with president trump suffering from covid—19, and joe biden family old, this debate becomes the most important of its kind in history. will their performance swing any votes? we'll have analysis of the debate with amanda renteria, former national political director for hillary clinton in 2016. doesn't that seem a long time ago! and republican strategist ron christie. hello and welcome to our special coverage — for 90 minutes the american political world will focus on a stage in salt lake city, utah for a vice presidential debate like no other in history. for a start, this one actually matters. usually no one pays much attention to the number two candidates but, with donald trump in isolation with a virus that has killed

210,000 americans, and joe biden hoping to win election as the oldest president ever, people are very focused on the health of the two men at the top of the ticket. which puts mike pence and kamala harris in the spotlight. were anything to happen to either mr trump or mr biden, one of these two would be the next president of the united states. normally we'd say they'll be face to face tonight — but they won't. they'll be separated by 12 feet of stage and two panels of plexiglass. that's what a debate looks like in the midst of a pandemic when the white house has become a hot bed of covid—19. amanda renteria is it with us and the republican strategist ron christie. 0ften, sometimes,

the vice presidential candidates have to be attack dogs and sometimes do no harm. it is more third do no harm category. given that the presidential debate was more of a fight than talking about issues and policy, i think we will see something different tonight when both candidates feel they will be able to talk about some of the issues this country is facing and the number one issue, in case in plexiglas, is how the president handled the coronavirus and also the vice president who was the leader of the task force for coronavirus. given that mike pence leads the coronavirus task force, isn't he instantly on the defence? coronavirus task force, isn't he instantly on the defence ?|i do not think so. i think amanda is right that it will be one of do no harm but a lot of issues to be discussed beyond

coronavirus. what are we going to do to make sure we can reopen the american economy and build millions and millions of jobs? what can we do to deal with the civil unrest around our cities and bring a sense of tranquillity. there are a lot of things the american people are looking to their leaders to discuss and tonight is going to bea discuss and tonight is going to be a critical debate. usually the vp debate does not count for much but this debate, this evening, so much is on the line both candidates for a variety of reasons. it wasjust over a week ago, can you believe it, that there was tuned in for the presidential debate between mr trump and mr biden which was not really a debate and not presidential in time. can we assure everyone that what we are about to see this evening is not going to be that? let's

only hope so. you're looking at two really experienced members of congress. the vice president served in the house of representatives, he was a two—time governor and he has been vice president for several years. kamala harris has an extensive background in public service. i expect a bit more of a civil and intellectual debate than what we saw at the presidential level. but i would also say to you, if i was kamala harris, the senator from california, i would go on the offensive of the perceived vulnerability of this administration dealing with covid and the matter with which president trump presents himself. potentially the standard bearer of the democratic party she will want to make her mark but also she needs to be careful not to do anything that could jeopardise the whole lead that the biden—

harris team have at the moment? she is a season. she gets it. she is a season. she gets it. she was also just under the presidential primary so has a sense of what it feels like. but i will say though is that she is making history for our country right now. a lot of women and a lot of women of colour, daughters of immigrant families, who see themselves in her so tonight is not only a moment for her to make sure people understand what this administration has done, but also to give some credibility to what it would look like, should she have to step in as president and, for many people, they are quite a few people who are excited. excited to see what this might look like. of course, it is behind plexiglas and behind americans worried about their health but this is

when leaders rise and i know there are quite a few people looking for these moment and to see her at this time. let's ta ke see her at this time. let's take a moment to talk about that. it is historic. there have only be three presidential vice president, sarah paling, geraldine ferraro and outcome of kamala harris and one presidential candidate, hillary clinton. so this is unusual to see a woman who is not white up under that debate stage in this position. i wonder how much pressure there is on her. she isa pressure there is on her. she is a groundbreaking and i am sure she has been used all her life to be the first at something but this is a big deal even for kamala harris who has been so successful in her life so far. it certainly is an also, at a time when we are having conversation about

racial justice, having conversation about racialjustice, coming off having conversation about racial justice, coming off four yea rs of racial justice, coming off four years of women marching in the #metoo movement, at a time when we are talking about immigration, she is here at this very moment stop i think people have said she has waited and spent her entire life rating for this moment. they too have been waiting to see themselves in this presidential conversation as leaders of our country so there is a lot of pressure but she has spent her life breaking barriers and understands what this moment is about. a lot of talk, and you would have seen it, that kamala harris is an experienced prosecutor and given her performances in congress as well will be in this debate, whatever that means but in a sense, president trump so denigrated joe biden, so caricatured him, it set the bar so caricatured him, it set the bar so low, is it the same pence,

benefiting from the fact he is the underdog even though he is the underdog even though he is the vice president? i would not underestimate mike pence for one second. he has spent his entire career as a career politician. he has a few cards up politician. he has a few cards up his sleeves. the senator from california is an experienced prosecutor knows how to cross examine witnesses but vice president pence also knows his way around the capital and the quarters of power and he will use this to his advantage, his experience against arrival tonight who does not have the same amount of time and experience as he does. i think these two, toe to toe, would be a contract in style but i would not count either of them out for what they bring to the table and what they can potentially do to inflict harm on their opponent. i agree. i think it is also

worth saying, when kamala harris was the vice presidential pic, a lot of democrats saying i cannot wait for this debate because we have seen for this debate because we have seen her in the senate and she's a great prosecutor but, actually, you have to remember that mike pence also had a career as a radio host before becoming a politician and that healthy in a situation like this. that serves him very well. it does stop he is very, very foxy. he knows how to talk to people. —— floksie. he has a way of connecting with people. there is a reason why he was a 2—term governor and is now the vice president stop when you look at that charisma and connectivity with people across the political spectrum, across the political spectrum, across the racial spectrum, mike pence is bringing a lot to the table andl is bringing a lot to the table and i will finally say that i think the senator from

california has a potential weakness here as well. you are woman, a of colour, all our hopes ride on you — that is a lot of pressure. she is very smart and capable but i would rather be viewed as a candidate viewed for my capability rather than my colour and agenda. kamala harris has had a tough career as a prosecutor. it gave us some career as a prosecutor. it gave us some problems with the left of the democratic party. — — it gave her. she will use it to the voters that the democrats need to win here. one of the pieces of the democratic party that people are excited about is seeing her on the presidential ticket. the experience she has had anything state of california as a prosecutor, in her own senatorial and academic experience, she has received accolades for that kind of work and she has risen to the occasion time and time again

but i will also say here, it is pretty tough. pence is a great debater, no doubt stop but it is pretty tough, you have an audience of one, where trump is watching this and he has been on the front line and i wonder what trump is expecting of pence and it is hard for pence to defend the rhetoric and behaviour that comes out of the trump white house because it is not been mike pence has been over the years. we have seen a much quieter vice president than one who would have expected from someone with mike pence? experience. —— mike pence's experience. to defend what is coming out of trump throughout this campaign and presidency. the setting of the plexiglas, i note this is something kamala harris‘s team wa nted something kamala harris‘s team wanted but actually the

scientists now suggesting it will not make a huge amount of difference because, if the particles are airborne, they will be floating around the stage and easily get around the plexiglas. was this just political theatre and is that some risk enter that? i know the campaign thinks it is a good visual, it reminds people that covid is out there but is it possible i push this little file when scientists say it is not going to protect her. it is difficult, on the one hand you wa nt difficult, on the one hand you want that moment in the debate that people seem both the candidates and on the other hand, there is a risk and what you have seen time and time again with senator harris and vice president pence, how can you be as safe as possible while also be able to talk with the american people and connected with the american people. it is extremely

u nfortu nate we people. it is extremely unfortunate we are into this moment and i have to say, a lot of the conversations happening throughout the country is how do we manage these when one party, particularly the democratic party, has been focused on wearing masks and the other party has not and now we are in a situation where we have to be asking these questions in order to be having a conversation with the american people. it is tough and you do what you can at the moment so i do appreciate there will be plexiglas and that there are still risks associated with that. do you think, to the extent that covid isa think, to the extent that covid is a front and centre of the national discussion, whether it is plexiglas, the fact that the president is quarantining or perhaps not quite quarantining into the white house, but the conversation is back on covid again and that is not where the

trump administration needed to be heading into these last few weeks of the campaign? he could have used this to his advantage, i am a patient, have used this to his advantage, lam a patient, in quarantine, following the science and yet, still his vice president tonight will have to come out and defended the notion that, while he is not in quarantine, not in the treatment room where he was supposed to work, he was over in west wing and the oval 0ffice in west wing and the oval office and i am a democrat i would say, the president of the united states even after he contracted coronavirus steel is not following the safe distancing and protocols set out. that is going to be very difficult for the vice president to defend. a i'm not sure if it is the party of musk wearing and not by the president does not do himself any favours when he behaves the way he does but his vice president has been largely kept in the background will have to

come front and centre to defend some of his antics over the la st some of his antics over the last 3.5 years. that's pick up from our correspondent from salt lake city, utah. people don't often pay attention to vice president your debates, but this debate between mike pence and kamala harris is expected to get millions of viewers and a lot of attention? yes, and of course president trump has caught covid—i9, raising doubts about how much campaigning he is going to be doing, that puts mike pence in the spotlight, for what we can expect in the next couple of hours. sophie long is at the university of utah in salt lake city for us. you had to get tested negative? no, we have a package from her. judge kavanaugh, i no, we have a package from her. judge kavanaugh, lam no, we have a package from her. judge kavanaugh, i am concerned whether you would treat every american equally. she is a senator from california, american equally. she is a senatorfrom california, known for her incisive questioning of president trump's nominees for the supreme court. i know full

well the importance of presidential leadership. he has been president trump's right—hand man for the past four years. the note, they take toa four years. the note, they take to a specially adapted stage that will be watched by tens of millions of voters. vice presidential debates are not normally the headline act of a presidential election campaign, but this one is anything but normal. given the age of their bosses and the fact president trump's recent hospitalisation with coronavirus means we don't yet know if the remaining two presidential debates will even ta ke presidential debates will even take place, tonight's meeting between kamala harris and mike pence will be the most important of its kind in history. they take over under the death of —— or resignation of the president of the united states. when you have one candidate that is fairly old, and one is sick right now, there is no way you can't talk about that particular issue, because there is at least some track where one of these two candidates good and are being president of the united states.

we are and independent collection of d sent women who speak for themselves. president trump's reaction to covid—i9 has led some lifelong republicans to look for something else. i was no ill will towards him, but i think it's a time for us to once again think about doing better. this should never have been a political issue. coronavirus should have been something where we all come together and work together for the good of everyone. and that is why character matters in a president. but at this pro trumpet potato bar, yes, there is such a thing, people think his personal handling of the pandemic is a show of strength. when you are a soldier and you are at risk and you are a will and you are fighting something, you go in there. you've got to rally your trips, you've got to build the morale of your troops, you've got to be victorious. you can't be afraid. and that's what i look at it as. unfortunately, some

soldiers when they go to war, they get winded. nate mike pence will go into battle for the current commander—in—chief against a former prosecutor for his competitor, joe biden. with less tha n his competitor, joe biden. with less than a month to go and a campaign thrown into chaos by covid—i9, the stakes are high. sophie long, bbc news, salt lake city. a bread—and—butter question. there are only ten minutes before the debate starts. we we re before the debate starts. we were told both candidates would be tested right before the debate for covid—i9, up until now, told they have tested negative. given the white house is such a hot spot, is there any possibility somebody will test positive and the whole thing is off? well, i mean, when you look at this election campaign in 2020 and 2020 in general, is there a possibility? perhaps. ithink it's very, very unlikely. we heard from mike pence's position today confirming he had a negative test on tuesday.

he and his wife karen were tested in salt lake city today, also negative, and we have heard kamala harris has been tested negative as well. the safety precautions put in place because of the pandemic are ha rd to overstate, because of the pandemic are hard to overstate, even to be where i am, i am about a0 metres from the hole where the debate is taking place —— hall, the media is socially dispensed and we have had to have negative coronavirus tests 2a hours before coming within the perimeter. so, you can imagine what the precautions are like inside the building. the only three people inside kingsbury hole without masks will be the two candidates and the moderator, susan page. so, extremely type safety precautions in place, largely because the outbreak of the white house still seems to continue to grow. so, sophie,

last time around those similar precautionary measures were in place. the candidates were meant to get tested and people in the hall were meant to wear masks. the trump team arrived too late for them to be able to check if they had been tested. and the drum family entourage took their masks —— trump family entourage took their masks off in the hallway. will people stick to the rules in place? i think so. they will be very strict. people will have to wear them asked throughout the 19 minute duration of this debate, —— 90 minute, and they described what was a spirited to and fro between kamala harris‘ campaign and mike pence and the commission that is organising the presidential debates. that largely focused on the plexiglass that has been put in place. emily harris‘ campaign asked for more safety precautions. mike pence's campaign pushed back against that. the desks will be more

than 12 feet apart as well. is it too late to say lessons have been learnt? the presidential debate was only a week or so ago, but there are strict are precautions in place here. being on—site, you cannot, as soon as i finished talking to you you will have to —— i will have two put a mask back on and have two put a mask back on and have the right type of mask as well. there is a feeling this is being taken very seriously indeed. you can understand why, when you have united states of the president does make a president of the united states —— you have the president and this epidemic which has killed over 200,000 americans. the previous debate was described asa previous debate was described as a shutting show. there seems to bea as a shutting show. there seems to be a strong move to make this one different. can you tell us about how the moderator, how she might handle it? you and me, probably more than our viewers perhaps, but susan page is a print journalist, she is the usa

today bureau chief at washington, dc, a veteran white house political reporter. i don't know how you felt when you watched last night's debate, it wasn't an easy one to moderate. she has been asked about that since and i think she said it is making her continue with her preparation. yes, that was a very saudi debate, referred to as neither presidential nor a debate —— shouty. and a national embarrassment. i think tonight will be different. we have very different people on the stage. mike pence is a softly spoken, methodical man who has remained on message right through the past four years of the trump campaign and then you have kamala harris, a senatorfrom california but a former rossa qtic who is very used to being ina qtic who is very used to being in a trial situation. and you have an american public who has been very vocal in the last week that they do not want that —— a former prosecutor, and they want to know what the plan is for the next four years for

america. i think kamala harris and mike pence will try to give that because it is the american people at the end of the day, that they are speaking to. and the millions of people are expected to watch, among them, those crucial undecided voters, which i have to say in utah there are not many of those around anymore. many people are excited about this debate that i have spoken to. they are proud that it is taking place here in salt lake city. most people here have said they have already made up their minds. but this is their one and only opportunity. of course, this campaign has been like no other before. neither candidate has been able to campaign in the way they would have liked. this is their big opportunity to speak directly to the american people, and we heard from pete buttigieg, one of the few commentators or people who have been speaking to people here, amongst the media, and he was saying what kamala harris has to do is stay on message, not to do is stay on message, not to be distracted, herjob is not there to take down mike pence, but you speak to the

american people. she will be appealing to a broad coalition, to the average american voter. what she has got to do tonight is very different to her competitor. joe biden is currently leading in the polls. 0bviously they don't always tell us and translate into victory, but she has a significant need. she will be trying to maintain that, to do no harm to it. he, on the other hand has to do something different, close that around and turn it around. and the election date is less than a month away, so, will there be many more opportunities to do that? we don't yet know. we don't even know if the two remaining presidential debates will take place. this is a significant evening in the campaign as we run up to election day. ok, sophie, let me ask you about that. ever since vice presidential debates began in i976i don't think there is any evidence they have actually moved the needle either way in any of the years, they haven't been held every

year, but i am not sure that they have actually, looking at opinion polling, made much difference. are you saying you really do think that this debate will break historical precedent and make a difference one way or another come the election? i don't think it will make a difference, come election day, perhaps, i think there is added significance this time around. i think in 1976 there was interest in that time around because of what had happened with president nixon and the last time, of course, vice president succeeded without an election was in 197a, without an election was in 1974, that was on the people's minds. this time it is about the age of the people leading the age of the people leading the tickets. both presidential candidates are in the 705, joe biden is 77, of course. if elected, he would be the oldest american president. donald trump i5 american president. donald trump is no 5pring chicken, he i5 74 and still being treated for and recovering from the viru5 for and recovering from the virus which has guilt in excess

of 211,000 americans. —— ha5 killed. it is a deadly virus. so there has been a lot of focu5 so there has been a lot of focus on the vice presidential candidates. only la5t focus on the vice presidential candidates. only last week people were really thinking is mike pence going to have to ta ke mike pence going to have to take over when donald trump we nt take over when donald trump went into wa5 take over when donald trump went into was read military hospital? it is at the forefront of people's mine5. and for people watching the debate tonight, that is what they will be thinking was that ye5, they will be thinking was that yes, they want to hear about policy, ye5, yes, they want to hear about policy, yes, they want to hear about the plan they also want to hear kamala harri5 about the plan they also want to hear kamala harris and our thinking is she ready, could 5he take over as commander—in—chief at a moment's notice, and the same formike pence, moment's notice, and the same for mike pence, who has had a lot longer to get used to that. we have seen kamala harri5 lot longer to get used to that. we have seen kamala harris on the debate 5tage we have seen kamala harris on the debate stage in the democratic primary is, we have 5een democratic primary is, we have seen her in action before. we haven't seen her up against mike pence. we haven't seen him ina mike pence. we haven't seen him in a live tv debate for four year5, in a live tv debate for four years, 2016. so there will be a huge amount of attention on thi5 vice presidential debate. will it change what happens, come november three? unlikely.

sophie, thank you very much indeed for that. let's bring in our two analysts. with us to help look forward to the debate are amanda renteria, former national political directorfor hillary clinton in 2016. kamala harris of this reputation of being pretty formidable. she was in the senate committee hearings and eve ryo ne senate committee hearings and everyone will remember the great cava nagh everyone will remember the great cavanagh questioning, the william barr questioning. but asa william barr questioning. but as a debater, isn't she really quite inconsistent? she was very good, i remember, in miami,june, 2019, in very good, i remember, in miami, june, 2019, in the democratic primary. never quite regretted that magic, did she come in the letter debates? regretted that magic, did she come in the letter debate57|j think come in the letter debates?” think it is really tough when you are debating against your fellow colleagues, fellow democrats, who, not a lot of difference between the different candidates. this is quite different. this is much more likely senate hearing with cavanagh. this is much more like a traditional debate againstan like a traditional debate against an opponent that really

does think and see things differently —— senate hearing with brett kava naugh. differently —— senate hearing with brett kavanaugh. the most important difference, that i think makes this vice presidential debate different and different for her, is that the campaign has been talking about american people, but there have been few candidates to talk directly to the american people. that will be different for her. how does she do that in a way that really does connect and connect with people right now who are very nervous and scared about the direction of this country, particularly about the pandemic. good mike pence, the vice president —— could mike pence, do some way to mitigate the damage done by donald trump'5 performance la5t the damage done by donald trump'5 performance last week? if he comes across as moderate, calm, thoughtful not rude, not interrupting, it or not really, they are to separate people and

people are voting for donald trump? i think it does count. this reminds me so much of the 2004 election when the case had to be made of, do you really wa nt to be made of, do you really want to change direction, do you really want to change forces? stick with us. we are calm, we're deliberate. you don't want to hand the reins to the opposite political party. i think mike pence is going to come out and be very reassuring, saying i know you have seen the tweeds i know you have seen the tweeds i know you have heard what the president has said, but let me tell you what you have accomplished —— heard the tweets, but let me tell you what we have accomplished, what we will do in the next four years. a really soothing presence, but importantly, what president trump didn't do last week was layout and agenda. i think the vice president will come with a very strong agenda. a very positive agenda of what a

future administration with donald trump and mike pence would look like for four more years. interesting. we haven't really had a donald trump and mike pence agenda. looking back at the last four years, he has spoken about how badly he has been treated. but we are yet to know and be told what a trump—pence presidency would look like in office. calm and soothing, we definitely need some of that after last week. let me ask you something about kamala harris. this has been raised by other women and by michelle obama that, as a woman of colour, to what extent is she up on the stage this evening with the risk that, if she is critical of vice

president mike pence, if she raises her voice, she gets labelled as an angry black woman. michelle obama has said thatis woman. michelle obama has said that is what has happened to her and other women of colour in dominant positions as well. she has to be aware that is something that is going to happen? it is a sad reality of what women of colour, particularly black women face, and michelle obama has spoken to that. kamala harris has been facing this her entire life and knows that, now that she is on the stage, i hope that voice in her head about how one should act goes away and she truly does authentically lead. having seen her both on and off the stage, she has an incredible style to her as well as being tough and being able to navigate that line is

important. i note she can do it andi important. i note she can do it and i do believe that the country is now ready for seeing an authentic leader and when you get fired up about something and also when you sit back and be caring as well. i think both of these aspects have gotte n think both of these aspects have gotten easier in a world thatis have gotten easier in a world that is looking for a different style of leadership, particularly as compared to the current president we have right now. i am current president we have right now. iam hopeful about current president we have right now. i am hopeful about it but i recognise that any woman of colour recognises and if you hear black women, the task is ha rd hear black women, the task is hard and a lot of people weighing and having different comments afterwards about what went well and what did not go so well. kamala harris is been here before and she will rise to the occasion i believe she has been preparing for this her entire life. of course, we are keeping an eye on that stage at

the university of utah. the moderator is sitting down. we may break away when things really start. it will be wonderful to avoid the mean spiritedness but mike pence will be watched for any hint of sexism, or anything spun as that. i think so but i have known him for 29 years stop thatis known him for 29 years stop that is not his character, not his nature. he is a very gentle, very genial man. a lot of people like him but what i would go back to is something amanda said earlier. the audience for the vice president here is one, donald trump. donald trump is going to look at his number two and say, did you represent me well, did you comport well by your doctor we need to get straight to the

debate. susan page beginning her opening address. i am susan page of usa today. it is my honour to moderate this debate an important part of our democracy. we have a small and socially distanced order that we have taken extra precautions during this pandemic. among other things, everyone in the audience is required to wear a face mask and the candidates will be seated 12 feet apart. the audience is enthusiastic about the candidate but they have agreed to express that enthusiasm only twice, at the end of the debate and now, when i introduced the candidates. please welcome california senator kamala harris and vice president mike pence. cheering and applause. senator harris

and vice president pence, thank you for being here. we are meeting as president trump and the first lady continued to undergo treatment in washington after testing positive for covid—19. we send our thoughts and prayers to them they rapid and prayers to them they rapid and complete recovery and for the recovery of everyone afflicted coronavirus. they have agreed to the ground rules for tonight, the two candidates andi for tonight, the two candidates and i am here to enforce them on the half of the millions of americans that are watching. one note, no—one in either campaign orat the one note, no—one in either campaign or at the commission or anywhere else has been told in advance what topics i would raise and what questions others. this 90 minute debate be divided into nine of about ten minutes each. i will begin

the segment by posing a question to each of you stop sometimes the same question, sometimes the same question, sometimes a different question on the same topic. you will then have two minutes to answer without interruption by me or the other candidate then we will take six minutes or so to discuss the issue. at that point, although there will a lwa ys point, although there will always be more to say, we will move always be more to say, we will m ove o nto always be more to say, we will move onto the next topic. we wa nt move onto the next topic. we want a debate that is lively but americans also deserve a discussion that is simple. these are tumultuous times but we can and will have a respectful exchange about the big issues facing our nation. let's begin with the ongoing pandemic that has cost our country so much. senator harris, the coronavirus is not under control. over the past week, john hopkins reports that 39 states have had more covid cases over the past seven days than in the week before. nine states have set new records.

evenif states have set new records. even if the vaccine is released soon, the next administration will face hard choices. what would a guided administration do in the january would a guided administration do in thejanuary and would a guided administration do in the january and february that a trump ministration would not do. —— biden administration. would you have administration. would you have a federal mandate to wear masks? thank you, susan. well, the american people have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any presidential administration in the history of our country and here are the fa cts of our country and here are the facts — 210,000 that people deadin facts — 210,000 that people dead in our country injust facts — 210,000 that people dead in our country in just the last few months. over 7 million who have contracted this disease. one in five businesses closed. we're at frontline workers who have been treated like sacrificial workers. we're looking at over 30 million people who, in the last several

months, have had to file for unemployment and here is the thing, on january 28, unemployment and here is the thing, onjanuary 28, the vice president and the president we re president and the president were informed about the nature of this pandemic. they were informed it is lethal in consequence, that it is airborne, that it will affect young people and that it would be contracted because it is airborne. and they knew what was happening and they did not tell you stop can you imagine if you knew on january 28, as opposed to march 13th, what you might have done to prepare? that you and they covered it up. the president said it was a hoax. they minimise the seriousness of it. the president said you are on one side of this ledger if you wear a mask and on the other side did not. in spite of all of that, today they still do not have a plan. they still do not

have a plan. they still do not have a plan. whatjoe biden does, and our plan is around a national strategy for contact tracing and testing, for administration of the vaccine and making sure it will be free for all. that is the plan that joe biden has and that i have, knowing that we have to have a hold of what has been going on and we need to save our country and we need to save our country and joe biden is the best leader to do that and frankly this administration has forfeited the right to administration. thank you, senator harris. vice president pence, more than 210,000 americans have died of covid—19 since february. the percentage of our population, the death toll is higher than that of almost every other wealthy nation. 2.5 times that of canada, next door. you had the administration coronavirus task force, —— you head. why is the us death toll higher than that of almost every other wealthy

country. susan, thank you and i wa nt country. susan, thank you and i want to thank the commission and the university of utah for hosting this event and senator harris, it is a privilege to be on the stage stop our nation has gone through a very challenging time this year but i wanted the american people to know that, from the very first day, president donald trump has put the health of americans first. before they were more than five cases in the united states, or people who had returned from china, president donald trump did what no other american president had ever done and that is suspended or travelled from china, the second largest economy in the world. now, senator, joe biden opposed that decision. he said it was xenophobic and hysterical. i can tell you, having led the coronavirus task was, that decision alone but

president trump brought us invaluable time for the greatest mobilisation sent world war ii and i believe it saved hundreds of thousands of american lives because, with that time, we were able to test, we were able to sit with the delivery of billions of supplies so. as an nurses had the resources they needed, and we began to develop a vaccine and to develop medicines and therapeutics that had saving lives all the way stop under president trump leadership, we believe we will have tens of millions of doses of the vaccine before the end of this year. when you look at the joe biden plan, it reads a novel lot like but president trump and the task force have been doing every step of the way and, frankly, when i look at their planet that talks about advancing testing, creating new pp, developing a vaccine, it

looks a little bit like plagiarism which is something joe biden knows a little bit about and i think the american people know this is a president that america first and i believe with my heart that we can be proud of the sacrifices american people have made to save countless american lives. would you like to respond? absolutely. whatever the vice president claims the administration has done, clearly it has not made. you're looking at 210,000 dead bodies, american lives lost, families that are grieving that loss and, you know, the vice president is the head of the task force and new onjanuary 28 how serious this was thanks to bob woodward, we learned that they knew about it and then, when that was exposed, then, when that was exposed, the vice president said, when i asked why did you not tell everybody? he said because of

the president wanted people to remain calm. susan, this is important... mr vice president iam speaking. important... mr vice president i am speaking. you have 50 more seconds. i want to ask the american people, how come you when you were panicked about when you were panicked about when you were panicked about when you are going to get... thank you. how come you when your children could not see pa rents your children could not see parents because you were afraid they could kill them. there is not a date gone by that i have not a date gone by that i have not thought about the american families that have lost a loved one. you will always be in our hearts and in our prayers. but when you say what the american people have done did not work... if i may finish... the reality is, dr fauci said

everything he told the president into the oval office the president told the american people. president trump has boundless confidence in the american people and knew we could get these three together when you say this is not work, when you say this is not work, when dr fauci and doctor birks came to us in the second week of march, they said if the president did not take the and presenter step of shutting up the economy we could use 2.2 million americans, that is the reality. if we did everything right, we could still use and one life lost is too many but the american people i believe deserve credit for the sacrifices that they have made putting the health of their families and their neighbours first, our doctors, nurses and i'm going to speak up about what the american people have done. in the raise garden 11

days ago it seems to be a super spreader. no social distancing, few masks and now a cluster of coronavirus cases among those who were there. how can you expect americans to follow the administration? safety guidelines to protect themselves from covid when you at the white house have not been doing so? well, the american people have demonstrated over the last eight months, when given the facts, they are willing to put the health of their family and neighbours first, even people they do not know. the present andl they do not know. the present and i have great confidence in the american people and their ability to take that information and put it into practice. at the height of the epidemic, when we were losing a heartbreaking number of 2500 americans a day, we surged resources to new york, new orleans and detroit, we told the american people what needed to be done and we made the

sacrifices. when the outbreak happened in the sun belt this summer, the american people step forward. the reality is the work of the united states of america goes on. the vacancy on the supreme court of the united states has come upon us and the president introduced amy coney barrett... there was a great deal of speculation about it, my wife karen and i we re about it, my wife karen and i were there and we were honoured to be there was that many people at the event were tested to be coronavirus —— it was an honour to be there. many people at that event were tested for coronavirus. the difference is, the president and i trust the american people to make the best choices for their health. joe biden and kamala harris continually talk about mandates, and not just continually talk about mandates, and notjust mandates with the coronavirus, but that a government take over healthcare. thank you. we are about freedom and respecting the freedom of the american people. let's talk about

respecting the american people. you respect the american people when you tell them the truth was that you respect the american people when you have the courage to be a leader, speaking of those things you may not want people to hear but they need to hear so they can protect themselves. but this administration stood on information that if you had as a parent, if you had as a worker, knowing you didn't have enough money saved up and now you are standing in the food line, because of the ineptitude ofan line, because of the ineptitude of an administration that was unwilling to speak the truth to the american people. so, let's talk about caring about the american people. the american people have had to sacrifice far too much because of the incompetence of this administration. it is asking too much of the people. it is asking too much of the people. that they would not be equipped with the information they need to help themselves to protect themselves and their children. kamala harris, senator harris,

amen. i am kamala. kamala harris, senator harris, amen. iam kamala. -- kamala harris, senator harris, amen. i am kamala. -- senator harris, amen. half of americans now so they wouldn't take a vaccine if it was really is now -- if it vaccine if it was really is now —— if it was released now. if the residency releases a vaccine before the election, would you take it? if doctor faucl h would you take it? if doctor fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, i will be the first in line to take it, absolutely. but if donald trump tells us, i'm not taking it. vice president pans, there has been a lot of repercussions from this pandemic. in recent days, the president's diagnosis of covid—19 has underscored the importance of the job you hold and are seeking. that is our second topic tonight. it is the role of the vice president. one of you will make history on january 20, you will be the vice president to the oldest president united states has ever had. donald trump will be

7a years old on inauguration day, joe biden will be years old. that has already raised concern among some voters, concerns that have been sharpened by president trump's hospitalisation in recent days. vice president pence, have you had a conversation or reach an agreement with president trump about safeguards or procedures when it comes to the issue of presidential disability? and if not, do you think you should? you have two minutes without interruption. well, susan, thank you. well, i would like to go back. we do need to move on. i would like to go back. the reality is we are going to have a vaccine, senator, in record time, in unheard of time, in less than a year. we have five companies in phase three clinical trials. and we are right now producing tens of millions of doses. so the fact that you continue to undermine public confidence in a vaccine,

ifa public confidence in a vaccine, if a vaccine emerges during the trump administration, i think thatis trump administration, i think that is unconscionable. and senator, ijust ask that is unconscionable. and senator, i just ask you, that is unconscionable. and senator, ijust ask you, stop playing politics with people's lives. the reality is we will have a vaccine, we believe, before the end of this year. and it will have the capacity to they outlets american lives and your continuous undermining of confidence in a vaccine is just, it isjust of confidence in a vaccine is just, it is just unacceptable. and let me also say, you know, the reality is when you talk about failure of this administration stop we actually do know what failure looks like ina do know what failure looks like in a pandemic. —— in this administration. we actually do know what failure looks like. swine flu ended up in the united states in 2009. thankfully, it was not as lethal as coronavirus. but before the end of the year, whenjoe biden was as president of united states, not 7.5 million people contracted the

—— swine flu, 60 million. if these wife who had been as lethal as coronavirus in 2009 -- if lethal as coronavirus in 2009 —— if swine flu. as own staff we re —— if swine flu. as own staff were saying it was pure luck they did everything possible, wrong. and, we learned from that. they left the strategic national stockpile md, they left a n national stockpile md, they left an empty and hollow plan. but we still learned. —— stockpile empty. the vice president pence, i am sorry, we're out of time. thank you. senator harris, let me ask you the same question i asked vice president pence. which is, how you had a conversation or reach an agreement with vice president biden about safeguards or procedures when it comes to the issue of presidential disability, and if not, and if you win the election next month, do you

think you should? you have two minutes uninterrupted. let me tell you first of all, the day i got the call from joe biden, it was actually a zoom call asking me to serve with him on this ticket was probably one of the most memorable days of my life. i thought about my mother, who came to the united states at the age of 19, gave birth to me at the age of 25, at kaiser hospital in oakland, california. and the thought i would be sitting here right now, i know would make her proud, and she must be looking down on this. joe and i were raised in a very similar way. we were raised with values that are about hard work, about the value and the dignity of public service. and about the importance of fighting for the dignity of all people. and i thinkjoe asked me to serve with him because, you know, i have a career that included being elected the first woman,

district attorney, san francisco, where i created models of innovation for law enforcement in terms of reform and the criminal justice system. i was elected the first woman of colour, black woman, to be elected attorney general at the state of california, where i ran the second largest department ofjustice in the united states, second only to the united states department of justice, and there i took on everything from transnational criminal organisations the big banks that were taking advantage of homeowners, to for—profit colleges. now i serve in united states senate is only the second black woman ever elected to the united states senate, i serve on the senate committee, where i have beenin senate committee, where i have been in regular receipt of classified information about threats to our nation and hot spots was that i have travelled the world and met with soldiers in war zones. and i thinkjoe has asked me to serve with him because he knows we share, we share, a purpose which is about lifting up the american people

and after the four years we have seen a donald trump unifying our country around our common values and principles. neither president trump nor biden has released detailed health information that had become the modern norm until the 2016 election. in recent days, president trump was my doctors have given misleading a nswe rs doctors have given misleading answers or refusing to answer basic questions about his health. my question to each of you in turn, is, is this information voters deserve to know? vice president pence is denmark would you like to go first. thank you. -- vice president pence? 0n first. thank you. -- vice president pence? on behalf of the president and first lady, i like to say how moved we have all been by the of prayers and concern for the president. and ido concern for the president. and i do believe it is emblematic of the prayers and the concern that have ushered four for

every american impacted by the coronavirus. the care the president received at walter reed hospital, white house doctors, was exceptional. and the transparency they have practised all along the way will continue, so the american people have the right to know about health and wellbeing of their president and will continue to do that. and i am just extremely grateful and was more than a little moved by the broad and bipartisan support. senator, i want to thank you and yourjoe biden for your expressions of genuine concern. i also want to congratulate you, as i did on the phone call, on the historic nature of your nomination. i never expected to be on the stage four years ago, so i know the feeling. but, the reality is, we have an election for the american people and in the midst of this challenging year, the stakes have never been higher. thank you, vice president. i want to give senator harris a chance to respond to the same question.

voters have a right to know more detailed health information about presidential candidates, and especially about presidents especially when they are facing some kind of challenge? absolutely. that is whyjoe biden has been so incredibly —— that is whyjoe biden has been so incredibly transparent, in terms of health records and taxes. we now know because of great investigative journalism that donald trump paid journalism that donald trump pa id $750 journalism that donald trump paid $750 in taxes. when i first heard about it, i literally said, you mean $750,000? and it was like, no, $750. we now know donald trump owes, and is in doubt, for $a00 million, and just so everyone is clear, when we say in debt, it means you owe money to somebody. and it would be really good to know who the president of united the commander—in—chief, owes money to. because the american people have a right to know what is

influencing the president does make decisions. and is he making those decisions on the best interests of the american people? 0r self—interest? so, susan, i'm glad you asked about transparency, because it has to be across—the—board. joe has been incredibly transparent over many, many years. the one thing we all know aboutjoe — he puts it all out there. he is honest, he is forthright, but donald trump on the other hand has been covering up everything. thank you, senator. vice president? i respect the fa ct vice president? i respect the fact thatjoe vice president? i respect the fact that joe biden spent 47 years in public life, and i respect your public service as well. thank you. the american people have a businessman as president, job creator, who has a sense of millions of dollars in taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes, he has created tens of thousands of american jobs and the president said

those public reports are not accurate. the president has also released literally stuck the financial disclosure to the american people that they can review —— american people that they can review — — stacks. american people that they can review —— stacks. but the distinction here isjoe biden, 47 years in public service compared to president donald trump who brought all of that experience four years ago. thank you. and turn this economy around by rolling back taxes and regulation, energy, free and fairtrade... taxes and regulation, energy, free and fair trade. .. thank you. you know, that is a good segue into our third topic, which is about the economy. this has been another aspect of life for americans, it has been so affected by this coronavirus. we have a jobs crisis room. 0n coronavirus. we have a jobs crisis room. on friday, we learnt the unemployment rate had declined to 7.9% in september, but the job growth had stalled, and that was before the latest round of lay—offs and furloughs in the airline industry, disney and elsewhere. hundreds of

thousands of discouraged workers have stopped looking for work. nearly 11 workers have stopped looking forwork. nearly 11 million jobs that existed at the beginning of the year have not been replaced. those hardest hit include latinos, blacks and women. senator harris, the biden— harris campaign has promised to pay for his spending by raising $a trillion in taxes on wealthy individuals and corporations. some economists warned that could curb entrepreneurial that fuel growth and create jobs. curb entrepreneurial that fuel growth and createjobs. would raising taxes put the recovery at risk? you have two 0n the issue of the economy, i couldn't think there would be a more fundamental difference between donald trump and joe biden. joe biden believes you measure the health and strength of america's economy based on the health and strength of the american worker and the american worker and the american family. 0n the other hand, you had donald trump who

measures the strength of the economy based on how rich people are doing. that is why he passed a tax bill benefiting the top 1% and the biggest corporations of america, leading to a $2 trillion deficit that the american people are going to have to pay for. on day one, joe biden will repel that tax bill, he will get rid of it. and what he will do with the money is invested in the american people. through a plan about investing in infrastructure, something donald trump that he would do. i remember something about an infrastructure week that never happened. joe biden will do that, he will invest in infrastructure, upgrade road and ridges and investing in clea n and ridges and investing in clean energy and renewable energy. he will invest that money and what we need to do around innovation. there was a time when our country believed in science and invested in research and develop meant so that we were an innovation leader in the globe. joe biden will use that money to invest

in education. so for example, for folks who want to go to a two year community college, it will be free. if you come from afamily will be free. if you come from a family that makes less than free, you'll get a public university for free. and across—the—board, we'll university for free. and across—the—boa rd, we'll make sure that if you have student loa n sure that if you have student loan debt, it will be cut by $10,000. that is whatjoe biden inks about the economy, it is about investing in the people of our country rather than to passing a tax which had the benefit of having american corporations go offshore to do their business. thank you senator harris. your administration has been predicting a rapid and robust recovery but the latest economic reports suggest that is not happening. should americans be braced for an economic comeback that is going to ta ke economic comeback that is going to take not months but a year or more? you have two minutes to a nswer or more? you have two minutes to answer uninterrupted. when president trump and i took office, america had gone through this lowest economic recovery since the great depression. whenjoe

recovery since the great depression. when joe biden recovery since the great depression. whenjoe biden was vice president, he tried to tax and spend and regulate and bail out our way back to a growing economy. president trump cut taxes across—the—board. despite what senator harris says, the average american family of four in savings and taxes. and with the rise in wages that occurred, most predominantly for blue—collar, ha rd—working americans, the average household income for a family of four increased by $a000 following president trump's tax cuts. but america, you just heard senator harris tell you that on day one, joe biden is going to raise your taxes. it is really remarkable to think. write after a time when we are going for a pandemic that lost 22 millionjobs at going for a pandemic that lost 22 million jobs at the height, we have already added back 11.6 millionjobs because we had a president who cut taxes, rollback regulation, unleashed american energy, thought for free and fair trade and secured $4 free and fair trade and secured $a trillion from the congress of states to give direct

payments to families, say 50 millionjobs through payments to families, say 50 million jobs through the paid —— paycheck detection program. we're so no expense to help the american workerfor we're so no expense to help the american worker for this. they wa nt to american worker for this. they want to raise taxes, bury our economy under a $2 trillion green nude deal which you were one of the original co—sponsors of in the united states senate. they want to abolish fossil fuels and an fracking which would cost hundreds of thousands of american jobs all across the heartland. and joe biden wants to go back to the economic surrender to china where when we took office, half of the international trade deficit was of china alone and joe biden wants to repeal all of the tariffs that president trump put into five american jobs and workers. joe biden says democracy is on the ballot, make no mistake about it susan, the american economy, the american comeback is on the ballot with four more years of growth and opportunities, four more yea rs growth and opportunities, four more years of president donald

trump. 2021 is going to be the biggest economic year in history of this country. thank you vice president. senator harris was blue we saw enough of it in last week's debate on this are supposed to be a debate based on fact and true. trip only factors that biden has been very clear, he will not raise taxes on anyone who makes less than $a00,000 a year. iam makes less than $a00,000 a year. i am speaking as the vice president. the important thing is to say the trip. he said it twice in the debate last week that he is going to repeal the trump tax cuts. those were tax cuts that gave the average working family $2000 and a tax break working family $2000 and a tax brea k every working family $2000 and a tax break every single year. that is absolutely not true. is he only going to repeal part of the trump tax cuts? if you don't mind letting me finish, we can have a conversation, 0k? joe biden will not raise taxes on anyone who makes less than $400,000 a on anyone who makes less than $a00,000 a year. he has been very clear about that. he will not end fracking, he has been

very clear about that. joe biden is the ones who during the great recession was responsible for the recovery act that brought america back and now the trump, administration wants to take the credit of writing the coatta ils of the credit of writing the coattails ofjoe biden's successfully economy had at the beginning of that term. of course, the economy is beginning of that term. of course, reigned omy is beginning of that term. of course, reigned over is beginning of that term. of course, reigned over a session who has reigned over a session thatis who has reigned over a session that is being compared to the great depression. 0n the one hand, you havejoe biden who was responsible with president barack obama for the affordable ca re barack obama for the affordable care act, which brought healthcare to over 20 million americans and protected people with pre—existing conditions. what also did is it safe those families who otherwise were going bankrupt because of hospital bills they could not afford. 0n the other hand, you

have donald trump was in court right now trying to get read of the affordable care act which means that you will lose protections if you have pre—existing conditions. and this is very important susan. we need to give him a chance. he interrupted me and i'd like to just he interrupted me and i'd like tojust finish. he interrupted me and i'd like to just finish. please. he interrupted me and i'd like tojust finish. please. if he interrupted me and i'd like to just finish. please. if you have a pre—existing condition, heart disease, diabetes, breast cancer, they are coming for you. if you love someone who has a pre—existing condition, they are coming for you, if you're under the age of 26 on your parent's coverage, they are coming for you. senator harris, thank you. a chance to respond. i would like to give you a chance to talk about healthcare because obamacare was a disaster. the american people remember it well. president trump and i have a plan to improve health and protect people with pre—existing conditions for every american. look, senator harris, you are entitled to your own opinion but were not entitled to your own facts. you

yourself said on multiple occasions when you're running for president that you would band fracking. joe biden looked a supporter in the eye and pointed and said i guarantee, i guarantee that we will abolish fossil fuels. they have got a $2 trillion version of the green new deal that your newspaper, usa today, said wasn't really that different from the original green new deal. more taxes, more regulations, banning fracking, polishing fossil fuel, crushing american energy, and economic surrender to china is a prescription or economic decline. president trump and i will keep america growing. the v shaped recovery that is under way right now will continue underfour way right now will continue under four more years of president donald trump. thank you very much mike pence. once again you provided the perfect segue to the next topic which is climate change. vice

president pence, we have seen record hurricanes in the cell. another one is currently threatening the l. and we have got record—setting wildfires in the west. do you believe as the scientific community has concluded that man—made climate change has made wildfires bigger, hotter and more deadly and have made hurricane sweater, slower and more damaging. you have got two minutes uninterrupted. thank you susan. first i am very proud on our record on the environment and conservation. according to all of the best estimates, our air and land are clean—up than any time ever recorded. and our water is among the cleanest in the world. just a little while ago, the president signed the outdoors act, largest investment in outdoor parks in a hundred years. he has made a commitment to conservation of the environment. with regards to climate change, the climate is changing. the issue is, what

is changing. the issue is, what is the cause and what do we do about it? president trump has made it clear that we are going to continue to listen to the science. joe biden and, harris would put us back in the paris climate accord imposing a green new deal that would crush american energy, increase the energy cost of american families in their homes and literally would crush american jobs. president trump and i agree that the progress we have made ina agree that the progress we have made in a cleaner environment has been happening precisely because we have a strong free market economy. what is remarkable is that the united states has reduced c02 more than the countries that are still in the paris climate accords. but we have done for innovation and we have done it for a gas and fracking. which, senator, the american people can go look at the record. i knowjoe biden says otherwise now, as you do, but the both of

you repeatedly committed to fossil fuel you repeatedly committed to fossilfuel and you repeatedly committed to fossil fuel and banning fracking. so by creating the kind of american innovation, we are actually staring towards a stronger and better environment. with regards to wildfires, president trump and i believe that forest management has to be front and centre. even governor gavin newsome agrees we have to work on forest management. with regards to hurricane's, the national oceanic administration tells that that actually, as difficult as they are, there are no more hurricane today than there were a hundred years ago. but many of the climate alarmists use hurricane's and wildfires to try and. thank you vice president pence. to try and put forward a green new deal. thank you. president trump andi deal. thank you. president trump and i are going to put americanjobs trump and i are going to put american jobs and workers first. as the vice president mentioned, you've co—sponsored the green new deal in congress. vice president biden said in last week's debate that he does not support the green new deal. if you look at the biden,

harris, campaign website, it describes the green new deal is a crucial framework. what exactly would be the stance of a biden harris administration towards the green new deal? you have two minutes uninterrupted. sure, first of all, i will repeat and the american people know thatjoe biden will not ban fracking. that is a fact. that is a factor. i will repeat —— fact, thatjoe biden has been very clear that he thinks about growing jobs, which is why he will not increase taxes for anyone who makes less than $400,000 a for anyone who makes less than $a00,000 a year. his economic plan, movies, which is as a reputable wall street firm, says it will create 7 million morejobs than says it will create 7 million more jobs than donald trump's. pa rt more jobs than donald trump's. part of those jobs created by joe biden are going to be about clea n joe biden are going to be about clean energy and renewable energy. because, you see, joe understands that the west coast

of our country is burning, including my home state of california. joe sees what is happening in the gulf states which are being battered by storms. joe has seen and talked with the farmers in iowa whose entire crops have been destroyed because of floods. and sojoe believes again in science. i tell you something susan, i served, science. i tell you something susan, iserved, when science. i tell you something susan, i served, when i first got to the centre, on the committee responsible for the environment. do you know, this administration took the word science of the website and then took the phrase climate change of the website. we have seen a pattern of this administration which says they don't believe in science. and joe's plan is about saying we're going to do with it but also create job's. donald trump, when asked about the wildfires in california and the wildfires in california and the question was, you know, the science is telling us this, do you know what donald trump said? he said science doesn't know. so let's talk about who is prepared to lead our country over the course of the next

four years on what is an ex— threat to us as human beings. joe is about saying we're going to invest in renewable energy, about the creation of renewable jobs —— existential. net zero emissions by 2050, carbon neutral by 2035. joe has a plan. there's been a lot of talk from the drop administration but really it has been about going backwards rather than forwards. we will also re—enter the climate agreement with pride. senator harris said that climate change is an existential threat, vice president pence, do you believe climate change poses an essential threat? as i said susan, the climate is changing will for the science. once again, senator harris, she is denying the fact that they are going to raise taxes on every american. joe biden said twice in the debate last week that on day one he was going to repeal the tax cuts. those tax cuts delivered $2000 in tax relief

to the average family of four across america. with regard to banning fracking, i just across america. with regard to banning fracking, ijust reckon when the people look at the record, you yourself said repeatedly that you would ban fracking. you are the first senate co—sponsor of the green new deal. and while joe biden denied the green new deal, susan, thank you for pointing out, the green new deal is on the campaign website. as usa today said, it is essentially the same plan as the one co—sponsored with aoc when you cemented into the centre. just 307i cemented into the centre. just 307i say that they will put america back into the paris climate accords. the american people have a less cherished the environment and will continue to cherish it. we have made great progress in reducing c02 emissions. and through american innovation and the development of natural gas through fracking. we do not need a massive $2 trillion green new deal that would impose only mandates on american businesses and american businesses and american families. joe biden

wants us to retrofit $4 million american business buildings. it makes no sense. it will cost jobs. president trump will put america first helpjobs furthermore take over the environment of quality science. let's talk about that. the vice president earlier referred, as pa rt president earlier referred, as part of what he thinks is an accomplishment, the president's trade war with china. you lost that trade war. you lost it. what ended up happening is because of a so—called trade war with china america lost 300,000 manufacturing jobs. farmers have experienced ba n kru ptcy farmers have experienced bankruptcy because of it. we are ina bankruptcy because of it. we are in a manufacturing recession because of it. and when we look at where this administration has been, there are estimates that by the end of the term of this administration they will have lost morejobs

administration they will have lost more jobs than almost any other presidential administration, and the american people know what i am talking about. you know, i think about 20 —year—olds, we have a 20—year—old, a 20 something year old coming out of high school and college and you are wondering is there going to be a job for me? we're looking at people who are trying to figure out how they will pay rent by the end of the month, almost half of american renters a re month, almost half of american renters are worried about whether they be able to pay rent by the end of the month. this is where the economy is in america right now and it is because of the catastrophe and the failure of leadership of this administration. thank you senator harris. let me give you 15 seconds to respond and then i want to move on. i would love to respond. lost the trade war with china? joe biden never fought it. joe biden has been a cheerleader for communist china

over the last several decades, and again, senator harris, you are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. joe biden as president lost 200,000 manufacturing jobs and president obama said we never will bring the backstop in our first three years after we cut taxes and rollback regulation, unleased american energy, this administration saw 500,000 manufacturing jobs created, that's exactly the kind of growth we will continue to see as we bring our nation through this pandemic. your paris claimant accord, it will kill jobs this time just like intel'sjobs. jobs this time just like intel's jobs. i need to respond very briefly. joe biden is responsible for saving america's auto industry and you voted against it, so let's get the record straight. i would like to talk about china. we have as our next topic. we have no more complicated or consequentialforeign

relationship than the one with china. it is a huge market for american agricultural goods, a potential partner in dealing with climate change and north korea, and in a video tonight, president trump blamed china for the coronavirus, saying china will pay. how would you describe our fundamental relationship with china? competitor, adverse areas, enemies? you have two minutes. let me speak to voting records ifi let me speak to voting records if i can. everybody knows that napster cost thousands of american factories to close —— nafta. president trump board to renegotiate nafta in the united states mexico canister agreement is not the law of the land. senator kamala harris was only ten members of the senate to vote against the us mca. it

was a huge win for american auto workers, a huge win for american farmers, especially dairy. senator, you said it didn't go farenough dairy. senator, you said it didn't go far enough on climate change, that you put your radical environmental agenda ahead of american auto workers and jobs. that is probably why newsweek magazine said that kamala harris was the most liberal memberof kamala harris was the most liberal member of the united states senate in 2019, more liberal than bernie sanders, more liberal than any of the others in the united states senate, so with regard to china, first and foremost, china, first and foremost, china is to blame for the coronavirus. president trump is not happy about that. he has made that very clear. china and the world health organization have not played straight to the american people. they do not let our personnel entertainer to get information on the

coronavirus until the middle of february. fortunately president trump, in dealing with toner from the outset of this administration, standing up to china that had been taking advantage of america for decades in the wake ofjoe biden's cheerleading for china, he made the decision to suspend all travel from china and again, the american people deserve more. joe biden opposed trumpet's decision to suspend all travel from china. we are going to continue to stand strong, we want to improve the relationship but we will be levelling the playing field and holding china accountable for what they did to america with the coronavirus. let me ask you the coronavirus. let me ask you the same question. how would you describe our fundamental relationship with china? competitors, emissaries, enemies — adverse areas?

competitors, emissaries, enemies - adverse areas? the trump administration's perspective and approach to china has resulted in the loss of american lives, american jobs, and america's standing. there is a weird obsession that president trump has had with getting rid of whatever accomplishment was achieved by president obama and vice president obama and vice president biden. for example, they created within the white house and office that basically was responsible for monitoring pandemics. they got rid of it. there was a team of disease experts that president obama and vice president biden dispatched to china to monitor what is now predictable and what is now predictable and what might happen. they pulled them out of. we now are looking

at 210,000 americans who have lost their lives. let's look at thejob situation. we mentioned before, the trade deal, the trade war they wanted to call it with china. it resulted in the loss of over 300 manufacturing jobs and a manufacturing jobs and a manufacturing recession, and the american consumer paid thousands of dollars more for goods because of that failed war that they called it. let's talk about standing. the reputable research firm has done an analysis that shows that leaders of all of our formally allied countries have now decided that they hold in greater esteem and respect xi jingping, the head of the chinese communist party than they do donald trump, the president of the united states, the commander—in—chief of the united states. this is where we are today. because of a failure of leadership by this

administration. senator harris, we have seen changes in the role of the united states in terms of global leadership over the past four years, and times do change. what is your definition? we have seen strains with china, strains with our traditional allies, what is your definition of the role of american leadership in 2020? i love talking with joe about a lot of these issues, andjoe, i about a lot of these issues, and joe, i think he said it quite well, he said foreign policy might sound complicated but really it's relationships, and we know this, in a personal professional relationships, you need to keep your word to your friends, you have to be loyal to your friends, people that have stood with you, you have to stand with them, you have to know your adverse areas are and keep them in check but what we have seen with donald trump is

that he has betrayed our friends and embraced dictators around the world. let's take for example, russia. iserve around the world. let's take for example, russia. i serve on the intelligence committee of the intelligence committee of the united states senate. america's intelligence community told us russia interfered in the election of the president of the united states in 2016 and is doing it in 2020. the director of the fbi said the same. donald trump, the commander—in—chief of the united states of america, refers to take the word of vladimir putin over the word of vladimir putin over the word of vladimir putin over the word of the american intelligence community. you look at our friends in nato. intelligence community. you look at ourfriends in nato. he has walked away from agreements. look at the iran nuclear deal, which now has put us in nuclear deal, which now has put usina nuclear deal, which now has put us in a position where we are less safe because they are building up what might end up being a significant nuclear

arsenal. we were in that deal, we we re arsenal. we were in that deal, we were in the iran nuclear deal with friends, allies around the country and because of donald trump's unilateral approach to foreign policy coupled with his isolationism, he pulled us out and has made america less safe, so susan, it's about relationships, and the thing that has always been pa rt the thing that has always been part of the strength of our nation in addition to our great military, has been that we keep our word, but donald trump does not understand that because he does not understand what it means to be honest. thank you senator harris. let me give you a chance to respond vice president. president kept his word when we move the american embassy to jerusalem, the capital of the state of israel. whenjoe capital of the state of israel. when joe biden was capital of the state of israel. whenjoe biden was president they promise to do that but neverdid. we they promise to do that but never did. we stood strong with our allies but we have been demanding. nato is now contributing more to our defence than ever before thanks to president trump's

leadership. we have strengthened our alliances across the asia— pacific, strengthened our alliances across the asia—pacific, and we have stood strong against those who would do us harm. when president trump came into office, islamic state had captured an area of the middle east the size of pennsylvania. president trump unless the american military and our armed forces destroyed the islamic state and took out the leader without one american casualties. he was responsible for the death of thousands, but notably america's parts today, whose parents aren't here with us tonight, today, two of the islamic state killers responsible for kaylee miller's murder were brought to justice in united states. jihadi john was killed on the battlefield. the reality is that when joe biden was vice president we had an opportunity to save people,

and it breaks my heart to reflect people but the military came into the oval office and presented a plan that said they knew where caleb was, bagdahdi had held the four months, but whenjoe had held the four months, but when joe biden was had held the four months, but whenjoe biden was president they hesitated for a month and when armed forces finally went m, when armed forces finally went in, it was clear she had been moved in, it was clear she had been m ove d two in, it was clear she had been moved two days earlier and her family says with a heart that broke the heart of every american, that if president donald trump was president they believe that caleb would be alive today. we destroyed islamic state and we talk about re—entering the iran nuclear deal stop in the last administration transferred $1.8 billion to the leading state sponsor of terrorism, president donald trump got us out of the deal and when he was travelling to baghdad, the harm to americans, he took him out, and

americans, he took him out, and america is safer, our allies are safer and the american people know president donald trump will never. i would like to give senator harris a chance to give senator harris a chance to respond but not such great length. but i would like equal time. first of all, to the muellerfamily, i time. first of all, to the mueller family, i know time. first of all, to the muellerfamily, i know about your daughter's case and i am so sorry. i am so sorry. what happened to her is awful. it should never have happened. i knowjoe feels the same way. i knowjoe feels the same way. i know that president obama feels the same way. but you mentioned slimani. after the strike on him there was a counterstrike on our troops in a row, and they suffered serious brain injuries — iraq. and you know

what donald trump dismissed them as? headaches. this is a pattern of donald trump, where he has referred to our man who was serving in our military as suckers and losers, donald trump, who went to arlington cemetery and stood above the graves of our fallen heroes and said what's in it for them? because of course, he only thinks about what is in it for him. let's take what he said aboutjohn mccain, a great american hero, and donald trump says he doesn't deserve to be called a hero because he was a prisoner of war. this is very important, when you want to talk about who is the current commander—in—chief, and what they care about and what they don't care about. public reporting that russia had bounties on the heads of

american soldiers, and you know what a bounty is? it's somebody put a price on your head and they will pay it if you are killed. donald trump had talked at least six times two vladimir putin and never brought up the subject. joe biden would never do that, joe biden would hold russia to account for any threats to our nation's security or to our troops who are sacrificing their lives for the sake of our democracy and safety. this is such an important issue and we have other important issues to talk about as well. 15 seconds because were trying to keep it, i'm sorry mr vice president but you have had more time than she has had so far. these slanders against president donald trump regarding the men and women of our armed forces are absurd. i'm sorry —

our armed forces are absurd. i'm sorry - my son is a captain in the marine corps, my son—in—law is in the united states navy. i can assure all of you, to the sons and daughters serving the military, president donald trump not only respects but reveres all of those who serve in our armed forces and suggestion otherwise is ridiculous. let me also say - vice president is ridiculous. let me also say — vice president pence, i did not crosstalk i did not create the rules for tonight, your campaigns agreed to the rules for tonight's debate with the commission on presidential debates. i am commission on presidential debates. iam here commission on presidential debates. i am here to enforce them which results from moving from one topic to another, giving roughly equal time to both of you which is what i'm very trying very hard to do. i wa nt to very trying very hard to do. i want to move to the next topic which is as important as the last topic was. that is the supreme court. on monday, the senatejudicial supreme court. on monday, the senate judicial mary donna committee is set to open

discussions on the confirmation of senator amy coney barrett. it would cement the courts conservative majority and make it lightly touch to more abortion restrictions or overturning the landmark wove a raid — roe v wade. vice president pence, you're from indiana, if roe v wade is overturned, would you want your home state to ban all abortions? i will use a little bit of my time to respond to the very important issue before. the american people need to know that the iranian general soleimani was responsible for the death of hundreds of american servicemen. when the opportunity came, president trump didn't hesitate and soleimani is gone. you deserve to know thatjoe biden and kamala harris actually criticise the decision to take

out soleimani. it is really inexplicable but in regards to joe biden, it is explainable because history records that joe biden actually oppose the raid against osama bin laden. it is absolutely essential that we have a commander—in—chief who will not hesitate to act to protect him lives and protect american servicemen and that is what you have with president donald trump. with regard to the supreme court of united states, let me say that president trump and i could not be more about the opportunity to see thejudge be more about the opportunity to see the judge periphery become the justice amy coney barrett. she is a brilliant woman and she will ring a lifetime of experience and a sizeable american family to the supreme court of the united states. and our hope is in the hearing next week, unlike justice brett kava naugh received treatment from you and others, that she gets a fair hearing. and we particularly hope that we don't see the kind of attacks on her christian faith that we saw before when

the democrat chairman of the judiciary hearing before when judge barrett was being confirmed for the court of appeals expressed concern that the dogma of her faith lived loudly in her. the representative from illinois that it was a concern. i know, as one of ourjudicial nominees, you're attacked because you were a member of the catholic knights of columbus just because the knights of columbus holds pro life is. so my hope is when the hearing takes place thatjudge amy coney barrett will be respected and treated respectfully and voted and confirmed into the supreme court of united states. senator harris, you are senator who is a former attorney general of california. let me ask you a parallel question to the one i proposed to the vice president. if roe v. wade is overturned, what would you want california to do? would you want your homestay is to enact no restrictions on access to abortion and you have two

minutes uninterrupted. thank you susan. first of all, joe biden andl you susan. first of all, joe biden and i are both people of faith and it is insulting to suggest that we would knock anyone for their faith and in fa ct, anyone for their faith and in fact, joe, if elected would be only the second practising catholic as president of the united states. on the issue of this domination, joe and i are very clear, as this domination, joe and i are very clear, as are this domination, joe and i are very clear, as are the majority of the american people. we are 27 days before the decision about who will be the next president of the united states. before, when this conversation has come up, it's been about election time. we are literally in an election. over 4 million people have voted. people are in the process of voting rights now. so joe has in the process of voting rights now. sojoe has been very clear, as the american people are, less the american people feel that seat in the white house and then we will feel

that seat in the outside supreme court. the point, susan, the issues before us couldn't be more serious. there is the issue of choice, and i will also always fight for a woman's right to make the decision about her own body, should be her decision and not that of donald trump or the vice president mike pence. that's also look at what is also before the court, the afforda ble also before the court, the affordable care act. literally in the midst of a public—health pandemic, when over 210,000 people have died and 7 million people have died and 7 million people probably have what will be in the future considered a pre—existing condition because you contracted the virus. donald trump is incorporate now trying to get rid of the afforda ble trying to get rid of the affordable care act. i said it before and it bears repeating, this means that there will be no more protections if they we nt no more protections if they went for people with pre—existing conditions. this means that over 20 million people will lose your coverage.

it means that if you are under the age of 26, you can't stay on your parents coverage anymore and here is the thing. the contrast couldn't be more clear, they are trying to get rid of the affordable care act, joe biden is saying, let's expand coverage, give you a choice of a public option or private coverage. bring down premiums, lower medicare eligibility to 60. that is true leadership. you mentioned earlier, vice president pence, that the president was committed to maintaining protections for people with pre—existing conditions. but we do have this court case that you are supporting, your administration is supporting that would strike down the affordable care act. the president says, president trump says that he is going to protect people with pre—existing conditions but he has not explained how he would do that. and that was one of the toughest nuts to crack when passing the affordable care act. how would your

administration protect americans with pre—existing commissions, conditions, have access to affordable insurance if the affordable care act is struck down? thank you, susan. let mejust say, struck down? thank you, susan. let me just say, addressing your very first question. i couldn't be more proud to serve as vice president to a president who stands without apology for the sanctity of human life. i am pro life and i don't apologise for it. and this is another one of those cases where there is such a dramatic contrast. joe biden and, harris support taxpayer funded abortion all the way up to the moment of birth. late term abortion, they want to increase funding to planned parenthood of america. our part, i would parenthood of america. our part, iwould never parenthood of america. our part, i would never presume or judge amy coney barrett would rule on the supreme court on the united states but we will continue to stand strong for the right to life. when you speak about the supreme court though, i think the american people really deserve an answer, senator harris. are you and joe biden going to pack the court if amy coney barrett is

confirmed? there court if amy coney barrett is confirmed ? there have court if amy coney barrett is confirmed? there have been 29 vacancies in the supreme court in election years from george washington to president obama. your party is actually openly advocating adding seats to the supreme court which has had nine seats for 150 years if you don't get away. this is a classic case of he can't win by the rules, you going to change the rules, you going to change the rules. you have refused to a nswer the rules. you have refused to answer the question, joe biden has a few sensitive question. i think the american people really like to know ifjudge amy coney barrett is confirmed to the supreme court of the united states, are you and joe biden, somehow you win the selection, going to pack the supreme court to get your way? lam supreme court to get your way? iamso supreme court to get your way? i am so glad we went through a little history lesson. so that a little more. in 1864. iwould like you to answer the question. i am speaking. like you to answer the question. iam speaking. in 1864, one of there, i think

political heroes, certainly of the president and i assume with you mr vice president is abraham lincoln. abraham lincoln was up for re—election and it was 27 days before the election and a seat became open on the united states supreme court. abraham lincoln's party was in charge, not only of the white house but of the senate. but honest abe said, it is not the right thing to do. the american people deserve to make the decision about who will be the decision about who will be the next president of the united states and then that person can select who will serve for a lifetime on the highest court of our land. and so, joe and i are very clear, the american people are voting right now and it should be their decision about who will serve on this most important body for a lifetime. thank you senator harris. level right now, they will like to know if you and joe biden are going to pack the supreme court if you

don't get your way in this domination? let's talk about packing. once again, you gave a nona nswer. packing. once again, you gave a nonanswer. joe biden gavin on answer. i'm trying to answer you now. people deserve a straight answer and the freight a nswer straight answer and the freight answer is they are going to pack the supreme court if they somehow in the selection will stop men and women, i gotta tell you, the people across this country, if you cherish the supreme court, the separation of powers, you need to project the biden harris ticket, november three and re—elected president donald trump and we will stand by that separation of powers with the nine seats of the supreme court. let's talk about packing court. please. i'm about to. so, the trump pence administration, i have witnessed lifetime appointments to district courts, court of appeal, people who are purely

ideological, people have been reviewed by legal professional organisations and been found to not be competent, substantive. and you know, that of the 50 people who president trump appointed to the court of appeals for lifetime appointments, not one of that is black. this is what they have been doing. you want to talk about packing the court, let's have a discussion. thank you senator. let's go in and talk about the issue of racial justice. i just talk about the issue of racial justice. ijust want talk about the issue of racial justice. i just want the record to reflect that she never a nswered to reflect that she never answered the question. maybe in the next debate, joe biden lesslie question but i think the american people need to know. thank you mr vice president. in march, breonna taylor, a 27—year—old emergency technician in louisville were shot and killed after police officers pursuing a narcotics investigation broke into office. the police that identified themselves. her boyfriend said he didn't hear them do that. he is they gun registered to him to fire a shot which wounded an officer.

the officers then fired more than 20 rounds into the apartment. they say they were acting in self defence. none of them have been indicted with connection to her death. senator harris, in the case of breonna taylor, was just a you have two minutes? i don't believe so and i have talked with her mother, tamika palmer and her family with her mother, tamika palmer and herfamily and they with her mother, tamika palmer and her family and they deserve justice. she was a beautiful young woman. she had as her life goal to become a nurse and wa nted life goal to become a nurse and wanted to become an empty to first learn what is going on out on the street so she could then become a nurse and save lives. and her life was taken unjustifiably and tragically and violently. and it brings me to— and violently. and it brings me to — you know, the eight minutes and a6 seconds that america witnessed during which an american man was tortured and killed under the knee of an

armed, uniformed police officer. and people around our country, of every race, of every age, of every gender, perfect strangers to each other, marched shoulder to shoulder, arm in arm, fighting for us to finally achieve the idea of equaljustice under law. i was a part of those peaceful protests. and i believe strongly that first of all, we are never going to condone violence but we always must fight for the values that we hold dear, including the fight to achieve our ideals. and that is whyjoe biden and i have said on this subject. and look, i'm a former career prosecutor, no—one is talking about. dad tops are bad for good cops. we need reform of our policing in america and our

criminal justice system our policing in america and our criminaljustice system which is whyjoe and i will immediately ban protocols and protocols. george floyd would be alive if we did that. we will require a national registry for police officers who break the law. an issue of criminal justice who break the law. an issue of criminaljustice reform, get rid of private prisons and cash bailand we rid of private prisons and cash bail and we will decriminalise marijuana and we will expunge the records of those who have been convicted of marijuana crimes. this is a time for leadership on a tragic, tragic issue of unanswered like people in america. —— black. let me pose the same question to you. in the case of breonna taylor, was justice to you. in the case of breonna taylor, wasjustice dunn? to you. in the case of breonna taylor, was justice dunn? our heartbreaks for the loss of any innocent american life in the family of breonna taylor has our sympathies. but i trust our

justice system, a grand jury that reviews the evidence, and it really is remarkable that is a former prosecutor, you would assume that a grand jury looking at all the evidence got it wrong, but you are entitled to your opinion. with regard to george floyd, there is no excuse for what happened to george floyd. justice will be served. but there is also no excuse for the rioting and the looting that followed. it really is astonishing, just a few weeks ago i stood at what used to be her salon, that was burnt to the ground by rioters and looters, and florida is still trying to put her life back together. i can tell you, this presumption that you hear consistently from joe biden and

kamala harris that america is syste m ically kamala harris that america is systemically racist, that is joe biden said, he believes that law enforcement has an implicit bias against minorities is a great insult to the men and women who serve in law enforcement and i want everyone of them who put on the uniform, i want them to know that president trump and i stand with you. it is remarkable that when senator tim scott tried to pass the police reform deal brought together a group of republicans and democrats, kamala harris got out and walked out of the room. then you filibustered senator tim scott's bill on the senate floor that would have provided new accountability and new resources, and we don't have to choose between supporting law enforcement and supporting law enforcement and supporting our african—american and all of our minorities under president trump's leadership, we will always stand with law

enforcement and do... we want to improve the lives of african—americans, record unemployment, record investments in education,. unemployment, record investments in education, .” would like to respond.” investments in education, .” would like to respond. i will not sit here and be lectured by the vice president on what it means to enforce the laws of our country. i am the only one on this stage who has personally prosecuted everything from child sexual assault to homicide. i am the only one on this stage who has prosecuted the big banks for taking advantage of america's homeowners, i am the only one on this day to prosecuted for—profit colleges were taking advantage of our veterans. the reality of this is that we are talking about an election in 27 days where last week, the president of the united states took a debate stage in front of 70 million americans and refused to condemn white supremacists. it wasn't like he didn't have a chance. he didn't

do it, and then he doubled down, and then he said when pressed, stand back, stand by, and this is a part of a pattern of donald trump's. he called mexicans rapists and criminals, he instituted as his first act a muslim ban. 0n issue of charlottesville, a muslim ban. 0n issue of cha rlottesville, where a muslim ban. 0n issue of charlottesville, where people we re charlottesville, where people were peacefully protesting the need for racialjustice, where a young woman was killed and on the other side there were neo—nazis carrying tiki torches, shouting racial epithets, anti—semitic slurs and donald trump, when asked about it said they were fine people on both sides. this is

who we have as the president of the united states and america, you deserve better. joe biden will be a president who brings our country together and recognises the beauty in our diversity and the fact that we all have so much more in common than what separates us. let's give you a minute to respond. this is one of the things that makes people dislike the media so much in this country. you selectively edit, just like senator harris adjusted. president trump and i and our side of the argument, she admitted that after the president made comments about people on either side of the debate over monuments, he condemned the kkk, neo—nazis and white supremacists and has done so repeatedly. you are concerned that he doesn't condemn neo—nazis, president trump has jewish grandchildren, his daughter and son—in—law are jewish. this is a president who

respects and cherishes all—american people. i need to make this point about your prosecution. when you were da in san francisco, when you left office, african—americans were 19 times more likely to be prosecuted for minor drug offe nces prosecuted for minor drug offences than whites and hispanics. when you were attorney general of california, you increase the disproportionate incarceration of blacks in california, you did nothing on criminaljustice reform in california, you didn't lift a finger to pass the first step act on capitol hill. the reality is your re cord hill. the reality is your record speaks for itself. president trump and i have fought for criminaljustice president trump and i have fought for criminal justice and education choice of african—americans. education choice of african-americans. there is no more important issue than the final issue that we will talk about tonight, and that is the issue of the election. he

attacked my record, i would like an opportunity to respond. first of all, having served as the attorney general of the state of california, the work i did isa state of california, the work i did is a model of what our nation needs to do and we will be able to do under a joe biden presidency. our agenda includes what this administration has failed to do. it will be about not only instituting a ban on cha rcoals not only instituting a ban on charcoals and carotid holes. i would like to go through. these are points you made earlier in the hour and i want to talk about the election before we have to go. i want to talk about the connection about what joe andi about the connection about what joe and i will do and my records not was the first statewide officer that instituted a law that my agents where body cameras to initiate a requirement that there would be this training becausejoe biden and i recognise that

implicit bias does exist. contrary to what you may believe. we did the work of instituting reforms that were about investing in re—entry. this is the work that we have donein this is the work that we have done in the work we will do going forward and again i will not be lectured by the vice president on our record of what we have done in terms of law enforcement and keeping our communities safe and a commitment to reforming the committee, criminaljustice system. i would like to pose the first question on our final topic, the election itself. president trump has several times refused to commit himself toa times refused to commit himself to a peaceful transfer of power after the election. your ticket wins, and president trump refuses to accept a peaceful tra nsfer of refuses to accept a peaceful transfer of power, what steps will you and vice president biden then take? what would happen next? i will tell you, joe andi happen next? i will tell you, joe and i are particularly

proud of the coalition that we have built around our campaign. we have one of the broadest coalitions that you have ever seenin coalitions that you have ever seen ina coalitions that you have ever seen in a presidential race, and of course we have the support of democrats but also independents and republicans, in fact, seven members of president george w bush's cabinet are supporting our ticket. we have the support of colin powell, cindy mccain, john k sec, over 500 generals, retired generals and former national security experts and advisers are supporting our campaign. i believe they are doing that because they know thatjoe biden has a deep, deep seated commitment to fight our democracy, and to fight for the integrity of our democracy, and to bring integrity back to the white house, and so, we believe in the american people, we believe in our democracy, and here is what i would like to

say to everybody. vote, please vote, vote early, come up with a plan to vote, go to the website, you can go tojoe biden .com, we have within our power in these next 27 days to make the decision about what will be the course of our country for the next four yea rs, country for the next four years, and it is within our power and if we use our vote and if we use our voice, we will win, and we will not let anyone subvert our democracy with what donald trump has been doing as he did on the debate stage last week, when again in front of 70 million people, he openly attempted to suppress the vote. joe biden on the other hand on that same debate stage, because clearly donald trump doesn't think you can win a record, joe biden on that stage said just please vote, so i will repeat whatjoe said, please vote. president trump

has several times refused to commit himself to a peaceful tra nsfer of commit himself to a peaceful transfer of power after the election. if vice president biden is declared the winner and president trump refuses to accept a peaceful transfer of power, what will be your role and responsibility as vice president? what would you personally do? first and foremost i think we will win the selection. while joe biden and kamala harris rattle off, the establishment in washington, dc and the establishment of a joe biden has been a 47 years, donald trump has launched a movement of everyday americans from every walk of life, and i have every walk of life, and i have every confidence that the same americans that delivered that historic victory in 2016 will see this president's record, we rebuilt our economy, our military, we are fighting for fair trade, unleashing american energy. we appointed

conservatives to every level and we stood with the men and women in law enforcement, and i think that movement of americans is only growing stronger. when you talk about accepting the outcome of the election, they must tell you, your party has spent the last three and a half years trying to overturn the result of the la st to overturn the result of the last election. it's amazing. whenjoe last election. it's amazing. when joe biden was vice president of the united states, the fbi actually spied on president trump and my campaign. there were documents released this week the cia actually made a referral to the fbi documenting that these allegations were coming from hillary clinton campaign and we have all seen the avalanche, what you put the country through for the better part of three years until there was no obstruction, no collusion, and then senator harris, you and your colleagues in the congress

try to impeach the president of the united states over a phone call. now hillary clinton has said, under no circumstances should he could see the election. we will win the election, president trump and i are fighting every day to prevent joe biden from are fighting every day to preventjoe biden from changing the rules, and we are creating a massive opportunity for voter fraud. we have a free and fair election and i know that donald trump will be elected for four more years. i have written all the questions i have asked tonight but for the final question, i would like to read a question that someone else wrote to. the utah debate commission our students in the state to write essays about what they would like to ask you, andi what they would like to ask you, and i want to close deny‘s debate with a question posed by an eighth grader at springville junior high. here is what she wrote to. when i watch the

news, all i see is arguing between democrats and republicans are. when i watch the news, all i see is a citizen fighting against a citizen. when i watch the news, all i see are two candidates from opposing parties trying to tear each other down. if our leaders can't get along, how will the citizens get along, and then she added, your exa m ples and then she added, your examples could make all the difference to bring us together. to each of you in turn i would like you to take one minute and respond. it isa it is a wonderful question and let me just commend you for taking an interest in public life. i started following the news when i was very young and, in america, we believe in a free and open exchange of debate. and we celebrate that. it is out we have created

literally the freest and most prosperous nation in the history of the world. i will tell you that don't assume that what you are seeing on your local news networks is synonymous with the american people. i look at the relationship betweenjustice ruth bader ginsburg, and the late justice antonin scalia. they were on polar opposites. one very liberal, one very conservative but what has been learned is that the two of them and their families were the closest of friends. here in america, we can disagree and debate vigorously as senator harris and i have on this stage but when the debate is over we come together as americans and thatis come together as americans and that is what people do in small and exit is around the country.

—— and big cities. the american people, each and every day love a good debate, we love a good argument but we always come together and are always there for one another in times of need... thank you. and we have especially late that through the difficulties. senator harris, what would you say? first of all, i love hearing from our young leaders and when i hear her words, when i hear your words, i know our future is bright because it is that perspective on who we are and who we should be that is a sign of leadership and it is something we should all aspire to and that brings me tojoe. one of the reasons thatjoe decided to run for president is, after charlottesville, which we talked about earlier, so troubled and upset him, like it did all of us, that there was that kind of hate and

division. what propelled judd to run for president was to see that over the course of the last four years what you have described has been happening. joe has a long reputation of working in a bipartisan way and thatis working in a bipartisan way and that is what he will do as president. joe biden has a history of lifting people up and fighting for their dignity. you have to knowjaipur and fighting for their dignity. you have to know jaipur is misdirected he has no pain, he has known suffering. ——to know joe's story, he has known pain. ido joe's story, he has known pain. i do believe the future is bright and it is because of your leadership and because we fight for each person? voice, through their vote, and we get engaged in this election because you have the ability through your work and eventually your work to determine the future of our

country and what its leadership looks like. thank you senator harris, thank you vice president pence. we also want to thank the university of utah for its hospitality and most of all our thanks to all the americans who watched this debate tonight. our best wishes to for a quick recovery to president trump, the first lady and everyone who is battling covid—19. the second presidential debate is next week in miami. we hope you will join us then. good evening. applause . studio: susan page from usa today ending that vice presidential debate, the only vice presidential debate. just 27 days, four weeks, until the election on november three but as was pointed out, millions of

people, about a million people, have already voted. cathy, you have already voted. cathy, you have seen many of these and you have seen many of these and you have contacts second to none, what are you thinking. —— katty. | what are you thinking. —— katty. i am a lot less stressed than when we spoke after the presidential debate, that was exhausting and i had to grab a glass of wine after it. they mostly made to make that point tonight, some interruption but not on the scale we saw last week. they stuck to the topic, spoke about the economy, the green economy, abortion, about the coronavirus, of course, the supreme court, all of the big issues dominating this election campaign came up. they did not a lwa ys campaign came up. they did not always answer the question they we re always answer the question they were asked. but a lot of

evasion of questions, noticeably from the vice president early on, when he was asked what would happen when president trump become incapacitated, he and the president had a conversation. —— had he. kamala harris also ducked the same question and usedit ducked the same question and used it as an opportunity to introduce herself to the american people. they did not stick totally to the rules but it was night and day compared to last week. many people have said, because of the health and age of the actual presidential candidates, people really do have to decide if they can visualise either of these people as president. yes... i mean, iam people as president. yes... i mean, i am still not convinced the vice presidential debate will move very much in terms of wavering voters. i am not sure

this will make a huge difference to undecided voters but it was a chance for both of these people who are looking to their own political future, mike pence might want to take over from donald trump wahid to win. kamala harris could find herself, ifjoe biden was in a position also, succeeding him. both are people looking to their political future and it was that 90 minutes to dominate national attention. let's face it, neither the vice president nor the vice presidential candidate get that opportunity very often is was a chance to introduce themselves more substantially to the american public and to notch up a couple of points for their political

futures. we are going to be joined now by our other guest. —— guests. if we could talk to you first, the danger for the democrats, as it has always been is that even after this, there will be a bunch of people who have voted democrat before and may simply just stay who have voted democrat before and may simplyjust stay home as they did in 2016. was there enough it is to fire those people up? let me pick up where katty left officer people do not historically vote for people based on the vice president but given the age of donal trump and joe biden, people might believe that either one of these could be president. but i do think that the problem in this debate for mike pence is he did not help

trump. he is not adding voters but his performance and i think kamala harris did helpjoe biden for her performance in theissues biden for her performance in the issues that mattered, whether it is covered, racial injustice. —— covid—19. with almost 26 days left, mike pence did not add to the vote count tonight and i think he actually had donald trump with women by the way he debated today, with the way he debated today, with the constant interruptions, by snickering and speaking over her at one point. with the 25 point they have with women to the detriment of donald trump, that did not help the cause.” have to say, there was a point in the debate when i was looking at the screen and i was thinking, it was almost like... seeing mike pence next to

kamala harris for 90 minutes was a real reminder that there isa was a real reminder that there is a woman on one of the tickets and that, in and of itself, it could sway some female suburban voters. you could have been watching on mute for 90 minutes and what you get is that one ticket has a woman and the other does not and if your target audience is and if your target audience is a suburban women voters, it may have motivated some of them. you cannot get over the fact that the is not a woman on the pence — trump ticket but do you think the interrupting of susan page time and time again, does that not have a potential to turn off some suburban women vote rs turn off some suburban women voters you need to win over?” would say kamala harris‘s

policies would scare women voters. she is a good moderator, susan page. i think the vice president possibly interrupted too much but, at the end of the day, the policies coming out of this debate will be what decide the ballot and the policies are scary to suburban women. banning fracking, which would destroy the economy of pennsylvania, that they want a green new deal and that to be the baseline of the policies which would destroy the american economy so these little knicks where he interrupted too much, the thing that would turn up women is ending fracking and packing the supreme court which kamala

harris did not say they would not do. the point about the policies, do you think there we re policies, do you think there were substantial policies in this debate discussed. i am not sure about the point that they would be turned off by some of the policies. roe v. wade and polls on it suggest that women wa nt polls on it suggest that women want roe v. wade remained the law of the land. i am not sure there was enough policy to make this way. the majority of women do not support late term abortion. she is outside the mainstream by supporting late term abortion or unrestricted abortion. even for democratic equipment that is outside... you are taking after your old

boss. the majority of women and catholics support keeping roe v. catholics support keeping roe v. wade. the point ryanjust made is not true. it is factually wrong. on the issues that matter, that are driving this election, covid—i9, healthcare, the economy, those three issues kamala harris addressed very strongly, directly to the camera, much like joe biden did, and those are things that matter. it is a referendum on donald trump. and those issues. that is the difference in this race right now, by double digits. the big picture is that you go into this race withjoe biden plus eight, plus nine, if you take an average of recent polls in national polling, all they needed really was a tie in with

the vice presidential debate if the vice presidential debate if the vice presidential debate matters at all and if all they needed was a tie, they probably got that stop whereas something has to happen on the trump — hence team to materially change the numbers and i am not sure it happened tonight.” the numbers and i am not sure it happened tonight. i agree with you, something needs to change font president trump in this campaign. i do not think today changed today you saw samples of what could. when you are having a debate on policies, policies that are scaring off suburban women, moderate voters, so if you look at this debate and i hope president trump was looking at it, i have seen feedback already, the example is, if you're going to debate the policies, we're going win those discussions. this economy has created 10.a million jobs discussions. this economy has created 10.a millionjobs in the last four months. there is

a story to tell and a long way to go but barack obama, he only created 8.a millionjobs in eight years. we are in an economic recovery and who do they trust in an economic recovery? president trump and vice president pence orjoe biden after the economic calamity. i think the numbers are calamity. i think the numbers a re clear calamity. i think the numbers are clear and hopefully the voters pay attention to that. let's go back to the university of utah. sophie long is there. under this kind of setup, there is the usual spin room where various people tell you what to think about the debate you just watch. are you getting any feedback at all? you are right, mike, normally

the candidates would enter the spin room and there would be journalists asking them what they thought. they would have caused tell us their candidate has one. this has taken place in the middle of a global pandemic, there are huge safety precautions in place. it means we, the media, are outside. you can see the debating hall behind me, a0 metres away, and there are not even commentators coming here. we have had very little access. we watched the debate, a much more normal debate, a much more normal debate, which is what people we re debate, which is what people were hoping for, it was more civil, both candidates addressed each other politely. the american people wanted to hear more about policy. i think they got to do that. but there we re they got to do that. but there were of course some very obvious questions dodged. the role of the vice president, mike pence, went first and simply did not answer it. did not even pretend to answer that question. kamala harris, having had a few moments more to think about it, she did the same. there are several occasions where questions were dodged. i

think we had lots more about a wide variety of policy. the moderator still had a tricky job. there were interruptions, not as many as last week, but there were times when mike pence went on longer than he should have done. he said in the beginning, susan page, the moderator, that they would have time to speak uninterrupted, she meant that. and when questions went completely unanswered, there wasn't any follow—up, even from her. i think it was a much more normal debate, and perhaps more of what people have been hoping for. the fact checkers will go all the way through and check these statements made by each of the individual candidates, to check exactly what was true. i think to check exactly what was true. ithink in to check exactly what was true. i think in terms of who one, it felt like a tie. of course, we don't have the spin doctors here to tell us who did win, yet. and sophie, we will probably have to see as well, some people watch these debates

in their entirety, some people watch them streamed or the clips later the next day. you will get some of the quotes, both of the candidates had some pretty good lines that they had clearly rehearsed before hand. pretty good lines that they had clearly rehearsed beforehand. i wonder whether, you know, kamala harris repeatedly telling mike pence not to interrupt her, i'm speaking, i'm speaking, mrvice president. at one point even putting up her hands saying, thatis putting up her hands saying, that is enough, just listen to me. it is mostlyjust as and the looks that i think will get replayed tomorrow as much as the actual policy discussions. and people will draw conclusions from what they see from those as well, won't they? yeah, exactly. ithink from those as well, won't they? yeah, exactly. i think that is something we're going to hear more of. her saying, something we're going to hear more of. hersaying, i something we're going to hear more of. her saying, i am talking, mr vice president as she put her hand up. she was smiling. in this situation, both candidates did what they set out to do and what we were expecting them to do. kamala harris went straight in on the pandemic, that was offered to her, that was the first

question. she said the trump administration had basically forfeited the right to real action by the handling of the pandemic. we always knew she would go in without. and we had what we expected from mike pence as well, painting her as one of the most liberal members of the senate and saying biden in the white house would raise taxes on day one. so i think you were right. but it is as much about the looks and exchanges and it was a much more civil debate, which eve ryo ne more civil debate, which everyone was hoping for. so, yeah, we will wait to see what the us media and what the american people think of it. sophie, i wondered american people think of it. sophie, iwondered how american people think of it. sophie, i wondered how you played. the whole area around coronavirus. of course, mike pence heading mr trumpism a coronavirus task force in the wa ke coronavirus task force in the wake of that video from mr trump. very bullish, talking about a cure, talking about him wanting to give what he says cu rate wanting to give what he says curate him to all of the american people. —— curate him.

kamala harris saying we have witnessed the greatest failure of any administration and history of our country. trump and p knew from the end of january how bad coronavirus could be and how it can spread. and they didn't tell you. you may not have seen this, but at the end of that debate, karen pence, mike pence's wife, appearing when older spouses and various family members on the stage, appearing without a mask —— all of the spouses, really sending a signal and breaking the rules of that debate hall. how do you think about play? you are quite right, actually. we were told very clearly that there would only be three people allowed in that debate hall without a mask on, throughout the entirety of that 90 minute debate, and it would be the two. kamala harris, mike pence and moderator is on page. you are right to point out that was not what should have happened. we knew that the pandemic would dominate that debate, and it was indeed the first question.

mike pence was on a sticky wicket. it is difficult to put a positive spin on a pandemic that has claimed more than 211,000 american lives and has infected a number of people in the white house, including the president, one of the most protected people on the planet. nonetheless, he did quite a good job of that, as he said, you know, they did everything right. they were told that they could still lose around 200,000 american lives, and had they not done what they had done, it would have been much, much worse. he also pointed out kamala harris had the first sta b kamala harris had the first stab at that question, obviously, and she was asked what would they do differently? she didn't really say much more, they said they would you contact tracing, a lot of what should have been done, or suddenly, they said what they would do, so far. that gave mike pence his first punch, saying listening to that remind me of plagiarism, a deed tojoe biden's residential attempts in the past. it was always going

to dominate the debate, it did, and you are right to point out there was a break—in which should have happened we saw karen pence without a mask at the end. thank you very much, sophie long, we still have mary anne marsh, brian lanza with us. the backdrop to this is covid, which will dominate the campaignforat covid, which will dominate the campaign for at least the next week or two while the president is recovering from the coronavirus at the white house. do you think there is anything that might happen? i am so conscious of the fact that it this stage in 2016, hillary clinton was also ahead in the polls, also had a similar amount in the polls in some of those key battleground states, wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania, yet she went on to lose the election. you see anything that could happen now and what we have got, 3.5 weeks to go, between now and election

date that could change the race dramatically? donald trump is in the white house. anything could happen! but the reality is, what we see here is one opportunity, which is the debates tonight, to change the dynamic. i agree with bryan on that. now day 26, we have two debates that. now day 26, we have two d e bates left that. now day 26, we have two debates left and it needs to be something pretty dramatic at this point to under mentally change this race which is solidly about covid—19. a referendum on donald trump, it hasn't changed, it is still a referendum. covid—19, and donald trump has it. and many people at the white house do, too. it is hard to imagine anything that could shake this race up so much now. when you start to look at the backjoe biden is clearly 50% in most of these polls. this is a big difference. hillary clinton never cleared 50, joe biden never cleared 50, joe biden never cleared 50, joe biden

never cleared —— donald trump never cleared —— donald trump never cleared —— donald trump never cleared 50%, i'm pretty scarred now but you see some fundamental indicators where if every boat is counted and no shenanigans, this is starting to look structurally like an advantage forjoe biden —— every vote. there are 20 states to go and donald trump could have covid—19 for another week orso, have covid—19 for another week or so, you subtract those a0 days, that leaves 12 days at the end to upend a race that has stubbornly fixed, it seems, for a long time now. -- been fixed. bryan, as a republican strategist. how do you deal with this court? —— with this? there was a woman on stage, the first black woman of colour on the ticket in history. that is a powerful image to contend with? it is a historic event. it's a good thing, it shows the evolution of our country in a good way. you know, it shows

this country has made a tremendous amount of progress. ido tremendous amount of progress. i do think it is a good thing. like i have said, the reason why this debate has got to be the framework for what president trump does going forward with the next debates is, you want to have the policy discussion. when you get to be policy discussions, that is what is turning off independent vote rs what is turning off independent voters that the abiding campaign once was that that is what is turning off suburban vote rs what is turning off suburban voters that the biting campaign needs. i am voters that the biting campaign needs. lam proud voters that the biting campaign needs. i am proud of the fact that i am american and kamala harris was there, like i am equally proud when i saw barack obama be elected president. at the end of the day, it is the policies that affect this, day in and day out and that historic benchmark is not going to put food on the table or kids back into school. bryan and maryanne, thank you. to recap, as you pointed out, the democrats just had to hold the

line, really. mike pence needed to move the needle and dramatically. this did not feel like you did that. no. to be honest, both of them are more fluent, better debaters than their bosses. kamala harris is more articulate, her sentences are put together more clearly, she doesn't waffle, she doesn't get lost in tangents, a bit like this answer is starting to, in the wayjoe biden does stop mike pence, similarly —— joe biden does. kamala harris similarly gives more coherent a nswe rs similarly gives more coherent answers than donald trump ever does. we had clarity from those two, but it felt more or less like a tie. he didn't feel like a blow—out for either one. and if it is a tie, that doesn't change the nature of the election race at the moment. and as we stand at the moment, if the polls are to be believed, then joe biden if the polls are to be believed, thenjoe biden seems co mforta bly believed, thenjoe biden seems comfortably ahead. it is 27 days before the election but millions of people have already

voted, fewer than four weeks, and the second residential debate is scheduled for october 15. we do not know if the third will happen. thank you for watching. —— presidential debate. hello. the weather picture first thing not looking so great across england and wales, a lot of cloud out there and some outbreaks of rain. but hang in there because the afternoon offers a much brighter picture. here we are with this area of low pressure currently feeding in all of the cloud and the rain, but notice to the north of it how much clearer the skies are. we'lljust pick out this little white streak of cloud here, though, because that is a line of showers that will push into scotland and northern ireland. and they're set to be pretty punchy. but once this band of rain starts its journey southwards through the morning, skies will begin to brighten. so, by 9am, hopefully something a little bit brighter already into wales. scotland and northern ireland should see some decent sunshine from the get—go, but a lot of those showers already in the west turning quite heavy, perhaps clumping together into longer spells of rain. just a few, i think,

further south and for northern ireland. the front finally off into the continent after lunch, and that's when we'll see things brighten for southernmost counties. for much of england and wales, though, not a bad second half of the day at all. perhaps just some cloud hanging back across east anglia, but up to 17 degrees in the brightness, 11—12 further north for scotland and northern ireland. through thursday evening and overnight into friday, plenty of showers crossing scotland, a more organised band of rain trails back into northern ireland and sinks into northern england. either side of that cloud and rain, quite a chilly start to friday, patchy frost perhaps in some rural spots across england and wales and northern scotland. and then a lot of cloud around for northern england, northern ireland and wales first thing on friday, then this whole system sinks its way southeastwards through the day. so, we'll see cloud and rain moving in for southern and eastern england, i think, later on on friday. still plenty of showers further north, but hopefully interspersed with some sunny spells. and then from friday into the weekend, here's our next significant transition. we move into a northerly airstream. we move into polar air, that's the blue shading on the map behind me, and we do so because we finally pull away the low pressure that we've been talking about all week towards the continent and allow a high to establish from the atlantic. the squeeze between

the two, though, gives us that northerly airstream, so quite a chilly northerly breeze but a lot of dry weather and sunshine for the majority of the uk for the weekend ahead. but some on northern coasts could be prone to some thicker cloud, perhaps the odd shower and we may see some drifting in off the north sea into eastern england as well.

a very warm welcome to bbc news. my name's mike embley, with special coverage of the us vice—presidential debate that ended about 30 minutes ago. mike pence and his democratic challenger, kamala harris, clash over the coronavirus crisis in the only us vice presidential debate. the american people have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any presidential administration in the history of our country. ifa if a vaccine emerges during the presidential administration, i think it is unconscionable. stop playing politics with peoples lives.