a united airlines jet has scattered debris over homes and motorists in colorado after one of its engines failed on take—off. the boeing 777, with 231 passengers and ten crew on board, was able to return safely and land at denver airport. security forces in myanmar have opened fire on protesters in the city of mandalay. at least two people were killed and more than twenty were injured. it's the most serious escalation so far in the military�*s response to protests against the coup in the country. russian opposition leader alexei navalny has been found guilty of defaming a second world war veteran in his second court appearance of the day. he's already been sentenced to more than two years in prison. mr navalny had called

the case a smear campaign hello, i'm shaun ley. this is the programme that brings together leading commentators, specialists and commentators who film reports for the folks back home. this week, for the folks back home. this week. how — for the folks back home. this week, how patient _ for the folks back home. this week, how patient will people be as vaccinations declined. peaceful in myanmar but what will make the generals listen. and the not so splendid isolation of north korea. we hope to bejoined by annalise. jeffrey is already with us. a former white house

diplomatic correspondent and ex— london bureau chief stop he is also a lawyer so i will need to mind my peas and cues. and celia hatton, the asia—pacific editor. great to have you with us. let's begin with the practical questions of the world not being able to vaccinate —— vaccinate itself out of the covid pandemic. although the uk's progress in inoculating citizens has been widely praised, the statement expected on monday from boris johnson on exiting lockdown is likely to be heavy with caveats. geoff, saturday's newspapers were full of news. some speculation but a concrete commitment that the government has confirmed that people in care homes will now be able to meet a relative indoors and hold hands for the first time, for some of them, in nearly one year. do you suspect that this may be an attempt to sweeten the pill? from the other

indications, of course we do not know until borisjohnson says what the plans are, there is talk of a wholesale return to school in a few weeks as well full. i think it is more than sweetening the pill. it looks like the trend lines of hospitalisation and of death and of the our rate, those indicators are positive and quite steeply so. this appears to be not so much a consequence of vaccination, although that has been a success, but of social distancing measures. the vaccinations are also starting to make a difference and that will be a geometric progression as well, i think. so i think the government is in a sweet place here as long as the trendlines are good. i think they will get a lot of running room from the public. the public does not like stop start rules. but as long as things

seem to get better i think people are tolerant. the labour party focus groups, as keir starmer was trying to work out how to get purchase on boris johnson, we said we don't like you to attack the government we want you to work together but we don't think you guys would do any better anyway. i think there is a large baseline of ease, as long as the numbers keep going in the right direction i think the public will be ok. in this country, in the us and elsewhere. other countries where things are not as advanced it may be different. annalisa, thank you for being with us. vaccination has been a problem in much of continental europe typically have at least one governor in italy saying that he is looking to purchase vaccines of his own he is so frustrated by the slow place that makes slow pace and italy had a hellish start to the pandemic last spring. the man they used to call super

mario, mario druggie hasjust taken office. they called him that one decade ago during the financial crisis. how difficult a balancing act to he and other european leaders face in using lockdown? it european leaders face in using lockdown?— lockdown? it is a gigantic challenge because - lockdown? it is a gigantic challenge because we - lockdown? it is a gigantici challenge because we are lockdown? it is a gigantic i challenge because we are all in the same situation, basically trying — the same situation, basically trying to— the same situation, basically trying to understand when is the right— trying to understand when is the right moment to ease restrictions, when it is safe and — restrictions, when it is safe and at _ restrictions, when it is safe and at the same time we have this race against time to vaccinate most of the population, especially the most vulnerable. of course, the answer_ vulnerable. of course, the answer cannot be everyone on their_ answer cannot be everyone on their own — answer cannot be everyone on their own. so governor benneteau is now backtracking. he tried — benneteau is now backtracking. he tried to buy vaccines on his own_ he tried to buy vaccines on his own and — he tried to buy vaccines on his own and it _ he tried to buy vaccines on his own and it looks like it was possibly— own and it looks like it was possibly fraud, a con. we did not know_ possibly fraud, a con. we did not know whether vaccines were coming — not know whether vaccines were coming from. so the entire

episode _ coming from. so the entire episode highlighted how, in the end. _ episode highlighted how, in the end. it — episode highlighted how, in the end, it was the right decision to try— end, it was the right decision to try and _ end, it was the right decision to try and do it at an eu level. _ to try and do it at an eu level. to _ to try and do it at an eu level, to avoid exactly this kind — level, to avoid exactly this kind of— level, to avoid exactly this kind of situation in which pe0ple. _ kind of situation in which people, understandably, they are dealing with methods of life and _ are dealing with methods of life and death so they want the vaccines — life and death so they want the vaccines. the answers cannot be to go— vaccines. the answers cannot be to go and — vaccines. the answers cannot be to go and get them wherever you can because they may not be safe — can because they may not be safe in— can because they may not be safe. in fact it looks like the government of benneteau was ready— government of benneteau was ready to — government of benneteau was ready to pay five times the price _ ready to pay five times the price. you understand that having _ price. you understand that having a _ price. you understand that having a black market for vaccines, everybody on their own — vaccines, everybody on their own would be a recipe for disaster— own would be a recipe for disaster and it would be unsafe for the — disaster and it would be unsafe for the people. so the disaster and it would be unsafe forthe people. so the eu disaster and it would be unsafe for the people. so the eu took the right— for the people. so the eu took the right choice in trying to centralise and keep a tab on this, — centralise and keep a tab on this, avoiding a vaccine war across_ this, avoiding a vaccine war across the _ this, avoiding a vaccine war across the regions and

countries in europe. the only problem _ countries in europe. the only problem is, as everybody the eu is not a country and it does — the eu is not a country and it does not have a national health service — does not have a national health service so— does not have a national health service so it has to provide vaccines— service so it has to provide vaccines to 27 countries, to more — vaccines to 27 countries, to more than _ vaccines to 27 countries, to more than 400 million people. it more than 400 million people. it cannot— more than 400 million people. it cannot be done overnight so there — it cannot be done overnight so there are _ it cannot be done overnight so there are logistical problems. as you — there are logistical problems. as you say, the arrival of super _ as you say, the arrival of super mario at the head of the itaiiah — super mario at the head of the italian government, that does bring — italian government, that does bring with itself consequences that go— bring with itself consequences that go far beyond italy because he is seen as an extremely capable manager. he managed, after all, the european central bank with 19 centrai— european central bank with 19 central banks involved. he has solid experience. _ central banks involved. he has solid experience. and - central banks involved. he has solid experience. and he - central banks involved. he has solid experience. and he is - solid experience. and he is also managing as many

parties as he tries to cohere together the coalition. now, annalisa spoke about the risk of a vaccine war. in a sense we are starting to see worrying signs of that globally, aren't we, in terms of the stresses that this causes. emmanuel macron on friday was saying that if the british and the americans and the europeans don't give vaccines now to help health workers in africa, the african countries will look to china and russia and they will get vaccines that way and any confidence or faith they have in the western way will be evaporated.— in the western way will be evaorated. . ., , ., ., , evaporated. and that is already happening- _ evaporated. and that is already happening. we have _ happening. we have heard for weeks now about vaccine - happening. we have heard forl weeks now about vaccine deals that china _ weeks now about vaccine deals that china is _ weeks now about vaccine deals that china is striking _ weeks now about vaccine deals that china is striking with, - that china is striking with, first— that china is striking with, first starting _ that china is striking with, first starting with - that china is striking with, first starting with regional| first starting with regional players _ first starting with regional players near _ first starting with regional players near china - first starting with regional players near china but- first starting with regional players near china but ofl players near china but of course _ players near china but of course china _ players near china but of course china has- players near china but of course china has been. players near china but of. course china has been given vaccihe _ course china has been given vaccine offering, _ course china has been given vaccine offering, offering. course china has been given| vaccine offering, offering big vaccihe — vaccine offering, offering big vaccine deals _ vaccine offering, offering big vaccine deals for— vaccine offering, offering big vaccine deals for several- vaccine offering, offering big. vaccine deals for several weeks now vaccine deals for several weeks how ever — vaccine deals for several weeks how ever since _ vaccine deals for several weeks now ever since they— vaccine deals for several weeks now ever since they were - vaccine deals for several weeks now ever since they were able i now ever since they were able to announce _ now ever since they were able to announce that _ now ever since they were able to announce that they- now ever since they were able to announce that they had - now ever since they were able l to announce that they had three workable —

to announce that they had three workable vaccines— to announce that they had three workable vaccines to _ to announce that they had three workable vaccines to there - to announce that they had three workable vaccines to there are i workable vaccines to there are some — workable vaccines to there are some challenges— workable vaccines to there are some challenges with - workable vaccines to there are some challenges with those i some challenges with those vaccines— some challenges with those vaccines and _ some challenges with those vaccines and they _ some challenges with those vaccines and they have - some challenges with those | vaccines and they have been questions _ vaccines and they have been questions about— vaccines and they have been questions about the - vaccines and they have been questions about the release| vaccines and they have been . questions about the release of data _ questions about the release of data from _ questions about the release of data from phase _ questions about the release of data from phase three - questions about the release of data from phase three trials . data from phase three trials from — data from phase three trials from those _ data from phase three trials from those chinese - data from phase three trials from those chinese made i from those chinese made vaccines— from those chinese made vaccines but— from those chinese made vaccines but of— from those chinese made vaccines but of course - from those chinese made - vaccines but of course vaccine diplomacy— vaccines but of course vaccine diplomacy is _ vaccines but of course vaccine diplomacy is alive _ vaccines but of course vaccine diplomacy is alive and - vaccines but of course vaccine diplomacy is alive and well. vaccines but of course vaccine diplomacy is alive and well in| diplomacy is alive and well in beijing — diplomacy is alive and well in beijing what _ diplomacy is alive and well in beijing. what is _ diplomacy is alive and well in beijing. what is interesting l diplomacy is alive and well in beijing. what is interesting aj beijing. what is interesting a some — beijing. what is interesting a some of— beijing. what is interesting a some of the _ beijing. what is interesting a some of the countries - beijing. what is interesting a some of the countries that. beijing. what is interesting a i some of the countries that have said look. — some of the countries that have said look, we're _ some of the countries that have said look, we're not— some of the countries that have said look, we're not going - some of the countries that have said look, we're not going to. said look, we're not going to lrother— said look, we're not going to bother with— said look, we're not going to bother with vaccines. - said look, we're not going to bother with vaccines. we - said look, we're not going to. bother with vaccines. we know we won't — bother with vaccines. we know we won't get _ bother with vaccines. we know we won't get them _ bother with vaccines. we know we won't get them for - bother with vaccines. we know we won't get them for some i we won't get them for some time — we won't get them for some time. vietnam was one of. we won't get them for some - time. vietnam was one of those countries — time. vietnam was one of those countries that— time. vietnam was one of those countries that has _ time. vietnam was one of those countries that has done - countries that has done quite a good job at— countries that has done quite a good job at keeping _ countries that has done quite a good job at keeping the - countries that has done quite a good job at keeping the virus l good job at keeping the virus at a — good job at keeping the virus at a low— good job at keeping the virus at a low level— good job at keeping the virus at a low level and _ good job at keeping the virusl at a low level and maintaining mounted _ at a low level and maintaining mounted they _ at a low level and maintaining mounted they threw- at a low level and maintaining mounted they threw up - at a low level and maintaining mounted they threw up their. mounted they threw up their hands — mounted they threw up their hands early— mounted they threw up their hands early and _ mounted they threw up their hands early and said - mounted they threw up their hands early and said we're . mounted they threw up their i hands early and said we're not even _ hands early and said we're not even going _ hands early and said we're not even going to _ hands early and said we're not even going to try— hands early and said we're not even going to try to _ hands early and said we're not even going to try to content. even going to try to content for any— even going to try to content for any of— even going to try to content for any of these _ even going to try to content for any of these expensive i for any of these expensive vaccines _ for any of these expensive vaccines. they— for any of these expensive vaccines. theyjust - for any of these expensive - vaccines. theyjust announced vaccines. they just announced this week— vaccines. theyjust announced this week that _ vaccines. theyjust announced this week that they _ vaccines. theyjust announced this week that they are - vaccines. theyjust announcedl this week that they are getting 30 million _ this week that they are getting 30 million doses _ this week that they are getting 30 million doses through - this week that they are getting 30 million doses through the l 30 million doses through the kovacs— 30 million doses through the kovacs scheme, _ 30 million doses through the kovacs scheme, that - 30 million doses through the kovacs scheme, that who i 30 million doses through the i kovacs scheme, that who run scheme — kovacs scheme, that who run scheme to— kovacs scheme, that who run scheme to give _ kovacs scheme, that who run scheme to give vaccines - kovacs scheme, that who run scheme to give vaccines to - kovacs scheme, that who run| scheme to give vaccines to the world's— scheme to give vaccines to the world's 20% _ scheme to give vaccines to the world's 20% most _ scheme to give vaccines to the world's 20% most vulnerable. i world's 20% most vulnerable. the message _ world's 20% most vulnerable. the message from _ world's 20% most vulnerable. the message from vietnam . world's 20% most vulnerable. the message from vietnam is that— the message from vietnam is that you — the message from vietnam is that you can— the message from vietnam is that you can sit _ the message from vietnam is that you can sit tight - the message from vietnam is that you can sit tight and - the message from vietnam is that you can sit tight and waitj that you can sit tight and wait and you — that you can sit tight and wait and you will— that you can sit tight and wait and you will get _ that you can sit tight and wait and you will get vaccines - and you will get vaccines eventually, _ and you will get vaccines eventually, you - and you will get vaccines eventually, you do- and you will get vaccines eventually, you do not. and you will get vaccines i eventually, you do not have and you will get vaccines - eventually, you do not have to id eventually, you do not have to go through _ eventually, you do not have to go through the _ eventually, you do not have to go through the beijing - eventually, you do not have to go through the beijing route. i go through the beijing route. and that _ go through the beijing route. and that raises _ go through the beijing route. and that raises an _ go through the beijing route. | and that raises an interesting question. whether one of the

consequences of this pandemic is that parts of the world will emerge sooner than others and that a different sort of global competition, both political and economic will come from that uneven emergence from the restrictions of the pandemic. i restrictions of the pandemic. i think you are right and i think it is inevitable. like any gigantic event both health and economic, this is going to have an effect on things will be different in the end. the idea, i think it is almost old—fashioned geopolitics that is getting the western leaders now to make a big noise about getting vaccines out to developing countries, but china and russia are already far advanced in this and i think we have to get used to the fact that china, in particular, has a lot of cards to play and it will be playing them in a sophisticated fashion and if it is putting vaccines into people's arms, who is going to

complain?— complain? let's talk about a country that _ complain? let's talk about a country that has _ complain? let's talk about a country that has had - complain? let's talk about a country that has had its - complain? let's talk about a l country that has had its share of headlines over the last few weeks, peaceful protest inside myanmar. diplomatic pressure and sanctions against literary leaders from the outside. and on friday, the first recorded death, a woman in the capital city shot in the head as police dispersed a crowd there. can any of this restore civilian authority? it was never really control, that was extinguished by the army three weeks ago. one forgets how quickly events move but it was only 12 days afterjoe biden took office as us president to the first significant foreign policy challenge he has faced. how realistic is it, the aspiration expressed not least by his secretary of state anthony lincoln, that myanmar should return to civilian control? i think the statement

the secretary of state was like those — the secretary of state was like those made about nato. the old us is— those made about nato. the old us is back — those made about nato. the old us is back. we will put human rights — us is back. we will put human rights in — us is back. we will put human rights in our foreign policy, we will— rights in our foreign policy, we will notjust rights in our foreign policy, we will not just say nothing when — we will not just say nothing when bad things happen to democracy as would have happened in previous times. but in practical— happened in previous times. but in practical terms, there really— in practical terms, there really is _ in practical terms, there really is not a lot that the us has leveraged to accomplish here~ — has leveraged to accomplish here. trade with myanmar is small. — here. trade with myanmar is small, the trade between myanmar and china, the 1200 mile — myanmar and china, the 1200 mile border is much lighter. china — mile border is much lighter. china has— mile border is much lighter. china has different interests in consorting with the generals and the — in consorting with the generals and the us does there are some old sanctions but there have already— old sanctions but there have already been sanctions. sol think— already been sanctions. sol think this _ already been sanctions. sol think this is symbolic more than — think this is symbolic more than anything else. i think the interest~~~ _ than anything else. i think the interest... you see the young people — interest... you see the young people using the internet and using — people using the internet and using social media and other kinds — using social media and other kinds of— using social media and other kinds of social protest to signal—

kinds of social protest to signal that this is not your parents _ signal that this is not your parents kind of demonstrations but, _ parents kind of demonstrations but, still, the government has so many tools of repression and after— so many tools of repression and after all. — so many tools of repression and after all, aung san suu kyi was under— after all, aung san suu kyi was under house arrest for 15 years _ under house arrest for 15 years i_ under house arrest for 15 years. i think we must expect a very— years. i think we must expect a very long — years. i think we must expect a very long and messy attempt to try and — very long and messy attempt to try and put pressure on them to accommodate their own complex domestic— accommodate their own complex domestic political forces. annalisa, geoff mentions aung san suu kyi there and she is a political prisoner there, perhaps seen differently than she was the first time around, much criticism of her willingness to defend the military over its suppression of the muslim minority rohingya. , many of whom are now in neighbouring bangladesh. do you think that affects, at all, the calculation made in european capitals about treat what has happened in myanmar? i treat what has happened in myanmar?— treat what has happened in m anmar? .,, ., .,, myanmar? i hope not. i hope not. of course _ myanmar? i hope not. i hope not. of course there -

myanmar? i hope not. i hope not. of course there has - myanmar? i hope not. i hope| not. of course there has been serious damage done to the reputation of aung san suu kyi and it is very sad because she was a symbol well beyond myanmar. but i would not expect world diplomacy to take that into consideration. after all, what matters today more than ever is the respect of democracy and she has had a resounding mandate from the electorate to leave the country. and this must be defended and upheld, regardless of what, probably, serious flaws in her leadership at times. ., ., ., times. celia, china referred to the coop- _ times. celia, china referred to the coop- the _ times. celia, china referred to the coup. the myanmar- times. celia, china referred to i the coup. the myanmar military said it was not a coup, they said it was not a coup, they said it was a corrective for a defective election that they said was fraudulent. the chinese called it a major cabinet reshuffle. that's a bit

like calling the english war of the roses a bit of a small family dispute. is it possible that this is actually a coup that this is actually a coup that was approved in china? that china may have seen this as something that was beneficial from as something that was beneficialfrom its beneficial from its perspective? there have been questions raised _ there have been questions raised about that, but i don't get that feeling, because the chinese — get that feeling, because the chinese ambassador to myanmar came out yesterday and said, look, we had family relationships with both sides, with aung san suu kyi's party and also _ with aung san suu kyi's party and also with the military. frankly— and also with the military. frankly china has always had a very— frankly china has always had a very complicated relationship with myanmar. in this case, i don't think china is really heavy— don't think china is really heavy about this and the ambassador said very clearly, he said — ambassador said very clearly, he said the situation is absolutely not what we wanted to see — absolutely not what we wanted to see -- _ absolutely not what we wanted to see. —— happy. china is me and _ to see. —— happy. china is me and mys— to see. —— happy. china is me and my's largest trading partner, of course they are very— partner, of course they are very important, but myanmar also — very important, but myanmar also needs to think about its biggest _ also needs to think about its biggest investors, and in the region— biggest investors, and in the region its— biggest investors, and in the region its biggest investors are japan, thailand, singapore.

those _ are japan, thailand, singapore. those are — are japan, thailand, singapore. those are some of the countries it will— those are some of the countries it will have — those are some of the countries it will have to start paying attention to, and those military generals. this is not the myanmar of decades passed, this is— the myanmar of decades passed, this is a — the myanmar of decades passed, this is a myanmar much more integrated into the global economy. and so if the generals really— economy. and so if the generals really want to ignore the calls of many — really want to ignore the calls of many of their own people, three quarters of civil servants are on strike at the moment— servants are on strike at the moment in myanmar, if they want to push— moment in myanmar, if they want to push on— moment in myanmar, if they want to push on with this and try to impose — to push on with this and try to impose their own ruling they will have _ impose their own ruling they will have to think about the region— will have to think about the region in— will have to think about the region in general, notjust china _ region in general, not 'ust china. . , . region in general, not 'ust china. ., , ., china. that is a powerful oint, china. that is a powerful point. isn't _ china. that is a powerful point, isn't it? _ china. that is a powerful point, isn't it? you - china. that is a powerful point, isn't it? you have| china. that is a powerful- point, isn't it? you have made much of your oppression —— reputation as a documentary filmmaker. this time we are seeing something we never saw during years of literary oppression in myanmar, we are seeing images and pictures, extraordinarily powerful ones, those flotillas of small boats, for example, marshaled in protest, the building is covered in the colours of bentonite's party. how much difference cannot make in maintaining international interest in myanmar? —— can

that make. i interest in myanmar? -- can that make-— that make. i think it was durin: that make. i think it was during the _ that make. i think it was during the first - that make. i think it was during the first world i that make. i think it was i during the first world war that make. i think it was - during the first world war that virginia woolf saw the photographs coming out of four and said, we will never have for ever again because now that people can see that, we will just stop it, because we can see it. unfortunately it didn't work that way and it doesn't work that way and it doesn't work that way now, but images and footage still has extraordinary importance. the problem is that with the different interpretation of the media system, with social media, with the internet, with facebook, we are seeing enormous controversy now between facebook and australia, images and news are not any more kind of delivered to the people with authority and credibility. so there is a risk that even with those images

that even with those images that have an extraordinary potential to wake people up to the reality of what is happening, when they get dispersed into the noise and the confusion, now, with technology, we also know that with deepfakes you can take them. so there is growing distrust in what you see. so i think that your question points to a very fundamental problem of our times, which is information on how you can transmit those really meaningful images of the horrors of the things that are happening to wake people up from their slumber. jeii, happening to wake people up from their slumber. jeff, that raises a really _ from their slumber. jeff, that raises a really interesting - raises a really interesting point in relation to what you said at the start of the section about human rights. lots of people saw images as part of the case for suggesting that war crimes were committed in the suppression of the muslim minority in myanmar. i spoke to a former head of the british army who said he wondered if the item been a partial motive for the coup, that the military were worried

that the military were worried that maybe the civilian government, when it had full power, would be willing to hand them over to international justice. is there an appetite in america now underjoe biden or nationaljustice to take its course? —— international justice. i course? -- international justice-— course? -- international 'ustice. ~ ., , justice. i think as always, there is _ justice. i think as always, there is more _ justice. i think as always, there is more of- justice. i think as always, there is more of an - justice. i think as always, i there is more of an appetite forjustice _ there is more of an appetite forjustice for— there is more of an appetite forjustice for 1's _ there is more of an appetite forjustice for 1's enemies . for justice for 1's enemies than _ for justice for 1's enemies than one's_ forjustice for 1's enemies than one's friends. - forjustice for 1's enemies than one's friends. the i forjustice for 1's enemies - than one's friends. the failure of the — than one's friends. the failure of the united _ than one's friends. the failure of the united states _ than one's friends. the failure of the united states to - than one's friends. the failure of the united states to be - than one's friends. the failure | of the united states to be part of the united states to be part of the — of the united states to be part of the international— of the united states to be part of the international criminal. of the international criminal court, — of the international criminal court, which _ of the international criminal court, which i _ of the international criminal court, which i think- of the international criminal court, which i think would . of the international criminall court, which i think would be very— court, which i think would be very difficult— court, which i think would be very difficult for— court, which i think would be very difficult for even - court, which i think would be very difficult for even a - very difficult for even a democratic— very difficult for even a i democratic administration very difficult for even a - democratic administration with human— democratic administration with human rights— democratic administration with human rights interests- democratic administration with human rights interests like - democratic administration with human rights interests like joe| human rights interests like joe biden's— human rights interests like joe biden's to _ human rights interests like joe biden's to try— human rights interests like joe biden's to try to _ human rights interests like joe biden's to try to return - human rights interests like joe biden's to try to return to, - biden's to try to return to, that— biden's to try to return to, that means _ biden's to try to return to, that means that _ biden's to try to return to, that means that i- biden's to try to return to, that means that i think- biden's to try to return to, that means that i think it. that means that i think it probably— that means that i think it probably will— that means that i think it probably will be - that means that i think it probably will be knots i that means that i think itj probably will be knots on serious _ probably will be knots on serious and _ probably will be knots on serious and attempt - probably will be knots on serious and attempt to l probably will be knots onl serious and attempt to try probably will be knots on - serious and attempt to try to link human— serious and attempt to try to link human rights— serious and attempt to try to link human rights back- serious and attempt to try to link human rights back into. link human rights back into foreign _ link human rights back into foreign policy— link human rights back into foreign policy more. - link human rights back into foreign policy more. —— - link human rights back intoj foreign policy more. —— not unserious _ foreign policy more. —— not unserious. but— foreign policy more. —— not unserious. but with - foreign policy more. —— not unserious. but with the - unserious. but with the usual caveats — unserious. but with the usual caveats and _ unserious. but with the usual caveats and hypocrisies - unserious. but with the usual caveats and hypocrisies that. caveats and hypocrisies that are always _ caveats and hypocrisies that are always involved - are always involved in this. i think it _ are always involved in this. i think it is _ are always involved in this. i think it is probably- are always involved in this. i think it is probably likely- are always involved in this. i think it is probably likely toi think it is probably likely to be think it is probably likely to he lletter— think it is probably likely to be better than— think it is probably likely to be better than not- think it is probably likely to be better than not doing i think it is probably likely toj be better than not doing it, but it— be better than not doing it, but it is— be better than not doing it, but it is never— be better than not doing it, but it is never going - be better than not doing it, but it is never going to- be better than not doing it,

but it is never going to be i but it is never going to be pure _ but it is never going to be pure or— but it is never going to be pure or the _ but it is never going to be pure or the soul- but it is never going to be pure or the soul or- but it is never going to be pure or the soul or even i but it is never going to be . pure or the soul or even the major— pure or the soul or even the major influence _ pure or the soul or even the major influence on - pure or the soul or even the major influence on what thej major influence on what the united _ major influence on what the united states— major influence on what the united states does. - major influence on what the united states does.- major influence on what the united states does. jeff, thank ou. united states does. jeff, thank you let's _ united states does. jeff, thank you- let's stay _ united states does. jeff, thank you. let's stay in _ united states does. jeff, thank you. let's stay in the _ united states does. jeff, thank you. let's stay in the region. i you. let's stay in the region. for almost 50 years myanmar was isolated internationally. the borders with china and russia have been shut for more than a year now. covid—i9, say the propagandist in pyongyang, have been kept out. it has still supplied a share of shots to poorer countries. south korea even claims it neighbour has tried to steal the intellectual property behind that. in a sense, some countries might feel a bit of sympathy if you did try that, because they are so frustrated they cannot produce the vaccines at home. but parking but thought, do we have any sense at the moment of just how fragile north korea is? i just how fragile north korea is? ~' ., just how fragile north korea is? ~ ., ., ., , ., is? i think north korea is a country — is? i think north korea is a country on _ is? i think north korea is a country on its _ is? i think north korea is a country on its knees - is? i think north korea is a country on its knees at - is? i think north korea is a country on its knees at the j country on its knees at the moment. it has often been said north korea a perfect storm at the moment. this is a country which even before covid—i9 hits the world, 40% of the

population was going hungry, seven out of ten babies were not getting the minimum amount of calories needed. that is according to the united nations. so north korea was one of the first countries to lockdown its borders with china. it did so in late january. and it has maintained that lockdown against its own interests, really. its major trading partner is of course china, just over the border. but we have seen trade with china dropping down 75%. presumably that is the official trade? there has always been, bluntly, sanctions as well, hasn't there?— bluntly, sanctions as well, hasn't there? absolutely. and this is a country _ hasn't there? absolutely. and this is a country which - this is a country which normally has a very porous border between china and north korea. that order, by all accounts, has been locked down. so we have sanctions, years and years of sanctions imposed by the united nations and regionally, we have the imposition of a quite strict covid lockdown, and we have some natural disasters that have in battering north korea, drought coupled with typhoons.

so kimjong—un drought coupled with typhoons. so kim jong—un appears to be drought coupled with typhoons. so kimjong—un appears to be in a difficult position, he has beenin a difficult position, he has been in powerfor nine years now but seems to be shovelling senior leaders more rapidly than ever. he appointed a new person to be in charge of the economy and then just last week he took that person out of power and said, you have not been doing enough. some targets are too high, some targets are too low. he seems to be floundering, he has apologised repeatedly to his own people for the economic missteps, where do we go from here? i think he will try to do whatever he can to get a vaccine but also to get some of those sanctions lifted.- those sanctions lifted. donald trum - those sanctions lifted. donald trump saw — those sanctions lifted. donald trump saw a _ those sanctions lifted. donald trump saw a attentional- those sanctions lifted. donald trump saw a attentional to i those sanctions lifted. donaldj trump saw a attentional to do something fresh with north korea. do you thinkjoe biden sees any kind of potential in north korea? i sees any kind of potential in north korea?— north korea? i think the potential— north korea? i think the potential for _ north korea? i think the potential for a _ north korea? i think the potential for a lot - north korea? i think the potential for a lot of - north korea? i think the - potential for a lot of trouble. i don't see what the grounds are for a _ i don't see what the grounds are for a big deal. _ i don't see what the grounds are for a big deal. the - i don't see what the grounds are for a big deal. the us i i don't see what the grounds i are for a big deal. the us holy grail— are for a big deal. the us holy grail for—

are for a big deal. the us holy grail for decades— are for a big deal. the us holy grail for decades was- grail for decades was denuclearisation - grail for decades was denuclearisation in l grail for decades was- denuclearisation in return for some — denuclearisation in return for some kind _ denuclearisation in return for some kind of— denuclearisation in return for some kind of lifting - denuclearisation in return for some kind of lifting of- some kind of lifting of sanctions _ some kind of lifting of sanctions in _ some kind of lifting of sanctions in terms - some kind of lifting of sanctions in terms ofl some kind of lifting of. sanctions in terms of the some kind of lifting of- sanctions in terms of the world economy _ sanctions in terms of the world economy i_ sanctions in terms of the world economy. i think— sanctions in terms of the world economy. i think the _ sanctions in terms of the world economy. i think the nuclear. economy. i think the nuclear programme _ economy. i think the nuclear programme is _ economy. i think the nuclear programme is too _ economy. i think the nuclear programme is too far- economy. i think the nuclear. programme is too far advanced, and the — programme is too far advanced, and the dependence _ programme is too far advanced, and the dependence of- programme is too far advanced, and the dependence of the - and the dependence of the regime _ and the dependence of the regime on _ and the dependence of the regime on the _ and the dependence of the regime on the nuclear- and the dependence of the - regime on the nuclear programme for its _ regime on the nuclear programme for its survival, _ regime on the nuclear programme for its survival, that _ regime on the nuclear programme for its survival, that is _ regime on the nuclear programme for its survival, that is just - for its survival, that isjust way— for its survival, that isjust way too _ for its survival, that isjust way too intense _ for its survival, that isjust way too intense to - for its survival, that isjust way too intense to think . for its survival, that is just . way too intense to think that might— way too intense to think that might be _ way too intense to think that might be possible. _ way too intense to think that might be possible. i- way too intense to think that might be possible. i think. way too intense to think that might be possible. i think iti might be possible. i think it is a — might be possible. i think it is a concern _ might be possible. i think it is a concern that _ might be possible. i think it is a concern that there - might be possible. i think iti is a concern that there might be sabre _ is a concern that there might be sabre rattling, _ is a concern that there might be sabre rattling, as- is a concern that there might be sabre rattling, as there i is a concern that there might i be sabre rattling, as there has been _ be sabre rattling, as there has been before, _ be sabre rattling, as there has been before, in— be sabre rattling, as there has been before, in order- be sabre rattling, as there has been before, in order to- be sabre rattling, as there has been before, in order to get. been before, in order to get attention— been before, in order to get attention from _ been before, in order to get attention from the - been before, in order to get attention from the west - been before, in order to get attention from the west and been before, in order to get. attention from the west and try to break— attention from the west and try to break sanctions. _ attention from the west and try to break sanctions. it _ attention from the west and try to break sanctions. it is - to break sanctions. it is interesting _ to break sanctions. it is interesting that- to break sanctions. it is interesting that one - to break sanctions. it is interesting that one ofl interesting that one of the good ways north - interesting that one of the - good ways north korea is now making money is computer. good ways north korea is now- making money is computer fraud, which _ making money is computer fraud, which doesn't _ making money is computer fraud, which doesn't require _ making money is computer fraud, which doesn't require the - which doesn't require the infrastructure _ which doesn't require the infrastructure of- which doesn't require the infrastructure of old - which doesn't require the infrastructure of old —— l infrastructure of old —— old—fashioned - infrastructure of old ——| old—fashioned sanctions busting, _ old—fashioned sanctions busting, they— old—fashioned sanctions busting, they are - old—fashioned sanctions busting, they are quite i busting, they are quite effective _ busting, they are quite effective at— busting, they are quite effective at it, - busting, they are quite effective at it, they. busting, they are quitej effective at it, they are stealing _ effective at it, they are stealing from - effective at it, they are stealing from central. effective at it, they are - stealing from central banks, atm — stealing from central banks, atm networks, _ stealing from central banks, atm networks, currency- stealing from central banks, . atm networks, currency trading networks. — atm networks, currency trading networks. they— atm networks, currency trading networks, they have _ atm networks, currency trading networks, they have to - atm networks, currency trading networks, they have to spend . networks, they have to spend the money, _ networks, they have to spend the money, but _ networks, they have to spend the money, but the _ networks, they have to spend the money, but the nuclear. the money, but the nuclear programme _ the money, but the nuclear programme appears - the money, but the nuclear programme appears to - the money, but the nuclear programme appears to be i the money, but the nuclear- programme appears to be robust and even — programme appears to be robust and even though _ programme appears to be robust and even though it _ programme appears to be robust and even though it does - programme appears to be robust and even though it does seem i programme appears to be robust and even though it does seem to be a _ and even though it does seem to be a perfect _ and even though it does seem to be a perfect storm, _ and even though it does seem to be a perfect storm, there - be a perfect storm, there doesn't _ be a perfect storm, there doesn't seem _ be a perfect storm, there doesn't seem to - be a perfect storm, there doesn't seem to be i be a perfect storm, there doesn't seem to be any. be a perfect storm, there i doesn't seem to be any graceful

landing — doesn't seem to be any graceful landing is— doesn't seem to be any graceful landing. is there _ doesn't seem to be any graceful landing. is there a _ doesn't seem to be any graceful landing. is there a spring, i doesn't seem to be any graceful landing. is there a spring, no. i landing. is there a spring, no. is landing. is there a spring, no. is there — landing. is there a spring, no. is there going _ landing. is there a spring, no. is there going to _ landing. is there a spring, no. is there going to be _ landing. is there a spring, no. is there going to be some i landing. is there a spring, no. | is there going to be some kind of effort to make _ is there going to be some kind of effort to make the - is there going to be some kind of effort to make the rest i is there going to be some kind of effort to make the rest of i of effort to make the rest of something using nuclear- diplomacy? that seems more likely — diplomacy? that seems more likel . , , ., likely. this is not the most stable part _ likely. this is not the most stable part of _ likely. this is not the most stable part of the - likely. this is not the most stable part of the world i likely. this is not the most. stable part of the world that the best of times, and there are those among china's neighbours who think it is doing its best to stir things up, with its actions around the south china sea, with its rhetoric towards taiwan. do you see much changing in the region in the nearfuture? before christmas you are talking about the possibility of an invasion of taiwan, well, china would see it as an invasion, it says it is part of china anyway, but quite a lot the role disagrees. i think this is a region that really has all its eyes on washington at the moment. because we have not quite seen howjoe biden's strategy for the region might play out. he has a lot of people who were in office in obama's time, he has brought many of those same people on the team to come and work with him. the idea that,

as he has said, he will try to unite with his allies, unite with other world leaders, other democracies and like—minded countries, in order to put pressure on china, that could really change the region, but how will beijing react to that idea? i think a lot of players in the region, taiwan included, are really looking to see how much of the trump administration's policies will be carried over through the biden years, and how much of the tone will really change withjoe biden in office. however much the world changes, for now at least the world still waits to see what washington will do. we will wait to see ourselves. let me ask one final thought. we are up ask one final thought. we are up to almost one year since the first lockdown is begun. a tip from each of you, briefly, the one thing that has kept you going during the pandemic, during those lockdowns, lisa first? ., , ., .,

first? tiramisu! italian cake, which can — first? tiramisu! italian cake, which can be _ first? tiramisu! italian cake, which can be very _ first? tiramisu! italian cake, which can be very easily i first? tiramisu! italian cake, | which can be very easily done at home, it takes a little time and it makes everybody happy. so you can do it in a kind of kid friendly version, you can do for the grown—ups with a bit more room on the bottom. highly recommended. —— rum on the bottom. it has cheered us up. i think we know what you are saying. just? rfain think we know what you are saying- just?— think we know what you are saying. just? gin and soda has been my new _ saying. just? gin and soda has been my new reform, - saying. just? gin and soda has been my new reform, rather. been my new reform, rather than gin and tonic, less calories and — gin and tonic, less calories and therefore more - gin and tonic, less calories l and therefore more survival. gin and tonic, less calories i and therefore more survival. i and therefore more survival. always notice that people and therefore more survival." always notice that people would have a full gin and ask for a low—fat tonic, but it is often the gin that is the real problem. some great regional gins around the world, by the people are improvising distilleries of their own in lockdown. celia? i have been planning a series of trips. i don't know when i'm going to take — don't know when i'm going to take them, but i want to go back— take them, but i want to go back to _ take them, but i want to go back to india to see friends, i

want — back to india to see friends, i want to— back to india to see friends, i want to go— back to india to see friends, i want to go on a big backpacking trip, _ want to go on a big backpacking trip, i— want to go on a big backpacking trip, i like — want to go on a big backpacking trip, i like planning trips so that— trip, i like planning trips so that is what i have been doing in lockdown, tojust remind myself that one day this will be over _ myself that one day this will be over. ., �* be over. one day it will. and we are over _ be over. one day it will. and we are over now. _ be over. one day it will. and we are over now. dateline i we are over now. dateline london for this week. do join gita and her guests at the same time next weekend. for now, have a good week. pa rt part one of the weekend was very wet across western parts of the country, localised flooding in places and a number of local warnings issued. part two looks better, it should stay mild and we will see drier and brighter weather, including

in western areas. still some rain around which will start up a small south—eastern areas, generally light and patchy, working west into parts of wales, the south—west and the midlands, perhaps turning heavier later in the day. a few blustery showers for western scotla nd blustery showers for western scotland but otherwise a good deal of sunshine across northern areas and the sunshine appearing across the south—east, where it will be mild indeed. as we head through sunday night, it stays cloudy. pretty damn through parts of england and wales, our rain could be heavy at times, drier across the south—east and some clear skies in the north—west as well. generally a very mild night to come. into monday and tuesday, the new week, northern and western areas should see rain at times, further south and east it will be dry and very mild.

welcome to bbc news — i'm james reynolds. our top stories: an engine on a passenger plane bursts into flames above the us state of colorado, scattering debris on to homes below. passengers describe the heartstopping moment you could just feel it like, boom! you could hear it and we started shaking. gunshots mark the escalation of violence in myanmar. the military faces mounting international condemnation — after reports that two protesters are shot dead. unrest on the streets of barcelona as thousands of people protest for a fifth night

against the jailing of a rapper for controversial tweets.