president trump says he will attend thursday's televised pre—election debate with his democratic rival, joe biden, despite rule changes initially opposed by his campaign. the second and final face—off between the two candidates will involve each having his microphone muted while his rival delivers the introductory two—minute remarks. and the president has reportedly described the us government's top coronavirus adviser as "a disaster". dr anthony fauci had previously said he wasn't surprised mr trump caught covid—19. the president has repeatedly clashed with dr fauci, a highly respected infectious diseases expert. belgium's health minister fears the country could soon be overwhelmed by new coronavirus infections. new measures are now in place as it's feared soaring case—numbers are close to quote a tsunami,

now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. inafew i'm stephen sackur. in a few days time americans will give their verdict on president donald trump. do they want four more years of trump in the white house, oi’ of trump in the white house, or will they opt for the other septuagenarian, joe biden, wholly different in style a nd wholly different in style and worldview? former republican congressman and loyal trump campaigner, jack kingston is my guest today. the polls consistently say trump is in big trouble. is there good reason to think they are wrong?

jack kingston in washington, dc, welcome to hardtalk. you area dc, welcome to hardtalk. you are a loyal trump campaign. it strikes me when you are in a position like yours, there is a fine line to tread between optimism and realism. in the spirit of realism can you allege to me that the trump campaign is in real trouble?m isa campaign is in real trouble?m is a tough competitive race but we know that last time, 2016, we know that last time, 2016, we went into election day having hardly won a single bowl. i think something is going on in polls. i read lots of them for my races and many other candidates and they have been wronged many, many times. iam not been wronged many, many times. i am not saying they are not useful but they are not 100%

reliable. if i look back at 2016 i think here we are again. if you look at where joe 2016 i think here we are again. if you look at wherejoe biden is spending his time, he is in the same state as we are, the so—called swing states. if he had the double digit leads which some outlets have reporting he has, he would be going to other states where he has single digit leads where he would try to grow his leads, great seats in the senate and house. what i do believe is that our internal polls and their internal polls are telling them and ask something a lot different than what we're reading into the newspapers.” absolutely take the point we cannot rely on polls, experience tells us that but one thing we see consistently in surveys, including those going far beyond the usual

polls is that americans are deeply dissatisfied with the handling of the coronavirus. you at least accept that?” think they are but they are also looking onjust frustration in the general that they have a new disease and virus dealing with in real time and they have been mistakes. when you look at the world health organization which originally said it was not transmitted human to human and the who did not declare a pandemic until late march, certainly a misstep. joe biden said our travel ban from china was xenophobic when president trump mounted it injanuary. hang on, hang on, mr kingston, joe biden has not been in power for the last eight months and in the past eight months they we re in the past eight months they were stunning mistakes that donald trump is made, if one thinks about his decision to downplay the virus from

the very beginning to the american public, he never levelled with the american people, he told the american people, he told the facemasks were not necessary , the facemasks were not necessary, he refused a mask and that clearly was a huge mistake. right now, eight months after this disease hip the us we have 43 of your states where the levels of infection are still rising. that is shameful. it is true that the death level has stabilised and that is significant. we have far more capacity than we did in february and we have that because of donald trump. we went out and made sure we had plenty of ppe is, plenty of hospital beds and donald trump sent ships, mercy ship, and the ship and comfort to los angeles to access bed capacity, a private organisation set up beds in central park. those we re beds in central park. those were not used but it was the democrat mayor of new

york, andrew cuomo, who sent healthy people in nursing homes and infecting people. something like 10— infecting people. something like 10- 50,000 infecting people. something like 10— 50,000 people have died ina like 10— 50,000 people have died in a new york state nursing has because of that stupid, incredibly dump move. also look at the state... mr kingston, obviously i am on the shed to challenge you about donald trump, who is your man. we challenge democrats onto their records but i need you to address donald trump's record. that is the point of this interview and i want to ask you whether you think it is right that in a democracy, the democratically elected president deliberately and consciously chooses to mislead the american people from the very get go? i did not think he was misleading people at all. if you look at the pandemic level of people rushing out and buying toilet paper and masks.

the reason why we were trying to prioritise masks was that people in healthcare and hospitals and healthcare facilities had masks because the average person originally did not need a mask and that was part of the cdc and who — there was a controversy about masks. if donald trump is going to get the full blame, which is not accurate, but if he does have a blame for everything that goes wrong with coronavirus, we did to look at the american system which actually says the governors of the 50 states have huge authorities... excuse me, mr kingston, the point is, donald trump repeatedly undermined the authority of the state and that leaderships, in particular, for example, back in april, he was screaming in states like minnesota to lift the very serious conditions. you remember those trees, liberate,

minnesota. he was undermining the state elected officials.” actually believe that the excessive crackdowns have led to problems in the rain rides. suicide and drug abuse and spouse abuse and depression because people have not been allowed to leave their houses and in many cases this people are young people, that are not the high vulnerable populations statistically if you want to follow the signs, we have to that the people who are 70 yea rs old that the people who are 70 years old or older, particularly with pre—existing illnesses are the most vulnerable and we we should be focusing on that not young people who are very healthy. the thing that is so important is under cdc guidelines, the render guideline that local municipal health authorities still have the ultimate say so about schools and playgrounds and cafeterias and food distribution and say we cannot, imean, it distribution and say we cannot, i mean, it is nice during the election year to blame

all the problems of one person but it isa problems of one person but it is a decentralised system and local authorities had a major role in the coronavirus response. one issue in the campaign is also the american healthcare system. it seems a very challenging environment for you republicans, donald trump in particular, go to the american people and say you continue to want to completely undermine and repeal obama's affordable care act and yet you still do not have any idea what you put in its place. is that a message that will resonate with the american people?” message that will resonate with the american people? i think it is because people know the healthcare sector of the economy is huge and major and does not lend itself to centralised planning. a look at your healthcare system, i got sick twice in the uk and the last time i actually went to a private doctor because the hotel i was staying in that if you want to see a doctor today, you want to see a doctor today, you have to go to a private

doctor and a paid for it with my own mastercard and was fortu nate to my own mastercard and was fortunate to be able to afford to do that. this is a system totally outside of the government and it worked well for me, i have seen it. and thatis for me, i have seen it. and that is what happens in countries with socialised medicine. between february and may, the coronavirus ripping the united states, 5 million people lost their health insurance because they lost theirjobs and according to the kaiser foundation, a nonparty highly respected medical research organisation, 80% of those people still got healthcare because of the reforms in the affordable care act, that is the link between coronavirus and healthcare and donald trump wants to destroy that. the way they got their healthcare was through medicaid and that has i was been there who fall through the cracks financially and what we do know as americans is that we want

to keep out private healthcare. if we had that option, joe biden was to take take away the private healthcare of americans. we do not want that. whatjoe biden promises is that, with his extension of affordable care, he will ensure 9796 affordable care, he will ensure 97% of americans are covered, one way or another. he will ta ke one way or another. he will take away my healthcare. someone who was a depend of the government, they probably will have that option and go through a government exchange if that is what they want but personally speaking i do not think the government is very effective leave. one aspect of this domestic policy agenda that donald trump is fighting on the other is the economy, he says he has delivered on the economy and truly made the american economy great again and he points to the stock market which had a big dip but is still high. no

doubt about that. but is that the measure that. but is that the measure that most american people care about when the jobless rate has soared over the last seven months? are they looking at the stock market and celebrating? they looking at theirjobs more than the stock market but the unemployment rate is the same as it was when joe unemployment rate is the same as it was whenjoe biden left office. joe biden talks about the recovery he brought, he hadn't unemployment at the same level we have. unemployment is way too high. this is what it was during the malaise of the joe biden barack obama years. we have to go back to the era when we had jobs for americans, hispanics, young people people are making money and wages were going up. the recovery we are having right now is what going to save america. 2021 is going to save america. 2021 is going to bea to save america. 2021 is going to be a very strong year if donald trump is in the white

house. it depends whether the american public believe that. in 2016 he was promising michigan and other states, wisconsin, he promised them that they would once again be the manufacturing hub of the world. look at the recent reality. general motors, for example, reality. general motors, for exa m ple, recently reality. general motors, for example, recently announced another shutdown. in ohio, five other plants that plan to shut down. this restoration, this magical reinvention of american manufacturing just does not happen. stephen, that sounds a little bit but barack obama and hillary clinton and joe biden set in 2016, that it is never going to come back and we never are going to have manufacturing. under donald trump, with tougher trade agreements and watching out for foreign companies dumping their products in america, manufacturing did come back... all the survey evidence across

the midwest suggests it does not come back. if you look at the promise to completely rebalance the trading relationship with china because he said, " it is reaping close quote. $31 billion guess what it is today? around $31 billion. he has not delivered on his economic promises. what do you thinkjoe biden is going to do when his son is on the payroll of chinese companies?” am talking about donald trump, the incumbent. this is a record we are discussing today. but we're also talking about the election and the choice americans have. donald trump and mike pence at least have engaged in the economic war with china. donald trump has been out there fighting for tougher agreements, fighting against intellectual property

theft, fighting against china using the sea lanes that belong to japan using the sea lanes that belong tojapan in using the sea lanes that belong to japan in international waters, fighting against many other technologies that china has been stealing from around the world. i think that is a good thing. i would like to see a more united coalition with european countries being part of this because i think together we can stand up to china but right now it is just very, very hard to go it alone but donald trump is that you do that because the international community has not given him the support they should have and they know they want to. i say this as a member of congress for 22 years, democrats and republicans have been talking this game forever. donald trump finally did something about it. well, you can tell me donald trump has discovered —— delivered. how do you feel when donald trump just brazenly lies about his record. and i'm thinking, for example, how on the campaign trail for the last week or so he has been telling

mass audiences that mexico has paid for the wall. that's not true. i think there's a lot of hyperbole in that, stephen. and i'm not going to argue with that. i can say this, whenjoe biden says i'm for fracking, and against tracking, and for fracking, you can keep your own healthcare, no, we're going to ta ke healthcare, no, we're going to take away socialised medicine, and no, i'm not going to tell you if i'm going to pack the supreme court or not, those are lies. when he says he has nothing to do with his son's dealings, but now we know there was a meeting in the white house about it, 100% lies stop so, unfortunately, if you are looking for purity, you might find it in the pulpit. you are not going to find it in politics. i'm not saying that as an excuse for it, but i'm saying it is a rough—and—tumble game where there is a lot of hyperbole. it sounds like you are to excuse donald trump's untruths and falsifications than many people who have worked much more closely with

him than you have a preventative. i'm thinking, for example of former defence secretary james mattis who has accused trump of making a mockery of the us constitution. i'm thinking ofjohn kelly, his former white house chief of staff, a guy he drafted in and trusted him so much, and kelly says the depths of his dishonesty, from's dishonesty, are astounding to me. these are quys are astounding to me. these are guys who know trump very well, very personally, have seen him in action, and they don't trust him one inch to represent america's best interests. but, stephen, everything you'vejust said, quoting them, quoting them i'm sure accurately, they arejust opinions will them i'm sure accurately, they are just opinions will that guy isa are just opinions will that guy is a rascal, that's an opinion. ifi is a rascal, that's an opinion. if i sayjoe biden camelle for fracking and then as against it, and is worried, they can be proved as ever, those are state m e nts proved as ever, those are statements he has made. crosstalk. i think you a misunderstanding what a lie is. joe biden may block managers, that is not the issue today, but flip—flopping

isn't lying. donald trump has proven to be a teller of untruths. and i can catalogue literally hundreds if not thousands of them. but it doesn't really matter what i think, it is what his own closest associates think. that's what disturbs the american people. but not of those statements you have said from matters were said were a lie. those were still based on opinions. those are opinions that they had. we do know for a fa ct that they had. we do know for a factjoe biden said he had nothing to do with hunter biden's dealings with burisma and the corrupt company he was on the board of. he said he didn't meet with them. we know now he did meet with them. in fa ct, now he did meet with them. in fact, there is a picture of them playing golf together. so thatis them playing golf together. so that is a lie. he said he didn't full up all the evidence is something else. with respect, the republican senate report found that there was ultimately no evidence that us foreign policy had been influenced by. so i'm not quite sure about you get without argument. let us stick with you

and your party... crosstalk. i'm not sure that that is what that statement said. the republican senate did not come up republican senate did not come up with that conclusion. and they are going to take another look at it now there is e—mails and new evidence about it... crosstalk. they may take another look at it but i'm telling you what their first report it but i'm telling you what theirfirst report said. it but i'm telling you what their first report said. it's not get stuck on that. the point about you, mr kingston, is you are here to tell me why american should vote for donald trump. there are many people in your own party right now, including serving democratically elect did senators, lake ben sasse, who basically say donald trump —— donald trump is unfit. "is graphic words. he floats with white supremacists. people like ben sasse say that if your party sticks with trump over the next, let's face it, you are bound to him now, you're tied him, it is going to be in ben sasse's words, disastrous for you at the polls. it could see you taking a terrible

beating and us congress, not just in the white house.” beating and us congress, not just in the white house. i am ploughed our party is big enough to have critics in the family. ben sasse's has always been one that has consistently been one that has consistently been won. he likes that independent streak. we will see the same thing about democrats as well stop one of the things as well stop one of the things a load of over mate 22 years of service, as if you want to be a hero criticise the institution and criticise your colleague and criticise your colleague and then you are always the darling of the press for the day or the darling of the other party. that's unfortunate. but here is what we do know under donald trump, when he assumed office, isis had an area the size of the state of rhode island. isis has now been reduced. we are at peace. we are trying to enter the endless wa rs are trying to enter the endless wars which america still has troops on the ground in iraq and afghanistan. that is a good thing. i would love to have more international support when it comes to dealing with syria. but he has not been a warmonger. what we have seen... biden was bombing in libya.

anai still don't know why we we re anai still don't know why we were in libya. why... gaddafi was a bad guy, does that mean we all go. that is howjoe biden and barack obama said he will. it is interesting when you turn the arguments and arsenals of early, i am mindful that 500 recently retired senior nationals early officials, including the recently retired deputy former vice—chair of the chiefs of staff, have all come out saying they would have to backjoe biden, because they do not believe donald trump represents, properly, us national security interests. that is a big robran to him on the national security front. but, stephen, that's 500 people. i'm very proud thatjoe biden has 500 veterans. you know how many veterans are in america? 17.4 million. we will ta ke america? 17.4 million. we will take the 17 million. we will give him the 500 who have endorsed him. those guys are... let me say this, you know

how governments work, those guys who want to be in with in crowd, they are not republican, they are not democratic, they are not philosophical, they just want a job. they just want to feel that they are in with the elite. that is why donald trump is so good. his allegiance to the common man. he isa allegiance to the common man. he is a populus. he is a guy that breaks up that kind of cabal. i've seen it over and overin cabal. i've seen it over and over in washington. it is a very incestuous town. doesn't matter if you are republican or democrat. you call him a populus. the question in the next few weeks is is he a democrat? there are many people, even on your side of the fence, i spoke to the lenient republican pollster franklins, "you another guy who has been on the show, the former gop chairman michael steele, they are all desperately worried that donald trump will not accept defeat come novemberfor after the election. michael still says "this sitting president of the united states as indicated is lack of interest and desire in transferring power, should he lose the election. michael steele is very troubled about

that. are you? if there is a fair election then he will absolutely accept defeat. and i would encourage him to do that. if the election is stolen then i think we should go to court, that's what hillary clinton would do, that is what al gore did do. donald trump has decided that male invalids represent a major threat to the democracy when in the words of the commission, there is simply no basis for this conspiracy theory that voting by male causes fraud. so donald trump may well be rejecting the vote ona may well be rejecting the vote on a basis which independent experts do not accept. will you back the independent experts or will you back your man, donald trump was a i am going to take you, from a microlevel, i ordered my independent valid august 26, last week they checked on it, still hadn't received. found out they send it to the wrong address. what a bipartisan commission has looked at is that mail—in

voting does have a lot of inefficiencies. the ballots get lost. there are inefficiencies. there are problems collecting it. so there are some problems with it. anyone who says there are not has a vested interest in having them. the state of michigan right now has 3.4 million people who have voted by absentee ballot. it is going to ta ke by absentee ballot. it is going to take them days and weeks to count those. and there is no telling what the governor of michigan, being a staunch ante trump person that it will be done fairly. they went down to florida for the recount between bush and gore and i can tell you, stephen, it is an incredibly frustrating process and you just hope that good people step forward from both parties and count these ballots and sorted out right. crosstalk. we have seen a lot of institutions and a lot of corruption. would you just accept there are some potentially dangerous and maybe even dark days ahead for american democracy? there are ifjoe biden is elected, if donald trump is re—elected i think our economy will come back, america will remain strong. we are going to keep having will be's and i think

people will be working again, we will be coronavirus, we can do it on an international basis. donald trump has been very transparent and i think he isa very transparent and i think he is a great american and world leader. well, we have to end there. jack easton, thank you very much indeed forjoining me on hardtalk. —— jack very much indeed forjoining me on hardtalk. ——jack kingston. thanks, stephen. very, very mild out there at the moment. and tuesday promises to be a very mild day too. we have southerly winds across the uk, and the air is coming all the way from spain and portugal, in fact. there's a bit of rain in the forecast too. quite a lot of it. you can see this big low pressure there sweeping in from the south of the cloud,

that is with the air is coming from, all the way from iberia. so, with the winds it will be a very mild morning, with a lot of cloud and outbreaks of rain too, it'll have been a very wet night in northern ireland, and parts of scotland but these are the morning temperatures. 13 in plymouth, double figures also across some northern part of the uk. the rain will be intermittent, it will come and go across most parts of england or wales. but northern ireland in the afternoon could see persistent heavy showers and probably clip parts of southwest scotland as well. but aberdeen will be a little bit brighter. but look at the temperatures. we are pushing 20 in the southeast. it's more likely to be 17 to 19 degrees there. now, on wednesday, another low pressure comes in. remnants of storm barbara which will have swept across parts of portugal, spain, the bay of biscay. we are not too sure how much wind this weather system will bring. the thinking is it will certainly bring a fair bit of rain and you see the dark blues there, but the wind could be for a time quite strong in the extreme southeast of the country. further west and north, a different weather pattern and more sunshine for the lake district, but not completely dry.

there are some showers around across the northwest of the uk. it is still going to be mild and the weather system are still coming in from the south. thursday, we have a bit of a break in the weather, and between weather systems. you can see fewer isobars on the weather map. the white pressure lines. that means that winds will be a lot lighter with some sunshine around and thursday is promising to be a pretty decent day across most of the uk. you can see the weather system out there in the north sea and one in the atlantic with a bit of wet weather to the south of us and we're in between so there will be more sunshine around. temperatures will be around 12 to 16 degrees. a little bit fresher. you can see the temperatures peaking on tuesday. from then onwards, it looks like it will cool off a tad bit. overall, staying on the mild side. that is it for me. goodbye.

this is bbc news — with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. i'm sally bundock. covid infections continue to rise across europe — belgium's health minister warns the country could soon be overwhelmed. president trump agrees to another tv election debate with rivaljoe biden — but there are changes to the rules. who's north korea backing in the race for the white house? we'll assess what pyongyang wants from this election. one small step for man — one giant phone call for mankind.