tv Dateline London BBC News November 28, 2020 11:30am-12:00pm GMT
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rules agreed — for once — between all four countries that make up the united kingdom. the sharpest reminder came from chancellor rishi sunak, boris johnson's finance minister, whose promise to level up the uk so that all regions share in its prosperity was leavened by the state of the economy. shrinking 11.3% in 2020, not recovering for a full two years. indeed five years from now, it'll be 3% smaller than had been expected. stefa nie stefanie bolzen, when you look at those figures, we are told that the british economy has not shrunk this much since the great frost of 1709, not sure how they worked that out, but there you go. the government has a lot more power now than it has in those days to ship the economy. what you make of rishi sunak‘s response? it has been very interesting to see how the chancellor, who was also supposed to be one of the possible
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su ccesso i’s supposed to be one of the possible successors of borisjohnson, and who is highly popular currently in the uk, how he is trying to breach the situation. in the one hand, protecting people, and we have a kind of new lockdown coming on in the uk on the 2nd of december, which is called the tier system. in the highest years, we are city such as manchester will soon be in, is quite stark. pubs and reference cannot open. 0n the other hand, keeping the economy going. if you look around europe, this is the dilemma you have everywhere. in germany, my country, where cases are lower, still than in the united kingdom, government is keeping the lockdown until christmas. it is even harsher than it has been before, and no restau ra nts a nd it has been before, and no restaurants and pubs, nothing is opening. there is a real big crisis all over europe in terms of covid. agnes poirier, we have on saturday during the course of the weekend,
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the shops opening up in france for the shops opening up in france for the first time. the first easing of the first time. the first easing of the restrictions. again, the financial pressures are enormous on the french government, as they are on everybody else. presumably that makes this whole question of a brexit deal between eu and the uk even more pressing. the office budget for responsibility saying that it could cost a further 2% of growth if it does not happen next year. are those fears reflected on the continent of europe also?m year. are those fears reflected on the continent of europe also? it is very interesting to watch rishi sunak in the commons this week because he hardly mentioned brexit. he said of course that a deal would bea he said of course that a deal would be a good thing, but he did not insist that ideal weighted mean —— would mean that britain's gdp shortfall, which is already at 4%,
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just quitting the single market, and thenit just quitting the single market, and then it will be made much more worse if there is no deal. you can add another 2% of gdp shortfall. all in the middle of a pandemic. it is very easy to say, and indeed not only in britain, in every country in europe, the economic impact of the economy from shrinking this year and next year because of covid. but the economic consequences of brexit are really long—term. and to think that britain, britain is going to have to deal with the consequences of covid and brexit seems to be taken lightly by the government. as we know, it is such an ideological topic that you cannot be seen, even if you are in the tory government, to be seen as
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anti—british by saying, well, actually we need a deal. mark, what you think the prospects are looking like for a deal? the health impact of covid in a moment. it is an extra weight on the british economy for a deal, isn't it? i think weight on the british economy for a deal, isn't it? ithink there is clearly a majority in the cabinet for a clearly a majority in the cabinet fora uk cabinet, clearly a majority in the cabinet for a uk cabinet, there clearly a majority in the cabinet fora uk cabinet, there is a clearly a majority in the cabinet for a uk cabinet, there is a strong desire on the part of the eu not to let it go, not to walk away from talks, even though they think the british have been very intransigent. but nevertheless, the time is very, very short. which is why i think what we may end up seeing quite soon as suggestions of some of those extraordinary eu tricks, like stopping the clock, or in some way coming up with a form of transition thatis coming up with a form of transition that is not a transition. something, both in the short term to ease the ratification process through the european parliament and national
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parliament uk, because people are even talking about having to come to a conclusion by the european side the week after this coming one. well, that really leaves very little time. so increasingly i think people will start to look at, can we avoid falling off the cliff edge of trading relationships by extending, in some way? and also i think it is conceivable that there may be some sort of implementation period to get all those customs and other checks in place on the channel, i sea etc. just on the impact of coronavirus, you have been filming in an english hospital this week. what is your impression? i saw some figures suggesting that on average, this is an average taken across the whole of england, hospitals were at 95% capacity when they are supposed to be at 80%. that is a winter thing in the nhs. it is normal for them to be
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up the nhs. it is normal for them to be up close to capacity. we have been filming at salisbury hospital, throughout the year, multiple visits at the peak of it all, in april, all of that sort of thing. it is notable, firstly, that this is affecting them much less than the first wave. i think one could say that the deaths in that hospital will be somewhere around 20% of the level that they were during the first wave. they have got about 400 beds, about 375 occupied. quite close to that figure you were saying. but only 14 of those patients with covid. i think it would be quite normal for a lot of people are not part of the country to say hang on a minute, with levels like that, and an impact so much less than the first wave, surely we could have hoped for tieri restrictions. they are not, they are in tier2. i restrictions. they are not, they are in tier 2. i think that is because many people to say, hang on a minute, this is not right. i think the only counter to that is to say the only counter to that is to say the reason that they are at that fairly low level of cases is all the restrictions that people put up with
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in the weeks before the english national lockdown came in. stefanie, it raises the question of whether the original measures that applied in england actually were very effective if we are now finding a situation where england comes out of lockdown, and most of the population goes into a much more serious restrictions than the experience before. of course. this is also what you can see on a political level. a lot of anger among mps, there is talk of 70 mps who are now plotting together to reject these new tier system next week and a vote in the house of commons. that of course is a massive challenge to the prime minister for a massive challenge to the prime ministerfor his a massive challenge to the prime minister for his authority. but, places like kent, for example, which is in big parts very rural, people are very angry that they actually have to live in tier 3 and cannot
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even go out for a drink with their own household. i mean, this is a dilemma and a question that you see all over the world, you see it in france, germany, the discussion is wide, especially in rural areas, or in east germany for example which has much lower numbers, people are so much restricted while they are actually perceived the health situation not as bad as it is in other areas of the country. thank you very much. a year ago, abiy ahmed was awarded the nobel prize for peace. ethiopia's prime minister had ended an enervating, two decades long conflict with neighbouring eritrea, freed thousands of prisoners, and basked in international approval. in the early hours of november 4th, with a posting on facebook, he ordered troops into tigray, a northern region run by the tigray people's liberation front. these are the politicians who used to run ethiopia before prime minister abiy. 40,000 people have fled to neighbouring sudan, prompting fears that the war could destabilise further
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an already troubled region. agnes, to the west, france is heavily engaged in mali, trying to keep that country together. china aside, it might even be said that france is the most engaged country from outside africa in african affairs right now. how frustrating do you think your president has found it to get other countries, notably the us, to engage in anything more than a supporting role? there are actually talks within the eu, actually talks with greece, talks with other countries to help french troops. but in terms of ethiopia, it is a different story altogether. it is the classic story ofa altogether. it is the classic story of a power struggle between the central government and dissident or separatist 405 or central government and di55ident or separatist 405 or force5. central government and di55ident or 5eparati5t 405 or force5. there is a big humanitarian crisis in the making. we have very little
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knowledge of what is going on on the ground. we know is we've got hundreds of thousands people being displaced. also the problem is that the ethiopian prime minister is refusing, for the moment, the ethiopian prime minister is refusing, forthe moment, the the ethiopian prime minister is refusing, for the moment, the help of the un, and the help of the african union. and we note the solution is political rather than military. the people of tigray i5 suffering greatly. military. the people of tigray is suffering greatly. the irony, of course, as suffering greatly. the irony, of course , as you suffering greatly. the irony, of course, as you mentioned, is that abiy ahmed got the nobel peace prize. i think in stockholm, in the nobel peace prize committee is, they should think twice about giving that prize to a politician who is still exerting power. we had seen it before and we know how things developed then. why not give the
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prize to barack 0bama... there was hope, but you do not give the nobel peace prize unless you want to devalue it clearly. that is anecdotal. but what is going on there is really worrying. stefanie, what do you think abiy ahmed is up to? well, i mean, it is a very difficult situation there. i am looking at this more from a european perspective, and as agnes just said, france is desperate to have more engagement of the european union. and the european union, as ever, is very reluctant. it is important to say that at least there are now talks between the us and the european union on what to do about it. and for the european union, this is so important to have a strategic and joint approach, because of the refugees. there are such a massive problem politically and humanitarian
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light, with refugees coming from africa. 0ngoing numbers of people coming from libya and from north africa who come through africa to come to europe. it is so important for europe to help stabilise regions like ethiopia or mali because this is in the european interest. that pa rt is in the european interest. that part of africa, mark, has plenty of problems. sudan to the west, 40,000 refugees have already fled from ethiopia, yemen across the gulf to the north. i spoke to a us senator this week. he reeled off a list of countries who he said the administration is worried about. it is not going to be possible forjoe biden not going to become involved in some form in what is happening in africa? it is not an easy one for the us, ithink. clearly covid africa? it is not an easy one for the us, i think. clearly covid will be the number one priority for the biden per. dinner will be other
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foreign policy priorities as we are to discuss. i think what is noticeable in this is the complexity and, ina noticeable in this is the complexity and, in a sense, failure of the post colonial legacy. almost all countries in that region, if you look at the long—running con dem conflict in sudan, which eventually obtained independence. in ethiopia, in facta obtained independence. in ethiopia, in fact a serious of secession movements, eritrea a 30 year conflict, before independence. this is why we came up with this federated structure in the first place, i guess. these issues are so complex. i think because of the examples of south sudan and eritrea, where secession has worked and they have gained independence, the example is therefore lots of other people who feel grievance against those colonial area. for the us to come in and actually exert a meaningful influence on that, i
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think is pretty questionable. 0n meaningful influence on that, i think is pretty questionable. on a point of detail, they have just re ce ntly point of detail, they have just recently ended the sort of separatist or independence of the africa command of the us military and related under europe. which suggest a downgrading of it. that was supposed to be doing capacity building, training, helping governments to resist, if you like, the forces of disintegration and secession. sol the forces of disintegration and secession. so i do not think the us is brilliantly placed to get involved. agnes, do you think there is an argument for saying, clearly this is prime minister ‘s view. he has said politely, go away. he does not want to talk to the other side, he wants a military victory. that is what he seems to be aiming for. you set a deadline, which has passed. he says he is going on, bombardment during the course of this weekend in mekelle, the regional capital. is there an argument that it might be
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better if there is a fast military victory, though that could be brutal, because the alternative could be a protracted conflict in which many more thousands of people are not only killed but are displaced and perhaps permanently. especially, you know, the un refugee committee saw in the last few days dozens of thousands of refugees crossing the border into sudan. suddenly it stopped. and so there is a possibility that military forces are preventing the people from the tigray region and from the town of mekelle, which i think has half a million inhabitants, to actually flee. and there is a scarcity of information of what is going on on the ground. there are food shortages, but also fuel shortage, and fuel replaces, you know, thanks
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to generators, they compensate for the lack of electricity. so, yes, you are right. what is better? a striking military victory for the prime minister or for the situation to fester and last for months if not years? it is impossible. we are in europe, we are looking at it, and because we have had some colonial responsibilities in history and in the past, we are probably not the best to have a say and to intervene. so, you know, and the people on the ground are suffering. what is there to add? thank you for that. "do what needs to be done". with those words donald trump finally allowed america's transition process from one president to the next to begin. president trump is still contesting
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the outcome of the election, but more states have formally certified their results and his legal challenges are stymied in the courts. joe biden unveiled his cabinet and, though he echoes mr trump's antipathy to "forever wars", it's clear that re—engaging with the world is near the top of his agenda. some in his democratic party fear this may be a re—engagement with the past rather than confronting the challenges of the future. mark, i suppose when you look at some of the names on that team. john kerry is the climate envoy, the former secretary of state. his former secretary of state. his former deputy, is now the new secretary of state. what do you make of those? what you read into the line—up he is putting in place, particularly in terms of his engagement with the outside world? it is the return of the experts. this is not the kind of blue sky thinking that donald trump applied to some of his initial cabinet appointments. as you say, tony
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lincoln is a career foreign—policy quy~ lincoln is a career foreign—policy guy. ditto, jake sullivan, the national security adviser. national security advisers seem to be getting younger. compute to me they are. the appointment of jake sullivan younger. compute to me they are. the appointment ofjake sullivan is a national security staff from the alabama period. 0n the one hand, the people around biden say we cannot turn the clock back to ten years ago orjust before the trump administration. the world has moved on, china's more powerful, more strident on the way it communicates on the world stage. although sort of things are different. but as you say, this attempt to kind of restore the expertise, the stability, the common—sense of the 0bama period. this is going to come to a head pretty quickly, i think, on the question of iran, and the biden administration's pledge to get back
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in to the nuclear deal with iran. which i have to say is an ambitious one. i entirely understand why they wa nt one. i entirely understand why they want to do it. they were both very personal involved in the long negotiations that led to it, but it isa negotiations that led to it, but it is a big ask. lys mousset sunset clause is already in that the clock is already beginning to come unravelled on the way it was originally conceived. iran can now buy weapons and stuff like that and do all sorts of things it could not do all sorts of things it could not do previously. from an iranian perspective, you can see the united arab emirates firing up a nuclear reactor, the saudis long suspected to have had various programmes related to nuclear weapons. israel, of course, the great and acknowledge weapons state in the region. will iran really be willing to be entered this agreement? there are power for economic reasons why they should do so, but in security terms, it is an
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open question. stefanie, we have the killing on friday of iran's top nuclear scientist, which the iranians say was the responsibility of israel. it is also possible to see it as an action, whoever was responsible, that will please, are not displeased, president trump who pulled out of the deal, and is clearly a real sceptic about the ability of that deal to restrain iran. do you think thatjoe biden is being a bit too optimistic about the chances of restoring this deal? thinking he has enough leverage compared to president trump? perhaps even because of the sanctions by president trump to actually achieve it? that remains to be seen. there are it? that remains to be seen. there a re lots of it? that remains to be seen. there are lots of questions around why this killing has happened now at this killing has happened now at this time and place. so, it is also interesting to see the comment of joe biden to say he is not going to be 0bama government number three. so
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while of course you could hear almost a sigh of relief this week when the names were made public of his new cabinet, and of course there's a lot of people who are coming from the 0bama administration, and therefore have very good contacts into europe. there is certainly the expectation that the dialogue and the relationship will be much better, much less erratic, and not so many surprises, like for example, the kind of not very pleasant surprise in germany in the summer when donald trump announced that he will withdraw one third of the us troops in germany. which is still a substantial number of 36,000 troops. which has a massive impact on security terms but also economically. there is the hope that when it comes to the nuclear deal, there will be talks and it might restart. but time has passed and as
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mark said, things have become more difficult, also on the iranian side, we do not know how much they have worked successfully on their nuclear programme. so things are far more complex and difficult than they were five years ago. agnes, the bernie sanders supporters seem rather displeased byjoe sanders supporters seem rather displeased by joe biden's sanders supporters seem rather displeased byjoe biden's line—up. it is not as forward—thinking or progressive, to use their language, as they would like. do you think thatjoe biden is just as they would like. do you think thatjoe biden isjust going to be another 0bama? thatjoe biden isjust going to be another0bama? 0r thatjoe biden isjust going to be another 0bama? or does that underplay the fact that, unlike president 0bama, he had a huge background in foreign affairs before he was vice president? there were quite a lot of failures in terms of international policy during the 0bama, biden administration. they failed with syria. they failed to reset the relationship with russia.
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they also failed to constrain north korea. so it would not be good to go back to the 0bama international policies. and trump is here to stay. so, yes, on one hand, wonderfulto see that, for want of a better word, the grown—ups are back in washington. they are experienced, calm, competent. the state secretary was educated in europe, in paris. his french is actually better than mine. so that will be some satisfaction in some quarters. and they're probably going to do a great job with climate. we are talking about the iran deal, but there is the hope that the us will rejoin the paris agreement. but it is not going to be back to 2016 or before. the
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relationship with china is going to bea relationship with china is going to be a tough test for the biden administration, but perhaps we should talk about europe and the us. i think there is need for fresh thinking on both sides of the atlantic. this is when germany and france have to agree, even though there has been some squabble recently, between the two, but basically of course we fear the collapse of nato, of course europe we depend for security on the us and to return to more traditional us engagement through biden is a good thing. but we should really work on being less dependent on having that strategic autonomy. and i think that isa strategic autonomy. and i think that is a huge topic for the eu to tackle. that defence policy. i think it is really of the essence, because trump has changed the world and
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america, not for the better. trump has changed the world and america, not forthe better. but trump has changed the world and america, not for the better. but it based... thank you all very much for being with us. one thought to leave with us. everybody is mention china, according to a recent survey, there are fewer mandarin speakers and arabic speakers put together in the us state department than portuguese speakers. something they might want to address. more dateline next week. goodbye. hello there. the weather's story this weekend is a little bit drab and dreary, i'm afraid, but at least it is milder than it has been this week. but many woke up to scenes like this, a lot of low cloud,
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misty, murky conditions, and it may well linger for much of the day. now, we have got two weather fronts bringing some light, patchy rain at the moment. to the north of that, though, we are still in the cold air — that is where the best of the sunshine will be. but to the south, we are starting to drag in more of a south—easterly flow, so milder airfor many. the rain is fairly light and patchy. this has been the story so far, it has been drifting out of cornwall, up through wales, into the west midlands, and continues to make its way steadily north. now, it will weaken off, as well, as it does so. so, a band of light, patchy rain continuing to drift northwards. quite a lot of cloud generally across england and wales. the best of the sunshine, northern ireland and much of scotland, through the afternoon. but here it won't be quite as warm after that cold start, temperatures are likely to peak at around 5—7. further south, we could see double digits, 11—13 the expected high. as we move out of saturday to the early hours of sunday morning, that cloud continues to drift its way steadily north.
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acting like a blanket, which is very nice indeed, thank you, but we could see those clear skies lingering in the far north—east of scotland. in sheltered rural glens, we could once again have a touch of frost. but temperatures were rightly holding up at around 5—7 first thing. but again, it is another grey, drab, dreary start to the day, and it is likely to linger throughout the whole of sunday. so, the best of the brightness perhaps to the far north—east, may be a western fringes seeing a little bit of brighter weather through the afternoon. temperatures, well, widely 8—10. we might see 12 across the south—west and the channel islands. now, as we move out of sunday into monday, we have got this weather front that is going to push into the north—west. it will bring outbreaks of rain, but once again, it brings a change of wind direction, as the winds swing round to a north—westerly. so, the milder air, the yellow tone, is going to be pushed out of the way, and we will see a return to something a little bit cooler as we go through the week. so, yes, there is the potential for some rain around on monday,
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this is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. a warning that hospitals in england could become overwhelmed with coronavirus cases, if mps don't back new restrictions. iran's president rouhani blames israel for the assassination of a top nuclear scientist, saying his country won't be deterred from its nuclear ambitions. a worrying weekend for 13000 workers at some of the uk's biggest retail names, the group that owns topshop, dorothy perkins, and miss selfridge is on the brink of collapse. new figures reveal a million more americans caught covid in less than a week — 1500 people are now dying every day and health workers are feeling the strain. the eu's chief brexit negotiator, michel barnier, and his uk
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