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tv   Dateline London  BBC News  February 21, 2021 4:30pm-5:01pm GMT

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lots of things were coming in, like, "there's embryo, - foetus or something, or pork inside." - ..and the doctors fighting to defeat disinformation... it's almost as if we're fighting two pandemics. the first pandemic is the viral pandemic, the second pandemic is the misinformation. it's four days since the government began its vaccine roll—out, and i'm meeting a woman called joanna who told me on facebook she doesn't want the jab. joanna, hello. hello. lovely to meet you. wearing a mask on public transport is compulsory, butjoanna refuses.
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i hate them. i honestly hate them. i don't believe in wearing them. they don't work. where's your evidence? she also believes the vaccine is unnecessary. today she'sjoining a protest march in brighton. what would make you trust the vaccine? nothing. even if they said... if they said, "this vaccine'si perfectly safe," and i heard that from all sources, i i would still not take it. maybe i'm being a bit blase about this coronavirus, - but ijust don't feel at risk. i only know of three - people that have had it. infections were rising in the south of england as the protesters gathered. i thought there'd be - more people in costume, because i was looking for a bit of a carnival feel to this. - they told us when the vaccine comes everything will go back to normal. around 250 have turned out, demanding an end to coronavirus restrictions.
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they include so—called anti—vaxxers, those who say the vaccine is dangerous, others that it's a form of state control. some also claim the pandemic isn't real, though at the time of this protest, officially, 63,000 people had died with coronavirus. you are as complicit as this government for your lies! bbc, go away! we don't get our voices heard, so a protest like that is good. i but for someone who has lost a loved one during the pandemic, you could understand why they might feel quite upset seeing that. how do they know they actually did die from the virus? - l it's an illness that doesn't kill. a very high percentage of people. |and i'm thinking, "why on earth| should i have something injected in me just to get my life back to normal?" - how dare the government spin that whole thing. - you know, people are
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listening to what we say. people are realising that we are actually telling the truth, and we've got a point, and that's what we want — we just want freedom. either we want a free society or we don't — there is no in between. one of the organisers of the brighton protest is louise creffield. she's used social media to help promote a series of demonstrations across the uk. and i personally am not going to stop until we are completely and utterly freed. her group, save our rights uk, has also shared anti—vax messaging online. meghan is a scientist who helps analyse coronavirus tests carried out in hospitals. she's also louise creffield's cousin, and is so worried she contacted me. it's been a roller—coaster, to be honest with you, to be strongly morally and professionally opposed to something that a loved one is doing.
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it's so concerning and it's so dangerous, and it's hard for people to make a measured choice when one group of people are being incredibly loud and people are now having to wade through a lot of information to get accurate facts and accurate figures. louise creffield says save our rights uk does "not encourage people to not take the vaccine", and encourages "people to ensure they're fully informed and that they maintain their freedom of choice about whether they want to take the vaccine or not." most people in the uk want the vaccine. anti—vaxxers are a committed minority and this is what they want to deter. 0n the day i visit the nhs vaccine centre in nottingham, most of the people getting the jabs are healthcare workers. i think there's been over 1,000 people here today. 0bviously desperate to have
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the vaccine to protect themselves. how do you feel now that you've had the vaccine? i'm very glad to have the vaccine today. yeah, it's a relief. pleased. i work in healthcare so it's kind of nice to know that i've had it now. dr turner had a leading role in setting up trials for the oxford astrazeneca vaccine, and says he's heard many understandable concerns from people as they prepared for theirjabs. some people do have questions. they'd like to know how the vaccine works, what's actually in the vaccine, what the difference is between the licensed vaccines. people also have questions about their allergies and whether the vaccine is right for them. some people are so cautious it can make them reluctant to have the vaccine. is that any better? helen is one of them. i appreciate there's been hundreds of thousands of pounds and hours and hours and hours of people lives testing this vaccine. i get that.
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ijust don't have the broken down information. for helen, the virus has already had a devastating effect on herfamily. her fatherjohn contracted covid—i9 in hospital. he later had the firstjab, but was already so ill he died. he was a great dad. he loved me and my sister to bits, and alwaysjust wanted what made us happy. despite her loss, helen is still apprehensive about having the jab herself. i don't want a load of numbers, i'm not number—orientated — i don't want percentages or anything like that. plain english, "this is what we've done, this is what it contains, these are the side effects, this is what you can expect from it." after we spoke, helen looked online and found nhs information about potential common side effects which include having a sore arm, fever and nausea.
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it's not unexpected for people to have questions. i don't think we need to label it with a name. i think people will obviously want to know what they're getting and why they're getting it. and if our doctors and nurses can tell them that information then i think they can persuade them to come forward. targeting people already hesitant about the vaccine, anti—vaxxers aim to exploit this nervousness by sharing false claims online. music meet rosemary and donald. they met at a ballroom dancing class more than 60 years ago. now in their 80s, they were on the government's vaccine priority list. then they received this on whatsapp. do not take this vaccine. this vaccine is dangerous. this pandemic is a fraud. rosemary was so worried she emailed me at the bbc. so this is the video that you'd seen. let's have a watch.
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the covid—i9 vaccine is not proven safe or effective. it left me in...quite a lot of anxiety, because it sounded so real and the people were so plausible and they were named as clinicians and doctors, surgeons. i felt a bit sick actually, when i looked at it, and i felt a sort of knot in my stomach. i thought, "this is horrible and ijust don't know whether it's true or whether it's false." taking a closer look, i find that the video has been removed from youtube, facebook and twitter, but is still being passed around on personal messaging services like whatsapp. it's called "ask the experts".
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there is no medical emergency — it is a fake pandemic. _ this vaccine could change your genetic blueprint, your genetic code, your dna, forever. i wonder, why did gates and his conspiracy theorists spend billions to develop vaccines that can sterilise men, women and even their unborn children? these claims are false. disinformation, slickly produced to prey on fears. i'd say that the video is quite clever in that wanting to promote your own anxieties and fears and exaggerating them way beyond belief, with no scientific basis. the real danger is to people perhaps who have in fact got the most to lose by not having this vaccine and face the most severe threats from mortality and death from covid but also from long—term illness from covid. the ask the experts video sowed doubt in rosemary's mind about getting the vaccine.
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if the surgery phones now, what do i do? i don't know whether i should go ahead and have it or put it off. butjust how influential can a video like this one be? hi, russell — can you hear me? to find out, we posted online looking for people unsure about having the jab to take part in an experiment. is that better? yeah, much better. all with a range of concerns. i'm very, very, very wary of this because of the rush, _ because there's no actual proof that it works _ the information the government give and the way they gave it was, "this is what we've decided and this is what's best for you," and i don't like that attitude. every time i do a google search on "covid vaccine" or "covid vaccine and fertility" or "the facts of covid vaccine," it literally changes so often and it is quite overwhelming.
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all this under the watchful eye of professor smeeth, who's studied the findings of the vaccine trials. hello there. i'm dr liam smeeth, i'm a gp. i'm also the head of epidemiology at london school of hygiene and tropical medicine. eight people agreed to view the video. material containing the truth about the alleged disease and the vaccine is banned. the vaccine has not been proven safe or effective. i don't trust this vaccine. some begin to be influenced... what's your reaction to that? i thought at first, i "are these actors? "is thisjust a sham?", you know, "is this fake news?" _ and, as i went on, - i realised they were real. do you feel you can trust the video? i feel that i could trust some of them, yeah. for them to say that it's not true and that the vaccine is dangerous, i do trust them because they're in the profession. it goes on for 27 minutes —
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its message, unrelenting. the kind of non—stop repeat of the same message, the same message, the same message, it's really coming at it as a kind of campaign to really get people to buy into this anti—scientific messages, anti—vaccine message. but i think it's tremendously damaging. it's like being hit over- the head a number of times. for half an hour. i feel like i've been brainwashed by people who i don't even - know if they're doctors, presumably they are. l i hope they are. some watching the video... there is no worldwide pandemic for covid—i9. ..saw it as self—defeating. if these people are saying that the virus isn't real, then i'm less inclined to believe them that the vaccine is dangerous. but will it deter any of them from having the vaccine themselves? i'll reveal the results of our experiment later.
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with more than 15 million people now having had theirfirstjab, what about everyone else? a survey for panorama suggests that across all age groups, the vast majority want the vaccine. but more than a third of 18—34—year—olds said they would not have or were unsure about having the jab. and younger people are the most active on social media. it's going to change our dna. it's going to be altering what makes us human. my colleagues in bbc monitoring track what's being shared online. the vaccine is going to kill millions. social media use has increased across the board during the pandemic. but we've discovered a huge spike in followers of accounts promoting anti—vax claims. on facebook, anti—vaccination pages grew by i9% in 2020, from nearly 5 million page likes
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to almost 6 million. twitter accounts promoting anti—vax content that we analysed had almost tripled their followers in the past year. instagram was up too. 0n instagram alone, major anti—vaccination accounts grew nearly fivefold in 2020, reaching over 4 million followers. in the past 12 months, the anti—vaccination community has been given a real big boost online. instagram is used by more than 30 million people in the uk and a third are aged between 25 and 34. the vast majority are yet to be called for the jab. 26—year—old munim from norwich is an avid instagram user.
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do you ever think there's a point when you might decide that you do want the vaccine? no. no, not at all. why do you feel so sure about it? just because i'm young, i'm fit, i'm healthy, like, i don't feel like i need the vaccine. some people might say that it's selfish that you don't want the vaccine because even though you're young and healthy, you could get it and you could pass it on to someone else. what would be your response to someone saying that? my response to that is i don't really trust the vaccine. that's why i wouldn't take it. because it's taken them about eight months to come out with a vaccine but then there's stuff like cancer, where is the cure and stuff for that? so, not really, no. i wouldn't, i wouldn't, no. facebook, which also owns whatsapp and instagram, has removed a number of the pages and posts that we highlighted to them. both facebook and twitter say that they remove harmful misinformation, including about vaccines, and actively point people towards credible information. the problem is, it's not working. social media sites have acted far too late in dealing
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with this kind of issue. they definitely have laid back and watched as enormous communities of disinformation perpetrators have grown into influencers on their sites and that's affecting real world health and safety. government legislation to control harmful content online has been delayed and it's unlikely to come into effect before 2022. the 0nline harms bill has repeatedly been delayed. should it not have been introduced earlier to help combat the spread of anti—vax falsehoods online? we've made a lot of progress with it. but in the meantime, i am actively working with social media companies. i'm meeting with them regularly to push them to take further steps. understanding how widely disinformation is shared can be difficult, particularly on encrypted
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messaging apps like whatsapp. claims that the vaccines contain meat products caused panic within some religious groups. harrow, north london, has a large asian community. the whatsapps and video messages were coming through from every angle. lots of things were coming in, like there's embryo, foetus, orsomething, or pork inside. the vaccine contains no meat products or material derived from foetal cells. but the misleading messages had their effect on sarita and herfamily. i was very adamant not to have it. i was very scared. i didn't know what was going on and nobody could tell me that, oh, there won't be any effects of it, so, yes. both my kids and myself, we had decided not to have it.
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it's worrying doctors, like ameet bakhai, who is a trusted figure in his local community, but he's surprised how hard he's having to work to overcome vaccine hesitancy. it's almost as if we're fighting two pandemics. the first pandemic is the viral pandemic, the second pandemic is the misinformation. and we see them at the mercy of their whatsapps. they have really powerful messages in them that people have died after the vaccine, the first doses of vaccine or people have rushed vaccines, or vaccines have actually got animal products or microchips or they're going to cause you cancer, they're going to alter your dna, you're not going to be recognisable. there's no scientific evidence to support any of this. and dr bakhai is fighting back. every month you wait, you're increasing your risk of getting covid—19. and that's absolutely critical. answering questions online from local residents. if people don't have access
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to professionals that can truly speak the uncertainties with confidence, that's when mistrust really embeds in. we're worried about particularly the first generation above 75, 80 that are actually being invited for vaccines, their ability to read english or to understand websites, theyjust get lost, they don't know where to turn. do you think that more could have been done to tackle the issue of hesitancy in black and asian communities, and also in younger communities before this point? naturally, we didn't have the time maybe to do the sort of preliminary work that we do when we're introducing vaccines. and i think it's fair to say that we didn't have time to do all those things as well as we would normally do, but we're very much playing catch—up now. local authorities are already on the case. when the ask the experts video began circulating in black and asian communities in westminster, the city council stepped in. i was really concerned by that video.
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it's really playing on people's fears and the fact that they are targeting it at those communities will mean that there will be people who will die as a result of not having the vaccine. according to the survey for panorama, 52% of those who responded from an ethnic minority are worried they can't trust official information on the vaccine. once again, though, most say they want the jab. i've made it at last, thank you very much. lord woolley was invited by westminster council to take part in zoom sessions to encourage people to take the vaccine. now we have a number of vaccines that are coming to the doctor's surgeries and hospitals and yet there is a great hesitancy amongst many in our communities. we need to save people's lives. we need to ensure that people get the facts.
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the vast majority are hesitant, are cautious but, you know, that's a realfear, that's a legitimate fear. then there are outside influences seeking to exacerbate that with lies, myths and misinformation. that makes our situation ten times worse. back to our experiment. and eight people with a range of concerns about the vaccine who agreed to watch the video that's causing so much alarm. do i believe that covid—i9 exists? absolutely not. has it put any of our volunteers off? having watched that video, where are you now in your thinking? it was like a propaganda video. it's totally inappropriate for somebody who might be easily influenced. but half said the video had raised more queries
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for them about the vaccine. we asked epidemiologist professor liam smeeth, who was monitoring the experiment, to answer any of the group's questions. i it was stated in the video thati animal trials had been skipped. hm. is that true? no, it's definitely not true. and i've seen the data from the animal trials and the normal animals trials were done. there's a lot of sort of "specialists", as it were, saying that it's not safe and will affect your fertility. there's nothing in any kind of mechanisms or biology to think how these vaccines would influence fertility. the other thing is the question - about whether it affects your dna. i can guarantee this vaccine doesn't affect your dna. now they know more of the facts, are they reassured? yes, i will have the vaccine. i will take it, right, - even though i have some hesitations, i will. so, i'm quite pleased that we talked. - good. i'm glad to hear it.
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i feel very slightly more reassured. but i do still feel a little bit like, i still query and i question about the long—term effects of it. ifanything, i'm more inclined - to take the vaccine because seeing these anti—vaxxers being so dramatic — "oh, the virus doesn't exist, - it's all a conspiracy," sort of thing, ijust, i it pushes me to be more inclined to believe the pro—vaxxers. - a little bit of caution is understandable but you can be reasonably reassured that the benefits definitely outweigh the risks. after talking to professor smeeth, all those who took part in the experiment felt more confident about the vaccine. he believes any doctor or professional promoting false claims should face disciplinary action. i would certainly be very pro them being investigated and the evidence of harm being looked at properly and them being stopped from doing that and stopped from using their title and stopped from doing that to individual patients.
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i've taken a closer look at some of the people in the video. i am kate shemirani, natural nurse in the toxic world... kate shemirani is a nurse who used to work in the nhs. she's also an anti—vax protestor. this is all a lie, this covid—i9! she had tens of thousands of followers across her youtube, twitter and instagram accounts, until they were all suspended. no vaccine ever proven effective! that new one has been rushed through. why? because they want to kill you. it's going to make you sterile! are you going take it? crowd: no! when i met kate shemirani, she told me she stood by her claims that the pandemic is not real and the vaccine is unsafe. an 82—year—old emailed me and she'd seen the video that you feature in. and she was thinking she might not have it anymore. what would you say to rosemary? i'd say "fantastic. you've made the right decision. this vaccine has to be halted, because it's so dangerous." kate shemirani was suspended last
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june for 18 months by the nursing and midwifery council. she's under investigation after sharing harmful conspiracies about the virus. dr vernon coleman is also in the video. the whole covid—19 scam is the greatest hoax in history. similar to a newspaper article he wrote in 1989 saying that aids was the "hoax of the century, the crisis that never was." here's dr rashid buttar. he was reprimanded by the american medical board in 2010 for using untested treatments on four cancer patients. and surgeon mohammad adil. he's being investigated by the uk's general medical council after sharing social media videos claiming covid—i9 is a hoax. he's suspended for 12 months.
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panorama wrote to all 33 people in the video. ii responded. four defended the video's contents. five said if we referred to them as "anti—vaccine", they'd take legal action. one made no comment. another acknowledged the virus is real and causes diseases and deaths, but says the measures to manage the pandemic are disproportionate. oracle films, who produced the video, chose not to comment on its contents when we invited them to. people really should be ashamed of themselves if they are putting off vulnerable people from taking the vaccine that can save their lives. it's as simple as that. meanwhile, oracle's paypal account, used to receive donations, was removed after we presented our findings to paypal. as the vaccine rollout continues
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apace, what happened to some of the people i met during my investigation? protestorjoanna — because of herjob as a carer — has now had the vaccine. helen is also having the vaccine. she feels she has a responsibility to those she might work with in future. sarita, after speaking to a doctor she trusts, is planning to have the jab. her family have now had theirs. and rosemary has made up her mind after we told her the truth about the video. how are you feeling about having the vaccine today? absolutely so pleased, i can't even say. relieved, really relieved. i think we both are really looking forward to having having it done. all done. thank you.
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hello. it's been a fine day today in scotland and northern ireland. it will be again tomorrow. whereas there is a weather front in parts of england and wales, which will continue to bring some rain, as it will through the evening and overnight. northern england, wales, the west midlands and the south—west in particular. eastern parts of england staying dry. a mild night across england and wales, but temperatures close to freezing in the coldest parts of scotland and northern ireland under largely clear skies. and bar the odd shower approaching north—west scotland tomorrow, most here will again have a fine day. the weather system in england and wales nudges a bit further east away from wales, northern and western parts of england as it brightens up a bit, but increasingly light and patchy rain edging back towards east anglia and the south—east of england
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on another mild day. some very wet weather, though, to come in as we go into tuesday. this is the weather system approaching from the west, especially to northern ireland, into scotland, where there is a risk of flooding too, affecting wales and western parts of england, whereas the eastern side of england stays dry and becomes very mild.
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this is bbc news. the headlines at 5: a pledge that every adult in the uk will be offered their first dose of coronavirus vaccine by the end ofjuly — a month ahead of schedule. it's because of the success of the vaccine roll—out that we're able to do that and that will have an impact on how quickly we'll all be able to return to normal, which is obviously what everyone wants to see. borisjohnson meets ministers and scientific advisers to put the final touches to plans to bring england out of lockdown. the dj jo whiley says it "couldn't be crueller" that her sister, who has learning difficulties and diabetes, was offered the vaccine after she was already "fighting for her life" with covid. the medical professionals, who are doing an amazing job,
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just aren't equipped, because it's all so new. they don't know how people with a learning disability

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