welcome to this bbc news special. there are 12 days to the presidential election, and tonight, the final televised debate. donald trump and joe biden will go head—to—head in half an hour's time in nashville, tennessee. the first debate was a shouting match, the second never happened. tonight, it is the rematch. this is the scene live at belmont university in nashville, where the two men will debate six topics over 90 minutes. will their performance swing any votes? we'll have analysis of the debate from democrat strategist mary anne marsh and former trump communications specialist bryan la nza.

hello and welcome to our bbc special coverage. so here we are, the last us presidential debate before americans go to the polls a week on tuesday. on a stage in nashville, tennessee this evening, president trump and former vice presidentjoe biden will have 90 minutes to make the case to any undecided voters who are left that they are the best person to lead the nation for the next four years. there will be policy, there will be political posturing, but what about simple politeness? unlikely. you'll remember the last time these two men shared a stage, it was a loud, raucus, messy affair — so many interruptions by the end, neither of them came out looking particularly good. this time, the rules have changed a bit. the debate commission has introduced a mute button, giving each candidate two minutes, uninterrupted, to make their case, at the start of the six sections of the debate. but after that, it's open

debate and the gloves are off. so let's get right to it. laura trevelyan is at belmont university in nashville for us. laura, i think we saw the motorcade of president trump arriving. i don't know if you heard it at the stage. they should be taking the stage in half an hour. any last—minute changes or thoughts that you are hearing of? yes that was a motorcade arriving just there. what we do know is that the president is has a surprise guest, not very surprised tonight. 20 babinski, who is a business associate of hunter biden. —— a former business partner. they want to make the argument directly tonight that the biden family sells access to power was that the biden campaign are saying if that is the closing argument of the president he has got problems and he is desperately trying to deflect attention. ——

tony bobunliski. coronavirus hanging over everything. that debating cleveland, i was there in the president most likely was infected when he was on stage because two days later he tested positive and joe biden trying to make tonight a referendum on his handling of the virus in the president trying to focus on the economy but one place where he pulls better thanjoe but one place where he pulls better than joe biden and but one place where he pulls better thanjoe biden and will hear a lot tonight about joe biden wanting to tax the rich people more. call it professional solidarity but on a night like this, i'm always likely to put myself in the shoes of the moderator. tonight it is kristin welker. she is the white house correspondent from nbc. she has a ready come under attack from the president. how easy is going to be for her? does she have control of that mute button? no, she doesn't have control of it. it is the commission on presidential debates. but yes, what a job, at the president thatis what a job, at the president that is notoriously hostile to female journalists. we have

just seen him being extremely rude about the veteran cbs reporter come already been tweeting about the moderator tonight but interestingly kellyanne conway gamez campaign strategist come has got her way to praise the moderator, rememberthe to praise the moderator, remember the president is thought to be appealing to suburban women, one of the groups that he has been losing support of monks. to go after a smart, accomplished woman on stage come at the same time confirming to the supreme court a smart and accomplished mother of seven, perhaps you would be shooting one message in the foot there if you did that. looking at the stage on screen with you, i'm noticing those plexiglas greens are not up on the stage which they wear for the stage which they wear for the vice presidentjoe the bay. a reminder that during the debate between the vice presidential candidates that covid—i9 israel but they have been taken down for this one. actually they were ended the debate hall this morning.

actually they were ended the debate hallthis morning. —— they were in. they have come down now. we are told both candidates have tested negative and this is apparently on the advice of doctor fauci but you have to think the trump campaign didn't want them there because it is a reminder of coronavirus asjoe because it is a reminder of coronavirus as joe biden because it is a reminder of coronavirus asjoe biden is trying to make the whole debate about the president handling of the virus and the president didn't like seeing the plexiglas on screen during the vice presidential debate. so as a share optical symbol of coronavirus, that has come down for tonight but that doesn't the mean subject will not come up. the moderator has chosen it as one of her topics in the president will try to get around it by saying a vaccine is under way but the thousand people died yesterday from covid—19. —— people died yesterday from covid-19. -- 1000 people died yesterday from covid—19. —— 1000 people died. rates are going up in more than 30 states. we have the list of issues they want to talk about. covid—i9, families, a broad subject, race in america, climate change, national security, leadership, because

of this two minute blue blooded issue, they probably will be, there couldn't be less discussion of policy. there was no discussion. —— two minute mute button issue. more discussion of policy but we will still be watching for our personality, presentation, style, call it what you will come up between these two. what are you hearing from the trump campaign about whether the president will reign it in a bit compared to last time. well, slightly mixed signals on that front. we hear both of the president has been advised to interrupt less and allowjoe biden to make his own mistake. that is what kellyanne conway is advising. but he also wants to bring up the issue of hunter biden, and he want to say there are illegal business dealings that have gone on and he will hammer home on that one, but he wants to talk about his foreign policy achievements. it seems like a bit of a mixed bag to get it all in there. but

clearly there president advisers have told him it was not a success for you the first time out, now is your chance to doa time out, now is your chance to do a ronald reagan, change the trajectory of the race and go up trajectory of the race and go up ten points which ronald reagan did all those years ago after the final debate. that is the goal for the president tonight, to reset the race and land a punch onjoe biden and one that is meaningful. we said at the intro that there are 12 days to devote but we should remind our viewers around the world that the vote has already started. people have been only birding. use numbers. 47 million americans have already voted. —— people have been been early buddy. so passing the last count four years ago. this really matters. you have 70, 80, 90 million people watching and many might go to the polls tomorrow. but the flip side of thatis tomorrow. but the flip side of that is that about a third of the people that voted in 2016 have already voted, but you have already voted, but you have to assume that their pride

and know they want to support, millions of democrats requested absentee ballots because they we re absentee ballots because they were concerned about the coronavirus and they are supporting joe biden. but it is that question about how many people out there are still undecided. president trump is so undecided. president trump is so successful in 2016 and the closing days of the campaign, he was able to peel people away from hillary clinton who just weren't sure from hillary clinton who just we ren't sure about from hillary clinton who just weren't sure about her. can he do the same thing withjoe biden when he is so much more ofa biden when he is so much more of a known quantity? that is what is fascinating about tonight. and the president be disciplined, stay on his economic message or will he go down the hunter bite arapaho. economic message or will he go down the hunter bite arapaholj wa nt to down the hunter bite arapaholj want to interrupt a second. watching my i president trump motorcade. there is the presidentialflag motorcade. there is the presidential flag flying. —— we are getting a live look at the president trump motorcade. the beast goes with him wherever he travels. the huge motorcade as well. i assume that that motorcade we heard it when we

went on air about ten minutes ago that may have beenjoe biden now you have president arriving and the first for that isa arriving and the first for that is a debate, president trump a too late to be tested at the debate grounds, but we do know that he was tested on air force one flying down to nashville today and he tested negative. that is correct. both candidates have tested negative this time. you have to wear this time. you have to wear this yellow wristband if you have tested negative. i don't know if the president will be. i guess, of course, every goal, the yellow wristband. i had to have the horrible nasal swab yesterday. the 20th time this year. they'll be nice to not have that any more. it is try to mystery exactly why the president didn't have a coronavirus test last time but we do know thatjust coronavirus test last time but we do know that just two days later, he tested positive and waited three weeks it is been and we are seeing a brass previa what joe biden and we are seeing a brass previa whatjoe biden may do tonight from former president

barack obama tonight from former president ba rack obama yesterday tonight from former president barack obama yesterday in philadelphia when he said why would you trust this guy with the coronavirus when he can even protect himself. we will see whether that is a line for joe biden tonight. the president of course think it is all over the world and happening everywhere and the us will be the first with the vaccine. —— will be the first with the vaccine. — — saying will be the first with the vaccine. —— saying it is. latest polling figures from the key battle ground states show thatjoe biden leads in every one except ohio. bear in mind — these are all states donald trump won in 2016. interesting, he is ahead in those swing states and five out of the six, but less co mforta bly of the six, but less comfortably ahead then he is in the national polling where he is in double digits. i think he is in double digits. i think he is still around ten the national polity. and everybody going into this, every democrat

i know going into this and every republican and trump supporter saying yes he is ahead but we all saw what happened with the polls look pretty similarfour happened with the polls look pretty similar four years ago. i was speaking to tom perez earlier today. he was telling me there isn't a bone and his body that is complacent over these numbers we see. democrats suffering from ps td. they will not take any of these figures for granted. you do the things are leaning injoe biden favour. —— suffering from ps td. if you gave president trump three of those come he still needs two of those rust belt states. he needs a pennsylvania. —— ptsd. two adults to get back to the white house. tonight he to speak directly his plan for the next four years for those voters in those areas. those are the voters he has to win tonight and a repeat messiah and the first debate will not work for him. we just got some news

coming in from thejob writing campaign. ——joe coming in from thejob writing campaign. —— joe biden campaign. —— joe biden campaign. the response to what laura was talking about. this is the guest that donald trump has, tony tobobulinski, joining the trump team to watch this debate, the former business associate of hunter bite who said the biden family leverage contact with joe biden said the biden family leverage contact withjoe biden they sent me coming in from thejoe biden campaign, joe biden has never considered being in business with family and he has never held stock in any such business range nor has his family, or any person ever held stock for him what issue is that tony bobulinski admits it on the record to breitbart that he is angry and not able to go into business with hunter and james bite it and also to is that any contrasted joe biden, donald trump has a secret chinese bank account that pays more and carries on. this is the denial. he has ever been trying to leverage contact to

make money for his family. or been involved in a business arrangement of that sort. we are we're joined now by mary anne marsh, who's a democratic communications strategist, and bryan lanza, a republican communications strategist and former deputy communications director for trump—pence campaign in 2016. brian, let's start with you. you know what it is like to be at this very moment where your candidate is waiting to go on stage. anybody who is ever prepped a presidential candidate as you must‘ve done, at this moment you have butterflies you want to crawl up butterflies you want to crawl up in butterflies you want to crawl upina butterflies you want to crawl up in a ball and butterflies you want to crawl up in a balland go butterflies you want to crawl up in a ball and go hide somewhere. terrifying thought. if you're still on the campaign, what will your last minute words of advice be to president trump? thank you for having me. ithink president trump? thank you for having me. i think my last words of advice in that position will be the last person to talk to him as let joe biden hank himself with his own words. if you look where we are, people are bothered by the character of the president but more scared about joe

character of the president but more scared aboutjoe biden in this policy. having the discussion about joe this policy. having the discussion aboutjoe biden policies, the stronger the president chance is a this election and having that dynamic moment it can switch the polls exist. marianne, i guess there is an argument to be made that the campaign that would most like that mute blighted to be unmute it is not actually the trump campaign. it is the biden campaign because the converse is true. the biden campaign is happy for donald trump to perform as he did last time. no question about it. that is what joe time. no question about it. that is whatjoe biden has let donald trump do. really seating most of the ground to donald trump because the more people see donald trump, the less they like them. and that was to after the first debate where his poll numbers plummeted. not when he got covid—19. after the first debate. joe biden goes into night the front runner, all he to do is survive. donald trump is the underdog and he to do something to change the dynamic of this race and the

harder he tries and the more hits because his only motive to attack, his supporters will love it. but it will backfire with everybody else. that is a really tough place to be with 11 days ago. it seems to me that both men have something to improve on from that first debate. quite clearly, donald trump has been given advice from some members of her saying that he has to cool it a bit and less aggression and let donald trump speak more and set out his policies. former vice presidentjoe biden seem to me to be thrown off by some of this stuff last time. he needs to keep the focus and set out what his four years will look like, doesn't he? he needs to do that but he also needs to fend off whatever donald trump sends this way. i think some of the most effective moments he had in the first debate was when he would respond in some way to donald trump defending his family or what have you and then turn directly to the camera and adjust the viewers of voters who are watching

tonight. that is the best thinking can do come he needs to keep scoring points and you need to keep going until the la st need to keep going until the last poll closes. see your point, christian come over 47 million people have already voted. now you're taking boats off of the table, not that many people left to persuade her get to the polls that already voting. they'll be interesting to what approach not onlyjoe biden text but donald trump takes knowing this is the biggest audience in the last time they will have an audience to speak. quite clear from that statement that we just heard that hunter bite and it will be the focus tonight. i wonder if thatis the focus tonight. i wonder if that is risky for the president. after all, this is a president. after all, this is a president who refused to divest from his own business interest and we know he has a bank account in china and his two sons are key political surrogates. while there running the business wasn't a bit hypocritical to pick on hunter biden and joe biden for this issue. no, i think biden and joe biden for this issue. no, ithink there biden and joe biden for this issue. no, i think there is a clay difference. one was vice

president of the united states while the senate was entering in deals. —— a clear difference. that is a clear conflict of interest. some people colour correction. but worthy of some additional scrutiny. the differences between the kids is that the trunk is signed agreements do not participate in any type of foreign deals so you haven't seen that. the criticism is not fair but at the end of the day the president needs to focus on what they were looks like after covid—19. people know at this point hunter biden is a stain oi'i point hunter biden is a stain on the biden name. they are now starting to see more of an effect joe starting to see more of an effectjoe biden starting to see more of an effect joe biden but starting to see more of an effectjoe biden but at starting to see more of an effect joe biden but at the starting to see more of an effectjoe biden but at the end vote rs effectjoe biden but at the end voters will say how does this affect me and as a light anxiety and a lot of questions that need to be answered with respect to covid—19 with the world looks like. the more the president us to fill that space and that narrative and picture and that narrative and picture and story line of what america could look like that is better suited than spending a lot of time on hunter biden. hit it, move on but i don't think it will move the needle. unless

joe biden makes a mistake. will move the needle. unless joe biden makes a mistakelj think joe biden makes a mistake.” think you are right. it will and sincea think you are right. it will and since a lot of the scrutiny tonight, it is onjoe biden. he didn't really do very much in the last debate. trump dominated it, so much. it does from my meat that back in 2016 there was a two week period just before the election where donald trump was and maybe this was you're doing but he was pretty disciplined. —— this reminds me a back in 2016. he dialled that the attacks a little bit and i do wonder how much that help them with those late deciding voters back in 2016 who did it break for late deciding voters back in 2016 who did it breakfor him. he has the capacity to do it. i guess the question is whether he will do it tonight. maybe without brian lands on the team. you're the missing secret sauce. hardly. a lot of people over there that are back again. i would say i think we've all graded the picture of what president trump needs to see.

in 2016, kelly and painted a good fiction to a president to motivate him. she said you don't want to lose the hillary clinton. she is a grossly dislike political figure. clinton. she is a grossly dislike politicalfigure. it would be embarrassing. that was enough to motivate him the last few weeks. jason miller has done the same thing. they said respectfully, joe biden has a two time loser running for president. is somebody who out for plagiarism and exaggerations are well known and his gaffes are well— known. you cannot be the guy that lives to him. let's keep it together. it seems like a small task. —— at that loses to help us task. —— at that loses to help us that were all crossing the fingers. but we will see. the president has gotten to where he is by trusting his own good. and more times he is right and wrong. you don't want to be wrong. you don't want to be wrong in the final two weeks. it's been a good day. sorry. it's been a good day. sorry. it's been a good day for the president. getting his nominee through the senate judiciary committee. when any questions that will lead to joe

committee. when any questions that will lead tojoe biden and it was in the first debate, will he do in the supreme court and always this focus on what the democrats will pack the court. today he has come out with an answer and i'm sure he will expand on it tonight but he says he will set up a commission to look at the court for 180 days, the court system is out of whack. is that the way to reform the court system. yes. i want to make one point. the bunker trunk works for her father in the west wing. she did get five trademarks from china while working for our country. — — ivanovic china while working for our country. —— ivanovic him. i don't think the country is well served by either sibling debate. hopefully we can move onto more things with that —— ivanovic him. on the supreme court, injoe ivanovic him. on the supreme court, in joe biden ivanovic him. on the supreme court, injoe biden was smart to come out ahead of the debate. he did it in the 60 minutes interview. i think putting a commission together isa putting a commission together is a good thing to do. —— ivana trump. many people were critical of the issue. he said that a where proposal cultivar.

to do something like expand the court is worthy of that examination. if you have everybody look at it and try to bring people along politically if you will go down that road. it isa if you will go down that road. it is a far better answer than his first one. which was i will let people know. that will not cut it right now. if we assume as we know. dozens of millions of americans have already voted, there are very few people have been made up their minds between joe biden people have been made up their minds betweenjoe biden and donald trump. they think i guess that both candidates have to do is to motivate, inspire, energise their own supporters enough during the course of the next 90 minutes that those people actually do turn up and go to the polls. that there isn't this disconnect between intent and actual behaviour, which what we saw back in 2016. so to that extent, thatjoe biden, he is not the best debater, he is not massively articulate, he is not barack

obama we saw last night when it comes to retail politics come there a risk for him tonight that if he doesn't perform particularly well, he suppresses enthusiasm and those people perhaps just don't quite bother to go to the polls on election day? you have a combination of things going on. donald trump may not perform well tonight but he has been doing his rallies. to get people out of up barack obama did a great rally yesterday in philadelphia. he is going to miami and elsewhere. joe biden has to do and perform well enough. he didn't have to hit home runs. he just enough. he didn't have to hit home runs. hejust need enough. he didn't have to hit home runs. he just need to hit singles tonight. and continue to get back out of the campaign drafted the debate tonight and all the surrogates to come up barack obama and a host of other people and get people to vote. there will be a big shift coming over these next 11 days. early voting has been off the charts, the likes of which we have never seen for a variety of reasons. but i fully expect republican voters to come out much closer to the election day

and on election day and i think that will swamp the polls, sulphur democrats, it's very important to get people out to vote by mail our vote in person i'iow vote by mail our vote in person now early so you have a sense of what the numbers are. democrats are good at early voting and get a day of voting geo tv. historically, republicans have been better at early voting and not so much that they up and that is the thing that is most fascinating. we have numbers like this, by midnight, 48 million people have voted. what does that really mean? i'm not sure that we know but we are about to find out and 11 days. i said earlier there would be 70 or 80 million people watching this. i tell you what else will also be watching. it will be sin and congressional candidates lower down the ballot who of course will be in tight races. —— it will be in tight races. —— it will be in tight races. —— it will be senate. more than ever before maybe. what happens at the top of the ticket is influencing their races. of course. but it is righted by this point. you are all in. you

cannot distance yourself in the final two weeks. —— a ride or die at this point. you can't say you are not what this team. laughter. some have, haven't they? it is a noble effort. but you are in. it is cute but what they are trying to do and create the separation but there is no separating republican candidates from president trump oi'i candidates from president trump on the ballot. the party will either rise by hand or they will sink by him. that is where we are at this point. those are the calculations we have made. the senators, they will do what they need to do but at the good nobody expects them to outperform president trump in texas. he better hope that president trump goes over the finish line with a strong wind behind him. if he wins he has to go again. come got to be shot of the hall. ? we just saw melania trump walking again wearing the

mask. she did not wear during the last presidential debate. the trunk family all their wearing masks. that is a change of appearance to look like. —— trunk family. it is one of the rules. laura trevelyan still out there. i don't know if you seen them but something different. it looks like people are sticking to the rules a little bit more closely for this one. it was the role last time as well. you were supposed to wear a mask if you're in the hall and the trunk family last time in cleveland, they walked in rather ostentatiously wearing the mask. most of them. and then took them off. but now we have been hearing from the commission on presidential debates in the preprogram and it is been made very clear that if anybody takes out that masks that will be breaking the rule and they will be approached by somebody from the staff of the commission and asked to put

them back on again which is what happened in cleveland but they were ignored. so yes coronavirus, no escaping it. in more than 30 states we see coronavirus cases going up. americans are going inside for the winter. coronavirus in front and centre tonight on that debate. for viewers who arejust to in tojoin us, we look at the stage there, we should repeat the fact that anthony fauci has been here observing what is going on despite his differences with the president. the plexiglas which was supposed to be on stage has been removed. that is right. we are told that is because doc fact he said it was 0k to have it removed. both candidates have tested negative for coronavirus. —— doctor fauci said. they will be 12 feet and eight inches apart. even though they are inside, apparently doctor fauci feels comfortable with the fact that the virus wouldn't travel if either of them were to be infected. remember the last time president was on the

debate stage were joe biden he almost was infected with coronavirus because just two days after that, he tested positive. he been at that super shredder event in the rose garden. when he introduced amy coney barrett. — — garden. when he introduced amy coney barrett. —— super shredder event. so much has happened in the last three weeks. not least that amy barrett now the being moved forward. and i'm sure he will mention that tonight about getting a third supreme court justice onto the court. let's pull out from the debate stage if we can. there we can see kristin walker, who is the nbc white house correspondent and anchor who is the moderator of this debate. let's see if she has a little bit of an easier job tonight and chris wallace. there is that mute button. chris wallace in the first debate were watching really struggling to get the rules enforced at all. it was the

president who interrupted more thanjoe president who interrupted more than joe biden did president who interrupted more thanjoe biden did bolasie weather tonight that works better. she has just weather tonight that works better. she hasjust gone weather tonight that works better. she has just gone to ta ke better. she has just gone to take her seat. quickly, better. she has just gone to take herseat. quickly, run better. she has just gone to take her seat. quickly, run us to the format. in 90 minute debate, six topics tonight, ranging from coronavirus to leadership, each candidate gets a two minute opening statement during that opening statement and a microphone of the other will be muted. that isn't to say there would not be yelling but the ideas we should get 24 uninterrupted minutes from which we will be hearing for the two candidates. after the opening statement from each side, there is a free—for—all and a 50 minute section in on you go to the next. it should bea you go to the next. it should be a more substantive debate. remember chris wallace was hoping he would be an invisible moderator going into the last debate. he became completely trampled on so let's hope that the seating is a little less

chaotic and more informative for the american people. strange to think that these two sectors have been such seasoned performers, they perform every day in front of crowds and on television and in interviews, but they can't be anything quite like this 80 million people are turned again, you know it all hangs on this debate, and of course from joe biden, we have that pole lead, all you have to do is carry that across the marble floor and just don't drop it. the pressure what that is immense. yes. absolutely. matthew dowd, one of the political analyst he said this morning joe biden is to keep the channel tool to easily listening and help the president stays on heavy metal. so what will happen, the president is capable of laser focus. when he wants to. just

the question is is he going to focus or go down the rabbit hole or talk about his vision for the second term. back in cleveland, trump advisers were telling me that president will articulate his vision for a second term tonight. he didn't. but tonight this is a chance. to change the dynamic of the race. do you think he came away from that and whether he came away from it initially as he has said and thought he had a good performance and then looked at the polls and saw it damaged them but do you think the message got through to him to the polling or his team? that he needed to a different approach tonight or through your understand he thinks the last time was fine? he was thrilled, personally, after the last debate. it is the classic thing that happens in the trump universe which is that the king does not want to

hear what the courtiers really think but after becoming ill with coronavirus he did see that as number sled and you have heard to matters rallies talking recently about women, like me, i am doing everything for you. he is hearing that support is slipping with seniors and suburban women so you can expect him to say that he is doing something for those groups whereas joe biden, he is doing something for those groups whereasjoe biden, don't drop the vase but kelly and conway, one of the present‘s advisers are saying let him speak and hang himself. she felt sure that he would say something stupid and the president interrupted him and did not give him the chance. we will see how this advice plays out injust a will see how this advice plays out in just a few minutes' time. we were just hearing that. it is kind of like both teams are hoping that the other team has enough rope to hang themselves, right? donald trump has set the bar quite low forjoe biden and her stepped over it. that has been part of the problem for

donald trump. he set expectations so low. or you could say that having performed as he did last time, the bar is set low for donald trump. there was a chance that donald trump just interrupts 20% less tonight and everyone comes away and says, well. donald trump didn't interrupt very much so it isa didn't interrupt very much so it is a better debate for him. it is all expectations, i guess. the question is how the expectations have been set but there will be, we hope, tonight, more of an actual debate. more policy, and laura, do you this could be the debate where, having sort of avoided theissue where, having sort of avoided the issue for the campaign so far, president trump actually gives us an agenda for the next four years because it has been something missing from his campaign up until now. absolutely. in fact he got very ci’oss absolutely. in fact he got very cross with the cbs interviewer when she pressed on what his agenda for a second term was. this is his chance to spell it out and as you say, it is right

that the expectations are low for him because the first debate was so chaotic and in clevela nd debate was so chaotic and in cleveland the trump campaign was basically saying that if joe biden did not dribble than it would be a successful night for him. he was much more articulate than they may turn out to be. now it seems to be that his son is corrupt and that his son is corrupt and thatis that his son is corrupt and that is what they are hoping to highlight tonight and say that he is selling access to power but that may be a dodgy road to go down given that the trump children are involved in the family business and one is in the white house. it is the scatter—gun effect. can be president focus or will it be all over the place? we shall soon see. the present's instinct is good sometimes. in 2016 that closing statement, drain the swamp, get rid of the establishment. that worked well. i'm just going to jump well. i'm just going tojump in. let's ta ke i'm just going tojump in. let's take a listen. i am from nbc news and i welcome you to

the final 2020 presidential debate between president donald trump and former vice president joe biden. this is conducted under health and safety protocols designed by the health commission's security adviser. the audience has promised to remain silent. no cheers or other interruptions except right now as we welcome to the stage former vice presidentjoe biden and presidentjoe biden and president donald trump. applause. ido want i do want to see a very good evening to both of you. this debate will cover six major

topics and each candidate will have two minutes uninterrupted to a nswer have two minutes uninterrupted to answer my first question. the debate commission will then turn on their microphone only when it is their turn to answer and the commission will turn it off exactly when the two minutes have expired and after that both microphones will remain on but on behalf of the voters i'm going to ask you to speak one at a time. the goal is for you to hear each other and for the american people to hear every word of what you both have to say. if you are ready, let's start. and we will begin with the fight against the coronavirus. president trump first question is for you. the country is heading into a dangerous new phase. 40,000 americans are in hospital tonight with covid including regular members here in tennessee and since the two of you last shared a stage, 16,000 americans have died from covid so please be specific. how would you leave the country during this next stage of the

coronavirus crisis. two minutes uninterrupted. so, as you know. 2.2 million people we re as you know. 2.2 million people were expected to die. we closed up were expected to die. we closed up the greatest economy in the world in order to fight this horrible disease that came from china. it is a worldwide pandemic, it is all over the world and you see the spikes in europe and many other places right if you notice the mortality rate is down 85%. the excess mortality rate is way down and much lower than almost any other country and we are fighting it and we're fighting it out. there is a spike. there was a spike in florida and it has now gone. it was a very big spike in texas and it is now gone. there was a very big spike in arizona and it is now gone. and there were spikes and surges in other places and they will soon be gone. we have a vaccine that is coming. it is ready. it is going to be announced weeks and it is going to be delivered. we have operation warp speed. the

military is going to distribute the vaccine and i can tell you from personal experience that, i was from personal experience that, iwas in from personal experience that, i was in the hospital. i had it andi i was in the hospital. i had it and i got better and i will tell you that i had something that they gave me. a therapeutic, i guess they would call it. some people would say it isa call it. some people would say it is a cure. i was in very short period of time and i got better very fast so i would not better very fast so i would not be here tonight and now they say i am immune. whether it is four months or a lifetime, nobody has been able to say that but i am immune. more and more people are getting better. we have a problem that is a worldwide problem. this is a worldwide problem. this is a worldwide problem. this is a worldwide problem but i have been congratulated by the heads many countries and what we have been able to do. if you take a look at what we have done in terms of goggles and masks and gowns and everything else, and particular ventilators. we are now making ventilators all over the world. thousands and thousands, distributing them all over the world. it will go away. and as i say, we are

rounding the turn, we rounded the corner. it is going away. former vice president biden to you. how would you lead the country out of this crisis? 220,000 americans dead. you hear nothing else i say tonight, hear this. anyone who is responsible for not taking control, in fact, not saying, i ta ke control, in fact, not saying, i take no responsibility of italy. anyone responsible for that many dead should not remain as president of the united states of america. we are ina united states of america. we are in a situation where1000 deaths a day now. 1000 deaths a day and there are over 70,000 new cases per day. compared to what is going on in europe, as the new england medicaljournal said, they are starting from a very low rate. we are starting from a very high rate. the expectation is we will have another 200,000 americans dead in the time between now and the

end of the year. if we just wore these masks, the president's own advisers have told him, we could save 100,000 lives. and we have any circumstance where the president thus far still has no plan. no comprehensive plan. what i would do is make sure we have everyone encouraged to wear a mask all the time. i would make sure we move in the direction of rapid testing, investing in rapid testing. i would make sure that we set up national standards of how to open up schools and open up businesses so they can be safe. and give them the wherewithal, the financial resources to be able to do that. we are in a situation now where the new england medical journal, one situation now where the new england medicaljournal, one of the most seriousjournals in the most seriousjournals in the whole world set for the first time ever that the way this president has responded to this president has responded to this crisis has been absolutely tragic. and so, folks, iwill ta ke tragic. and so, folks, iwill take care of this. i will end this. i will make sure we have a plan. president trump i would like to follow up with you and

your comments and you talked about taking a therapeutic, i assume you are referencing a specific one. you said a vaccine is coming within weeks, is that a guarantee? it is not a guarantee. but probably within a matter of weeks and it would be distributed very quickly. can you tell us which companies? johnson &johnson are doing well and we have numerous others and then we also have others we are working on very closely with other countries, and particular europe. let me follow up with you because this is new information per doubling of said a vaccine is coming. the country will be wearing masks, distancing into 2022. is your timeline realistic? i think my timeline realistic? i think my timeline is going to be more accurate. i don't know that they are counting on the military the way i did but we have our generals lined up. one in particular that is the head of logistics and this is a very easy distribution for him. he is ready to go as soon as we have the vaccine. and we expect to have 100 million vials and as soon as we have the vaccine

he is ready to go. your reaction. just 40% of americans say they were definitely agreed to ta ke say they were definitely agreed to take a coronavirus vaccine if it was approved by the government. what steps would you take to give americans confidence in a vaccine approved? make sure it is totally transparent. other scientists see it, know it, look at it. go through all the processes and by the way, this is the fellow who said this would end by easter last time. this is the same fellow who told you, don't worry, we will end this by the summer. we are about to go into a dark winter. a dark winter. and he has no clear plan and there is no prospect that there is going to bea prospect that there is going to be a vaccine available for the majority of the american people before the middle of next year. i don't think we will have a dark winter article. we are opening up our country. we have learned and studied and understood the disease which we did not at the beginning. when i closed and banned china from coming in heavily infected and

ultimately europe. china was in january. months later he was saying i was xenophobic. i did it to sin. now he is saying i should have moved quicker. but he did not move quicker. he was months behind me, many months behind me. he ran swine flu and it was a total disaster. far less lethal but it was a total disaster. had this had that kind of numbers, 700,000 people would be dead right now. but it was a far less lethal disease. his own person who ran that for him who was his chief of staff, said it was catastrophic. it was horrible and now comes up and tells us how to do that. everything he said about every single movie said we should make, that is what we have done. we have done all of it. he was way behind us.

my responses he is xenophobic but not because he shut down access from china. he did it late after 40 countries had already done it. he made sure that we had 44 people in there in china trying to get to find out what the source was. what did he say injanuary he said he is being transparent, we owe him a debt of gratitude. and then what happened was we started talking about using the defence act to say we were going to get what was needed out there to protect people. he did virtually nothing and then get out of the hospital and he talks about, don't worry. this is all going to be over soon. come on. if not another serious scientist in the world thinks it is going to be over soon.” say we are learning to live with it. we have no choice, we cannot lock ourselves up in a basement likejoe does.

cannot lock ourselves up in a basement like joe does. he cannot lock ourselves up in a basement likejoe does. he has the ability to lock himself up. i don't know. he's obviously made a lot of money some place but he has this thing about living in a basement. people can't do that. by the way, i come as the president, could not do that. i would love to put myself in a basement or a beautiful room in the white house and go away for a year—and—a—half until it disappears but i can't do that. every meeting i had. every meeting i had, and i would meet a lot of families including gold starfamilies a lot of families including gold star families and a lot of families including gold starfamilies and military families. every meeting i i had to meet them. i had to. it would have been horrible been horrible to cancel everything that i said, you know, this is dangerous. i cut it, i learned a lot. great doctors, great hospitals. and now i have recovered. 99 .9 of young people recover. 99% of people recover. we have to recover. we can close up our nation. we can close up our nation or

you will not have a nation. the cdc has said that young people can get sick with covid—19 and 10%. vice president biden i wa nt to 10%. vice president biden i want to talk about strategy, though. he says that we are learning to live with it. people are learning to die with it. you folks at home will have an empty chairat it. you folks at home will have an empty chair at the kitchen table this morning. that man by going to bed tonight reaching over to try to touch, out of habit, whether wife or husband is gone. learning to live with it? come on. we are dying with it? come on. we are dying with it because he has never said. said it is dangerous but when is the last time, is it really dangerous tell people it is dangerous tell people it is dangerous now. what should they do about the danger? and you say, i take no responsibility. let me talk at... i take full responsibility. it is not my fault that it came here. it is china's fold. and it is not joe's fault that you came here either. it is china's vault. they kept it from going into the rest of china for the most

pa rt the rest of china for the most part but they did not keep coming out to the world including europe and ourselves. vice president biden. the fact is when we knew it was coming, what happened? is when we knew it was coming, what happened ? what is when we knew it was coming, what happened? what did the president say, he said don't worry, it will be gone by easter. don't worry, the warm weather. maybe inject bleach. he said he was kidding but a lot of people thought he was serious. a whole range of things the president has said, even today, he thinks we are in control. we are about to lose 200,000 more people. look, perhapsjust to finish this. i was kidding on that. but just to finish this. i was kidding on that. butjust to to finish this. i was kidding on that. but just to finish this. when i closed he said i should not have closed. and that went on for months. nancy pelosi said the same thing and she was dancing in the streets of chinatown in san francisco but when i closed he said, this isa but when i closed he said, this is a terrible thing. you are xenophobic. i think you called me racist even because i was closing into china. now he says i should have closed it

earlier. joe, doesn't work. i did not say either of those things. you certainly did. you certainly did. i talked about xenophobia in a different context that abbott was not about closing the border to chinese coming to the united states. i want to talk about both of your different strategies. he thought i should not have closed the border. do you want to respond to that quickly, vice president? no. lets talk about your different strategies towards dealing with this. you suggest it would support new shutdowns of scientist recommended it. what you stated americans were fea rful you stated americans were fearful about the cost of shutdowns on the economy, higher rates of hunger, depression, substance abuse, outweighs the risk of the virus? i will shut down the virus, not the country. it is his ineptitude that was because we do have to shut down a large part, why businesses have gone under, schools are closed, simply have lost their living and are concerned. there's other concerns are real which is why he should have been,

instead of in a sand trap that is golf course, should have been negotiating with nancy pelosi and the rest of the democrats and republicans about what to do of attacks they were patting for billions of dollars to make sure people had to be capacity. you have not ruled out more shutdowns. look, they need standards. the standard is if you have a reproduction rate ina if you have a reproduction rate in a community that is above a certain level everybody says, slow up. more social distancing. do not open bars and do not open gymnasiums. do not open until you get this under control. under more control. but when you do that then give the people the capacity to be able to open and give the capacity to do it safely. for example, schools. schools need a lot of my two of them. they need ventilation systems and the need to deal with smaller classes, more teachers, more pods. and he has refused to support that money or at least up until now. talk about schools. i have to respond if i might. i appreciate that. all he does is

talk about shutdowns but forget about him. his democrat governors, look at what is going on in california, pennsylvania, north carolina. democrats all. there are shut down so tight and they are dying. they are dying. he supports all of these people. all he talks about a shutdowns. no. we are not going to shut down and we had to open our schools. as an example, i have a young son and he also tested positive. by the time i spoke to the doctor the second time he was fine. itjust to the doctor the second time he was fine. it just went to the doctor the second time he was fine. itjust went away. young people, i guess it is their immune system. let me follow u p their immune system. let me follow up with you. you have demanded schools open in person and insisted they can do it safely but just yesterday boston became the latest city to move its public school system entirely online after coronavirus spike. what is your message to parents who worry that sending their children to school will endanger not only but also the teachers and families? i want to open the schools. the transmission rate

to teachers is very small. i wa nt to to teachers is very small. i want to open the schools. we have to open a country. we will not have a country. we can't do this. we cannot keep this country closed. this is a massive country with a massive economy and people are losing theirjobs and economy and people are losing their jobs and committing suicide. there is depression, alcohol, drugs, at a level nobody has ever seen before. there is abuse, tremendous abuse. we have to open our country. i have said it often. the cure cannot be worse than the problem itself. that is what is happening. and he wants to close down. you will close down the country if one person in our massive bureaucracy says we should close it down. vice president biden, your response. we should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time but we ought to be able to safely open but they need resources to open. you need to be able to, for example, if you're going to opena for example, if you're going to open a business, have social distancing in the business. if you have a restaurant, you need to have plexiglas dividers so people cannot impact one

another. you need to be in a position where you can take testing rapidly and know whether a person is in fact infected. you need to be able to trace. you need to be able to trace. you need to be able to provide all the resources that are needed to do this and that are needed to do this and thatis that are needed to do this and that is not inconsistent with saying what we are going to make sure that we can open safely. by the way, all you teachers out there. not that many of you are going to die so don't worry about it. don't worry about it. come on. let me follow up with you quickly. if you look at what is happening in new york it is a ghost town and when you talk about plexiglas, these are restau ra nts about plexiglas, these are restaurants that are dying. these are businesses with no money. putting up plexiglas is unbelievable, unbelievably expensive and it is not the answer. will you sit in a cubicle wrapped around on plastic. these are businesses that are dying, joe. you cannot do that to people. you just cannot take a look at new york in what is happening to my

wonderful city to so many yea rs. wonderful city to so many years. i love that it is vibrant. it years. i love that it is vibra nt. it is years. i love that it is vibrant. it is dying. vice president biden. take a look at what new york has done in terms of turning the car down in terms of people dying. i do not look at it in terms of blue states and red states, they are all the united states. and look at the state having such a spike in the coronavirus. they are the red states. the artist states in the midwest and upper midwest. that is where the spike is occurring significantly but they are all americans. they are all americans. they are all americans and what we have to do is say, where these masks. numberone. make sure do is say, where these masks. number one. make sure we get the help that the businesses need. money has already been passed to do that. it has been out there since the beginning of the summerand out there since the beginning of the summer and nothing has happened. new york has lost more than 40,000 people. 11,000 people. when you say spike, ta ke people. when you say spike, take a look at what is happening in pennsylvania. where they have had it closed. take a look at what is happening with your friend in

michigan where your husband —— met her husband is the only one allowed to do anything. that was just ruled unconstitutional. take a look at north carolina. they are having spikes and they have been closed. getting killed financially. we cannot let that happen,j. financially. we cannot let that happen, j. you financially. we cannot let that happen,j. you can financially. we cannot let that happen, j. you can put that happen. you have to open up and we understand the disease. we have to protect our seniors. we have to protect our seniors. we have to protect our seniors. we have to protect our elderly. we have to protect our elderly. we have to protect our elderly. we have to protect, especially our seniors with heart problems and diabetes problems. and we will protect stopping at the best testing in the world by far. that is why we have so many cases. let follow up with you before we move on to our next section. the nation's best known infectious disease expert you code a disaster. if you are not listening to experts who are you listening to? i am listening to all of them including anthony. but he did say don't wear masks. you did say, as you know, this is not going to be a problem. i think

he isa going to be a problem. i think he is a democrat but that is 0k. he he is a democrat but that is ok. he said, i think this is not going to be a problem. we are not going to have a problem at all. when joe are not going to have a problem at all. whenjoe said that i said anthony sed and others and many others, and i'm not knocking him. nobody knew. look, nobody knew what this thing was that nobody knew where it was coming from, we have learned a lot but anthony said, don't wear masks. now he wa nts to said, don't wear masks. now he wants to wear masks. and they also said if you look back, exact words. this is no problem. this is going to go away soon. so he is allowed to make mistakes. he happens to be a good person. your response quickly and then we will move on. my think about what the president knew in january and did not the american people. he was told this was a serious virus and it was much worse than the flue. he went on re cord than the flue. he went on record and said to one of your colleagues that in fact he knew how dangerous it was but he did not want to tell us. we did not

wa nt not want to tell us. we did not want to tell us because he didn't want us to panic. americans don't panic, he panicked. we found out in the new york times that his folks we nt new york times that his folks went to wall street and said, this is a really dangerous thing and a memo out of that meeting, not from his administration but from elsewhere said short because we have got to get moving. it is a dangerous time. i will give you 30 seconds. you're the one who ta kes all 30 seconds. you're the one who takes all the money from wall street. i don't take it. you have raised a lot of money. tremendous amounts of money. and every time you raise money, i could be so much more money as president under somebody that knows most of those people. i could call the heads of wall street, the heads of every com pa ny of wall street, the heads of every company in america. i would blow away every vectored but i do not want to do that because it puts me in a bad position and then you bring up wall street. you should not be bringing up wall street because you are the one that takes the money from wall street, not me. i could blow away your records likely would not believe. we don't need money. we have

plenty of money. in fact, we beat clinton with a tiny fraction of the money she had. average contribution $43. we will move on to our next section which is national security and i do want to start with the security of our elections and some breaking news from over night. just last night top intelligence officials confirmed that russia and iran are working influence the selection. both countries have obtained us voter registration information of these officials say, and iran has sent intimidating messages to florida voters. this question goes to you mr vice president put up what could you do to put an end to this thread. you have two minutes uninterrupted. i made it clear andl uninterrupted. i made it clear and i ask everyone else to take the pledge. any country, no matter who it is, that interferes in american elections will pay a price. they will pay a price. i won't even get into the last one. this election, russia has been involved, china has been involved, china has been involved to some degree and now we learn that iran has been

involved. they will pay a price ifi involved. they will pay a price iflam involved. they will pay a price if i am elected. they're interviewing with american sovereignty. that is what is going on right now. they're interfering with american sovereignty. to the best of my knowledge i don't think the president has said anything to putin about it and i don't think he has said a word. i don't know why he has not said anything to president putin about it and i don't know what he has recently said to the iranians. my guess is he probably would be more outspoken with regard to the iranians but the point is this, folks. we are in a situation where we have foreign countries trying to interfere in the outcome of our election. his own national security adviser told him that what is happening with his buddy, well, i will. his buddy rudy giuliani. he has been used as a russian pawn of that information that is not true. and what happens question mark nothing happens. and then you find out that everything is going on here in russia is

wanting to make sure that i do not get elected the next president of the united states because they know i know them and they know me. i don't understand why this president is unwilling to take on putin when he is actually paying bounties to kill american soldiers in afghanistan. and he is engaged in activities that are trying to destabilise all of nato. i don't know why he does do it but it is worth asking the question. why is it that that is not being done? any country interfering with as will in fact pay a price because they are affecting our sovereignty. president trump was at the same question to you. you have two minutes to respond. for two elections in a row now there has been substantial interference from foreign adversaries. what would you do on your next time to put an end let me respond to the first part as joanne an end let me respond to the first part asjoanne said. joe got between million dollars from russia and it through putin because he was very friendly with the former mayor of moscow and it was the mayor

of moscow and it was the mayor of moscow's wife and you got three and have million dollars. yourfamily three and have million dollars. your family gotthree and have million dollars on sunday you will have to explain why you got to be into her. i never got any money from russia. i don't get money from russia. about europe, last night. i knew all about that. through john europe, last night. i knew all about that. throuthohn he was fantastic. he said, the one thing that is common to both of them. they both want you to lose because there has been nobody tougher to russia between the sanctions. nobody tougher than me on russia between the sanctions, between all of what i have done. i have got the nato countries to put up got the nato countries to put up an extra 130 billion going to $420 billion a year. i sold, while he was selling pillows and sheets i sold tank busters to ukraine. there has been nobody tougher on russia than donald trump. and i will tell you, they were so bad they took

over the submarine port. you remember that very well. during your term, you and barack obama. they took a very big pa rt obama. they took a very big part of what should have been ukraine. you handed it to them but you are getting a lot of money from russia. they were paying you a lot of money and they probably still are. but now, with what came out today, it is even worse. all of the e—mails. the e—mails, the horrible e—mails of the kind of money that you are raking in, you and your family. joe you we re you and your family. joe you were vice president but some of this was happening and it should have never happened. and i think you owe an explanation to the american people. i use it, somebodyjust had a news conference a little while ago who was essentially supposed to work with you and your family but what he said was damning. and regardless of me, i think you have to clean it up and talk to the american people. you may respond but i want to turn to election security.” have not ta ken turn to election security.” have not taken a bribe from any foreign source in my life. we

have learned that this president paid 50 times the tax in china and has a secret bank account with china and does business in china and in fact is talking about me taking money? i've not taken a single penny from any country whatsoever, ever. number one. numbertwo, whatsoever, ever. number one. number two, this is a president, and i have released all of my tax returns, 22 years, go all of my tax returns, 22 years, go and look at them, 22 years, go and look at them, 22 years of my tax returns and you have not released a single solitary year of your tax returns. what are you hiding? why are you unwilling? foreign countries are paying you a lot. russia is paying you a lot. china is paying you a lot. all of your hotels and businesses around the country, all around the world, and china is building a new road to a golf course you have overseas, so what is going on? why not release your tax returns and stop talking about corruption? your response? i called my accou nts your response? i called my accounts under audit and i want

to release them and it will show how successful and great this company years, but people are saying $750, i asked them a week ago and i said, what are they paying? they said, you pre—paid tens of millions of dollars. i pre—paid my tax. tens of millions over the last few years, tens of millions over the last few yea rs, i tens of millions over the last few years, i prepaid. because at some point, they think, it's an estimate, they think i might have to pay tax so i prepaid it but nobody told you that. excuse me. and it wasn't written, and they keep talking about $750 which i think is a filing fee, but let me tell you, i prepaid millions and millions of dollars in taxes. number two, millions of dollars in taxes. numbertwo, i millions of dollars in taxes. number two, i don't make money from china. you do. i don't make money from ukraine, you do. i don't make money from russia. you made three and a half million dollars, joe, and they even have a statement that we have to give 10% to the big

man, you are the big man, i think. maybe you are not. you are the big man, i think. your sons and we have to give 10% of the big man. what is that about? —— your son said.” the big man. what is that about? -- your son said. i will let you both respond very quickly, but you did say you spoke to your accountant without releasing your taxes, so do you have a deadline for when he will release them?” get treated worse than the tea party got treated. there are a lot of people in the irs who treat me horribly. we made a deal and it was all settled until i ran for president. i get treated very badly by the irs, very unfairly. we had a deal all done and as soon as we are completed with the deal i wa nt to are completed with the deal i want to release it but i have paid millions and millions of dollars and it's worth than paying, because it's called pre—your taxes. paying, because it's called pre-your taxes. i want to ask you both about questions regarding your potential foreign entanglements and questions raised and i will give you both a chance to talk

about this more broadly. respond quickly and i will get to the question. he has been saying this for four years. show us. just show us. stop playing around. you've been playing around. you've been playing for four years saying you going to do it for four years, but people do know that you are not paying your taxes or you are paying taxes that are so low. last time he said i only paid that low because i am smart andl only paid that low because i am smart and i know how to game the system. come on. come on, folks. president trump, then question to both of you.” folks. president trump, then question to both of you. i was put through a phony witchhunt for three years. it started before i even got elected. they spied on my campaign and no president should ever have to go through what i went through. let mejust go through what i went through. let me just say this. robert muller and 18 angry democrats, and fbi agents all over the yea rs and fbi agents all over the years spent $28 million and went through everything i had,

including my tax returns and they found absolutely no collusion and nothing wrong. 48 million. i guarantee if i spent 1 million i could find plenty wrong, because the kinds of things that you've done and the kind of that family has taken,, imean your kind of that family has taken,, i mean your brother made money in iraq and your other brother made a fortune and it's all through you and they say you get some of it, and you do very well with houses all over the place. you live very well. let mejust ask some place. you live very well. let me just ask some questions about this. there have been questions about the work your son has done in china and 40 ukrainian energy company when you are vice president. in retrospect, was anything about those relations it's inappropriate or unethical? nothing was unethical. here is the deal. with regard to ukraine. we had this whole question about whether because he was on the board of a company that somehow i had done

something wrong, yet every single, solitary person when he was going through his impeachment testifying under oath who worked for him said he did hisjob oath who worked for him said he did his job impressively oath who worked for him said he did hisjob impressively and carried out us policy. and not single solitary thing was out of line. numberone. number two, the guy who got in trouble in ukraine was this guy trying to bribe the ukrainian government to say something negative about me, which they would not do and did not do, because it never, ever happen. my son has not made money in terms of this thing about china. the only guy who made money from china is this guy. the only one. nobody else has made money from china. president trump? let me ask my question to you. just one thing. his son didn't have a job for a long time, and is sadly no longer in military service and i won't get into that, and he didn't have a job and as soon as he became vice

president, not the best reputation in the world, they paid him 483,000 a month. listen to this. hundred and 83,000 a month. listen to this. 183,000 months and they gave him a million up front and he had no energy... i will let the vice president reply. no basis for that and everybody investigated that nobody said anything that he did was wrong in ukraine. president trump, since you took office you have never diverted from your business and have personally promoted your properties abroad and a report this week indicated your company has a bank account in china, so how can bank account in china, so how ca n voters bank account in china, so how can voters know you don't have foreign conflicts of interest? i have many bank accounts, all listed, all over the place. i was a businessman, doing business all over the place. the bank account you refer to is listed. the bank account was in 2013, that's when it was and it was closed in 2015, i

believe. and then i decided because i was thinking about doing the deal on china, like millions of other people, i was thinking about it and i decided i'm not going to do it, didn't like it and decided not to do it, had an account open and i closed it. excuse me. and unlike him, where he is vice president and he does business, i then decided to run for president after that and that was before, so i closed it before i even ran for president. let alone became president. let alone became president. big difference. he is the vice president of the us and his son, his brother and his other brother are getting rich. they are like a vacuum cleaner... president trump we need to move on. not true. i do need to move on. not true. i do need to move on. not true. i do need to ask you present —— joe biden about china. of course president trumper said that china should pay for not being fully transparent with coronavirus and if you were president, what would you make

china play, and what would it look like? i think china should play by the international rules, not like he has done as he has caused the deficit of china to go up not down with china, up not down. we are making sure that to do business in china you have to give all of your intellectual property and have a partner in china at 5196 and have a partner in china at 51% and we would not do that at all, number one. 51% and we would not do that at all, numberone. numbertwo, we are ina all, numberone. numbertwo, we are in a situation where china would have to play by the rules internationally as well. when i meant with president she, he said he would send up drones in the south china sea and you can't fly through them, and we would just send be 52 bombers through it and not pay attention. they have to play by the rules. and what does he do? he embraces the thugs in north korea and the chinese president and vladimir putin and others and vladimir putin and others and he pokes his finger at all of our friends, all of our allies. we make up 25% of the

world's economy. we need to be having the rest of our friends with us, saying to china, these are the rules and you play by them or you will pay the price for not playing by them economically and that's the way i will write, and that is what i will write, and that is what i will still do. let's talk about north korea. i have to respond to that. very quickly. 1,000,000,000 anda respond to that. very quickly. 1,000,000,000 and a half china $2, spending ten minutes in an office and being on force two. number two, there's a very strong e—mail about your family wanting to make $10 million a yearfor introductions. president trump, on china policy, what are you going to do to make china pay? china is paying. they are paying billions and billions of dollars. in the sanctions? they just gave $28 billion to the

farmers. china? that is taxpayers money. it's called china. not true. do you know what they did to pay it? they devalued the currency and they also paid up, so the money, the farmers, they were targeted and you never charge them anything. and i also charge them 25% on dumped steel because they were killing our steel industry and we we re killing our steel industry and we were not going to have a steel industry and now we do. vice president biden, your response? there is a reason why he's bringing up all of this malarkey, a reason for it. he doesn't want to talk about the substantive issues. it's not about his family and my family, it's about my family, and your family is hurting badly. if you're making less, middle—class family, you are getting hurt badly. you are sitting at the kitchen table despoiling that we cannot get new car tyres because we have to make another month or will we pay the mortgage. who's

going to tell her she cannot go back to community college? those of the decisions you are making, middle—class families like i grew up in, they are in trouble. we should be talking about your families but that's the last thing he wants to talk about. excuse me, one second. ten seconds. a political statement. lets get off the china thing and look at the family, around the table. just a typical politician. i'm not a typical politician, that's why i got elected. let's get off the subject of china and talk about sitting around the table. come on, joe, you can do better. we are going to talk about north korea and you have meant with the leader three times and talked about your meaningful letters with him and the fact that there has not been a war or the fact that there has not beena warora the fact that there has not been a war or a long—range missile test but north korea recently rolled out its biggest ever intercontinental ballistic missile and develops its unity —— nuclear arsenal. do you see that as a relationship you

forged? when i met with barack obama, who said at the white house, right at the beginning, great conversation, supposed to be 15 minutes and well over an hour, he said the biggest problem we have is north korea. he indicated we will be in a war with north korea, and guess what, it would be a nuclear war, and he does have plenty of nuclear capability. in the meantime, i have a very good relationship with him. different kind of guy, but he robbie thinks the same thing about me but we have a different kind of relationship and there is no war —— probably thinks. about two months ago he broke into a certain area and we said there would be trouble, andi we said there would be trouble, and i said it wouldn't, because he's not going to do that and i was right. it's 25 miles away, and millions and millions of people would be dead right now. president trump, that is 32nd. vice president biden. north korea conducted four nuclear tests. why do you think you

would be able to rein in this persistent threat? because i make it clear, like i make it to china, that they have be pa rt of to china, that they have be part of the deal because as a spokesperson of the administration when i went to china, they said why are you moving your missile defences, so close? moving your missile defences, so close ? why moving your missile defences, so close? why are you continuing military manoeuvres with south korea ? continuing military manoeuvres with south korea? i said, because north korea is a problem. and we are going to continue to do it so we can control them and we are going to make sure we can control them and make sure they cannot hurt us. so if you want to do something about it, step up and help, if not, it will continue. what has he done? he has legitimised north korea and talked about his good buddy who was a thug and talks about how we are better off, and they have much more capable missiles, able to reach a us territory more easily than ever before. following up with you, you said you would not meet with kim jong—un on without preconditions. are there conditions where you would meet

with him? on the condition he would agree that he would draw down his nuclear capacity, the korean peninsula should be a nuclear free zone. let's move on to american families. very quickly, ten seconds. they try to meet with him and he wouldn't do it. he didn't like barack obama. he wouldn't do it. i will let you respond before we move on. it's ok, north korea, we are not in a war, we have a good relationship, and people don't understand. president trump, we have to move on and we have a lot of questions to get through. we had a good relationship with hitler before he in fact invaded europe. come on. the reason he would not meet with president obama is because he said we will talk about denuclearisation and not legitimise you and you will continue to push stronger sanctions on you. that is why he would not meet with us. and it didn't happen. excuse me. he left me a mess. they left me a

mess. north korea was a mess. we need to move on. if you remember the first two or three questions, there was a dangerous period in my first three months before we worked it out a little bit, and they left us a mess and barack obama would, i think, left us a mess and barack obama would, ithink, be left us a mess and barack obama would, i think, be the first assay was the single biggest problem that he thought our country faced. let's move to american families on economy and one of the most important issues as health care, as you both know. today there was a key vote on a new supreme court justice and health care is at the centre of her confirmation with over 20 million americans getting their health insurance through the affordable hair —— ca re through the affordable hair —— care act, heading to the supreme court and you are advocating for the court to overturn it and if the supreme court overturned that law, there are 20 million americans who could lose their health insurance overnight, so what would you do if those people had their health insurance taken away. two minutes,

uninterrupted. i've already done something nobody thought was possible. through the legislature, i terminated the individual mandate. it is the worst pa rt individual mandate. it is the worst part of obamacare, as we call it. the individual mandate where you pay a fortune for the privilege of not having to play for bad health insurance, i terminated it. it is done. now it is in court because obamacare is no good but then i made a decision, run it as well as you can, by great people, andi as you can, by great people, and i could have gone the other route and made everybody unhappy. they ran it, the premiums are down and everything is down. here's the problem. no matter how well you're running, it's no good and what we would like to do is terminate it. we want to do it and have the individual mandate run and if we have to do it, it will be obamacare, and we will do it, but it's no longer obamacare do it, but it's no longer obamaca re because without do it, but it's no longer obamacare because without the end of mandated much different. pre—existing conditions will a lwa ys pre—existing conditions will

always stay. what i would like is much better health care but we will always protect people with pre—existing, so i'd like to terminate obamaca re with pre—existing, so i'd like to terminate obamacare and come up to terminate obamacare and come up with a beautiful health care and the democrats will do it because there will be tremendous pressure on them and we might even have the house by that time and i think we are going to win the house, you will see, but we will win the house. come up with a better health care and always protect people with pre—existing conditions and one thing is very important. we have 180 million people out there that have great private health care. far more than obamacare. joe biden is going to terminate all of those policies. these are people that love their health care. people that have been successful, middle—income people and they have 180 million plans, 180 million people, families, and under what he wants to do which would basically be socialised medicine and you won't even have a choice, they would terminate 180 million plans. we've done an incredible job terminate 180 million plans. we've done an incrediblejob in

health care and we will do even better. ok, vice president biden. your health care plan calls for building on obamacare, so my question is, what is your plan if the wall is called constitutional by the supreme court? —— the rule.” will pass obamacare with a public option. the public option is an option that if you in fact do not have the wherewithal, if you qualify for medicaid and you don't have the wherewithal, then you are automatically enrolled providing competition for insurance companies. that is what will happen and secondly we will reduce the premiums and drug prices by making sure that competition that doesn't exist now by allowing medicaid to negotiate drug prices with the insurance companies. thirdly, the idea that i want to eliminate private insurance, and the reason i had such a

fight with 20 candidates for the nomination was that i support private insurance. that is why not one single person with private insurance would lose their insurance under my plan, nordid lose their insurance under my plan, nor did they under obamacare. plan, nor did they under obamaca re. they plan, nor did they under obamacare. they did not lose their insurance, unless they chose they wanted to go to something else. lastly, we will make sure we are in a situation where we protect pre—existing conditions. there is no way he can protect pre—existing conditions. zero. you cannot do in the ether. he's been talking about this for a long time. he has never come up with a plan. i guess we will get the pre—existing condition plan the same time we get the infrastructure plan that we have been waiting for since 2017, 2018. i've got a few more minutes, i know you are getting anxious. he's already cost the american people because of his dreadful handling of the covid on the economic spill—over and 10 million people have lost their private insurance and he

wants to take away 22 million more people under obamacare and over 110 million people with pre—existing conditions and all of the people from covid will have pre—existing conditions, so what will they do? a follow—up for you relating to something president trump said, accusing you of wanting socialised medicine. what do you say to people who have concerns that your health care plan that includes a government health care option takes them one step closer to a health ca re system one step closer to a health care system run by the government? i say it ridiculous. the idea that there isa ridiculous. the idea that there is a public option and people can choose, that makes it a socialist plan? the different between me and the president, i don't think health care is a privilege, it a right and everyone should have the right to have affordable health care andl to have affordable health care and i am proud of my plan and it has been endorsed by all the major labour unions as well as the whole range of other people who are concerned in the medical field. this is something that will save peoples lives and will give

some people an opportunity to have health care for their children. how many of you are at home, rolling around in bed, wondering what to do if you get sick because you have lost your your health insurance and your company has gone under? we have to provide health insurance for people at an affordable rate, and that is what i do. he was there for 47 years and didn't do it. he was there as vice president for eight years and it was not like it was 25 years ago, it was three years and three quarters, just a little while ago, less than four yea rs. while ago, less than four years. he didn't do anything. he didn't do it. he wants socialised medicine, and it's not that he wanted it as vice president. the chinese president. the chinese president is more liberal than bernie sanders and once it even more. the democrats want it. you are going to have socialised medicine, just like with fracking. we are not going to have fracking, we will stop racking and then he goes to pennsylvania after the nomination and he goes there

and we will have fracking. and you never ask that question. anyway, so far, i respect the way you are handling this. but somebody should ask the question. he goes for a year. we have a number of topics we wa nt to we have a number of topics we want to get up to and we will get to that. it's the same thing with socialised medicine. my response is that people deserve to have affordable health care, period, period, period. and the biden care proposal will provide for affordable health care, lower premiums and it will cost some money, over $750 billion over ten years to do it and we will have lower premiums and you can buy better plans, cheaper plans, lower your premiums, deal with unexpected billing and have your drug prices drop significantly. he keeps talking about it but he hasn't done a thing for anybody on health care. not a thing. very quickly. when he says public

options, he talks about socialised medicine and when he talks about a public option, he is talking about destroying your medicare and destroying your medicare and destroying your social security and this whole country will come down. bernie sanders tried it in his state and his governor was a very liberal governor and wa nted very liberal governor and wanted to make it work. let's hear what vice president biden has to say. he thinks he's running against somebody else. he's running against joe running against somebody else. he's running againstjoe biden. i beat all of those other people because i disagreed with them. joe biden is who he is running against on the idea that we are in a situation that we would destroy medicare, this is the guy where it was said about social security, if he continues to withhold the plan to withhold the tax on social security, that will be bankrupt by 2023 with no way to make up for it. this is a guy who has tried to cut medicare. the idea

that donald trump is lecturing me on social security and medicare. come on. ten seconds. he tried to hurt social security years ago. go back and look at the records. he tried to hurt social security years ago. let's move on. mr president, i have to move on to the next question or we won't have time to talk about. if he is elected, the stock market will crash. let's move onto the next question. the idea that the stock market is booming is the stock market is booming is the only measure of what is happening, where i come from, people don't live off the stock market. just in the last three years during this crisis, the billionaires in this country made according to wall street, 700 billion more dollars because that's his only measure. what happens to the ordinary people out there? what

happens to them? 401(k) are through the roof, stock is through the roof, stock is through the roof and he doesn't come from scranton. he lived there for a fraught period of time. and the people of pennsylvania will tell you that. they understand. as of tonight more than 12 million people out of work and as of 29 8 million more americans have fallen into poverty are more families are going hungry every day. those hit hardest are women and people of colour and they see washington fighting over a relief bill. mr president, why have you not been able to get them the help they need? because nancy pelosi doesn't want to approve it.” do. you are the president.” am, and that's one of the reasons we will take over the house because of her. nancy pelosi doesn't want to approve anything because she would love to have some victories on a date: november three, nancy blows he does not want to approve it. we are ready, willing and able to do

something. don't forget we have already approved three plans, including the democrats, but this one she doesn't want, because it helps her politically but i think it hurt so politically. mr vice president? the republican leader in the senate said he cannot pass it and does not have republican votes. why isn't he talking to his republican friends? let me follow—up, you are the leader of the democratic party, so why have you not pushed the democrats to get a deal for the american people? they passed this act in the beginning of the summer. it's not new. it's been out there. this heroes act has been sitting there, and look what is happening. the re cove ry look what is happening. the re cove ry a ct look what is happening. the recovery act with $800 billion, i was able to get $145 billion for local communities that had to balance the budget and then

have to fire firefighters, teachers, first responders, law enforcement officers so they can keep their cities and counties running. he will not support that. they have not done nothing for them and mitch mcconnell said let it go bankrupt. come on. what is the matter with these guys? the bill passed in the house was a bailout of badly run, high crime, democrat, or run by democrats, cities and states. it was a way of getting a lot of money, billions and billions of money, billions and billions of dollars to the states. it was also a way of getting a lot of money from our people's pockets to people who come into our country illegally. we were going to take care of everything for them and what thatis everything for them and what that is does, and i'd love to do it, love to help them, but everybody all over the world will pour into the country and we cannot do it. this was a way of taking care of them. this was a way of spending on things that had nothing to do with covid, but it was a big bailout for badly run democrat cities and states. when i get elected

i will run as a proud democrat but i will be an american president and i don't see red states and blue states, i america, united states, and every single state out there find themselves in trouble and they will start laying off whether they are red or blue, cops, firefighters, first responders, teachers, because they have to balance the budget and the founders were smart, they allow the federal government to compensate for the united states of america.” wa nt to the united states of america.” want to talk about the minimum wage. mr vice president, we are talking about struggling small businesses and business owners these days, so do you think this is a time to raise the minimum wage? use a board of $15 minimum wage. i do and i think we are going to have to bail them out. we should be bailing them out now. though small businesses. you have one in six going under. they are not going to be able to make it backin

not going to be able to make it back in may —— and they allowed us to get ppe and give everything from organised housing and how they can deal with businesses being open safely. schools, how they can make classroom smaller and hire more teachers and put ventilation systems in. they need the help. businesses as well as the schools need the help. but these guys will not help. but these guys will not help. he's not giving them any of the money. we are going to move on. he said we have to help small businesses, by raising the minimum wage? that's not helping. i think it should be a state option. alabama is different to new york and new york is different from vermont. every state is different. you said recently... it's very important because we have to help our small businesses, and how are you helping them if you are forcing wages up, and what is proven to happen is when you do that the small businesses fire many of the employees. not true. you said you would consider raising it to $15. you said recently

you would consider raising it to $15. i would consider it to an extent. but not to a level that is going to put all these businesses out of business. it should be a state option. i know different places. they are all different. in some places $15 is not so bad. in other places, other states, $15... twojobs, one job. people places, other states, $15... twojobs, onejob. people are making six, seven, eight bucks an hour. these first responders be clap for as they come down the street because they have allowed us to make it. what is happening? they deserved a minimum wage of $15. anything below that puts you below the poverty level and there is no evidence that when you raise the minimum wage businesses go out of business. that is simply

not true. we are going to talk about now, gentlemen. and about families within this context. your administration separated children from their parents. you have since reversed you a zero tolerance policy but the united states cannot locate the pa rents of united states cannot locate the parents of more than 500 children so how all these families ever be reunited? children are brought here by coyotes a nd children are brought here by coyotes and lots of bad people. cartels. and they are brought here and are used to use them to get into our country and we now have a strong new border as we have ever had. we have over 400 miles a brand—new wall. they have to come illegally. they have to come illegally. they built cages, you know. and then they had a picture and set a newspaper and it was a picture of these horrible cages and they said president trump built them. and it was determined they were built that

was him. do you have a plan to reunite the kids? we are trying very ha rd reunite the kids? we are trying very hard but a lot of kids come over to cartels and coyotes a nd come over to cartels and coyotes and gangs. let me bring you into this. these kids came with parents. they separated them at the board to make it a disincentive to come to begin with. we are tough, really strong. and guess what? it is not coyotes who brought them over. their parents were with them. they got separated from their parents and it makes us a laughing stock and violates every notion of who we are as a nation. let me ask you? we did it. they did it. we change the policy. they built the cages. who built the cages, joe? who built the cages, joe? what happened? kids were ripped from

parents arms and separated. and now they cannot find over 500 sets of those parents and those kids are alone with no where to nowhere to go. it is criminal. it is criminal. they went down. there are so well taken care of. they are in facilities that are so clean. just one question. who built the cages? i would love you to ask him that. he built the cages? let me ask about your immigration policy. the obama administration did not deliver an immigration reform and presided over a record family detention is at of their changing, so why should voters trust you now? we made a mistake. it took too long to get it right. i will be president of the united states not vice president. i have been very clear. within 100 days i

am going to send the united states congress a pathway to citizenship for over 11 million undocumented people and all of those who were called dreamers, those who were called dreamers, those kids. they are immediately certified again to be able to stay in this country and put on a path to citizenship. the idea that they are being sent home by this guy and they want to do that is that they are going to a country they have never seen before. i can imagine you are five years old and your parents are taking you across the river and it is illegal. and you say, oh, no, ma'am. i and it is illegal. and you say, oh, no, ma'am. lam not going to go with you. over 20,000 of them are first responders out there taking care of people during this crisis. we owe them. we owe them. he had eight yea rs them. we owe them. he had eight years to do what he said he was going to do. and without having a specific, we got out of catch and release and a lot of horrible things that they put

in but he had eight years as vice president and he did nothing except build cages to keep children in. the catch and release. you know what talking about there? you had family, and they came across we re arrested. had family, and they came across were arrested. they in fa ct we re across were arrested. they in fact were given a date to show up fact were given a date to show up fortheir hearing. fact were given a date to show up for their hearing. they were released. and guess what? they showed up for the hearing. this is the vice president in the history of the united states of america that says anyone seeking asylum has to do it in another country. that has never happened before in america. that is never happened before in america. you come to the united states and you make your case. i seek asylum based on the following premise. i i deserve that under american law. they are in score there on the other side of the river. it just shows that he has no understanding of immigration laws. catch and release is a

disaster. a murderer would come in. a rapist would come in. a very bad person would come in. we would take their name. we have to release them into our country and then you say they come back? less than 1% of the people come back. not true. we have to send border patrol out to find them. if they come back in two years, three years. we'll give you a court case. we will give you a court case. and you said they came back. they don't come back, joe. they never come back. only the really, i hate to say this, but those with the lowest iq. they might come back. let's give vice president biden a chance to respond. you don't know the law, joe. know the law? what are you telling you are simply not true. check it out. check it out. they terminated it so we don't have to worry about it. there are 525 kids who don't know where they are going

to be and have lost their parents. let's talk about race in america. and i want to talk about the way that black and brown americans experience race in this country. part of that experience is something called the talk. it happens regardless of class and income, parents who feel they have no choice but to prepare children for the chance they could be targeted by the police for no reason other than the colour of their skin. in the next two minutes, i want you to speak directly to these families. do you understand why these parents fear for their children? i understand why these parents fearfortheir children? i do, i do. my daughter is a social worker and she has written a lot about this. she did her graduate degree from the university of pennsylvania. one of the reasons why i ended up working on the east side of delaware which is 90% african—american. it was to learn more about what was going

on. i never had to tell my daughter, if she is pulled over, make sure she puts both hands on top of the wheel and don't reach for the glove box because someone may shoot you. but a black parent, no matter how wealthy or poor there are, has to teach the child, don't have a hoodie on when you go across the street. making sure that you in fact, if you get pulled over, say yes, sir. no, sir. and on top of the field. because you are in fact the victim whether you are a person making 300,000 a year or someone who is on food stamps. the fact of the matter is there is institutional racism in america. we have never lived up to it. we hold these truths to be self—evident. all men and women are created equal. guess what? we have never ever lived up what? we have never ever lived up to it. we have constantly been moving the needle further and further to inclusion, not exclusion. this is the first president to come along who

says that at the end of that. we are not going to do that any more. we have to provide for economic opportunity was a better education, better health care, better access to schooling. better access to opportunity to borrow money and start businesses. all the things we can do and i have laid out a clear plan as to how to do those things. just to give people a shot. it is about accumulating the ability to have as it is to be free from violence. president trump same question to you and let me remind you of the question. i would like you to speak directly to these families. do you understand by these p pa rents fear for you understand by these p parents fearfor their children? he never did a thing exceptin children? he never did a thing except in 1994 when he did such harm to the black community. and he called them super predators and he said that. super predators. and they could never live that down. 1994. the

crime bill. the super predators. nobody has done more for the black community than donald trump. and if you look, with the exception of abraham lincoln, possible exception. the exception of abraham at lincoln. nobody has done what i have done. criminaljustice reform, obama and joe did not do it. i don't even think they tried, but that they had no chance doing it. they might have wa nted chance doing it. they might have wanted to do it but if you had to see the arms i had to twist to get that done, it was not a pretty picture and everybody knows it including some very everybody knows it including some very liberal people that cried in my office. they cried in the oval office. two weeks later they are saying, gee, we have to defeat him. criminal justice reform, prison reform, opportunities with tim scott, great senator from carolina came in with this idea of opportunity zones. one of the most successful programmes. people don't talk about it. tremendous investment, it has

been the biggest beneficiary to black and hispanic communities. and historically black colleges and universities. after three yea rs of and universities. after three years of coming to the office, i love some of those guys, they we re i love some of those guys, they were great. they came into the office and they said, i said, why do you keep coming back? we don't have funding. i said, you don't have funding. i said, you don't have funding. i said, you don't have to come back every year. president obama will never give them long—term funding andi never give them long—term funding and i did. ten year long—term funding and i gave them more money than they asked for because i said, i think you need more. and the only bad pa rt need more. and the only bad part about this as i may never see you again because i got very friendly with them and they like me and i like them. we are going to talk about both of your record but your response to that. my response to that is i never, ever said what he accused me of same. the fa ct of what he accused me of same. the fact of the matter is in 2000, after the crime bill had been in the law for a while this is a guy who said that the problem

with the crime bill is that there are not enough people in jail. there are not enough people injail. go on my website and get the date and the quote when he said. he talked about marauding gangs. young gangs and people who are going to marauder our cities. this is a who in the centre park five, he continued to push for them getting the death penalty. none of them are guilty of the crimes they were suggested. granted, he commuter 20 people sentences. we commuted thousands. the is the law that in fact was initiated by barack obama. we are in a situation here with a federal prison system was reduced by 38,000 people under our administration and one of the things we should be doing, there should be no minimum mandatory is in the law. that

is why i am offering $20 billion to states to change their state laws to eliminate minimum mandatory sunset up drug courts. never to be going to jail because they have a drug problem. they should be going to rehabilitation, not to jail. we should fundamentally change the system and that is what i am going to do. why did he not do it four years ago? why did you not do that four yea rs why did you not do that four years ago? he were vice president. you keep talking about all these things you are going to do and you will do this. but you were just a short time ago and you guys did nothing. i ran because of you. iran nothing. i ran because of you. i ran because of barack obama because you did a poorjob. by producing a good job i would have never run. i would have never run. i ran have never run. i would have never run. i ran because have never run. i would have never run. i ran because of you. iam never run. i ran because of you. i am looking at you now and you are a politician and i ran because of you. your response to that and then i do have questions for both of you. i hope it does look at me because what is happening here. you know who i am and you know who he is. you know his

character and you know my character. in our reputations for honour and telling the truth. i am anxious to have this race. i am anxious to see this race. i am anxious to see this take place. the character of the country is on the ballot. look at us closely. if this is true about russia, ukraine, china, other countries, iraq. if this is true he is a corrupt politician so don't give me the stuff about how you are this innocent baby. joe, they are calling you a corrupt politician. nobody is calling me that. we are talking about the issue of bass. president trump, we are talking about race right now and i do wa nt to about race right now and i do want to stay on the issue of race. look, there are 50 former national intelligence folks who said that what he is accusing me of isa said that what he is accusing me of is a russian plant. they have said that this has all the... by former heads of the cia, both parties say what he

is saying is a bunch of garbage. nobody believes that except him and his good friend rudy giuliani. this is now another russia russia russia hopes? the laptop is russia? you have to be kidding. here we go again with fashion. we will continue on the issue of race. you have described the black slaves matter movement has a symbol of hate. you've shared a video a man chanting white power to millions of your supporters. —— black lives matter. what would you say to americans who say that language contributes to racial strife? the first time i heard of black lives matter, they were talking about pigs in a blanket, talking about our police. try them like bacon. i said, that isa them like bacon. i said, that

is a horrible thing. and they we re is a horrible thing. and they were marching down the street. and that was my first glimpse of black lives matter. i thought it was a terrible thing. as faras thought it was a terrible thing. as far as my relationships with all people, i think relationships with all people, ithinki relationships with all people, i think i have great relationships with all people. iam the relationships with all people. i am the least racist person in this room. what say to americans concerned by that rhetoric? i don't know what to say. i got criminal justice reform done on prison reform, i took care of black colleges and universities. i don't know what to say. they can say anything. i mean, they can say anything. i mean, they can say anything. it makes me sad because i am, i am the least racist person. i can't even see the audience because it is so dark but i don't care who is in the audience.” it is so dark but i don't care who is in the audience. i am the least racist person in this room. vice president biden, let me ask you very quickly and then have a follow—up question. abraham then have a follow—up question. abra ham lincoln then have a follow—up question. abraham lincoln here is one of the most racist presidents we have had in recent history. he

pours fewer than every racist buyer. every single one was to be started off his campaign saying he was going to get rid of those mexican rapists. he has banned muslims because they are muslims. he's moved around and made everything worse across the border. he says about the poor boys. last time we we re about the poor boys. last time we were on stage he said i'd told them to stand down and stand ready. come on. this guy has a dog whistle about as big asa has a dog whistle about as big as a fog horn. he made a reference to abraham lincoln. where did that come in? you said you were abraham lincoln. no, no. isaid not since abraham lincoln has anybody done what i have done for the black community. i did not say i am abraham lincoln i said not since abraham lincoln has anybody done what i had done for the black community. you have done nothing other than the crime bill. 0h, than the crime bill. oh, god. it put tens of thousands of

black men mostly injail. not true. not true. if you look at what is happening with the voting right now, they were treated very very badly. let me give you a chance to respond within this context. this crime bill you supported in the 80s and 90s contributed to the incarceration of tens of thousands of young black men who had small amounts of drugs in their possession. they are sons, they are brothers, they are fathers, they are uncles whose families are still to this day, suffering the consequences. so speak to those families. why should for you? in the 80s we passed 100%, or 100 senators voted for a bill on drugs and how to deal with drugs. it was a mistake. i have been trying to change it since and particularly the d portion on cocaine and i have been arguing that we should not send anyone to jail for a pure drug offe nce. to jail for a pure drug offence. they should be going into treatment across the

board. that is what we should be spending money on. that is why i set up drug courts which we re never why i set up drug courts which were never funded by other republican friend. they should not be going to jail for a drug or alcohol problem. they should be going into treatment. treatment. that is what we have been trying to do and that is what i am going to get done because the american people have now seen that in fact it was a mistake to pass those laws relating to drugs but they we re laws relating to drugs but they were not in the crime bill. why didn't he get it done? it is all talk no action with politicians. why did they get it done? that is what i will do when i become president for wr vice president along with obama as your president, your leader, for eight years. why did you not get it done for the good eight years to get it done and now you say you will get it done because you are all talk and action, joe. we got a lot of it done. we released 38,000 prisoners. 38,000 prisoners we re prisoners. 38,000 prisoners were released from federal prison. there were over 1000 people who were given clemency.

we are the ones who put in the legislation saying we can look at pattern and practice of police departments and what they were doing and how they we re they were doing and how they were conducting themselves. i could go on but we began the process, we began the process. we lost an election. that is why i am running to win back that election and change his terrible publicity. why didn't you do it in the eight years, a short time ago? you said i would do this, i will do that. you put tens of thousands of mostly black young men in prison. no usa and you are going to undo that? why did you not to get it done? you had yea rs not to get it done? you had years with obama. you are all talk and no action. we had a republican congress. that's the answer. you have got to talk them into it, joe. sometimes you have got to talk it in to it. i had to talk

democrats into it. we are running out of time so we have got to get under climate change, please. you both are very different visions on climate change. president trump you say that environmental regulations have had jobs in the energy sector and vice president biden you had said uc addressing climate change is an opportunity to create new jobs. for each change is an opportunity to create newjobs. for each of you how would you both combat climate change and job growth at the same time, starting with the president trump. we had the trillion trees programme in so many different programmes. i do love the environment but what i wa nt love the environment but what i want is the cleanest crystal clear water, the cleanest air. we have the best, lowest number in carbon emissions, which is a big standard and i notice obama goes with it all the time. i've never heard joe use the term because i'm not sure he knows what it means but i have heard obama use it. we have the best carbon emission numbers that we

have hired in 35 years under this administration. we are working so well. use what we can do. look at china. how filthy it russia. look at india. it is filthy. the air is filthy. the paris accord. i took us out because we were going to have to spend trillions of dollars and we we re trillions of dollars and we were treated very unfairly. and they put us in that they did is a great disservice. they will ta ke a great disservice. they will take away our businesses. i will not sacrifice tens of millions ofjobs. will not sacrifice tens of millions of jobs. thousands will not sacrifice tens of millions ofjobs. thousands and thousands of companies because of the paris accord. it was so unfair. china does not kick in until 2030. russia goes back to a low standard and we kicked him right away. it would have destroyed our businesses. so be ready. we have done an incredible job environmentally. we have the cleanest air, the clea nest water we have the cleanest air, the cleanest water and the best

carbon emission standards that we have seen in many, many yea rs. we have seen in many, many years. and we have destroyed our industries. two minutes to you interrupted. climate change, climate warming, global warming is an existential threat to humanity. we have a moral obligation to deal with it. and we are told by leading scientists in the world that we do not have much time. you are past the point of no return within the next 8—10 years. for more years of this man eliminating or the regulations that were put in by us to clean up that were put in by us to clean up the climate, to clean up emissions will put us in a position where we are going to be in real trouble. position where we are going to be in realtrouble. here is where we have a great opportunity. i was able to get all the environmental organisations as well as labour, people worried about jobs, to support my climate plan. because what it does, it will create millions of new

good paying jobs. we will invest in, for example, 500,000, excuse me, 50,000 charging stations on our highways so that we can own the electric car market of the future. china is doing that. we will be in a position where we are going to see to it that we are going to see to it that we are going to take 4 million existing billions and 2 million existing billions and 2 million existing homes and retrofit them so they don't look as much energy, saving hundreds of millions of barrels of oil in the process and creates a significant number of jobs and by the way, the whole idea of what this is going to do, it is going to create millions of jobs and it is going to clean the environment, our health and jobs are at stake. that is what is and right now i wall street firms indicating that my plan, my plan will in fact create 18.6 millionjobs. 7 million more than his. this is from wall street. and will create $1 trillion more on economic

growth and his proposal does. not on climate, just on the economy. he came out and said very strongly $6,500 will be taken away from families under his plan. that his plan is an economic disaster. if you look at what he wants to do, if you look at his... you know who developed it? aoc plus three. she knows nothing about that climate. and they are all hopping through hoops for aoc plus three. the real plan cost $100 trillion. we had the best yearin $100 trillion. we had the best year in the history of our country for 100 years we would not even come close to a number like that. what he says buildings, they want to take buildings, they want to take buildings down because they wa nt to buildings down because they want to make bigger windows into smaller windows. as far as they are concerned if you are no window it would be a lovely thing. this is the craziest plan that anyone has ever seen. and this was not done by smart

people. this was not done by anybody, frankly, i don't even know how it could be good politically. they want to spend $100 trillion. that is the real number. he is trying to say it was six. $100 trillion. they wa nt to was six. $100 trillion. they want to knock down buildings and build buildings will visit tiny small windows. and many other things. we are running out of time and we have a lot more questions so let's hear from the vice president. i don't know where he comes i don't know where he comes up with these numbers. $100 trillion? give me a break! this plan is endorsed by every major environmental group and every labour group. labour. because they know the future lies in us being able to breathe and they know that there are job is getting us there. and by the way, the fastest growing industry in america is the

electric, excuse me, the solar energy and when. he thinks wind causes cancer. wind mills. it is the fastest growing jobs and they pay good prevailing wages. 45, 50 bucks an hour. we can grow and we be cleaner if we go the route i am proposing. we are energy independent of the first time. we don't need all of these countries that we had to fight a war over because we needed their energy. we are energy independent. i know more about wind than you do. it is extremely expensive and kills all the it is very intermittent and has a lot of problems and they make windmills in germany and china and the fumes coming up. ifa and china and the fumes coming up. if a believer in carbon emission, the fumes coming up to make these massive windmills is more than anything that we are talking about with natural gas which is very clean. find mea gas which is very clean. find me a scientist who says that. so that is not powerful enough

yet to really run our big beautiful factories that we need to compete with the world. false. it is all a pipe dream but we will have the greatest economy in the world but if you wa nt to economy in the world but if you want to kill the economy get rid of your oil industry. and what about fracking ? rid of your oil industry. and what about fracking? i have never said i oppose fracking. you said it on tape. show the tape. put it on the website. the fact of the matter is he is flat lying. i rule out banning fracking because we need other industries to transition to get toa industries to transition to get to a complete zero emissions by 2025. what i would do, with fracking over time, is make sure we can capture the emissions from the fracking, capture the emissions from gas, we can do that and we can do that by investing money but it isa that by investing money but it is a transition to that. i have

one more question in this part. he was against fracking and he said it. iwill show he was against fracking and he said it. i will show the tape tomorrow. i am against fracking. into the got the nomination went to pennsylvania and then he said, you know what, pennsylvania, he will be against it very soon. fracking on federal land, i said. not on federal land. federal land. i , oil plans and people are worried our making them sick. you have rolled back on regulations on these facilities, so why should you expect these families to give you another four years in office. the families we are talking about are employed heavily and making more money than they've ever made. if we look at the numbers with hispanic or black or asian people, it's nine times greater the percentage game —— gain thanit

the percentage game —— gain than it was in three years than it was under eight years under the two of them, to put it nicely. nine times more. now, somebody lives, and i have not had the numbers or statistics you are saying, but they are making a tremendous amount of money. economically, we saved it and money. economically, we saved itandi money. economically, we saved it and i saved it again a number of months ago when oil was crushing because of the pandemic. we saved it. we got saudi arabia, mexico and russia to cut back, way back and save the oil industry and now it's a very vibrant again. and everybody has very inexpensive gasoline. your response, president by the. my response is that those people live on fence lines and he didn't understand this. they live near chemical plants that pollute, and oil plants and refineries that pollute. i used to live near that when i was glowing up in delaware and the oil

refineries on the delaware river, there is more refineries there than in houston at the time and when my mum went to turn on the car there was an oil slick in the window and thatis oil slick in the window and that is why so many people in my state were dying and getting cancer. the fact is, it doesn't matter what you are paying the front lines communities, you keep them safe. what do you do? you impose restriction on pollutants, for the pollutants coming out of the fence line communities. would you close down the oil industry? we have a transition from the oil industry, yes. a transition. that is a big statement. why would you do that? the oil industry pollute significantly. here is the deal. if you let me finish the statement, it has to be replaced by renewable energy overtime, overtime, and i would stop giving to the oil industry and stop giving them federal subsidies. you won't get federal substances to gas,

excuse me, to solar, and then why are we giving it to the oil industry? we do give it to solar and wind. industry? we do give it to solarand wind. a industry? we do give it to solar and wind. a big statement in terms of business, that's the big statement because what he's saying is he will destroy the oil industry. will you remember that, texas? remember that, pennsylvania, oklahoma ? let me give you ten seconds to respond stop he takes everything out of context. the point is. we have to move towards net zero emissions and the first place to do this by 2035 is reducing this by 2050 totally. is he going to get china to do it? one final question. we will rejoin the paris accord and make china abide by what they agreed to. we are talking about leadership in this first question does go to you, president trump. imagine this is your inauguration day. what will you

say in your address to americans who did not vote for you? you americans who did not vote for you ? you each americans who did not vote for you? you each have one minute. we have to make our country totally successful, as it was prior to the plague coming in from china. now we are rebuilding and doing record numbers, 11 million jobs rebuilding and doing record numbers, 11 millionjobs in a short period of time but go back, before the plague came in, iwas back, before the plague came in, i was getting calls from people that were not normally people that were not normally people that were not normally people that would call me. they wa nted people that would call me. they wanted to get together. we had the best black unemployment numbers in the history of the country, hispanic, women, asian, people with diplomas, with no diplomas, mit graduates, number one in the class, everybody had the best numbers, and you know what, the other side wanted to get together and unify. success is going to bring us together. we are on the road to success, but iam are on the road to success, but i am cutting taxes and he wants to raise everybody's taxis and put new regulations on everything. he will kill it. if

he gets in, you will have a depression the likes of which you have never seen. your 401(k) will go to hell and it will be a sad day for this country. vice president biden? same question, what will you say during your inaugural address to americans who did not vote for you. i will say, i'm an american president and i represent all of you, whether you voted for me or against me andl you voted for me or against me and i will make sure that you are represented. iwill give you hope. we are going to move, choose hope over fear, choose to move forward because we have enormous opportunities, enormous opportunities, enormous opportunities, enormous opportunities to make things better. we can grow this economy, we can deal with the systemic racism and at the same time, we can make sure that our economy is being run and moved and motivated by clean energy, creating millions of newjobs. and that's the fact. that's what we're going to do and i'm going to say, as i said at the beginning, what is on the ballot he re

beginning, what is on the ballot here is the character of this country. decency, honour, respect, treating people with dignity, making sure that everybody has an even chance andl everybody has an even chance and i will make sure you get that. you haven't been getting at the last four years. i want to thank you both for a very robust hour and a half. a fantastic debate. really appreciated. president trump, former price —— vice president, joe biden. and thank you for hosting us tonight and most importantly, thanks to those watching tonight. election day is november the 3rd. don't forget to vote. thank you, everyone, and have great night. thank you. nbc news wrapping up the debate betweenjoe biden and donald trump and guess what, it really was a debate. a presidential style debate. for a moment i thought i was back in american politics as it used to be but now we have melania trump, wearing the mask, and it

is traditionalfor the trump, wearing the mask, and it is traditional for the spouses to come on stage and meet their husbands. donald trump, who definitely behave much more calmly and spoke a lot more about policies and interrupted less tha n about policies and interrupted less than he did in the first debate and there isjill biden embracing her husband on stage asjoe biden embracing her husband on stage as joe biden has embracing her husband on stage asjoe biden has put his mask back on and walked onto the stage with his mask on and he has now put his mask back on, andi has now put his mask back on, and i think that's the first time i've seen melania trump for any extended period of time wearing a mask in public. the couple is leaving the stage now, so christian, totally different debate from the one we had in cleveland, the first one. i have been writing and scribbling. about policies, things to talk to our guests about, which is a completely different affair to the first debate and much more polite. whether we learned anything particularly new about the two candidates, it was certainly a study in body language. i don't

know if donald trump had remembered to speak softly on the back of his hand, and joe biden remember to roll your eyes and looked to the skies when donald trump is speaking on the back of his. it was very different affair but more cordial. by the way, very good job by the moderator. that is the indisputable fact of the night that she did such a good job cutting in. there wasn't as much use of the mute button. they did have the two minutes with the mute button but maybe they didn't need it because they didn't need it because they kept quiet and listened to each other during the two minutes of initial statements but the combination, like a parent, i will threaten you with the mute button, may be the combination of the button on the moderator made for a far more substantial debate about. yes. what did you make of the personal attacks? there was a lot of that in the first 20 minutes of the debate.” lot of that in the first 20 minutes of the debate. i think it was sort of disappointing

that this is the only section we have had on foreign policy, ona we have had on foreign policy, on a public format during the whole of the campaign between the two men because there wasn't any in the first debate, then we had the second debate cancelled and that section on national security, more than half of it got taken over by donald trump's taxis and allegations againstjoe biden's son, and i'm not sure, for me, that both of those are quite confusing and i'm not sure that was a section that will perhaps move much of the audience either way. democrats will feel donald trump's taxis are an issue, and republicans will thinkjoe biden's son is an issue, so i don't think we got much light on the positions and with the world in such disarray in so many issues to talk about around the world that there wasn't more on foreign policy or national security during that section. laura is outside the hall for us and has been

watching the whole thing. i spoke to you after cleveland andi spoke to you after cleveland and i think both of us had our jaws on the floor and we need a large glass of wine and perhaps we can stick with the water after this one for a bit. this was more substantive, wasn't it? and it's interesting that the donald trump campaign people were telling me that there would be personal tax on joe biden and that the president would outline his vision for a second term, but you got the personal attacks but in terms of the second term the president said he would rebuild the economy back to where it was again but was a little short on specifics and on the specifics, joe biden tried to nail him and they had substantive exchanges on health ca re substantive exchanges on health care and joe biden talked about what he called something building on obamacare and he committed to a minimum wage of $15 and said send a bill to congress for the 11 million

undocumented immigrants, so a lot of specifics from biden but not so many from the president but heavy on the personal attacks, but the stuff about hunter biden, that wasn't 100% clear, talking about a laptop and russia and you probably wouldn't be able to follow it, but the implication is the president trying to say that joe stuff and —— joe biden and his family are corrupt. mcrae yellow joe his family are corrupt. mcrae yellowjoe biden his family are corrupt. mcrae yellow joe biden said his family are corrupt. mcrae yellowjoe biden said it's not about my family or your family, it's my firm —— your family. and when the economy is such in a parlous state given the pandemic, he was absolutely right and pandemic, he was absolutely rightandi pandemic, he was absolutely right and i wonder, having watched it tonight, do they ta ke watched it tonight, do they take more from that from the first debate? properly so, but did they take enough and do they know what four years of joe biden and donald trump all mean? it's a good question, and of course that's a rehearsed line that i will talk about,

the american family when he talks about my family. that was a line thatjoe biden was supposed to use going into the first debate in cleveland and didn't because his team were mentioning but he got there tonight. it is interesting. the president started off weakly on the coronavirus section and gained in confidence throughout, but on coronavirus joe biden had one of the lines of the night, and this is clearly all about what gets played over the next few days whenjoe played over the next few days when joe biden said played over the next few days whenjoe biden said he is talking about learning to live with it, but people are learning to die with it and the reality is that more than 1000 people died from coronavirus yesterday and as the moderator said, thousands have died since the two men were last on a stage together and there still wasn't a clear way out of it from president trump apart from having a vaccine where as joe biden was trying to be specific about the mask mandate and testing strategy and opening schools, so more specifics from biden and more generalities from the president about how much better he is thanjoe

biden. several times during the debate both of the men reverted to lines that they repeated that they had rehearsed, as you are suggesting under the donald trump it was why didn't you do it when you had eight years and not get it done, the application that joe not get it done, the application thatjoe biden has been around a long time and not been around a long time and not been effective and managed to do policy he wants to implement. he is just do policy he wants to implement. he isjust a regular politician and for joe implement. he isjust a regular politician and forjoe biden the line he kept using was, come on, man, you must be kidding type stuff but i wonder if that was effective from joe biden. would voters have wanted to hear rather than a repudiation, did they need more from joe biden on things like the economy, on immigration, for example, on race, what he would do on race. would people have wa nted would do on race. would people have wanted more specifics? i think it worked in the first debate when he was being interrupted, but he was using the same lines and it was a bit

less helpful and voters wanted something more substantive. ids —— i guess he did talk about the federal minimum wage of $15. it was interesting that president trump kept saying these politicians and you politicians, casting himself again as the outsider, but the difference from 2016 is that now he has a record to run on. but it was interesting how the president got more confident as it went along and his team are saying it is a win for him and the went good and certainly a lot better than the first one, but well enough to change the trajectory of the race? that is the big question, so let's get some answers from that. thank you for the moment. here is amanda renteria, former

national political director for hillary clinton in 2016 and republican strategist ron christie let me start with amanda and it's interesting in hearing from their biden campaign in the course of the debate because they seem to be saying if it was not enough for donald trump to behave better, he actually had to have a kind of sweeping win and i'm not sure thatis sweeping win and i'm not sure that is true. didn't donald trumpjust that is true. didn't donald trump just have to behave more reasonably, interrupted less, be somebody whose personality seemed a bit more amenable to most seemed a bit more amenable to m ost vote rs ? seemed a bit more amenable to most voters? he didn't need to have a clean win. he needed a change of momentum. right now what you see in america is a lot of people lining up to vote, more balance than ever before and the trend is certainly to break records and that moment is forjoe biden now, so as a candidate, trump coming into this conversation, this was a moment for him that he needed to really change the momentum happening right now, and did he do enough in this conversation? you didn't, but i don't think it is a wash for

most people who are watching. whatjoe biden wanted to do was show steadiness of leadership and actually did, he did share some policies that have gotten attention and will continue to get attention. the path to citizenship in a hundred days speaks to a lot of left—leaning voters waiting to hear what he would do on immigration and this is the first time in the debate that it actually got raised in this way and that specificity is a big sign to a hundred vote —— hundreds of voters out there in battle ground states, so that was a big piece. the second piece was public option stop the number one thing biden campaign is about health care and the talk about health care and the talk about a public option which is incredibly popular, to put that out there will be helpful in these final days and again, i don't think we saw any major movement that is going to change momentum towards donald trump in this debate though.” thought catra was right that he warmed up the president, but on

coronavirus he still quite unconvincing. there were things tonight he said that were plainly wrong. i am immune. it's going away. there are 60,000 new cases today and there were a thousand deaths yesterday. protect our seniors, the elderly, those with heart problems, the vulnerable and that was the great barrington declaration. practically setting out a herd immunity policy. it wasn't convincing to a lot of families who might have lost loved ones or who are worried or scared about how the administration will get on top of the virus. good morning, christian, i think this is one of the opportunities the president had to really assure the american people that he had a very strong and coherent policy to deal with the coronavirus crisis. yet it's very true we still have a numberof very true we still have a number of americans who are dying, a thousand, 2000 a day, as the vice president pointed out but at the same time i thought the president was effective in what he laid out and said to the vice

president,, look, and said to the vice president, , look, i and said to the vice president,, look, iwas and said to the vice president,, look, i was the one who closed the border between the us and china and you were saying i was racist and xenophobic. the vice president missed an opportunity where he could have said, if i was the president of the us, this is what i would have done differently. it's always easy, andl differently. it's always easy, and i can say this having worked for george bush for four years, it's always easier to say what you would have done had you been there and it's much harder to be in that room where it happens and the present has to make the ultimate decision and i don't think the vice president effectively hit him on an issue where i think president trump was rather vulnerable. do you think the debate tonight will change the trajectory of the race? i think this is largely a wash and you are scoring as a boxing match, both candidates landed some blows. they had some jabs, but ultimately the american people will look at

this. many millions of people have already voted and i don't think that there aren't that many undecided voters in this country, but what they both did do was assure the electorate that the president was less bellicose and a lot less combative than he was in the vice president came out and had some strong lines and performances and i think they both did what they needed to do tonight. we were talking about the attacks and the money from russia, hunter biden, the links to ukraine and to china. it sort of comes back to the pattern you get with donald trump that he needs a villain to run against. he talked about hillary clinton 340 times this year and he hasn't been running against herforfour year and he hasn't been running against her for four years, year and he hasn't been running against herforfour years, but i'm not sure he is successfully casting joe bill and as the violin —— joe biden casting joe bill and as the violin ——joe biden is the villain. macro ——.. violin ——joe biden is the villain. macro --.. people know job, and it feels like a

similar playbook to four years ago and you wonder if there is some old thing. you could see the plan was set in the story and nobody picked it up this week and now he found it as his moment in nine to try and raise the profile of what he was trying to say about corruption. it's always been incredibly difficult for him to pin anything like that onjoe biden, but particularly hard whenjoe biden, but particularly hard when joe biden came biden, but particularly hard whenjoe biden came prepared to say here is what the intelligence agencies are saying and here is what trusted americans are saying about this case, so that part didn't land ina way case, so that part didn't land in a way that i think you could tell donald trump was hoping it would. it got confusing for most folks watching, but it didn't give the needle in the way it was four years ago with the city —— consistent corrupt message you put out against hillary clinton. super confusing. we follow this every day and it was still kind of confusing to follow, so unless you are confusing to follow, so unless you a re really confusing to follow, so unless you are really following it closely it would be difficult.

the trump campaign has put out a statement saying that they felt president trump unmasked joe biden is a washington politician, all talk, no action and the president systematically dismantled by the's record and laid out the clear case that he's accomplished more in 47 months than biden has in 47 years. it was the businessman versus the career politician. clearly the trump campaign, the statement is rather long and you can pick it up yourselves, but they feel it up yourselves, but they feel it was a good night and i do feel going into this that the bar was lower for donald trump because his performance last time got such negative reviews and damaged him in the polls and damaged him in the polls and ina and damaged him in the polls and in a way, all he had to do and in a way, all he had to do and this is what i was saying, all he had to do was behave better, and that effectively makes it a win for him. mcrae --.. it does for the moment but you need more when you are that

behind and when you are wanting to build a voter base you need in your battle ground states. one of the things you saw tonight that really got under his skin was when joe biden offered up coronavirus in the battle ground states, in the midwest, and that reallyjarred president trump because of how big a deal that is when people are voting and they know that this is the moment that the trump campaign knows that it's the moment they had to push their voters out and i'm not sure it did that, but listen, it wasn't the last debate and it wasn't the last debate and it wasn't the last debate and it was better than that and in a campaign you try to get better, so it was better for him. my blood pressure is down, which is a good thing.” him. my blood pressure is down, which is a good thing. i start wondering if amanda will schedule another debate. please don't do that. i thought one of the other standout lines and they were both good on this point, donald trump said if i thought you'd done a good job,

i never would have run. and then trump responded, i ran because of you. it was that referring back, as kelly was saying, the idea that he has been there for 47 years and is a known commodity but donald trump is sowing in the mind of the voter, are you going to get anything different given that you've already had eight years of this guy in the white house? that was a very, effective response and here's why. you listen to the vice president talking about a public option for health care and how they need to lower health care costs, but yet and still it was the same vice president who said of president obama, this isa said of president obama, this is a really big deal, we have passed obamacare and it's great thing for the american people and yet still so many years on health care premiums continue to rise. so many americans have lost their coverage. yet the vice president said we have joe biden care and here is my plan. if this is what you would did

when you were a years as vice president, why should the american people believe that what un president obama has done when it's so effective when they have seen their health care has diminished rather than increased. it has gone up exponentially rather than gone down. i take your point but he did challenge him on whether he had a health care plan and had told us in the first week of august he would come up with the plan and we are 12 days from the election and we don't have one.” are 12 days from the election and we don't have one. i will be the first one to say that this should have been about closing the deal and a debate about policies and what the president would do in the next four years looking forward as opposed to looking in the rear—view mirror but i do think that was a durability of the —— vulnerability of the vice president in explaining why the plan was so good but it needs to be so drastically over and thatis to be so drastically over and that is an achilles' heel

should the vice president winner. thank you, ron. ithink the other thing that will have to be played and we might talk to be played and we might talk to it after the top of the hour is the line thatjoe biden said about transitioning away from oil. it's obviously something america is doing and there has been more focus on renewable energy and it is something that is part of an energy conservation programme, but it will be something that is replayed and president trump said it was a big deal, a big statement and a big dealfor business and clearly that will be something picked up on fox news. especially when it comes to federal subsidies. those of the sort of areas... polling has suggested that americans are moving away from wanting federal subsidies for the oil industry, so it doesn't actually poll terribly badly to say we should end federal subsidies for oil. it will do in those states. we will get

you plenty more and we have chris morris coming up. please stay with us. this weekend. so, before we get there, a lot of cloud at the moment with patches of rain working across from south—west england into the midlands, east anglia and you might see some in the south—east and then a more general area of rain is bringing wet weather to northern ireland and that is moving into scotland, western parts of england and wales,

early friday morning before pushing east and notice the rain does weaken significantly and there might be areas across the midlands that escape the band altogether and the same is true across east anglia and the south—east with perhaps patches of rain here and there to take us through the afternoon. it is an improving weather story because for most of the north—west of the uk we will see sunny weather with just a few showers, mainly confined to the west coast of scotland through friday afternoon. the wind starts to pick up as we head through friday night with areas rain beginning to spread in and that really is what is on the menu for saturday. a very gusty day with some heavy rain moving east and sunshine and showers will then follow for many of us as we head into the afternoon. here is the band of rain and notice some gusty winds to start for scotland and northern ireland but it's actually on and ahead of the weather front that the wind will get really strong for a time across wales and across england and it will be quite a short lived, squally band of

rain, so intense downpours and strong gusts, strong enough to bring down tree branches and we could see localised disruption out and about when the weather getting cooler in the north—west as sunny conditions arrive across scotland and northern ireland but with showers packed in as well. quite windy on sunday, generally a day of sunshine and showers but close to the low pressure in the north showers will be frequent and they won't just lay around coastal areas and there is a trough moving through, so the showers will blow well inland and most of us will probably see a downpour or two.

this is bbc news — welcome if you're watching here in the uk or around the globe. i'm christian fraser. the final us presidential debate ended a short time ago. donald trump and joe biden clash in the final televised debate for the us presidential elections. there were fewer interruptions this time but they clashed over each other's personal taxes and allegations about biden family business affairs. people were saying $750. i asked them a week ago and i said, what did i pay? so, you prepay tens of millions of dollars. i pre—paid my taxes. page 50 times the tax in china asa page 50 times the tax in china as a secret bank account with china, does business in china.

and in fact is