremy corbyn. and the arrival of a new bra sober serious, unshowy, solemn labour front arrival of a new bra sober serious, unshowy, solemn labourfront bench.

—— new sober, serious. unshowy, solemn labourfront bench. -- new sober, serious. with a stronger labour opposition, boris johnson looking troubled by the immense challenges he is facing. how does that play in europe as they look at a country here facing this brexit challenge at the end of the year? as the brexit negotiations are nearing its end because of the transition period is reaching its end at the end of the year, the euro is essentially not paying any or not much attention to electoral charismatics and so on. —— europe is essentially not paying. they do not ca re really essentially not paying. they do not care really the size and the shape of the debates, the majority of borisjohnson, but it they of the debates, the majority of boris johnson, but it they are looking ahead. they have other problems and are looking ahead and looking towards the future relationship with britain and that

is something that should focus the minds of the government because they are negotiating with the eu 27, not with the house of commons, not with the conservative party. or the daily mail. and they should not focus too much on opinion poll and they should focus on far more on what is at sta ke, focus on far more on what is at stake, because the future economy and the future of the united kingdom is going to suffer tremendously if britain negotiates or leaves the european union with a bad deal, so if it negotiates a bad deal or leaves without a deal. much more on brexit inevitably in the coming days. brexit and covid are both eating up political time here but there is so much else to watch out for. what else has caught your interest this week? polly, what has not caught enough attention as it should have? i'm afraid it is related, but itjust so

happens a story that i had come across. i asked yesterday the headmasters office of eton college, possibly one of the most famous schools in the world, and he confirmed that every pupil and every teacher in eton college have had tests. meanwhile, in the rest of the country, four out of five schools have had to send children home because they cannot get tests because they cannot get tests because teachers cannot get tests. children are going home again. this for us is a really resonant thing about the state of inequality in this country, which is extreme it co m pa res this country, which is extreme it compares with most other european countries, closer to america than europe in terms of our inequality. this is just an emotional issue where parents are desperate to get their children back to school and look across at eton buying a private tests that no one else can get, creating and reminding people of the great inequality of life in britain.

of course, yes, the private testing system is available most of it is interesting to note whether the nhs can use some of that capacity. units, what story has caught your attention? the president of the european commission has made quite a wide speech on the priorities of the european union and one of those was about reforming regulation, which essentially regulates european asylu m essentially regulates european asylum or refugee legislation. we have known and we have been witnessing for years the shame of europe ina witnessing for years the shame of europe in a way that it has managed the refugee crisis and the way that refugees and asylum seekers coming from the middle east, and i hope she is faithful to that work and that europe builds up a humane and law—abiding asylum system for the future. still highly controversial

and captured headlines daily. clive? that breaking story over the night for ruth bader ginsburg who has died and was suffering from pancreatic cancer for a while, but this is going to add another frisson to the us presidential election if another frisson was needed. donald trump is not going to be able to go to his base and those republicans who were potentially leaning towards joe biden saying there is a vacancy on the court and you need to put me backin the court and you need to put me back in office. —— donald trump is i'iow back in office. —— donald trump is now going to be able to. it could buy the same time galvanise liberals as well who potentially see a right leading supreme court getting rid of more environmental restrictions, getting rid of abortion rights and so on getting rid of abortion rights and so on and so forth. sol getting rid of abortion rights and so on and so forth. so i think this is going to be a titanic battle leading up to the election on november the 3rd and when president barack obama had a death from a supreme court justice just before

the election in 2016, this was in fabry 2016, that congress and the senate refused to hear the approach for his nominee for that seat. the leader of the senate medically it was too close to the election, the action had to go through. you have those same republicans are now saying there should be a hearing in order to fill that seat. so it is going to be titanic. absolute, it is going to be titanic. absolute, it is going to be fascinating, i do not know if you will out to cover the fa ct know if you will out to cover the fact that i know we‘ll all be desperate to keep an eye on it. that‘s it for dateline london for this week. we‘re back next week at the same time. thanks so much to my guests, eunice goes, polly toynbee and clive myrie. shaun is here next week. bye for now, thanks for being with us.

hello, there. there will continue to be a lot of dry and sunny weather throughout the rest of the weekend. yes, it is still quite breezy in southern areas, gusts of winds at 30, 35 miles per hour so that is tempering the field. actually, at the moment we also have more cloud being pulled into sunny areas around this area of low pressure, so that will mean hazier sunshine, in fact some thicker cloud across southern counties in particular throughout the rest of the day, which may also give the odd shower. the odd heavy shower, too. further north we have the misty low cloud rolling in off the north sea. so it is likely that the heavy showers, across the southern coastal counties of england, the channel islands,

is going to be heavy and thundery as well. it is still warm despite the breeze. that is the steady breeze, the gusts are higher than that. further north, the winds are not such a feature, plenty of sunshine, feeling warm in northern ireland, across northern include, but there is increasing chance on tour throughout the rest of the day and the misty low cloud and fog around the north and western isles will continue as well. the mist and cloud will take awhile burn back, but otherwise dry weather. again, you can see high teens turn low to mid 20s which continues into monday as well. we have that low cloud to clear away in southern areas first thing. we have a switch on wind direction to the south—westerly and remain for the

north and the rest of the uk, but again for many, with sunny skies once again, monday continues to warm up. but then, monday night into tuesday, that‘s low pressure, that weather system and when the fed sta rts weather system and when the fed starts to take shape. when the weather, wetter weather and behind that weather front it will turn much cooler and it will start to feel more like autumn. temperatures are going to tumble away from what we are seeing this weekend and then with it, the more unsettled weather will arrive. as ever, we will keep you posted and there is more on our website. goodbye.

this is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. tributes are paid as the pioneering us supreme court judge and champion of women‘s rights — ruth bader ginsburg — dies at the age of 87. resident trump is expected to nominate a conservative replacement as soon as possible. borisjohnson is holding urgent talks this weekend — to decide whether to impose lockdown restrictions on the whole of england. local lockdown restrictions come into force in some parts of the uk — with bars and restaurants closing early. i think people are going to go out during the day instead of going out at night. it is good because it is saving peoples lives, bad because it is impacting on my night out. more than 800,000 people living in the spanish capital madrid will go into lockdown —

after a surge in the number