joining me this morning is the shadow foreign secretary, lisa nandy and the bbc‘s chief political correspondent, vicki young. so keir starmer arrived at an empty hall in doncaster a few minutes ago. "take another look at labour", keir starmer will say, but can he persuade voters who turned away from the party in droves just a few months ago

to return to the fold? and with our lives dominated by corononavirus, how hard will it be for him to be heard? asi as i say, lisa nandy will bejoining us as i say, lisa nandy will bejoining us in as i say, lisa nandy will bejoining usina as i say, lisa nandy will bejoining us in a few moments. before we talk to her, what are we expecting from keir starmer in the speech? it's very early in the morning and these are strange times we are living in and there will be no delegates there, physically listening to him. he is going to give this speech in doncaster and there is a reason for that. that's right. he wants to get away from london, and he wants to go to parts of the country where labour turned their back on him and jeremy corbyn. let's face it, it's not going to be subtle. you might as well have put up a big label behind him saying i am notjeremy corbyn, talking about new leadership, have another look at us and he feels he

has to distance himself from jeremy corbyn‘s leadership and that is what this speech will try to do. people talk about security, patriotism, the country he loves and there are many who feel in the labour party that jeremy corbyn was on the wrong side of the argument and sometimes sided with britain's enemies, as they see it, so they think they have to repair that damage and there will be an awful lot of that but the strategy here is to introduce people to keir starmerfor the strategy here is to introduce people to keir starmer for the first time. our lives are dominated by a coronavirus and it is hard to get heard for him and people who have heard for him and people who have heard of him might think of him and know him as one of the leading voices in parliament calling for a second brexit referendum and i don't think he will say anything on that subject. he has been quite silent about the issue of brexit since he became leader. lisa nandy is here and welcome. some of what he is going to say has been briefed to the media and he will issue a direct message to people in doncaster,

grimsby, stoke and elsewhere to say ta ke grimsby, stoke and elsewhere to say take another look at labour, we are under new leadership and we love this country, as you do. did the labour party underjeremy corbyn not love this country? you only have to look at the election result in december to see not just look at the election result in december to see notjust under jeremy corbyn but also the last decade, people have been feeling in places like doncaster that labour is moving away from them, not that they have left labour, but we have left them and we have not really spoken to the priorities they have in their lives. that is why keir starmer will say today that putting people's security front and centre of the political agenda will be his priority and i think that is what people need to hear from the labour party. that is clear from the election result, but it is this focus, relentless focus on spelling out patriotism and his patriotism, particularly keir starmer. we are under loo leadership and we love this country. the —— new leadership. it is clear that labour did not love

this country under the old leadership. let me give you a clear example of where we got it badly wrong and that was where there was a chemical weapons attack on the streets of the uk and the immediate response from the labour party was to question whether russia was behind the attack. we very quickly corrected that but the damage was done and i've said before that we got that wrong and people need to know the first duty of any government is to put them first and keep them safe and that's one of the things that he will talk about today. in your mind, jeremy corbyn did not love his country, or it certainly appeared that way? i'm sure that's not right thatjeremy did not love his country but it was certainly felt by many people, including those i represent, that labour was not speaking directly to the priorities that people have. people need to know their government will go into bat for them and stand up will go into bat for them and stand up forthem and will go into bat for them and stand up for them and so many people in this country are worried about the prospects for their children, grandchildren. we have people, including me, worried about elderly

parents during this pandemic about the ve day generation growing old in ca re the ve day generation growing old in care homes and keir starmer will say today that we can do better for that generation we could be more ambitious for this country. it is quite startling though that the leader of the opposition does have to spell this out in the way that keir starmer and the way you are articulating. hasn't every previous labour leader love this country quest markets a basic prerequisite for thejob. quest markets a basic prerequisite for the job. i think that is what he will say today and it was a wake—up call, the election result in decemberand call, the election result in december and the country needs to know that we are listening. we have heard them and we will respond to the fact that they told us that they need labour to change. we have a change. we are united, we are more self—confident are more interested in the country than internal battles and we will pull together and provide notjust in opposition to this government but a real alternative. so why is the message directly put to the voters in doncaster, grimsby and stoke, and the former mp for stoke—on—trent

will be introducing keir starmer. she lost her seat at the election along with many others and said the action on anti—semitism turned labour into the nasty party. people like ruth who felt like a constituent level labour had got it wrong, including anti—semitism, they are the sort of people we need to ring back. it's notjust doncaster and grimsby. it's those post—industrial areas that i care about deeply. it scotland, the south of england where we lost seats in 2010 and 2015. we have to win people backin 2010 and 2015. we have to win people back in every nation. i have to drop you because we are showing ruth smee but there is her introducing keir starmer who we will hear from in a moment. but winning people back, saying it is one thing, but doing it as another. this is all rhetoric, so what is the action going to be? we wa nt what is the action going to be? we want people's boats and we have to go out and ask for them and you have

to convince them you have changed —— peoples votes. keir starmer is in doncaster and will be in the house of commons later to respond to the covid—19 statement but he is in doncaster to show people that instead of sitting in westminster or whitehall, dictating to people what we think the priorities in their lives ought to be, as labour leader he will get out into those communities, listen to concerns and act on them and will invest in public services and support people and use their money wisely and we won't spend what we can't afford. we will put their security right at the heart of our mission. and of course we willjudge you on the actions and principles that you are outlining. we can show you pictures of members of the cabinet arriving at the cobra meeting this morning, because everybody‘s focuses very much on coronavirus following the briefing yesterday from chris whitty and patrick vallance. those pictures will be appearing soon. labour is going to back the prime minister in

whatever action he takes. we are certainly not going to contradict advice that is based on the scientific and medical evidence is presented yesterday. we want to hear more from the prime minister about why he is doing certain things. the 10pm curfew in pubs, bars and restaurants has been happening in bolton, next to wigan, for several weeks and it hasn't brought infection rates down, so we want to know is it because the infection is being spread in pubs, or households or workplaces, what action is the government going to take to do that? we want much more clarity about why, notjust we want much more clarity about why, not just what, so we want much more clarity about why, notjust what, so people understand why they are being asked to do difficult things. on the face of what we have heard about the iopm cu rfew what we have heard about the iopm curfew and table service and hospitality venues, will it work, will it be enough or would you like to see more in the way of restrictions? i can't imagine it will be enough given how stark the evidence was presented yesterday particularly because in nearby bolton, next to wigan, we've had the measures in place for a couple of weeks on the infection rates are

still rising. people might be surprised on the basis of what they heard yesterday, and there has been some dispute about the predictions from the two scientists in terms of the rate of infection or the increase in cases doubling every seven days. are we going to hear more thanjust seven days. are we going to hear more than just a iopm curfew on pubs, bars and restaurants? that is the indication we are getting and if you think back to what chris whitty said yesterday, he talked specifically about breaking the household links and the transmission that way. here is keir starmer. thank you for paying me the huge armour of introducing me today. i know how hard the last two years have been for you and you exemplify the values i want the labour party to stand for. thank you for everything you have done and will continue to do for this party. i'm delighted that we are here in doncaster stop my wife's mum was born and grew appeared next to the we are regulars here, visiting

family friends, but also to go to the ledger. sadly not this year. i'm also told that this is the first labour leader's beach in yorkshire since harold wilson in 1967. —— speech. the circumstances were different then. for one thing, wilson was able to update conference about labour‘s achievements after three years in government, so i look forward to coming back one day in the same circumstances that brought wilson here. let me start with a heartfelt thanks to the labour party staff and volunteers who have moved a virtual heaven and earth this week, to all the speakers, the panellists and the thousands of members who took part. i also want to say thank you to labour party members, supporters and affiliates. for putting your faith in members, supporters and affiliates. for putting yourfaith in me members, supporters and affiliates. for putting your faith in me to members, supporters and affiliates. for putting yourfaith in me to be your new leader. when you grow up in a small town in surrey, you rarely

thank your parents for naming you keir. and when as a teenager i became the fourth member of the east surrey young socialist it did not seem likely that one day i would stand before you as the second keir to be labour leader. but i am. and it is the honour of my lifetime to lead this great movement. these are extraordinary times. the warnings yesterday from the government's advisers were stark. they cannot be ignored. labour, ata advisers were stark. they cannot be ignored. labour, at a time like this, will act in the national interest. we will be a constructive opposition. we will support whatever reasonable steps are necessary to protect lives and protect our nhs. but i also want to say this. there should be nothing inevitable about a second lockdown. it would be a sign

of government failure, not an act of god. it would take an immense toll on people's physical and mental health. and on the economy. we need a national effort to prevent a national lockdown. the prime minister has had months to prepare for this. but instead of getting a grip, the government lost control. our testing system collapsed just when we needed it most. the british people want the government to succeed in fighting this virus. we all need the government to succeed. this is the time for leadership. today, i want to set out how my leadership of this party and in time, i hope, my leadership of this country will be defined by the values i have held dear all my life, by the instincts, the beliefs that have inspired me to become a lawyer,

fighting forjustice, to become the director of public prosecutions and into labour party politics. the thread that runs through my life and the belief that will inspire my leadership of this party is the desire to change lives for the better, the desire to make a difference to my country. this is a country that has given me so much. i am thankful to the national health service that cared for my mum for much of her life. for the chance to be the first in my family to go to university. to go on to practice the law, to have the privilege of leading the crown prosecution service, to be able to give my pa rents service, to be able to give my parents what they said was one of the proudest moments in their lives, to be there with me at buckingham palace when i was awarded a

knighthood for services to criminal justice. family values mean the world to me. i was lucky enough to grow up in a loving family, and i had the great joy grow up in a loving family, and i had the greatjoy of a family of my own. the mission of the labour party i lead is to extend that same opportunity to everyone. and my vision for britain is simple. i want this to be the best country to grow up this to be the best country to grow up in and the best country to grow old in. a country in which we put family first, a country that embodies the values i hold dear. decency, fairness, opportunity, compassion and security. security for our nation, our families compassion and security. security for our nation, ourfamilies and compassion and security. security for our nation, our families and for all of our communities. sadly, we don't have a government

that has such high standards. i'm hugely ambitious for this country. i think britain has so much yet to achieve and it angers me that this government is holding us back. i have tried to be constructive. i appreciate that these are unprecedented times. and governing is hard. i've tried to be fair. to give the government of the doubt. but now, with one of the highest death rates in the world, on the threshold of one of the deepest recessions anywhere, i'm afraid there is no doubt this government's incompetence is holding britain back. they couldn't get kids back to school in june. back. they couldn't get kids back to school injune. they couldn't work out a school injune. they couldn't work outafair school injune. they couldn't work out a fair system to get exams marked. they couldn't get a protective equipment to care workers and wasted millions of your money in the process. theirfailure to protect care homes is a national

scandal and they still can't organise a testing regime that even serviceable, let alone world beating. the reason this incompetence angers me is that i think of the sacrifices people have made. i think of the dedication of all those who work so hard to keep us all those who work so hard to keep us safe, the families that had to stay apart, the grandparents unable to hold grandchildren for the first time, partners denied the chance to be present at scans and births. and, in the most tragic circumstances, people robbed of the opportunity to say goodbye to those taken before their time. covid has made us appreciate what we value, that family really does come first always. and that the greatest

contribution we can make is to care for one another, to be good neighbours, good citizens, to protect those in need and build strong communities. so, to all the ca re strong communities. so, to all the care workers, the van drivers, the cleaners, the shop workers, and the life—savers in the nhs ijust want to say thank you. you change lives for the better. you made a difference. and it makes me angry that just when this difference. and it makes me angry thatjust when this country needs leadership we get serial incompetence. six months then, a cabinet chosen on loyalty alone, shows no signs of having learned any lessons from the crisis. here are two things i have learned. first, if you neglect your public services, you neglect your public services, you won't be ready when a crisis hits. nobody blames the government for the existence of the virus, but

the underfunding of the nhs, the abandonment of social care and the lack of investment in prevention, that's all done their watch, that's all down to them. and it always ends this way with a tory government. public services are neglected, cutbacks, left to decline, for a party called the conservative party they don't seem to conserve very much. the second thing i have learned is that a crisis reveals character like nothing else. and i think we have learned a lot about this prime minister. tory backbenchers know it. his cabinet knows it. we all know it. he's just not serious. he's just not up to the job. when he encounters a problem, johnson responds either by wishing it away or by lashing out. he kept wishing away the problems of

testing, pretending they didn't exist, he wished to make the problems with the irish border, then when he finally realised what it mounted up to he lashed out and decided to break international law. we are all doing our bit to combat the virus, by obeying the rule of six, meanwhile, the government won't even obey the law. and this is a big difference between the prime minister and me. whilst boris johnson was writing flippant columns about bending bananas, i was defending victims and prosecuting terrorists. while he was being sacked by a newspaperfor terrorists. while he was being sacked by a newspaper for making terrorists. while he was being sacked by a newspaperfor making up quotes, i was fighting forjustice and the rule of law. the grown—up way to deal with brexit is to negotiate properly and get a deal. and, on brexit, let me be absolutely clear. the debate between leave and

remain is over. we are not going to bea remain is over. we are not going to be a party that keeps banging on about europe. the prime minister has repeatedly promised that he will get a deal, so go on and get one. british business needs a deal. working people need a deal. our country needs a deal. and if the prime ministerfails to country needs a deal. and if the prime minister fails to get one, he will be failing britain. if that happens, he will have nobody to blame but himself. and he will have to own that failure. it will be on him. we want to get this deal done and, like everybody else, we are growing tired of the prime minister's bluster. the arrogance of this government makes me so angry, government minister telling parents to stop carping when they can't get a test for their sick child, that angus us all. but as well as anger,

i feel frustration. frustration that every labour party spokesperson is a shadow, shadow education, shadow health, shadow chancellor, shadow foreign, until we come out of the shadows, this party can't change anything. the promise that brought us anything. the promise that brought us into politics to change the country for the better is pointless if all we can do is to object to endless tory governments. so let's be blunt. let's be brutally honest with ourselves. when you lose an election in a democracy you deserve to. you don't look at the electorate and ask them what were you thinking? you look at yourself and ask what we are we doing? the labour party has

lost four general elections in a i’ow. lost four general elections in a row. we have granted the tories a decade of power. the tories have had as many election winners in five yea rs as many election winners in five years as as many election winners in five yea rs as we as many election winners in five years as we have had in 75. it's a betrayal of what we believe in to let this go on. it's time to get serious about winning. that means we have to change. and that's what we are doing. this is a party under new leadership. i promised that my first day of leader we would root out anti—semitism by its roots. we are making progress and we will root it out. once and for all. we are becoming a competent, credible opposition but that's not enough. i didn't come into politics to be in

opposition. and neither did u. i came into politics to change lives, but you don't get the permission to act unless the public trusts you. and we still have a lot to do. i don't underestimate the work that will be needed. but i can make this promise. never again will labour go into an election not being trusted on national security, with yourjob is, your community, with your money. that's what being under new leadership means. and the best incentive for being deadly serious about victory is to remember why we wa nt to about victory is to remember why we want to win. i don't want to win power just to want to win. i don't want to win powerjust to be prime minister, i wa nt to powerjust to be prime minister, i want to win because of the country i love and because of the values i

hold dear. when you win you come out of the shadows, you change lives, you make a difference to your country, to do that we must once again be the party of the whole united kingdom, the party of england, wales, scotland and northern ireland. we must make the pitch much more persuasively that we achieve more together than we do alone, to stop the nationalists ripping our country apart by design. and to stop the tories dismantling it by neglect. i'm not the sort of leader who wants to turn the clock back. times change. and so do political priorities. but let's remind ourselves of what this party can achieve at its best. this is the

party that created the national health service and founded nato. this is the party of equal pay act and this is the party of the open university. this is the party of the national minimum wage and this is the party of the good friday agreement. these achievements show that we inherit a task and purpose. all three of the post—war labour winners, attlee, wilson and blair saw it as their task to modernise britain. in 1945, attlee had to build a society fit to reward the sacrifices of the war. in 1964, wilson had to make the white heat of technology work for working people. and in 1997, tony blair wanted to extend the new era of opportunity to everyone. in the 75 years since the

historic victory of 1945, they have only been three labour winners. i wa nt to only been three labour winners. i want to be the fourth. and when you look back to 1945, to 1964, and two 1997, you learn an important lesson. the lesson is don't look back, look to the future, we need to be thinking about the questions of 2024 and the 2030s, not the questions of the past. if anything, covid has quickened the pace. the challenges we now face mean even the questions of 2019 already seem like ancient history. what we say at the next general election isn't written yet, but it will be rooted in labour values. it won't sound like anything

you've heard before, it will sound like the future arriving. the trust of the british people will only be won by a party that can provide security and opportunity to work that ends the structural flaws in our economy that mean that working people have barely had a pay rise in a decade. that fixes the housing crisis, so that young people finally have a prospect of owning their home, that understands the need for an economy healing the climate crisis, not contributing to it. that guarantees the security and integrity of this nation. that gives our young people the start in life they deserve and that gives our older people the dignity that they have earned. and that cherishes our diversity and takes pride in a

society where everyone belongs. we know that covid affect our black asian minority ethnic communities disproportionately but the government still hasn't done anything about it. that's why i asked doreen lawrence to lead an enquiry. i worked with doring to prosecute her sons killers. racial inequality is one of the causes that brought me into politics. and the eradication of structural racism will be a defining cause for the next labour government. covid—19 thrives on inequalities, structural inequalities, that we must defeat. i think you can measure a country by how good it is to grow up in. and it's a test of our compassion how good it is to grow old in. the young and the old have been badly let down by this government. our children and

young people have been an afterthought, and the gap between the best and worst of families threatens to get even wider. this inequalities scars life chances and ifear it will inequalities scars life chances and i fear it will leave a lasting legacy for a generation of children. the government promised catch—up support, but it's failed to materialise. and now the failure to get tests for children and teachers who need them mean kids are missing out on term as well. opportunity for the young should go way beyond party politics. it has to be a national mission to end the deep injustice that a child's future is determined by their postcode not by their potential. what we need is a national strategy with clear targets to close the education gap at every

stage in development, strategy enforced through an independent body such as the children's commissioner, and embedded in everything that we do. if the prime minister won't act, we will set up our own task force and to get on with it. because if levelling up is to mean anything, it must mean closing the education gap and making sure no child is held back. but above all, we need a government that cares enough to act. coronavirus has also revealed the perilous state of social care in this country. families have come under great stress caring for their loved ones. it's hard enough to see yourfamily in pain loved ones. it's hard enough to see your family in pain without financial ruin as well. if we did not realise it already, we have learned that care workers to some of the most vital work in society, yet

they are underpaid, under recognised and underappreciated. our care workers are heroes, but the social ca re system workers are heroes, but the social care system in britain is a disgrace toa care system in britain is a disgrace to a rich nation. the tories have had a decade to sort it out. but they've done nothing. david cameron promised he would fix it, theresa may promised she would fix it, a year ago, borisjohnson may promised she would fix it, a year ago, boris johnson promised may promised she would fix it, a year ago, borisjohnson promised he would fix it. let's hold them to that promise. this is a matter of basic fairness and human compassion. the government needs to act and to act now and it must ensure mistakes made in the first spike cannot happen again this winter, and it must bring forward comprehensive social care reform that guarantees all care workers at least the real living wage. after a decade of drift, this government must finally

fix our social care system so that it treats those who have given so much with the respect, the love and the dignity that they deserve. i can see in my minds eye the country i wa nt see in my minds eye the country i want us to be. properly funded universal public services, world class education which unleashes everyone's potential. a huge investment in skills, and plan working hand—in—hand with businesses and trade unions to create high qualityjobs. and and trade unions to create high quality jobs. and an and trade unions to create high qualityjobs. and an economy that does not force people to move hundreds of miles just to find a decentjob. one that truly works hundreds of miles just to find a decent job. one that truly works for all regions and nations of this united kingdom. with opportunity and security in every part of the country, and at every stage of our lives. a country committed to a

greener, cleaner and fairer society, where every policy is judged, not just by how much it costs today, but also by what it does for the planet tomorrow. a country which will be an active force for good in the world and once again admired and respected. leading the world and leading by example in tackling the climate emergency. it would be a country which is the best place to grow up in and the best place to grow up in and the best place to grow old in. i can see it. i can describe it. but it's alljust a dream unless we win back the trust of the people, and we've got a long road ahead of us. we're not going to win back those we've lost with a single speech a clever policy offer.

trust ta kes single speech a clever policy offer. trust takes time. it starts with being a credible opposition, with taking thejob being a credible opposition, with taking the job seriously. that's what we will do. so to those people in doncaster and deeside and glasgow anglers be an stoke and stevenage —— glasgow and grimsby. i say to you, we hear you. never again will labour ta ke we hear you. never again will labour take you all the things you care about for granted. and i ask you, ta ke about for granted. and i ask you, take another look at labour. we are under new leadership. we love this country as you do. this is the country as you do. this is the country i grew up in. and this is the country i will grow old in. and i want it to be the country i know it can be. that, in the end, is why ido it can be. that, in the end, is why i do this. to change lives for the better. to make a difference to my

country. i know the good of a labour government can do, and i'm already looking forward to it. thank you. keir starmer ending that speech. not easy to do, talking to an empty hall, no standing ovation that we are used to from conference, no rapturous applause. so we can now talk about the substance of the speech he has just left, talk about the substance of the speech he hasjust left, as has roots me. lisa nandy, the shadow foreign secretary is still here as his vicki young for the bbc, but let's get some reaction from the left and right of the political spectrum. we can talk to camilla tommy, the associate editor of the telegraph newspaper and steve richards, the political commentator, listening to that, it was blunt and to the point and he talked about the party having to change and he talked a little bit about himself and the importance of family values, but what did you make of the speech?”

think it was about framing an argument. it's very interesting the rhythms of being leader of the opposition. no labour leader has won an election when they begin as leader at the start of the parliamentary term. the winners, wilson and tony blair got their mid—term elections were looming and this means he has to get the rhythm right about what he does and when. and it seems obvious that you begin with the framing of an argument. and the argument that has tended to work for labour on the rare occasion when they win an election is this incompetence versus competence framing. it's not enough, but as a beginning it is a framing that works. camilla, taking on from that, he has got time, hasn't he? he talked about values and we wouldn't expect the opposition at this point in the parliamentary cycle to be talking about policies. he talked

about a competent, credible opposition which is what he says labour now is and although the next election may be some way off, he is achieving what he is setting out to do, break with the past and jeremy corbyn. under new leadership, under new management. that's right. what's interesting is whether he thinks he is the holding pattern leader who gets labour to the point where they can think about winning the next generation but hand over to someone perhaps more dynamic or perhaps even a woman or somebody different. is he the neil kinnock figure that brings labour back from the brink only to hand it over to fresh blood when the time comes and that puts him in a difficult position. equally, in this attempt to kind of apologise for the jeremy corbyn leadership there is a sense of desperation in what he is saying and one of the lines, take another look at labour, it's like he's begging voters who they lost in december to reconsider and that positioning on competence is new

leadership punchy enough? i know kate green was slammed today for suggesting labour could make capital out of the coronavirus crisis and i think keir starmer needs to be careful about that because there are a lot of voters who think that under the circumstances the government is doing the best in a bad situation and labour might not be any different, but i think this whole sense of competence is something he can drill home because he can make that argument against boris johnson in any context, not just the context of coronavirus so one wonders whether the slogan could have been punchier and said proper leadership instead of new leadership which would have been a reflection on corbyn but also the prime minister. let's put some of that to lisa, particular on the shadow education secretary about the comments she made ina secretary about the comments she made in a labour connected event in conference on sunday, and she did say there was a real immediate pressure to address these funding needs for the crisis, but i think we should use the opportunity and don't let a good crisis go to waste.

that's pretty cynical, isn't it? it was really badly expressed and kate would be the first person to accept it. on behalf of the labour party i am sorry we've given the impression through that that this is somehow a good thing. this is a terrible thing for the country. the point she was trying to make is after ten years of cuts to public funding including schools, there are a lot of children who are already very far behind other kids, whose life chances were limited and the failure to deal with the schools crisis, the failure to get help to those kids, and some of them in my constituency don't have access to the internet and could not do online learning at home, she wants to make sure this is a moment that we change but i'm sorry that came across so badly and it wasn't the intention. it doesn't play well with the competent, credible opposition that keir starmerjust spoke about. it is a reminder about how careful politicians have to be. it is exactly a reminder of the care you have to take and why keir starmer set out that we are in a responsible position and will

support the government when they get it right, because in the end of the government succeeding means the country succeeds in the battle against coronavirus. we have taken some stick for it. people want us to be more critical of the government and we are willing to challenge where they get it wrong, but if you seek to govern this country you have to show the public that you act in their best interest and that is exactly what he was talking about in that speech. but you are supporting unconditionally everything that the government is doing, rightly or wrongly, when it comes to coronavirus and equally you supported the relaxation of the restrictions in the summer. we haven't supported unconditionally what the government has done. you are in what they are doing. several months ago i was here saying that people had to get a grip on the fact that we have people coming back into this country and there are no testing or quarantine measures at airports and we have said that they got the testing system wrong and a month ago he said to get a grip on this or we will have a bleak winter and involve local public health directors and local public health services, who have spare capacity on the expertise. the government didn't

listen. that is part of the reason why we are going into partial lockdown is again. so we will challenge them but what we won't do is undermine the public health advice. we want the country to come through this crisis. steve, is that the right position for keir starmer and labour to be taking over this crisis? constructive criticism, you mean? yes, but you can see the dangers because the theme of the questioning has been, are they being exploitative of the nightmare, or are they being too supportive? you can see how difficult the balancing act is, but i think they have broadly got it right. keir starmer has become best known for his challenging ofjohnson about the virus at prime minister's questions and it has been virtually his sole focus and he has been then very critical, but in terms of supporting them when they impose constraints, that's obviously a judgment depending on the constraints but i

think that too has been broadly correct, but getting the narrative right about why you are doing what you are doing is obviously crucial, as we've seen in the last few minutes were slightly contradictory themes have surfaced. camilla? also i think that labour know that they don't need to needle when you have the likes of sir graham brady, the head of the tory backbench committee, 1922 committee, raising serious concerns about some of the new lockdown measures and you have clearly got a mini revolt on the tory backbenches against what johnson is doing. at that point, labour can be quite hands off and let the tory infighting go on. i agree with steve that the balance needs to be struck because i think the public also recognises that were labour in power they would be saved —— faced with the same problems with regards to public health england's handling of the pe and staffing shortages in the nhs and the lack of capacity, and that doesn't change

under different governments. i think the public is quite wise to this idea and you use the word cynical with regard to kate green, that trying to exploit a crisis is not going to be a great look for what purports to be a new leadership. we would associate those sort of tactics with corbyn, frankly. camilla and steve, stay with us because i will talk to lease a bit more about the substance of the speech. we can broadly agree that keir starmer set out values in the speech not policies. when will we hear about policies?” speech not policies. when will we hear about policies? i think there was a nod to the sort of government that he would lead and the country he would create. one section of the speech talked about wanting to bring people together and create opportunities in every part of the uk. but without a policy offered to back it up. but the recognition that large parts of the country have not benefited from globalisation and that there has been 40 years of decline in many parts of the world, including mine, that is an important moment for this country because we have not seen a government really

recognise that and start to get to grips with it. we had a little bit of this earlier in the year from rishi sunak where he talked about levelling up but that agenda quickly fell apart because of the virus and also because in the end i'm not sure that the tories really understand those parts of the country. we need real power in order to create opportunities. you say that but they are the ones who have won many seats in those areas and labour lost them in one of the issues was brexit, so let's talk about it. labour has been using the phrase get brexit done. that was boris johnson's using the phrase get brexit done. that was borisjohnson's key using the phrase get brexit done. that was boris johnson's key slogan at the last election. why are you using it? because he promised to get brexit done and he won many of those seats and the voters on the basis that he would get a brexit deal for britain and came to the house of commons in january and britain and came to the house of commons injanuary and said i've done it, i've got this great deal and i've negotiated this and we left the european union as a result. and here we are ten months later no closer to getting brexit done. but will that ring true with voters when keir starmer as shadow brexit

secretary and at the forefront of the campaign to have another random with that remain on the ballot paper. i know you differed with him on that. and he would often say that he would still vote to remain. it's a bit rich for him to say get brexit done. there is no alternative to the country and if you want to act in the best interests of the country, those divisions are got to be ove rco m e of those divisions are got to be overcome of the country are sick and tired of this and were in the middle ofa tired of this and were in the middle of a global pandemic, the only right thing to do for the country now is to get out brexit didn't focus tackling coronavirus. but why should people believe him when they heard everything he said during those three years when brexit was poured over? why should they trust what he says, get brexit done? he originally said he accepted the result of the referendum, and... he wanted another referendum, and... he wanted another referendum to vote remain. referendum, and... he wanted another referendum to vote remainm referendum, and... he wanted another referendum to vote remain. if you remember, the theresa may government was so busy negotiating with itself, the consensus in the country that we we re the consensus in the country that we were leaving started to fall apart

and fracture and we got this enormous division. what we've got now is a situation four years later with a tory government are still negotiating with itself, still can't reach agreement within its own ranks, and that's why we haven't got a brexit deal done. we've got to do this. so we can focus on coronavirus. what is the deal you would like to see done because you we re would like to see done because you were campaigning on the basis of staying in the customs union and the single market at points during that whole debate. is that what you still want? we want to close trading relationship so businesses here don't face enormous barriers. in the customs union? one of those benefits would we want and still years later be having an argument about where to place a border on the island of ireland or within the uk. and the problem the tories have got as they rejected the customs union and we accepted it and we lost the vote, but the question is then how are they going to solve this problem? ten months after they said they were

almost there, they are nowhere near solving it and are reopening those old wounds again. it's deeply frustrating. people may not trust keir starmer because of what he said and done in the past when it comes to brexit, but he wants a deal done. he says it's obvious that there are certain things that can be resolved, fisheries and state aid are issues which are obviously capable of being resolved how? one of the problems with the way the tories talk about state aid as they say you're not allowed to do anything in relation to it within the eu, that's not true. other countries like germany have been far more proactive it intervening to support their industries within the eu and so we think the tories are blowing this issue up out of proportion. on some of these areas like not creating paperwork within the uk, we com pletely paperwork within the uk, we completely agree with them, we think it's possible to persuade the eu of that and we would support them when they go off to try and do it for the truth is that not even trying to do it. they are having a row within the tory party, reopening old wounds

instead of going off to brussels and persuading european partners that we can get this deal through. or people will think the government is taking an uncompromising stance in order to get what it actually wants whereas you would be prepared to do a deal with the eu that would be more harmful? listen to the words keir spokein harmful? listen to the words keir spoke in that speech for the first mission of labour government will be to stand up for the interests of the british people, national security and economic security and family security, and that means getting good deals with people around the world. where we differ from the tories as we don't believe you do that by sticking your fingers in your and refusing to acknowledge their art negotiations ongoing. we believe you fight for a good deal and you get that good deal through and you get that good deal through and then focus on tackling the pandemic and on the things people really care about. what do you make listening to that when you think back to the years underjeremy corbyn and during all that debate on brexit? do you think people will

start to listen to labour on that critical issue? they might do but i presume labourers may be hoping that the situation will have been solved by the time they come to power, the fa ct by the time they come to power, the fact that this deal needs to be done by the end of this year or in the early stages of next year, they might well hope it becomes an issue that people don't care as much about and certainly the moment coronavirus thatis and certainly the moment coronavirus that is an issue, but there is a question for labour about how much, listening to that speech there, keir starmer was very much saying i'm not jeremy corbyn or boris johnson and for now that might get him a long way, but the question is at what point does the app to start laying out more detail about the policies there are. i get there is a three and half years before an election but you have a very, very long way to go, you're a long way behind underwhen to go, you're a long way behind under when you would need would need to be even greater than tony blair one ennis landslide when we lay out the details. i won't make any apology for the fact we haven't made huge spending commitments, not laying out what policies would be in

the manifesto. we are in the middle of one the greatest crisis is that i've ever lived through and we don't know what the world is going to look like when the dust settles and we finally come through this health crisis. one of the great lessons i've learned in the last decade as an mpfora i've learned in the last decade as an mp for a time where people have very low incomes as you are careful with public money because it's their money and they don't have a lot of it, so we are going to think this through properly, not just it, so we are going to think this through properly, notjust write blank cheques, and when we say we are going to create a better future for the country that means we're going to invest to deliver on the priorities of the people have for their kids and grandkids and their elderly parents as well. camilla? i was thinking back to something lease we re was thinking back to something lease were saying about britain negotiating with their fingers in their ears. negotiating with their fingers in theirears. i negotiating with their fingers in their ears. i think there needs to be an awareness particularly in those red states that the perception is barnier has been negotiating with fingers in his ears and the fact people no longer care about brexit because of cove it is no longer

right. i appreciate because of cove it is no longer right. iappreciate keir starmer appreciates the need to look as if he believes in britain —— covid. one of the main criticisms of corbyn what he was critical on britain, an anti—patriot, and i think there's a sense of patriotism which has been misconstrued as jingoistic and bigoted, which is actuallyjust a sense of optimism, and when it comes to completing the boris johnson sense of optimism, and when it comes to completing the borisjohnson is going to have to try harder on that because there is a sense particularly in new—found tory constituencies that boris johnson, like it or loathe him, is almost draped ina like it or loathe him, is almost draped in a union flag and post brexit he's got a vision for britain that seems to be very much on the side of the uk and i think labour's problem has been thatjeremy side of the uk and i think labour's problem has been that jeremy corbyn didn't like britain and isn't out of the country has achieved and in that sense i think labour has got some more work to do. i think it's absolutely right to say we lost a lot of trust and the people want to know that we are a party again which will relentlessly go out and fight for them and i thought that question about the eu was really important

because we are not saying that the eu has got everything right in this. they have been moments where we feel the eu has behaved very badly in some of the rhetoric that has come out and it's not helped the case of trying to negotiate a good deal that's come in the end, the first duty of the government is to fight for the british people and fight for a good dealfor this country. but we need a government that is prepared to do that and is prepared to deliver on that, and not getting a deal in the middle of a global pandemic would be a disaster for this country and the government promised us that there would be one and wejust promised us that there would be one and we just want to see them deliver on it. we'll keir starmer get away with that phrase of not talking about brexit in any deep meaningful way? one of the challenges of leadership is to work out how much spaceis leadership is to work out how much space is available to you on the political stage at any given time. we know he thinks brexit is a disaster because are used to say it, but there's no point in saying now the referendum and then the election meant brexit was going to happen, so

the only space available to him for the only space available to him for the time being, however frustrating it is, for those of us who see brexit as being a catastrophe, is to focus on what is doing, you said it was done, you said you had a deal, whereas it? deliver it. i can't see any other spaces got, so i think he's playing it well, that's pushing it. that's all the space available to him. therefore, if he had started putting the case for a different kind of dealer or anything else, then those so—called red supporters would feel they are not listening and so on, so we've just got to do this, but i think this argument about patriotism, optimism, johnson anti—brexit, will be tested the logic of brexit because some of the fantasies will now clash with realities of happening at the moment with the irish question. but

governments own these crises and opposition would be bonkers to walk onto that terrain at this point. let's talk about some of the policies because keir starmer is said many times recently that he doesn't want to raise taxes, pledge we often hear from the conservative leaders, less so from labour. but when keir starmer was willing to be labour leader it was a different time and had ten pledges, the first was to raise taxes, income tax for high earners and also corporation tax. is that now gone?” high earners and also corporation tax. is that now gone? i expect so based on what you just said. in the middle of a global pandemic, when people are really struggling, not just losing jobs but also taking cuts in hours and pay in order to keep theirjobs, and the idea of raising taxes and squeezing people who are in work and trying to make ends meet is completely the wrong priority for the country. has he ditched all of his ten pledges including nationalising rail, mail, energy and water? given the public much more control over how those things work, in the public interest

is right. i had the privilege of being in that leadership contest alongside keir and the other candidates. one of the things we all sat out is we want to see those public utilities work much better. but nationalising them ? public utilities work much better. but nationalising them?” public utilities work much better. but nationalising them? i think bringing them back into a national handsis bringing them back into a national hands is one way of doing, given the public more control is another and the energy industry for example, one of the things i set out a shadow energy secretary as we would like to see the public having much more control over the way that is directed which means breaking up the dominance of the big six, and bringing new entrants into the market. does that mean an end to outsourcing? one of the big problems we have seen in the last few months when the government has brought in firms like circo to do testing, not connected to local public health services, so local gps don't even know who has covid in their own areas. do you want those contracts ended? we definitely think local

public health councils and services are better placed to drive us through this and if you look at germany that's what they have done better. camilla, listening to that, keir starmer has written in your papera keir starmer has written in your paper a number of times, keir starmer has written in your papera number of times, so keir starmer has written in your paper a number of times, so do you think is beginning to convince some of your readers he's worth listening to? well, i think is obviously a more credible alternative than jeremy corbyn, who was anathema to most of our readers and most of the country. i think this whole spending as she was interesting because the criticism made of jeremy as she was interesting because the criticism made ofjeremy corbyn with the planting of magic money trees and now we are in a situation because of covid and the big spending on infrastructure plans announced before this pandemic hits, this idea that now the tories are planting money trees to rivaljeremy corbyn as allotments are where does labour go with the argument on spending? the tory perspective, 0k, a lack of fiscal discipline might alienate old school blue rinse brigade tories who are much keener on fixing the roof and saving money,

but where are they going to go? they're not going to switch to the lib dems or labour, so they are safe, so this idea about fighting over the centre ground, the squeezed middle who do want there to be more public spending, because that's i think what we have been used to over the last couple of decades, the idea of failure reversing some of the criticisms over austerity is something the tories want to cling onto and therefore how does labour position itself in competition with this idea of actually pouring money back into public services? steve, can you hear me? sorry, we lost you for a moment. in terms of economic credibility and confidence keir starmer is talking about, without policy set out, how will people know? well there's no need for policies yet. it would be a disaster to announce a manifesto now, years before an election. what they are trying to do it seems to be is something quite similar to what gordon brown did, the shadow chancellor, in the 90s, when labour

lost four elections, which is to say it's not so much about high public spending versus no public spending but good use of public spending, versus but good use of public spending, versus reckless use of public spending, productive spending versus unproductive spending, that famous a dividing line from that period. it seemed that that was the essence of their message. now that doesn't mean they should or will follow a kind of new labour path because that was rooted in the mid—90s, but i think i'm spending that's what they're trying to do. any policy differences from jeremy corbyn?” trying to do. any policy differences from jeremy corbyn? i think there'll be some things in common and something is different. we believe in investing in public services but like steve just said don't waste the money and spend on things like the job retention scheme bonus which wasted money, take a targeted approach, work with people in the country in those industries who know where that money needs to be directed and let's get people through this. thank you to all of my guests. that's it for now.

but i will be back at 12.15 on bbc one to bring you the prime minister, who will be addressing the house of commons on the latest coronavirus measures. see you then.

hello. welcome to bbc news. i'm victoria derbyshire with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. all pubs, bars and restaurants in england will have to close from 10pm on thursday, to help curb the spread of coronavirus. a change of advice — the government tell us to work from home in england, and there'll be no return of spectators to sport events for the time being, with more restrictions to come. the prime minister is charing a cabinet meeting right now — that will be followed by a cobra emergency committee. he'll then set out the measures in the commons at lunchtime before he addresses the nation on tv tonight. do you think a 10pm curfew on purpose will make any difference? some parts of the country already

have such