the latest headlines for you from bbc news. the us attorney general, william barr, a trump appointee and loyalist, has said thejustice department has not uncovered evidence of widespread voter fraud that would change the outcome of the presidential election. mrtrump‘s campaign has responded, claiming there hasn't been "any semblance of an investigation". three prominent hong kong pro—democracy activists have arrived at court for sentencing. joshua wong, agnes chow, and ivan lam have already pleaded guilty to organising and taking part in an unauthorised assembly in june last year, near the police headquarters. they face up to three years injail. police in sweden have arrested a 70—year—old woman on suspicion of holding her son captive at home for up to 30 years. local media say the man, now in his 40s, had been taken out of school when he was 12. he's undergoing surgery in hospital.

it has just it hasjust gone it has just gone four, 30 in the morning. now on bbc news — hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. imran khan won power in pakistan two years ago with a promise to root out corruption and take on the country's vested interests. so how's it going? well, rising food prices and the covid pandemic have left many pakistanis feeling worse off, while the anti—corruption drive has become a political battleground. my guest today, ishaq dar, was pakistan's finance minister, a key lieutenant of former prime minister nawaz sharif. now both of those men are trying to rally opposition to imran khan. but how much credibility do they have?

ishaq dar, welcome to hardtalk. thank you for inviting me. let us begin with your personal status, your legal status. you are a wanted man in pakistan. are you here in london to escape the judicial process? not really, i think you must be aware of the pakistan history. whenever in pakistan over a period of 73 years the corruption rhetoric has been used in the last few dictatorships and the current one isn't different. because this regime is known to be under a covert coup

orjudicial martial law. i can prove that there is nothing against me. and i have all the evidence. i hope that you know that the prime allegation against me, my name is not in the panama papers, my name is not in the april20... let me stop because some people will not be following this in great detail. so you are saying your name is not in the panama papers. nonetheless, we learned an awful lot from those panama papers published in 2016, about monies being stashed away in foreign bank accounts. and involves some very top level pakistanis. and there was reason to believe that notjust nawaz sharif‘s family was involved but your family too. no, there isn't mention of my family. i'm not saying there was a specific mention of your family but the national accountability bureau decided after the publication of the panama papers to look very closely at yours and your family's interests, assets and accounts. most welcome. and they found that there were grave problems with your accounts. no, not at all. because you see, i'm sure

that you would be privy that it was a supreme court direction that set up a joint investigation team. which is extrajudicial activity which was co—decided. and there were two military intelligence members who were virtually governing the other six members of the git. you see there is a background. i'm actually interested in what's known in pakistan as the national accountability bureau, which is the main agency of anti—corruption. and they looked very carefully at you and your family's interest as you well know. in september 2017 they concluded that you and your family owned assets "beyond your known sources of income". they said quite specifically, the accused, that is you, has acquired assets and pecuniary interest resources in his own name and the name of dependants totalling roughly us$6 million. more than 830 million pakistani rupees. is it your contention that the national accountability bureau

has no integrity? it has lost its integrity a long time back. it is an institution which is used against political opponents... but you didn't say that, with respect sir, when you were a very senior serving government minister. idid. i held a press conference. i explained, by the way, this number as per my tax return. i never misused... you see a prime allegation against me that was in the report, on the basis of which the supreme court directed and file a reference, was that i did not file, 20 years, tax return in pakistan for 1981 to 2001. a uk qualified chartered accountant never missed reporting his tax matters in the uk when he was here until 1976. and then in the north america two years and then in pakistan since 17 missing any tax return. this is such a blatant allegation... is it?

well, in that case, let's be very open and transparent with each other. i've interviewed many government ministers and officials around the world over the years and they always say, "oh, i'm not responsible for any corruption at all and i believe in transparency." i do. you do. so how many properties do you and your family own? it's all in my tax returns. just give me the answer because i don't know. how many properties do you and your family own? i have my main residence in pakistan which has been taken over by this regime. i haven't got too many properties. how many properties do you and your family have? my net worth is... how many properties do you and your family own? 0ne. 0ne? you and your family own one property? yes. so, all of these stories in the pakistani press, about multiple properties owned by yourfamily inside pakistan, property interests overseas including in dubai. and we're sitting in london, do you not own nothing in london? not just you, your family? no, not at all. 0wn nothing? and dubai? dubai?

my sons have just one villa. which is owned by them. they're in business for the last 17 years. so when i asked you how many properties you and your family own, you said one, that wasn't strictly true? no, it is strictly true because they are adult, married and for 17 years, they are in business. so they are independent of me. you know very well that when the nab looked at your assets they were looking at you and your family. i have no issue. my family, everything is accounted for. that's exactly true. if all of this is so clear cut, you only owned one property in the entire world, your tax records that have been kept and given to the authorities over the last 20 years... yup. if everything is so crystal clear, why do you not go to pakistan and make this case in a court of law? well, the court of law you know, my lawyers were there, i am here for medical treatments. you've been here for what, the best part of three years? on this medical issue. yeah, almost. are you still really suffering? yes, iam. and you couldn't possibly

get back to pakistan? well, let's see what's happening in pakistan. where are the human rights? what's happening in there, dozens of people have been killed, virtually. those are human rights abuses. i'm sorry. you're saying those who have been investigated by the nab, the national accountability bureau, have been killed? in the nab custody many people have died, yes. it's open secret. you google, you would have all the detail. i can leave detail with you if you want. this institution has been politically used against opponents. as i said, i never missed a return. the premise of the entire thing, and whatever my net worth is already, if it is documented in my tax returns and my tax return is not missing. so it is totally accounted for — so what is the issue? the issue is, is something different. because mr sharif is fighting for the civil supremacy and i have always been fighting for financial... you introduced the name mr sharif. i think we need to talk about mr sharif as well as yourself

because nawaz sharif is also in london, also on medical grounds. manhandled by the nab. in its custody. manhandled you say, the truth is nawaz sharif is a convicted criminal. i hope you know that both cases in which he has been convicted, in bothjudgements it is been written that the prosecution has not been able to prove any corruption, any kickback, any loss to the executive orders and so on. i'm sorry, sir, but it is quite clear that he is a convicted criminal. and again the accountability court which works alongside the national accountability bureau found against nawaz sharif. i believe he was given a 10—year sentence and that was reduced ultimately to seven years. he was then allowed to come to london on medical grounds. the same medical grounds that brought you to london too. here the two of you, sit. and now you and he, you of course used to be his finance minister in the pakistan government. you and he put yourselves forward as leading voices in the opposition in pakistan.

demanding early elections and an end to imran khan's government. i ask you what credibility do you think you have with the pakistani people? what credibility does imran khan have? the world has witnessed that it was a stolen election, it was a rigged election. it's not we who are saying, we have experienced, all pre—poll 2018 surveys indicate that we would win. but the observers, the human rights commission in pakistan, the dirtiest election everyone knows the election has been stolen from us. with respect, ijust look back at the eu monitors‘ report on that election. they reported some grave concerns about abuses in specific places. not involving just one party, but several different parties.

sure. but the final and ultimate conclusion was that they believe the result was credible. that imran khan's election victory in 2018 was credible. that was the conclusion of the report. but you haven't read all the reports. the human rights... you can cherry pick the most negative. i'm telling you that the eu monitor is a highly respected, independent monitors and they look to everything that is happening pakistan and they concluded that imran khan's victory was credible. no. free and fair election, which is the global one. do we have any question on their integrity? look at the report. i don't believe there's ever been an election in pakistan without some abuses. where every single thing was conducted with freedom and integrity. that doesn't work in pakistan. the truth is imran khan has a democratic mandate. he's been in powerfor two years and you are now saying to the pakistani people he must be removed from office. mr sackur, this election has been stolen. it was a rigged election, there was a pre—poll rigging. elects from our party were posted to his party, using the nab. during the day, the results system was put off of hours.

polling experts were expelled. 35 seats were rigged and stolen. otherwise he would have never been in government. well, your party chooses to say that. i'm simply looking back to the chief of the eu monitoring team who said overall the election result is credible. well, you haven't read the whole report. the whole report of eu chief. what did it say before this last sentence? of course, his conclusion is the most important thing, i think you would agree. well.. maybe you wouldn't. let's move on. let's talk about what your tactics are now. you and nawaz sharif are sending your video links back into pakistan, sometimes to thousands of people, demanding an early end to the imran khan government. this isjust a month ago — nawaz sharif said to thousands of people in punjab, he said that the integrity of the army chief had disappeared. he said that the general was responsible for levering

him out of office and rigging 2018, as you've said, this is what nawaz sharif said, directly to the general, the chief of the army, he said "you packed up our government and you put the nation at the altar of your own wishes. you rejected the people's choice in elections and installed an inefficient, incapable group, leading to economic catastrophe". what an extraordinary thing to say of your country's chief of army. it's a reality. the buck stops at the top. and the deep state is known, what deep state does in pakistan. is it a surprise to you? it is known to the world. hillary clinton just the other day gave an interview.

and she said what is deep state quoting pakistan as an example. so please, we must be fair to analyse things. the election was stolen, it started off from dawn leaks the supremacy of democracy for the supremacy of parliament, and i have been struck for the fiscal and discipline transparency. is it wrong? uk has been upholding democracy and the democratic value. people would think that you would be supporting us. let's be clear. you are saying the pakistani military, the army in particular, are subverting all democratic processes in your country? this is the global report. it's not weak. no, i want to be clear what you're saying. because the pakistani people are listening to this interview and you are condemning the military of your own country as subverting your democracy. it is not the military. we have to talk of all the individuals. it's not all the entire institution. let's create a difference! it's the wish list, the plan of certain people who enforce in pakistan martial law.

so you are saying the army is led by the general who in your and nawaz sharif‘s opinion is entirely subverting democracy, is that what you're saying? i want to be clear! let's rea rticulate. what we are saying is that if the elections were rigged it is not established beyond doubt. if the elections were rigged and somebody... it's not we — it is the interior minister of pakistan giving a statement that if mr sharif had not got a problem with the deep state and the institutions he would have been a fourth—time prime minister. why would he say? let me be clear. you're now alleging that this is entirely unacceptable when your erstwhile boss and very close ally nawaz sharif was working hand in glove with pakistan's military dictator for many years. and suddenly he's decided that the military and the way that they interfere

and politics in pakistan is entirely unacceptable. what kind of hypocrisy is that? i disbelieve this analysis. i disagree with you. what of what i've just said is wrong? maybe evolution process. evolution process? oh, you mean because he was in power now is out of power so he's really angry with the army because they won't work with him? it's not the first time. it's the third time he was prime minister. imran khan and minister that's the whole word. mr sharif would have been fourth—time prime minister if he had not got in trouble with the establishment. imran khan may be unpopular in pakistan now but when he heard what nawaz sharif said last month at that rally when he directly targeted the chief of army, imran khan said "how dare nawaz sharif point to the general and blame him for what is happening in pakistan when for years mr nawaz sharif polished the boots of a former military dictator?"

when imran khan said that i dare say he actually had a great deal of sympathy for many pakistanis who know hypocrisy when they see it. i think they probably haven't seen these 21 clips how he has been maligning the military. the military army chief, the intelligence services of pakistan. and not too long before, just last year when he was in the united states, he gave a statement that it is the isi the intelligent service which actually was responsible for 0sama bin laden and killing etc, etc. when he was out of power, when he was in opposition, he had given 21 different statements at different times. he was known as taliban khan. are we talking or wish to discuss his performance? are we here to talk whether it is a pure democracy?

you and other opposition elements and you have created this pakistan democratic movement. you want to deliver early elections and see imran booted out of power. but many people, even in your own movement, are now backing away from this targeting of the pakistani military. it has been said it was regrettable that nawaz sharif had named the military chief by name. even mr sharif‘s own daughter maryam had to stress at great length that she was not anti—military. it sounds that nawaz sharif has overstepped the mark. there seems to be confusion. mr nawaz sharif as prime minister or otherwise is not anti—military. please, let's be very clear. he blamed certain individuals. as i said, the buck, you know it stops at the top. the dawn leaks, there is a huge history about that, i'm sure you would be privy to dawn leaks. we brought pakistan out from grey and it was white. if mr sharif talks of certain interventions which are against the constitution of pakistan,

is it something wrong? let's talk about politics and your message to your own people. we know that pakistani people are suffering right now. food price inflation is soaring. covid—19 is seeing a second surge in your country, creating real economic difficulties. sure. there's going to be barely any growth in the pakistan economy this year. in the midst of all of that, you are creating a new level of political instability — demanding that imran call early elections, calling him illegitimate. banging on about the vote rigging, claiming that the army is really in power. do you think that your approach is really helping the interest of the pakistani people? i think you have to review to the umpire, mr sackur. 2014, we won the election 2013. massive majorities,

two thirds, almost. 2014, with khan to agitate, consequences rigged only his claim. nobody spoke. crosstalk you've gone back now six years. i'm putting myself in the shoes of a pakistani today who sees rising food prices, political instability geopolitical instability and you wonder whether the opposition sitting in london really have the interest of ordinary pakistani people at heart? yes, we have the pakistani people at heart. that's why we are moving. this country had witnessed double revenue collection, five years at lowest inflation. lowest interest rates. best performing stock market in south asia. most stable currency. the highest gdp growth at 5.8%. it's all music. you're western, you know the institutions had all the praise and what was the final report? what did it say? pwc said pakistan is going to join g20 by 2030. we were striving to

bring it even earlier. and we were very clearly hoping that since we had ended the bloodshed, extreme terrorism in pakistan. we had improved economic indicators in pakistan. i understand. i'm not suggesting that your personal economic record was bad. in some ways it was good. listen, i'm just trying to get you to respond to a simple question. pakistan is where it is today. hang on, imran khan has a five—year mandate. he won the election. he did not. you have a choice, you have a choice, you can wait to fight in the next election if you choose to go home, frankly, but at the moment you're still in london. you can either fight at the ballot box during the next election or you can try to undermine imran khan and his government from the sidelines, from here in london and thereby create new economic and political instability.

is that the choice you've made? it's not a matter of political instability. it's a matter of incompetence. it's a matter of non—performance. it's a matter of ruining and grounding the economy of pakistan in two years. before corona mind you, after 1952 pakistan the first time had seen negative gdp growth. after 1952, from 5.8% first year, this year 0.4 negative. and there is massive unemployment. we pulled 6% of people out of poverty. he has pushed back 6% of people in the poverty line. he promised to give ten millionjobs. he has made people unemployed, 12 million adding to the unemployment numbers. pakistan is in big trouble. i just wonder whether your approach is weakening pakistan on the world stage. you recently, hang on, you recently tweeted a message saying that imran khan, and i'm going to quote your words "personified fascism." now imran khan, imran khan has stood up for pakistan's interests in a very tough stand against india and mr modi

which you well know. really? he has also conducted a foreign policy which sees deepening economic ties with china. which is precisely the same policy that you followed. he also is trying to use pakistan's influence, it seems, to bring the taliban to the peace table in afghanistan. what is it about these policies that you think personifies fascism? well, i think perhaps we haven't studied or had the time to look into what fascism he is doing. do you stand by that, do you? i do, i do. there is a fascist government in pakistan as of now. you're trying to mobilise tens of thousands of people on the streets in different pakistani cities even when there a covid pandemic. your message is that we must bring khan's government down by the middle of the year and have new elections. you haven't succeeded so far, what is your next move? i think you haven't seen imran khan doing the same. you see the medium gatherings starting from the 16th of

0ctober. but you haven't seen in the same period, in the last six weeks, you haven't seen the gathering, large gatherings by imran khan himself. what is your next move? our ultimate aim and goal is supremacy of democracy in pakistan. the free and fair election which will be transparent and totally acceptable. and that would be the rule of law? the rule of law. will you go home to face the rule of law? of course i will. rule of law and transparency. the constitution has to be, all institution has to work within the domain. which has been prescribed in the constitution of the islamic republic of pakistan. i think will be very happy. right now when i tweeted i have no regret, and is the reality. i can give you... you know, a prime minister who calls the director—general federal investigation agency and gives them names and says go and arrest them.

what sort of governor is this? well, we have to end it there. but i do thank you very much indeed for coming into the hardtalk studio. it is a pleasure, it is a pleasure. many thanks. hello there. we are into the start of december and meteorological winter and it will feel very wintry for the rest of this week. we will see change behind this cold front, very cold artic air will spread and some showers which will turn increasingly wintry over northern hills through the course of today. windy for much of scotland

and northern ireland with gales in the far northwest and a lot of showers, western scotland particularly, where some will be heavy with hail and thunder mixed in and increasing snow to the hills. the cold front sinking to the southeast will confine to the southeast, cloudy with rain but the skies will brighten up later on in the day and cold air and temperatures in the single digits. heading to wednesday night, showery for snow on the hills in the north and we start to see the weatherfront bringing more organised rain in the parts of england and wales in the night, so here because of the wind, cloud and rain, not as cold as it was further north and snow showers and clear spells. into thursday, this complex area of low pressure establishes up across the country, northern half of the country, will see sunshine and showers, snow in the hills and even down to lower levels at times, particularly in western scotland. across southern england and wales, it will be really cloudy, wet and pretty heavy rain at times,

gales through the channel and even a little bit of wintryness over the high ground across england and wales. it will feel cold wherever you are and temperatures of 3—7 degrees. heading into friday, area of low pressure sticks around and we will see two centers it, one could bring some rain and hill snow, significant accumulating snow across parts of scotland. and we will see this front pushing into central and eastern england to bring some heavy rain and you could see snow on the hills here in the pennines and wet sleety snow down to lower levels. the best of any dry and bright weather will be across northern ireland, wales and the southwest of england but it will be another really cold day wherever you are. 0ur area of low pressure sticks around heading into the weekend. notice as we move to saturday and sunday it starts to weaken a little bit. part two of the week looks a little bit quieter. you can see both saturday and sunday will remain cold and further wintry showers on saturday, and something

a little bit drier and quieter on sunday.

this is bbc news. i'm sally bundock with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. let's face facts. the state of our planet is broken. humanity is waging war on nature. this is suicidal. we hearfrom the un secretary general who says tacking global warming will be central to the united nations next year — antonio guterres is taking part in a special bbc broadcast. one of donald trump's closest allies, the attorney general william barr, says he's found no evidence of widespread voter fraud in the us presidential election. first details in the case of a

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