virtual ceremony split between los angeles and new york. the netflix drama the crown — about the british royal family won the best tv drama series, while sacha baron cohen won best comedy actor for borat subsequent moviefilm. a violent crackdown by troops in myanmar has left at least 18 people dead and 30 injured in protests against the military. the united nations has condemned the use of lethal force against peaceful protesters after the bloodiest day of clashes since military leaders seized power four weeks ago. and donald trump's given his first speech since leaving the white house. mr trump told a conference of conservative supporters in florida that the journey, begun four years ago when he became president, was �*farfrom over�*, but also rejected reports that he would be forming a new political party. now on bbc news, it's hardtalk.

welcome to hardtalk — i'm stephen sackur. what is the chinese government doing to the muslim uyghur population of xinjiang province? well, a combination of personal testimony, leaked documents and satellite imagery points to a systematic policy of repression so far—reaching, us government officials have called it genocide. my guest isjewher ilham — a young uyghur woman whose father, a uyghur academic, has been imprisoned for seven years. the fate of the uyghurs has become a geopolitical issue — but is anything going to change?

jewher ilham, in the united states, welcome to hardtalk. i want to begin by taking you back eight years. it was eight years ago that you and your father went to beijing airport, preparing to fly to the united states. your dad was detained by the authorities — he could not fly. you had to fly on your own, and you have not seen your father since. so, can i begin by asking you, what do you know of your father's situation today? the last time i saw my father was eight years ago, and the last time i heard his voice was seven years ago. after we were separated at the airport, my father was arrested for a few days. he was allowed to return home, and he started his house arrest time for 11 months. then he was officially arrested again, and then he was put under charge

for a life sentence. since then, i haven't heard a word from him. i do not know what is his current health condition, if he's still held in the same prison as he was first announced, and nobody has seen him since 2017. we do not know if he's even alive. you don't know if he's alive. so, there's been no contact, whatsoever, for, what, four years? no contact with a lawyer, no contact with his wife, your stepmother, nobody at all? right. my family was trying to reach out to the police in the uyghur region, but the requests were rejected and no family visits were allowed. since 2017, we have heard no news of him.

but before 2017, what i know of his condition was he lost over a0 pounds. he was denied food twice, each time was for ten days. he was shackled both around his ankles and around his wrists. i am very concerned with his current condition. i do not know why exactly he was banned from family visits. even when he was allowed to be visited, he was allowed to be visited only every three months. even though according to the chinese law, every political prisoner was supposed to be allowed to be visited every month — and for my family's case, it was every three months. i feel, even at this distance, the degree of upset that you are going through. ijust wonder how hard you have to think before speaking to people like me about the situation. because we know that difficulties can be made, not just for the prisoner in any situation like this, but also for the prisoner's family. you have family, of course,

still living inside china. in fact, every member of my family, except me, still remain in china, and... one of my most frequent nightmares is that my speaking out would affect my family in a very negative way, which would make them suffer even worse than now. even though i have been speaking up for my father's case since seven years ago, until now, but i am still... every moment, i am afraid. i am worried for my stepmother, for my brothers, for my cousins — for their safety. my cousin is also in prison right now. she was sentenced for ten years for having my father's photo in her cellphone. she was stopped at one of the checkpoints on the street on her way to the shopping mall. and i'm afraid more and more

family members of mine would be treated the same. with my stepmother and my two brothers, they were monitored closely for over six months. there were policemen, four to six policemen, even sleeping outside of our apartment door for up to six months, and following them to everywhere they go and preventing them from meeting with others. it had affected my two little brothers tremendously in a very negative way, and i am very concerned for them until now — every single day, every morning when i wake up. i want to ask you about your father's trial, his case, because the chinese authorities were very clear. they said he had been fomenting and encouraging separatism, which, of course, under the chinese law is a very serious crime. they even presented some evidence.

i know it was a closed—door trial, but apparently evidence was presented, including a video of a lecture he delivered at the university, in which he said that xinjiang belongs to the uyghurs, not to the han chinese. it seemed to be an ethnic point he was making. what do you think of the case that was presented and the conviction? first of all, i have seen that video. all the video clips that i have seen were cut from the beginning and cut... it was taken out of the context. that's first. second, my father had never incited separatism. according to, well, chinese own language, the region is called xinjiang uyghur autonomous region. so, technically, it does belong to the uyghurs. well, from the name.

and i don't see anything wrong with this sentence. second of all, the chinese government has been accusing my father of being a separatist, someone who is an extremist, and someone who is advocating for violence — and that's all false accusations. what my father has been trying to do for the past decades, and throughout his research and his work, was to try to help. he was trying to promote peaceful dialogue between the han chinese and the uyghurs. if i may, jewher. you're a young woman, obviously, now in your mid—20s — but you left china when you were, i believe, 18. yes. but the truth is that the chinese government says that from the turn of the century there was an increasing problem in xinjiang, a problem of separatism, which involved people committed to violence

to create a separatist uyghur muslim nation. they call them terrorists. they cited particular instances — rioting in 2009 which left many han chinese dead. they referred to other violent attacks which caused more death in the years since then. would you acknowledge that when china talks of a separatist threat in xinjiang, there is something real there? indeed, there have been sporadic instances of violence, and it is true there has been a history of tension. it is true there also has been a result of this. but what i think is, if you subject people to violent repression over a period of many, many years, they will ultimately fight back. and it's very unfortunate... unfortunately, some would choose to do that with violence. not that i support such ways. but you can only oppress people for so long without people fighting back — and, unfortunately, those incidents of violence were a reaction to

systematic repression. but that doesn't merit what we are seeing now, of course, with what is happening in the uyghur region. i remember my father once said that the best thing would be for the authorities to take a step back and examine what drives people to such desperation in the first place. over the past three years, there has been a mounting pile of evidence showing the scale of systematic repression inside xinjiang. we have seen, not least, the satellite imagery of the detention camps. we've heard testimony from people who've managed to escape or leave those camps, telling us what happens inside. abusive behaviours, including — we learned in the last few weeks — systematic allegations of sexual abuse and rape against women inside some of those camps.

it is, though, difficult to be entirely sure that some of the evidence is verifiable. a lot of it does come down to personal testimony. you are a very long way from xinjiang — of necessity — right now, so how can you be sure that the evidence that crosses your computer and your desk is entirely accurate? indeed, there's no way, exact way, for me to verify the source completely. in fact, it's the chinese government that is making this process of verification so hard, since having access to the uyghur region is so much more difficult compared to before.

but i can speak to my personal experience, and to that of my family — which is that i know for a fact that the chinese government is trying to cover it up or let it fade away from people's attention. and i know these abuses are happening, because my father was sentenced to life in prison, my cousin is sentenced for ten years, and i have otherfamily relatives who have been interned and arrested. i do know people close to me who have their family members locked up for ridiculous reasons. and, secondly, more broadly, you should know that the reports of abuses are, as you mentioned, based on highly credible accounts of refugees, as well as from people who are still in the region. also, the fact that these egregious human rights abuses is recognised across the world. if i may, jewher. of course, you have the experience from inside your own family — but yourfather was, in some ways, rather special in that he was incredibly well—connected. he ran the uyghur 0nline

and the uyghur biz websites. he was very socially active. he was a human rights campaigner. he had a particular platform, voice and position in society. but when the chinese government responds to these wider claims about the detention camps, they call them vocational and re—education camps. and i'm going to quote you a couple of important voices in china. first of all, the chinese ambassador to the us. back in 2018, when many reports were emerging of these camps, he said, "we are simply trying to re—educate people, trying to turn them into normal persons who can go back to normal life." and president xijinping, in september 2020, said... justifying the "education effort" as he called it in xinjiang, he said, "all ethnic groups need a correct perspective on the country, history and nationality." would you accept that

china has a right to tell the people of xinjiang, you know, about the country's culture, try to persuade them to notjust use the uyghur language, but use the language of the entire nation, and to question, perhaps, some of the more extreme religious views that some people might have inside xinjiang? i personally believe nobody is able, or should be allowed to, brainwash others or try to change other people's views by force. what makes every human being unique is that we have our own culture, our own language, our own system, our own thinkings. i also believe what my father used to tell me — that a normal society allows

more than one voice. what the chinese government has been trying to do throughout the region is to shut everyone up, and then force people to think in the exact same way — which favours the chinese government's ideologies. and i think that is not very healthy, and i do not support this. what is your impression of what is happening to the population of the uyghur areas of xinjiang right now? because your own father wrote extensively about the degree to which han chinese were being encouraged to migrate and takejobs inside those areas. and we also know that many thousands of uyghurs have been forcibly required to go and do factory work outside their own region. so, has the demographics of the region fundamentally changed? unfortunately, i can't answer this question directly, because i don't live in the region. i haven't been back for over

nine or ten years, so far. but my assumption, based on my own assumption, i am very concerned with what it is like in the whole uyghur region. i was able to communicate with certain members of my family in the uyghur region, and it was... 0ur conversation was completely absurd. it was very different from in the past. you are not allowed to say, "as—salaam aleikum," which is a normal muslim greeting. i do not believe this incites islamic extremism. you do not say, "allah'a emanet," which is, "allah wish you peace." you have to say, "xi jinping wish you peace," or, "xi jinping wish you well." this is... when the government says that they are trying to help the uyghurs to become normal people, but i feel like, in this case, uyghurs are being...

..are living in a very abnormal way. i am very concerned, and i'm afraid that the newer generations will lose our roots, our lineage, our connection to our origins and our roots, our language and our culture. i am very concerned for that. let me go back to the personal forjust a moment. we know that china has built this extraordinary surveillance machinery across the country, frankly, but particularly focused in xinjiang. they really monitor people very closely. we also know they seem to have the capacity to monitor people of interest outside the country, too. and it seems some people connected to uyghur groups in exile have received threats, not least that their family members back inside china may suffer if they continue to use their voices. do you believe you're being surveilled, and have you received threats?

i personally have never received threats from any chinese individuals. i do constantly receive criticism or very nasty language. i read nasty languages in my personal social media accounts, and i have gotten used to that. i have learned the worst languages ever because of them. what i do know, i am definitely surveilled. i'm not sure about the new phone, but with my previous phone, i know it was monitored. my conversations with others were monitored. because after sharing information of myself attending a uyghur couple's wedding, a week later, this uyghur couple, a young newlywed couple, was contacted by someone in the uyghur region and said they should not be inviting me to their wedding. growing up, we had bugging devices in my living room in beijing. growing up, i know my father's

phone was constantly monitored. growing up, i knew that this type of surveillance, it's just glued to me. i guess, there's very little doubt... there's no doubt that the chinese government is well aware of your current activities. after graduating, you've devoted a lot of your time to activism, raising awareness about what is happening to the uyghur people, also particularly focusing on workers�* rights, because i know you're very involved in efforts to alert the world to the use of forced labour in supply chains involving some of the biggest corporate brands in the western world. so, let us talk about the impact that your campaign is having. are you satisfied or dissatisfied with the degree to which the outside world is waking up and responding to what's happening in xinjiang? i have to say, there has been growing momentum, but...

i'm sorry, i'm a greedy person — i do not think it's enough. i don't think it's enough. i will continue not being satisfied until every single innocent uyghur has been released. and i do urge governments around the world... brands and corporates around the world can, you know, be held accountable and be responsible and enforce measures to help fix this forced labour issue. it is not something that should be allowed in this 21st century. top us officials — mike pompeo, the outgoing secretary of state under donald trump, and now the incoming secretary of state, the new secretary of state, tony blinken — have both called what is happening to the uyghur people in xinjiang as genocide — they've used that word. we see that sanctions have been placed on some senior chinese officials in connection with what is happening in xinjiang by the us government.

the uk government is talking about ensuring that companies are punished if they use supply chains which appear to involve slave labour. so, things are happening — but you believe they're not enough, do you? yes, because uyghurs are still suffering. there's hundreds of thousands of uyghurs still locked up, still working in factories, forced to work in factories, or having to be forced to "voluntarily" work in factories. and that is why i do not think it's enough. i think more and more governments around the world should be involved and help china. it's not force china, but i do think the world needs to help china realise its own mistakes and help it... but, jewher, if i may. isn't the point here that china's economy is one of the two most powerful in the world, and through the course of the century it's going to become the world's most powerful economy. if you look, for example, in europe, you get a lot

of rhetorical support for the cause of uyghur human rights from governments in europe, but then they go and sign a major investment deal with the beijing government. because — driven by germany more than any other country — the argument is that they need to deepen the economic ties with china. that is a pragmatism. it's a reality that your campaign is never going to overcome, is it? i do know that it is difficult, and i am not asking to boycott china entirely. that is not what i'm asking. i've never asked that either. and i have no problem with any countries being powerful economically, orany ways, in the world. i'm not against that. but what i am against is the systematic repression that is taking place in the uyghur region, and i do think every government in the world has the responsibility to hold the chinese government accountable on this specific

matter. i am positive because i have seen positive changes. there are brands and corporates that have responded positively. with myjob, i am a part of the coalition to end uyghur forced labour. the coalition has come up with a call to action, which is asking the brands to exit the uyghur region. it was endorsed by over 365 organisations around the globe. it's not only us—based. and there have been brands that have signed the call to action, have agreed to follow up to make the commitments, and chose to be ethical. and that is why i am hopeful. it's going to be a long fight. it is going to be very difficult, but i do think it is feasible. a final thought, jewher. i was very struck by the words of one chinese human rights activist after your father was convicted and sentenced in 2014. he was described by this activist as the "uyghur mandela".

now, of course, nelson mandela spent all of those decades in prison, but ultimately he got out, and he triumphed and his political vision was made reality. do you believe your father, ultimately, can triumph in that way, and that his vision of the uyghur community being given more autonomy, more of a voice, able to use their own language within a sovereign china, do you think that is achievable with the communist party of china the way it is? call me naive, but i am a very positive person. my father had raised me this way. i am always very hopeful with. .. if i can't see this, maybe my children will see it, maybe my grandchildren will see it. but i do hope that day will come, and i do hope my father doesn't have to spend decades and decades in the prison. i do hope he can release today, tomorrow or any time soon. and i am hopeful — i do believe this day will come. and i do hope the chinese government can realise

its own mistakes soon, and make that day come sooner. jewher ilham, it's been a pleasure having you on hardtalk. thank you very much indeed. thank you very much. hello there. we've got a quiet few days of weather coming up, some sunshine to come, some frosty mornings, a bit of fog around as well, but there's a tendency for the weather to turn a bit cloudier over the next few days and certainly a lot cooler by the end of the week as well. right now, we're seeing some low cloud. some mist and fog patches move in across east anglia. they will continue to spread westwards over the next few hours, into the midlands, central and eastern

parts of wales. could be a few fog patches elsewhere. where we keep the clear skies, though, it's going to be cold with some frost, temperatures getting down to about —3 celsius in the very coldest spots, so could be a grey start for quite a few of you but there will be some cloud in scotland probably keeping the worst of the fog at bay here. that cloud will thin and break, with some spells of sunshine coming through later on. and actually, northern ireland should have a decent day too. it's probably across parts of east anglia, the midlands, central and eastern areas of wales where the low cloud and fog is most likely to linger. and where that happens, well, temperatures might only reach 7 degrees. maybe that's even a bit generous. but for most of the uk, i think we'll see some sunshine and temperatures pushing on into double figures. for tuesday, same area of high pressure still involved in the weather forecast, but we do have a little trough moving up from the south—west. i think for many, it will be a rather grey start to the day on tuesday, with some mist and fog patches, some low cloud as well. there will be some sunshine

to come through, particularly across scotland and into north—west england, western parts of wales probably doing quite well as well, but later in the afternoon, we'll start to see that trough thicken the cloud up across the southwest, threatening some patches of rain. that rain could become a little bit more extensive as we head towards wednesday. that is across parts of southern wales and across southern counties of england. could see a little bit of rain just about anywhere. and around some of these eastern coasts, i reckon it's probably going to be quite grey, with the threat of a few patches of drizzle coming in from the north sea from time to time. best of any sunshine more likely across northwestern areas. again, where it stays rather cloudy and grey, it'll be cool — 5—6 degrees celsius in the south, still relatively mild. that is until thursday and friday, when this area of high—pressure starts to build in. we send northerly winds southwards down the north sea, and that ultimately will bring much cooler weather to all parts of the uk. so towards the end of the week, quite a bit of cloud on thursday, temperatures around 6—8 celsius. friday, probably a little bit brighter, a little bit more sunshine.

this is bbc news, i'm sally bundock with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. a double win for nomadland at hollywood's virtual golden globes. the film wins best drama film and chinese—born chloe zhao wins best director. and netflix drama the crown, about the british royal family, wins the best tv drama series, with best actor awards for emma currin and josh 0'connor. explosions a violent crackdown by troops in myanmar — at least 18 people are killed in protests against the military coup.