this is bbc news. the headlines: the us house of representatives has impeached president trump for inciting last week's deadly assault on congress by his supporters — but his trial in the senate won't happen until after he leaves office. president trump for inciting insurrection, a week after his supporters stormed the capitol. mr trump becomes the first president to be impeached twice. ten republicansjoined the democrats�* in a vote to put him on trial in the senate. as the speaker nancy pelosi signed the articles of impeachment, she said president trump represented a clear and present danger to the united states and no—one was above the law. if he is convicted he could be barred from standing from public office again. in a statement released by the white house, twitter account, president trump says there is never any justification for violence and he urges americans to be united. now on bbc news... hardtalk.

stephen sackur talks to tamara rojo, artistic director of the english national ballet. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. some of the things the covid pandemic has taken from us are easier to quantify than others. the death toll and the job losses make headlines. the closed arts venues, the lack of shared creative experiences — not so much. but make no mistake, the arts face an unprecedented crisis. my guest is tamara rojo, the internationally renowned dancer and artistic director of the english national ballet. can the performing arts survive the covid calamity?

tamara rojo, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much. try to capture for me, if you can, the personal and professional impact that covid—i9 has had upon you. i don't think that upon me is that interesting or very important at this point — other than, obviously, most of the time that we were supposed to be creating, being home. i think it's... i would prefer to discuss the impact this has in english national ballet, for sure, or in performing arts and ballet dancers, which has been, without a doubt, the biggest challenge we've ever faced.

and, i mean, when we started in march, we went to a lockdown. we lost all our performances. we were one week away from premiering a new creation by akram khan. we sent everybody home. we started to share classes online, from my kitchen, to just keep the dancers working and training. and then what was surprising is, because we did so freely, we had four million views of those classes, and then we started to share our archive performances. and that also reached one million views. but, for english national ballet, our business model is one that is very much based on performing. only a third of our income comes from public subsidy, and the other two thirds is its own income from performing, from partnerships, corporate. it needs action. it needs performing to exist. so how close to going

bust are you at the english national ballet? well, we took all the measures that were possible throughout the year and, without a doubt, the £3 million we got from the rescue package of the government and the furlough scheme and job retention schemes were a life—saver — for us and for most of the sector. and so, for now, we are ok until the spring. but, of course, we all know that this situation has lasted much longer than we could have planned. and so, despite reducing salaries and furloughing the workforce, and not replacing jobs or reducing the size of the company and creating a digital platform — despite everything we have done, i think beyond april things look really, really scary.

as i said at the very beginning, the tangible, real—time impacts of covid on public health — the death numbers, the infection numbers, the job losses — they are easy for people to understand. how would you explain to people — perhaps people who normally are not aficionados of ballet — how would you explain to them why this matters so much? i mean, we have been doing. we have been making the case, the financial case, for the creative industries for a long time now. and i think it is a case that needs to continue to be made because it's a very strong case. i mean, this is without a doubt, like i said, the biggest challenge to the creative industries. and we are talking about the biggest success story of the uk economy.

in normal time, we bring 111 billion to the uk economy. we create work more...faster than any other industry. we employ two million people. we export 42 billion in content and services. you know, it's a very important part of the identity of the uk as a nation — incredibly important in soft power. so there is plenty of data to support why they are important. if we had continued without covid, the university of the arts predicted that, by 2030, we will be bringing 300 billion to the uk economy... but i understand that — there's no question that the arts are an extremely important part of the uk economy. but life is what it is. you can't perform before audiences right now. some people might say, "well, yes, that's sad and it's bad, "but, you know, this will come back." there's always going to be a dance tradition in the uk. there will always be new dancers you can hire when this is over.

why is this such a crisis? i think what we have learned from this period is that finances are not the measure of a successful society. we could see a future in which we are all sitting at home, working from home in our own bedrooms, never seeing anybody. but i think it's clear, after this period, that that is not a future any of us want to live in. and that the one thing that has kept people going and has kept their morale and their psychological wellbeing and even the physical wellbeing going, is the arts. it has been music, it has been cinema, it has been the free access to content from theatres and ballet companies like ourselves. and the one thing we miss the most is the shared experiences of humanity. it's coming together to share what we are, to empathise with others, to listen to stories. and it's something that we have done for millennia. it's something we have needed for ever.

i'm very interested in this idea you had, to put dance class online and invite the camera into your own kitchen so that you could share — and, as you say, with hundreds of thousands, ultimately millions of people around the world — share your own exercise class routine. it's such a physical experience, training and dancing. you have had to modify your lifestyle very much because you can't go into the studio and you can't perform before huge audiences. how have you maintained, in a sense, your link with your own body, your own physicality,

to ensure that you remain as able to be as physically expressive now as you were before lockdown began? there is a physical reality to dance that we can't avoid. and as successful as my classes from my kitchen were, and as useful and important for so many people, like you say, around the world, they are not the alternative. the truth is that we are in the business of physical movement. we need a space. we need contact. we are also in the business of massive gathering. so there was a real struggle. but, you know, sincejuly, we were able to return in bubbles into our studios. the fact that we moved to the east of london and we had a building that allowed us to do that and create digital content was incredibly helpful at this time, because first we started returning for training, then we were able to commission choreographers, create five world premieres,

and rehearse for a christmas season of nutcracker that suddenly was cancelled, but we still were able to film it. so even with this pandemic and all the restrictions, as always, you know, the creative industries, the performing arts, we're adaptable, we are innovative. we will find a way to continue to create and to continue to be in touch with our audiences. but it is not easy, because i think dance is probably the one performing art that is the most difficult to do under these current circumstances. you sit on a committee advising the government on how to safeguard

the performing arts. this british government has pledged over £1.5 billion to your sector and others involved in sports and artistic activity. but if you compare it with france, say, or germany, the money, the financial support has not been at the same level. now, you're an artist, you're not a politician. but are you beginning to think the british government doesn't prioritise the arts in the way it should? i mean, we have to recognise that between the job retention schemes and the huge rescue package — and it's historic — of 1.6 billion almost, many organisations, including english national ballet, has been saved, like i said, until april. but it is also true, is that the situation is lasting much longer than any of us could have anticipated, and that it is now the moment to look at what other measures we need. and, obviously, we also need support for freelancers.

i think when the support package was designed, the intention was that the industry will restart so that creators, producers, companies like ourselves, will be able to invest and rehire those freelancers. because covid continues to not enable us to perform, that means that that has not trickled down in the way that it should. so, yes, in this case, we should look at places like france and see the kind of support they have for freelancers. i want to now lift our horizons, if you like, from the specifics of lockdown and your financial situation to a more philosophical thought. we are talking to each other in the midst of another lockdown in the united kingdom, which i guess means you're spending a lot of time indoors at home, and maybe thinking about your art form in a different way. do you think, when ballet returns before audiences, as it used to be, will it

be the same? or do you think this is an opportunity to rethink what ballet is and maybe to rethink your own role in your performing art? i will say that, for sure, this situation has had a silver lining, and that is the possibilities of the digital platforms to reach audiences that we could have never reached in live performances. i mean, our mission has always been to bring ballet to the widest possible audience. but this year has been the year that we have been able to do so in the biggest, most democratic way. and so i think, looking forward, although i believe that our core mission has to continue to do live performances and, as i said before, the coming together as humans to share and to listen to stories and to have a common experience, i think that will never be replaced and that

will forever be needed. but i think now is a good opportunity and certainly this time has given us the opportunity to invest in a different way of approaching our art form... sorry to interrupt, tamara, but i'm just also... this idea of rethinking ballet, i'm also interested in your thoughts on whether it's time to rethink the requirements of the performers. i mean, your career began almost three decades ago. you've been dancing professionally for an awful long time. and during the time you've danced, there's always been a very live debate about the pressures, particularly on female dancers, pressures that come with expectations about weight, about physique, about what the ballerina should look like. do you think, given this opportunity to rethink, that there does need to be a reassessment of some

of the pressures put, expectations put upon female dancers? i think the interesting thing is that those assumptions of what a ballerina should be are quite new. if you look at the history of ballet, the bodies of ballerinas, or the requirements of what was expected, have continually changed with fashion. they have changed with the fashion of the time. it's not the same, a ballerina in the 1930s and a ballerina in the 1800s, a ballerina in the �*60s, �*70s, or a ballerina today. and so i think that the thing that is surprising is that some of those perceptions have persisted, even in the industry and outside, despite the fact they are not really there. they're not written anywhere. they are not part of the canon. nowhere it says what a ballerina should look like. so, of course, i don't agree with those perceptions.

so when a former lead dancer at the miami city ballet, kathryn morgan — she spoke out, it went viral on youtube — she was in tears, saying, "i think the problem "is that the standard of this sinewy, "almost prepubescent look for dancers "is just not doable for so many of us," did you agree, and do you believe that your own company, the english national ballet, needs to rethink? well, i certainly agree. and it is not a requirement that we will ask of our dancers at english national ballet. and i have never asked. and it's actually a very modern look, it's this one that comes from the �*60s and �*70s and the very particular choreographers and directors, and it was their own personal preference. and it's not based, like i said, in anything that is really true to the art form... because so much of what i have read in the past from dancers involves —

i'm going to be honest about it — involves pain. you know, the very, very painful experience of keeping your body in the condition that allows it to do the amazing things that you and so many other brilliant dancers do. you in the past have been open about the fact you once danced with a ruptured appendix, which seems almost beyond belief to me. but you stayed on stage and then you came back two weeks after having an operation on that appendix, which sounds like it was a mistake, cos it did damage to your body. you've also talked about dancing with a sprained ankle. maybe it's. .. i mean, this sounds odd, but maybe it's time to not do that any more. your dancers in the future probably shouldn't be told that it's good to dance through pain. um... i will say definitely i will not allow any of my dancers to return to work after two weeks of having appendix surgery. but no—one did force me... but why did you do it, tamara? my own drive. my own dedication.

my own misunderstanding of what my position was. but that's just my mistake. and, thankfully, it wasn't a deadly mistake. but i will say there are two things in this, in your question. one is that, any elite sport, whether that is gymnastics or whether that is marathon running or anything, any olympic athlete will have to go through pain because training is painful. even yourself — if you go to the gym after weeks of being at home, it's going to hurt. so pain is unavoidable in physical training. but one thing that has changed, and certainly at the english national ballet we have made incredible efforts and investment in changing, is having the right medical support and the right knowledge and the right steps and mechanisms to know what is normal pain from training and what is an injury,

and, when there is an injury, to have the right support and the right steps to recover properly and in a healthy manner. mm. i'm also intrigued by the, if you like, sexual dynamic in your industry and that obviously you and many other women have been the most amazing dancers, but there have been fewer top female choreographers. and it's interesting to me that covid robbed you of the opportunity to choreograph your own first production of raymonda, because i believe it had to be postponed because of covid. but you clearly are moving in the direction of choreography. do you believe that women choreographers may have a different way of putting on ballet, a way which perhaps revolves around empowering the women characters more? or is that too simplistic? i mean, the thing that motivated me to start using my position as artistic director to bring women

to choreograph was the fact that, in my over 20—year career, i had never performed in a choreography made by a woman. never? never. why do you think that is? i had been part of choreographic workshops that in my own time i had worked with colleagues that were wanting to be choreographers but that were subsequently never commissioned, even though there were other young men that were commissioned. and why do you think that is? i think there are many reasons, the same reasons that make it more difficult for women to be in the executive positions of organisations. some are biological, some are structural, societal. but the important thing was that, since i started, and we started with a programme called, she said, and then she persisted. and we have given opportunity to choreograph to over 30 women in english national ballet in a year. something has changed.

and, right now, i don't think any artistic director of any valid company will present a season without some women choreographers in it. and that is good. i think that is a good way forward. whether or not that is going to change that kind of choreography, the interesting thing i learned from this experience is that every woman is different, like every man is different, and they all want to tell different stories. you made a point earlier when you were talking about the importance of protecting the arts, in particular, your own art form, the ballet,

from the impacts of covid—i9, you were saying, you know, just how important it is to maintain the arts as a community benefit. but you perhaps are in one of those art forms which in the past has been seen as dominated by an elite. and perhaps the audience has been seen as elite too. how does ballet completely get away from this notion that it is elitist, that it's not for the ordinary people? i wish i had the answer because i think i have dedicated my career to dismantling this perception. because it's certainly not my experience. i think there is a misunderstanding into what it is — the elite of an art form. and what i mean by that is that obviously the performers have to be the top of the dancers. so to be able to be a ballet dancer, you really need to be at the elite of your technical

ability, of your talent, and of your dramatic ability. and somehow that has given a perception that the art form itself is elitist or that only people that come from a certain background should or can have access to it. and that certainly is not my experience. many of my colleagues, me included, do not come from an elitist background. it is very much a profession based on hard work and resilience, and it is one of those professions, like many performing arts, that really gives an opportunity for social mobility because it doesn't matter where you come from — it's your talent that counts. last quick question, tamara. you are still a principal lead dancer at the english national ballet, but you've had to take, necessarily, pretty much a year off because of lockdown. do you see your future still as a dancer, or are you going to go

in different directions? well, ithink, you know, i've had a very fortunate career and i've had a very long career. and now, for many years, i've also been the artistic director of the company. and like you said, it was my intention to do my first production, raymonda, this year, which has been delayed hopefully to later this year or early next year. but a lot of people will want to know whether you're going to continue to dance. the short answer to that is i don't know. but certainly i am not the dancer i was in my 30s, so there'll be lots of things i won't be able to do, and that's ok. that's the reality of our career. and like i said, i am very privileged cos i can make that decision myself. so no regrets there. tamara rojo, we have to end, but thank you very much indeed forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you very much for having me.

hello there. we have wet weather across many parts of the country at the moment but it's notjust rain. we've got snow falling, too, increasingly across scotland and northern england. we have this amber heavy snow warning from the met office. these are the main areas of concern. snow across other parts of scotland and northern england. this is where we are expecting the heaviest snow to be. over the hills, 20 cm by late morning on thursday, and some snow to lower levels as well inland. we have seen this band of cloud on that front moving its way slowly eastward.

whilst we see milder air out towards the west, there is still cold air across northern and eastern parts of britain. that's why we are seeing the rain turning increasingly to snow over the hills. quite a range of temperatures early on thursday morning. that wintry mix of rain and sleet and snow continues across much of scotland and northern england throughout thursday. wetter weather in the midlands down towards the southeast and we could see a bit of sleet and snow in that across lincolnshire for a while in the midlands. it will be colder underneath that wet weather. temperatures two to 4 degrees. colder still over the high ground. much milderfor northern ireland and wales in the southwest where it will be drier and some sunshine on the way for northern ireland. during the evening and overnight, we will find a lot of that wet weather, that wintry mix petering out, so it does become drier by the time we get to friday morning. but we are likely to have a widespread frost and that will lead to some icy conditions as well as

that covering of snow. things are drying off because we are seeing this little ridge of high pressure building in from the southwest. the winds are going to be light across many parts of the country. we will be left with probably a lot of cloud around. there may well be some quite low cloud and some fog which will be slow to lift. probably the best of the sunshine towards northeastern parts of scotland and improving towards the southwest as well. temperatures here lower than they have been over the past 2a hours. for many parts of the country, it will be another chilly day. a weather front sweeping across the country early into the weekend and behind that we get more of a northwesterly airflow, so for a while, early spells of rain and maybe some snow over the hills, it is soon replaced by sunshine and the rest of the weekend should be sunny and it will still be rather blustery.

this is a bbc news special — on the day president trump was impeached a second time. the resolution is adopted without objection. members of the house of representatives formally charge him with inciting insurrection after last week's mob violence on the capitol building. house speaker nancy pelosi says trump is a "clear and present danger" before signing the resolution impeaching him — call for calm. i unequivocally condemned the violence that we saw last week. violence and vandalism have absolutely no place in our

country, and no place in our movement.